JudyObscure

I actually prefer the 1940's version because I think Diana Wynyard was perfect for the role, but sure, of course I know it was fiction. What I meant was that the play/movies gave us the verb "to gaslight," so they are the classic examples. In them the person doing the gaslighting (both literally and metaphorically) was an older, well respected man and the woman was much younger and insecure. I don't think the Ingrid Bergman character would have succeeded in convincing her husband he was going crazy or convincing a doctor that he should be committed. I'm sure a gaslighting can take many forms but I think it would be harder for someone who no one respects (like Luke) to succeed in gaslighting a young woman like Hannah who seems to have plenty of self-esteem. I guess we'll see. Maybe next week Luke will tell Hannah she didn't really see Garrett's ding dong she just imagined the whole thing.

I didn't say that at all. I was talking about whether or not what Luke does should be defined as gaslighting. Shooting someone is never okay, neither is knifing someone, but if someone shot Hannah and everyone said, "Look he knifed her." I would question their definition of knifing. Here's the definition of gaslighting: Manipulating someone requires intention, you don't accidentally do it, psychological manipulation requires even more calculating and a good knowledge of psychology, that I don't see coming from Luke. Besides, I see no reason why Luke would want Hannah to question her own sanity. Gaslighting was traditionally used by people who wanted to commit their family members to asylums. I think Luke would like to have Hannah for his girlfriend and I think he would like her to pretend she already is and do, or not do, certain things. If they've been making out for hours that may be part of why he keeps thinking she is his girlfriend. The reason Kaitlyn was so upset after she slept with Nick is she had already privately told Shawn he was the one when she had slept with him. Even in this strange Bachelor situation people can give each other reasons to expect a certain amount of fidelity. I don't think Luke's a great guy, I think he blurts out whatever he's thinking and then back pedals and lies when he gets in trouble for what he said. I think he's immature and rather stupid, but I don't think he's abusive. Frankly, I think "gaslighting" is the popular new word and people are using it without really knowing what it means. It's a terrible thing, particularly when used against someone who is already mentally ill and more susceptible to doubting themselves and their own perception of reality. The accusation is serious enough it should be saved for when it really happens and not when some jerk claims he didn't say something we all know he said just to try and get himself out of trouble.

Yes, and I still don't think it's gaslighting unless the victim is believing it. In the movies the man was always a distinguished older gentleman and the wife very sheltered and naive, so she tended to believe everything he said. Hannah calls Luke on all his double talk, and he usually looks bewildered because he doesn't realize he's doing it. He believes his own lies and needs a trusted friend to check him every time until he sees it for himself and breaks the habit.. I'm guessing he was a very spoiled little boy. Luke will never be smart enough to gaslight anyone. As for the producers setting up the dates, they do, but I've always heard the star has the right to veto. When Hannah and Garrett got to the bungee spot, she said she knew it was going to be jumping but not the nude part. Then when they stepped out on the platform she said they had decided to do the jump naked but knew they didn't have to. I think she was told to mention that just so the show wouldn't get in trouble. As Hannah will tell you she's a "grown ass woman," and she knows she doesn't have to jump "butt ass naked" if she chooses not to.

Exactly, and that's why I kind of like him. He always starts out completely honest with Hannah; he felt jealous about the naked thing, was worried his mom wouldn't like her after that, etc. Then when it makes her mad, he starts frantically back pedaling, trying to tell her he didn't really say what we all heard him say. That's what I call immature behavior, saying he didn't steal the cookie while holding the cookie in his hand, bad non-apology where he's sorry she's mad, but not sorry for what he said. What I don't call it is gaslighting because gaslighting is much more subtle and powerful than Luke's childish behavior. I don't think Hannah is the right girl for Luke, but I don't think he would be an evil controlling husband. He would try to get his way, as everyone does, but back down easily and there's a chance the two would grow up and set realistic boundaries for each other. No one gets to do exactly what they want to do inside a marriage not even "strong women." Hannah is just as self-deluded as Luke is. She thinks she's a strong woman who no longer tries to please people. Really? I heard her say she had to go bungee jumping in the nude because "that's what they do here," and if she went to a beach where everyone took their clothes off she would, too. Strong women follow their own rules, not the crowd's. This is a show where you date lots of guys, but that doesn't mean you have to publicly straddle all of them. She is showing who she is just as Luke is, and I think she might be more suited to Jed than anyone else. They both like showing crowds of people their bodies, he with his stripping and she on the pageant stage in her little bikini (even her Miss Alabama evening gown was see-through.) Their only problem would be continually fighting for center of attention. He can't stop singing and she can't walk through a market without jumping up and down screaming. Hannah's face while she was having dinner conversation with Garrett was such weird Hannah. He was talking quite seriously about something and she was grinning so wide she was actually laughing a little. She is just so ON all the time.

Me too. Luke puts his foot in his mouth every time he opens it but all those guys ganging up on him and acting so superior when they themselves are strippers, models, and there for every reason but Hannah, just need to let up. For all his many faults Luke is the only one who really seems head over heels into Hannah. I'm going to start a tiny little HO-scale train for Luke. No way! Hannah just walked in in a dress that covers up her legs!

The post bungee jumping date was so funny with the two of them talking about how they learned not to do what other people want them to do and to trust their own instincts -- so when the producers wanted them to bungee jump naked and their instincts were terrified --- they did what the producers wanted them to do. They were so proud of themselves. Peter doesn't seem that young to me, he's just not very hairy and he has that Paul McCartney, chubby cheeks thing. I think he seems smarter than the others and is way too good for Hannah.

On "Poldark's" first season when Ross and Demelza were first falling in love they cut a romantic scene, so as not to leave out anything about the boring financial problems at the mine. I'll never forgive them. I recently paid the 60 dollars to get their "Passport," expecting to see great old Masterpiece shows, only to find out they don't own most of those things. I can now see as many reruns of "Columbus Neighborhoods" as I want, though. "Endeavour" is still wonderful to me. The young men are all dressing the way they did in my youth with trousers that fit properly in a nice unbroken line from waist to shoe top, making their legs look very long. It's all making me feel things I haven't felt in 50 years. Bring me my smelling salts!

Lets not leave one of the originators of the big wide coat over the shoulder -- James Brown. I kept expecting her to fling it off and step into a hot tub. I didn't even like the gown. It looked like the whole thing was designed just to frame that leg. The slit was widened and edged with glitter like it was afraid we might miss it. When she put said leg up on the back of the sofa while talking to the men, it was more of that overly obvious stuff, like the way she starts straddling the men as soon as they start kissing her. I think Hannah wants to be known as the hottest B'ette ever and she just seem too, too try-hard to me.

I looked up those traits: Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration. Sometimes including patronizing behavior. Sure sounds like our bossy, pageant girl to me.

Couldn't agree more. A show without much Bright is a show lacking something for me.

Yes! I saw that and it did look like Luke P's pick up and slam down of Luke S was a fairly defensive move. Luke S attacked in anger so he kind of got what he deserved and shouldn't have gone crying to Mama Hannah about it. I think the panic and drama in production would have made a much better show this year. At some point they had to see that Hannah was stuck on a dumb meathead, the rest of the men weren't having much fun, and it just wasn't going to be a very romantic or interesting journey for the fans to watch. So they went into the editing room, caught the moment she tells Luke, "You don't own me!" and said, "There! That shall be our theme and we have the great Leslie Gore song to promote it!" After that they had to edit the whole show to highlight Hannah's "strong woman" moments, even if they were really just hissy fits, bossy lectures and long boring dates where she tries to tell the men, "Let's talk about me!" without really saying it. We're just stuck with all this until the fantasy suite dates, which promise to make for some really good message board -- which is why I watch in the first place.

Krystal looks dazzling.

After all the gorgeous women who have gone through this show, why in the world has Chris Harrison fallen in fascination with Hannah? Is it because she throws herself in his arms during all her crying spells? Is it that big left leg that finds it's way out of half her gowns? Do men just want to get lost in that mouth? I'll never understand the male mind, but at this point it doesn't look like millionaire Chris has anymore chance with her than any of the other guys because she is simply drooling over Luke. If she's keeping him through all this just to get to the fantasy suite and then he turns her down? A completely wasted season.

They keep trying to sell this as the most dramatic season ever, and it's really, by far, the most boring one. So far we've had two guys arguing over a game, a bunch of the guys not liking one of the other guys,two men talking with their voices slightly raised. All the drama is just Hannah overreacting to every little thing, and lecturing the men for talking about anything other than how awesome she is. She's sobbed during every episode over nothing much at all -- but Hannah just hates drama. They need to bring on some more blood sports to cheer her up.

During the old murder case, one of the police had planted a bloody hammer so the prosecution would have a murder weapon -- the box Endeavor found had the real hammer in it. So Thursday was relieved to know he didn't hang the wrong man, but he knew all his past police work would be tainted if it became known that evidence had once been planted. Thursday is just so sad. He has to work for a thug, his wife is chronically depressed, his relationship with his daughter is strained. The fedora. On the other hand, when the horrible photographer started talking about one of the little girls as "sugar and spice," I was saying, "Punch him Thursday!" and was not disappointed. This remains one of the most beautifully filmed, compelling shows, I don't even care if I lose the plot, just watching Endeavor walk through that field after the white horse was wonderful.