S16.E03: Week 3

[tinkerbell]

someone posted that "39 isn't old".  while that is true, Clare says she wants marriage and children.  While women DO have children past age 40, it's more the exception than the rule.  If you haven't had kids, but want to, and you're not in a relationship, yeah, 39 is  kind of old.  

[Crashcourse]

3 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

Just imagine--won't it be refreshing to see Tayshia's happy grins and radiance after all Clare's pouting and glaring?  I think Tayshia's gorgeous and fun!

I just remember her as being too "extra" on the Bachelor, and I was tired of seeing her and her grinny chin.  The only thing she has going for her is big boobs.  So yeah, I'm not watching.

[Dehumidifier]

6 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

If production liked her, surely they would have nicely "suggested" that she say "Dale's and MY relationship" OR   "OUR relationship" since everyone knows it's her relationship with DALE.

I am constantly screaming "me!" when I watch TV these days. I see it often in print too. Just spotted this in the local senior center newsletter: "It was wonderful to have so many of you join Marianne and I for the listening groups..." Then there are the people who use "myself" when a simple "me" would do. EX: "He gave myself the bag of groceries." I only use myself to say I did something solo, such as "I carried the bag of groceries myself."

[tinkerbell]

10 minutes ago, Dehumidifier said:

I am constantly screaming "me!" when I watch TV these days. I see it often in print too. Just spotted this in the local senior center newsletter: "It was wonderful to have so many of you join Marianne and I for the listening groups..." Then there are the people who use "myself" when a simple "me" would do. EX: "He gave myself the bag of groceries." I only use myself to say I did something solo, such as "I carried the bag of groceries myself."

Yes, people try to be so proper by using "I"  instead of "me" when "me"  is appropriate.   Yet - the same people will say "me and my brother went to a party."   It seems that  the world has forgotten the rule  - take out the "and" and figure out which pronoun to use  - Do you ever say "I's" as a possessive?  Is it MY shoes or I's shoes?  do you say "ME went to a party?"   its not hard to figure out. 

(thank you to the school sisters of St Francis who drummed this into my head) 

[chocolatine]

14 minutes ago, Dehumidifier said:

I am constantly screaming "me!" when I watch TV these days. I see it often in print too. Just spotted this in the local senior center newsletter: "It was wonderful to have so many of you join Marianne and I for the listening groups..." Then there are the people who use "myself" when a simple "me" would do. EX: "He gave myself the bag of groceries." I only use myself to say I did something solo, such as "I carried the bag of groceries myself."

As someone who learned English as a second language, I don't understand why so many native speakers have such hard time using the correct  pronoun case. It's one of the simpler aspects of the language that non-native speakers don't usually struggle with. Do people not understand the concepts of subject, object, possessive, and reflexive?

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, alexa said:

That first person didn't turn out to be the one that worked out.  

Right, I think that points to why Clare's men are so angry.  They know she's starry eyed over Dale right now, but they've also noticed he talks too much and brags a lot, so they think if they could spend some time with Clare she might start to prefer them.  By skipping entire group dates and cocktail parties she isn't giving them a chance.  Desiree was  instantly smitten by some guy who looked like Poldark and knew it, posing  with the wind in his hair every chance he got.  But Desiree had good manners and gave her attention to all the guys and by the end she had seen the light and knew which man was really worthwhile.

 

2 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

All shows need more hillbillies.

Well we had Raven!  I remember her going on some swamp riding date, lying on her back with mud soaking her long beautiful hair and narry a complaint.  I think that qualifies her, bless her heart.

I wish they had quarantined a whole bunch of women.  They could turn this season into the old Bachelor Pad which I thought was lots of fun even though they rarely left the pool area.

2 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

As someone who learned English as a second language, I don't understand why so many native speakers have such hard time using the correct  pronoun case. It's one of the simpler aspects of the language that non-native speakers don't usually struggle with. Do people not understand the concepts of subject, object, possessive, and reflexive?

 There's where you second language people have the advantage.  You learned to speak English in school, while we learned it from hearing out parents and if they said it wrong, wrong will always sound right to us.

[SeeSee]

This may sound mean, but IMO it really is not cool for a 39 year old woman to be writing "Dale+Clare" repeatedly in a notebook and then admitting that on national TV.  Very gross.  She is obsessively self-centered and treats people like crap if she thinks they aren't worthy of her attention.  She refuses to acknowledge that it is a 2 way street.  I agreed with Yoseph telling her that, but then he went off the rails and took it too far.  The other guys do not even exist in her world.  She is the worst.    

 

I was not a Tayshia fan at all on the season she was on.  Too much baby talk, smiley smiley, etc.  I am probably out at this point.  She's pretty, and probably very nice, but I didn't enjoy her the first time and I doubt I would the second time.  

[dizzyd]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/pictures/abc-exec-spills-on-clare-crawley-tayshia-adams-bachelorette-drama/amp/

Quite an informative scoop on what went on behind the scenes during this episode, I think.

[plotpointer]

This was the most DERANGED Bachelor/Bachelorette episode that I've ever seen.   I told you she's mentally unstable and should have never been chosen as lead.  Last night, Clare used the words "love" and "my fiance."  This is INSANE!  For someone who is 39, you'd think she'd know by now that even if you're head-over-heels for someone you just met, you play it cool -- never come off as desperate and thirsty.  It's not a good look.  Clare reminds me of the middle-aged lady at the bar who aggressively hits on the 20-somethings.   

[Jax7917]

20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Look, we all know that this whole show is silly and manipulated by producers and editors and that the whole process producers way more influencers than actual couples, but...there is a system and there are rules here. They might be stupid, but they're there and everyone is supposed to follow them, and I cant stand when Bachelors and Bachelorettes start just changing rules and doing stuff just because they want to. Pete pulled a lot of the same crap, canceling dates and pulling weird shit on the contestants, and now Clare is doing the same thing.  

Do you honestly think the leads can do whatever they want whenever they want ? Producers have first hand in changing things and trying different things to make each season different and more interesting than the last . They aren’t gonna just let the lead to whatever they feel like doing . They most likely encourage the different things they do to promote higher ratings . 

[MaryAnneSpier]

Regarding Clare saying "my fiance": listen to that bit again. It's very obviously spliced audio. Plus, she's not facing the camera when she supposedly calls Dale her fiance. Production and editors are having a fun time putting Clare's part of the season together, I'm sure, because they can make the lead into the crazy villain. 

[Bluesky]

4 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

Isn't it all physical on this show? It's not as if they're spending 9 weeks with 1 or 2 people and can really get to know each other and figure things out. It's 30 guys who have to stand out. 

It's like when Michael Corleone saw Apollonia in The Godfather. He was awestruck. He was hit with the thunderbolt. It appears that the same thing happened with Clare.

Why these couples fall apart later is that once the cameras stop rolling, they realize that they're not a good match. They're stuck in a bubble for 9 weeks. Then when they shift from TV back to real life, they're like, oh, this just worked for the show.

I never saw The Godfather but yeah, it happens in the movies a lot.  

They do get caught up in all the beautiful scenery, luxury dates most people will never experience.  And physical attractions happen.  Some have been more shallow than others.  But they do spend nights together going to dinner then drinks, adventures, the beach.  There was none of that with Dale. This woman took it to another level. 

[call me ishmael]

I'm beginning to feel that I have been unfair to Juan Pablo these past few years.

[Mswldflwr]

9 hours ago, Stan39 said:

9 hours ago, Stan39 said:

My dad used to testify as an expert witness for some trials. Nicest guy ever, and he always made a point to be nice and cheerful to everybody when he came in the room. He’d introduce himself to the stenographers and get to chatting with them. He then would read transcripts of what people had said, and what he noticed was that transcripts of his testimony sounded clear, intelligent, and articulate. Whereas really high profile lawyers (who would storm into the room, be a dick to everyone, and rude and demeaning to the stenographers) would read with, “Umm, like... so... previously... um”. The stenographers were so good that they could edit out (or not) all the filler words and pauses that make us sound like idiots if you ever wrote it out verbatim. 
 

 

  Being a stenographer myself, we have a saying; Verbatim if you hate 'em.  

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

I don’t believe there’s one guy in his late 30s, let alone early 40s, which would be the perfect age range for Clare.

I looked up the ages of every bachelor: Jeremy is 40, Kenny is 39, Mike T. is 38, Page/Zach J. are 37 and Bennett/Ed W./Joe/Tyler S./Zac C. are 36.

[saber5055]

2 hours ago, OnTime said:

Oh, she probably decided he was her "fiance" during the make out session in her room! 

So now they can do "fiance things." I remember when some Bachelor talked about doing fiance things, I just can't remember which one it was.

I am right about this season bringing in the watchers though. This thread is already seven pages the day after while last week's only went six for the entire week. So whatever plan TPTB had, it's working. At least here, and on assorted news sources today.

[JudyObscure]

10 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

So now they can do "fiance things." I remember when some Bachelor talked about doing fiance things, I just can't remember which one it was.

During the ATFR of Andi's season Nick asked Andi, "If you weren't going to pick me why did we do fiance things in the Fantasy Suite?"  Andi was furious that he would "kiss and tell" like that.  That was all back in the olden days before proud declarations about the number of times in windmills while the man's parents cheer in the audience.  

[Bobcatkitten]

God, she is literally the worst. It also feels very manufactured. Like why would the other guys not on the group date show up to listen? Either way Clare is coming off as a terrible child and Dale frankly not much better. He makes no sense and contradicts himself. Ugh. 

Also, the funniest part was the second time she and Dale were kissing on the group date and a guy came in, watching Dale shuffle out while facing the wall to hide his hard-on was hilarious. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Bobcatkitten

[lynxfx]

Couldn't Clare just go to one of those speed dating events in her home town instead of wasting everyone's time on bachelorette? 

Best producer edit:

Clare: This is so hard.

(Camera cuts to Dale's crotch as he is laying on top of her)

[ramble]

2 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

I'm beginning to feel that I have been unfair to Juan Pablo these past few years.

Ees okay. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by ramble
Me too.

[Thumper]

3 hours ago, Dehumidifier said:

I am constantly screaming "me!" when I watch TV these days. I see it often in print too. Just spotted this in the local senior center newsletter: "It was wonderful to have so many of you join Marianne and I for the listening groups..." Then there are the people who use "myself" when a simple "me" would do. EX: "He gave myself the bag of groceries." I only use myself to say I did something solo, such as "I carried the bag of groceries myself."

Yes!  I am with you!!!  Or:  “Joe and myself went to the store.”  “Myself, Joe, and Bob went to the game.”  ACKKKKKKKK!!!!

So much misuse of the words “me, myself, I.”

[jade.black]

WOW. This is the most uncomfortable, cringey season ever. I felt like I needed a drink after both this week's and last week's episodes. Like I spend half of them covering my face, they're that hard to watch.

Clare has so many awesome, attractive guys there who seem genuinely like a fun and easy-going bunch, and she's treating them like shit. She and Dale are like high school freshmen giggling and sneaking around together and bullshitting about it. I can't even count the amount of horrendous things she did to the other guys in this episode but refusing to give out a group date rose after a party where she coerced them to talk abotu Dale the whole time just caps it. Like how many shows have you been on, Clare, and you can't even PRETEND to play the game?? That's not how this works! Plenty of other B'ettes picked out their guys on day 1 and were still mature enough to be courteous and show interest in the other men. Hand out other roses. Actually go on your freaking dates.

I didn't like the way Zach J grabbed her neck after she (super weirdly) pulled away from him mid-leaning in for a kiss, but she didn't even bother explaining to him why she was triggered or why she (again, SUPER WEIRDLY) backed away just as she was going to kiss him, and he obviously left thinking it was because she thought he pulled back and not because he aggressively tried to turn her back towards him afterwards.

Yosef was a grade A dick, and I hope he gets torn apart worse than Clare after this episode. "Ashamed to be associated with you"? Ok, asshole. You don't speak to women (or anyone) like that, plus IT'S NOT EVEN YOUR SHOW, BRO. 

Let me just praise the other guys here since Clare obviously isn't going to. Demar is HOT. Bennett is hot with his glasses and his scarves and martinis and his whole Bruce Wayne/Elijah (from Vampire Diaries/Originals) vibes and looking comfortable as hell putting on that tux. Zac C looks like a weird hybrid of Matt McConaughey/Pauly Shore/Jerome Flynn (Bronn from GoT) and it's working for me. I find Joe (?)- the Korean guy- really attractive. And Riley last week got me with his smooth talk and dancing. These are some QUALITY MEN, CLARE. Arrghh. Please, Tayshia, show them the appreciation they deserve... Her emerging from that pool was like a fantasy for all of us suffering through this season.

[Dottie D]

I just finished watching last night's episode, and Clare comes off completely unlikeable.  There's so much to say, but everyone has already said it.

The Bachelor/Bachelorette shows are sometimes guilty pleasures for me, but last night's episode wasn't a fun episode to watch, mainly because of the way Clare behaved.

[gingerandcloves]

3 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

I'm beginning to feel that I have been unfair to Juan Pablo these past few years.

Sharleen only has good things to say about him. Make of that what you will.

[saber5055]

Because you guys made me fascinated with Dale's ears, I found a photo. On the right is Dale, on the left is a generic guy from a stock photo service.

 

[Starlight925]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I looked up the ages of every bachelor: Jeremy is 40, Kenny is 39, Mike T. is 38, Page/Zach J. are 37 and Bennett/Ed W./Joe/Tyler S./Zac C. are 36.

Oh wow, I stand corrected!  Seems like the ones she likes are just the younger ones.  Her "fiancé" Dale was 31 when they filmed.

But there are obviously, from your research, plenty of age-suitable guys.  It's just Clare that's not suitable....for anyone.

[Arkay]

4 hours ago, lynxfx said:

 

Best producer edit:

Clare: This is so hard.

(Camera cuts to Dale's crotch as he is laying on top of her)

This cries out for a Michael Scott voiceover: "That's what she said!"

[Wandering Snark]

2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Because you guys made me fascinated with Dale's ears

Smashed up ears like that make me wonder if he was a wrestler or a rugby player at some point beside the supposed football career. It's the only thing I can think of.

Personally I think they simply had Tayshia ready to roll if need be due to a Corona complication. They had extra men why not an extra B'ette? Hell, they've been doing it for plays forever. Always have an understudy. That this was all set up to make Clare look bad and pull her from the season for ratings is far fetched at best. Only Clare could believe that.

I just wonder why they had Tayshia emerging from a pool full of baby oil. That is both wierd and most likely expensive.

 

[Back Atcha]

9 hours ago, TVMovieBuff said:

I don't think the plan was for Clare to screw up the show.

I agree for these reasons:

• She's not smart enough.
• She's not savvy* enough.
• She's not stable enough.
• She's so self-centered she can't see the forest for the trees.

*Even thought she's been around the block more times than any of her suitors...even that "best-suited" one.

[Back Atcha]

9 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

someone posted that "39 isn't old".  while that is true, Clare says she wants marriage and children.  While women DO have children past age 40, it's more the exception than the rule.  If you haven't had kids, but want to, and you're not in a relationship, yeah, 39 is  kind of old.  

I hope Angela's "Mikull" (90-Day Fiance) isn't reading that.

[Back Atcha]

8 hours ago, SeeSee said:

I agreed with Yoseph telling her that, but then he went off the rails and took it too far. 

Thank you.  Just as I tell Rachel Maddow to CALM DOWN, I kept telling Yoseph THAT'S ENOUGH.  Okay, Yoseph, stop.  Oops, you've gone too far.  Buh, bye, Yoseph.

8 hours ago, Bluesky said:

But they do spend nights together going to dinner then drinks, adventures, the beach.  There was none of that with Dale.

Too many flight/travel restrictions due to COVID.  Same with restaurants, adventures, etc.  

[EllenB]

2 hours ago, Arkay said:

This cries out for a Michael Scott voiceover: "That's what she said!"

Clare does look a lot like Jan... and matches her emotional instability. And the way she treats men.

Edited October 29, 2020 by EllenB

[PhysNerd]

11 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

someone posted that "39 isn't old".  while that is true, Clare says she wants marriage and children.  While women DO have children past age 40, it's more the exception than the rule.  If you haven't had kids, but want to, and you're not in a relationship, yeah, 39 is  kind of old.  

So a woman is old if she wants kids, but may struggle to have them?  Wow... 

There are many women in their 20s who are struggling to become pregnant naturally.  Then they have the added difficulty of carrying the pregnancy to full term.  Are these women in their 20s "old" because they have low fertility?  A woman's fertility sharply decreases after 25, so would a 28 year old woman be too old in your eyes since she is significantly less fertile (statistically speaking) than a 24 year old? Many of these 20-something year old women will never marry as most men refuse to marry these days.  Are they old because their chances of marriage are next to nothing? 

A person is young (or old) regardless of their fertility status or marital status.  At 39, Clare is batshit insane, but she is definitely young.  I'm younger than Clare, but I've taken care of people of all ages.  By having this experience, I've realized that in the grand scheme of things, 39 (or even those in their 40s) is really young and don't have nearly has much knowledge about life as you would think. People think they know so much when they reach their 30s and 40s, but they actually know very little.  They are "kids" in comparison to older adults.  

Rant over.

I know many people have said (or implied) that Clare is single because she is mentally unstable.  I don't think this is the case as many married men and women are 10x more unstable than Clare and that hasn't stopped them from marrying nice, stable people. Many men find clingy and overly emotional women to be very attractive because these women give off the impression that they always need a knight-in-shining armor to rescue them.  They may complain about a woman's moodiness, but their actions betray their true feelings; they love these types of women because they "challenge" them.  

She is single because she has not yet found the right man for her. Just as a man needs to choose her, she also needs to choose a man.  Not everyone finds the love of their life in their 20s.  Many people don't find the right person until their 50s.  Clare may be one of these people. 

 

[Just Carol]

On 10/27/2020 at 8:13 PM, saber5055 said:

Yeay Clare, she said exactly what I was thinking: "That's why you were NOT on that date" to Yousef. Points for Clare.

 

Does that much thought reallly go into picking which men go on which date?

[Mu Shu]

1 hour ago, PhysNerd said:

So a woman is old if she wants kids, but may struggle to have them?  Wow... 

There are many women in their 20s who are struggling to become pregnant naturally.  Then they have the added difficulty of carrying the pregnancy to full term.  Are these women in their 20s "old" because they have low fertility?  A woman's fertility sharply decreases after 25, so would a 28 year old woman be too old in your eyes since she is significantly less fertile (statistically speaking) than a 24 year old? Many of these 20-something year old women will never marry as most men refuse to marry these days.  Are they old because their chances of marriage are next to nothing? 

A person is young (or old) regardless of their fertility status or marital status.  At 39, Clare is batshit insane, but she is definitely young.  I'm younger than Clare, but I've taken care of people of all ages.  By having this experience, I've realized that in the grand scheme of things, 39 (or even those in their 40s) is really young and don't have nearly has much knowledge about life as you would think. People think they know so much when they reach their 30s and 40s, but they actually know very little.  They are "kids" in comparison to older adults.  

Rant over.

I know many people have said (or implied) that Clare is single because she is mentally unstable.  I don't think this is the case as many married men and women are 10x more unstable than Clare and that hasn't stopped them from marrying nice, stable people. Many men find clingy and overly emotional women to be very attractive because these women give off the impression that they always need a knight-in-shining armor to rescue them.  They may complain about a woman's moodiness, but their actions betray their true feelings; they love these types of women because they "challenge" them.  

She is single because she has not yet found the right man for her. Just as a man needs to choose her, she also needs to choose a man.  Not everyone finds the love of their life in their 20s.  Many people don't find the right person until their 50s.  Clare may be one of these people. 

 

It’s biology. A woman at 39 looking for a spouse is going to have trouble if she wants a baby, because she’s going to want it now. The spouse person is going to balk at her determination. The spouse person is also going to weight the cost of things like IVF, the stress involved, and being tied down almost immediately. 
Men don’t have that problem. Sorry if it’s not fair, it’s nature. I knew at 39 my time had passed. It was either younger guys who wanted to play, or older guys with kids. 
 

Clare is single because she’s an asshole. She plays out her issues and runs men off. Your SO isn’t a therapist. Even an ugly guy would tire of hearing about her abusive relationship. Frankly, I’m not sure she was the abused. 

[nutty1]

I watched last night. My takeaways....

I thought Clare was 39, not 15!

She was in love with Dale after spending what? 3 total hours talking to him?

I can look at Bennett and Jordan all day.  

What? Why? What happened with her when she went in to kiss that guy (I already forget his name)??!! 

I want to know why Jordan was holding a stuffed animal.

 

[Sweet-tea]

21 hours ago, weightyghost said:

I think the difference between what is happening here vs other seasons where there has been a front runner is that the other bachelor/ettes have the decency to still treat the other contestants like human beings. I don't need Clare to carry on making out with everyone to prove a point, but she acts like us vs them and every man is there to just break up her and Dale when they're just trying to get to know her.

She also has incredibly low self esteem, masked by 'I'm a strong woman.". Dude who got kicked off mid date was leaving regardless the second he didn't lean in to kiss her back. She said how embarrassed she was that he "pulled away" (he didn't) which is the exact thing she pulled when no one grabbed her immediately on the first date. Then suddenly it became about consent and him 'forcing himself' on her to kiss her once he realized what she was trying to do. Clare, I'll let you in on a secret - when you're walking away from someone and you suddenly turn back and get in their face, even if it is to kiss, it's a reflex to flinch. When he did it, it's rude. When you do it, he's not respecting you. Dude wasn't expecting it. He already said how nervous he was and suddenly it's his fault he couldn't read your jacked up signs that you wanted nothing to do with him. 

And she didn’t even have the decency to tell him herself. She sent out CH to do it! I don’t buy her being “triggered.” I think her ego was bruised. Even if she did feel scared of the guy, there was a camera crew there and producers around. I don’t remember another time CH did the ditching for a Bachelor or Bachelorette. Maybe it has happened before so someone can refresh my memory. 

She is neurotic. I hope this show is finally done with her. Enough!

Edited October 29, 2020 by Sweet-tea
Others made this point (about Clare not telling the guy he was finished) earlier but I missed it.

[laurakaye]

Clare: I love a good roast!  I like jokes!  I can take a joke!  It's nothing personal, guys!

Also Clare: LEAVE DALE ALONE!!  LEAVE HIM ALONNNNNNNNNNNNNNE!!!!!!!!!

[phlebas]

15 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

I'm beginning to feel that I have been unfair to Juan Pablo these past few years.

He must be laughing his ass off someplace.

[phlebas]

It looks like we're split on Tayshia.  Personally, I love her, but different strokes...

I am curious, though.  Given that they would possibly need a replacement Bachelorette -- not just because Clare is a lunatic flight risk, but because of the pandemic -- who should they have brought in?

There wasn't anyone on Peter's season both suitable and available. Especially not for a cast built with a 39 year old in mind. Hannah Ann and Madi are, what, 24 now?  Kelly is unavailable. Victoria Fuller would have caused a huge backlash and I think was with Chris Soules at the time anyhow. Kelsey?

Looking farther back to some of Tayshia's castmates: Hannah G is involved. So is Caelynn. Hannah B already turned them down, apparently (and thank Jesus for that). Demi would be entertaining, but... I dunno... kinda young for this group, sort of a mess, and I think a lot of people are sort of over Demi by now.

So I don't know who else besides Tayshia they could pick.  Plus having a second Black lead would have gone over well during these racially charges days. (Given that, maybe they should have skipped Clare completely and had Tayshia from the start.)

I only started watching with Arie's season, so there might be others I don't know about. 

(I did hear Tia's name come up, but I don't know.  I think they'd go with Kendall before dealing with Tia.)

Edited October 29, 2020 by phlebas

[archer1267]

So, Clare missed a group date because she was...hanging out with Deanna? (Which was awfully random. Did Deanna quarantine for 14 days before making her appearance?) And she rails into the guys for their bro time?

Quote

"Ashamed to be associated with you"? Ok, asshole.

Yosef's pearl-clutching was silly. Yep, strip dodgeball was stupid and a new low. But It's as if he never saw the show before. Group dates are often centered around some potentially humiliating activity. (IMO, a low point was the muay thai boxing in Ashley's season, where the guys were literally supposed to kick and punch each other for her entertainment.) If he's so principled he wouldn't have signed up for a reality dating show, as dumb antics are their stock in trade. And what does it say about him that he willingly left his daughter behind to meet a woman he knows nothing about (other than he thinks she's hot)? Time to get off the high horse. 

The season's boring with everything happening around La Quinta, but Clare blew a great opportunity to really get to know the guys in a more realistic, stripped-down setting. It's not hard to fall in love when you're in an exotic location, on a private sailboat or Michelin star restaurant. Quarantining, worrying about not seeing a sick family member, etc. - this is real, day-to-day stuff that everyone's dealing with.  It seems like a good group of guys, too. They deserved better than what they got last night.

[peachmangosteen]

18 minutes ago, archer1267 said:

So, Clare missed a group date because she was...hanging out with Deanna? (Which was awfully random. Did Deanna quarantine for 14 days before making her appearance?) And she rails into the guys for their bro time?

Yea, I didn't understand that at all. Did they seriously have Deanna quarantining at La Quinta just so she could go talk to Clare for a 2 minute segment? And yea, did Clare end up cancelling the date because she decided she'd rather sniff Dale's pants with Deanna? Did she somehow just lose track of time even though you'd assume Production would be like OK it's date time now? That whole thing was very manufactured.

[OnTime]

7 hours ago, EllenB said:

Clare does look a lot like Jan... and matches her emotional instability. And the way she treats men.

Who is Jan?

[SeeSee]

One thing I noted in the Yoseph/Claire conversation that I forgot to bring up in my earlier post.  I kind of laughed/cringed when he was talking about being away from his daughter (his choice, btw), and then Claire started to say she knew how he felt because her mom was dying.... (her choice to be absent, btw) and he stopped her and said "stop, this is about me" or something like that.  It was kind of mean, given the situation with her mom, but I've been there when someone ALWAYS wants to one-up you and I've wanted to say that.  

Maybe she just wanted to empathize, or maybe she is just so used to assuming that everything is about her, her, her that she can't help herself.  To each his own on that one.  

Also, it was really weird how Zach did seem to pull back when she went in for the kiss.  I don't blame her for feeling rebuffed.  And then his reaction showed that he really did want to kiss her.  Weird.  That whole exchange was all kinds of cringe-y.  Actually that whole date was.  I definitely did not like that he tried to grab her twice.  I really don't blame her for sending CH in to send him home.  It was obviously all over at that point.  And if she felt physically uncomfortable being with him, I would understand that.  He's probably a really nice guy, but he just kind of ham-handed that whole situation.  But, in the end, he is obviously better off being away from her.  

  It would really suck if Claire sent home some guys that Tayshia would have really liked (maybe even "the one." Insert eyeroll).  It seems like they should give the ones sent home another chance at this point.  Maybe they will.  

[peachmangosteen]

15 minutes ago, OnTime said:

Who is Jan?

From The Office.

[Boofish]

18 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

someone posted that "39 isn't old".  while that is true, Clare says she wants marriage and children.  While women DO have children past age 40, it's more the exception than the rule.  If you haven't had kids, but want to, and you're not in a relationship, yeah, 39 is  kind of old.  

That was me. Every age is "too old" for certain activities, but it does not make you old. I'm "too old" to join the military but I don't consider myself old.  But that's just me. People on Facebook are acting as if she is eligible for social security.

[nittany cougar]

4 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

It’s biology. A woman at 39 looking for a spouse is going to have trouble if she wants a baby, because she’s going to want it now. The spouse person is going to balk at her determination. The spouse person is also going to weight the cost of things like IVF, the stress involved, and being tied down almost immediately. 
Men don’t have that problem. Sorry if it’s not fair, it’s nature. I knew at 39 my time had passed. It was either younger guys who wanted to play, or older guys with kids.

As someone who married at 40 I agree with this 100 percent. This is one of the big reasons men who want kids avoid women in the over 35 age group.  It is not pleasant or fair, but it's a fact.  Also you have to have very honest conversations with a potential partner about what happens if you cannot conceive naturally.  

Besides that, I think Clare's emotional immaturity is just as big a problem for a relationship as the pressure to have a baby quickly.  She has no emotional depth whatsoever.  Everything is about what Clare thinks, who offended Clare today, and whether you think Clare is pretty.  While she is a very beautiful woman, by 39, the chance of getting a guy on looks alone is lower because guys who are into trophy women will go after younger ladies.

Edited October 29, 2020 by nittany cougar

[phlebas]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yea, I didn't understand that at all. Did they seriously have Deanna quarantining at La Quinta just so she could go talk to Clare for a 2 minute segment? And yea, did Clare end up cancelling the date because she decided she'd rather sniff Dale's pants with Deanna? Did she somehow just lose track of time even though you'd assume Production would be like OK it's date time now? That whole thing was very manufactured.

"Hi, DeAnna -- would you like to come stay at a high-end resort on ABC's dime, even if you only get about 45 seconds screen time?  You'd have to be away from your kids for a month."

I bet she didn't drop below 85mph all the way to the LaQuinta.

[Arkay]

5 hours ago, PhysNerd said:

 

 

5 hours ago, PhysNerd said:

There are many women in their 20s who are struggling to become pregnant naturally.  Then they have the added difficulty of carrying the pregnancy to full term.  Are these women in their 20s "old" because they have low fertility?  A woman's fertility sharply decreases after 25, so would a 28 year old woman be too old in your eyes since she is significantly less fertile (statistically speaking) than a 24 year old? Many of these 20-something year old women will never marry as most men refuse to marry these days.  Are they old because their chances of marriage are next to nothing? 

I'll just say what I've learned in my own life as a preamble to my point with Clare's age. I was married at 21 and had a child at 24. My identical twin sister married at 23, but she and her husband didn't want children yet. Then, unspeakably, my twin developed breast cancer when we were 31. After all her treatment, the oncologist told her she couldn't have children because of hormones, chemo infertility and other reasons. But when we turned 37 and thank God the cancer hadn't returned, the doctors told her if she wanted to risk having a baby, she had a very narrow window. She'd survived past the 5-year threshold but had a year of two left before it would be very, very difficult to conceive naturally.  This was a gynecological oncologist telling her that. She had one child at 38 and that was a miracle for many reasons. 

The other thing we learned is that it makes a difference in your late 30s if this is the first child or if you've had several by then. A first pregnancy after 35 is called an elderly primagravida. No one would call 35 elderly, but in the world of female fertility, it's just a fact.

This all leads to Dale and Clare. Clearly he finds her sexually appealing (the sidling along the wall to hid his erection from Eazy was hilarious). But Dale is 31. Clare's pretty and she's the prize, and he wants to be the winner, so that's all their crazy business. But if he wants to be a father, her age IS a factor. Yes there is adoption and IVF. But you are right, 39 as an age unto itself is not old. It IS a factor though if in a year from now they are together and Dale starts yearning for a child without resorting to other options. He's a product of a very close interracial family, his mother has passed, and only he knows how strongly he feels about this issue. 

Agree with you that there are women in their 20s with low fertility, but that's not the norm. I definitely think her age plays into some of her angst about not wasting time, although she's been histrionic in all her Bachelor show iterations. 

[Arkay]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

 

 

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yea, I didn't understand that at all. Did they seriously have Deanna quarantining at La Quinta just so she could go talk to Clare for a 2 minute segment? And yea, did Clare end up cancelling the date because she decided she'd rather sniff Dale's pants with Deanna? Did she somehow just lose track of time even though you'd assume Production would be like OK it's date time now? That whole thing was very manufactured.

I wondered about this, and about Margaret Cho, as well. Did these women quarantine for weeks for their few minutes on the show? I suppose the women giving pedicures were part of the hotel staff and also under quarantine?

I can maybe see Cho doing it for publicity and exposure. But for Deanna with two children at home? Quarantine is a big ask. How long ago did they give Tayshia the word that she'd have to isolate also, or did they have all the back-ups already quarantined in case someone tested positive and the "understudies" were called in?