JD and Abbie: Captured Before the Rapture

[Westiepeach]

41 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

If that's the case, then call her 'Abigail; be done with it.  However, it is certainly possible that her name is actually Abbie.

In grade school, I had a friend named Liddie, an old family name.  One of the nuns insisted that this could not possibly be her real name and insisted on referring to her as Lydia and would only accept work from her with that first name.  I thought it was awful then and haven't changed my mind with time.  If Carlin is such a 'sweet friend' of Abbie's, then she should get her name right.

I cannot imagine Carlin letting it slide if someone wrote her name as Karlin or her baby as Leila.

I have a friend whose name is Melissa. She said in her Catholic grade school she was not acknowledged because there was not a saint named Melissa. She was basically ignored.

ETA: She was ignored by the nuns.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Westiepeach

[doodlebug]

38 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

I have a friend whose name is Melissa. She said in her Catholic grade school she was not acknowledged because there was not a saint named Melissa. She was basically ignored.

ETA: She was ignored by the nuns.

Getting ignored by nuns is not the worst thing that could happen, IMO.  I know someone who named their kid Ronald Jr. and got the same sort of flak from the priest who baptized the baby, even though Dad was a lifelong Catholic and had been baptized with the very same name.  I believe the middle name saved the day.

Abbie and JD and Gracie look to be such a tight, happy family, good for them.

[floridamom]

JD took Abbie to an air show for HER birthday? Wow, what a great guy. This activity was plainly for him. We all know it's John David who is in to flying. Abbie didn't know or care much about it before she was involved with him. He should have done something special for HER; something she enjoys. I have a suspicion it's a "Jeremy love books; so I love books" thing with her...I hope not. 

[MsJamieDornan]

36 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Abbie didn't know or care much about it before she was involved with him.

The poor girl had to have her wedding in a darn airplane hanger.

[GeeGolly]

Abbie might have been impressed with JD and 'his' plane. I can see how it might be easy to get got up in the 'glamour' of flying and fully embrace it.

I realize they're not flying in private jets, but they are flying in a private plane. To Abbie it may be fun and kind of cool. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

17 hours ago, Normades said:

Okay, I admit this is a pet peeve of mine because it happens with my name as well, but seriously, couldn't Carlin look at the post and see that Abbie spells her name A-B-B-I-E and not A-B-B-Y?  Stop being so lazy. 

Pet peeve of mine as well, especially since so many people (including many of my cousins) misspell my name by either doubling a letter in the middle, or starting it with an E or a Y, when it's actually spelled with an I.

I can't even imagine how one could respond to something which has the person's name right there, and still misspell it.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Abbie might have been impressed with JD and 'his' plane. I can see how it might be easy to get got up in the 'glamour' of flying and fully embrace it.

I realize they're not flying in private jets, but they are flying in a private plane. To Abbie it may be fun and kind of cool. 

I'm sure she is caught up in it. Flying, no matter the vehicle, is cool. Hard to deny that. 

Nevertheless, to make flying the center of life was his choice in the first place, not hers.

And we're talking about incredibly slanted, bigoted patriarchal values passed down through generations here, likely in both families.

Under those patriarchal values, it's always the guy whose preferences prevail in a case like this. And always the female who goes along because she loves him. And who goes along silently and without even any thought that she might prefer some different kind of celebration for HER birthday and has just as much right as he does to have her preferences rule what they do sometimes. 

This may seem cute and benign in an individual case. "Oooh, Abbs just loves that flyin' that big manly JD does! Isn't that sweet for their marriage!" 

But what it produces on the larger scale is a whole system -- and their evangelical community is a system -- that by this means skews virtually every significant decision in the males' favor and effectively represses females' ability to view their own preferences as options that can and should compete on equal footing for considerations with the mens' preferences. 

The oft-heard idea that actually the women run things behind the scenes is bullshit in terms of the overall system, which is the big thing that really rules everybody's life behind the scenes.

Jessa may be the pushy person in her marriage who generally runs the household.

Nevertheless, she -- and Ivy --  live in a world where a huge huge proportion of the most important and valued opportunities that exist for the males simply do not exist for them. Suppose Ivy -- or Jessa!--  decides she'd like to work for money outside the home so they can afford to remodel and create some extra bedrooms? Suppose Ivy -- or Jessa -- feels the call to attend seminary and preach the gospel to others as Bin (!!!!) does.

The pattern their world follows has made those things virtually unthinkable.....

And when paths in life are simply not open to you based on a rigid, bigoted, stereotyped view of your sex (or color, or income level, or national origin, or whatever trait irrelevant to the issue at hand this denial-of-opportunity is based on), then in that system you are lesser. You are deprived of choice and of power, and because of that you are inevitably seen as of lesser value in your world than the people who are allowed that power and those choices. And that's true despite any protestations anybody may make to the contrary. 

This is the attitude that skews a whole society toward one group. And that's ultimately bad for everybody because the group (both groups, actually) is/are deprived of individual freedom of choice overall and society at large is deprived of the full input of an entire sex. 

Let's just think again of private airplanes... While even as a passenger, flying in small crafts can be exciting and fun, of course, it's way more fun -- and a million times more empowering -- to be the pilot rather than hubbies' and brothers' perpetual passenger.....

But is it possible that, in this gang, the females have both an internal bar and a likely external bar against that, both put in place by the male-dominant system they live in?

Joy, the tomboy, experimented a bit with learning to pilot, I seem to remember. But then she backed off it, saying something about how it wasn't for her, I think. Why? Maybe that decision wasn't the male-dominant system making her feel less fully competent and more fearful than the males....But maybe it was.....

These are people living in a world that fully intends to be very patriarchal. So my inclination is to not let them off the hook for decisions, like "Abbie's Birthday Trip," that when looked at individually appear kind of benign! 😁

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Churchhoney

[SMama]

I thought I read here or on the other forum that Abbie was taking flying lessons. Anyone remember this? 

[Churchhoney]

2 minutes ago, SMama said:

I thought I read here or on the other forum that Abbie was taking flying lessons. Anyone remember this? 

Now that you mention it, I have a vague memory of that too. Hoping that it's true!

I was very disappointed when Joy quickly backed out of pilot training....

[farmgal4]

On 4/17/2021 at 6:03 PM, ginger90 said:

I think Abbie is so cute!

[SMama]

Just now, Churchhoney said:

Now that you mention it, I have a vague memory of that too. Hoping that it's true!

I was very disappointed when Joy quickly backed out of pilot training....

I don’t think Joy ever intended to become a pilot. Just another story line for their boring show. IIRC she went up with JD and they flew over the TTH. At a point JD had her take control for a few. Heck, Travis did the same with a Bates guy. 
 

FWIW, emergencies happen and it’s a smart idea to know how to fly those tin cans. 

[Normades]

18 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I was very disappointed when Joy quickly backed out of pilot training....

Personally, I don't think the world needs dimbulb Joy at the controls of an aircraft. YMMV. 

I don't see a problem with Abbie going to the air show.  She seems to embrace flying and looks like she enjoys it.  I'm sure they like getting Gracie excited about their interests, too.  Lots of couples expose each other to new hobbies/ideas.  My boyfriend like flying, too and I would def go to an air show, even on my birthday.  I like theater and museums.  He enjoys those with me.  The air show would make more exciting pictures than a museum.  Since Abbie has shown some agency in her life, I don't worry about her giving in to all of JD's interests.  They seem to have a good partnership.  Now if it were one of the other girls (Kendra, Joy, Anna), I can see the point of them being overridden on their interests. 

[MsJamieDornan]

55 minutes ago, SMama said:

I thought I read here or on the other forum that Abbie was taking flying lessons. Anyone remember this? 

I think you're right.

[DangerousMinds]

5 hours ago, Normades said:

Personally, I don't think the world needs dimbulb Joy at the controls of an aircraft. YMMV. 

I don't see a problem with Abbie going to the air show.  She seems to embrace flying and looks like she enjoys it.  I'm sure they like getting Gracie excited about their interests, too.  Lots of couples expose each other to new hobbies/ideas.  My boyfriend like flying, too and I would def go to an air show, even on my birthday.  I like theater and museums.  He enjoys those with me.  The air show would make more exciting pictures than a museum.  Since Abbie has shown some agency in her life, I don't worry about her giving in to all of JD's interests.  They seem to have a good partnership.  Now if it were one of the other girls (Kendra, Joy, Anna), I can see the point of them being overridden on their interests. 

But has Abbie ever been shown to have ANY of her own interests? Other than nursing, which she did seem to enjoy. Does she volunteer anywhere with the elderly? I seem to remember she worked with that population and enjoyed it .

Edited April 20, 2021 by DangerousMinds

[Boston]

20 hours ago, doodlebug said:

If that's the case, then call her 'Abigail; be done with it.  However, it is certainly possible that her name is actually Abbie.

In grade school, I had a friend named Liddie, an old family name.  One of the nuns insisted that this could not possibly be her real name and insisted on referring to her as Lydia and would only accept work from her with that first name.  I thought it was awful then and haven't changed my mind with time.  If Carlin is such a 'sweet friend' of Abbie's, then she should get her name right.

I cannot imagine Carlin letting it slide if someone wrote her name as Karlin or her baby as Leila.

Those dang nuns - I assume (maybe wrongly) this was a Catholic school.. No correcting them. (yes, I went to Catholic school for 8 years - got a great education - but alot of stress/yelling.. oh and my brother got a physical beating (the class clown) monthly til my mom went down and threw down)

[emmawoodhouse]

Ironically, they flew commercial to the airshow. 😀

[BigBingerBro]

3 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Ironically, they flew commercial to the airshow. 😀

Perhaps Duggar Aviation has been grounded

[awaken]

13 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm sure she is caught up in it. Flying, no matter the vehicle, is cool. Hard to deny that. 

Nevertheless, to make flying the center of life was his choice in the first place, not hers.

And we're talking about incredibly slanted, bigoted patriarchal values passed down through generations here, likely in both families.

Under those patriarchal values, it's always the guy whose preferences prevail in a case like this. And always the female who goes along because she loves him. And who goes along silently and without even any thought that she might prefer some different kind of celebration for HER birthday and has just as much right as he does to have her preferences rule what they do sometimes. 

This may seem cute and benign in an individual case. "Oooh, Abbs just loves that flyin' that big manly JD does! Isn't that sweet for their marriage!" 

But what it produces on the larger scale is a whole system -- and their evangelical community is a system -- that by this means skews virtually every significant decision in the males' favor and effectively represses females' ability to view their own preferences as options that can and should compete on equal footing for considerations with the mens' preferences. 

The oft-heard idea that actually the women run things behind the scenes is bullshit in terms of the overall system, which is the big thing that really rules everybody's life behind the scenes.

Jessa may be the pushy person in her marriage who generally runs the household.

Nevertheless, she -- and Ivy --  live in a world where a huge huge proportion of the most important and valued opportunities that exist for the males simply do not exist for them. Suppose Ivy -- or Jessa!--  decides she'd like to work for money outside the home so they can afford to remodel and create some extra bedrooms? Suppose Ivy -- or Jessa -- feels the call to attend seminary and preach the gospel to others as Bin (!!!!) does.

The pattern their world follows has made those things virtually unthinkable.....

And when paths in life are simply not open to you based on a rigid, bigoted, stereotyped view of your sex (or color, or income level, or national origin, or whatever trait irrelevant to the issue at hand this denial-of-opportunity is based on), then in that system you are lesser. You are deprived of choice and of power, and because of that you are inevitably seen as of lesser value in your world than the people who are allowed that power and those choices. And that's true despite any protestations anybody may make to the contrary. 

This is the attitude that skews a whole society toward one group. And that's ultimately bad for everybody because the group (both groups, actually) is/are deprived of individual freedom of choice overall and society at large is deprived of the full input of an entire sex. 

Let's just think again of private airplanes... While even as a passenger, flying in small crafts can be exciting and fun, of course, it's way more fun -- and a million times more empowering -- to be the pilot rather than hubbies' and brothers' perpetual passenger.....

But is it possible that, in this gang, the females have both an internal bar and a likely external bar against that, both put in place by the male-dominant system they live in?

Joy, the tomboy, experimented a bit with learning to pilot, I seem to remember. But then she backed off it, saying something about how it wasn't for her, I think. Why? Maybe that decision wasn't the male-dominant system making her feel less fully competent and more fearful than the males....But maybe it was.....

These are people living in a world that fully intends to be very patriarchal. So my inclination is to not let them off the hook for decisions, like "Abbie's Birthday Trip," that when looked at individually appear kind of benign! 😁

 

 

Hear, hear!  👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 As always, you knocked it out of the park with your astute observations, @Churchhoney!

[Churchhoney]

On 4/20/2021 at 10:24 PM, awaken said:

Hear, hear!  👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 As always, you knocked it out of the park with your astute observations, @Churchhoney!

Thanks. Sometimes I'm probably just ranting, though! 😁

Edited April 23, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Teriacky]

Abby probably wouldn’t be doing volunteer work with the elderly folks during the pandemic. However, I can think of nothing better to cheer up the old folks than showing up with that adorable baby. 

[marypat57]

@doodlebug

I had to laugh when you told the story of the nun who insisted on calling Liddie by the name of Lydia.  I remember that all the boys in elementary school were William, Thomas, Anthony, Joseph and never Billy, Tommy, Tony or Joey.  The girls were Elizabeth, Patricia, Kathleen, Theresa and not Liz, Beth, Patty, Kathy or Terry.  
This stopped in high school, when even the nuns used whatever name you preferred.  It was a little strange, because some of the nuns from my elementary school were transferred to my high school, which was a few blocks away. During the time my high school was being built, you could watch the workers lift the steel girders into place from some of the elementary school windows..

[Temperance]

10 minutes ago, marypat57 said:

@doodlebug

I had to laugh when you told the story of the nun who insisted on calling Liddie by the name of Lydia.  I remember that all the boys in elementary school were William, Thomas, Anthony, Joseph and never Billy, Tommy, Tony or Joey.  The girls were Elizabeth, Patricia, Kathleen, Theresa and not Liz, Beth, Patty, Kathy or Terry.  
This stopped in high school, when even the nuns used whatever name you preferred.  It was a little strange, because some of the nuns from my elementary school were transferred to my high school, which was a few blocks away. During the time my high school was being built, you could watch the workers lift the steel girders into place from some of the elementary school windows..

Laugh!! That's rude and nasty not to call someone by their given name. Those nuns were some Christians. 🙄

I'm still not sure if Abbie is her full name or if she has another one.

[AryasMum]

On 4/24/2021 at 3:08 PM, Temperance said:

Laugh!! That's rude and nasty not to call someone by their given name. Those nuns were some Christians. 🙄

I'm still not sure if Abbie is her full name or if she has another one.

Google tells me it’s Abbie Grace Burnett. Not sure of the accuracy. 

[anna0852]

There is an AMA on Reddit from someone who knew the Duggars growing up. Apparently JD and Smuggar got into an actual physical fight at one point. JD really doesn't like Smug and apparently turns into a wolverine when he fights.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/n2jg4k/i_grew_up_with_josh_duggar_ama/gwk7117?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

 

[Churchhoney]

7 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

There is an AMA on Reddit from someone who knew the Duggars growing up. Apparently JD and Smuggar got into an actual physical fight at one point. JD really doesn't like Smug and apparently turns into a wolverine when he fights.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/n2jg4k/i_grew_up_with_josh_duggar_ama/gwk7117?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

 

Well, a couple years ago when I first watched that early special that Josh emceed or whatever, I thought (still think) he had the most arrogant air I'd ever seen in a teenage boy. And I taught high school for 15 years. He was the "leader of the family" according to the Gothard system....so I've always wondered if that's what happens when you treat some kids with strong natural tendencies to be arrogant like they're kings. 

If he was that way around the house -- and it seems likely he was -- no wonder he'd infuriate his next younger brother. .... On that special he looked to me like somebody who'd be lording it over everybody all the time. 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Churchhoney

[emmawoodhouse]

12 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, a couple years ago when I first watched that early special that Josh emceed or whatever, I thought (still think) he had the most arrogant air I'd ever seen in a teenage boy. And I taught high school for 15 years. He was the "leader of the family" according to the Gothard system....so I've always wondered if that's what happens when you treat some kids with strong natural tendencies to be arrogant like they're kings. 

If he was that way around the house -- and it seems likely he was -- no wonder he'd infuriate his next younger brother. .... On that special he looked to me like somebody who'd be lording it over everybody all the time. 

 

That's when he got the name Smuggar. That goes back to TWOP. 😀

[madpsych78]

1 hour ago, anna0852 said:

There is an AMA on Reddit from someone who knew the Duggars growing up. Apparently JD and Smuggar got into an actual physical fight at one point. JD really doesn't like Smug and apparently turns into a wolverine when he fights.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/n2jg4k/i_grew_up_with_josh_duggar_ama/gwk7117?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

 

Well now I'm just imagining JD morphing into a superhero played by Hugh Jackman!

#TeamJDalltheway

[Slakkie]

1 hour ago, anna0852 said:

There is an AMA on Reddit from someone who knew the Duggars growing up. Apparently JD and Smuggar got into an actual physical fight at one point. JD really doesn't like Smug and apparently turns into a wolverine when he fights.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/n2jg4k/i_grew_up_with_josh_duggar_ama/gwk7117?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

 

I think JD would not be opposed to doing that again.  His disgust for his brother was not hidden.  I bet Abbie has a good right hook too...

[Temperance]

I think JD should look into getting some kind of commercial pilot's license either to move cargo or fly passengers around.

[libgirl2]

40 minutes ago, Slakkie said:

I think JD would not be opposed to doing that again.  His disgust for his brother was not hidden.  I bet Abbie has a good right hook too...

I would cheer them both on. 

[Zella]

I'm feeling very letdown that the fight story doesn't provide us any more detail than just there was a fight. LOL

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Temperance said:

I think JD should look into getting some kind of commercial pilot's license either to move cargo or fly passengers around.

He has a commercial license.  

[Temperance]

5 minutes ago, Absolom said:

He has a commercial license.  

Are you sure? I thought he only had license to fly a private plane, but not a commercial license. 

If he has license that would allow him to get a job as pilot, he should look for a job as a pilot. 

[emmawoodhouse]

23 minutes ago, Zella said:

I'm feeling very letdown that the fight story doesn't provide us any more detail than just there was a fight. LOL

JD would wipe the floor with that fat piece of shit. 

Duggar Fight Club? 👍

[iwantcookies]

12 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

 

Duggar Fight Club? 👍

Coming to TLC Summer 2021. 

[Absolom]

25 minutes ago, Temperance said:

Are you sure? I thought he only had license to fly a private plane, but not a commercial license. 

If he has license that would allow him to get a job as pilot, he should look for a job as a pilot. 

I'm sure.  Anyone can verify it by checking the FAA website.

Remember a commercial license means he can be paid.  He isn't rated to fly anything of much size.  That's a different issue.  

To fly a commercial airliner would require extensive further training.  

[JoanArc]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I'm feeling very letdown that the fight story doesn't provide us any more detail than just there was a fight. LOL

Sadly, that tread also implies JB was psychically abusive to Josh. Lots of interesting pearls. It does sound like JD is the good-natured, quiet type.

[Aunt Catfish]

17 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Coming to TLC Summer 2021. 

I'd watch!

[absnow54]

On 5/1/2021 at 5:09 PM, anna0852 said:

JD really doesn't like Smug

Wasn't JD the only Duggar to put Smug in his wedding party post-2015 banishing? Even though it messed up TLCs filming? I just found that so strange, especially since he seemed to be really upset with Josh when Counting On started. 

[cmr2014]

15 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Wasn't JD the only Duggar to put Smug in his wedding party post-2015 banishing? Even though it messed up TLCs filming? I just found that so strange, especially since he seemed to be really upset with Josh when Counting On started. 

That assumes that JD made that decision. It's possible that he did, but it's also possible the JB decided that Smugger should be in the wedding party as part of the attempt to sneak the whole family back on tee vee.

[ginger90]

[Liddy52]

Cute picture! She looks like a happy baby. 

[Pingaponga]

That is one adorable little girl!

[BitterApple]

Gracie is precious. That's a cute picture.

[mynextmistake]

Abbie looks pregnant, but that might just be the cut of her top. 

[awaken]

19 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

Abbie looks pregnant, but that might just be the cut of her top. 

I agree!  I commented as such on her photo- let’s see if the leghumpers jump down my throat!  

[emmawoodhouse]

7 minutes ago, awaken said:

I agree!  I commented as such on her photo- let’s see if the leghumpers jump down my throat!  

That's why I bring pics here to comment on. 😁 No annoying leghumpers jumping down your throat in defense of people who don't deserve it.

Edited May 12, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[mynextmistake]

20 minutes ago, awaken said:

I agree!  I commented as such on her photo- let’s see if the leghumpers jump down my throat!  

How old is Gracie? I’d be kind of surprised if she was pregnant again this fast after having such a miserable pregnancy last time. They’re attending a normal SBC church, not a Gothard fundie one, so birth control might be on the table.

I’ve always wondered if Gothard made exceptions for maternal health. I had severe HG with Mini Mistake and that, coupled with some other pregnancy/birth complications, is the reason she’s an only. My OB basically said I should stop at one or “we might not be as lucky next time.” Does anyone know if this would be allowed under Gothard rules? 

[emmawoodhouse]

Gracie was born January 2020, so it's not *that* soon. I just hope her top/dress is bunched badly.  I also hope she spares herself such horrible pregnancies, but it didn't stop Alyssa Bates Webster from having four, three of whom were pretty much back to back. 

[cmr2014]

24 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

How old is Gracie? I’d be kind of surprised if she was pregnant again this fast after having such a miserable pregnancy last time. They’re attending a normal SBC church, not a Gothard fundie one, so birth control might be on the table.

I’ve always wondered if Gothard made exceptions for maternal health. I had severe HG with Mini Mistake and that, coupled with some other pregnancy/birth complications, is the reason she’s an only. My OB basically said I should stop at one or “we might not be as lucky next time.” Does anyone know if this would be allowed under Gothard rules? 

I don't think so; in fact, I think the opposite is true. Women are supposed to birth babies, the more babies the better, the higher the risk, the more the woman is demonstrating her willingness to "sacrifice for Jesus." The Mother's Days screeds that JB pressures (IMO) their children to make every year often include mention of the fact that J'chelle risked her life to bring them into the world.