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S09.E00: John David's Wedding

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11 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Yeah, very little known about the courtship phase. And the wedding special was only a half hour, wasn't it an hour with other couples? 

I think they'll show Jabbie courting on the next season to lead up to the wedding of course, but I could see this being very diluted, or there will be occasional events for the benefit of TV that doesn't necessarily reflect real life.

This is the initial view like we got with the Lissy birth....we will get a season ending full blown episode where we get more details to relive a 4-5 month old event perhaps (probably) coinciding with either a courtship or a blessing announcement (or both).

She isn't headship gazing and her voice sounds like she's her own person; Song of Ruth not withstanding. I have high Hope's 

Can we please dial back the aggressive piano pounding and put that poor trumpet player out of his/her misery?

Another pleasant surprise? Not running from the sanctuary like the hounds of hell were at their heels. That is something that has annoyed me at all the other JWeddings!

Edited by asuwur
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So I just discovered this morning that our Sling package has added TLC. I have NEVER seen an episode of Counting On and they have them all for streaming so I'm kind of excited to see what I've been reading about on the boards for years. We cut cable right after 19 Kids was cancelled so I've missed pretty much all courtship, babies, and weddings.

Starting with John and Abbie's wedding!

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Anyone notice they were standing on the wrong side?  I don't know who picked traditional wedding sides of groom on left, bride on right way back when but they had it opposite. 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Erin Bates Paine was on the piano. No surprise that it sounded like it was being  pounded to death. 😂

I didn't get a glimpse of Erin, but I assumed it was her because it sounded like her typical pounding. 

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JD kissing Abby's hand, then one shoulder, then the other shoulder then the forehead before he zero's in on THE kiss. Ewwww! Was he showing the world what a sexy manly man he is? I have never seen a groom do that before and I don't ever want to see it again....

I like Abby for the following reasons:

1. She doesn't look like a Duggar girl clone. 

2. She has an education

3. She has/had a job and life of her own before marriage. 

Jana looked miserable. Poor thing. I still say she is the most beautiful of all the sisters. 

Edited by bichonblitz
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3 hours ago, ShaNaeNae said:

Anyone notice they were standing on the wrong side?  I don't know who picked traditional wedding sides of groom on left, bride on right way back when but they had it opposite. 

 

That's interesting, could it be a regional thing?  Because every wedding I've ever been to is (from the guests POV in the pews/seats) bride on the left and groom on the right and I've never seen it the way you describe.

I only watched this on demand so not sure how the episode differed from what was on there but it was pretty good as things things go.  I liked how Abbie did a very normal, very modern "Whooo" while waving her bouquet.  Something so simple shouldn't stand out but they so rarely do things the way most couples/weddings do so things like that are just more noticeable.   

With it only being half an hour plus the VERY low key "hey this is my girlfriend" introduction they used I wonder if it's because they'll highlight the courtship and wedding later in the season or if JD and Abbie have decided to not be fully filmed all the time and at home like the rest of the marrieds and only want to do occasional filming maybe just for milestones.

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2 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I know!!! I was thinking "Am I hot for John David right now? What the fuck is happening? Do I need to be raptured?"

Re: inappropriate or not, I say good for him. If these miserable puritanical fuckers are going to starve their grown adult children of any physical touch because they're not married, they better not clutch their pearls if the couple puts on a bit of a show when finally allowed. It was a sexy, confident way of reminding everyone that even though he (might've) stuck to the rules and is a 30-year-old virgin, he's still an adult who knows what he wants and won't be intimidated out of showing affection for his wife. Plus imo it was tastefully humorous/playful and not sexual or overly intimate (as opposed to PornBreath Lauren).

I did gasp when he kissed the shoulder away from the camera because the angle made it look like he was kissing the top of her breast lol. Maybe one Duggar is aware of the concept of foreplay! And when Abbie was clearly anticipating JD kissing her lips and he teased her by taking his time to kiss her cheeks as deliberately slowly as possible...that was fucking hot.

Send help, I don't know who I am anymore.

This kind of a show is ok in public but dancing is not? Nike!

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15 hours ago, awaken said:

They all have the same shaped mouth!

and probably used the same orthodontist..

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Is a full parting of the hair coming back for men ?  on the right is Carl Dean Switzer  the a child actor in the mid-1930s appearing in the Our Gang series as Alfalfa, which is what the part reminded me of...

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3 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

 

Re: inappropriate or not, I say good for him. If these miserable puritanical fuckers are going to starve their grown adult children of any physical touch because they're not married, they better not clutch their pearls if the couple puts on a bit of a show when finally allowed. It was a sexy, confident way of reminding everyone that even though he (might've) stuck to the rules and is a 30-year-old virgin, he's still an adult who knows what he wants and won't be intimidated out of showing affection for his wife. Plus imo it was tastefully humorous/playful and not sexual or overly intimate (as opposed to PornBreath Lauren).

I did gasp when he kissed the shoulder away from the camera because the angle made it look like he was kissing the top of her breast lol. Maybe one Duggar is aware of the concept of foreplay! And when Abbie was clearly anticipating JD kissing her lips and he teased her by taking his time to kiss her cheeks as deliberately slowly as possible...that was fucking hot.

 

1

I was having flashbacks of Monica on Friends where she is talking about the number of erogenous zones. I was about to start calling out numbers. 

4 hours ago, ShaNaeNae said:

Anyone notice they were standing on the wrong side?  I don't know who picked traditional wedding sides of groom on left, bride on right way back when but they had it opposite. 

 

 

 

d17b18e74e8fe3bca5ec0663dda6f6fa.jpg

All the weddings I have been to have it as the bride on the left and groom on the right. So maybe it is different in your region?

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7 minutes ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

I was having flashbacks of Monica on Friends where she is talking about the number of erogenous zones. I was about to start calling out numbers. 

All the weddings I have been to have it as the bride on the left and groom on the right. So maybe it is different in your region?

Off topic, but I recently read a Friends fan theory that Chandler was the best lover Monica ever had because she taught him exactly how to please her during that conversation. Made sense to me!

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27 minutes ago, RebeccatheWriter said:

I was having flashbacks of Monica on Friends where she is talking about the number of erogenous zones. I was about to start calling out numbers. 

All the weddings I have been to have it as the bride on the left and groom on the right. So maybe it is different in your region?

I just checked my own wedding pictures and I was on the left and Husband was on the right.

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On 11/27/2018 at 9:16 PM, cereality said:

Jana smiling but IDK she looks a touch sad to me. She looked a touch sad in the TH earlier too when she said she wondered if he'd ever marry -- I have to imagine she is saying that about him bc she has also thought that about herself at some point. It was her and her twin together and now she's left behind as he moves onto "normal" "adult" life.

I fully believe that Jana is not married by choice.  But if not, well then I'll take that too because it will make me feel better about myself as a single mid-30's woman lol

On 11/27/2018 at 9:29 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Just because Jana may not want to get married (for a variety of reasons) that doesn’t mean she won’t miss her twin, who’s been her partner in crime and now she is the only one of the “older kids”(Josh- Jinger) left at home. 

I could have sworn I read that JD didn't live at the main house anymore.

On 11/27/2018 at 9:42 PM, GussieK said:

John David could hardly contain himself with real happiness, I think. This was very heartening. 

It was so stinking cute! 

On 11/27/2018 at 10:48 PM, Reddust said:

I thought the kissing at the altar was fun, Abby even looked at him and said you're so silly with a smile.

I thought the kiss was adorable. I didn't feel it was overly sexual for a church. 

On 11/28/2018 at 8:58 AM, MMLEsq said:

It was interesting when John David said that he's now kind of a glitter guy, since Abbie's a glitter girl.  Didn't seem at all like anything he would have said in the past -- if he had been asked the question a year ago, I feel confident that he would have rolled his eyes and either tersely said "no, I'm not a 'glitter guy'" or something sarcastic.  I believe this is true love or at the very least he's truly infatuated.  He seemed so happy.

I loved that moment has well "Now I'm kind of a glitter guy... because she's a glitter girl...."  too sweet! (probably because I love glitter myself) and then moments later she's exclaiming how amazing her bridesmaids look because they're so sparkly.

On 11/28/2018 at 9:29 AM, BitterApple said:

FWIW, I don't think Josiah is gay. I think he married the wrong girl to put the gay rumors to rest. Lauren doesn't strike me as a very warm person. Jessa claiming Si's wedding was her favorite pretty much confirms the whole thing is a farce.

Side note - Lauren has a great singing voice!  

16 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Erin Bates Paine was on the piano. No surprise that it sounded like it was being  pounded to death. 😂

I knew it the moment that piano started. I said to myself "I bet that's an Erin Paine piano song" - and the trumpet was kinda awful too.

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33 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

I just checked my own wedding pictures and I was on the left and Husband was on the right.

I did the same. I was on the left.

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17 minutes ago, gunderda said:

I could have sworn I read that JD didn't live at the main house anymore.

I had heard that but it wasn’t confirmed. 

I know what you mean, as I am a 33 year old childfree woman with no desire to partner, but that doesn’t mean you don’t miss the companionship and the types of relationships you had before your peers started to partner. And partnering yourself won’t cure that if you don’t want a partner! (Pet peeve of my life, if I had $5 for every time someone asked me why I didn’t have a boyfriend I wouldn’t need to work any more).

I personally would rather be Jana in this situation, but that doesn’t mean it’s not hard for her sometimes. 

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since the duggar and bates pattern their wedding details after British royalty...

Left vs. right - Facing the front or as the couple is walking out ?

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Edited by sATL

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I actually really liked the kiss. After reading about it, I expected it to be awkwardly sensual, but I didn't get that impression at all. I found it silly, and the audience laughed every time. I think JD took his cues from the audience; I bet if they had stopped laughing, he would have just gone straight for the big event. It seemed like the audience saw it as fairly innocent and liked it. 

I liked Lauren's voice somewhat, but Josiah had no use there. Lauren reminded me of the kid in choir that I would encourage, because she has potential, but no breath support. I'd teach her techniques to improve that, and let her try solos / duets as a second string soloist. She has a pretty good church choir voice, but Josiah unfortunately isn't audible. 

I personally think Josiah is likely gay, but only from anecdotal experience. When I was in college choir, we had soooo many guys who could have gone either way, but pretended to be straight in that conservative environment. All of us girls dated one of them; I actually dated two! We knew they might be gay, but they were our social group, and we weren't extremely serious about relationships anyway at that age. Now, ten years later, every single one of those guys is openly gay, as well as guys who only slightly pinged our radar, and guys who totally didn't! I've learned that the majority of the time, if you suspect a guy is gay, he is, although I do have one effeminate friend from choir who is straight and very, very happily married. Still, only judgmental outsiders ever thought he was gay; he never pinged any choir members' radar, and in fact was one of the most sought after guys. I suppose it would be different in a non-church choir environment, where people felt more free to be themselves. Anyway, I also feel bad for him, because even if he's not gay, he has a genuine connection with Marjorie, who is talented and smart also. Lauren is a teenager who acts like she's turning forty tomorrow, and desperate for marriage, with a bit of mean girl mixed in. Josiah and Marjorie's relationship reminds me soooo much of the affectionate college relationships we had with gay guys, who genuinely had a connection with us on a human level. At the very least, Josiah has to live with the gay rumors, as a result of his idiot parents putting him on TV. Being a star is great for the "hot" ones who fit the mold, like Jessa, but then poor Josiah feels he has to act like a macho man at his own wedding to dispel rumors. 

Edited by Christina87
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I give John David a pass on the "sexy" altar kiss. After all, he'd never been in a relationship before or even dated. He is so naive, and his upbringing was so sheltered, that he probably didn't realize that what he did might seem inappropriate. He was just trying to be funny.

Edited by Bayarea4 · Reason: syntax
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On 11/28/2018 at 6:21 PM, Normades said:

What does she really have to look forward to in that lifestyle, though?  She's not going to go to college or have a career, so her whole identity is pinned on marriage and children.  Lots of these women who get married end up in families where they have lots of children they can't support and really struggle, like MEschelle did in the early days.  Many end up selling MLM products like Plexus, Thrive, etc. to try and make money and just get scammed into more debt.  Josiah offers a family with money and fame.  That seems like a pretty good deal for these girls who have little to no options.  Such a waste.  I really worry about Josiah.

I also think his broken engagement with Marjorie shows how wrong their ideas about avoiding dating are. Dating allows you to learn your likes and dislikes and how to get along with others.  It also gives the chance to have your heart broken and learn to recover from disappointment.  Yes, it's a part of life that really is difficult, but it allows growth.  These idiots stunt growth at every level.  I feel like Josiah hasn't had a real chance to get past complex feelings.  He may even fell like a failure because of it.  If he is also gay, that adds another huge emotional facet to his life.  I feel so sorry for that kid.

I totally agree with you, especially with the second paragraph.  Yes, dating gives you a chance to know another person, but it also gives you a chance to learn about yourself.  You learn what you want out of a relationship, how you want to be treated, how you want to be loved.  Their whole "dating with a purpose" bullshit drives me crazy.  They just want to rush the timeline because they have to get more passengers on the 'procreate-for-Jesus' train.  Screw their happiness, their emotional wellbeing, and lives.  But don't forget to screw each other. There are babies to be made!

Mr. Six hates when I refer to the Golden Girls, but there's a message this whole family can use.  Dorothy's old prom date shows up in Miami, and they agree to see one another again.  She was led to believe he stood her up.  Turns out, he did show up, but Sophia sent him away because of how he was dressed and his attitude.  Sofia couldn't understand why Dorothy was so upset since it happened 50 years prior.  Paraphrasing here, Dorothy said because Sofia took her choice away, she ended up pregnant & married to Stan.  JB & M are taking away their own children's choices from the moment their born.  Those kids are apparently not that deserving.  We'll overlook the fact that they got the short end of the stick with Ma and Pa.  I try very hard to not judge parents since I don't have kids, but I will judge these two until the end of time.  

And on topic--I got to see the wedding episode, and they seem like a great match.  They are very relaxed with one another, and based on that kiss, that was not the first time.  Woot!

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I love that JD and Abbie seemed so comfortable and natural with one another.  JD went from dork to semi-stud with some facial hair, and being in love.  He was just busting his buttons, and Abbie has had more of a normal life than the Duggar girls (and most of the boys.)  Contrast JD & Abbie's nuptials with unfortunate Josiah & Lauren.  I'd say JD and Abbie are in the same lovey-dovey stage as Joe and Kendra were.

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41 minutes ago, sixlets said:


Mr. Six hates when I refer to the Golden Girls, but there's a message this whole family can use.  Dorothy's old prom date shows up in Miami, and they agree to see one another again.  She was led to believe he stood her up.  Turns out, he did show up, but Sophia sent him away because of how he was dressed and his attitude.  Sofia couldn't understand why Dorothy was so upset since it happened 50 years prior.  Paraphrasing here, Dorothy said because Sofia took her choice away, she ended up pregnant & married to Stan.  

Jon Nuretti was a smoking hot silver fox. I would've shipped Sophia's ass back to Shady Pines for that one.

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10 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

So I just discovered this morning that our Sling package has added TLC. I have NEVER seen an episode of Counting On and they have them all for streaming so I'm kind of excited to see what I've been reading about on the boards for years. We cut cable right after 19 Kids was cancelled so I've missed pretty much all courtship, babies, and weddings.

Starting with John and Abbie's wedding!

I just saw that they added it so I signed up for Sling.

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10 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Re: inappropriate or not, I say good for him. If these miserable puritanical fuckers are going to starve their grown adult children of any physical touch because they're not married, they better not clutch their pearls if the couple puts on a bit of a show when finally allowed. It was a sexy, confident way of reminding everyone that even though he (might've) stuck to the rules and is a 30-year-old virgin, he's still an adult who knows what he wants and won't be intimidated out of showing affection for his wife. Plus imo it was tastefully humorous/playful and not sexual or overly intimate (as opposed to PornBreath Lauren).

PornBreath! Bahahaha

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On 11/27/2018 at 9:26 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Yeah I think the kissing got a little too sensual for the altar. They look happy though. I did like when Jessa and Ben got married they wanted that moment to themselves. 

I think the kisses were so they could honestly say they saved the first kiss( on the shoulder, wink, wink) for the wedding.   If they had gone straight for the lips, they couldn’t say that. 

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On 11/28/2018 at 10:49 AM, louannems said:

Was last night's wedding the same as I saw on the link posted a week or two (or three?) ago?  Why do I need to watch it again if it's the same thing?

I fast-forwarded through the DVRed episode and didn’t catch anything that I didn’t remember from the two TLC GO 10-min wedding episodes. I think you’re good. 😊

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6 minutes ago, gunderda said:

 

I have recently started going to concerts and sporting events alone. A lot of people say they don't know how I can do that - I say, because if i didn't, I would be a hermit in my house - cause none of you dingbats want to attend them with me!

Good for you.  My sister met her husband at a baseball game so you never know.

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I was a grinning idiot this whole episode.  I thought John David looked great, and Abbie is such a breath of fresh air compared to the Duggar girls!   They seemed totally happy, which for some dumb reason, made me happy and a bit ferklempt!

I don't get the same sadness feeling with Jana that most comment on.  She seems content.  I think she lives somewhere away from the big house as well?  

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@MV713 No she lives at the big house. She has always lived at the big house. I’m pretty sure the only one that has lived *somewhat separately is John David, when he purchased a house. But now, I guess a lot of the siblings have houses under their names. 

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1 hour ago, MV713 said:

I was a grinning idiot this whole episode.  I thought John David looked great, and Abbie is such a breath of fresh air compared to the Duggar girls!   They seemed totally happy, which for some dumb reason, made me happy and a bit ferklempt!

I don't get the same sadness feeling with Jana that most comment on.  She seems content.  I think she lives somewhere away from the big house as well?  

If Jana didn't live inside the big house, the inside of the big house would probably be indistinguishable from a landfill. 

Just sayin. 

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1 hour ago, Marthalord said:

sure the only one that has lived *somewhat separately is John David, when he purchased a house.

As John David said on the show, he rented out the house and remained living at the TTH.  He commented about his sisters cooking and doing his laundry. 

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7 hours ago, gunderda said:

Exactly! I don't mind being single but it kinda stings a bit when stuff you want to do all your friends are doing with their significant others and then you're either left not doing it at all or doing it alone.  i have an opposite problem of you though - sometimes i feel offended that my friends have no desire to even try and set me up with someone lol  and once a friend told me that she told someone else something really not true about the way i feel about having a significant other, like oh great, you think i want to be a single cat lady for life? lol 

I have recently started going to concerts and sporting events alone. A lot of people say they don't know how I can do that - I say, because if i didn't, I would be a hermit in my house - cause none of you dingbats want to attend them with me!

Omg SAME!!! My friends' husbands HAVE to know some single people, but they will not set me up! The only friend who ever has has horrible taste in men, and tried to set me up with her exes (we were young, in her defense). But it's like...certainly ONE of you knows a decent single man! And if it doesn't work out, it still won't be awkward, because they're your friend, not mine. That drives me crazy as well! Plus they never give a reason for not getting me up. It's not like they're ideologically against it! It's more, "hmmm, I'll ask him if he kno s anyone single," and then they probably forget. I feel like there is great potential in their husbands' friends though!

And I know what you mean about going places. Ironically, I think my confidence about doing that was one of the things that really intrigued my last boyfriend! We had been casually dating, but I was going somewhere about two hours from the coast, so I decided to drive two hours, get out and spend a few hours at the beach, and then drove five hours home because, why not? I hadn't been to the beach lately, and thought it was a fun adventure! He seemed super intrigued and fascinated that I would do that, and then invited me to go on a beach weekend with him a couple weeks later! I think some guys do find it cool that we're not afraid to do things like that!

Edited by Christina87
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Contrast this first kiss to Jill and Dericks shitshow of a kiss.  They either discussed beforehand what to do or it wasn't their first time.  I thought they way they did it was cute (and sexy) so good on them!

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11 hours ago, gunderda said:

Exactly! I don't mind being single but it kinda stings a bit when stuff you want to do all your friends are doing with their significant others and then you're either left not doing it at all or doing it alone.  i have an opposite problem of you though - sometimes i feel offended that my friends have no desire to even try and set me up with someone lol  and once a friend told me that she told someone else something really not true about the way i feel about having a significant other, like oh great, you think i want to be a single cat lady for life? lol 

I have recently started going to concerts and sporting events alone. A lot of people say they don't know how I can do that - I say, because if i didn't, I would be a hermit in my house - cause none of you dingbats want to attend them with me!

Years ago one of my coworkers had a single friend who was on Jeopardy.  I jokingly said "why don't you fix me up with him."  She started off on how she had other friends she would set him up with before me.  OUCH!!!  Knowing her beliefs and politics, if her friend is anything like her, there would be no way I could have a relationship with someone like that, but geez, you could have said it in a nicer way. 

I haven't yet tried concerts or sporting events alone yet but I have gone on vacation by myself.  For the most part they have been bus trips so that someone else does all the driving, but at least it's given me a chance to leave my home area and see places I might not have had a chance to see if I was going to wait around for "Mr. Right." 

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23 hours ago, gunderda said:

Exactly! I don't mind being single but it kinda stings a bit when stuff you want to do all your friends are doing with their significant others and then you're either left not doing it at all or doing it alone.  i have an opposite problem of you though - sometimes i feel offended that my friends have no desire to even try and set me up with someone lol  and once a friend told me that she told someone else something really not true about the way i feel about having a significant other, like oh great, you think i want to be a single cat lady for life? lol 

I have recently started going to concerts and sporting events alone. A lot of people say they don't know how I can do that - I say, because if i didn't, I would be a hermit in my house - cause none of you dingbats want to attend them with me!

I have no desire for a man (outside of limited situations wink wink) and I love my cats but I’m always leaving the house. I don’t mind going to movies and concerts alone sometimes but not ALL the time. I’m not sitting in my house staring at the walls cause I’m single!! I have some older cousins that are childfree that I hang out with which is nice. In the baby crazy 30s I’ll hang out with anyone that doesn’t bring a small child with them.

But a woman in Jana’s situation doesn’t have the options we have. That’s why I’m glad she has Laura- at least it’s someone who’s an adult to talk to and spend time with. Doesn’t mean she’s a lesbian- of course there’s nothing wrong with being a lesbian, where ever there is beauty and truth I find lesbians- it’s known.  

Unpartnered adults still enjoy adult interaction and companionship, even without a romantic and sexual overtone attached. 

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I observed Laura DeMaise give the instructions at Abbie's wedding, as she was the wedding planner. This 32 year old woman doesn't have a real job, so she volunteers to coordinate her friends' family's weddings, I guess. In observing her, I was not impressed. We finally got to hear her voice, etc. Sorry, this is yet another weird grown woman, IMO. What is she doing living with the Duggars? I would still like to hear them explain like they finally did with Tyler.

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1 hour ago, floridamom said:

I observed Laura DeMaise give the instructions at Abbie's wedding, as she was the wedding planner. This 32 year old woman doesn't have a real job, so she volunteers to coordinate her friends' family's weddings, I guess. In observing her, I was not impressed. We finally got to hear her voice, etc. Sorry, this is yet another weird grown woman, IMO. What is she doing living with the Duggars? I would still like to hear them explain like they finally did with Tyler.

Well, they've had a LOT of live-in (and also some visiting-by-the-day) young (and some older) women working in their house over the years. And guys, too. A LOT, really. They've pretty much always had people, but they weren't as easily visible in pictures and on video because there were a bunch of female Duggarlings of the same age so they just weren't as obvious. . ....

The thing is, it's been decades since Meeechelle has done a lick of work -- and there's a hella pile of work to do when you've got 19 kids. And of course the males don't help out with anything around the house. Grandma Mary used to do some -- but she seems to have finally retired from doing her daughter-in-law's housework -- and all the Duggarling young women are gone but Jana. .... 

And since they've virtually always imported outside helpers, I don't think it's at all surprising that they have one around now. Especially since most of the in-family helpers have now moved out. .... 

And they can probably get dyed-in-the-wool Gothard types for nothing or at least next to nothing. The TTH is Gothard-worship Central these days. So any true believer is going to feel "blessed" to be there,  most likely. (hard to believe, I know, but the brainwashed are damn brainwashed, I think...) So of course that's how they'd "HIRE" someone. ....i.e., she gets room (bad, a dorm bed surrounded by 9-year-olds) and board (bad, Duggar "cooking") and 5 bucks a day or something. .... That sounds like about JB's speed, I'd say. 

For one thing, Gothard women who are true believers won't get actual jobs or even hire themselves out for child care or housework to non-Gothardites -- so once they pass a certain age if they're not crazy about living with their own families or there are money shortages in their families, the zealots would probably see life with the famous and holy Duggars as a real gift! ...  I don't know how accurate this speculation is, but some have hypothesized that maybe Laura's own family has slipped in their Gothardness a bit (or more than a bit), while she remains steadfast .... If that were true it would be an additional reason for her to be excited about this Duggar gig .............First and foremost, to me, though, is the fact that she's not at all unusual. They've had live-in Gothard-young-woman help for years and years, as far as I know. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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1 minute ago, lookeyloo said:

Tyler!  Right!  What happened to him?  Maybe he went back with his mother?

I see him all the time in Duggar photos. He's there; it's just hard to tell in the mob of uninteresting looking people. He always looks surprisingly happy to me, too. His situation at home must have been pretty hellish for him to be happy there. It's difficult for any kid, no matter what his situation, to go and live in a strange place -- much less a cult compound where he is never allowed to leave, and not allowed to go to school, and not allowed to have friends, etc., etc., etc.

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