Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Hpmec]

I learned a thing or two about billing for professional services when I called my mom's doctor to discuss her condition and ended up with an unexpected bill for $250.00 for that 10 minute conversation. I'm sure The Pest's lawyers will keep track of every minute devoted to the case and will charge for everything. When those big bills start rolling in, Boob may reconsider the advantages of a plea deal. 

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Hpmec

[irisheyes]

I think there’s plenty of money to pay for Josh’s defense. JB has got money stashed in various places. The people who are going to be hurting are the other kids. The howlers better learn how to hold down some gainful employment soon. 

[BigBingerBro]

10 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

I think there’s plenty of money to pay for Josh’s defense

Exactly, he just needs to sell off a few of his properties.

[Absolom]

14 minutes ago, Hpmec said:

I learned a thing or two about billing for professional services when I called my mom's doctor to discuss her condition and ended up with an unexpected bill for $250.00 for that 10 minute conversation. I'm sure The Pest's lawyers will keep track of every minute devoted to the case and will charge for everything. When those big bills start rolling in, Boob may reconsider the advantages of a plea deal. 

I fully expect at some point JB is going to figure out he's wasting money.  If the lawyer is decent, at some point he will either find something he thinks stands a reasonable chance of defeating the charges or he'll recommend that Josh plead guilty.  JB's problem is that he isn't the client and Josh may decide not to plea against the lawyer's advice.  JB is going to have to make sure Josh doesn't play him or that his good friend Travis Stork momentarily forgets his ethics.  

[quarks]

18 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

I think there’s plenty of money to pay for Josh’s defense. JB has got money stashed in various places. The people who are going to be hurting are the other kids. The howlers better learn how to hold down some gainful employment soon. 

The money might be there, sure, but there's a difference between "I have the money" and "I want to waste it on a trial for Josh that has at best an uncertain outcome."

[JoanArc]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

Actual footage of Jim Bob finally looking at all of Josh's legal bills:

 Poetic justice.  Exploiting  his children gave him a fortune, now defending his hideous mistake of a child is going to drain every penny back out.

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

 Poetic justice.  Exploiting  his children gave him a fortune, now defending his hideous mistake of a child is going to drain every penny back out.

In terms Boob would understand: The Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away... 😂

Edited June 21, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[cereality]

Interesting how the Josh arrest was close to Mother’s Day and the kids seemed pissed enough to say nothing - at least the older daughters. At the 11th hr Jana and Jinger posted one old pic with Michelle and basically said nothing. Contrast Father’s Day - greetings (pics and words) from Jana, Jinger, Joy Ann and even a few brothers got in on it - Justin and Jed. Jill made a whole IG post with 10 pics of Derick and then just threw in a happy Father’s Day dad. So she’s still the least interested. Jessa seems to have sat the whole thing out but she didn’t say anything to Ben either.

So are the kids holding more of a grudge against Michelle than JB for enabling Josh?! I mean they both enabled yet they suck up to daddy??

 

 

[emmawoodhouse]

2 minutes ago, cereality said:

Interesting how the Josh arrest was close to Mother’s Day and the kids seemed pissed enough to say nothing - at least the older daughters. At the 11th hr Jana and Jinger posted one old pic with Michelle and basically said nothing. Contrast Father’s Day - greetings (pics and words) from Jana, Jinger, Joy Ann and even a few brothers got in on it - Justin and Jed. Jill made a whole IG post with 10 pics of Derick and then just threw in a happy Father’s Day dad. So she’s still the least interested. Jessa seems to have sat the whole thing out but she didn’t say anything to Ben either.

So are the kids holding more of a grudge against Michelle than JB for enabling Josh?! I mean they both enabled yet they suck up to daddy??

 

 

They have to suck up to Daddy in hopes of getting a slice of the pie before Smuggar's case eats it all up.

Edited June 21, 2021 by emmawoodhouse
Rogue comma!

[GeeGolly]

The Duggar family, minus Jill and Jinger, all were radio silent immediately following Josh's arrest, but for their statements. Can't say that I blame them. After Scandals 1 & 2, they were all beat up by the trolliest of trolls. Anna went months or maybe even a year before she posted again, back then. I think the fact that the Vuolos, Seewalds and Forsyths put out statements quieted down the trolls this time, but they still all waited a week or two before they posted on SM.

I don't think any of the kids blame their parents for Josh's misdeeds - even Jill. They likely feel bad for JB & M and mad at Josh. Or mad at the evil heathens for going after their 'innocent' brother. 

[Albanyguy]

7 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

In terms Boob would understand: The Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away... 😂

"But...but...but...I'm Jim Bob Duggar! The Lord ain't supposed to TAKE AWAY!"

[lascuba]

12 hours ago, Absolom said:

I fully expect at some point JB is going to figure out he's wasting money.  If the lawyer is decent, at some point he will either find something he thinks stands a reasonable chance of defeating the charges or he'll recommend that Josh plead guilty.  JB's problem is that he isn't the client and Josh may decide not to plea against the lawyer's advice.  JB is going to have to make sure Josh doesn't play him or that his good friend Travis Stork momentarily forgets his ethics.  

I don't know how the billing works with lawyers--do they demand payment after a certain amount of time before continuing working on the case or do they present the bill at the end? I ask, because I could totally see JB refusing to pay at the end of the trial. He's used to working with fellow fundies who let him get away with his grifting. It's going to be interesting if he attempts it with a (presumably) non-fundie lawyer.

[ginger90]

1 minute ago, lascuba said:

I don't know how the billing works with lawyers--do they demand payment after a certain amount of time before continuing working on the case or do they present the bill at the end? I ask, because I could totally see JB refusing to pay at the end of the trial. He's used to working with fellow fundies who let him get away with his grifting. It's going to be interesting if he attempts it with a (presumably) non-fundie lawyer.

I’m sure he’s paid a hefty retainer fee.

[Future Cat Lady]

I guess everything depends on how much JB is willing to pay and save face. Josh may be the client but he doesn’t have the money to pay for these lawyers.

[ozziemom]

27 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I don't know how the billing works with lawyers--do they demand payment after a certain amount of time before continuing working on the case or do they present the bill at the end? I ask, because I could totally see JB refusing to pay at the end of the trial. He's used to working with fellow fundies who let him get away with his grifting. It's going to be interesting if he attempts it with a (presumably) non-fundie lawyer.

In a case like this there would have been a substantial retainer paid before the lawyer did anything. Then monthly or even weekly billing detailing every minute spent on Josh. And they would expect timely payment.

[beckie]

58 minutes ago, ozziemom said:

In a case like this there would have been a substantial retainer paid before the lawyer did anything. Then monthly or even weekly billing detailing every minute spent on Josh. And they would expect timely payment.

If they couldn't (or refused to) pay the lawyer from here on out, could Josh be thrown back in jail??

[Tikichick]

15 minutes ago, beckie said:

If they couldn't (or refused to) pay the lawyer from here on out, could Josh be thrown back in jail??

The lawyer would likely file a motion with the court to withdraw and they would have a hearing.  The judge would either grant the motion or deny it.  None of it would directly impact Josh's custodial status.

[merylinkid]

2 hours ago, lascuba said:

I ask, because I could totally see JB refusing to pay at the end of the trial.

It aint' just Head Idiot.   Most criminal defense lawyers learn REALLY QUICK, get the money up front.   If your client is convicted, they don't want to pay because its your fault you didn't get them off.   If they aren't convicted, they don't want to pay because they were innocent all along.   

There will be a retainer with a requirement that it be refreshed periodically at a certain amount so there is always enough money to get through a trial rather than go to monthly billing and wind up having to do a trial for free.   

As for the increments that attorneys bill in, some do 15 minutes, some do  six minutes.   It just depends on the lawyer's preference.    I personally think billing 15 minutes for one email is ridiculous.   But break it down.   Say the lawyers are charging $600 an hour (sounds about right for Arkansas also makes the math easier, DC lawyers are heading into $1000 an hour).    If you bill in 6 minute increments, one email is $60, if you bill in 15 minutes, one email is $150.    That adds up pretty fast.  10 emails a month $600 (6 minutes) $1500 (15 minutes).    And 10 emails a month is nothing in a case like this.

Edited June 21, 2021 by merylinkid

[lascuba]

18 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

The lawyer would likely file a motion with the court to withdraw and they would have a hearing.  The judge would either grant the motion or deny it.  None of it would directly impact Josh's custodial status.

How likely is it that a judge would deny a motion to withdraw for lack of payment? I find it fascinating that a judge could essentially order a lawyer to work for free.

[Tikichick]

Just now, lascuba said:

How likely is it that a judge would deny a motion to withdraw for lack of payment? I find it fascinating that a judge could essentially order a lawyer to work for free.

I haven't a clue what the norms are in the federal arena.   Judge's in general are very likely take a dim view of the notion of ordering an attorney to work for free because it would be very destabilizing for the system as a whole.

IMO I am very skeptical of the idea that there are skirmishes taking place in Josh's camp about legal bills.   I don't doubt JB is suffering serious sticker shock, but that would have been explained in detail some time back after the raid when JB's stooges informed him Josh needed real representation and potential candidates were consulted and finances were no doubt thoroughly covered.   I think it's far more likely that any skirmishes will take place surrounding taking a plea, negotiating for a plea deal, accepting or rejecting offers, etc.    It's not entirely intuitive who might advocate for making and taking a plea and who (and why) might be insistent that the matter must be taken to the jury for a full hearing.   It's likely Josh and family approached the legal team search with the idea of finding the team who offered the greatest likelihood of either quashing the evidence or the charges, or ultimately winning if things should get that far.   At this point the attorney has no doubt had a team poring over every aspect of the investigation and charges and now will also be looking to loop in experts to review the actual evidence and see what if anything can be taken from the prosecution's use.

Once all of those maneuvers have run their course it will be time to make the last call on all aspects surrounding taking a plea or not.   If I had to guess ultimately this will go down to a plea deal because it will serve as more of a tourniquet in regards to stemming the bleeding and protecting whatever image JB and the family overall have left because it will shorten the news cycle on extremely graphic details.  

[Hpmec]

5 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I guess everything depends on how much JB is willing to pay and save face. Josh may be the client but he doesn’t have the money to pay for these lawyers.

Josh doesn't have the money to buy his kids a Happy Meal at McDonalds. At some point Boob is going to pull the plug on him and he's going to find himself represented by a Public Defender. Or, if he really wants to play the stupid card, he'll ask the judge if he can represent himself. 

[MargeGunderson]

I wonder how much of a betting man JB is, if he lets this play out in court or tries to force Josh to take a plea. I can’t see either JB or Josh going for a plea deal, they are both too invested in the good Christian family image (and Josh is too arrogant). I think they will ride the Josh is innocent line as long and as far as possible. 

[Hpmec]

7 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

I wonder how much of a betting man JB is, if he lets this play out in court or tries to force Josh to take a plea. I can’t see either JB or Josh going for a plea deal, they are both too invested in the good Christian family image (and Josh is too arrogant). I think they will ride the Josh is innocent line as long and as far as possible. 

It all depends on how much money Boob is willing to part with to defend him. He's certainly well off, but he already has a shitload of expenses. Numerous children, spouses of children, and grandchildren to house and feed. And more grandkids keep coming down the assembly line all the time. Property tax bills on multiple properties. Health insurance premiums and medical and dental care for everybody. Clothing. Utilities. Transportation. Accountants to be paid. Josh's defense could easily run into the tens of thousands, and who knows how much longer TLC will keep the Duggar clan around. This situation is a messy one for Boob. He has to weigh prioritizing paying for expensive legal help for his scumbag son against the reality it may all be futile. Meantime, all of the other routine bills and expenses aren't going anywhere, and sooner or later he's going to find himself in some pretty deep financial shit. 

[ginger90]

Has anyone that’s able, seen any selling  of property recently?

[Scarlett45]

5 minutes ago, Hpmec said:

Josh's defense could easily run into the tens of thousands, and who knows how much longer TLC will keep the Duggar clan around. This situation is a messy one for Boob. He has to weigh prioritizing paying for expensive legal help for his scumbag son against the reality it may all be futile. Meantime, all of the other routine bills and expenses aren't going anywhere, and sooner or later he's going to find himself in some pretty deep financial shit. 

I would say the 10s of thousands is a very conservative financial estimate. 

I agree, JB has a lot of bodies and expenses to cover, and there will be a point where Josh's legal bills will slip lower and lower on the priority list.

[MargeGunderson]

I think that a rational person would agree with you both, @Hpmec and @Scarlett45, but is JB that logical? Plus, if Josh is convicted I think that is the death knell for the TLC show. So does he spend the money on the trial and hope that Josh isn’t convicted and they keep the show, or hang Josh out to dry and go for the forgiveness/redemption/it happens in all good families angle? Whichever way they go, it’s going to be a wild ride.

Edited June 21, 2021 by MargeGunderson

[Future Cat Lady]

To be honest, I want a trial to see what some of the shit that would come out of it.

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I would say the 10s of thousands is a very conservative financial estimate. 

I agree, JB has a lot of bodies and expenses to cover, and there will be a point where Josh's legal bills will slip lower and lower on the priority list.

The fee for the expert to go over the devices and the electronic evidence will run in the tens of thousands alone.

If anyone is familiar with Making a Murderer on Netflix there was an expert who was featured that went over tech evidence in that case and I know for a fact his fees run well into five figures.   It's going to be very expensive to turn over every rock in Josh's case in the hope there is some way to toss the evidence outright.   As a backup the expert will likely testify to muddy the waters with the jury in any way possible.  

[Cinnabon]

2 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

The fee for the expert to go over the devices and the electronic evidence will run in the tens of thousands alone.

If anyone is familiar with Making a Murderer on Netflix there was an expert who was featured that went over tech evidence in that case and I know for a fact his fees run well into five figures.   It's going to be very expensive to turn over every rock in Josh's case in the hope there is some way to toss the evidence outright.   As a backup the expert will likely testify to muddy the waters with the jury in any way possible.  

Can you imagine being the “expert” who is paid to watch hours of violent child porn (including an infant in this case 🥲) to try and assist Josh in getting away with it? Selling their soul.

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

To be honest, I want a trial to see what some of the shit that would come out of it.

I doubt it would be very surprising. Given what they were looking for and what they seem to have found, I don't think we'd learn anything other than that Josh craves spending as many hours of his life as possible watching helpless people, especially women and girls, humiliated and victimized -- perhaps to death -- in brutal, nasty, mean, often sexual ways. And that he mainly looks for that on video because it seems like the safest and easiest way to get his chosen "thrill." Plus, you can watch it again, 

While he rubs his dick. And we probably wouldn't even find out the "rubs his dick" part. 

The crimes he's being prosecuted for are truly horrible and truly mundane at the same time, I expect. Seems like he just sneaked around a lot -- in entirely predictable ways and while pretending to be at "work" -- and downloaded the exact same ugly videos many many other guys around the world have been downloading for years because they, too, get off on physical cruelty. 

Me big man. Me feel way sexy, get big hard-on when me watch others be hurt. 

But me not big enough man to face up to what I've done and plead guilty.

I'd rather let my entire family be bankrupted and dragged through many more months of shit in a vain attempt to "prove" that I'm "innocent." Even though I know perfectly well that I'm not. Still want to convince everybody that some "convict" did this! 

I'm pretty sure we wouldn't find out anything that we don't know already. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Jynnan tonnix]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I doubt it would be very surprising. Given what they were looking for and what they seem to have found, I don't think we'd learn anything other than that Josh craves spending as many hours of his life as possible watching helpless people, especially women and girls, humiliated and victimized -- perhaps to death -- in brutal, nasty, mean, often sexual ways. And that he mainly looks for that on video because it seems like the safest and easiest way to get his chosen "thrill." Plus, you can watch it again, 

While he rubs his dick. And we probably wouldn't even find out the "rubs his dick" part. 

The crimes he's being prosecuted for are truly horrible and truly mundane at the same time, I expect. Seems like he just sneaked around a lot -- in entirely predictable ways and while pretending to be at "work" -- and downloaded the exact same ugly videos many many other guys around the world have been downloading for years because they, too, get off on physical cruelty. 

Me big man. Me feel way sexy, get big hard-on when me watch others be hurt. 

But me not big enough man to face up to what I've done and plead guilty.

I'd rather let my entire family be bankrupted and dragged through many more months of shit in a vain attempt to "prove" that I'm "innocent." Even though I know perfectly well that I'm not. Still want to convince everybody that some "convict" did this! 

I'm pretty sure we wouldn't find out anything that we don't know already. 

I really wanted to give this one the "cry" emoji, but you stated it so well that I have to "like" it. We should have another one for "brilliantly stated".

[Westiepeach]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I doubt it would be very surprising. Given what they were looking for and what they seem to have found, I don't think we'd learn anything other than that Josh craves spending as many hours of his life as possible watching helpless people, especially women and girls, humiliated and victimized -- perhaps to death -- in brutal, nasty, mean, often sexual ways. And that he mainly looks for that on video because it seems like the safest and easiest way to get his chosen "thrill." Plus, you can watch it again, 

While he rubs his dick. And we probably wouldn't even find out the "rubs his dick" part. 

The crimes he's being prosecuted for are truly horrible and truly mundane at the same time, I expect. Seems like he just sneaked around a lot -- in entirely predictable ways and while pretending to be at "work" -- and downloaded the exact same ugly videos many many other guys around the world have been downloading for years because they, too, get off on physical cruelty. 

Me big man. Me feel way sexy, get big hard-on when me watch others be hurt. 

But me not big enough man to face up to what I've done and plead guilty.

I'd rather let my entire family be bankrupted and dragged through many more months of shit in a vain attempt to "prove" that I'm "innocent." Even though I know perfectly well that I'm not. Still want to convince everybody that some "convict" did this! 

I'm pretty sure we wouldn't find out anything that we don't know already. 

I want to love this and hate this at the same time.

[BigBingerBro]

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Woohoo!

One thing that definitely was not in Joshley's favor, I expect, is that his is just one of many many many many very very very similar cases that have been moving through that district over the past few years (and continue to). All the cases, including his, have probably been handled in virtually identical ways and by the same people. This argument they've made suggests that he's some kind of special snowflake who's being especially disadvantaged by the process. But it was the same process that they're using over and over again. And so the judges have seen it over and over again. So all the disadvantages to Josh that the legal team has intimated may be in there -- uh, nope. 

[emmawoodhouse]

Love how they cut the continuance time in half! I hope the judge rules in their favor. 

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Love how they cut the continuance time in half! I hope the judge rules in their favor. 

Seems like the prosecution is ready to go.  Of course, I think some of us here were speculating that Josh's lawyers asked for 8 months knowing that they'd maybe get half of that.

In any event, glad to see the prosecution is holding firm.

[Absolom]

It's all proceeding as expected so far.  But then both sides know how the game is played.

[Cinnabon]

14 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Woohoo!

One thing that definitely was not in Joshley's favor, I expect, is that his is just one of many many many many very very very similar cases that have been moving through that district over the past few years (and continue to). All the cases, including his, have probably been handled in virtually identical ways and by the same people. This argument they've made suggests that he's some kind of special snowflake who's being especially disadvantaged by the process. But it was the same process that they're using over and over again. And so the judges have seen it over and over again. So all the disadvantages to Josh that the legal team has intimated may be in there -- uh, nope. 

Why are they saying Josh is especially disadvantaged?

[Tdoc72]

19 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

"But...but...but...I'm Jim Bob Duggar! The Lord ain't supposed to TAKE AWAY!"

“I gave you 19 arrows!”

[GeeGolly]

I would like Josh to take a plea deal, as long as its not an Alford plea. I have no desire to know any more details than have already been released. Like many of you already mentioned, Josh now has to follow the rules of his house arrest until October, which he'll likely violate. Lets just get him in jail for the next decade or so and forget he exists.

Edited June 22, 2021 by GeeGolly

[Churchhoney]

12 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Why are they saying Josh is especially disadvantaged?

I could easily be wrong about this, but I get the impression that they'd like people to think that his fame may have led to him getting railroaded. 

EMLTA: ...my annoyance about the amount of time they tried to demand is just based on how many virtually identical cases to Josh's have been brought and ended with convictions or -- mostly, looks like -- pleas in this same district over the past few years......But, oh, no, they think they should be able to hold things up for the better part of a year because in his case it's likely that all the evidence has been so botched...So to me, because of all the other cases, that suggests that they're arguing that his is different. And their constant claims to be different and better piss me off.....especially here. So -- blame my paranoid suspicions about what they're claiming on my having read through the press releases in their district about the outcomes of other local cases just like this over the past few years!

 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Churchhoney

[floridamom]

Has anyone figured out how much money JB & Michelle will be collecting from the child-stimulus payments every month for each child under 18 they have at home? Anna will get money for her 7 soon. Perhaps that will be Josh's defense fund. Under normal circumstances, Jim Bob does not need that check from the government but he will get it any way.

[lascuba]

53 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Has anyone figured out how much money JB & Michelle will be collecting from the child-stimulus payments every month for each child under 18 they have at home? Anna will get money for her 7 soon. Perhaps that will be Josh's defense fund. Under normal circumstances, Jim Bob does not need that check from the government but he will get it any way.

And he will publicly rail against the government giving out the money while happily cashing the check.

Even with all the minor children, I wouldn't think it would be enough to cover his defense. Though I'd bet JB will demand Anna hand over that money.

Edited June 22, 2021 by lascuba

[Rootbeer]

13 minutes ago, lascuba said:

And he will publicly rail against the government giving out the money while happily cashing the check.

Even with all the minor children, I wouldn't think it would be enough to cover his defense. Though I'd bet JB will demand Anna hand over that money.

The child tax credit is $250-300 per kid and will be going out mid July.  Counting Tyler, JB has 6 minor kids still at home, same as Anna.  So, at most, they will get a combined $3600 in tax credits.

Josh' big time lawyer wouldn't get out of bed for less than $10 grand.  His retainer is probably more than $3600 and JB would be expected to keep replenishing it as they go and/or pay all costs as they are incurred.  The tax credit money is a drop in the bucket.  The lawyer has probably already billed well into 5 figures so far and there is nowhere to go but up.

[peppergal]

18 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Can you imagine being the “expert” who is paid to watch hours of violent child porn (including an infant in this case 🥲) to try and assist Josh in getting away with it? Selling their soul.

I agree with the selling their soul part.  But I get the feeling that the defense angle here is not to dispute the content of the downloads, but to dispute the details that can more easily confuse a jury by burying them in tech speak:  when it was downloaded, by whom it was downloaded, was it ever watched/accessed and if so when, what other electronic devices were in the area, that kind of thing.  So the expert likely isn't needing to watch the actual video, other than a few seconds to verify it is the right file.  Instead they will be looking for details on the file system itself to try to disprove the government's claims that Josh was the one who downloaded and/or watched the filth on a specific date.  I still couldn't do it though.

 

 

[hathorlive]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I would like Josh to take a plea deal, as long as its not an Alford plea. I have no desire to know any more details than have already been released. Like many of you already mentioned, Josh now has to follow the rules of his house arrest until October, which he'll likely violate. Lets just get him in jail for the next decade or so and forget he exists.

The government will not even entertain an Alford plea.  I can't imagine them offering much of a plea deal, regarding less time.  They have him nailed to the wall and there's no reason to not go to court.

[GeeGolly]

6 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

The government will not even entertain an Alford plea.  I can't imagine them offering much of a plea deal, regarding less time.  They have him nailed to the wall and there's no reason to not go to court.

To quote Jill, YAY!!

[hathorlive]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

To quote Jill, YAY!!

I also really want a trial.  I know from first hand experience that once those videos are discussed/viewed, people will never look at Josh the same way.  Including, I hope his family. I'm sure the defense will do their best to say someone else did it, the wireless connection was open with no security (we always check this when we first get on site).  But most of that stuff is empty gestures.  The iPhone geo location is going to bury him.

The lawyer is bleeding and pleading as we speak.  

[MargeGunderson]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

To quote Jill, YAY!!

Yay indeed. I want to see if the defense tries to blame it on someone else, specifically another Duggar male who had access to the car lot. The defense wouldn’t have to prove definitively that someone else had done it, just that Josh wasn’t the only one who could have done it; in other words convince the jury that there was reasonable doubt that it was Josh. Would JB and Josh drag another Duggar into this mess to save Josh? My money is on yes. Better to taint another Duggar with the possibility than make Josh take responsibility for his actions. 

[FizzyPuff]

27 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Yay indeed. I want to see if the defense tries to blame it on someone else, specifically another Duggar male who had access to the car lot. The defense wouldn’t have to prove definitively that someone else had done it, just that Josh wasn’t the only one who could have done it; in other words convince the jury that there was reasonable doubt that it was Josh. Would JB and Josh drag another Duggar into this mess to save Josh? My money is on yes. Better to taint another Duggar with the possibility than make Josh take responsibility for his actions. 

I would really hope that somewhere inside JB would be really disgusted at Josh trying to bring down another family member.