S02.E18: The Wedding

[wilnil]

2 hours ago, mtlchick said:

2 hours ago, emjohnson03 said:

Why is it ending in March? Why can't we have so many more episodes THIS season?

My guess is it's the producers/writers who figure they can do enough in 18 episodes instead of stretching it out for the 22 episodes and NBC is willing to protect it even with a reduced season.  Plus it allows the cast to get more time to work on other projects. 

@mtlchick is right -- in interviews, Dan Fogelman has said the 18-episode seasons are what he feels is the best length to work with for this series (like Mike Schur does with his 13-episode season arcs for The Good Place); NBC is apparently OK with Fogelman's shorter seasons because, well, it's their highest-rated scripted show.

[3 is enough]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

Wasn't crazy about kevin's toast, though.  Kate had already unmade the wedding about Jack and he had to bring him back up.

My thoughts exactly.  My  freaking cable came back with 15 minutes to go, so I only saw Kate with Jack's ashes and the wedding.  Will have to wait for NBC to have it up on their site tomorrow.

But, the speech.  It was a bit much, IMO.  Too much dead Dad  and not enough bride and groom.

And Deja?  Ok I understand she is upset.  But that is absolutely no reason to take a bat to Randall's car.  It won't bring her mom back.

[chabelisaywow]

Quote

Does anybody think the worse case scenarios may come true?

I hope not. That's waaaaay too depressing.

I thought Toby's mom was a strict Catholic? She's divorced too (and has a boyfriend).

 

Quote

NBC is apparently OK with Fogelman's shorter seasons because, well, it's their highest-rated scripted show.

I think it sets up Rise AKA Serious Glee AKA Fame 2.0 with an intro audience.

Edited March 14, 2018 by chabelisaywow

[Emily Thrace]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Kevin and Zoe?  Hmm.  Wonder where they were going?  To find out exactly what happened to Jack's brother? I sincrerely hope they don't try to get us to buy that he's been a POW all this time.

He might have been a POW and their just finding his remains now there has been a lot of work in that area because of DNA analysis. Or his remains were located years ago and because Jack was dead they weren't able to find any family at the time and Kevin only finds out about it when he looks into their service records. I also just realized Jack only ever refers to him as lost not dead which could mean a lot of things. Nicky could have been one of the GIs who discovered heroin over in Viet Nam and Jack and his family cut ties with him shortly after they came back.

2 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I'm worried for future Annie! They're trying to trick us! 

Nice Big Three moments. I especially loved Kevin telling Randall not to let him sleep with Madison. Kevin yelling at Randall about the wedding planning reminded me of Kate being mad at Toby last season finale over the balloons popping before William's funeral. In fairness to Kevin, waiting till the last minute is very un-Randall. I'm always happy to see Dan Lauria in things. Part of me is still in my six-year-old mentality thinking that because he died in Wonder Years he died in real life. 

I wanted Kevin to let her wear Jack's necklace.

I was yelling at the TV for them to do this it seemed so obvious. Especially since it could count as her something borrowed since Kevin would want the necklace back.

I wonder if its Beth Tess and Randall are visiting, since Randall looks so much older. It would be believable for her to have just passed. Also I feel like if it was Deja or Tess, Beth would be there too.

Dan Lauria's character also died of a heart attack and not long after his youngest left home. He was probably around the same age as Jack Pearson.  Its actually rather fitting he is on this show.

[MelGoLightly]

33 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

It's notable that the flashforwards are in different time periods, with Kate and Kevin's looking more recent.  For all we know, Kevin could be going to Vietnam with Zoe as soon as next year.  But Randall is seen nearly 20 years later.  And again, I'm wondering where Rebecca and Miguel are supposed to be.

I definitely had the distinct feeling that the first time we saw Old Randall it was 20 years in the future. But the impression I got from the speech overlay on the same scene with Tess the same age and Randall looking the same that it was 10 years later. 

 

So, for the  Kevin/Zoe timeline, Randall says "not even a year from now" while they show them on a flight landing in Saigon. 

 

Then, Kate & Toby regarding his meds. 

 

He says "if you choose right, your people will stay the same." as Deja smashes his window. 

 

Then he says "whether that's tonight, or a year from now, or ten years from now" just as you see the Old Randall and Grown Up Tess say "it's time to go see her". I have to think that the Randall/Tess scenes are 10 years from now. 

 

And side note: I have a lot of friends who started in their social services careers at astonishingly young ages because of the exhaustion the field causes and the low interest in being in the field. I find it totally plausible that a 22 year old, fresh out of college Tess would be in a social services/adoption placement job, which would fall in line with Tess being about 12 at the time of the wedding. 

[Rowan]

I adored "worst case scenario" both times. I totally do that crap, but it drives my husband crazy, which is probably a good thing because him not upping the ante each time I did would only send me further into the deep end trying to compensate for his lack of anxiety. 

Déjà. Damn.

And, show, you don't fool me for one second. I know the flash forward is not going to be anything dreadful to do with her. Do NOT even think about touching Annie.

I know that most here didn't care for Sophie, but I can't help but want something better for her than just Kevin devastating her twice in their little love story.  Beth's cousin seems perfectly lovely, though, so, I'm going to try and be open to it. 

I never in a million years thought I'd become a huge fan of freakin' Mandy Moore, but here I am. 

[doLLish]

3 hours ago, mtlchick said:

My sister's one comment: "Why is (Deja) Lemonading?"

Your sister is my new favorite person. I laughed SO hard at this lol

Deja has ruined the entire dynamic of Randall's family, a family that pretty much everyone loved, and I'm so over it. Her storyline is a dark cloud hanging over the show and its really enough. I thought last week's all Deja episode was beautiful. Lyric Ross is a great actress. But this character just does not fit. Its a complete force and I don't know how they're going to get rid of her but they just have to. The way the storyline ended originally was perfect. And if anything happens to Beth I will revolt. 

Zoe and Kevin are cute. I liked Zoe a lot and look forward to her expanded role in season 3.

Edited March 14, 2018 by doLLish

[Dreamboat Annie]

3 hours ago, emjohnson03 said:

Why is it ending in March? Why can't we have so many more episodes THIS season?

 

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

How am I supposed to wait so long for new episodes?!?!

Yes, what a strange tactic.  Especially after a sophomore slump.  Oh well.  I assume this thread will be open for those of us who would like to discuss.  Goodness knows, there's more than plenty to discuss.

Madison and Kevin - that looked great until Kevin looked uninterested.  And I knew something better must be coming.

Beth's "baby cousin" is crazy beautiful.  In all the ways that matter.

It has been teased that a main character becomes ill.  I don't think it's Toby (please don't put Kate through another major loss again).  Why would they show us the real things happening a year from now if they still want us to watch?

Yes, hypocrite here - because I am delighted to see Kevin and Beth's wonderful cousin together on that plane.  Those endearing, caring and real looks and the real kisses.  I don't know why they're going to Vietnam, but it looks like they're not going as just friends.

Fuck off Deja.

[twoods]

Finally someone paired with Kevin that I like! Zoe is awesome. Can’t wait to see more of her next season. Maybe she can cancel out the suckitude that is Deja. She was great in the last episode, but I can’t with her attitude and ruining Randall’s car. I’m also imagining worst case scenario in the flash forward where Tess and Randall are going to visit Beth (or Annie’s) grave. Please just let it be Deja in jail or a psych ward. 

Poor Toby. I’m glad that Kate is there for him if he’s dealing with depression again. I hope it’s not cancer.

The Randall and Kevin scenes were so freaking good. Add that with Kate and the big Three are the main reason why I watch this show. I love their scenes together.

Edited March 14, 2018 by twoods

[3 is enough]

Just a thought, but if Deja really does something to harm Annie or Beth in the future, then I cannot see Tess pursuing a career in social work.  

[watcher1006]

38 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Joining the chorus of fans of the Pearson Bros-as-Wedding-Planners.  And I loved that her brothers tracked Kate, precisely; I suspect there at the park area, it was unspoken mutual "Let her have her moment" between Kevin & Randall; the three of them just mesh so beautifully! they make me bitter over NotThree scenes I am forced to endure.

This is one of the few times, maybe the only time this second season that I felt the togetherness between the present day Pearson siblings. I liked watching the teamwork between Randall and Kevin, I liked seeing Kevin truly let go his mindset that everything was about him. And yes, they were both there for their sister.

While it's a long time to wait for this show to come back, I think the idea of limiting the seasons to 18 episodes is fine. I suspect that stretching it to 22 episodes would dilute the quality of the writing and add more filler than substance.

Deja is a puzzle. A casual remark from a stranger setting off such an act of violence. She certainly has some inner anger issues to be explored.

[dlyn]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Me too, and I feel like we knew Toby had depression. Did I make that up?

No. In the episode where Kate kind of stalks his ex-wife, Toby talks about what a bad place he was in after his divorce. I think he even implied being suicidal at one point. 

[UsernameFatigue]

Last week I posted that I was so disappointed that a whole episode was devoted to Deja when there is still so much unknown about many of the characters, including Toby's family. Now I find out that his father and mother are Dan Lauria and Wendy Malick? Now am really ticked off - I would love to see a whole episode of Toby and his parents. I did love that though they were concerned that Toby bends over backwards for Kate (and they are not wrong though were of course wrong to bring it up when they did) that it is Kate who is there for Toby when he appears to be suffering from depression. And as others have pointed out, his history of it may not have had to do the break up of his first marriage as his parents assumed, but may be a chemical depression. 

I loved the "Worst Case Scenario" game. I play it all the time, but only in my own head, not with my husband. My favourite lines were "Deja kills us in our sleep" countered by "Deja kills us not in our sleep". I certainly hope the scene jumping ahead doesn't have anything to do with Deja killing anyone. And as some others have said, I would be perfectly happy if Deja is not on the show next year, though that seems unlikely. 

I loved Kate saying that Rebecca wasn't in her way, she was her way.  And also loved Kate dancing with Miguel, and the look on Rebecca's face watching them. All in all, a very well done episode. 

[dlyn]

So many little bits that I enjoyed tonight. Kevin and Randall as wedding coordinators. The brothers meeting crazy Madison. Both worst-case scenario games. It’s nice to see Beth and Randall be on the same page again.

 

My favorite:

“Deja killing us in our sleep.”

”Deja killing us not in our sleep.”

 

Kate looked beautiful and I’m glad she got the wedding she planned and wanted, rather than the usual TV show hi-jinx. I love that she had a real moment of clarity. And though Rebecca helped inspire it a little, it came from Kate herself and not someone helping her see the light.

 

I also liked the line from Miguel about wanting to dress up as a tree. Poor Miguel. Fortunately, I don’t think he was treated as an outsider here. About the only thing I did not enjoy the black cloud of whatever is happening with OldRandall and AdultTess. Ugh. This show. 

[MBayGal]

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

Whoa....so Kevin and Beth's cousin???  And Dan Lauria (Jack Arnold!!!) as Toby's Dad?   And I wonder who "she/her" is in Future!Randall

I thought that future Tess and Randall were going to see future Deja in jail.

[ohjoy]

This episode, much like Kate's wedding dress, was really lovely. Loved Kate's reconcilation with Rebecca, loved Beth and her cousin's relationship, loved Kevin and Randall. This was a (mostly) nice finale.

I do not love this Deja storyline (although I am unsurprised by it), but if it results (quickly) in Deja going through actual, successful therapy on the show, to dovetail with Toby's apparent depression battle, I'll allow it. But the future "she/her" better not be a dying/dead Beth. (Or Annie, but that goes without saying.) I'd rather it be someone we haven't met yet; I know that's much less dramatic, but I don't care as long as there are no more tragic deaths in Randall's household.

 

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

On a lighter note, I loved seeing Kevin and Randall actually hanging out and being brothers.  All while trying to help their sister have the day of her dreams.  Between this and the repairing scenes in the apartment tenement, it was nice to see them having fun together.  Hope for more of this next season.

The Pearson Brothers Do __________ Together is my favorite buddy comedy. I'd watch a whole season of that.

[sheetmoss]

Melanie Liburd  - Zoe

 

"So thrilled to be joining the brilliant and wonderful cast of ‘This Is Us’. It’s like a dream"… www.instagram.com/p/BgS…

 

ETA - I did like/enjoy Toby's parents pointing out you have to walk around on eggshells when it comes to the moody Kate

Edited March 14, 2018 by sheetmoss

[Racj82]

Yeah, I'm completely  over Deje now. I have long since stopped having patience for sullen teenagers on tv. I don't give a damn what the reasons are. At the very least, I can roll with it for a time but I've had enough. I just don' give a shit. You have people that want to be there for you. Embrace that. Let your mom get her life together. At least don't take it out on the family.

[voiceover]

12 minutes ago, garnetarden said:

The Pearson Brothers Do __________ Together is my favorite buddy comedy. I'd watch a whole season of that.

You, me, and a number of other posters on this ep thread.  The sibs are supposed to be the beating heart of this series -- so much so, there's three generations of actors playing the roles.  But instead of focusing on the heart, we're treated to ancillary episodes about the cuticles.

Did anyone say for sure yet: what of Jack's was in Kate's bouquet?

As far as the just-for-drama's-sake wedding day lecture Toby's parents dropped on his head (yeah Wendie Malick! You look 100% better here than at any time during Frasier or Hot in Cleveland)...while they may have had a point, Toby obviously has a caretaker's mentality.  Not to mention, Kate deserving someone like that after all those years of caretaking Kevin. 

[Spencer Hastings]

I know the guys watched her from afar and asked if she finally let go but before that I’d hoped that Kate had previously discussed releasing the rest of Jack’s ashes with her brothers and mother.  

I wondered why they randomly had Beth’s cousin show up to photograph the wedding and talk Deja off of the ledge.  Nothing is insignificant on this show, but I like Zoe and I’m glad she will be around for awhile.  Kevin deserves someone good and I don’t think she will be putting up with any of his crap. 

They seem to be letting go of all this Jack the martyr dying stuff and the 20 year grieving period, so I wonder how that will impact the role Jack plays on the show going forward. Maybe we will really go deep with the Vietnam stuff and that will be the next big focus of Jack’s life.  I’m glad Kevin is going to be able to explore that side of him.

As for going to see “her”, my first thought was Beth since the camera focused on her after he said it.  But you really never know with this show.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Spencer Hastings

[Mystery]

Sign me up for the Pearson Brothers doing *anything*. I'm there. I loved their "worst case" discussion, with Kevin saying that he let Kate take care of him for too long and Randall saying "you are really good at this."

I also wondered about Kevin loaning Kate the necklace. That would have been too easy for this show, I guess. 

I'm done with Deja. 

One thing I noticed during the dream 40th anniversary scenes was that that must have been the first time for any of the "old" Big Three to be in scenes with Jack at all, right? Of course, he's always with the younger Big Threes. 

[bros402]

Good episode. I am thinking that Future Randall is going to take Tess to see Annie. Maybe she is sick, or in prison. If she's sick, Tess doesn't want to see her sister die.

I think that with Toby, he either has cancer or is in heart failure. I'm thinking cancer because the look he had on his face is like the look I had on my face many of the days after chemo. He seemed sort of listless, too. Heart failure is more likely, though. 

[Mystery]

7 minutes ago, Spencer Hastings said:

I wondered why they randomly had Beth’s cousin show up to photograph the wedding and talk Deja off of the ledge.  Nothing is insignificant on this show, but I like Zoe and I’m glad she will be around for awhile.

I was sure that it was going to turn out to have been a lie.

[colorbars]

5 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Interesting how neither Rebecca nor Miguel were seen in the flash-forward.

I definitely noticed that. I was really surprised they didn't try to pull something vague and mysterious with Rebecca in the future. Or I thought they'd show most of the futures of the younger characters, and then end on the shot of Rebecca in the present, watching everyone, and leave us to assume what the lack of flash forward for her means. She's already pretty old, so it wouldn't be surprising if she was dead by the time the flash forwards are, but she could very well be alive, too.

5 hours ago, anna0852 said:

 Is anyone looking forward to Beth reaction when she finds out that Kevin is interested in her cousin?

I always enjoy her reactions to anything Kevin related, so I'm sure it's gonna be good.

Speaking of her cousin, I'm wondering if she's the sister Beth has referred to before, since the kids call her "Aunt Zoe" and she said in speech to Deja that they were like sisters. I can't remember if she mentioned another sister in that speech too.

[Lily H]

I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, but I can't stand Kate and I can't stand Deja. Adult Kate is selfish beyond belief, and younger Kate had a creepy and inappropriate relationship with her father (which Saint Jack encouraged to her detriment). All he ever seemed to be doing with her was stuffing her with cake and ice cream and constantly telling her that she was the greatest, most perfectly wonderful, awesomest creature on Earth. No wonder she's on a permanent ego trip.  Deja should have to work to repay the cost of that windshield and then find another place to live.

[LoveLeigh]

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

I think she knows there are consequences to your actions.  She knows that if you're careless and cut your hand on a can opener, you will be taken away from your mother.  She knows if you shoplift, you will be beaten.  She knows if you tell your social worker that you're being beaten, you will be separated from your sister-like friend.  She knows that if you get placed in a good home and act like you like it, your mother will sever her rights and abandon you to them.

And I think she needs to know that when you destroy the property of the family that has taken you in and been nothing but nice to you, you are taken away and placed elsewhere. Am I being too harsh?

There have been instances where good hearted people adopted children who really showed signs of severe disorders... (I recall a child adopted from Russia who was returned to Russia because he was very destructive to the home and displayed severe bizarre behavior that the parents were unable to fix and they were afraid to live in their own home with him). 

There are limits that a couple has to have and they have to realize that some issues that children have cannot be fixed by a loving and understanding home environment. I think they should cut Deja loose after she took a bat to their car. It's a bad sign. She is a loose cannon and has severe issues. She needs a group home situation where she can receive 24/7 psychological attention. If they keep Deja around, they are putting their own daughters at risk. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by DakotaLavender

[debraran]

4 hours ago, chabelisaywow said:

4 hours ago, chabelisaywow said:

I hope not. That's waaaaay too depressing.

I thought Toby's mom was a strict Catholic? She's divorced too (and has a boyfriend).

 

I

 

1 hour ago, DakotaLavender said:

And I think she needs to know that when you destroy the property of the family that has taken you in and been nothing but nice to you, you are taken away and placed elsewhere. Am I being too harsh?

There have been instances where good hearted people adopted children who really showed signs of severe disorders... (I recall a child adopted from Russia who was returned to Russia because he was very destructive to the home and displayed severe bizarre behavior that the parents were unable to fix and they were afraid to live in their own home with him). 

There are limits that a couple has to have and they have to realize that some issues that children have cannot be fixed by a loving and understanding home environment. I think they should cut Deja loose after she took a bat to their car. It's a bad sign. She is a loose cannon and has severe issues. She needs a group home situation where she can receive 24/7 psychological attention. If they keep Deja around, they are putting their own daughters at risk. 

 

 

Toby's parents are Catholic (or his Mom) and you can get divorced and still be in good standing, it's the getting married again and needing an annulment that puts a wrench in some relationships. Not as big of a deal now but another step.

I was really taken back last show when Randall and Beth just had Deja's mom leave without protest and now we hear they had a court hearing. Well they got what they wanted, they didn't want Mom around before and now, without any real thought to how devastating that would be, are making up horrible scenarios about her. (not as funny to me as it was supposed to be)  Deja regressed, she was happy with them before, happy at school, happy to be there for a night and now she's depressed and feels abandoned. To have your mom in jail is one thing, to have her give you up, is another. Is she getting help? That lady was rude at the wedding, Deja wasn't pretty in the same way as her sisters and I think she took it wrong and he isn't her father. What she did was awful and i don't like TIU making the "foster girl" the bad one, but hopefully it will get better.  Beth and Randall wanting her to be happy and wishing they had the "old girl" back is fine, but this is what real life is like, it's not a band aid.  I hope she is made to repay the windshield and whatever punishment there is but she probably wont be able to explain to them why for a while.

Edited March 14, 2018 by debraran

[mojoween]

I did find a couple of nits to pick but it’s really only because of lazy writing.

First is when Randall and Beth were in the kitchen and Beth says something like “ever since we went to court and her mother gave up parental rights she’s completely different.”

I mean, I know the show obviously needed to get that information to us because they didn't show it, but that was a mouthful and wouldn’t make sense for them to say something like that to each other.

Second was when Randall and Kevin were in the car and Randall admonished Kevin about the ice cream and Kevin was like “I know you love this car and paid cash for it” and that’s just an odd thing to say.

Also, Randall, it’s unseemly to go around blabbing to everyone you know that you dropped like 60 grand on a car.

[debraran]

9 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I did find a couple of nits to pick but it’s really only because of lazy writing.

First is when Randall and Beth were in the kitchen and Beth says something like “ever since we went to court and her mother gave up parental rights she’s completely different.”

I mean, I know the show obviously needed to get that information to us because they didn't show it, but that was a mouthful and wouldn’t make sense for them to say something like that to each other.

Second was when Randall and Kevin were in the car and Randall admonished Kevin about the ice cream and Kevin was like “I know you love this car and paid cash for it” and that’s just an odd thing to say.

Also, Randall, it’s unseemly to go around blabbing to everyone you know that you dropped like 60 grand on a car.

I think Randall needs to tell others and himself that he "made it" . I work with many doctors and people like that.  They brag about their cars and second homes like that makes them more attractive or "extra points". There is a pretty big insecurity there but Randall has alluded to that before.  There was some grumbling when he told Deja, "Big car, big house" because it is signs of achievement but I  also live in a place where many do non-profit work and make much less, they are happy and fulfilled too. Telling a person who is poor they can be successful is fine, but don't make your lifestyle the only 'making it" they can have.  I loved my old ob/gyn doc, he was black, very successful and very loved. Many asked why he lived "under his station", regular house, never dressed up, took trips but was never ever pretentious.  He told a friend of mine he was happy and didn't need more, he knew who he was and was the most secure person I ever met. I could only hope to always know myself that well.

Edited March 14, 2018 by debraran

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One of the things I love most about this show is that it captures the feeling of real relationships. Even if you haven't been in the exact same situation, even if you don't agree with the characters, the way that they act with each other resonates with something you recognize as true.

The scene with Rebecca deciding what to wear while talking to Miguel was one of those. I have never been in either of their positions. I don't have an adult daughter who I have a difficult relationship, but the way she described how she knows that everything she says or does sets Kate off and that she didn't want to do anything to upset her on her wedding day in such a sad, resigned way was so real to me. And I've never been the person who married his best friend's widow, but I could still see how he too was resigned to his position in the family, knowing that Kate would rather have Jack at her wedding.

The siblings have such a range in the way they interact with each other but it always rings true with me too. Kevin barking orders at who I initially thought was an unorganized wedding planner and then ending his phone call with, "Okay, see you later, Randall!" was hilarious and also totally realistic.

Watching Randall and Kevin try to comfort Kate about not having Jack's shirt was so sweet. Hilariously realistic that Randall and Kevin went to look for Kate and still got ice cream.

Nina Van Horn from Just Shoot Me was married to Kevin Arnold's dad! And even characters who we don't know manage to show us a realistic relationship. Toby's parents finally stop fighting because they are united in their concern for their son. Once again, I can see both sides. I have watched people I love in shitty relationships and I've struggled with whether to be honest and say something. But I've also been in Toby's position getting unsolicited advice from relatives about issues that they think exist in my relationship (and like Toby's parents, the advice was coming from people who mostly lived out of state and hadn't even met the boyfriend in question who they were judging). I was like ugh, STFU, relatives!

As much as I approve of Zoe and Kevin, I also know that if Kevin fucks this up in any way, Beth will cut a bitch.

7 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

I'm trying to figure out what balsamic lavender ice cream would taste like.

You can make your own (recipe here)! This chef used to have it on his catering menu. Or if you just want to try some lavender balsamic, there are a bunch of places that sell it online! I love strawberry balsamic ice cream. Mmmmmm. Or just balsamic on strawberries.

7 hours ago, Empress1 said:

My mother would have said "You have the right to be upset. You do not have the right to be rude."

Exactly!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Another thing I noticed in Kate's dream was that Deja wasn't with Randall's family. Before I knew it was her dream, I thought it was an alternate reality and I was trying to figure out if the show was telling us that if Jack hadn't died, Randall would have given up trying to find his birth parents and therefore never would have tracked down his father, watched him die, and then decided to become a foster parent. But once I knew it was Kate's dream, I stopped trying to make sense of it all. Sometimes details like that mean absolutely nothing in dreams. As Kate and Rebecca discussed, Toby wasn't present in her dream either and that doesn't mean that in her alternate reality she never finds Toby and marries him.

2 hours ago, colorbars said:

Speaking of her cousin, I'm wondering if she's the sister Beth has referred to before, since the kids call her "Aunt Zoe" and she said in speech to Deja that they were like sisters. I can't remember if she mentioned another sister in that speech too.

In the episode where Beth does Deja's hair, she mentions that she had "three very opinionated sisters" so she could have been including Zoe in that group.

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Kevin yelling at the caterers over the phone in the beginning seemed like a callback to Kate yelling about the balloons for William's fun-eral.

Kevin was actually yelling at Randall. At the end of the call, after he berates him about the gift bags and tells him to fix it, he says, "Okay, see you later, Randall!"

Edited March 14, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[MoonMountain]

4 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Just a thought, but if Deja really does something to harm Annie or Beth in the future, then I cannot see Tess pursuing a career in social work.  

I thought about that too! Just a few episodes ago, we were shown how Tess was inspired to be a social worker by her family’s experience fostering. If deja does something to harm anyone in the family, that doesn’t really line up with what they showed us before. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

Clip: a good deal

[debraran]

Nice interview. I didn't know Madison was related to writer and I guess Randall's ring wasn't secretly hidden.  : )

[biakbiak]

Beth "its like something switched in her when her mom told the judge she wanted to terminate her parental rights." NO SHIT, why wouldn't Deja be upset/angry/betrayed/confused that her mother did that. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by biakbiak

[sigmaforce86]

3 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

I know the guys watched her from afar and asked if she finally let go but before that I’d hoped that Kate had previously discussed releasing the rest of Jack’s ashes with her brothers and mother.  

Rebecca dumped the ashes not long after Jack died but Kate asked for some so presumably Rebecca left just a little in the urn and gave that to Kate.  I'd figure since the rest of the family was fine with dispersing his ashes years ago what Kate had was hers to do what she wanted with and they'd be fine with her sprinkling them now.  

1 hour ago, debraran said:

Kevin was like “I know you love this car and paid cash for it” and that’s just an odd thing to say.

It was but it's very "Randall", it's even a call back to the second (or was it third, not sure) episode when Randall first found his father and it was one of the first things Randall said to him to show he made a good life without his bio father in the picture.

 

I liked it; there was just enough humor and little moments so it wasn't too heavy.  Loved the brothers stopping to actually buy ice cream while seeing if Kate was in the shop.  Loved Kevin immediately realizing he needs to stay far away from Madison.  The girls looked cute in their dresses and Kate's dress was perfect for an outdoor woods wedding.  

Not thrilled with Deja's dark turn, from moping to grudging participation to straight wild vandalism.  It'll be interesting to see is this a one off or is this her new personality and how far to Beth and Randall go to save her without sacrificing their own family.  Also loved Miguel and his thought that he should wear brown and try to look like a tree; but then Kate danced with him at the wedding.  I've never really disliked Miguel and they're starting to show he's not bad at all and he's very self aware of his role in the family and how the kids perceive him.  And of course old Jack - was this the first time Milo had scenes with the entire adult cast?  I know he had some stuff at the cabin in another episode but not all the adults like Miguel and Beth were in that one.

As for the flash forwards - I think it's promising that Kevin is with Zoe a year later, not a one night stand and they seemed very lovey.  Toby's parents can suck it, not wishing bad on Toby but if he and Kate are still together in a year and he's back to hiding under the covers than depression is obviously an issue with him not something his ex-wife or Kate can force on him.  Not that something like a divorce can't bring on an episode but his parents trying to stop the wedding and acting like if he was depressed in the past or might be in the future it's all because of outside forces was totally off the mark.    As for the further 10 years in the future - this show likes to throw curve balls and there are a lot of choices for what that scene meant.  Randall said "she" so we can leave out the men but........Is it Beth? And could she be dead or is she very sick or even in a home with something like Alzheimer.  Or is it Deja, in prison or an institution because they never got through to her.  It could even be Rebecca, again dead or in a nursing home.  Or the severe twist; Annie or Kate.  All we really know is it's a she and by the comments and the looks on their faces wherever they're going to "see her" is something they don't really want to do but feel they have to do.  Honestly this is like Jack's death again, too many possibilities.

Edited March 14, 2018 by sigmaforce86

[LadyNebula]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

It's understandable that Toby was depressed after his marriage broke down, but what's going to make him depressed shortly after he marries Kate?

Unfortunately, sometimes there is no reason.  Times of stress and/or grief are usually what trigger a depressive episode, but sometimes it just happens. I've been on antidepressants for years. The first one I took worked for a very long time. And then it didn't. Maybe Toby has been on meds for awhile, and he still had an episode, hence "changing the meds."  Trying to find the right combo can be hell. I was switched from an SSRI to a drug that didn't up serotonin, but worked with norepinephrine instead.  It was a disaster. Treating depression can be very, very hard. 

[Arcadiasw]

2 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

And I think she needs to know that when you destroy the property of the family that has taken you in and been nothing but nice to you, you are taken away and placed elsewhere. Am I being too harsh?

There are limits that a couple has to have and they have to realize that some issues that children have cannot be fixed by a loving and understanding home environment. I think they should cut Deja loose after she took a bat to their car. It's a bad sign. She is a loose cannon and has severe issues. She needs a group home situation where she can receive 24/7 psychological attention. If they keep Deja around, they are putting their own daughters at risk. 

I would've been finished with Deja after that because my concern would be, "If she did this to my car, would my kids be safe around her?" 

But being TV, she'll still be in the house and maybe taking some classes or working off payment for damages done to the car.

Sadly Deja Mom was looking for an excuse to drop her kid.

[Haleth]

That was the most depressing wedding ever.  Not one bit of joy.  Just the pall of dead Jack bringing everyone down.  

I'm really interested in the hints of what will happen next season though.

[llewis823]

9 hours ago, anna0852 said:

The way I figure it future Randall is either referring to Beth, who is either dead or in some kind of care facility. Or he is referring to Deja who is in prison. They were foreshadowing severe issues with Deja tonight.

I think Deja in prison because they said "Ten years in the future" when they talked about it and Randall didn't look much older. Therefore unless an unexpected illness or accident, Beth wouldn't be much older either.  Not to mention, there is now going to be an illness with Toby in the future (didn't it say "one year in the future" when they showed that?) and we have the ongoing sadness of Jack's death, and we had the ongoing death of Randall's bio dad. I just think Deja in jail would be more likely. But hey, I guess we'll have to just wait and see. It's gonna be a LONG summer!!!

9 hours ago, Katy M said:

And, just when Kate lets go of her father, Toby's going to up and die on her?  Aargh. Poor girl can't catch a break

I don't know if I heard something they said to make me think this and just don't remember now or if it was just a gut feeling, but I don't feel Toby is physically sick (at least not in the traditional sense) but more like depression. Maybe one of his parents? Maybe they lose another baby in their first year? I could be wrong, of course, but I just don't think it will be a "regular" health crisis.

Edited March 14, 2018 by llewis823

[llewis823]

9 hours ago, bettername2come said:

wanted Kevin to let her wear Jack's necklace.

I thought about that too. Would have covered old and borrowed.

[Jillybean]

I'm intrigued by Toby's depression, which appears severe in the flash-forward. This would indicate Kate becomes the caretaker, so it's a bit of a role reversal since Toby has been the one taking care of her since they got together (financially, emotionally, etc.).  I am not a Kate fan but I feel for her marrying someone with an illness that she probably was not fully (if at all) aware of previously. Speaking from experience, loving someone with clinical depression can be extremely tough. 

I was just wondering what Wendie Malick was up to! I hope she is not going to be wasted in a single episode. She and Dan Lauria had a thing on Hot in Cleveland, so it was fun to see them "together." 

Hated the "KaToby" wedding theme. 

As a 48-y-o woman with a husband of the same age, IMO Randall definitely looked more than a decade older in the flash-forward.  I, too, immediately thought they were referring to Beth, but also considered Deja in prison. I tend to doubt the latter possibility.

I still love this show, but S2 was very uneven for me without all the magic of S1. I look forward to seeing what S3 brings.

[PRgal]

Do we know whether Tess is close to her grandmother?  Could "her" be Rebecca?

[Blakeston]

I'm actually really looking forward to seeing Toby's mental illness storyline.

Toby being depicted as a depression sufferer is far, far more interesting to me than seeing him depicted as some swoon-worthy romantic comedy hero.

[GSMHvisitor]

10 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

I guess Sophie's gone for good.  I don't know how the actress got her name in the opening credits considering how few episodes she was in. I do like Beth's cousin.

The actress was in the credits, because she got promoted to series regular starting with s2. But then she got pregnant and thus barely appeared in any episodes. I guess TPTB decided then to drop Kevin/Sophie for good.

I know nobody cared, but I'm actually sad Sophie's gone and that her last scene with Kevin was indeed an ultimate goodbye.

I know she was just thrown at us out of nowhere. Then again, on this show where the writers are so in love with their twists and turns, many things happen out of nowhere all the time. And I don't think ep. 13 of a first season of a show is too late to find out one of the main characters used to be married. So I never found it implausible.

Besides, what they are doing with Kevin and Zoe now is the exact same thing they did with Kevin/Sophie. Sophie is a huge part of Kevin's past and the woman he had always loved, his "soulmate" so to speak. And so we were expected to care about her and that relationship in the same episode she turned up.

Now there's Zoe, a woman who will play a huge part in Kevin's future. We find out in the very same episode she turns up that she will sheKevin's girlfriend a year from now, so we're expected to care about her and that relationship.

In both cases we were confonted with facts before seeing the journey. And I'm just not very thrilled that this is Kevin's second relationship that is built up that way. Especially since I came around to Sophie and was actually rooting for her and Kevin and invested in their story.

I know it's a thing this show does a lot - presenting the results, before showing the journey. But this time it really bothers me.

And while I'm talking about the journey and the results, I absolutely despise the flash forward idea. Looking back and unravelling that way how the Pearsons became who they are today works for me, because we all have a past and experiences that have shapped us in good and bad ways. But I can't know my own future and so I have no interest in seeing the future of the Pearsons, before it actually happens.

But oh well, this show just has to push it's mysteries and twists, right?

[Jodithgrace]

I had a quibble about the 40th anniversary dream, though I'm sure it would have been difficult for the producers to have pulled off. If Jack hadn't died, wouldn't Kate have been a lot thinner? Young Kate is just  bit overweight, but my impression is that all of Kate's unresolved feeling of guilt and grief are what sent her down the path of serious overeating. Though, of course, maybe Kate doesn't see it that way, and so she is the same in her dream. But it just struck me. 

At first I thought that future Toby had heart issues, but it makes more sense for it to be depression. I sometimes think that Toby's occasional over-exuberance has a touch of bi-polar in it, and maybe that is his problem. He can be so over the top about things, which is what bothers most of us about him, but we haven't really seen his down side. He's been so relatively stable this past season, that perhaps he is on medication. Just my totally non medical opinion, of course.

I'm laughing, because when Toby's parents were talking about Kate and all of her issues, I was thinking, "Damn right! Girl has more baggage than Kennedy airport." But she did seem to get it together by the wedding, though the future does not look promising, unfortunately. 

After seeing Beth in Vegas..maybe she is the one who ends up "on the pole." 

[Empress1]

53 minutes ago, llewis823 said:

I think Deja in prison because they said "Ten years in the future" when they talked about it and Randall didn't look much older. Therefore unless an unexpected illness or accident, Beth wouldn't be much older either.  Not to mention, there is now going to be an illness with Toby in the future (didn't it say "one year in the future" when they showed that?) and we have the ongoing sadness of Jack's death, and we had the ongoing death of Randall's bio dad. I just think Deja in jail would be more likely. But hey, I guess we'll have to just wait and see. It's gonna be a LONG summer!!!

I don't know if I heard something they said to make me think this and just don't remember now or if it was just a gut feeling, but I don't feel Toby is physically sick (at least not in the traditional sense) but more like depression. Maybe one of his parents? Maybe they lose another baby in their first year? I could be wrong, of course, but I just don't think it will be a "regular" health crisis.

I believe the scene from the future with Randall is from 20 years in the future, not 10. Tess is only 9 or 10 now; 10 years in the future she would only be 19, which isn't old enough to be a social worker. And in the Super Bowl episode, we saw that same-aged Randall and Tess meeting up for their weekly dinners and that was said to be 20 years in the future.

1 hour ago, Arcadiasw said:

I would've been finished with Deja after that because my concern would be, "If she did this to my car, would my kids be safe around her?" 

But being TV, she'll still be in the house and maybe taking some classes or working off payment for damages done to the car.

Sadly Deja Mom was looking for an excuse to drop her kid.

They're adopting her, so I think she's with them for good (although Beth said they hadn't adopted her yet because it takes time to terminate parental rights so I guess they could put her back in foster care, but ... ouch).

I disagree that Deja's mother was looking for a reason to drop her. I think it was pretty clearly established that Shauna loved her daughter and was doing her best. She fell short sometimes and couldn't provide a stable home for her, and recognized that. I think it's a very loving thing for Deja to have done, although I can understand why Deja wouldn't see it that way. Shauna getting herself together would take years and at 12 or 13, Deja doesn't have that kind of time. I would have liked to see a scene of Shauna telling Deja what she was doing - I REALLY hope Deja didn't hear her mother say she wanted to terminate her parental rights for the first time in court.

[Packerbrewerbadger]

I was thinking Toby might be bi polar. He seemed manic the first season when he was wooing Kate and the flash forward is the depression .  Also managing  meds can be very tricky for people with manic depression.

 

Pretty nice weather for March in Pennsylvania...... 

[Mrs. DuRona]

Am I the only one who thought Rebecca was going to give Kate her necklace?  A way to honor Jack but still move on?  It would have been a nice moment for both of them.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Mrs. DuRona
spelling

[Lady Calypso]

22 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I believe the scene from the future with Randall is from 20 years in the future, not 10. Tess is only 9 or 10 now; 10 years in the future she would only be 19, which isn't old enough to be a social worker. And in the Super Bowl episode, we saw that same-aged Randall and Tess meeting up for their weekly dinners and that was said to be 20 years in the future.

Yeah, they're 20 years in the future. I'm glad they didn't just have Randall's words match up with the scene, because even though he mentioned 10 years in the future when it was 20, the overall idea was that it would be many years down the road. Much like how Jack's words to Kate about her wedding didn't quite match up to the scene of Kate's actual wedding, as Jack wasn't even there. 

In that sense, it was a subtle thing, but something I really, really ended up liking.

29 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

At first I thought that future Toby had heart issues, but it makes more sense for it to be depression. I sometimes think that Toby's occasional over-exuberance has a touch of bi-polar in it, and maybe that is his problem. He can be so over the top about things, which is what bothers most of us about him, but we haven't really seen his down side. He's been so relatively stable this past season, that perhaps he is on medication. Just my totally non medical opinion, of course.

I agree. It'll be interesting if he is diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and I think it would make sense. I think Toby's said in the first season that he's been on meds for depression, though I can't be 100% sure of when he said that. 

I do like that they could be heading down this route because it'll actually contribute to Kate moving on with her issues about Jack. She showed tremendous growth in this episode alone. And now, she'll have to put Toby first, and it'll be interesting to see her do that. I'm actually quite excited for Kate and Toby's story for next season now. I'm a little less excited for Kevin's story. I like the idea of him and Zoe getting together, and Beth's reaction is going to be gold, but I'm not sure I feel excited about his Vietnam stuff and, I presume, his hunt for Jack's past. I think I need more time to settle with the idea. I'm also less excited about Randall and Beth's struggles with Deja next season. I'm more interested in their flashforwards into the far future and who the "she" is. I do know they'll drag it out until probably the end of season 3, which is going to annoy me to no end.