S02.E18: The Wedding

[project90]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

It went by fast, but I think she said she was going to pin it to her dress - but I've reconsidered and think maybe she'd pin it inside her dress? Because, who'd have a ratty t-shirt pinned to the outside of an expensive bridal gown. Kate has her issues, but I think even she wouldn't do that.

nope you had it right the first time she was going pin it on her dress

[Jillybean]

17 hours ago, Calamity Jane said:

I have forgotten - how old is Rebecca supposed to be in current times?  If she also was 36 when the children were born, then she's 73 now, which would make her 93 in a 20-year flash forward.  That's pretty old, so it wouldn't be unlikely if she had already passed away.   Anyway, it doesn't seem probable that Rebecca is the reference when Randall talks of going to see "her."  My mind went to it being Deja in prison; my daughter thought they were talking about Beth.  With the evidence we have, clearly many different guesses can be made, but they're just guesses. It's a long time until we find out more! 

Rebecca was 30ish when the kids were born, so she's 67-68 in the present day. 

[Guest]

I assumed Randall and Tess were talking about Deja, the way it transitioned from the bat scene to the flash forward.  

[Jillybean]

16 hours ago, dlyn said:

I never watched Lost so I haven’t seen Flash Forwards play out on TV before, but it seems really risky on the part of the show. What if something, god forbid, happens to one of the actors? Like John Ritter? Or maybe SKB just takes his buckets of awards and decides to go full steam into movies. They’ve already told us what what the future holds. It seems like they’re painting themselves into a corner. 

One of the takeaways for me from the flash-forward is that a year from now, Kate still has not lost any weight. I know that there are many viewers who did not want the Kate story to be all about her weight, and to that end the weight loss theme was largely abandoned in S2. But it is disappointing that some of her first dialogue with Kevin in the pilot was "I am going to lose the weight," and it was a prevalent theme in S1, but it never happened. I'm not saying her story should be all about weight loss, but it just seems like a major plot/character shift (similar to Randall's, I suppose). It was reported during S1 that CM's contract stipulated she must lose weight, and now we know via the flash-forward that wasn't required by S3, apparently. I guess I am just confused by all the abrupt changes in main characters' storylines. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Jillybean

[Guest]

I think that the original plan for Kate was for her to lose significant weight, but then the show was a hit without it, and the network didn't like how it looked when Chrissy leaked that contract thing to the press, so they back pedaled it.  I think Metz is losing weight (some, slowly) but the show is letting her do it at her own pace instead of trying to make it a story point.  

I wonder if Chris Sullivan was hoping Kate and Toby would both lose weight so he could lose the fat suit.  It's probably not that bad to work in, though, unlike the aging makeup and prosthetics Moore and Huertas have to wear.  

[jackjill89]

I don't know about anyone else, but I let out my breath during the speech with the Pearsons.

[3 is enough]

39 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

One of the takeaways for me from the flash-forward is that a year from now, Kate still has not lost any weight.

But how could they flash forward to a thinner Kate if Chrissy Metz has not lost any weight? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just can't see how that would work.  I know they can pad someone to look bigger (Toby), but I can't imagine how it would be possible to fake weight loss.  I assume that since there has been no significant weight loss the producers/showrunners/writers have adjusted the storyline accordingly.  

Edited March 15, 2018 by 3 is enough

[BoogieBurns]

55 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Rebecca was 30ish when the kids were born, so she's 67-68 in the present day. 

During the 1980 SuperBowl, when the triplets were conceived in a bathroom (or whatever), Rebecca was "almost 30 with no kids." So, I take that as her being 30 when they were born. I suppose she could be as young as 28, because people could still refer to that as "almost 30."

But for the sake of math, Jack born 1944, Rebecca born 1950, Trips born 1980. 

[Aloeonatable]

17 hours ago, dlyn said:

I never watched Lost so I haven’t seen Flash Forwards play out on TV before, but it seems really risky on the part of the show. What if something, god forbid, happens to one of the actors? Like John Ritter? Or maybe SKB just takes his buckets of awards and decides to go full steam into movies. They’ve already told us what what the future holds. It seems like they’re painting themselves into a corner. 

Most actors sign 7 year contracts when they are in a series. Not that they can't renegotiate half way through the contract, but I don't think they can leave a show without penalties. 

[Rockstar99435]

On 3/14/2018 at 6:15 AM, Mrs. DuRona said:

Am I the only one who thought Rebecca was going to give Kate her necklace?  A way to honor Jack but still move on?  It would have been a nice moment for both of them.

Me too. I thought that would have been really sweet.

18 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think Deja is not only letting off her frustration, but also testing whether she will be sent away. She didn't do anything wrong and she views it as Shauna dumped her. I think if Beth and Randall dump her, she wants to have it happen sooner than later. But I do hope they handle it well and continue to steer away from stereotypes and TV tropes, as well.

I think that is exactly what she was doing. She knows the car is very important to Randall so she was self-sabotaging by attacking it. She probably thinks that all their talk about love and her being part of their family is just talk, but they'll dump her if it's hard. After all, her mother told her that she loved her and still ended up dumping her, so why not the Pearsons.

[Conotocarious]

Quote

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think that the original plan for Kate was for her to lose significant weight, but then the show was a hit without it, and the network didn't like how it looked when Chrissy leaked that contract thing to the press, so they back pedaled it.  I think Metz is losing weight (some, slowly) but the show is letting her do it at her own pace instead of trying to make it a story point.    

 

If she’s losing weight it must be very very very slowly because she looked like she’d gained to me, or maybe it was that poncho thing she was wearing in the opening scenes that did her no favors.

[monakane]

On 3/13/2018 at 10:21 PM, PRgal said:

I think the flash forward with Randall/Tess was referring to Beth and they were talking about visiting a grave

I think the scene had something to do with Rebecca.  She would be quite old by then.  Also, it CANNOT be Beth.  I won't allow it.

[Nanners]

26 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

Most actors sign 7 year contracts when they are in a series. Not that they can't renegotiate half way through the contract, but I don't think they can leave a show without penalties. 

 

Like the penalties Kevin was supposed to suffer lol. 

[3 is enough]

Quote

If she’s losing weight it must be very very very slowly because she looked like she’d gained to me, or maybe it was that poncho thing she was wearing in the opening scenes that did her no favors.

It's really hard to tell.  She seems to carry most of her weight around her middle-her arms and legs are relatively small.  But if she did lose any significant amount of weight I would imagine it would show in her face, and I haven't seen any change there.

[gonzosgirrl]

Am I delusional in thinking I remember reading before the show premiered that Chrissy/Kate were going to have the gastric bypass and go through the weight loss 'together'?

On the flash forwards: I like the near-future ones, because it's almost a certainty we'll get to see them play out as present day catches up. But a fully grown Tess and a Randall that seems at least 15 years older if not more? Unless they time jump at some point, it's highly doubtful we'll catch up in real time. So will they just leave that dangling? Ugh.

[TVForever]

1 hour ago, jackjill89 said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I let out my breath during the speech with the Pearsons.

So did I. I loved the speech; it just seemed ill-timed in the middle of a reception. It would have been just as poignant (maybe more so) as a private moment before the ceremony, just the four of them in the cabin that they all loved (which was such a connection to Jack, as the episode last season showed).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

And then there's Deja. I'm going to TRY to be charitable and see her current brattiness as a possible guilty feeling. As if feeling or showing any "love" towards the Pearsons is being disrespectful to her bio-mom somehow. In fact, Beth's cousin's (sorry, I'm blanking on her name) talk seemed to break Deja's mood; it was Toby's mother's innocent comment about her looking like Randall that seemed to REALLY set her off. If Show wants to continue with this storyline, I hope next season shows Randall and Beth investing in therapy for this girl. Just so it doesn't suck up too much airtime.

Edited March 15, 2018 by TVForever

[3 is enough]

7 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Am I delusional in thinking I remember reading before the show premiered that Chrissy/Kate were going to have the gastric bypass and go through the weight loss 'together'?

I vaguely remember this, but maybe Chrissy was unable or ultimately unwilling to have the surgery .  Also, I can't imagine that a contract requiring weight loss or surgery to attain it could be legal. Maybe someone with legal expertise could weigh in on this.

[kili]

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I know they can pad someone to look bigger (Toby), but I can't imagine how it would be possible to fake weight loss. 

They can CGI it. Now, when actors have to lose a significant amount of weight, they often use CGI instead. That is really not a healthy thing to do. Two famous instances of the CGI diet are Chris Evans in the first Captain America movie (they couldn't ask an actor to bulk up to Captain America weight while at the same time asking him to slim down to a 98 pound weakling) and Josh Hutcherson in the last two Hunger Games (post-Peeta's starvation thinness and torture wounds were CGI'ed because it wasn't healthy for him to get that thin and most of the movie was post-recovery)..

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I assume that since there has been no significant weight loss the producers/showrunners/writers have adjusted the storyline accordingly.  

If they tried enforcing the contract, they'd look like ogres. They've probably also seen the fan feedback that people don't want Kate to be all about the weight, so that is another motivation to shift storylines. They probably thought it was a great hook to begin with, but actors are real people and they can't always change to suit the script. 

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nope you had it right the first time she was going pin it on her dress

My brain cannot process that so I too assumed that she must have meant pin it inside the dress. I think Toby had a Freudian slip when he forgot to pack it. Who would pin an old t-shirt to their wedding dress?  I guess that is why she went with the big hammer in the bouquet.  Kevin and Rebecca probably did offer their necklaces, but they would have been too subtle for Kate? Jack had to visibly be there.

Did anybody notice if the hammer was the one that Rebecca gave Jack on their anniversary?

[Guest]

I assumed the contract would've just said that she agrees to make reasonable attempts to lose substantial weight, and that the repurcussions of not (if they'd decided to keep it in at all), wouldn't be getting fired but her agreeing to try some other things like a few structured weight loss programs, possibly of the producers' choosing.  That wouldn't be illegal. 

I imagine there are a lot of contractual matters pertaining to appearance in actors' contracts.  They probably all agree not to make any big changes (hair color, cut, tattoos, weight changes, etc.) without getting the show to agree first.  Moore had to wait for a hiatus to go blonde.  

If I was Deja I would've been happy to be compared to Randall if I'd gone my life fatherless and then had this superdad dropped into my life.  

Six months ago People said Metz has been steadily losing weight and that the show does talk to her about it once a year, just to make sure they're on the same page.  But the show is happy to let her drive the pace of things, for the most part, it sounded like. 

She did look slimmer in the face to me this ep.  The width of her face looks smaller.  I kind of think her body does, too.  Her legs used to look tiny in full-body shots, compared to her torso, but now they look less disproportionate to me.  

Edited March 15, 2018 by Guest

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, kili said:

Who would pin an old t-shirt to their wedding dress? 

I was wondering how that wouldn't look like you had a t shirt bunched up under your dress.

Kevin's toast would have been better given at a wake or funeral...way to make a room full of people sad.

I feel like Deja's story could have been dramatic enough without the tire iron to the windshield.   Sometimes the characters in this show are thinly drawn and the writers fall back on stereotypical scenarios instead of reaching for something better.

Where was Toby's brother?  

[Dejana]

7 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

What was Kate going to do with the t shirt anyway?  I missed that.  Cut a piece off and sew to her dress, carry part of it in her bouquet, or did they just not elaborate? 

I don't think chemistry plays much part in having a foster child.  It's not like dating.  You get who they send and do your best with them.  Sullen, scared and apprehensive would probably apply to most adolescents who are shifted around like chess pieces.   As to Raven, she was lively for sure, and she really did have criminal leanings.  I think the family would have to keep an eye on their things, at least initially, with Raven.  What has to happen to make Deja disappear?  Probably something pretty dire and sad. 

I took the original poster to be referring to Deja's chemistry with the family (or supposed lack thereof) in terms of what it means for making a compelling TV show. In real life, no, a foster kid wouldn't be rejected for not having chemistry with everyone else, but when you're writing fictional characters you get to make them any way you want. Obviously, the writers like what they've done with Deja and her personality, but her friend from the last episode shows there are other approaches to take that wouldn't have minimized the struggles of going through the system.

[Blakeston]

I'd really like to know how it became Toby's responsibility to bring the t-shirt in the first place. Why on earth would he be the one to pack it?

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I hope she realizes now how lucky she was not to take after her mother whose features are too small for her pointy chinned face.  I could never understand the hoopla over a woman who looked like every Denny's waitress in the Midwest.  Alexa Ray is dazzling.

I've always been "meh" about Christie - but that is excellent, dead on, bit of shade, and I'm gonna use it, TM JudyObscure.

4 hours ago, kili said:

My brain cannot process that so I too assumed that she must have meant pin it inside the dress. I think Toby had a Freudian slip when he forgot to pack it. Who would pin an old t-shirt to their wedding dress?  I guess that is why she went with the big hammer in the bouquet.  Kevin and Rebecca probably did offer their necklaces, but they would have been too subtle for Kate? Jack had to visibly be there.

If it was that important to her, she ought of have packed it her own damn self. I can't imagine having my husband pack for our wedding trip. Girl's gotta have a few surprises in the bag.

1 minute ago, Blakeston said:

I'd really like to know how it became Toby's responsibility to bring the t-shirt in the first place. Why on earth would he be the one to pack it?

We were on the same wavelength at the same time!

[tennisgurl]

I hope that next season we can take a break from all the drama, and just have the family hang out more and have some fun times. Like, I really loved Kevin and Randall hanging out and doing wedding planning stuff together. It felt very natural, and it was just nice to appreciate some of the nicer family moments, to make the dramatic moments sadder. Really, I just want to see Kevin and Randall bond more, and see how them being closer changes the family dynamic. Especially with Kevin dating Beth's cousin in the future. 

A future Zoe/Kevin and Randall/Beth double date would be hilarious. 

[ShadowFacts]

I'm so glad Toby didn't pack the t-shirt.  The only way I see it working on her dress is if she sewed a small swatch into/onto it.  And would she dare to cut up the shirt she's hung onto for 20 years?  Plus, how did it survive the fire?  It must have been at the cabin I guess.  I think a small bit of a shirt would have been nice sewn into her dress, but could have been done in LA where I assume she got it.  But she had to have a freak-out and an ice cream disappointment to get her closer to letting go.

[Neurochick]

8 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I assumed Randall and Tess were talking about Deja, the way it transitioned from the bat scene to the flash forward.  

Maybe the "her" is a character we haven't met yet.  

[methodwriter85]

10 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Alexa Ray Joel (who is striking) had issues all her life, because her father was Billy Joel and mother was Christy Brinkley and she was the spitting image of Billy Joel. I don't even have to mention Blue Ivy.

Not to mention poor Bobbi Kristina, who had a very beautiful mother but looked like the spitting image of her father instead.

Alexa Ray is honestly very striking, and she's got the kind of look that tends to age very, very well. Billy's face works better on a girl, as seen by her. Same for how Steven Tyler's face works better on a girl with his daughters Liv and Mia. But yeah, it sucks that everyone expected her to be a clone of Christie.

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.  But I feel like this show is too sentimental to handle such a complex issue with any depth.  Deja feels like a caricature, she has no personality to me, just three modes: sullen, scared and apprehensive.  I don’t see any chemistry with her and Randall’s family.  When Beth told Kate that she fell in love with a little girl, it seemed so disingenuous to me.  I’d believe it if she was like the girl from the first foster family, there was some life to her.  And ugh, now they have her for good? What has to happen to make her disappear?  

I get where they're going with this- Deja was never able to develop a personality or be a kid because she was always worrying about her mother. Her life made her hard, angry, and prone to lashing out. But she just doesn't fit into this show, and I wish they had instead gone with them taking in a variety of different kids from different walks of life and races.

Edited March 16, 2018 by methodwriter85

[Quickbeam]

Best part of this episode for me was the Kevin-Randall interaction. It felt flawless. 

[Silly Angel]

We can't have anything nice!!!!

[Violetgoblin6]

On 3/14/2018 at 4:37 AM, DakotaLavender said:

And I think she needs to know that when you destroy the property of the family that has taken you in and been nothing but nice to you, you are taken away and placed elsewhere. Am I being too harsh?

There have been instances where good hearted people adopted children who really showed signs of severe disorders... (I recall a child adopted from Russia who was returned to Russia because he was very destructive to the home and displayed severe bizarre behavior that the parents were unable to fix and they were afraid to live in their own home with him). 

There are limits that a couple has to have and they have to realize that some issues that children have cannot be fixed by a loving and understanding home environment. I think they should cut Deja loose after she took a bat to their car. It's a bad sign. She is a loose cannon and has severe issues. She needs a group home situation where she can receive 24/7 psychological attention. If they keep Deja around, they are putting their own daughters at risk. 

Absolutely. When I was 11, back in 1985, we had Deja (an abandoned female family member, older than my siblings and me) and it was horrible. She was a total loose cannon, cut my face with a  butter knife, kicked me in the stomach, and threw me in the closet. We were a great family with two girls, 11 and 8, and a two year old boy. She really put us through the ringer. Last night my mom and I were freaking out watching Deja. She totally has to go. But as my mom said, Randall got what he wanted and now he's dearly paying for it. 

[LoveLeigh]

25 minutes ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

Absolutely. When I was 11, back in 1985, we had Deja (an abandoned female family member, older than my siblings and me) and it was horrible. She was a total loose cannon, cut my face with a  butter knife, kicked me in the stomach, and threw me in the closet. We were a great family with two girls, 11 and 8, and a two year old boy. She really put us through the ringer. Last night my mom and I were freaking out watching Deja. She totally has to go. But as my mom said, Randall got what he wanted and now he's dearly paying for it. 

I am all for trying to help troubled kids. But, when the child you bring into your home is not grateful and behaves in serious ways to impact your own children and family, she has to go. You do not sacrifice the well being of your family's peace, quiet, and serenity and create chaos and think it will all be OK. She cut her own hair, well OK. She took a bat to his expensive car! THAT is not OK. Deja is a disturbed child who needs round the clock supervision, which love apparently will not cure.  

[maddie965]

I just watched the first 50 seconds of this episode and I'm sobbing out loud. I don't think I ever cried so hard on any TV show ever. What are you doing to me, TIU? *tries to calm down*

[debraran]

5 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I am all for trying to help troubled kids. But, when the child you bring into your home is not grateful and behaves in serious ways to impact your own children and family, she has to go. You do not sacrifice the well being of your family's peace, quiet, and serenity and create chaos and think it will all be OK. She cut her own hair, well OK. She took a bat to his expensive car! THAT is not OK. Deja is a disturbed child who needs round the clock supervision, which love apparently will not cure.  

I've seen and heard all kinds of scenarios with foster children. Most families aren't equipped for the run of emotions these kids have unless well prepared. As they had her friend Raven comment on, shifting around without a firm ground underneath you, never really being loved, the "outsider" to the family dynamic, abused many times, makes it hard to bond with people. It's not a natural thing to live that life. Some kids do better than others but some will always test to see how much they can do and still be accepted (not loved but kept) Deja has abandonment issues and if Beth's sister is the only one that has talked to her, no therapist or person to help with the transition , then shame on the writers. I'll wait and see next year. You need if keeping the child for a long period, to enforce the rules, show love, etc. but you can't expect a nice home and bed to be a cure. Randall wanted to do the right thing, but unless they treat her past with the present, the nice bed and food isn't going to be enough. I'm interested how they deal with it, that much anger needs to be addressed.  I thought the person talking to Deja about looking like Randall knew he wasn't her dad and something just clicked when she looked over at him. This story line I never liked, too rushed, too cliche, too much for melodrama.  ( The poor, unappreciative black foster child, puts a crack in Kate's perfect wedding and ruins her saint of a foster father's car further scarring Tess and Annie)   I hope it improves.

Edited March 16, 2018 by debraran

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

  I thought the person talking to Deja about looking like Randall knew he wasn't her dad and something just clicked when she looked over at him.

I thought for a minute that we were supposed to think (or we were supposed to think Deja thought) that Randall really was her biological father.  It wouldn't be the first time that a father adopted his own child who was the product of an affair.  The I thought, no, not Randall, but Deja could still have thought that.  Kids who don't know who their father is imagine sports stars and singers are their father so this wouldn't be that unusual.

[Trillium]

Tess and Randall are going to a strip

club because Deja and/or Anne/Beth are on the pole. 

[biakbiak]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

thought the person talking to Deja about looking like Randall knew he wasn't her dad and something just clicked when she looked over at him.

I really doubt that Toby's mother would be so cruel to a child she had never met, I mentioned earlier I felt there was colorism involved but its most likely Toby just told his mom that Randall and Beth's girls were going to be at tge wedding without going into the details.

Edited March 16, 2018 by biakbiak

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, biakbiak said:

I really doubt that, Toby's mother would be so cruel to a child she had never met, I mentioned earlier I felt their was colorism involved but its most likely Toby just told his mom that Randall and Beth's girls were going to be at tge wedding without going into the details.

Yes. And given Randall is a black person in a white family, more likely than not the little black girls (2 who were in the wedding) would be his. Toby’s Mom was just being nice to say hello. Toby probably didn’t give her the foster situation etc. 

[luna1122]

I'm often critical of this show, for lots of reasons, but I really did like this episode...most of it anyway. It didn't make me cry, it's never made me cry, but I did have a few 'awww' moments, and even better, it made me laugh. Wedding Planner Kevin was hilarious, and him yelling about gift bags over the phone at someone who turned out to be Randall was my first laugh. I seriously just loved Randall and Kevin's entire dynamic the entire episode. And them getting ice cream (Nutella!) while searching for Kate made me love them both.

I also loved the 'worse case scenario' conversations, they made me laugh out loud. I liked Randall and Beth again too--they're occasionally just too insufferable together, but I loved them here. And I liked Zoe, and covet her big beautiful turquoise earrings. I do think it would have come up that Deja's situation was so very similar to Beth's with Zoe before now, but then again...the Pearsons all kind of make everything about them. Zoe and Kevin together are almost too pretty. But I was one of the few who really liked Sophie too, so I'm a little sad if that is really over.

Kevin's toast started out nicely but it did devolve into maudlin and inappropriate, but then again...that's the Pearsons. But I liked that he acknowledged it was weird.

Kate's dress really was pretty. I hated the timing of Toby's parents' concerns about Kate, but...they are not wrong. Kate is a handful, and emotionally very needy, and they are not wrong to be concerned. Of course, then we flash forward to see that Toby is the one curled up in a fetal position needing help...which....come ON show, you couldn't just let it be nice and happy for 7 seconds? That was so....disheartening.

I like Lyric Ross very much, but is there anything more infuriating and rage inducing than a sullen teenager> (I say as a former very sullen teenager). She has reason to be so sad and angry and disturbed, but her attitude was one thing...and then taking a bat to Randall's beloved car...ugh, I don't even KNOW how they're supposed to react to that. She definitely deserves real punishment and consequences, but I'm not even sure what's appropriate in this case. It does seem as if future Randall and Adult Tess are talking about Future Deja, but the writers probably aren't even sure yet who 'she' is.

I wouldn't have wanted Rebecca to give up her crescent moon necklace to Kate. That necklace is HER touchstone to Jack. Kate can have it when she dies.

 

Did they even mention Toby's brother or why he wasn't there? Speaking of brothers...are Kevin and Zoe going to 'Nam to find a long lost Nicky? Did Jack have another kid over there?

[PRgal]

Since This is Us is all about twists, Jack might not have had a child there, but NICKY.  Oy!  Zoe could be a great role model for Deja, but I have a feeling it isn't the case.  Zoe's situation could be very different as well...

[MsChicklet]

A lot to unpack from this episode.

When it was discovered Jack's shirt wasn't there, why didn't Kevin offer up the pendant? Although Kate carrying a screwdriver down the aisle was awesome.

The way they inserted Old Jack was much better than what was speculated. Yeah, it was fan service. But it was done in a way that allowed Kate to move on a bit.

Kate has shown more growth than she often gets credit for. She has opened herself up to friendship with Madison. She got over herself and brought Audio home to make Toby happy. She was able to let Jack go a bit to make room for Toby. And what she said to Rebecca ... it's what so many moms would love to hear.

Jack's ashes are scattered at two trees. Kind of fitting as he, by breaking away from his family, created the roots of a new family tree with Rebecca.

This Deja thing is getting dark. Kid's life has been out of control for years, between Shawna's fecklessness and being shuttled from one bad foster home to another before landing with Randall and Beth. Now, she doesn't even have say over who her parents are. I don't understand why Shawna jumped straight from letting Randall and Beth be some kind of fosters/guardians to terminating her parental rights.  This is years worth of hurt, fear and anger erupting.

I liked Kevin this episode. His focused wedding planner scenes. Those scenes with Randall in the car (the two of them going nuts for the ice cream, the Worst Case Scenario game) were great and showed the brotherly rapport that had been missing. Not going for Madison. Also ... Kevin and Zoe!

Poor Toby. His brother can't be bothered to come to his wedding. His parents drop their ish on him just an hour or so before the wedding. They had months to express their concerns. And it looks like he's headed for a major depressive episode they will probably blame on Kate.

I was really hoping Madison was going to give out Toblerones as wedding favors.

My guess is that Kevin's war movie with Sly, and now the shared bond of addiction he has with Jack, inspires him to find out more about his dad and Nicky. That side of the family was pretty much a closed door. Nicky died before the kids were born, Jack shut his dad out of their lives, and it doesn't sound like his mother was around, either.

[Katy M]

20 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

On the flash forwards: I like the near-future ones, because it's almost a certainty we'll get to see them play out as present day catches up. But a fully grown Tess and a Randall that seems at least 15 years older if not more? Unless they time jump at some point, it's highly doubtful we'll catch up in real time. So will they just leave that dangling? Ugh.

No, unfortunately, they're going to have regular flash-forwards, just like they have the flashbacks.

[TwoGrayTabbies]

I really don’t think Toby’s mother had any malicious intent with her remark about Deja resembling Randall.  At worst, it was just the sort of stupid thing that adults say to kids they don’t know well.  I actually expected the remark to have a salutary effect, by making Deja feel like she really belonged in the family.  I was surprised it triggered an episode of rage-induced vandalism.

[Gemma Violet]

10 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I am all for trying to help troubled kids. But, when the child you bring into your home is not grateful and behaves in serious ways to impact your own children and family, she has to go. You do not sacrifice the well being of your family's peace, quiet, and serenity and create chaos and think it will all be OK. She cut her own hair, well OK. She took a bat to his expensive car! THAT is not OK. Deja is a disturbed child who needs round the clock supervision, which love apparently will not cure.  

Thank you.  I'm also in favor of helping troubled kids, but not to the point of endangering my family.  If I had a foster kid who bashed in my car with a bat, I'd be thinking it was only a matter of time before he/she bashed in someone's head with a bat.  

Edited March 16, 2018 by Gemma Violet

[ShadowFacts]

32 minutes ago, MsChicklet said:

I was really hoping Madison was going to give out Toblerones as wedding favors.

Would have been funny.

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

Speaking of brothers...are Kevin and Zoe going to 'Nam to find a long lost Nicky? Did Jack have another kid over there?

That was my speculation earlier, now I'm thinking they might uncover something like an atrocity that Jack never spoke of.  There's something a little off about Jack keeping the picture of them sort of hidden away in the garage.  I totally understand wanting to put Vietnam far behind him, but his brother dying there, having been in the same unit, there's more there.  Which could be more compelling than one of them having fathered a child. 

[gonzosgirrl]

44 minutes ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

I really don’t think Toby’s mother had any malicious intent with her remark about Deja resembling Randall.  At worst, it was just the sort of stupid thing that adults say to kids they don’t know well.  I actually expected the remark to have a salutary effect, by making Deja feel like she really belonged in the family.  I was surprised it triggered an episode of rage-induced vandalism.

This! I had a real wtf over that. I know the show likes its plot!twist!!! but that seemed like an OTT reaction to me. Deja has mostly been shown to be responsive to 'good' things, even if it takes a minute. So I expected a little 'damn, thanks for reminding me I'm not a Pearson' followed by 'omg thank you for thinking I'm this great guy's daughter'. 'Imma go trash his awesome car now' never crossed my mind.

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So I expected a little 'damn, thanks for reminding me I'm not a Pearson' followed by 'omg thank you for thinking I'm this great guy's daughter'. 'Imma go trash his awesome car now' never crossed my mind.

I don't know that it's such a good thing in her mind. In order to be Randall's daughter, she can no longer be her mother's daughter.  It would have made me superangry if my mother decided someone else would have been a so much better parent to me that she actually gave me up.  Not at birth before I had a chance to love her and know her and feel rejected on a personal level.  But after 13 years of struggling together, making her feel better when her grandmother died, making you a special birthday dinner, helping you organize your finances.  And I'm still not good enough to keep.  Because you think these guys are better.  And maybe they talked you into something. Well, screw that.  I'm beating in your car. 

This is why if you have any doubt in your mind about being able to care for your child for at least 18 years, give them up when they are newborns.  It will all come out so much better in the end.  I hope, although I really think she did, that grandma didn't talk her into keeping Deja in the first place.

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't know that it's such a good thing in her mind. In order to be Randall's daughter, she can no longer be her mother's daughter.  It would have made me superangry if my mother decided someone else would have been a so much better parent to me that she actually gave me up.  Not at birth before I had a chance to love her and know her and feel rejected on a personal level.  But after 13 years of struggling together, making her feel better when her grandmother died, making you a special birthday dinner, helping you organize your finances.  And I'm still not good enough to keep.  Because you think these guys are better.  And maybe they talked you into something. Well, screw that.  I'm beating in your car. 

This is why if you have any doubt in your mind about being able to care for your child for at least 18 years, give them up when they are newborns.  It will all come out so much better in the end.  I hope, although I really think she did, that grandma didn't talk her into keeping Deja in the first place.

All valid, especially the last paragraph. I was adopted at 4 months old (in Children's Aid from birth) and knew from the beginning that I was 'dopted' :) As a child, it honestly thrilled me when anyone said I looked just like my dad or mom. And as I got older, it amused me, because truly, I looked like neither of them - but I did have the same dark hair/eyes. So yeah, I can understand Deja's reaction better from the POV in your first paragraph, so thank you.

[PRgal]

As I don't think the writers are that nice to millennials (see: Deja's mom), Toby's brother wasn't there because, well, he's a #damnmillennial while Toby, like the Big 3 are "Xennials."  He's probably in Thailand or the Caribbean running some sort of juice bar or something like that.  Yes, I'm horrible. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by PRgal

[Katy M]

27 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

All valid, especially the last paragraph. I was adopted at 4 months old (in Children's Aid from birth) and knew from the beginning that I was 'dopted' :) As a child, it honestly thrilled me when anyone said I looked just like my dad or mom. And as I got older, it amused me, because truly, I looked like neither of them - but I did have the same dark hair/eyes. So yeah, I can understand Deja's reaction better from the POV in your first paragraph, so thank you.

It's actually really funny, because somehow when I was 11-13, I got it in my head that I was switched at birth in the hospital.  There was no talking me out of it.  Even though, the only way you could tell apart a five year old picture of me and a five year old picture of my mom was that hers were black and white and mine were color.  And later, I seemed like I was truly a composite of both my mother and father.  Whoever I'm out with someone will tell me I look like that parent and it's absolutely true.  My mom even told me there was only one other baby in the hospital at the time and that was a boy, so not likely to be able to pull the old switcheroo. But, it didn't matter.  For 2 years, I was on that kick.  LOL.  

[cameron]

23 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

If she’s losing weight it must be very very very slowly because she looked like she’d gained to me, or maybe it was that poncho thing she was wearing in the opening scenes that did her no favors.

I think that she's getting fatter than ever.