Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[scriggle]

I'm surprised he hasn't violated the terms of his release yet since, y'know, rules don't apply to Duggars. But another six to eight months of being babysat greatly increases the odds of him violating the terms.

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, scriggle said:

I'm surprised he hasn't violated the terms of his release yet since, y'know, rules don't apply to Duggars. But another six to eight months of being babysat greatly increases the odds of him violating the terms.

Let's hope he does. 

[Rabbittron]

9 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

 

I wonder how much money JBoob will spend before he finally thinks enough is enough?

Blob will spend his last penny on Smuggar because he's the golden child and can do no wrong. 

[SMama]

4 minutes ago, scriggle said:

I'm surprised he hasn't violated the terms of his release yet since, y'know, rules don't apply to Duggars. But another six to eight months of being babysat greatly increases the odds of him violating the terms.

We really don’t know he hasn’t. I don’t believe the Rebers would call his PO. When you inconvenience your family to this extent your loyalty is to JB, not the law. They allegedly wanted to “minister and help” Volderjosh. 

[Rabbittron]

1 minute ago, SMama said:

We really don’t know he hasn’t. I don’t believe the Rebers would call his PO. When you inconvenience your family to this extent your loyalty is to JB, not the law. They allegedly wanted to “minister and help” Volderjosh. 

In my opinion the Rebers wouldn't want to upset Blob.

[CouchTater]

10 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

There is a timing element at play here. The defense said they were booked in court until February. 

I hope that if the judge grants this request the Rebers will say Enough! I'm sure Boob has a Rolodex full of godly friends who would love to house his wrongly accused son. 🙄

At what point, if any, does the judge/system decide that a defendant needs to find another legal team if the current team is unavailable for the foreseeable future?

Edited June 18, 2021 by CouchTater

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

At what point, if any, does the judge/system decide that a defendant needs to find another legal team if the current team is unavailable for the foreseeable future?

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think a judge is allowed to do that. Josh is legally entitled to have an attorney of his choosing. The judge may not grant the request, but I don't think the judge would ever order the defense attorney to be dropped from the case due to scheduling issues unless I'm missing something. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Zella

[rue721]

47 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

But that is what happened in the college admissions scandal.   They had the big raid where everyone got arrested (and Lori Loughlin got to fly back from Canada and turn herself in).   Then there was a round of plea deals.   Some took them.   Those who didn't got hit with more charges.  

That's a good point.

I expect that ultimately, Josh will plead out, because a trial would be too humiliating and everyone knows that it won't go well. I think they're probably asking for the delay both because that's just an ordinary thing to ask for and because it gives them more time to work out a plea deal.

It also wouldn't surprise me if Josh were to be hit even harder with charges if he ultimately refuses to plead. How I see it, the whole incentive of a plea deal (for the defendant) is to minimize how much punishment that they're going to get, so it wouldn't be too unusual for a deal to boil down to: if he cops to XYZ crimes then he will be allowed to skate on ABC other crimes that theoretically he could also be held accountable for... and if he refuses to cop to anything, then he's going to be held accountable for both XYZ and ABC, because fuck him.

[Jeeves]

2 minutes ago, rue721 said:

That's a good point.

I expect that ultimately, Josh will plead out, because a trial would be too humiliating and everyone knows that it won't go well. I think they're probably asking for the delay both because that's just an ordinary thing to ask for and because it gives them more time to work out a plea deal.

It also wouldn't surprise me if Josh were to be hit even harder with charges if he ultimately refuses to plead. How I see it, the whole incentive of a plea deal (for the defendant) is to minimize how much punishment that they're going to get, so it wouldn't be too unusual for a deal to boil down to: if he cops to XYZ crimes then he will be allowed to skate on ABC other crimes that theoretically he could also be held accountable for... and if he refuses to cop to anything, then he's going to be held accountable for both XYZ and ABC, because fuck him.

Well, that's interesting. I didn't think the prosecutors would hold back on charging Josh since it doesn't seem like the charges against him are part of a larger investigation (like the college admissions cases), where they could leverage his testimony against others by going soft on the charges against him if he cooperated vs. hammering him if he didn't.

But I'm not involved in federal criminal prosecutions and accept your statement. If the prosecutors are holding back on additional counts, would they have to go through a grand jury indictment process to add those to the pending case? Or do they just file those new charges in the case? If they add counts, I assume that would be grounds for the defense getting a continuance of trial to prepare to defend against those. 

[quarks]

17 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

But that is what happened in the college admissions scandal.   They had the big raid where everyone got arrested (and Lori Loughlin got to fly back from Canada and turn herself in).   Then there was a round of plea deals.   Some took them.   Those who didn't got hit with more charges.  

From my understanding (based largely on following Paul Manafort's federal case), the feds have 30 days to add new charges.

With the college admissions scandal, I may have this wrong, but my understanding was that everyone got arrested in March, and then in April, several people who were not cooperating were hit with additional charges. That was still within the 30 day deadline.

So I think he's unlikely to face new charges - unless he breaks the terms of his confinement or breaks a different law.

Chances of which will increase the longer the trial is delayed. Apart from his long standing habit of trying to see just what he can get away with - which led directly to these charges in the first place - my guess is that he resents having any restrictions, however loosely enforced.  From his perspective, after all, he's Josh Duggar, so either the feds will drop the charges or he'll be found innocent at trial - so since he's not going to be convicted, why should he face any restrictions now? 

I assume his attorneys have explained just why he should face said restrictions now, and Jim Bob and others may have added that if he does go along with said restrictions, he has the option of suing the federal government later - which is an incentive for Josh to play along. But I also think he'll find it increasingly difficult to follow those rules.

5 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

At what point, if any, does the judge/system decide that a defendant needs to find another legal team if the current team is unavailable for the foreseeable future?

Well, they do seem available for the foreseeable future - February.  

Speaking of the college admissions scandal, I just checked. As per Wikipedia, some of those charged pled guilty in May 2019, but weren't formally sentenced until later in 2019 or even in 2020.

A few of the others:

Bill McGlashan - arrested March 2019; pled guilty February 2021; sentenced May 2021

Gamal Aziz - arrested March 2019; pled innocent, no trial as of yet.

Douglas Hodge - arrested March 2019; pled guilty February 2020; served time and released in May 2021.

Mossimo Giannulli - arrested March 2019; pled guilty August 2020; released April 2021.

Obviously these aren't equivalent crimes, but I think this does give a general idea of the timing of federal court cases/plea bargains/sentencing. 

[Nysha]

1 hour ago, beckie said:

Is it possible that Josh thinks that by requesting the delay that he might be released from the Rebers? After all, hes adamant that hes innocent.  

I honestly don't think Josh had any real input in requesting the delay beyond agreeing with his lawyer that it would be a good idea. You'll know that Josh/JB are calling the shots when his competent lawyers are forced to stand back while Travis Story starts doing stupid shit that not only pisses off the judge but increases the chance that Josh goes back to jail until the trial.

[rue721]

12 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I didn't think the prosecutors would hold back on charging Josh since it doesn't seem like the charges against him are part of a larger investigation (like the college admissions cases), where they could leverage his testimony against others by going soft on the charges against him if he cooperated vs. hammering him if he didn't.

I'm no expert either!

I think you could definitely be right, but I think that with something like CSA images there is inevitably a network of people sharing and producing the images, so it's pretty likely that when one member of the network gets caught, that defendant has an opportunity to leverage his info on the larger network in order to get a better plea deal. And the prosecution can diminish that leverage by saying that if he doesn't provide the info, or decides not to plea at all, that he could get hit even harder with charges.

I really don't know what is going to happen, I'm flying as totally blind as anyone -- those just seem like reasonable negotiation tactics, and we've seen them come into play with other public cases.

ETA:

The thing about additional charges in Josh's case is that the charges wouldn't necessarily be about things that happened at the same time as the charges that are already against him. They could be anything. They could even be financial or who knows. For the college admissions scandal, the charges were all about one event (getting X kid into a good college) but with Josh, you know he was doing all kinds of horrible shit at all kinds of random times, additional charges wouldn't necessarily be add-ons to what's already there.

That said, I don't think that he WILL get more charges, I think he'll probably plead out and we will continue to hear very little about what's going on with him aside from the day he's thrown in prison.

Edited June 18, 2021 by rue721

[CouchTater]

1 minute ago, quarks said:

Well, they do seem available for the foreseeable future - February.  

Acknowledged.  I'm just really wondering how far they can go with that.  

If Josh knows he has a July court date, and retains council that isn't available until February, that's acceptable?  Could he have found an attorney that's unavailable even further out, for example?  What's the limit?

*I'm not expecting a definitive answer, I'm just trying to understand this part of the process.  Thanks in advance for any light shed.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

Acknowledged.  I'm just really wondering how far they can go with that.  

If Josh knows he has a July court date, and retains council that isn't available until February, that's acceptable?  Could he have found an attorney that's unavailable even further out, for example?  What's the limit?

*I'm not expecting a definitive answer, I'm just trying to understand this part of the process.  Thanks in advance for any light shed.

It's not in Josh's best interest to go with the lawyer who is not available for trial for the next 2+ years.  He is stuck in a holding pattern right now.  He is fortunate enough to be out on bail, but he must stick to the terms or wind up back in jail.  The longer he waits for his trial to begin, the longer he is bound to those terms.  And if the Rebers decide they can no longer house Josh for six more months, and JB cannot find another stooge willing to take him on, then Josh ends up in jail waiting for his trial.  Pushing the timeline back does not benefit him, the feds ain't going to decide not to prosecute at this point.  He's either going to take a plea deal or go to trial.  

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, scriggle said:

I'm surprised he hasn't violated the terms of his release yet since, y'know, rules don't apply to Duggars. But another six to eight months of being babysat greatly increases the odds of him violating the terms.

I wouldn't be shocked if he'd already committed a small violation or two, but hadn't been caught.  I agree that he doesn't have six to eight months of strict rule following in him unless he's being very closely monitored.

[quarks]

7 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

Acknowledged.  I'm just really wondering how far they can go with that.  

If Josh knows he has a July court date, and retains council that isn't available until February, that's acceptable?  Could he have found an attorney that's unavailable even further out, for example?  What's the limit?

*I'm not expecting a definitive answer, I'm just trying to understand this part of the process.  Thanks in advance for any light shed.

I mean it was for Paul Manafort.

But from what's been said so far, that's not the issue here.  Josh's counsel was and is available in July.  The issue is that counsel is saying that they can't get through all of the discovery documents and have their expert witnesses examine the hard drives by July, and they need another few months to prepare for the case.

Unfortunately, in another few months - the fall - that's when lead counsel isn't available, because of other court cases that were rescheduled because of Covid.

And, honestly, this is not in Josh's favor. It was one thing for all of the college admissions people, who all had luxury homes of their own to stay in while waiting. Josh, staying in a comparatively modest home that he could be kicked out of at any time, not so much.

[3girlsforus]

9 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

If Josh knows he's guilty, the last thing he wants is a speedy trial, and as others have mentioned lawyers like the billable hours. I'm guessing they will try to postpone the trial for as long as possible.

With that said, Josh is still Josh. He may think he'll get away with this and return home, so he may actually want to speed things up.

Isn't the rule of thumb that if the client is out on bail.... postpone, postpone, postpone???

[sue450]

On 6/1/2021 at 7:56 AM, Absolom said:

People have said that before the cast and full crew showed up at places of business that the employees were given sheets of action and dialog of how the scenes were to run.  The shows employ writers.  They definitely know how they want things to go before they begin filming an episode.  Jinger's "proposal" even had the marks on the floor for them. 

  oh this reminds me there was an episode where the duggars were in a aprking lot and they gave a bunch of food  to a very needy family then, when the taping was over they took the food back

 

[Rabbittron]

6 minutes ago, sue450 said:

  oh this reminds me there was an episode where the duggars were in a aprking lot and they gave a bunch of food  to a very needy family then, when the taping was over they took the food back

 

I bet you that the needy family were actors or part of the film crew. 

[JoanArc]

 Six or eight months is enough time for two or three more weddings. I wish I was kidding. 

 

[iwantcookies]

Anna will be pregnant by Xmas. She is probably counting on the days until she births Martyr-Miracle Michelle Duggar and can get pregnant ASAP.

 

 

[sue450]

On 6/11/2021 at 9:35 AM, Crochetlady said:

So is the scum allowed to leave the Rebers house at all? Or is he stuck there until he has to go to court again? Or more to the point, are the Rebers stuck with him 24/7 til his next court date? 

he has an ankle bracelet so he can be tracked

 

[beckie]

54 minutes ago, sue450 said:

he has an ankle bracelet so he can be tracked

 

That doesn't stop some people.  There are ways around it.

[iwantcookies]

1 hour ago, sue450 said:

he has an ankle bracelet so he can be tracked

 

I saw a 20/20 episode where a guy committed a murder while wearing one 

[JoanArc]

 I take it he has no television, Internet, and doesn’t really leave the house much.  Not a lot of socialization either. He gets all his meals. I’m guessing all they left him with is a bible?  Seems like a slightly more comfortable version of prison. 

[iwantcookies]

Maybe Josh got a DVD player to watch movies.

[emmawoodhouse]

20 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

Maybe Josh got a DVD player to watch movies.

Is he going to ask Mrs. Reber to access his Amazon account so he can buy his favorites? 😂

[floridamom]

If Josh's attorneys were going to be that booked up in the future the should have not taken on his case. Attorneys need to be available to the court schedule. Some rescheduling is expected as they do have other clients...but this is suspicious to me.

[zenme]

10 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 I take it he has no television, Internet, and doesn’t really leave the house much.  Not a lot of socialization either. He gets all his meals. I’m guessing all they left him with is a bible?  Seems like a slightly more comfortable version of prison. 

He probably reads all the salacious parts over and over.

[GeeGolly]

I wonder how much Anna knows about the case.

I was thinking about the fact that Josh intentionally circumvented the 'spying eyes' program on his laptop. One would think after Ashley Madison, hiding shit on his computer, even if it was only porn, would be enough for Anna to start packing. I realize all the Gothard/Fundy brainwashing, but at one point the feelings are going to creep in. So even if Anna thinks he's innocent of the charges, Josh is still playing games.

I really wonder what Josh is telling her. I'm guessing she's so desperate to have her life be what she thinks it is, she'll believe anything.

[lookeyloo]

33 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder how much Anna knows about the case.

I was thinking about the fact that Josh intentionally circumvented the 'spying eyes' program on his laptop. One would think after Ashley Madison, hiding shit on his computer, even if it was only porn, would be enough for Anna to start packing. I realize all the Gothard/Fundy brainwashing, but at one point the feelings are going to creep in. So even if Anna thinks he's innocent of the charges, Josh is still playing games.

I really wonder what Josh is telling her. I'm guessing she's so desperate to have her life be what she thinks it is, she'll believe anything.

And also maybe she doesn’t see a way out. There is always a way out although it may be hard, uncomfortable, scary.  Where is @Churchhoney- she has that story of sorts I think. 

[FizzyPuff]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder how much Anna knows about the case.

I was thinking about the fact that Josh intentionally circumvented the 'spying eyes' program on his laptop. One would think after Ashley Madison, hiding shit on his computer, even if it was only porn, would be enough for Anna to start packing. I realize all the Gothard/Fundy brainwashing, but at one point the feelings are going to creep in. So even if Anna thinks he's innocent of the charges, Josh is still playing games.

I really wonder what Josh is telling her. I'm guessing she's so desperate to have her life be what she thinks it is, she'll believe anything.

I actually went back and watched the first and second episode of counting on the other day (I know what’s wrong with me), when Anna was interviewed she said something like: People had every right to think she should leave him but she vowed to God first, then Josh, for better for worse in sicknesses and in health etc and that was basically why she was standing by him. By that statement I don’t think she’ll ever leave him. Maybe when he’s behind bars it may make her rethink her marriage who knows. 

[Joan of Argh]

15 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

I saw a 20/20 episode where a guy committed a murder while wearing one 

I remember that episode, so shocking and sad.

IIRC the parents of the girl who was murdered worked hard to change the laws concerning ankle bracelets and how they’re monitored.

who knows what Josh is up to or how closely he’s being monitored 🙄

[Rabbittron]

1 hour ago, FizzyPuff said:

 Maybe when he’s behind bars it may make her rethink her marriage who knows. 

Knowing her way of thinking this is just a hurdle that God put in her life and when she jumps over it she will be a better Christian because she got over the hurdle. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I just caught this article about a defendant in my area who had similar charges.  It says the FBI searched his devices, but it also says Raleigh PD was involved. I’m try ing to confirm it was in federal court.  Anyway, he initially denied that he viewed the material intentionally, but ended up pleading. He was sentenced to 9 years.  
 

https://www.wral.com/raleigh-man-sentenced-to-9-years-in-prison-for-child-pornography/19729824/

Ok. It was federal. He could gotten 5 to 20 years.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ednc/pr/cameron-hayes-raleigh-indicted-child-pornography-charges

 

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[Rootbeer]

16 hours ago, floridamom said:

If Josh's attorneys were going to be that booked up in the future the should have not taken on his case. Attorneys need to be available to the court schedule. Some rescheduling is expected as they do have other clients...but this is suspicious to me.

COVID has turned the judicial system in this country into a massive traffic jam.  Courts were closed and trials delayed for a year or more in most places.  They are now working to break up the logjam, but it is going to be a year or more before things go back to pre-COVID days; when trials weren't all that speedy, either.

Josh' attorneys are so booked up because all of the cases they should've taken to trial last year are just now coming up.  It's not suspicious, IMO, it's the result of the pandemic.

Also, although Josh' trial date was set for July, even pre-COVID, that is just an estimate.  Trials last as long as they last; the parties involved try to give an accurate estimate beforehand, but it is just an estimate.  They also count on a certain number of pending cases being settled without a trial and sometimes that doesn't happen, either and there are more trials scheduled than there are judges and courtrooms available and things get pushed back.  

When JB hired these attorneys, I doubt Josh had even been charged yet and there was no way to know exactly what the schedule would look like.  The trials in the fall may not have even had a court date back when Josh was arraigned.  His lawyers couldn't have known for sure what was going to happen.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Rootbeer

[emmawoodhouse]

Smuggar wasn't arraigned that long ago. First week of May or thereabouts. I'm sure his lawyers knew their schedule into July then, especially as the courts get back in the swing of doing regular business.

[quarks]

20 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Smuggar wasn't arraigned that long ago. First week of May or thereabouts. I'm sure his lawyers knew their schedule into July then, especially as the courts get back in the swing of doing regular business.

I don't know when Jim Bob hired the attorneys - I'm guessing November 2019, after the car lot was raided, but that's just a guess - or what their schedules were at the time or how many other clients they had. 

But they are available for the July court dates. That's not why they're requesting a continuance. According to them, they need a continuance because:

a) they have still not received all discovery from the prosecution despite multiple requests, even though the trial date is only a few weeks out. 

b) after the arraignment, the government disclosed that a couple of other law enforcement agencies were involved in Josh's arrest - but hasn't given any information about these agencies to the defense. The defense says that this information should be in the discovery, and that they need time to review it. 

c) they have hired an expert forensic witness to examine the hard drive. Because of the nature of the files, the expert forensic witness can only examine the hard drive at a government facility, which takes time to schedule. They say this can't be done by July.  They also say they need more time to examine the other devices seized during the arrest. 

d) If the prosecution forwards the rest of the discovery to them, they can probably be prepared in a few months, but -

e) (this is where the scheduling issues come in) A "few months" is the fall, and lead counsel has four cases that have been scheduled for that period, all pushed back because of Covid.  They are, however, available and ready to go in February. 

Out of curiosity, I went to look at the timelines for some other high-profile, pre-Covid federal cases:

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (Boston Marathon bomber): arrested April 19, 2013; charged April 22, 2013; arraigned July 10, 2013; trial started January 5, 2015; convicted, April 8, 2015, sentenced June 24, 2015. In July 2020 - last year - a federal judge ordered a new trial for the penalty part of his conviction. The U.S. government has appealed that order; in March 2021 -that is, almost eight years after the bombing - the Supreme Court agreed to consider the appeal. They still haven't made a ruling yet. 

Paul Manafort: Arrested October 30, 2017 and indicted; indicted again on separate charges February 22, 2018. On June 8, 2018 the government accused Manafort of continuing to engage in witness tampering after the October arrest, thus violating his bail conditions (pay attention, Josh!), and on July 10, 2018, Manafort was sent back to jail for violating said conditions.  His first trial started July 31, 2018 after being rescheduled several times; he was convicted by a jury on August 2018. 

El Chapo: From the 1980s and onwards, Indicted on numerous, numerous counts from the government of Mexico, the government of the United States, and various city and state governments in the United States and Mexico. After the assassination of a Mexican judge scheduled to hear one of the (many) cases against him, extradited to the United States on January 19, 2017. Trial was initially scheduled to begin on September 5, 2018, but rescheduled for November 5, 2018. Convicted on February 12, 2019. 

And one high profile, post-Covid federal case:

Ghislaine Maxwell: Arrested July 2, 2020. Formal indictment on July 20, 2020. Maxwell's trial was originally scheduled for July 12, 2021. In March 29, 2021, federal prosecutors indicted her on additional charges. Maxwell's attorneys said that they would not be able to review/investigate the new charges by July, and the trial has been rescheduled for November 2021. Maxwell has not been granted bail.

So, based on these and the admissions scandal cases, what we're seeing with Josh Duggar seems pretty typical for high-profile federal cases. Assuming the trial is rescheduled for February, this will still be faster than at least one of the admission scandals cases, the Maxwell case as originally scheduled, and the terrorism/El Chapo cases. The request for additional time to review discovery is similar to what Maxwell's attorneys requested and were granted. The bail conditions were similar to Paul Manafort's. 

So I'm just not seeing anything suspicious here.

What I am seeing is still more reasons for Josh Duggar to take a plea bargain - specifically, multiple examples of people who had skilled, high-powered attorneys and/or extremely high political connections and/or a demonstrated willingness to outright murder witnesses and judges (ok, that's just one person) who still weren't able to evade a federal conviction/jail time. So spending all this money on attorneys for something that looks, frankly, extremely unlikely to happen, while his wife and kids live in a warehouse and one of his siblings lives in a trailer and another lives in a small house with three kids and a fourth on the way -- well. I'm not convinced this is the wisest use of Duggar funds, but that's me. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by quarks
(typo stating that Maxwell was originally scheduled to face trial in July 2020, instead of the actual date of July 2021.)

[Quilt Fairy]

15 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

there are more trials scheduled than there are judges and courtrooms available and things get pushed back.  

How much would his lawyers charge while they are in a holding pattern like this?  Or maybe more accurately, how much work are they doing on his case?  Their computer expert is examining the evidence, so JB is paying for that, but what are the lawyers doing? 

[ginger90]

33 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

How much would his lawyers charge while they are in a holding pattern like this?  Or maybe more accurately, how much work are they doing on his case?  Their computer expert is examining the evidence, so JB is paying for that, but what are the lawyers doing? 

I’m no expert, but they will bill for everything they do. Besides the “big stuff”, phone calls, emails, etc. all billable.

[sue450]

On 6/19/2021 at 9:41 AM, Joan of Argh said:

I remember that episode, so shocking and sad.

IIRC the parents of the girl who was murdered worked hard to change the laws concerning ankle bracelets and how they’re monitored.

who knows what Josh is up to or how closely he’s being monitored 🙄

ohhhhhh this reminds me of another ankle bracelet story...guy being released from prison And (I kid you not) they put the ankle bracelet on his artificial leg (yes you heard me right!)    so  he is at home slips off the artificial leg and the bracelet with it!!!!!!!!! I am sure someone lost a job over that!!!

[Rootbeer]

7 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

I’m no expert, but they will bill for everything they do. Besides the “big stuff”, phone calls, emails, etc. all billable.

EVERYTHING is billable, even phone calls.  And, most law firms bill in 15 minute increments; so a 2 minute phone call to set up a meeting can run $100 or  more. 

It happened to a business I was involved with.  I got a message from the law firm that the lawyer handling a transaction wanted to speak to me personally.  I returned the call and spent maybe a minute and a half with her setting up the date and time.  We were on the same page, no issues with scheduling, literally took a  minute.  Received an invoice at the end of the month charging for 15 minutes' partner time for the call to schedule the meeting which was a 15+ minute paper-signing fest which was also billed at in-person rates and only lasted that long so it could be billed as 30 minutes, I am sure. This is how big time lawyers make bank.

No worries, I am sure JB is receiving several phone calls a week from Smuggar's big time legal team and is paying top dollar for each and every one.  When the lawyers go to Arkansas for appearances, they are on the clock from the moment they leave their homes to go to the airport to fly first class as JB's expense.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Chicklet]

37 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

No worries, I am sure JB is receiving several phone calls a week from Smuggar's big time legal team and is paying top dollar for each and every one.  When the lawyers go to Arkansas for appearances, they are on the clock from the moment they leave their homes to go to the airport to fly first class as JB's expense

Am I a small person who enjoys thinking about JB's shrinking pot of money? Those bills are going to be amazingly huge.

[Rabbittron]

Smuggar will never take a plea deal. After all at least in his mind he is 💯% innocent. 

[merylinkid]

51 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

Am I a small person who enjoys thinking about JB's shrinking pot of money? Those bills are going to be amazingly huge.

This could actually break the family's finances.   Especially with the TLC money drying  up.  Big time lawyers are not cheap.    As noted, everything is billed.   You email me because you had a brilliant idea on how to find your ex's "hidden" money (they ALL think their ex is hiding money even when their ex is making minimum wage at a part time job).   Guess, what I am billing you for that.   You email me 10 times a day -- each ONE of those is a charge.  Guess what client's scream about the most?   "You charge for EMAILS?   How am I supposed to ask questions then?"   You can ask questions not sure why you think you get them answered for free.   ALso, very little of a lawyer's time is spent in court.   Most of the time is spent on paperwork, preparing motions, responding to motions, reviewing expert's reports, reviewing discovery, drafting subpoeanas, taking depositions.   Clients just want to pay for showing up in court, when to be prepared for court requires ALL the other stuff.  All those requests that his attorneys' made for the discovery -- every single one is billable.  

 

ETA:   These lawyers also won't play Head Idiot's games.   They are most likely not Gothardites, or even Fundie.   They owe Head Idiot exactly NOTHING.  They are not beholden to him in any way (unlike the Reibers, and all the other people who knew about Josh for years but didn't speak out for fear of upsetting Head Idiot)   They don't care about Head Idiot's reputation or that Josh is the Chosen One.   They expect to get paid IN FULL.   If Head Idiot starts doing his "Aw shucks, I'm just a poor slob from Arkansas, I ain't got much money" thing and refusing to replenish the retainer, they WILL withdraw.   

Edited June 20, 2021 by merylinkid

[Cinnabon]

20 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

Am I a small person who enjoys thinking about JB's shrinking pot of money? Those bills are going to be amazingly huge.

Nope, it’s hilarious.

[GeeGolly]

I believe JB and Michelle love Josh, I believe they are enablers and I believe they want to save their reputation. But I also believe JB is a tightwad and would never go broke defending Josh (or any of his kids), so I'm guessing there's a cap to what he's willing to spend.

I bet paying off Derick and Jill looks a lot different to JB now. 😁

[YupItsMe]

I agree. Jim Bob is under no obligation to spend his money on Josh’s defense. 

[Zella]

Actual footage of Jim Bob finally looking at all of Josh's legal bills:

[Quof]

2 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

most law firms bill in 15 minute increments

Nope, 6 minute increments, expressed in 0.1 of an hour.