S14.E14: Finale, Part 2

[jrlr]

Everything that could be said about this farce has already been said eloquently (and with great, funny snark) here, so I'm just going to ask about something that really made me angry.

Was anyone else offended when Candace talked about her clothing being for "strong" women? I call complete bullshit. Just because you wear something that looks like it came out of Mistress Wanda's dominatrix closet doesn't make you a strong woman. It makes you a rock star or a sex worker (oh God I HATE that euphemistic phrase!). Hey Candace, strength is an interior quality, not an effing costume in black and/or black and red that can't be walked or breathed in. Go see "Suffragette." Having said that, I really loved her first look, the cherry blossom dress. What a ridiculous season.

[KLovestoShop]

I finally got to watch the whole episode and all I can say is TOTAL YUCK. Kelly's collection looked like hooker redux meets Lumberjack Joe.

I liked Ashley's colors and fabrics, but the designs were awful. I'm sorry, but just because you see Kim Kartrashian wearing granny panties with lace overlay, doesn't mean it should be worn by plus size. As a plus size person, you wouldn't catch me wearing any of her things. The "thing" she brought out to the critique, that huge, awful dress, was terrible. And while I understand her thing of Mexico, the headpieces were comical. I think she won only because of her size.

If Candace hadn't used so much leather, she'd be right up there. I liked a couple of her long dresses, the ones without leather.

Personally, I think Edmond should have won. He was consistent throughout the season, and he rarely failed. His gowns were breathtaking.

All in all, an awful season.

[shksabelle]

Judges:  Look how ENLIGHTENED we are.  We are at the top of the high fashion world and we gave the win to the fat chick.  Let's all go pat ourselves on the back and return to our regular world of designing and promoting clothing for 6-foot tall, size 00 18 year olds.

WHAT A TRAVESTY

For the record, I am a plus-size and I would not be caught dead in any of those hideous, old lady outfits

 

[Passing Strange]

Was anyone else offended when Candace talked about her clothing being for "strong" women?

 

It offends me when any designer says his or her clothing reflects "strong" women, regardless of the particular style. Saying "strong woman" is like calling Tenley Albright a "woman doctor." It's redundant.

[ichbin]

If Candace hadn't used so much leather, she'd be right up there. I liked a couple of her long dresses, the ones without leather.

 

I wasn't a fan of her overall collection, but I think that her first dress, the white and red print one, was one of the best looks out of all the collections.  She's got skills in design, fit, and construction.  She just needs to venture out of her box more.

[PepperMonkey]

I wasn't going to watch the reunion show next week, but I do want to see Swapnil and Merline.

 

I can't believe they're STILL going on and on about that paintball challenge. Why does Ashley even still care? She was given the win, which I guess she "deserved" just as much as any of the others, but if I were her, I would think they all wanted to get me out because they thought I might be the ultimate winner?? I mean, that's kind of a compliment, sort of; well, leaving out the part about how she was given the win, although I'm sure she doesn't view her gift that way.

 

Oh well. Whatever. I know Ashley's young and I am hip to her struggle so I can't dislike her. I just wish she hadn't come across so smug in her talking heads the past couple weeks. Even IF she already knew she had won when those were filmed, she could have practiced a little bit of humility.

[millennium]

I wasn't a fan of her overall collection, but I think that her first dress, the white and red print one, was one of the best looks out of all the collections.  She's got skills in design, fit, and construction.  She just needs to venture out of her box more.

 

[sinkwriter]

 

I can't believe they're STILL going on and on about that paintball challenge. Why does Ashley even still care?

 

I'm not sure she does care anymore at this point, but I'm sure the show will rehash everything from the paintball challenge to the Swapnil vs. Tim stuff to whatever else they want to remind us of repeatedly, for as much DRAMAHHHH as possible.  *sigh*

I wasn't going to watch it, but I am curious what Swapnil is going to say.

[lilabennet]

I hate this show now and it is a shame because I used to love it.  It was clear that Ashley was chosen to be the winner from day 1 no matter how crappy her final collection was and that trash she sent down the runway certainly lived down to expectations.  The only good thing about her collection is that it was so terrible that the egg on the faces of the judges and producers will never wash off and they deserve it for rigging the competition in her favor.  I just feel so sorry for all of the other designers.  It is hard and a risk to quit your job and uproot your life even when you truly believe that you have a shot to win, but it is terrible to find out when it is all over that you took that risk for nothing because you could be the best designer in the world but the winner had already been chosen before the first challenge even started.  Shame on Project Runway.

[mindfultvcritic]

I watched again today to see if I had perhaps judged too harshly last night.  Nope!  Ashley's collection looked worse to me.  Construction issues aside (seriously though, that falling hem on the first look!), the only outfit that fit properly was the purple lace mermaid one.  The others though... Bad hemlines.  The bra under the glued on flower horror was bunched at the bottom. The pink shorts romper fit really bad.  The catsuit under the sheer long blouse had a terrible fit at the crotch.  Those models were well proportioned and the fit was bad.  No wonder her real person model during the competition wound up with such a bad dress. 

 

I've been up and down the scale my entire life.  I would love to see more stylish designs for larger women.  This win came off as gimmicky and patronizing and actually seems like more of a put down to plus size women than ignoring them.  It's like here, it covers you, but we don't really think you deserve to look good.

I agree with the construction observations, and what is even stranger is that the way they edited the show, the camera highlighted these during the runway show as if to tell the viewer look closer at these problems. This makes the judges not pointing these flaws out even less credible and their decision to award Ashley confusing.

[caci]

I think all past contestants that were told outfits were ill fitting, the colors were bad or something added pounds should barge into the judges offices and demand to have another shot. Any future contestants who hear the same thing should say something like, "you never told Ashley that' or something to that effect. Ashley"s win pretty much invalidates all judging, past and present.

[millennium]

What was with that runway last night?  It looked like a high school gymnasium that they tricked out just for the show.   The runway was at floor level.   Did NYFW refuse PR use of a real runway?

 

Commentary on The Project Runway Facebook page reads like a hearts-and-minds campaign between exuberant overweight people and those calling bullshit on the show.

Edited November 7, 2015 by millennium

[leighdear]

There are lots of places where a WOS (woman of size) can buy an attractive and fairly current $80 dress.  Here's a perfect example.

http://www.torrid.com/dresses/going-out/?cm_sp=DD-_-Dresses-_-dresses-goingout

 

However, there are not many places where a WOS can buy an $800 dress.  Or $8,000 dress.  While there are more women each year wearing plus sizes, that doesn't mean they want to spend $200 for a pair of jeans or $350 for a t-shirt.  Are WOS willing to pay $75 or more for a well-fitting basic pair of trousers in size 20?  Absolutely.  But I doubt they want to pay $750.  Most women outside of Hollywood can't and don't pay that much, regardless of their size.  

 

All that being said, I do NOT see Ashley in any way, shape or form stepping into that fashion gap, providing luxe and upscale designs for her intended audience.  She doesn't have the creative design vision, she doesn't have the eye and she doesn't have the construction skills.  And I thought her designs looked cheaper than Kelly's.  

 

And I'm sorry, but thinking that a successful designer doesn't need to sew or understand construction is like saying a successful architect doesn't need to know how to draw or understand engineering.  It's impossible. 

Edited November 7, 2015 by leighdear

[smjdel]

What I think saddens me the most about Ashley's win is how it reflects the overall decline in PR quality. Ashley's collection was terrible, but the truth is that none of the other collections were really all that spectacular. I thought Kelly's and Edmond's were clearly better than hers, but they're still a far cry from the likes of Jay, Kara Saun, Christian, Rami, Jillian, etc. None of the other collections wowed me; it was just "oh, that's nice". What a letdown.

[Broderbits]

smjdel wrote:

 

What I think saddens me the most about Ashley's win is how it reflects the overall decline in PR quality.

 

This is so true! Compare Kelley's idea of "sparkle" to Laura Bennett's beautiful hand-beaded work in Season 3. If Kelley had used just a little of that skill and thoughtfulness, how amazing would her collection have been?

[PrincessSteel]

If TPTB were so determined to give the top prize to a plus-size collection (and I see that I'm not the only viewer who is convinced of this agenda), there is a much more honest way to achieve this: hire only size 12 and up models for every designer starting with the first challenge. This would allow a true competition to happen and would make for more interesting television than the manufactured inter-designer conflict. But that's just me. Like Sarah, I care about the clothes.

Sigh. I do like Ashley. I do think she has talent. But the condescending treatment of her throughout by Tim and the judges is the opposite of real progress or inclusion.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

What was with that runway last night?  It looked like a high school gymnasium that they tricked out just for the show.   The runway was at floor level.   Did NYFW refuse PR use of a real runway?

PR has been using a flat runway since S1. Usually they put a white runner on the floor where the models walk. This is Kara Saun's collection from S1.

 

thinking that a successful designer doesn't need to sew or understand construction is like saying a successful architect doesn't need to know how to draw or understand engineering.  It's impossible.

While I agree that you shouldn't be completely inept at sewing (ahem, Anya), you don't need to be a great seamstress to be a great designer (but you should understand the construction even if you can't execute it perfectly yourself). One of my friends has had a successful clothing line for over ten years and she is not a sewer. When we talked about design and starting a business, she said that one of the things you have to think about are your strengths and weaknesses. She knew that she wasn't a great sewer so she decided not to frustrate herself with it. She comes up with the designs but from the very beginning she hired seamstresses to actually create them because she knew that if she waited until her sewing skills were excellent, it would be years before she could launch her line. Similarly, I knew a girl who was a great choreographer but she was barely an adequate dancer. She had the imagination, the vision, and the vocabulary to choreograph but she could not have performed a lot of it herself.

 

Re: Torrid and Ashley's plus size show - Rebel Wilson just came out with a plus sized line of clothing at Torrid (some pictures of her pieces here) on November 1st. She talks about it in the New York Times. The pieces in her line are under $100 each so it's not luxe - a lot of it is t-shirts, sweatshirts, and more casual wear separates that you can mix and match.. Hee, and Marie Claire did a short article about it - thanks, Nina.

Edited November 7, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Porkchop]

PrincessSteel ... .I just popped in to promote the same idea ... they should have picked a week and given every designer a plus-size model. That would have shown who really had talent. I would have been happy with either Edmond or Kelly winning, but when they gave it to Ashley, I guess I am done with Project Runway. Using the junior show to make the finale last soooooooo looooooong was a horrible decision. 

 

And why is Tim Gunn wearing his suits so very tight? Do you think he is pleased when he sees himself?

 

 

[pasdetrois]

Anyone else think that Ashley's win was a pre-production business decision?

 

Supposedly the market is finally acknowledging the big demand for plus-sized clothing. Doesn't the winning designer's contract include an investment/ownership by the network in future work? I recall that Jay walked away from the arrangement because Bravo's contract stipulated that it retained an interest in the winner's business in perpetuity. In other words, they chose Ashley because they believe there's a growing market for her plus-sized clothes and they expect to benefit financially.

 

I would have picked Kelly. Candice's clothes were beautifully made but predictable, Edward's were commercial, but Kelly's were different. I thought Ashley's were horrible - very southern mother-of-the-bride.

 

Ashley seemed to understand that she was the winner. She picked up on the clues from the mini-collection feedback.

[sinkwriter]

 

This is so true! Compare Kelley's idea of "sparkle" to Laura Bennett's beautiful hand-beaded work in Season 3. If Kelley had used just a little of that skill and thoughtfulness, how amazing would her collection have been?

 

I'm not sure it's a fully fair comparison though. Kelly is still a young woman, while Laura had years of experience and maturity to apply to her designs. That's actually something I appreciated about Kelly's response to "why should you win?" I liked how she talked about being open to learning and continuing to develop her skills, and she wanted the chance to show what she could be capable of as she grows. She knew she didn't know it all, and she wanted to have the opportunities to keep developing.

 

(Unlike Candice who acted like she already knew it all and would therefore "mentor" her fellow competitors. *eyeroll*)

Edited November 7, 2015 by sinkwriter

[little black cloud]

Just because you wear something that looks like it came out of Mistress Wanda's dominatrix closet doesn't make you a strong woman. It makes you a rock star or a sex worker (oh God I HATE that euphemistic phrase!).

Huh. To me, "sex worker" seems like pretty much the exact opposite of a euphemism.

[pbutler111]

Quite honestly, I don't know how Ashley even made it to the finale. Her clothes were consistently mediocre throughout the season, and her taste in colors and patterns was questionable, at best. I understand PR wanting to garner a little praise for itself by naming a plus size designer the winner, but it means a lot less when the win simply wasn't deserved, as is the case here. Ashley's clothes were not inspired and, quite frankly, looked less than flattering on even these barely-plus-size runway models. Just imagine how they'd look on someone Ashley's size which, she keeps suggesting, is her real target market. This whole season just feels like a giant waste of time. I understand now why Tim Gunn hated it so much.

[ByaNose]

All of Ashley's clothes looked cheap with awful patterns. I can't recall that any of her clothes looked rich, glamorous or expensive looking. I'm often amazed how little money the designers spend and how rich and expensive they look. I never got that from Ashley. I am still in shock that she won.

[Calamity Jane]

I'm not sure it's a fully fair comparison though. Kelly is still a young woman, while Laura had years of experience and maturity to apply to her designs. That's actually something I appreciated about Kelly's response to "why should you win?" I liked how she talked about being open to learning and continuing to develop her skills, and she wanted the chance to show what she could be capable of as she grows. She knew she didn't know it all, and she wanted to have the opportunities to keep developing.

 

(Unlike Candice who acted like she already knew it all and would therefore "mentor" her fellow competitors. *eyeroll*)

Also, didn't contestants get a LOT more time to come up with their collections back in her season?  I think we might have seen a much more elegant look from all of them if they had had some more time!

[lidarose9]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but remember maybe 2 episodes ago, Ashley was having a really hard time. She was crying all the time and couldn't focus, just seemed to have totally lost confidence. It was the week after the incident when she was picked last for a team challenge. And then everybody said if someone had to go home, it should be her. She was a mess. I expected her to tell Tim she wanted to go home. Then, somehow by the next episode suddenly she was all serene and calm and smiling. Not a speck of bother on her. At the time I honestly wondered if it was a medication issue. I bet she did ask to leave and so they had to beg her to stay, thus tipping their hand about their intentions. So she knew she had (at least) an advantage. 

[Glade]

I burst out laughing when Ashleys final look came out; she was wearing a bedspread!  What hideous pajamas!  All of that horrible pink and purple lace with clumsy zippers that you can see from a mile away did not deserve to win shit.  They were bridesmaid dresses from hell, totally ridiculous and unflattering.  Couldn't they find a better plus-size designer to give this win to?

 

Candice's reformed collection was boring as hell, I couldn't believe all the black leather tube tops. And since she kept the print, why not keep her more elaborate usage of said print?  Kelley was absolutely robbed.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Glade

[Steph619]

I was rooting for Edmond to win. Not only is he a talented designer, but he also seems to be a really cool and gracious guy. His collection was my favorite. I thought it had some very stunning pieces like the black and white baby doll dress. I wish him a lot of success and I hope to see him back on a future season of All Stars.

Kelly's collection had great pieces and although there was nothing in it that I would personally wear, it was a lot of fun and full of fantasy. She stayed true to her essence and made a collection that totally represented her. I really thought she or Edmond should've won.

Candice's collection was pretty watered down so I wish she had stuck to what she originally had planned.

I liked Ashley throughout the season except for her constant crying and I do think she's a good designer, but her final collection was not worthy of the win, in my opinion. I absolutely hated the see through pieces with the granny underwear and that skirt with the glued on flowers was hideous. A lot of her pieces were poorly made, but the judges overlooked that and rewarded her when they've called out past designers on construction issues alone. The result didn't seem fair to me at all.

[millennium]

I have no qualms about PR wanting to explore plus-size fashion.

 

But for the show to actively recruit an overweight girl to make those plus-size fashions, then to push her through to the win despite that her stuff wasn't the best, seems all kinds of wrong to me.

 

The show proceeded from the fallacy that only overweight people can design plus-size.   I take issue with that.  It's a myopic and biased point of view, and reduces Ashley to a token.    Any good designer should be able to make plus size fashions -- it's just a different kind of client.   If Heidi & Co. wanted to be bold, they should have made plus-size the theme of the season and got all the designers in on it.   Do all the usual challenges -- just do it plus size.

Edited November 7, 2015 by millennium

[needschocolate]

My mother always said, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."  And I have a few nice things to say about this season - 

 

I really liked how well the designers got along.  Yeah, there was a little trouble the first time they worked in pairs, and Candice had some rather snarky talking heads, but it was no where near the level of "mean girl" that prior seasons have had.  I liked some designers more than others, but i didn't hat any of them and I don't remember the last time I watched a season where that happened. 

 

And....

 

Um... 

 

Well....I guess I had one good thing to say about this season.  

 

I felt bad for Kelly.She seemed so sad to have lost.  Normally I would say that you shouldn't be such a sore loser and should suck it up for the cameras, but since she had always been so optimistic and would go with the flow and actually heed the advice of the judges, seeing her be so down kinda broke my heart.  

 

 

And why is Tim Gunn wearing his suits so very tight? Do you think he is pleased when he sees himself?

 

I don't know if he is pleased or not, but I imagine that as he struggles to put them on, he says, "Make it work, make it work, make it work...."

[Sarah D. Bunting]

 

I've actually been feeling a little bad for you lately, since you seem to be seriously in this for the clothes, and they've been such an afterthought this season.

There were two reasons to watch, once upon a time when God was a child: 1) nifty clothes 2) Tim Gunn.

 

And now we're all...here.

[RCharter]

There were two reasons to watch, once upon a time when God was a child: 1) nifty clothes 2) Tim Gunn.

 

And now we're all...here.

nothing else is on Thursday night and I can't find my harmonica?

[Oldernowiser]

I'm not entirely sure why I think I know this, but I remember reading some clickbait article that showed a bunch of teen boy models wearing super tight suits with too-short pants and claiming it was "on trend."

Tim, honey, even if it is, there comes a time when we must all realize that the latest trends aren't for anyone over 35.

[RococoChanel]

I wasn't inspired by any of the final collections. I never thought Edmond was talented throughout the whole show and don't understand the love for him (all his close look like bargain bin couture which is fine, but not for Project Runway). Ashley had some good wins on the show (loved the Venetian-inspired challenge) but her final collection was full of stuff we've already seen before. Kelly had a lot of wins on the show and I totally understood her aesthetic, but all the clothes in her final collection looked CHEAP and like they came out of a Delia's catalog circa 1996. 

 

The only one who really probably deserved a win was, oddly, Swapnil. See his collection: http://samisblond.blogspot.com/2015/10/swapnil-shinde-decoy-collection.html

[RococoChanel]

Wow did I just write "close"? I meant clothes, obviously. lol

One more thing though. How do we actually know the fix was in? Does anyone have any concrete proof that Ashley was supposed to win before she even showed? I'm just not buying that someone actually came to the judges and said "you better make sure Ashley wins."

[backgroundnoise]

Also, didn't contestants get a LOT more time to come up with their collections back in her [Laura's] season?  I think we might have seen a much more elegant look from all of them if they had had some more time.

Not that much more time.  S3 was filmed in June and they showed in the September FW.  They maybe had nine weeks max.  S5 had two months.  But somehow S3 and S5 designers managed to do so much more with just 2 extra weeks.

 

S2 had seven months and Daniel V still showed up with things not done.  More time is not always going to result in exponentially better results.

[Julia]

The only one who really probably deserved a win was, oddly, Swapnil. See his collection:

Oh dear.

WADR, young Master Donovan struck me on UTG as one of Tim and Mondo's poor-little-me mean kids, and I think he got a lot further than he earned on that show. It's a little hard for me to hear him on this subject.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Julia

[theatremouse]

I was seriously underwhelmed by all four collections. I could not have called a winner from this. I think no one was robbed and no one was fixed. It was all 'meh but for different reasons.

90% of Edmond's looked like he'd thrown each piece together in an hour. To me they really looked like he produced a handful of the "surprise challenge! Do another dress right now!" looks. Candance's was seriously derivative. I'm completely with Nina on that one and that one complaint alone is enough to down Candance. Even if she'd stuck with her more dramatic original ideas (ignoring completely the "costume or not" debate), still: derivative. And they'd never give her a win for that, even if they liked them. Kelly's wasn't terrible but it also wasn't interesting to me. And Ashley's was exactly was she said she was going for, which I guess some could call a success? Except I didn't enjoy any of it. The color palette bugged the hell out of me. But it was what she said it was.

Nothing new or interesting from the lot of 'em. This would never happen, especially not with the ratings going the direction they're going and the channel it's on, but if this show from the beginning had a "there will not necessarily be a winner" clause, I'd absolutely call this season as "no winner, sorry babes, please hang up and try again."

Edited November 7, 2015 by theatremouse

[backgroundnoise]

I was expecting Kelly to win and was actually shocked they gave the win to Ashley.  But I did think Ashley's place in the final four was preordained and she was ushered along with undeserved praise.  Yes, I do think this was a decision based on how it would affect the media.

[Pollock]

I'm sorry but as a plus sized woman there isn't a single look in Ashley's collection I'd look twice at except to wince. She showed no sensitivity to the areas of the body that larger women learn to camouflage. 

I think her point is that nobody should have to learn to camouflage anything, hence the short tops, see through thingy etc. At least, that what I understood from her collection and her website (the adress was posted here but I don't find it anymore... anyway...). I totally commend her for that because I'm getting tired of people getting shy when a little bit of fat is exposed and I fucking hate people say "she should cover herself, it's an eyesore" when they see a heavier woman wearing shorts as if cellulite has ever blinded anybody (except maybe Karl Lagerfeld but that's another story).

Too bad her clothes really were not my thing (I wouldn't be caught dead in a pastel anything because I hate it, like lace, blouaaargh) and she has no direction (or as some would say: talent) but I really think her intent was good with those eeeemmm... things : you don't have to hide, you're beautiful as it is.

 

 

PrincessSteel ... .I just popped in to promote the same idea ... they should have picked a week and given every designer a plus-size model. That would have shown who really had talent. 

I would have loved that. 

Edited November 7, 2015 by Pollock

[BadThoughts]

Delurkng to say ... I completely understand why Ashley won, and no, the fix was not in.

 

Edmond (for whom I was rooting) and Candace pretty much disqualified themselves. They did not show up with real collections that had the force of concept and execution. Candace's concept was that she went to a museum, but that really only showed in a few pieces. She eliminated two or three elements from her collection, but for the most part, her garments showed as she intended them to. For the most part, her collection was 6-8 throwaway pieces--simple sillouettes without much innovation--and a few pieces that were intended to be showstoppers, but that at every stage (at Tim Gunn's visit, in the mini-collection, and at Fashion Week) looked like costumes. Those few showstoppers had nothing to do with the rest of the clothes she showed. There have been designers who made impeccable clothes that reflected the designers unique personality (Irina, Michelle), who pursued the warrior woman, who pushed the black collection (Christian), or who combined western and eastern influences (Jeffrey)--she did not reach their level whatsoever.

 

Edmond's clothes had more consistency than Candace's, but there was still a lack of concept, perhaps even more. What was his collection about? He seemed to stumble over his own words. Half his looks, lke Candace's, were simple looks. The rest relied on the embellishments. As I saw them walk, I though, "Carol Hannal!" The same reliance on the ornamentation, but not executed as nearly as well as it had been done in Season 6.

 

With two designers phoning it in, there were only two collections--two not completely exciting collections, but nonetheless thoughtful and cohesive--to judge. To my eye, Kelly had a few thriling pieces, but it was very inconsisted. I didn't get the same visceral reaction from Ashley's clothes, but her collection was very consistent. Neither was pushing luxury. Kelly was pushing trashy chic, which I think is fair to say, can be difficult to sell with a large audience. Some of the things she did reminded me of Patricia, but none of it had the breathtaing effect of garments like the miccaceous dress. Having lived in the Pioneer Valley for ten years (my wife's baby shower was held at Pasquale's, where Kelly took TIm to dine), I would have felt some pride had she won.

 

Between Kelly and Ashley, I think there was little to make one collection (not individual pieces) stand out in comparison with the other. On the other hand, experience in the business, consistency, and being in on the Zeitgeist have always been legitimate tie-breakers on the show since season 2. Ashley had all those things, and she has the tools to hit the ground running. Even had she won, the road ahead for Kelly might seem unclear.

 

This finale was a perfect reflection of how terrible this season was. The fault rests almost entirely with the designers. With the exception of Kelly, I never felt that any designer was striving toward something or was transformed by the experience. When they were eliminated, they deserved it (including Swapnil, who was this seasons Ven).

Edited November 7, 2015 by BadThoughts

[TaraS1]

I managed to stay unspoiled until I was able to watch last night and all I can say is what utter and absolute horse shit. I didn't even particularly like most of Kelly's stuff this season, but she won that runway by a million miles. Ashley's collection wasn't made up of beautiful pieces that just happened to be plus-sized, it was a bunch of tacky, ill-made, fat people clothes. I'm definitely plus-sized by the fashion world's standards and I would be embarrassed to wear any of those garments.

Edited November 7, 2015 by TaraS1

[kelslamu]

OMG I am so pissed!  There is no way she should have won that!  Seriously, were they afraid of backlash if she didn't win from the plus-size women out there?  It's almost not fair to the other designers.  I can't even.  I turned it off as soon as Kelly was done talking.  Honestly, I was rooting for Kelly.  I thought she did upgrade her looks quite a bit.  Candice's kind of bored me.  Edmond's didn't bore me as much and I actually liked his last two dresses to walk down the runway.  I still don't get the love for Ashley's collection.  I'm sorry to all those who may love it. It's just my opinion, of course.  I think Zach wanted to give it to Kelly.  Just arrrghhhh!!!

[beaker73]

I'm not sure it's a fully fair comparison though. Kelly is still a young woman, while Laura had years of experience and maturity to apply to her designs. That's actually something I appreciated about Kelly's response to "why should you win?" I liked how she talked about being open to learning and continuing to develop her skills, and she wanted the chance to show what she could be capable of as she grows. She knew she didn't know it all, and she wanted to have the opportunities to keep developing.

 

(Unlike Candice who acted like she already knew it all and would therefore "mentor" her fellow competitors. *eyeroll*)

I'm glad you brought this up. When Kelly gave her answer I said out loud, "That's it! That's the answer!" Nina smiled and I swore I saw her cold heart melting. I thought that Kelly may have actually won. How wrong I was.

Not only did Laura have more years of experience than Kelly, but back then they had 6 months to design and construct their collections. 6 months vs. 6 weeks. It's no wonder the NYFW shows aren't what they used to be. I've said it before and I'll say it again--Lifetime has destroyed this show.

Someone up thread mentioned the transgender contestant. She originally competed as Andy a few years back and came back to All Stars as Ari.

[Julia]

I like clean lines, functional clothes, comfortable things which fit me smoothly, and clear or neutral colors. I would also like the construction to be at least good enough not to draw attention to itself. Those are the same things I wanted when I was, briefly, slim, and what I'd really like my (slim) daughter to wear.

Rebel Wilson and Melissa McCarthy, both of whom actually buy a fair amount of plus-sized couture, are both designing clothes that are right in my wheelhouse, even if some of it is not for me. There are catalogues out there which do a good job, and even stores like eShakti, whose styles all go to plus sizes, and for a fee will customize their styles to your measurements, preferred sleeve length, neckline... If you keep track of sales, fat folks can even dress fairly cheaply.

Ashley's clothes were none of the things I look for in clothes. They were fussy, clumsily made, uncomfortable looking, and impractical. The colors were muddy, and from what I could see, would disserve most complexions. The fabrics, or perhaps the way they were treated, didn't say elegant, they said cheap, despite being expensive. Her dresses exposed far more of the body than I can see being comfortable exposing, or looking at, at any occasion I can picture buying an expensive dress for. IOW, they're scaled up versions of the shoddy body-con crap they sell at low-end mall stores aimed at teenagers.

I think it's great that Ashley feels affirmed by putting plus-sized models on the runway in the clothes she yearned after in high school. I'm not even being snarky, here. I hope it was healing for her. But I vehemently disagree that her designs (which are already available in a number of trendy plus-sized lines in defter versions) were innovative, or creative, or well made, and I don't see her win as a triumph for me. Because what that says to me is not to skillfully design for the bodies of the half of the women in this country who are size fourteen and up. It says make your junior patterns bigger, it'll be good enough.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Julia

[beaker73]

Anyone else think that Ashley's win was a pre-production business decision?

 

Supposedly the market is finally acknowledging the big demand for plus-sized clothing. Doesn't the winning designer's contract include an investment/ownership by the network in future work? I recall that Jay walked away from the arrangement because Bravo's contract stipulated that it retained an interest in the winner's business in perpetuity. In other words, they chose Ashley because they believe there's a growing market for her plus-sized clothes and they expect to benefit financially.

 

I would have picked Kelly. Candice's clothes were beautifully made but predictable, Edward's were commercial, but Kelly's were different. I thought Ashley's were horrible - very southern mother-of-the-bride.

 

Ashley seemed to understand that she was the winner. She picked up on the clues from the mini-collection feedback.

That's interesting. I had no idea that was part of the deal. Of course, Bravo does that with the Real HoWives and any product lines that they start while on the show (wine, clothing, purses, etc.), so I guess it doesn't surprise me.

[riverheightsnancy]

I think her point is that nobody should have to learn to camouflage anything, hence the short tops, see through thingy etc. At least, that what I understood from her collection and her website (the adress was posted here but I don't find it anymore... anyway...). I totally commend her for that because I'm getting tired of people getting shy when a little bit of fat is exposed and I fucking hate people say "she should cover herself, it's an eyesore" when they see a heavier woman wearing shorts as if cellulite has ever blinded anybody (except maybe Karl Lagerfeld but that's another story).

For myself, I thought all of Ashley's design looked fine on her models. The colors are pretty, the flower hats were cute and fresh (I did see another designer recently do something similar though). I am surprised that they didn't ask about the flower construction though. I remember during Jay McCarroll's show how they grilled him about the sweaters that were made for his show. They really have gotten so lax in their criticism depending on their agenda. The first model was stunning and I loved all of the models overall look and fresh prettiness (if that is a word), plus they didn't look like they would fall over from extreme malnutrition and had happy faces as opposed to perma-RBF that semi-starved models often exhibit.

The mid-riff tops and open sections are just fine on a size 12-14 even size 16. I personally don't even consider that size "fat". Chubby, plump, meat on her bones, healthy, but not "fat". I know that the fashion industry sees it differently. But if I saw a 20-30 something, in the teal thing and she is a size 14, it would be fine. My issue with Ashley's collection, is more the description from the fashion industry that what she is designing is actually "plus size".  I wonder if Ashley feels any dissonance about that, because whether she is designing for a size 12 or 2, she is not "really" designing those clothes for someone her size is she? To me, Ashley is plus size, not her models (again fashion industry says otherwise). I know it is so brave to design for a size 12 (give me a break-that isn't fat at all), but IMO it would have been more brave and pushing limits to design for size 20-26 and make those women look great. As evidenced by Ashley's last flower-glue-a-rama dress, I am not sure that she can do it. It seems that the fashion industry does a great disservice to lump the size 12-18 into Plus size. What the heck do they consider 20 and above? Superduper Fatastic? Generally, most clothes ABOVE 18 or XL are considered plus size in general stores. It is an absolute joke that they think exhibiting models at size 12 is fooling anyone that they are real plus size (I say this as a person who has been struggling being in-between those 2 worlds). If Ashley can do anything right from this debacle, it would be to really design great looks for the audience she is actually a member of.  One last thing, many people mentioned about the fit for all the designers, but I have to say that Ashley's use of stretchy fabric can hide all kinds of fit issues and flaws. In or out an inch, the fabric has give. Non-stretchy fabrics, much, much bigger issues with plus size figures. 

One last note: I thought that Swapnil was the very early favorite (with Candace). It is unfortunate that he didn't go farther. 

[EyesGlazed]

Well, I had been rooting hard for Edmond, but he lost his way at the end of the season.  What a disappointment.  He decided he'd just leap right into couture gown design and ended up with way too much froufrou.  If he'd sent a bunch of sleekly tailored, impeccably fitting dresses and jackets/pants down the runway, I think he could have won.  He certainly has the skills to do that.  Ah Edmond.

 

That said, I can live with Ashley's win.  I thought her designs were unexpected and some of the colors (the turquoise, the plum) were lovely.  They didn't look like "I'm dressing to strategically conceal parts of my plus-size body" clothes that you see in stores.  Really, her runway show was the best in terms of being a cohesive collection, telling a story, and showing something new.  I defer to the opinions of the plus-sized commenters who would not want to wear the stuff.  But there's a lot in a lot of runway shows that most of us normal folk would not want to or could not wear.  Ashley could design a ready-to-wear collection that would be more down to earth but still fashionable.  

 

Kelly . . . Yes you came a long way baby, and good for you.  But some of her fabric choices were just tacky and cheap looking.  I hope she gets funding out of her success on this show, and learns more and comes back on All-Stars to wipe the floor with the other contestants.  (Unless one of the other contestants is first-half-of-season-14 Swapnil, in which case I'd be torn . . .)

 

Candice, yeah you let them tone you down too much.  

 

I was very entertained by this season and enjoyed many of the runways.  So I respectfully disagree with the posters who are complaining it was a "terrible" season that "jumped the shark."  (By the way, "jump the shark" has jumped the shark by now.)  I hope the show gets renewed again.

[halkatla]

Kelly is my new Mondo. They are the most talented PR contestants of all time. I don´t understand how Ashley could win.

[DollEyes]

My thoughts:

 

  While I like Ashley as a person and she is talented, I'm among those who think she shouldn't have won. Her final collection not only wasn't anything I haven't seen done before and better, in some cases, there were some things, such as the final look, that were even worse than the originals. If I've seen one crop-top & lace skirt/granny panties outfit, I've seen 'em all. The collection had nice colors, but that alone does not a great collection make, by a long shot. Edmund & Candace's collections weren't "perfect," either, but for the most part, they were much more editorial & had much better design/construction than Ashley's. I'm no size 0 either, but at least Edmund & Candace's collections had pieces that I either wanted to wear or loved looking at; Ashley's collection, otoh, had neither.

 

  Re Kelly, meh. Her collection was OK, but I just can't take someone who considers fanny packs as high fashion seriously. 

 

  Speaking of high fashion, I take Carrie Underwood's opinions about it about as seriously as I did her performance in the live version of The Sound Of Music.

[Callasin]

Wow did I just write "close"? I meant clothes, obviously. lol

One more thing though. How do we actually know the fix was in? Does anyone have any concrete proof that Ashley was supposed to win before she even showed? I'm just not buying that someone actually came to the judges and said "you better make sure Ashley wins."

 

Whether or not it was fixed for Ashley to win there are things that could have been done to make the season look a bit more fair to all. Having at least one other contestant that designed for plus size women would have been good.  Also it seemed like all season Ashley got off lightly when critiqued compared to the others.  I would  accept her win more if I had seen some competition between her and other plus designers and more growth from critique the way Kelly grew.