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Churchhoney

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  1. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    Well, given some of the complaints people make about how the place is run it wouldn't be surprising if someone was allowed to skate if MacArthur buddied up to the person and appreciated his contributions otherwise -- i.e., in this case the PR. He is supposed to master both Hebrew and New Testament Greek to the point of being able to use this language knowledge to interpret for his congregation the deep meaning of both Old Testament and New Testament texts by graduation time. Based on the course listing for what I'm pretty sure is the program he's in, the language mastery - no surprise -- seems to be the biggest single task they set. But I guess someone can always fudge the grading on the final proficiency tests! Here's what they study-- "The M.Div. curriculum provides a broad biblical, theological, and practical foundation for ministry. Electives allow you to go beyond the core curriculum and prepare you specifically for your future ministry goals. Whether you want to preach more effectively, pursue further academic training, serve overseas on the mission field, become a Bible translator, or hone your skills in biblical counseling, the M.Div. will fully equip you for ministry. 10 LANGUAGE COURSES 7 BIBLE COURSES 6 THEOLOGY COURSES 6 MINISTRY SKILLS COURSES 5 PREACHING COURSES 5 ELECTIVE COURSES" I had the same grad-school experience you did. I didn't do anything but attend class, study, work my student job teaching and assistant teaching, and run back and forth to my house to grab a few hours of sleep and some scrambled eggs for dinner. And that was true throughout every semester. In my leisure time, I've always been first and foremost a massive newspaper junkie. But while I was in grad school I once went an entire calendar year without even scanning the front page of a single day's newspaper except what I occasionally noticed in a newspaper box as I raced by on my way to and fro. But I know programs vary a lot in that respect, depending on many factors such as whether most people in the program will be working full-time outside the university. Jer's school seems to expect this program to have both students attending who aren't currently working in a church and those who are. And they give a range of "how many semesters it'll take you" partly based on which of those categories you fall into, I think. A lot of the guys who are working in their home churches take the outside-LA version of the course. Jer did that last year, although whether he did one or two semesters that way we never heard. He should be on a faster route to completion starting this year, though. I wonder whether he'll actually have to do the whole national job-search thing most pastors seem to go through or whether Grace Community LA or another MacArthur enterprise will just hire him and be done with it.
  2. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    Browsing restaurant reviews and instagram fashion influencers.
  3. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    Exactly. If you don't have an answer today, leave that question for the (tragically, inevitable) next "J&J Q&A" and -- between now and then -- spend your time coming up with an answer instead of publicizing and taking free food from casual-dining restaurants across the LA area.
  4. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    Chuck is a Reformed Baptist, i.e, a Calvinist evangelical. There are several loosely organized groups of churches under that rubric in the U.S. that are denominations in the sense that they hold to the same creeds and such, but I don't think any of them has the denominational organization and hierarchy that the mainlines do. Whether Chuck's churches have belonged to one of those groups I don't know. A fair number of independent churches are also both evangelical and Reformed (i.e., Calvinist), but they generally don't call themselves Reformed Baptist as far as I can tell. I suppose because they want to show they're not part of any of those somewhat organized groups. MacArthur's church is among those. (and so was Conway's Grace Community in Texas, from which the Laredo church is a plant) So since those are Jer's church connections -- and thus his faith past, present and future, as far as I can tell -- he should say that he's an evangelical Christian who follows a Calvinist theology and say a bit about what that means, it seems to me. It's not some out-there thing. (Although not too many years ago, combining "Baptist" and "Reformed" would have been the Jabberwock.) Over the past 30 years or so, growing numbers of people even in the Southern Baptist Convention -- including seminary heads -- have embraced Calvinist theology fully and openly. So in fact Jer's part of a very large and possibly even, by now, dominant strain of evangelical Christianity -- across some denominations and many independent churches alike. And so when somebody asks a person who claims to already have been a professional leader in that kind of church for years, that person should be prepared to give a little explanation of what it means to be an evangelical and a Calvinist, if you ask me. To fumble around and not do that raises the exact same issue as he had early on in this ask-me-questions-I'm-a-star phase regarding Jake the Cat. Not doing it raises way more questions than an answer would raise. And it makes people wonder whether something nefarious is going on or whether J&J are just some kind of idiots. Or what. Jer's doing himself no favors by appearing both unwilling and unable to give immediate clear answers to perfectly ordinary and straightforward questions. I doubt even his current suck-up-ees would be thrilled to know that their future star preacher and favorite golfing buddy can't immediately state that he follows a Reformed theology and tell people what that means. (Don't know that it would thrill Chuck to learn that, either. He raised Jeremy fully in that tradition and spends his own life talking about it.) [Just to clarify (or complicate) (and despite what I said about the Jabberwock) there is a fairly long history of minglings of Baptist or Baptist-related evangelicals and Reformed churches in the U.S. That's largely because the Baptist revival tradition caught hold from time to time with the large number of both English-descended inheritors of the Calvinist/Reformed Puritan early Americans and many German-Americans, many of whom had Reformed churches in the U.S., offshoots of Germany's Calvinist churches. So you got various churches over the years that combined Baptist traditions seen in revival movements with Calvinist theology. When I was a kid, we went to an Evangelical and Reformed Church (a denomination formed in the early 20th century by German-Americans out of the Calvinist tradition but influenced by Baptist-type revivalism). And then when I was a slightly older kid that denomination joined with the Congregational Christian Churches, one of the heirs of the Puritan/Calvinist tradition, to form the United Church of Christ. That history is living proof that neither Calvinism nor Baptist theology only gives rise to close-minded ultra-conservative misogynists. In this case an English Calvin-influenced denomination came together with a German Calvinist denomination to form what was then and is still the most liberal of the mainline churches by a long shot............... So, I say again, these people's close-mindedness and bigotry really are not the result of their faith and theology. They're what result when fearful, close-minded, pissy, bigoted people take up any faith and theology, in my opinion.]
  5. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    Yeah, I do get that. To the extent they're in a group, you'd call it Reformed....and possibly Reformed Baptist-- i.e., it's mostly Calvinist with an evangelical twist. Not sure MacArthur uses the Reformed Baptist name, but Chuck Vuolo has tended to, and he's in the same strand of things. It does surprise me that Jeremy's not interested in making some Reformed/Calvinist points in a little blurb. And just say that they basically have a Reformed theology. But maybe he figures it's too complicated to explain. I can see that. Although if you're going to spend your life preaching about it, you'd probably better work up a description. And maybe sooner rather than later. And Jeremy's already had a job in a church with a very similar theology -- the same theology, as far as I know -- so I'm actually surprised he doesn't have some laypeople-friendly stuff to say at the ready right now. ETA: I wouldn't expect that from somebody who's only a congregant. But Jer plans to be a biggety big big shot in this faith., it seems. So why wouldn't he jump at the chance to explain to people why it's so good and so important. .... Plus, he chose to answer the question about religion. He could have skipped it until J&J Q&A #9 or whenever he manages to construct a people-friendly answer. As with a lot of Jer actions, I find it baffling that he didn't jump at the chance to do that, really. I would think his not answering it wouldn't look good to his mentors, either, frankly.
  6. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    The Ministry of Weirdness and Perversion. 😀🤣😈 Is that somewhere near Diagon Alley?
  7. Churchhoney

    The Lonely Js Club: Jana, Jedidiah, Jeremiah, Jason and James

    I think that's definitely one of the possibilities. But it also seems to be true that most of the guys who yowl stuff like that are fundie guys who achieved a pretty significant age (in their world) without pairing up with any fundie women (and there are a lot available) or, in fact, with any women, period. Maybe they're just super-picky, or rotten to be around or secretly gay or not actually interested in a fundie wife even if their parents want that...or whatever. Plus, most of the guys who've been spoken of in these pairings have been slightly younger than Jana. And unless you're Bin that seems to be a total deal-breaker in this world. I think most of the guys would feel thwarted and insulted at the suggestion that they should marry anybody who's a couple (or more) years older than they are, even if she was the nicest person on Earth. In addition, one of the loudest sneerers and disavowers has since been arrested for child molestation -- so obviously an older woman isn't his speed. (Or any woman committed to, you know, pre-marital chastity and not in the available-for-rape category.) And another of the quoted Yikes! Not her-ers was Tim Tebow. And he's constantly dated -- dated, mind you -- fashion models and beauty queens. (and is apparently now engaged to a, wait for it, former Miss Universe...) Not only didn't he "court" but he seems to exclusively date women who wear strapless mini-dresses to shop at Whole Foods. (And unlike DerBinJer, he doesn't need to latch onto the Duggar train to advance himself. He's got far more fame than they do, and I expect he was mainly just annoyed at the Jana suggestion because he considers the whole clan -- and their cult, perhaps -- beneath him and would never want them hanging onto his coattails.....) (Plus -- is there any evidence that Jana and Tim Tebow ever exchanged two words with each other? Didn't the couple story start because JB and M were at some event at which they fleetingly met Tim's mother? ... If I'm remembering that right -- though I may not be -- any opinion he may have implied about Jana (if he even actually implied one) is less than meaningless...) The thing is, there are many unmarried young-but-aging women in these families. But the media and the public just keep creating stories about Jana as a potential partner for various guys because Jana's the one that most people and most media writers actually know about, from tv. So when those media- and overheated-fan-created -- totally mythical -- "relationships" turn out not to be real, the guys get "interviewed" or their social media gets scrutinized. And when they say "no, not courting her," everybody looks at Jana and says, "Wow, what's wrong with her?" An equally apt story might be, "Why have guys obviously avoided romantic entanglement with the beautiful Botkin sisters (who are way older than Jana)? Maybe they're really nasty bitches!" But that never gets bandied about because only a few people know who they are. So no guys are ever named by media and fans as possible suitors -- so you don't get any reactions from guys that we can then parse to figure out what the hell is wrong with the Botkins. Even though they're in the exact same position as Jana. I think the "what's really up with Jana" question can't be answered. Partly because there are so many alternative explanations for the reactions of the guys who've been named as possibilities for her husband. But mostly because she seems to be one of the Duggars who protects her privacy and has no interest in doing stuff that might accidentally reveal to the public what she really thinks and feels and what she's really like.
  8. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    You're absolutely right about this, of course.....But I don't think either Jer and Jingle, or MacArthur, are fully aware of it...or of its ramifications. Jer and MacArthur, at least, seem to have some notion that these high numbers are their ticket to ride. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think Jer sees himself on the road to real fame and influence. He does think he's all that -- and some of that feeling comes from these numbers. It's clear from interviews he gave during his soccer years that he aspired to major fame as a top-flight athlete who was also an influential conservative Christian. And his current demeanor says to me that he now has some idea his dream of fame is coming true. So, uh, rude awakening potentially coming up. My feeling about the tossing stuff on the ground and such is this: If these are your gestures when you're on camera like this, you're almost certainly going to do perhaps subtler but similarly dismissive things when you're in front of people in real life. Because these gestures come naturally to you and it doesn't occur to you to question them. And we know exactly what he intends to do for a living -- speak and be the spiritual leader of a group, a large one. He plans to be revered and looked up to for his great wisdom and public presence. And there it is going to matter. Since I'm pretty sure these little sessions are at least partly intended to be practice for his future career out in front of the crowd, if he had any idea that details of his demeanor need scrutiny and perhaps revision to do well there, we ought to see him making some thoughtful choices about that in the videos. He's over 30 years old and he's in academia preparing for this career.....Nobody can tell me that some guys in similar situations aren't carefully perfecting their personas, presentation styles and all the details relevant to being top speakers at this very moment. But we don't see him doing that. He's clearly clueless about how his demeanor may come off to people. He's acting like a careless child about the whole "preparation to be a lifelong public speaker" thing, seems to me. I think he could be in for a rude awakening there, too, down the line.
  9. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    I know that, in truth, that means nothing. But if you're a person who's asked one of those questions, or someone a little insecure or shy who admires them and might think of asking a question, that's very likely to feel slightly disrespectful and offputting, even if unconsciously. If you're really serious about projecting a great image to the public, you quickly learn that little things mean a lot and you don't do stuff like that. Especially true for an aspiring spiritual leader. You gotta up your appearance-of-empathy game, Jer. And I assume they're doing this at least partly to practice public presentations. That's the kind of thing that needs work.
  10. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    jinger's 25 and Jeremy's 31, I think.
  11. Churchhoney

    The Lonely Js Club: Jana, Jedidiah, Jeremiah, Jason and James

    So he left an idiotic and deeply false comment. Not to mention a comment designed to boost Gothardism, which the Bateses now spend a fair amount of energy pretending they don't do. (but of course they do do it, because they make money from it -- ) Yeah. That's Lawson Bates.
  12. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    Thanks! We should always remember, though, that there's a fine line between insight and ill-informed idle speculation!
  13. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    Glad I could slightly lighten the mood! I share your feelings and qualms about this. And Jer's stuff is not helping the bad image. I find that fact quite interesting. On the bright side, a lot of people have spoken up, either publicly or confidentially to WASC, saying that the favoritism, nepotism, meanness and MacArthur's use of money to get his way go very much against their beliefs and that the WASC criticisms are just. And that includes quite a lot of people who hold what to me are really antediluvian theological and other beliefs. Like this guy, a very high-profile and influential seminary alum -- "RALPH DROLLINGER / JANUARY 7, 2019 AT 7:23 AMREPLY "HI John Matthew Fox; I agree with your overview completely. "As a graduate of TMS, I later experienced the same kinds of things you did at the college as I led Capitol Ministries: Harsh heavy-handedness has been MacArthur’s way of dealing with things over the years; he clearly violates 1 Peter 5:3. With most everyone on his boards being on his payrolls (some place or another) our Lord’s patience with him has now seemingly run out; my take on this is that God has now raised up objective leadership — the Accreditation folks, folks he must submit to — to bring to light MacArthur’s patently unbiblical way of dealing with people. He has hurt so many. "Similar to ORU and the Hobby Lobby rescue of that Christian College from its failed leadership, the TMS/TMU board needs to resign and fresh leadership be appointed. Another realistic solution is to merge TMU with another Christian College, since Christian student enrollment in Christian Colleges is way down across the nation and there are more schools than are necessary (unfortunately). "I appreciate your courage in stating what you have dear brother. Ralph Drollinger, President and Founder, Capitol Ministries" "I should add to my above post, and I say this with a sad heart as a graduate of TMS, whose seminary faculty prepared me well for the ministry I have today in Washington D.C., that existing students should transfer and that incoming freshmen should go somewhere else – if they desire to earn an accredited degree." "The fact that an outside governmental agency objectively documented and determined that MacArthur’s leadership does not even meet the moral and ethical standards of the world, deems him unqualified to remain at the helm. MacArthur measures up neither to WASC’s nor his own standards.... "Most important here is the cause of Christ, the Great Commission, the glory of God, and the sustainability and endurance of the University and Seminary (I am a graduate of the Seminary)—not MacArthur and his sycophant board members who are now trying to save face. [Editorial comment: via Jeremy Vuolo's social-media accounts! 😈] They have feathered their own bed; it is time for them to fly away." https://thejohnfox.com/an-open-letter-to-john-macarthur-and-the-masters-university/ It'll be interesting how this all plays out. I'm kind of baffled that Jer would cement himself so firmly to these people in a time when their future seems dicey. And I wonder what Chuck thinks, since this is his world as well. Part of me figures that Jer's embrace of it means Chuck may know a man who knows a man who's told them that the fix is in and that ultimately MacArthur will escape unscathed and keep his accreditation without changing a thing. But maybe I'm just being too pessimistic in that. 1 Peter 5:3 Note the KJV[ersion]. This verse all by itself explains why the Duggars and a lot of other SOTDRT grads don't understand much about their faith. Name one Duggar who would have a snowflake's chance in hell of correctly interpreting those words. lol 1 Peter 5:3 Parallel Verses [⇓ See commentary ⇓] 1 Peter 5:3, NIV: "not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." 1 Peter 5:3, ESV: "not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock." 1 Peter 5:3, KJV: "Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock." 1 Peter 5:3, NASB: "nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock." 1 Peter 5:3, NLT: "Don't lord it over the people assigned to your care, but lead them by your own good example." 1 Peter 5:3, CSB: "not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock."
  14. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    Well, I don't know about them not fighting back -- at least when it comes to the staff and the institution. I doubt there's anything they could or would do about Jer himself. But WASC hasn't re-accredited the seminary yet but instead have extended the time allotted for the seminary to mend its ways for about a year, I think. And the reason the accreditors have continued their scrutiny seems to be that they've gotten a high volume of complaints from students, former students and staff about nepotism and numerous forms of favoritism. In MacArthur's fall 2018 speech on the matter he pointedly told everyone to shut up about their complaints because they were assisting Satan by complaining. However, I'm pretty sure the March 2019 WASC report said the complaints were continuing. So at least some people didn't go by the "shut up, you're satanic" thing. Additional alumni have published their critiques online this year, for example, mentioning theology. The favoritism stuff has gone on and on and, in the eyes of pretty many people connected to the group, it does contradict the supposed theology. Just because people attend or work at or graduated from a seminary that's developed a bad habit of ignoring theology doesn't mean that all those students and staff are willing to ignore it, too, especially when they feel like the "small" who are being spat upon! I still doubt the accreditation will be pulled. Seems to me too likely that political pressure behind the scenes will let them skate. But the griping and the attempts to get them to change don't seem to be subsiding either. Well, that probably means he'll need to schedule some additional golf dates with the Deans so he can improve his skills, right?
  15. Churchhoney

    The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

    I went to the wrong schools. In what kind of a graduate program does the first two weeks of a semester leave a married student with a child enough free time to seek out mentors to teach him food-photography to spice up his instagram, attend a professional sports contest and take up golf? (all before the second weekend) Also -- I wonder if he ever hangs out at all with his fellow seminarians. They're certainly not in evidence on his social media. Does he ever talk to them or is he too busy shopping for matching jackets with staff members? As @Lunera said, if WASC wanted more proof that MacArthur's top staff continues to play favorites with students, they need look no further than the social-media accounts. I expect that lying, papering over and conservative Christian political pressure will eventually let the Master's Seminary keep its accreditation. But the hijinks surrounding Jer seem to make clear that they have no intention at all of changing their ways.
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