Joe & Kendra: Looking Forward To Side Hugs

[Mojitogirl]

35 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

That's the ten-seat Mitsubishi plane. You could see bits of the interior when they flew the Smuggars into Rockford for that encounter with the clown last summer. 

There’s at least 10 people in there if the kid to the right in The forefront is taking the picture as a selfie.  Plus luggage and ski equipment.  Seems like they are pushing the factors of safety there. Dumb as rocks. 

[Sew Sumi]

40 minutes ago, Mojitogirl said:

There’s at least 10 people in there if the kid to the right in The forefront is taking the picture as a selfie.  Plus luggage and ski equipment.  Seems like they are pushing the factors of safety there. Dumb as rocks. 

Agreed. Famy was already on her second puffer coat in IG posts from later in the day. I can only imagine her luggage alone! 

[flyingdi]

Massanuten is basically a timeshare place, I think.  I have relatives that go there and they are Catholics, not Fundy.

[Mollie]

43 minutes ago, flyingdi said:

Massanuten is basically a timeshare place, I think.  I have relatives that go there and they are Catholics, not Fundy.

The website for the resort doesn't mention timeshares or opportunities for private ownership:

https://www.massresort.com/

[Annabel11]

28 minutes ago, Mollie said:

The website for the resort doesn't mention timeshares or opportunities for private ownership:

https://www.massresort.com/

My sister goes there as a timeshare. And pregnancy is not an illness. Women can still enjoy life and adventure while pregnant. In moderation. 

[LilJen]

18 hours ago, drafan said:

That synthetic skirt/slip on the outside of the snowsuit exceeds all my expectations for supreme stupidity. Makes Mullet's swim get-up look positively sane.

 

(ETA: Above sentence brought to you by the letter S.)

Goodness knows, those thick snow pants are EXTREMELY defrauding.

[Catlyn]

I just looked closer at the skirt, it's not even a skirt durable for tubeing. She's pregnant and ill-dressed for the sport. Maybe she has pants under her skirt, but then why not wear a long tunic sweater or a longer coat if you don't want your lady bits shown. 

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, Lady Edith said:

If this was a stunt set up by TLC, shame on them!  There is a REASON that people refer to pregnancy as a “delicate condition” because things ARE delicate.  

Much as I loathe TLC, it seems unlikely to me that the network was behind this piece of idiocy. Almost none of the many people involved are on the current show. I doubt they would have proposed an excursion for which 80 percent of the people involved aren't ones they film -- or are ever likely to film, like Grandma, Amy's hubs, Deanna, a bunch of howlers. If they'd proposed it, they would have had to pay for it, pretty much lock, stock, and barrel. And I think TLC is about as cheap as the Duggars. I guess it's possible they filmed it, but I think it's most likely that, even if they did, they were just going along for the ride. This looks like a family-planned thing to me. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

4 hours ago, Mollie said:

The website for the resort doesn't mention timeshares or opportunities for private ownership:

https://www.massresort.com/

Massanutten's actually a place, and a mountain, not just that main resort. The ski resort is kind of central to the little community, but there are timeshares and cabins and  public parks and all sorts of stuff there that isn't financially or otherwise connected to the resort. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Marigold]

Add me to the list of "snow tubing is a bad idea when pregnant"

Even a minor injury when pregnant is an issue.  She could simply hurt her leg or arm.  Or cut herself on some ice.  Now you have a whole set of complications. Is it broken? Do we need an x ray? Etc.         Why risk an injury when pregnant over snow tubing?????  Snow tubing is not necessary.   

I have been pregnant many times, you'd be surprised, and getting hurt when pregnant is HORRIBLE. Stuck in the ER and no one can do a damn thing until an OB can approve every procedure.   I needed three stitches once when pregnant and I was there for hours and then I didn't agree with the on-call OB on the pain medication and we had to get my personal OB to call back...really a mess over THREE stitches.  I have a ton of stories like that.  Duh, Kendra. 

Kendra is so obviously a teenager with a teenager thought process.  

[xwordfanatik]

2 hours ago, Marigold said:

Add me to the list of "snow tubing is a bad idea when pregnant"

Even a minor injury when pregnant is an issue.  She could simply hurt her leg or arm.  Or cut herself on some ice.  Now you have a whole set of complications. Is it broken? Do we need an x ray? Etc.         Why risk an injury when pregnant over snow tubing?????  Snow tubing is not necessary.   

I have been pregnant many times, you'd be surprised, and getting hurt when pregnant is HORRIBLE. Stuck in the ER and no one can do a damn thing until an OB can approve every procedure.   I needed three stitches once when pregnant and I was there for hours and then I didn't agree with the on-call OB on the pain medication and we had to get my personal OB to call back...really a mess over THREE stitches.  I have a ton of stories like that.  Duh, Kendra. 

Kendra is so obviously a teenager with a teenager thought process.  

And considering pain meds are out when pregnant, broken bones would REALLY hurt.  

Kendra and Joy should be in college together, not married and knocked up.  They are obviously still in their teenage years, as you said @Marigold.

[Temperance]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Much as I loathe TLC, it seems unlikely to me that the network was behind this piece of idiocy. Almost none of the many people involved are on the current show. I doubt they would have proposed an excursion for which 80 percent of the people involved aren't ones they film -- or are ever likely to film, like Grandma, Amy's hubs, Deanna, a bunch of howlers. If they'd proposed it, they would have had to pay for it, pretty much lock, stock, and barrel. And I think TLC is about as cheap as the Duggars. I guess it's possible they filmed it, but I think it's most likely that, even if they did, they were just going along for the ride. This looks like a family-planned thing to me. 

But none of them are persona non grata to TLC either. 

@Marigold Yeah a friend of mine is pregnant and she fell and hurt her knee. The first few days she could barely walk and drive and of course they can't do an x-ray. Fortunately when the swelling went down her knee wasn't broken just severly injured. I also think if you're going down a mountain used for skiing you should have a helmet like the skiers and snowboarders do, because landing on your head would be bad no matter what. 

[sigmaforce86]

3 hours ago, Marigold said:

Add me to the list of "snow tubing is a bad idea when pregnant"

Even a minor injury when pregnant is an issue.  She could simply hurt her leg or arm.  Or cut herself on some ice.  Now you have a whole set of complications. Is it broken? Do we need an x ray? Etc.         Why risk an injury when pregnant over snow tubing?????  Snow tubing is not necessary.   

One more vote for "bad idea".    You can not steer those things - I was severely injured snow tubing because I went off course, couldn't steer and it happened so fast I didn't have the time or thought to just tip myself off the tube (it was more "Oh Crap"-Wham).  We're talking 3 weeks in the hospital and several months rehab.  Now not everyone has that sort of accident but it's like skiing or ski diving...generally known to have an element of danger higher than usual activities so probably not a good idea to do it at a time when you can't afford to injure yourself or possibly the little one inside you.

And..stepping off soap box now.

[ChocolateAddict]

The reason I find it so frustrating is because the Duggars made their fame (and subsequent reality TV careers) off their baby mania. The whole premise of their show was that they were the bestest family with the mostest babies so God loves them more than regular people. Who can forget Michelle's "and I delivered every one of them!" in the intro?  

 

Yet despite this, they don't care at all about proper medical care during pregnancy, risking the lives of Jill, Jessa and their children. Instead of choosing a hospital or heaven forbid, a qualified midwife, Jill was deciding what Bible verses she would use for pain relief! Jessa waiting until she was hemmoraging to seek medical help. God only knows what happened with Sam's birth which lead to an emergency C-section. 

 

Counting On is a repetition of courtship, engagement, marriage, baby announcement, baby, rinse and repeat.  Making babies, having babies, showing off babies is central to their show but they still don't believe in pre or ante natal care. Their entire purpose is to breed an army for Jesus but they don't seem to care if this army is healthy or not. 

 

For people who are obsessed with babies it is beyond frustrating to see a complete disinterest in checking that said babies are actually ok. Maybe I'm wrong and Kendra and Joy are actually receiving the best care Arkansas can offer rather than the best guess of Dr Jill. But given the previous Duggar track record, I'm going to assume that they (like Jill and Jessa before them) are relying on Jesus to keep them safe rather than scientific evidence and trained professionals. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by ChocolateAddict

[mynextmistake]

13 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

And considering pain meds are out when pregnant, broken bones would REALLY hurt.  

Kendra and Joy should be in college together, not married and knocked up.  They are obviously still in their teenage years, as you said @Marigold.

Pain meds aren’t out when pregnant. I believe both hydrocodone/acetaminophen (Norco) and oxycodone/acetaminophen (Percocet) are pregnancy category C, meaning that they can be used when the benefits outweigh the risks.  Untreated severe pain carries a lot of risk for both mother and baby; physiological stress related to pain can cause complications such as increased blood pressure, decreased perfusion, etc. Doctors aren’t going to hand them out like candy, but a pregnant woman with a broken arm isn’t going to be denied pain relief because she’s pregnant. 

[GeeGolly]

13 hours ago, ChocolateAddict said:

The reason I find it so frustrating is because the Duggars made their fame (and subsequent reality TV careers) off their baby mania. The whole premise of their show was that they were the bestest family with the mostest babies so God loves them more than regular people. Who can forget Michelle's "and I delivered every one of them!" in the intro?  

 

Yet despite this, they don't care at all about proper medical care during pregnancy, risking the lives of Jill, Jessa and their children. Instead of choosing a hospital or heaven forbid, a qualified midwife, Jill was deciding what Bible verses she would use for pain relief! Jessa waiting until she was hemmoraging to seek medical help. God only knows what happened with Sam's birth which lead to an emergency C-section. 

 

Counting On is a repetition of courtship, engagement, marriage, baby announcement, baby, rinse and repeat.  Making babies, having babies, showing off babies is central to their show but they still don't believe in pre or ante natal care. Their entire purpose is to breed an army for Jesus but they don't seem to care if this army is healthy or not. 

 

For people who are obsessed with babies it is beyond frustrating to see a complete disinterest in checking that said babies are actually ok. Maybe I'm wrong and Kendra and Joy are actually receiving the best care Arkansas can offer rather than the best guess of Dr Jill. But given the previous Duggar track record, I'm going to assume that they (like Jill and Jessa before them) are relying on Jesus to keep them safe rather than scientific evidence and trained professionals. 

Scientific evidence and trained professionals to most folks encompasses all health care. For the Duggars its emergency medical care.

[xwordfanatik]

5 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

Pain meds aren’t out when pregnant. I believe both hydrocodone/acetaminophen (Norco) and oxycodone/acetaminophen (Percocet) are pregnancy category C, meaning that they can be used when the benefits outweigh the risks.  Untreated severe pain carries a lot of risk for both mother and baby; physiological stress related to pain can cause complications such as increased blood pressure, decreased perfusion, etc. Doctors aren’t going to hand them out like candy, but a pregnant woman with a broken arm isn’t going to be denied pain relief because she’s pregnant. 

I wasn't aware of that, thanks.  

[bythelake]

18 hours ago, ChocolateAddict said:

The reason I find it so frustrating is because the Duggars made their fame (and subsequent reality TV careers) off their baby mania. The whole premise of their show was that they were the bestest family with the mostest babies so God loves them more than regular people. Who can forget Michelle's "and I delivered every one of them!" in the intro?  

 

Yet despite this, they don't care at all about proper medical care during pregnancy, risking the lives of Jill, Jessa and their children. Instead of choosing a hospital or heaven forbid, a qualified midwife, Jill was deciding what Bible verses she would use for pain relief! Jessa waiting until she was hemmoraging to seek medical help. God only knows what happened with Sam's birth which lead to an emergency C-section. 

 

Counting On is a repetition of courtship, engagement, marriage, baby announcement, baby, rinse and repeat.  Making babies, having babies, showing off babies is central to their show but they still don't believe in pre or ante natal care. Their entire purpose is to breed an army for Jesus but they don't seem to care if this army is healthy or not. 

 

For people who are obsessed with babies it is beyond frustrating to see a complete disinterest in checking that said babies are actually ok. Maybe I'm wrong and Kendra and Joy are actually receiving the best care Arkansas can offer rather than the best guess of Dr Jill. But given the previous Duggar track record, I'm going to assume that they (like Jill and Jessa before them) are relying on Jesus to keep them safe rather than scientific evidence and trained professionals. 

This!!! You would think that Jessa would have learned something from the disaster of Spurgeon's birth, but no, she went on to have another at home. She was lucky, and that's what it was,dumb luck. And Jill, if she's able, will have the next one at home as well, because she knows more than licensed professionals, and of course, Jesus. I don't wish any harm to come to these girls, but if they are using Jill as their "midwife" they are fools.

It really strikes me as odd that Meechelle had most of her children in the hospital, and took advantage of every modern medical treatment available, Can you imagine the catastrophe if Josie had been born at home? 

We've hashed this around before, but is it about the cost, or the lack of insurance? They sure have money for everything else. They live and dress like people in the 1800's. But even Little House on the Prairie had a doctor who lived Walnut Grove.

[louannems]

20 hours ago, Temperance said:

But none of them are persona non grata to TLC either. 

@Marigold Yeah a friend of mine is pregnant and she fell and hurt her knee. The first few days she could barely walk and drive and of course they can't do an x-ray. Fortunately when the swelling went down her knee wasn't broken just severly injured. I also think if you're going down a mountain used for skiing you should have a helmet like the skiers and snowboarders do, because landing on your head would be bad no matter what. 

Pregnant women can and do get x-rays when medically indicated. In the case of  knee radiographs, that body part is not near the uterus, and anyway, the entire abdominal area would most definitely be well sheilded with a lead apron. The shutters would be well coned in to the body part being radiograghed.

X-rays taken near the abdomen are another story and most all women of child bearing years require a pregnancy test first.

[Lady Edith]

8 hours ago, bythelake said:

This!!! You would think that Jessa would have learned something from the disaster of Spurgeon's birth, but no, she went on to have another at home. She was lucky, and that's what it was,dumb luck. And Jill, if she's able, will have the next one at home as well, because she knows more than licensed professionals, and of course, Jesus. I don't wish any harm to come to these girls, but if they are using Jill as their "midwife" they are fools.

It really strikes me as odd that Meechelle had most of her children in the hospital, and took advantage of every modern medical treatment available, Can you imagine the catastrophe if Josie had been born at home? 

We've hashed this around before, but is it about the cost, or the lack of insurance? They sure have money for everything else. They live and dress like people in the 1800's. But even Little House on the Prairie had a doctor who lived Walnut Grove.

There is a longstanding belief in Quiverfull that you leave all childbirth issues up to God. Including the actual birth. You don’t surrender yourself to another person (huh?  Headship?) and they took that as meaning doctors.  

Here is an article I posted previously that describes the connection between Quiverfull and the dangerous practice of unassisted home birth.

http://religiondispatches.org/my-womb-for-ihisi-purposes-the-perils-of-unassisted-childbirth-in-the-quiverfull-movement/

I will look for more.  But this is a good overview of the beliefs behind it. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by Lady Edith
Forgot “unassisted” in re:home birth

[Temperance]

7 hours ago, louannems said:

Pregnant women can and do get x-rays when medically indicated. In the case of  knee radiographs, that body part is not near the uterus, and anyway, the entire abdominal area would most definitely be well sheilded with a lead apron. The shutters would be well coned in to the body part being radiograghed.

X-rays taken near the abdomen are another story and most all women of child bearing years require a pregnancy test first.

From what I have seen pregnant women are not allowed to get xrays.My friend who hurt her knee was not able to get an x-ray while pregnant. I gue In her case she knew she was pregnantabout 5/6 months along, and she was not allowed an x-ray. Someone I know was harrassed by a doctor after she broke her foot.  Told by the doctor she couldn't have an x-ray if she was pregnant. She knew she wasn't, because she hadn't sex for a very long time (many, many years). 

Edited December 31, 2017 by Temperance
changing but to because

[madpsych78]

29 minutes ago, Lady Edith said:

There is a longstanding belief in Quiverfull that you leave all childbirth issues up to God. Including the actual birth. You don’t surrender yourself to another person (huh?  Headship?) and they took that as meaning doctors.  

Here is an article I posted previously that describes the connection between Quiverfull and the dangerous practice of home birth.

http://religiondispatches.org/my-womb-for-ihisi-purposes-the-perils-of-unassisted-childbirth-in-the-quiverfull-movement/

I will look for more.  But this is a good overview of the beliefs behind it. 

Great article!

[DangerousMinds]

42 minutes ago, Lady Edith said:

There is a longstanding belief in Quiverfull that you leave all childbirth issues up to God. Including the actual birth. You don’t surrender yourself to another person (huh?  Headship?) and they took that as meaning doctors.  

Here is an article I posted previously that describes the connection between Quiverfull and the dangerous practice of home birth.

http://religiondispatches.org/my-womb-for-ihisi-purposes-the-perils-of-unassisted-childbirth-in-the-quiverfull-movement/

I will look for more.  But this is a good overview of the beliefs behind it. 

If this were the case, WHY do they all end up in the hospital when things go wrong at home? Maybe "god" did not take care of them?

[louannems]

19 minutes ago, Temperance said:

From what I have seen pregnant women are not allowed to get xrays.My friend who hurt her knee was not able to get an x-ray while pregnant. I gue In her case she knew she was pregnantabout 5/6 months along, and she was not allowed an x-ray. Someone I know was harrassed by a doctor after she broke her foot.  Told by the doctor she couldn't have an x-ray if she was pregnant. She knew she wasn't, but she hadn't sex for a very long time (many, many years). 

Some doctors do order x-rays for pregnant women.  I'm sure they don't do it unless truly needed.  I was a registered radiologic technologist for 31 years and I did x-ray some pregnant women.

We sheild, cone in tightly, and use the lowest amount of radiation possible in order to get a great picture the first time.

[Lady Edith]

1 minute ago, DangerousMinds said:

If this were the case, WHY do they all end up in the hospital when things go wrong at home? Maybe "god" did not take care of them?

Well now THAT is the question now isn’t it?  Maybe they can’t accept that God was helping them by giving the doctor and medical staff the knowledge to help them through the pregnancy and childbirth?  These types do not allow anything but their belief system to guide their lives.  They don’t get it that Christianity teaches that God is everywhere and in everything.  They don’t see past their own misguided view of God to their own detriment. 

[Tabbygirl521]

1 hour ago, Lady Edith said:

There is a longstanding belief in Quiverfull that you leave all childbirth issues up to God. Including the actual birth. You don’t surrender yourself to another person (huh?  Headship?) and they took that as meaning doctors.  

Here is an article I posted previously that describes the connection between Quiverfull and the dangerous practice of home birth.

http://religiondispatches.org/my-womb-for-ihisi-purposes-the-perils-of-unassisted-childbirth-in-the-quiverfull-movement/

I will look for more.  But this is a good overview of the beliefs behind it. 

So then what do they make of Jesus terminating Jubilee's pregnancy, etc.? I genuinely can't imagine. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 hour ago, Lady Edith said:

There is a longstanding belief in Quiverfull that you leave all childbirth issues up to God. Including the actual birth. You don’t surrender yourself to another person (huh?  Headship?) and they took that as meaning doctors.  

Here is an article I posted previously that describes the connection between Quiverfull and the dangerous practice of home birth.

http://religiondispatches.org/my-womb-for-ihisi-purposes-the-perils-of-unassisted-childbirth-in-the-quiverfull-movement/

I will look for more.  But this is a good overview of the beliefs behind it. 

Is it terrible that when I read this, it made my mind go immediately to the occasional practicality of the "Darwin Award" means of thinning the herd? 

(of course, I realize there is really no room for snark when it comes to losing a child no matter who you are. My mind does sometimes run toward a slightly morbid sense of humor, so I apologize in advance if this offends anyone)

[Sew Sumi]

If you haven't already done so, Joyce's book. Quiverfull, delves much deeper into the movement. It's a little older than the article, and many fundies are now using hospitals or birthing centers (see the Bateses), but this faction still exists. Anna Marie Maxwell has yet to have a hospital birth, although her SIL Melanie has had all hospital birth because she's a known high-risk. So, even in one family, different schools of thought exist on this topic. 

However, this generation of Duggars seem to be all-in with little to no real medical care, botique ultrasounds only to determine sex, and attempted homebirths, despite prior complications. I have no doubt that Joy and Kendra will follow in Jill and Jessa's ill-advised footsteps. 

[Churchhoney]

5 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

 

However, this generation of Duggars seem to be all-in with little to no real medical care, botique ultrasounds only to determine sex, and attempted homebirths, despite prior complications. I have no doubt that Joy and Kendra will follow in Jill and Jessa's ill-advised footsteps. 

I wonder whether the Duggar thing is due to a combination of a) exciting home births make for the best TeeVee!! and b) we're the Duggars and out of all these nutso bananas people, we're the dumbest, the most oblivious and entitled, and the least informed! Yay!

Edited December 30, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Temperance]

17 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

If you haven't already done so, Joyce's book. Quiverfull, delves much deeper into the movement. It's a little older than the article, and many fundies are now using hospitals or birthing centers (see the Bateses), but this faction still exists. Anna Marie Maxwell has yet to have a hospital birth, although her SIL Melanie has had all hospital birth because she's a known high-risk. So, even in one family, different schools of thought exist on this topic. 

However, this generation of Duggars seem to be all-in with little to no real medical care, botique ultrasounds only to determine sex, and attempted homebirths, despite prior complications. I have no doubt that Joy and Kendra will follow in Jill and Jessa's ill-advised footsteps. 

I don't see that Maxwell example as a different school of thought. I think comes down to one is high-risk and one is low-risk. 

With the Duggars both Jill and Jessa should have been high risk after the difficult first-births. I agree Joy and Kendra will continue to follow in their foot-steps.

[satrunrose]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

I wonder whether the Duggar thing is due to a combination of a) exciting home births make for the best TeeVee!! and b) we're the Duggars and out of all these nutso bananas people, we're the dumbest and the least informed! Yay!

I think a lot of it is the TeeVee. My personal pet theory is that, despite spending most of their lives with cameras in their faces, these girls have so few opportunities to be recognized for their individual skills and accomplishments that they're latching on to home births as their chance to show how much more awesome and Godly they are. Let's face it, the only way to show off as a Gothard girl is to land a guy when you're still in or barely out of your teens, get pregnant on your honeymoon, have a 'perfect birth' that you can brag about to all of the other young fundie wives and repeat the whole party in as close to a year as you can manage. 

[doodlebug]

6 hours ago, Temperance said:

From what I have seen pregnant women are not allowed to get xrays.My friend who hurt her knee was not able to get an x-ray while pregnant. I gue In her case she knew she was pregnantabout 5/6 months along, and she was not allowed an x-ray. Someone I know was harrassed by a doctor after she broke her foot.  Told by the doctor she couldn't have an x-ray if she was pregnant. She knew she wasn't, but she hadn't sex for a very long time (many, many years). 

Pregnant women can and do get Xrays when needed.  It is more likely that either your friend's doctor didn't think an Xray was needed in her case (they really aren't a lot of help in many knee problems) or, due to the very minimal risk, your friend decided not to have it.  Alas, it is also possible that your friend and her orthopedist didn't consult her OB/GYN.  Non-OB/GYN's are notoriously afraid of pregnant women (and lawsuits) and will often decline to perform procedures or give medications in pregnancy despite the very low risk presented.  As noted above, putting a lead apron over the pregnant belly to take a targeted Xray of the knee poses essentially no risk to the baby.  The kiddo would be exposed to more radiation if she went to the beach in July.

Same thing for pain medicine.  A patient of mine was involved in an auto accident at 26 weeks of pregnancy and suffered a compound fracture of her arm (bone was sticking out through her skin).  She was admitted for IV antibiotics and traction so that a surgical repair could be done in a couple days when the swelling went down.  The surgeon who admitted to her told her to 'bite the bullet' because pain medicine was dangerous for babies.  When I got to the hospital, she was weeping from the pain.  You'd better believe I gave her IV morphine and that surgeon a piece of my mind.  She delivered at term, her arm was healed by then and the baby was fine.

[Catfin]

6 hours ago, Lady Edith said:

There is a longstanding belief in Quiverfull that you leave all childbirth issues up to God. Including the actual birth. You don’t surrender yourself to another person (huh?  Headship?) and they took that as meaning doctors.  

Here is an article I posted previously that describes the connection between Quiverfull and the dangerous practice of home birth.

http://religiondispatches.org/my-womb-for-ihisi-purposes-the-perils-of-unassisted-childbirth-in-the-quiverfull-movement/

I will look for more.  But this is a good overview of the beliefs behind it. 

They're all batshit crazy.

[zoomama]

nm - i found it.

Edited December 31, 2017 by zoomama

[riverblue22]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Pregnant women can and do get Xrays when needed.  It is more likely that either your friend's doctor didn't think an Xray was needed in her case (they really aren't a lot of help in many knee problems) or, due to the very minimal risk, your friend decided not to have it.  Alas, it is also possible that your friend and her orthopedist didn't consult her OB/GYN.  Non-OB/GYN's are notoriously afraid of pregnant women (and lawsuits) and will often decline to perform procedures or give medications in pregnancy despite the very low risk presented.  As noted above, putting a lead apron over the pregnant belly to take a targeted Xray of the knee poses essentially no risk to the baby.  The kiddo would be exposed to more radiation if she went to the beach in July.

Same thing for pain medicine.  A patient of mine was involved in an auto accident at 26 weeks of pregnancy and suffered a compound fracture of her arm (bone was sticking out through her skin).  She was admitted for IV antibiotics and traction so that a surgical repair could be done in a couple days when the swelling went down.  The surgeon who admitted to her told her to 'bite the bullet' because pain medicine was dangerous for babies.  When I got to the hospital, she was weeping from the pain.  You'd better believe I gave her IV morphine and that surgeon a piece of my mind.  She delivered at term, her arm was healed by then and the baby was fine.

I had morphine when I was 15 weeks pregnant for a degenerating fibroid.  It was sooo painful, and never was I so happy to get a shot in the hip.  I don't know what they gave me for the days after that but it worked until the pain passed.

[queenanne]

2 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

I had morphine when I was 15 weeks pregnant for a degenerating fibroid.  It was sooo painful, and never was I so happy to get a shot in the hip.  I don't know what they gave me for the days after that but it worked until the pain passed.

I imagine that’s probably a benefit, no?  The doctor plans an extra efficient cocktail to ‘make it count’ for Momma, and shrink the need for second doses?

[riverblue22]

13 minutes ago, queenanne said:

I imagine that’s probably a benefit, no?  The doctor plans an extra efficient cocktail to ‘make it count’ for Momma, and shrink the need for second doses?

Oh, there were further doses, but they were through the IV and I don't know what it was.  But the good news is that my daughter wasn't affected in the least.  Oops, except for the fact that she had terrible problems with fibroids as well that lasted through her entire pregnancy.  She had pain meds and a healthy baby too.

[MunichNark]

Kendra and Joy will be teenagers Mothers. It doesn't make it any better that they are married. They both went from little girls to Mothers in a flash, with no time to grow and mature. I shudder to think about the world they live in. It's terrifying.

[Churchhoney]

37 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

It doesn't make it any better, but Joy-Anna is/will be 20 when her baby is born. Kendra will be the only teen mom of the group. 

And just think -- by the time they're 25, they'll be starting their careers as schoolteachers -- and not just teachers but teachers who teach, feed toddlers directly from cans, collect the dirty diapers that they've piled up on dressers and breastfeed  -- all at the same time!

And we call them a lazy and unaccomplished bunch. They're superwomen and no doubt future MOTY.

Imagine how well educated the next wave of grandbabies will be, after spending their days learning everything that Joy-Anna and Kendra know. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by Churchhoney

[leighdear]

While I abhor the entire fundie mindset and am NO apologist for their lifestyles, I think Joy & Kendra (and the rest of the birthing-age females) actually have advantages so many young mothers don't have. 

They are constantly surrounded by family members.  Terrifying is being a new mom with a sick baby, no idea what is wrong and nobody to help.  These girls won't have to deal with that because NONE of them are ever alone.  They are enveloped in a cocoon of moms, sister-moms, cousin-moms and neighbor-moms to actually deal with the baby when necessary.

The entire extended clan does child-raising by committee.  There is always somebody available to console, advise or just take the damn kid when a mommy gets overwhelmed or doesn't know what to do.  It's the ultimate sweet deal for a lazy and uneducated female, no matter her age.  And with a few exceptions, all the kids survive unscathed and seem pretty physically healthy overall.  I won't address their mental health.

Sure, the teen mom thing these girls do looks crazy to most of us normal folks, but they're living their own version of normal.  And they really don't have anything better to do.  Within the Quiver confines, they aren't allowed to do anything else. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by leighdear

[lascuba]

3 minutes ago, leighdear said:

While I abhor the entire fundie mindset and am NO apologist for their lifestyles, I think Joy & Kendra (and the rest of the birthing-age females) actually have advantages so many young mothers don't have. 

They are constantly surrounded by family members.  Terrifying is being a new mom with a sick baby, no idea what is wrong and nobody to help.  These girls won't have to deal with that because NONE of them are ever alone.  They are enveloped in a cocoon of moms, sister-moms, cousin-moms and neighbor-moms to actually deal with the baby when necessary.

The entire extended clan does child-raising by committee.  There is always somebody available to console, advise or just take the damn kid when a mommy gets overwhelmed or doesn't know what to do.  It's the ultimate sweet deal for a lazy and uneducated female, no matter her age.  And with a few exceptions, all the kids survive unscathed and seem pretty physically healthy overall.  I won't address their mental health.

Sure, the teen mom thing these girls do looks crazy to most of us normal folks, but they're living their own version of normal.  And they really don't have anything better to do.  Within the Quiver confines, they aren't allowed to do anything else. 

Yeah, I'm with you, there. The main problem with teen pregnancy is lack of money and support. These particular teem moms don't have that problem. There are other reasons why them procreating is a bad thing, but the typical concerns of teen parenthood aren't it. 

[Churchhoney]

5 minutes ago, leighdear said:

While I abhor the entire fundie mindset and am NO apologist for their lifestyles, I think Joy & Kendra (and the rest of the birthing-age females) actually have advantages so many young mothers don't have. 

They are constantly surrounded by family members.  Terrifying is being a new mom with a sick baby, no idea what is wrong and nobody to help.  These girls won't have to deal with that because NONE of them are ever alone.  They are enveloped in a cocoon of moms, sister-moms, cousin-moms and neighbor-moms to actually deal with the baby when necessary.

The entire extended clan does child-raising by committee.  There is always somebody available to console, advise or just take the damn kid when a mommy gets overwhelmed or doesn't know what to do.  It's the ultimate sweet deal for a lazy and uneducated female, no matter her age.  And with a few exceptions, all the kids survive unscathed and seem pretty physically healthy overall.  I won't address their mental health.

Sure, the teen mom thing these girls do looks crazy to most of us normal folks, but they're living their own version of normal.  And they really don't have anything better to do.  Within the Quiver confines, they aren't allowed to do anything else. 

I'd like this a lot better, though, if so much of it weren't going to be at the expense of pre-teen and teenage girls.

Aside from Jana, none of the adult Duggar women will ever be available to help out, since they'll all either be having their own families.... or they're Meeechelle. ........... 

Kendra's mom may well be quite supportive of her, and of course that's good, But of course her level of availability's going to depend on whether she has multiple more kids of her own. 

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

 

Aside from Jana, none of the adult Duggar women will ever be available to help out, since they'll all either be having their own 

I agree. I think the "it takes a village" mentality only applies so long as there's a spinster daughter at home to do the babysitting. I never see Jill and Jessa watching each other's kids or Joy taking her nieces and nephews for the day or anything like that. The grandkids are always dumped at the TTH, which means Jana is stuck doing the work. 

[Sew Sumi]

Hannie is 12. I'm sure she's been wrangled into auntie-mom duty since Spurge was born. Jenni is probably just about there as well, taking some of the load off of Jana with child labor. Mechelle? She might give them a kiss when they're dropped off, then ignore them...unless there's a photo-op to be had.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[cmr2014]

20 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Hannie is 12. I'm sure she's been wrangled into auntie-mom duty since Spurge was born. Jenni is probably just about there as well, taking some of the load off of Jana with child labor. Mechelle? She might give them a kiss when they're dropped off, then ignore them...unless there's a photo-op to be had.

I think you're giving J'chelle too much credit. I think that both she and JB have private space where they spend virtually all of their time. They may wander through the mosh pit of children from time to time, but I doubt they have any idea who's in the house at any given time.

[Fostersmom]

52 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Hannie is 12. I'm sure she's been wrangled into auntie-mom duty since Spurge was born. Jenni is probably just about there as well, taking some of the load off of Jana with child labor. Mechelle? She might give them a kiss when they're dropped off, then ignore them...unless there's a photo-op to be had.

I don't think Michelle even cares about a photo op. When was the last time there was a pic of her even holding one of the grandkids? I think JimBob does at least love and enjoy being around his kids and grandkids. Michelle has no use or love for any of them she's not able to currently breast feed. 

[Churchhoney]

2 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

Michelle has no use or love for any of them she's not able to currently breast feed. 

Maybe there's some kind of electronic udder implant she could get to bring back her heart for infants.

Since the "heart for children" thing has never been on the table. 

[bythelake]

17 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Maybe there's some kind of electronic udder implant she could get to bring back her heart for infants.

Since the "heart for children" thing has never been on the table. 

Sort of like a pacemaker for her boobs?

[Genevrier]

On 12/30/2017 at 2:44 PM, Jynnan tonnix said:

Is it terrible that when I read this, it made my mind go immediately to the occasional practicality of the "Darwin Award" means of thinning the herd? 

(of course, I realize there is really no room for snark when it comes to losing a child no matter who you are. My mind does sometimes run toward a slightly morbid sense of humor, so I apologize in advance if this offends anyone)

Honestly, Darwin Award has crossed my mind more than once with these people. I am also given to darker humor.

[mynextmistake]

On 12/30/2017 at 3:33 PM, doodlebug said:

Pregnant women can and do get Xrays when needed.  It is more likely that either your friend's doctor didn't think an Xray was needed in her case (they really aren't a lot of help in many knee problems) or, due to the very minimal risk, your friend decided not to have it.  Alas, it is also possible that your friend and her orthopedist didn't consult her OB/GYN.  Non-OB/GYN's are notoriously afraid of pregnant women (and lawsuits) and will often decline to perform procedures or give medications in pregnancy despite the very low risk presented.  As noted above, putting a lead apron over the pregnant belly to take a targeted Xray of the knee poses essentially no risk to the baby.  The kiddo would be exposed to more radiation if she went to the beach in July.

Same thing for pain medicine.  A patient of mine was involved in an auto accident at 26 weeks of pregnancy and suffered a compound fracture of her arm (bone was sticking out through her skin).  She was admitted for IV antibiotics and traction so that a surgical repair could be done in a couple days when the swelling went down.  The surgeon who admitted to her told her to 'bite the bullet' because pain medicine was dangerous for babies.  When I got to the hospital, she was weeping from the pain.  You'd better believe I gave her IV morphine and that surgeon a piece of my mind.  She delivered at term, her arm was healed by then and the baby was fine.

As an RN and a mom, I think the U.S. has lost its goddamn mind when it comes to how pregnant women are treated here. I personally felt like the minute my pee stick turned pink, I lost all my autonomy and became a giant incubator. No alcohol, cigarettes, or street drugs, fine. But the rest of the banned list was ridiculous. No soft cheese. No lunch meat. No bagged salads or soft-serve ice cream. No caffeine. And god forbid you have to take prescription drugs for an actual medical condition. I took phenergan for hyperemesis and on the rare occasion I mentioned that to somebody you would think I had confessed to smoking meth. “You’re taking... pills?” they would gasp while clutching their pearls. “Can’t you just tough it out? It’s only 9 months!” My iron had gotten so low I needed IV treatment, and my hair was falling out from vitamin deficiencies, but damn it what if my baby was born with a tail or something?

Fortunately I had an awesome OB who had been practicing for 40 years and who told me I could have a cup of coffee every day and that I should just take the damn phenergan and stop puking 17 times a day and that he didn’t really care that much if I ate Brie as long as it was pasteurized. But other people were in-freaking-sane. I had a lady come up to me at the park, look at my coffee, and snarl “I hope that’s decaf.” Just absolutely insane. 

My daughter was fine, btw. Except for the tail. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by mynextmistake
Grammar is our friend.