Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[FizzyPuff]

I genuinely wonder what is going through the Keller parents heads? Do they still think Anna should stand by Josh after everything? I don’t have any children but surely they must have doubts about Anna staying with him. If Anna was my daughter I’d be so disturbed and do all I can to get her away from him. How do they justify Josh hurting Anna over and over again never mind his crimes. Even if they don’t care about Anna surely they care about their grandkids? These people are just so odd going on about children being a blessing from god but when children are abused they cover it up. 

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, FizzyPuff said:

These people are just so odd going on about children being a blessing from god but when children are abused they cover it up. 

I don't find them odd as much as I find them blatantly, always and everywhere, arrogant and totally self-serving. 

Both these things serve those purposes beautifully.

"I/he have/has SO many children and that proves God is BLESSING me/him because I'm/he's so GREAT!!!!   

"And child abuse NEVER happens in our group! Because God blesses us because WE'RE SO GREAT!!!! And if it somehow did in some minor way at some point, we'd certainly never tell YOU HEATHENS about it because doing that might make you cast aspersions on our GOD, which would be totally UNFAIR because this was just a fluke because WE and OUR GOD are SO GREAT!!!! What's REALLY HAPPENING is that we're being afflicted with this by the DEVIL BECAUSE HE KNOWS WE'RE HELPING GOD WIN THE WORLD AWAY FROM YOU HEATHENS and SATAN's AFFLICTED US WITH THIS TO MAKE US LOSE OUR FOCUS ON THAT BECAUSE WE'RE SO GREAT!!!!" 

That's the extent of their "logic" and "faith," across the board and not just in this instance, if you ask me. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Churchhoney

[JoanArc]

4 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

Probably, but people have been praying with and at Josh most of his life, and it hasn't done much good. 

 At this point he might as well just admit that he doesn’t believe this shit, he never believed this shit, and he will never believe this shit.  

[BradandJanet]

2 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 At this point he might as well just admit that he doesn’t believe this shit, he never believed this shit, and he will never believe this shit.  

I don't see Josh as a true believer, but he's probably afraid of losing his expensive lawyers if he doesn't pretend. JB is concerned about the family brand, and Josh has already done considerable damage. 

[GeeGolly]

6 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 At this point he might as well just admit that he doesn’t believe this shit, he never believed this shit, and he will never believe this shit.  

He's probably scrambling to believe it now.

[JoanArc]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

He's probably scrambling to believe it now.

 I doubt it. He’s just getting better at putting the mask on. He knows Jim Bob has to defend him no matter what,  and Anna and the kids will likely be taken care of for all time. So behind closed doors it’s not like he has to fake it anymore. 

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 I doubt it. He’s just getting better at putting the mask on. He knows Jim Bob has to defend him no matter what,  and Anna and the kids will likely be taken care of for all time. So behind closed doors it’s not like he has to fake it anymore. 

I meant more like out of desperation... please, God, please, keep me out of jail.

[JoanArc]

40 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I meant more like out of desperation... please, God, please, keep me out of jail.

 I honestly wonder if it has ‘Hit’ him yet.  Does he realize the kind of trouble he’s in? I mean really realize? Seriously, he has been insulated from every sort of punishment they would happen to a ‘Regular’ person. Three decades of getting off Scott free or getting off super easy can really warp a person’s thinking.  All daddy’s lawyers have to do is put enough of a kernel of doubt in a jury’s mind and he’s right back to the life he was living before. Right back to masturbating in the carlot shed, five meals a day, being the golden child. 

 Either that, or he’s planning a way of escaping before the trial. I wouldn’t put that past him or anyone else. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don’t life situation.

[merylinkid]

How much was his bond?  Low enough that Head Idiot would be okay with him having a calling to set up a ministry in a country without extradition?

[GeeGolly]

43 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 I honestly wonder if it has ‘Hit’ him yet.  Does he realize the kind of trouble he’s in? I mean really realize? Seriously, he has been insulated from every sort of punishment they would happen to a ‘Regular’ person. Three decades of getting off Scott free or getting off super easy can really warp a person’s thinking.  All daddy’s lawyers have to do is put enough of a kernel of doubt in a jury’s mind and he’s right back to the life he was living before. Right back to masturbating in the carlot shed, five meals a day, being the golden child. 

 Either that, or he’s planning a way of escaping before the trial. I wouldn’t put that past him or anyone else. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don’t life situation.

For the molestations it was church elders and family friends who punished him. For Ashley Madison it was the court of public opinion and a civil suit.

This time it is the Feds charging him. He will have to go to court if he doesn't plead. So I think he might be taking this a little more seriously. Maybe.

 

[Tabbygirl521]

7 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

Probably, but people have been praying with and at Josh most of his life, and it hasn't done much good. 

Just thinking about what his days might be like…eat, pray, rinse, repeat

[Cinnabon]

3 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 At this point he might as well just admit that he doesn’t believe this shit, he never believed this shit, and he will never believe this shit.  

I would have the tiniest bit of respect for him if he did say that.

[Quilt Fairy]

2 hours ago, merylinkid said:

How much was his bond?  Low enough that Head Idiot would be okay with him having a calling to set up a ministry in a country without extradition?

IIRC, there was no bond required because these are federal charges. 

[BradandJanet]

3 hours ago, merylinkid said:

How much was his bond?  Low enough that Head Idiot would be okay with him having a calling to set up a ministry in a country without extradition?

Escaping to a "friendly" country that wants a child abuser with the Feds on his tail would be difficult and expensive. His passport would be flagged at the airport and he'd be off to jail immediately. He would have to arrange some kind of transfer involving shady people and lots of money.  I suppose he could end up like Jullian Assange hiding in embassies until getting kicked out, but Josh Duggar is a backwoods nobody. Who would risk a tangle with American federal law enforcement for him?

[Spazamanaz]

And isn't he wearing an ankle monitor? Or am I mistaken?

[ginger90]

10 minutes ago, Spazamanaz said:

And isn't he wearing an ankle monitor? Or am I mistaken?

That was one of the stipulations of his release, a GPS tracking device.

Edited June 27, 2021 by ginger90

[JoanArc]

28 minutes ago, BradandJanet said:

Escaping to a "friendly" country that wants a child abuser with the Feds on his tail would be difficult and expensive.

 Yeah, you have to own your own personal aircraft, and have a willing pilot....

[BigBingerBro]

3 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 Yeah, you have to own your own personal aircraft, and have a willing pilot....

Which they basically do have

[crazy8s]

It seems one of the conditions was he had to hand over his passport and agree not to apply for another one.

 

[BradandJanet]

16 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 Yeah, you have to own your own personal aircraft, and have a willing pilot....

It's a start, but the plane has to be able to fly far enough to get somewhere suitable and then be able to land and have the fugitive taken to a safe house. I don't suspect JB is above paying bribes, but there's huge blackmail potential on this one. And then poor Josh will be mostly stuck inside like he is now. At least, he might have unfettered access to the Internet to pass the time. 

My knowledge about these things comes from television, movies, and crime novels, by the way. 

[JoanArc]

2 minutes ago, BradandJanet said:

My knowledge about these things comes from television, movies, and crime novels, by the way. 

Mine too. I was merely speculating. They certainly have taken the plane out of the country before, so that is no big deal. But I can’t really see any of the family risking themselves to spirit Josh away. Well, unless JB gave them an ultimatum.   I’m sure it will go bad as well as any of Josh’s other plans. He would get away, live in some safe house in the US, then smugly walk into a Chick-fil-A a few months later and wonder why he’s getting busted.

On another note, I read where Mr. Query (sp?),  One of their old family friends, mentioned in a tweet about using a Linux partition on his computer. I wonder how farspread evading covenant eyes has gotten. Probably pretty far with this bunch of men. 

[Showthyme]

Maybe Josh would rather go to prison than to pretend to be a practicing Christian and faithful husband for another day.

I hope that he goes to prison for a long time.

[GeeGolly]

Will Josh end up in a cushy camp for adults type prison? Or will it be a scary and cold place for hardened criminals?

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Will Josh end up in a cushy camp for adults type prison? Or will it be a scary and cold place for hardened criminals?

To my knowledge, if he’s convicted, and sentenced to serve more than 10 years, he won’t be eligible for a camp.

As a sex offender, he also would not be eligible for a camp.

Edited June 28, 2021 by ginger90

[Kellyee]

Quote

Will Josh end up in a cushy camp for adults type prison? Or will it be a scary and cold place for hardened criminals?

I thought most sex offenders ended up in segregation. So he'd be in a small cell alone for something like 23 hours a day. If he gets a 10 year sentence of that, I really think that's worse than the death penalty. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rabbittron]

4 hours ago, ginger90 said:

To my knowledge, if he’s convicted, and sentenced to serve more than 10 years, he won’t be eligible for a camp.

As a sex offender, he also would not be eligible for a camp.

They have been housing a lot of sex criminals in the Englewood Colorado country club prison. 

[Hpmec]

16 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

Which they basically do have

I'm confident this scenario (flying him out of the country on a private plane) has crossed Boob's feeble mind. However, it would bring a ton of unwanted negative publicity that would make it into the mainstream.  I think Boob would rather have Josh fight the charges and, if convicted, file appeal after appeal claiming he is being prosecuted and persecuted for his strong Christian beliefs. The true fundie believers who love the Duggars would buy it, and the vast majority of people who have zero interest in the Duggars don't know or care at all about Josh anyway. Ultimately, Boob's #1 goal is to keep the Counting On franchise going with the other kids, and he'll do whatever it takes to keep that gravy train of Duggar fans chugging along.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Hpmec

[libgirl2]

I honestly think Josh is not much of a believer. I think he claims to be one because he is treated like royalty. As a male, he can have final say in everything over women. He probably also thinks because he claims to be a believer, he is free from any punishment for his wrong doings. 

[FizzyPuff]

22 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

For the molestations it was church elders and family friends who punished him. For Ashley Madison it was the court of public opinion and a civil suit.

This time it is the Feds charging him. He will have to go to court if he doesn't plead. So I think he might be taking this a little more seriously. Maybe.

 

Didn’t the church elders insist Josh go to get help with other kids at a sexual abuse facility and boob was having none of it? Is this when they left that church? If only Josh had got proper help then. 

18 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

Escaping to a "friendly" country that wants a child abuser with the Feds on his tail would be difficult and expensive. His passport would be flagged at the airport and he'd be off to jail immediately. He would have to arrange some kind of transfer involving shady people and lots of money.  I suppose he could end up like Jullian Assange hiding in embassies until getting kicked out, but Josh Duggar is a backwoods nobody. Who would risk a tangle with American federal law enforcement for him?

I don’t think it would ever occur to Josh to escape, he’s gonna go to court and be found not guilty because he is innocent 🙄

[Tabbygirl521]

17 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Mine too. I was merely speculating. They certainly have taken the plane out of the country before, so that is no big deal. But I can’t really see any of the family risking themselves to spirit Josh away. Well, unless JB gave them an ultimatum.   I’m sure it will go bad as well as any of Josh’s other plans. He would get away, live in some safe house in the US, then smugly walk into a Chick-fil-A a few months later and wonder why he’s getting busted.

On another note, I read where Mr. Query (sp?),  One of their old family friends, mentioned in a tweet about using a Linux partition on his computer. I wonder how farspread evading covenant eyes has gotten. Probably pretty far with this bunch of men. 

I keep thinking back to 2015 when we first learned about the molestations, when Jill (?) said something like “All families have this problem.” I mean, she might have assumed that thanks to being brought up to believe that men are constantly tempted and defrauded by a four-year-old’s arms, etc. Or maybe she knows things. 

[Trillium]

1 hour ago, libgirl2 said:

I honestly think Josh is not much of a believer. I think he claims to be one because he is treated like royalty. As a male, he can have final say in everything over women. He probably also thinks because he claims to be a believer, he is free from any punishment for his wrong doings. 

Exactly this. He has zero need for accountability because “the Devil made me do it and Jesus hath forgiven” Even in prison, he’ll continue to “believe” if only because he can act superior to the other unsaved inmates. But there is absolutely nothing sincere about his beliefs. It’s his ace in the hole to pull out when it suits him. 

[3 is enough]

Josh only cares about Josh.  He will pretend to be a believer, pretend to repent, but at the end of the day he will continue to find a way to do what he wants to do.  He knows he is guilty.  He knows what he did was illegal but he just doesn't care because HE wanted to view those materials. 

I don't know if he has some real psychological issues, or if he just has a ton of  simmering resentment about his upbringing.  He had a fairly normal early childhood, then his parents went deep into fundamentalism and everything changed.  He had a gazillion siblings, got taken out of school, he couldn't date. He wanted to be a lawyer, but his SOTDRT education effectively ended that dream, not to mention he was married and a father by the time he was 21.  I don't think he even would have married Anna had he been given a choice, and he certainly did not want 7 kids.  I distinctly remember him saying multiple times early in the marriage the maybe they would only have 2 or 3 kids. 

I do think he craves control and domination because he was basically denied any control over his own life. Sure, he could have left, but he just wasn't strong enough. 

I hope they throw him in prison, but I doubt he will ever be rehabilitated.  

Edited June 28, 2021 by 3 is enough

[ginger90]

2 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

They have been housing a lot of sex criminals in the Englewood Colorado country club prison. 

At the prison, or camp?

It’s a SOMP facility, so it would be expected “sex criminals” would be there.

Edited June 28, 2021 by ginger90

[Heathen]

46 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I don't know if he has some real psychological issues, or if he just has a ton of  simmering resentment about his upbringing.  He had a fairly normal early childhood, then his parents went deep into fundamentalism and everything changed.  He had a gazillion siblings, got taken out of school, he couldn't date. He wanted to be a lawyer, but his SOTDRT education effectively ended that dream, not to mention he was married and a father by the time he was 21.  I don't think he even would have married Anna had he been given a choice, and he certainly did not want 7 kids.  I distinctly remember him saying multiple times early in the marriage the maybe they would only have 2 or 3 kids. 

Both. I think some of it is innate. Some of it falls back on his rotten, shit-for-brains parents and their stupid religion. 

I agree he wouldn't have had seven kids if he had a real choice. (Before anyone says it, it's hard AF to leave what you know even if you have an education, support, and a way out. Smuggar had none of them.) Smuggar was visibly disappointed when Ofsmuggar announced M3, and he's basically looked checked out each announcement since then. 

 

[mythoughtis]

I don’t think Josh has any true  idea of how much trouble he is in.  The rest of us learned about true crime by watching true crime shows, reading true crime novels, reading the newspaper and watching network news.  We knew early that there was actual jail time for crimes.  Josh didn’t learn any of that until he went to Washington DC. If then.  That’s one problem with no TV and  only religious reading.  Actual ignorance. 
 He accompanied JB to the legislature but since JB only  attended to vote on abortion bills….

I think that he, his parents, and Anna think he will be acquitted.  As do some of the siblings. The ones that don’t have TVs in their homes.

Pa Keller should know better since he did prison ministry, but he’s proven that he can bury his head in the sand.  

Edited June 28, 2021 by mythoughtis

[emmawoodhouse]

All Pa Keller cares about is winning souls. I would wager that's what David Keller was doing with Smuggar, trying to bring him back to God. 

As for Smuggar, he knows all the platitudes. He's spouted them his entire life. But I think we all know he doesn't mean them. He's just taking the path of least resistance with these people. 

[Hpmec]

2 hours ago, Heathen said:

Both. I think some of it is innate. Some of it falls back on his rotten, shit-for-brains parents and their stupid religion. 

I agree he wouldn't have had seven kids if he had a real choice. (Before anyone says it, it's hard AF to leave what you know even if you have an education, support, and a way out. Smuggar had none of them.) Smuggar was visibly disappointed when Ofsmuggar announced M3, and he's basically looked checked out each announcement since then. 

 

If he didn't want all those kids, he should have snuck off and had a vasectomy. He was good at sneaking around and medical privacy laws would have protected him. If he chose to keep having unprotected sex, he shouldn't have been surprised or disappointed by the resulting pregnancies. What an ass. 

[Future Cat Lady]

2 minutes ago, Hpmec said:

If he didn't want all those kids, he should have snuck off and had a vasectomy. He was good at sneaking around and medical privacy laws would have protected him. If he chose to keep having unprotected sex, he shouldn't have been surprised or disappointed by the resulting pregnancies. What an ass. 

He probably thinks thant contraception is the woman's responsability and that real men don,t get vasectomies.

[Heathen]

4 minutes ago, Hpmec said:

If he didn't want all those kids, he should have snuck off and had a vasectomy. He was good at sneaking around and medical privacy laws would have protected him. If he chose to keep having unprotected sex, he shouldn't have been surprised or disappointed by the resulting pregnancies. What an ass. 

It's hard AF to leave what you know even if you have an education, support, and a way out. Smuggar had none of them. He also had religious teaching that said birth control was a sin. It's way too easy for us as outsiders to say he should have done this or that. 

[MargeGunderson]

6 hours ago, Kellyee said:

I thought most sex offenders ended up in segregation. So he'd be in a small cell alone for something like 23 hours a day. If he gets a 10 year sentence of that, I really think that's worse than the death penalty.

And he’ll have to go to therapy. He’s going to hate that.

[BradandJanet]

A disaster is usually a perfect storm. We have Josh's innate personality problems, his ineffectual and overly fecund parents and their many, many failures, a patriarchal religion that makes exceptions for and therefore fails to address a lot of important issues, a golden son status, and the money from a television show and other investments to try to buy a way out that may not exist. 

I don't see how this will turn out well for Josh. There's a lot of religion in prison too. He is going to have a hard time escaping it. 

[Hpmec]

1 hour ago, Heathen said:

It's hard AF to leave what you know even if you have an education, support, and a way out. Smuggar had none of them. He also had religious teaching that said birth control was a sin. It's way too easy for us as outsiders to say he should have done this or that. 

He wasn't overly concerned about religious teaching or sinning when he was signing up for Ashley Madison or sleeping with a hooker. Yes, easy to judge, I guess, but his cheating and internet habits seem to point to a less than religiously observant guy. If he didn't want kids, there were options. If he chose not to explore those options and he ended up with seven children, he had no cause to be disappointed. You have to lie in the bed you make. 

 

 

 

[Westiepeach]

I think he will have a very rude awakening… in the very worst way… because his ass WILL be thrown in jail… and he will be *stunned* because He. Is. A. Duggar. And he will learn very, very quickly… Feds do not play.

[Heathen]

35 minutes ago, Hpmec said:

He wasn't overly concerned about religious teaching or sinning when he was signing up for Ashley Madison or sleeping with a hooker. Yes, easy to judge, I guess, but his cheating and internet habits seem to point to a less than religiously observant guy. If he didn't want kids, there were options. If he chose not to explore those options and he ended up with seven children, he had no cause to be disappointed. You have to lie in the bed you make. 

 

 

 

Way too easy to judge. And hindsight is 20/20. 

[awaken]

I'm just imagining Josh, charged and awaiting trial, stuck at the Reber's with not much to do, and who shows up but David Waller to "minister" to him is his honeyed tones.  JUST they guy I'm SURE Josh was happy to see at a time like this!  And I can't even imagine what Priscilla thinks of these charges.

[libgirl2]

4 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I don’t think Josh has any true  idea of how much trouble he is in.  

 

because he has gotten away with it before, he figures he will. Daddy will take care of it. 

[Westiepeach]

Wasn’t TFDW crushing on Joshie at one point?

[BitterApple]

7 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Wasn’t TFDW crushing on Joshie at one point?

They had a very, um, intense mud wrestling match.

[libgirl2]

10 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

They had a very, um, intense mud wrestling match.

there was more passion in that scene than any wedding kiss we ever saw. 

[Scarlett45]

I just thought how awfully fitting this thread title happens to be. 
 

Right now I feel awful for the older M kids, they might not know exactly what is going on, but they know something is up. Meredith, Mason and Maryella are too small to really understand but I bet Mackenzie, Michael and Marcus are going through it emotionally.