S05.E01: Forty: Part One/S05.E02: Forty: Part Two

[Bulldog]

34 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Line of the night was Randall saying of course he knew who Maddison was she was the only friend in the whole family!

Well, he does have Malick.

 

2 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

Oh poor, poor Randall. Could have been raised by drug addicts in a tenement but instead was raised by a loving family who seemed to have enough money and a mother who seemed more interested in the baby she adopted than her two surviving children, went to private school, went to college and has lots of money. He’s so oppressed. 

[Monibella]

Aaaand TIU just got political and reminded me of everything I want to forget..this show is supposed to be an escape..not a reminder.  TSK TSK producers...and now it’s turning into DOOL with people coming back from the dead.  Also I LOVE Beth.  Randall have sex with your Sexy Ass wife who is offering!  Geez this show.  If my husband told me “not now” after literally throwing myself at him?!?  I think Randall might have “The Corona”’.

[HollyGoLitely333]

40 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

So, we're supposed to believe that super rich movie star Kevin Pearson uses Pert (not even Pert Plus!) shampoo and not some fancy salon product?  

He was disgusted by it - it was the shampoo that was at the cabin and he was grossed out looking at it. 

My husband's family has a cabin in the Poconos (where this cabin is located) and I completely identify with this. I swear there is Irish spring soap that's been there since 1985. We bring our own toiletries but the stuff that's just always been there has...always been there. That's why he said that thing about "I like rustic life but..." when he noticed that Madison was upset and the conversation changed pace to discuss her fall. 

[wonderwoman]

11 minutes ago, phalange said:

That conversation with Randall and Kate needed to happen, because he's right that he shouldn't have to pretend like everything is fine to make his white family members comfortable. He even started to say "I'm fine" when he called his therapist and it's good he'll be finding another therapist he can be more open with. 

so glad the show addressed this. the idea that discussions about racism shouldn’t upset white people underlies why race remains such a divisive issue in this country. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by wonderwoman

[methodwriter85]

9 hours ago, anna0852 said:

I am somehow not shocked at all by that ending.

I wasn't, either. I wouldn't put anything past this show. I'm expecting it to turn out that Kyle was switched with a dead baby and he's been alive this entire time.

Edited October 28, 2020 by methodwriter85

[Brinny]

45 minutes ago, ShortyMac said:

I don't need to see Randall find Laurel, we did it with William.

Right? How did that conversation go in the writer’s room? 

”What if Randall decides to find his birth parents?”

”Yeah, we already did that. First episode of the series. He found his dad. There was a whole season about it.”

”But what if he found his MOM?”

”Oh. We’ve already established that she died of an overdose and that’s why William had to leave Randall at the fire station.”

”But what if she wasn’t dead?”

”I think we’ve mentioned several times throughout the series that she is, though.”

”BUT WHAT IF SHE WASN’T?”

”Genius.”

[Toonces464]

19 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

Plot twist, Laurel is rescued, begins recovery in rehab and is Randall’s future therapist.

I was thinking one of his constituents who voted against him.

[kissedbyarose]

I have mixed emotions about the entire episode but that ending was straight bullshit. 

[LexieLily]

I was also irritated with the on-call OBGYN that dealt with Madison in the first hour. According to Kevin they were "in the middle of nowhere," but there's a woman in your exam room that is expecting twins, you tell her you can only hear one heartbeat, then you leave (presumably to get another doctor) and when you come back and do hear two heartbeats the only thing you say is "well, that was unesecarily exciting"?

Yeah, I'm glad that Kevin/Madison won't be going back to that doctor.  

[t7686]

57 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

They should just change the name of the show to This Is Randall. Ugh. 
 

I like Kevin, Madison, Toby and Miguel. The others are just too annoying. Oh poor, poor Randall. Could have been raised by drug addicts in a tenement but instead was raised by a loving family who seemed to have enough money and a mother who seemed more interested in the baby she adopted than her two surviving children, went to private school, went to college and has lots of money. He’s so oppressed. 

I don’t think he’s trying to negate that. This is why he’s been keeping his distance I think and why he’s a little off. He knows he lucked out but that doesn’t negate the fact that he’s still black. He loves his family and them him, they’ll get there. I think him not just saying he’s “fine” is the first step and a realistic response.
 

I liked Randall for the first time in a long time and as someone mentioned unthread, I felt seen. This is exactly how I’ve been feeling these past few months. 

57 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

 

57 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

Edited October 28, 2020 by t7686
Repeated multiple times for some reason

[MrsWitter]

TIU really stabbed me in the heart using John Prine’s last song (“I Remember Everything”) towards the end of the second episode. I still feel so much sadness about his death, but it was an excellent and appropriate choice for this episode, both because of the topic of the song and the context of his passing.

[JKL845]

So next season the shocker will be that Jack didn't really die either. 

[OhSarah69]

47 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

They should just change the name of the show to This Is Randall. Ugh. 
 

I like Kevin, Madison, Toby and Miguel. The others are just too annoying. Oh poor, poor Randall. Could have been raised by drug addicts in a tenement but instead was raised by a loving family who seemed to have enough money and a mother who seemed more interested in the baby she adopted than her two surviving children, went to private school, went to college and has lots of money. He’s so oppressed. 

Yeah...except money isn't everything.  Randall has a hole in his life story, only partially filled by the relationship he got to have with William.  It's natural for him to wonder about his mother, about what could have been.  William and Laurel weren't just drug addicts in a tenement - they were people first.  Laurel was beautiful, young, had ambition, and William was a dreamer, a poet.  Yes, in practical terms, the fact that their lives were partly consumed and then tragically altered by addiction can't be denied, and yes, practically speaking, no child should have to grow up in insecure or dangerous conditions, so yes, Randall escaped all that.  But you can be raised or loved by flawed people, and still hunger for that connection, still want to know a mother or father who isn't perfect but is the reason we exist.  (I get not everyone feels that, but I'm speaking for myself). I can't believe just because Randall was raised by a "nice", white family in a good home, he wouldn't have questions and heart-searching as he got older about his origins.  He knows he was left behind as a baby, and it's not a coincidence that he tries to rewrite history by trying to control people, situations and outcomes.  So it's not a case of "get over it".  Get me?  Having said that - yes, I would love for him to dial back the drama and not be the death's head at every feast (I think that is the expression?).  I hope he continues with therapy with a new therapist and we get to see that evolution.

I am coming around to liking Madison (mostly 'cause she's not another Pearson!).  I remember the character as very brittle/fragile earlier on, and used to find her annoying.  She seems more level-headed and dare I say it, grown up now.  Don't know that I buy Kevin's mushy feelings for her all of a sudden, though I'm glad he's there for the mother of his child.  Who knows!  Toby has grown on me - I can appreciate his dad joke-like lines and I like that he called Miguel "Miggs" tonight.  Still impressed by Mandy Moore's Older Rebecca  - I swear I keep forgetting she's not that age in real life.  Overall, I really missed this show, with its little in-jokes, musical snippets and weaving back and forth in time, and frequently, regularly, giving the feels.  Hope they can get a nice full season out!

 

[memememe76]

Metz’s scene with Randall was her best work ever on the show. I am really enjoying Kate’s growth. 

[tinderbox]

Instead of the possibility of Randall’s birth mother being alive, I’d rather see a storyline where Kyle Is still alive.  (NOT that I’m thrilled with bringing any aforementioned family members to the forefront.)  

[nilyank]

 

I don't know if Laurel is still alive 40 years later, but I am also 100% certain that Randall's new black therapist is going to be somehow related to her. Either spouse or child. Not the actual therapist, because there will be a bunch of episodes where the show will milk it before we see the therapist meeting/talking about Laurel after having a session with Randall.

[PepSinger]

1 hour ago, Monibella said:

Randall have sex with your Sexy Ass wife who is offering!  Geez this show.  If my husband told me “not now” after literally throwing myself at him?!?  I think Randall might have “The Corona”’.

Mental health issues can have a negative effect on libido. I can understand it being difficult to have an erection when you are depressed.

[buckboard]

Randall is so full of it.  He's po'd that his sister never talked about his being Black when they were growing up, but now that she brings it up - when the entire COUNTRY is for the first time really having discussions about Black and white relations, his response is, you've never mentioned this before so I don't want to talk to you now.  And he blames her because he never brought up how difficult it was for him growing up in a white household, because Saint Randall didn't want to upset his white siblings.   BS.  He and his parents tried to discuss racial issues with him, although they might not have done the best job of it.  But they tried.  

[buttersister]

Seems like Randall’s next therapist and his birth mother are related some way. Bringing her back to life without a connection feels too random in a show that’s kinda passed on random.

Hats off to the writers and SKB for showing Randall finally having enough. It feels like every time it came up before or was hinted at, Jack or Rebecca would over compensate and Randall would shove it back down. Dealing with the real world, they presented conversations, long overdue, that many people are having. It was insightful and the beginning, I hope, of real character growth. Randall’s girl dad comments were just like him and will totally be Kevin. It felt real when he stopped himself and got going back to his family. Not because he was being mean to Kevin, but kind to himself.

 

[Spencer Hastings]

For the first time in awhile, I was on board with one of Randall’s tangents.  When everything went down, suddenly every white friend I’ve had in the past 34 years (spoiler alert: all of my friends are white) wanted to apologize for what was happening.  They wanted to let me know that they see me and that they’re here to listen and is there anything they can do?  But like Randall said, it became exhausting because this isn’t anything new. This has been happening for centuries. But you want to talk now? Now you see me when it’s suddenly trendy and the world is on fire? Randall shouldn’t have had to reassure Kate and help her process this now that she finally sees the issue. It’s not his job to let her know how she can help him or how she can feel less guilt.  The show nailed it with this one. I was also glad to see Kate take the time to reflect and really think about Randall’s words. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Spencer Hastings

[pennben]

The phrase, oh for fucks sake, came to mind on the last minute reveal.  Jesus.  See you at mid season finale to see how this plays out...don’t need the rest.  Honestly, I knew it was a crapshoot to watch this, but was so hoping for something good as I’m starved for new tv, but that twist? No thank you. 

[greeneyedscorpio]

3 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

 

And of course Randall was the one who realized about Rebecca’s medication.

I thought for sure Randall was gonna be hella pissed at Miguel for letting her take the Benadryl.  I was shocked that he didn't rake Miguel over the coals.  

 

[greeneyedscorpio]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

I was also irritated with the on-call OBGYN that dealt with Madison in the first hour. According to Kevin they were "in the middle of nowhere," but there's a woman in your exam room that is expecting twins, you tell her you can only hear one heartbeat, then you leave (presumably to get another doctor) and when you come back and do hear two heartbeats the only thing you say is "well, that was unesecarily exciting"?

Yeah, I'm glad that Kevin/Madison won't be going back to that doctor.  

I agree.  That totally pissed me off.  

[NUguy514]

I got approximately seven minutes into this and have decided I'm out.  I've been living in this pandemic just like the rest of the real world for over seven months; I live in LA, which has not been able to get a handle on COVID because too many people who live in this city are either idiotic or gallingly self-centered or both; I've been mostly isolated because of my current distrust of most public spaces and the idiotic, self-centered people, who can't even manage to wear a mask properly when a grocery store or whatever requires it, frequenting them; I have participated in exactly three small social gatherings since March because my friends and I are trying to be cautious and responsible; I won't allow anyone else into my apartment out of an abundance of caution; and it all totally, totally, totally, completely sucks.  I'm surrounded by COVID all. the. time.  Just like everyone else.  I do not want to see it reflected in a television show I watch for entertainment and escape, not while I'm living in it.  Also, I just can't deal with Randall anymore.  When I saw his smug, martyred face, I just wanted to punch it so many times, and I don't want to experience those feelings either.  So, I'm out.

[project90]

3 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Plot twist, Laurel is rescued, begins recovery in rehab and is Randall’s future therapist.

I had the same thought 

 

3 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I am too lazy to go back and rewatch the pilot, but I swear when Randall met William he referred to his PI tracking down that his birth mother must have been a woman who died from a drug overdose the day he was left at the fire station.  So there were actual records of a dead woman, it wasn't just WiIlliam's word. I guess I should reserve judgement until they explain it, but it still feels like a retcon.

found him. My father.

What? When?

I, uh... I hired a guy. It cost about 1,500 bucks. Now, I paid for it on the Amex. You're gonna see it. It's the personal Amex, not the business Amex.

I know, I don't care about the Amex.

I know.

So you're gonna...

No.

Why not?

Because she was a crack addict who died during childbirth, and he was the guy who left me at a fire station, probably because he couldn't think of anything more cliché.

 

[SadieT]

I didn't mind the show incorporating real-world events into the story but to see Randall shut his very loving family out because they're not black and therefore don't understand his struggle was just a whole level of sad I did not need at this time. 

I'm kind of into the Kevin and Madison thing although I wish they had allowed them to come together slower. 

Overweight couples who aren't rich and famous face a lot of obstacles when adopting, many foreign adoptions even have BMI restrictions. I don't think there's any official regulations on domestic adoptions in America but it's very unlikely that your run-of-the-mill middle class overweight couple like Toby and Kate would be chosen so quickly.  

[MsJamieDornan]

I'm not sure how I feel about this episode. I used to be Randall's biggest fan. Sadly, I'm over that.

[MoonMountain]

2 hours ago, nilyank said:

 

I don't know if Laurel is still alive 40 years later, but I am also 100% certain that Randall's new black therapist is going to be somehow related to her. Either spouse or child. Not the actual therapist, because there will be a bunch of episodes where the show will milk it before we see the therapist meeting/talking about Laurel after having a session with Randall.

YUP! As soon as it ended, I said "his therapist is going to be his bio-mom." But that's too easy for this show. Laurel will survive, have another son (or daughter), and the new therapist will turn out to be Randall's half-sibling.

[pennben]

36 minutes ago, MoonMountain said:

As soon as it ended, I said "his therapist is going to be his bio-mom." But that's too easy for this show.

Is it though????!

[debraran]

6 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Randall's bio-mom is alive?!

Also, am I the only one that had the suspicion the majority of the episode that William had purposefully or maliciously given her the drug that (almost) killed her, or overdosed her? Especially when Bio-Mom of Randall (Laurel?) made William promise that he would give Baby Randall a family if she couldn't be the mother he deserved. That was soon after she didn't get the assistant manager job so they couldn't get the apartment with the window.

I don't think he was very healthy then either so who knows? Addicts are codependent with each other but he wasn't the same man Randall met later. I think I'm not alone that Randall's mom wasn't dead. Many posts early on when he met William had doubts about the ambiguity of her death, the "I never saw her body again, I don't know where she is buried etc" I thought they gave up on it though but I guess not. I do feel the gasp was a bit much for this show, more like a soap opera ending, but I'll forgive them. I expected it when the medic wanting him stop so soon. Hey I watched a lot of ER ! lol

I am the parent of mixed children and liked how Randall told Kate he was exhausted and it was expected but sad to read the white privilege comments on FB etc about his "attitude" and how he could have helped himself and "how were his parents supposed to know" That's the point, you should reach out of your bubble. No one thinks twice about understanding how a handicapped person might be perceived by others but no one wants to look at race or the bias they grew up with. I always was an overly empathetic person but even I can't walk in my children's shoes. The best I can do is try to change places and know that what disgusts me on TV is even scarier for them. It breaks my heart to hear my son say how he knows people watch him in stores or how he is afraid if his tail light is out, how a cop will approach him (and his dad is one!) He was tackled walking into his school where he works because he put his hood up in the  rain and walking fast to the entrance, someone thought he was a stranger. So many things big and small but I'm proud of them and hope one day what they see will be less.

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by debraran

[debraran]

4 hours ago, t7686 said:

I don’t think he’s trying to negate that. This is why he’s been keeping his distance I think and why he’s a little off. He knows he lucked out but that doesn’t negate the fact that he’s still black. He loves his family and them him, they’ll get there. I think him not just saying he’s “fine” is the first step and a realistic response.
 

I liked Randall for the first time in a long time and as someone mentioned unthread, I felt seen. This is exactly how I’ve been feeling these past few months. 

 

I think the fact Rebecca kept William from him all those years out of "loving selfishness" was pretty hard since William was sick. I'm not saying to just let it go or hold a grudge, both are wrong in a way, but he needs to talk about it. He was treated differently and although his parents loved him, they never really show (except with Jack at karate) them trying to see the world through his eyes. Randall said what my mixed daughter did the other day, I'm so tired of making my white coworkers and friends feel better about themselves. I'm tired of pretending I don't care about dumb things they say or how shallow they sound. She did say after a few read the book "White Fragility" it helped. Someone on her school board had a meeting about it and how to learn how reach out differently to some of their students.

She also looked for a black therapist once and it's not easy but easier in a larger city where we live. There are white therapists that do a ton of research on race and diversity and are very good but nothing is close to living it. She saw that when she met a woman once who immediately knew how she felt and asked pertinent questions. A black therapist wont say how lucky Randall was to have his family, but look at how he had to deal with always being different but everyone pretending he wasn't. (except his grandmother) Did they ever give Randall "the talk" you have to give minority children about law enforcement and others?  That might come up later.

Edited October 28, 2020 by debraran

[bybrandy]

10 minutes ago, debraran said:

No one thinks twice about understanding how a handicapped person might be perceived by others

This, sadly is very, very, very untrue.    It is far less dangerous for a handicapped person to interact with the world in terms of losing their life for simply trying to live their life.  But almost nobody, when not physically confronted with a handicapped person, considers how they are perceived.  

How often have you sat in a doctors office or hospital waiting room, for instance, an considered whether there is a place where a wheelchair user can exist.   There is?  Well, that's a start.   Can people get around the wheelchair user without jostling them, banging into them,  or having to ask them if they could move a bit because they are sort of in a major traffic lane?   Now, what if a second wheelchair user came in?  What if somebody had a walker?  Next time you're in a public space where handicapped people should be able to exist (all of them) really take a moment to consider if they can.    
 

[Lisa418722]

I wonder how COVID and BLM changed the first 15 minutes of the show from what they originally had planned.  Especially since COVID was why Rebecca's trial was canceled.  

I wanted to see Malik and Deja together because last year he looked like he was 12 years old when he was with her, but it seemed that he looked more "grown up" this year.

I enjoyed the scene with Toby and Miguel. They are both Pearson outsiders and they realize they will never be allowed inside the Pearson bubble.  I'm liking Kevin and Madison.  When Kevin pulled her mask down to see her smile made me smile.  Who would have thought I would be behind this pairing.

Randall is just too special.  He figures out why Rebecca had her memory problems.  Then he goes off on Kate. At the end it felt like Kevin was reaching out, telling Randall about the twins and Randall still shut him down.  And OF COURSE his mom just has to be alive because it's ALL ABOUT RANDALL.  

On a shallow note, can we have more scenes of Kevin coming out of a shower.  

Edited October 28, 2020 by Lisa418722

[debraran]

14 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

This, sadly is very, very, very untrue.    It is far less dangerous for a handicapped person to interact with the world in terms of losing their life for simply trying to live their life.  But almost nobody, when not physically confronted with a handicapped person, considers how they are perceived.  

How often have you sat in a doctors office or hospital waiting room, for instance, an considered whether there is a place where a wheelchair user can exist.   There is?  Well, that's a start.   Can people get around the wheelchair user without jostling them, banging into them,  or having to ask them if they could move a bit because they are sort of in a major traffic lane?   Now, what if a second wheelchair user came in?  What if somebody had a walker?  Next time you're in a public space where handicapped people should be able to exist (all of them) really take a moment to consider if they can.    
 

I see that, I work in a medical field, but people see them and talk to their kids about why someone is in a wheel chair etc. I do know they aren't given respect other than many parking spots when it comes to other accessibility. I had to fight for over a year for an automatic door for our patients.  Many don't think about chairs, another fight I lost, no arms to help people up, wider chairs, etc. But I keep trying.

In a perfect world, my mixed children and others can have good friends (as they have) and neighbors but you need to know that many wont see them that way. They will have a bias taught to them by others, sometimes very young. I'm sure some parents shield their kids from people who are different or handicapped and forget to use empathy for them to see what it's like with a disability. Many also teach how black children should be grateful to be middle class or not care about fairness if they are given a good job. Be grateful and shut up.  Why should Randall be grateful any more than any child adopted or fostered? He should just be loved.

I heard a parent say they didn't want my mixed twins over for a party at 4 because "I don't want my kids to think that is right" meaning black/white marriages.  I heard a parent say also "then don't invite mine"  Her daughter understood someone was judging my kids unfairly without a lot of explanation. I heard a kid in a grocery cart ahead of mine say my kids were dirty because of their tan and her mom didn't say, "no that's her skin color" so she kept letting her say it. My daughter looked confused, so I corrected her and got a look from Mom. When she walked away the cashier said to me, those things start planting the seed for later bigotry.  It doesn't matter how the bias is presented or with color or handicap, the ignoring it, makes it worse.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by debraran

[bybrandy]

54 minutes ago, debraran said:

I see that, I work in a medical field, but people see them and talk to their kids about why someone is in a wheel chair etc. I do know they aren't given respect other than many parking spots when it comes to other accessibility. I had to fight for over a year for an automatic door for our patients.  Many don't think about chairs, another fight I lost, no arms to help people up, wider chairs, etc. But I keep trying.

all I am saying is you can discuss the lived experience of your mixed race children without belittling the lived experience of disabled people especially when you are admitting here that your experience of disabled people.  In no way, at all, am I saying even a little bit that being disabled is the same as being black or mixed race in America.  I am certainly not saying that being disabled is worse than being black or mixed race in America.  But here you have just said that it took you literal years to convince medical professionals that disabled people have a right to be able to physically access the building in which they receive medical care.   That's what you've just said here.   So maybe I'm saying in your very real and important advocacy for your mixed race children you don't lessen the very real struggles of others.   

[chocolatine]

I totally understand Randall not wanting to have a conversation about race with Kate in that moment, and not wanting to worry about upsetting her. But I also felt it wasn't fair of him to blame her for not being aware of police brutality against Black people when they were all children growing up. She is aware now, and she wants to support him as much as she can. He could have just told her he wasn't ready to talk at the time, but would reach out later when he's ready.

As far as current events being dealt with in the show, I agree that it's depressing, but I would also feel strange about watching a show set in the present day that didn't acknowledge the events at all. It was jarring to watch scenes filmed last season with Rebecca eating at a restaurant and the police officers going inside someone's home without masks on. I do feel that having the drug trial canceled because of the pandemic was a copout. I really wanted Rebecca to make the decision on her own terms that she wasn't going to do it despite Randall's disgusting guilt trip last season.

I'm really disappointed with the "twist" at the end. Total soap opera territory.

6 hours ago, LexieLily said:

I was also irritated with the on-call OBGYN that dealt with Madison in the first hour. According to Kevin they were "in the middle of nowhere," but there's a woman in your exam room that is expecting twins, you tell her you can only hear one heartbeat, then you leave (presumably to get another doctor) and when you come back and do hear two heartbeats the only thing you say is "well, that was unesecarily exciting"?

Yeah, I'm glad that Kevin/Madison won't be going back to that doctor.  

The doctor said she only saw one heartbeat on the abdominal ultrasound, but that she needed to do a vaginal ultrasound to confirm. Then she went to get the equipment for the vaginal ultrasound, came back, performed the ultrasound, and confirmed that there were two heartbeats. I don't think she did anything wrong. One thing that wasn't mentioned is that a woman needs to have a full bladder for a vaginal ultrasound, so the doctor probably gave Madison time to chug some water and wait for her bladder to fill up. 

[Haleth]

I remember posters speculating in the past that Randall's bio mother was still alive, so kudos for that!  It remains to be seen why Laurel never found or (AFAWK) tried to find William and her baby after that.  Very sad. 

I had to force myself to stay awake to the end, knowing the season premiere always ends with a gut punch.

This is a new Randall.  Rather than the one we've known who rushes in to fix everyone's problems (while internalizing the anxiety), this Randall has decided to let his siblings go, building a wall to shut everyone out except Beth and the girls.  (But even they see him becoming distant.)  Sterling Brown was superb.  That tear that fell while Randall talked to Kate hurt my heart. 

I'm not sure I like the show using real life current events as a backdrop or preaching to us using the voices of fictional characters.  I get enough of the news during the day and would rather the awful state of the world not creep into my nighttime tv entertainment.  (Not to say the issues aren't important.  I don't mean to sound dismissive.  I hope the writers give us a balance of real life crises and family drama.)

I love Miguel and Beth.  Toby and Madison are growing on me.  Here's to the Outsiders!

7 hours ago, bybrandy said:

With Rndall's mom being in so much pain post birth I thought the twist was going to be another twin.   

 Next season.  (Please, don't give them any ideas!)

 

[Ana88]

5 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

I got approximately seven minutes into this and have decided I'm out.  I've been living in this pandemic just like the rest of the real world for over seven months; I live in LA, which has not been able to get a handle on COVID because too many people who live in this city are either idiotic or gallingly self-centered or both; I've been mostly isolated because of my current distrust of most public spaces and the idiotic, self-centered people, who can't even manage to wear a mask properly when a grocery store or whatever requires it, frequenting them; I have participated in exactly three small social gatherings since March because my friends and I are trying to be cautious and responsible; I won't allow anyone else into my apartment out of an abundance of caution; and it all totally, totally, totally, completely sucks.  I'm surrounded by COVID all. the. time.  Just like everyone else.  I do not want to see it reflected in a television show I watch for entertainment and escape, not while I'm living in it.  Also, I just can't deal with Randall anymore.  When I saw his smug, martyred face, I just wanted to punch it so many times, and I don't want to experience those feelings either.  So, I'm out.

Omg I died laughing at your last sentence! You put everything I'm thinking into words! 

[chitowngirl]

Randall put two and two together about the medications because Randall is the only person Rebecca told that she took something for the poison ivy.

[Blakeston]

If I were a writer for this show, I'd suggest that we stop calling attention to the circumstances of Randall's birth, because the whole thing makes so little sense.

Are we supposed to believe the authorities never looked into who Randall's birth parents were, despite it being super-obvious? Laurel and William were never even asked to relinquish their parental rights? "Hey, that couple who just lost a baby seem nice, so let's just give them this other baby to take home! Who cares where he came from?"

And they're still pushing the Saint William stuff - "Look at how much he cared! He didn't just drop the baby off at a fire station, he also tracked him down at the hospital and stuck around just to watch him and pray for him!" But this twist makes him come off even worse, because he agreed to keep his freshly born infant at home without getting him any medical attention whatsoever, because Laurel didn't want the doctor to give her a dirty look.

The writers are twisting themselves into knots to try to justify a plot twist that makes no sense. Why not have Randall discover that Laurel's mother is still alive? If Laurel was 25 when Randall was born, and her mother gave birth at 20, that would make Randall's grandmother 85. But I guess that wouldn't be soapy enough.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Blakeston

[Granny58]

8 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

Too many monologues and a little to political in my opinion.

Does Kate work?  Adoption is expensive.  How do they have money?  

I don't understand why William couldn't work.  I had a lazy brother (now passed) and even he got a job at a gas station.  Why did all that responsibility fall to Randall's biomom?

[Granny58]

8 hours ago, Bulldog said:

So, we're supposed to believe that super rich movie star Kevin Pearson uses Pert (not even Pert Plus!) shampoo and not some fancy salon product?  

No, that just showed what an OLD bottle of shampoo it was...it's been at the cabin forever. 

[greekmom]

9 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Randall is still a sanctimonious prick. Good to know some things never change. How do people stand him? Seriously. He’s just unbearable. I have literally no sympathy for him. Are we in for a fifth season of him being coddled by everyone in nauseating monologues?

Agreed. I can't stand Kate but even Randall has surpassed my dislike for Kate.

8 hours ago, CSunshine76 said:

That ending was some bullshit. Has this show jumped the shark? I mean come on.

Agreed. It's not a soap opera. It's not even a night time soap opera.  And if Laurel was alive she would have looked for William and/or Randall. So all those years she didn't bother to find her son? Or did she pull a William and saw the big 3 bikes outside and decided he's better off with the nice family who can give him the big window with the light coming in? I think Laurel should have just stayed dead.

8 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Plot twist, Laurel is rescued, begins recovery in rehab and is Randall’s future therapist.

I thought of that then figured at her age - nah. It will most likely be Randall's half sibling.  Please don't do this show.

Sadly we have to wait 2 weeks (elections) to see what happens and it's not like they are going to show us more next episode.  Also think that they will pull a fast one with Kate & Toby adopting.  The mom will probably change her mind at the last minute and they won't adopt that kid but will adopt another one immediately.

I wonder if show writers remember that family with the farm they showed in the last couple episodes.

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by greekmom

[MissLucas]

We should start a poll about how Randall's next therapist is going to be related to him. My money's on half-sibling, haven't made up my mind whether brother or sister. Probably married to Kyle or a child of Nicky's.

I was equally annoyed by Randall and felt for him - but I guess that's how it should be. The only bit a did not like was that he had been the one to figure out the problem with Rebecca's anti-histamines. It was like the writers holding up a sign reading 'Yeah, we know he's a sanctimonious prick - but look, he's a useful sanctimonious prick.' Totally unnecessary - we know! And if you feel like that's really a point you need to make, could you do it without making everyone else looking like an idiot? 

Lots of great conversations: Randall and Malik, Toby and Miguel, Randall and Kate, Beth and Randall.

I'm also surprised how much I like Kevin and Madison together. Kate dealing with both revelations was great, she's really grown. And I liked the little reminder that Kevin is a much beloved uncle. I wish Randall had pointed that out when Kevin told him about his concerns about raising a daughter - but these two still suffer from an unhealthy dose of testosterone poisoning. Although they made some progress so there's that.

Edited October 28, 2020 by MissLucas
testosterone poisoning is not healthy

[cardigirl]

I really liked Malik saying to Randall "They tell us to check on our strong friends ..." So true. 

I appreciated the show giving voice to current events. I thought Randall's conversation with Kate was on point. "I love you, but I can't make this better for you right now."  Which is what Kate was asking him to do. Her "guilt" at her privilege and perhaps her not understanding what her brother has faced all his life is something she has to figure out.  I liked that she said she was going to have to sit with her feelings for a while. 

By the way, @Runningwild, being raised by a loving family, with more opportunities available to him than his birth family may have been able to give him doesn't mean that Randall was not oppressed.  Privilege has nothing to do with money or how rich or poor you are.  It has to do with so much more than that. Privilege is more about being able to move through society with no thought about anyone judging you for the color of your skin. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by cardigirl

[MrsWitter]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

I totally understand Randall not wanting to have a conversation about race with Kate in that moment, and not wanting to worry about upsetting her. But I also felt it wasn't fair of him to blame her for not being aware of police brutality against Black people when they were all children growing up. She is aware now, and she wants to support him as much as she can. He could have just told her he wasn't ready to talk at the time, but would reach out later when he's ready.

I can *partially* understand Kate not being aware when she was a child; although there were certainly some flashbulb moments when they were coming of age (like Rodney King, the LA Riots, OJ trial, etc.) that should have prompted discussions in their home. I don’t put the blame fully on Kate for her lack of awareness, of course- Jack and Rebecca clearly didn’t do an adequate job fostering these conversations and creating space for Randall to be heard in this context.

That all said, Randall seemed to be saying this was the first time Kate had brought it up with him EVER. It took George Floyd and the protests right now for her to broach this with her brother?  Since Trayvon Martin was murdered eight years ago, there has been growing awareness surrounding these issues*. Did she not think of Randall at all as images of brutality against Black people have played on the news? Or when people took to the streets before and begged others to pay attention to the racial inequities in our society? Like, seriously... she didn’t think to reach out to brother at all before this? I often find Randall sanctimonious and overwrought, but he wasn’t in this discussion. 
 

*among white people... I’m not saying conversations about police brutality and systemic racism weren’t happening before Trayvon because they certainly were. Trayvon’s death just seemed to be a moment where more white people started to pay attention, although apparently not Kate.

Edited October 28, 2020 by MrsWitter

[Jeddah]

For all his criticism of the family he grew up in, Randall didn’t seem to be doing a great job of talking to his own kids about what was happening. Tess was clearly very upset watching his news, and his response was just to tell Annie to change the channel. That’s it? He said more to Malik. I guess this goes hand in hand with his advice to Kevin about raising girls, which was essentially that the dad doesn’t need to deal with the hard stuff.

[Dminches]

Despite Randall being Randall, I thought the present day scenes were good.  They looped in COVID (just to make it realistic) and the Kevin storyline with Madison was well done.  Some how I even enjoyed the scenes with Kate and Toby.  However, if they couldn't find 2 hours of non-flashback material they should have had a 1 hour return instead of 2.  Not only did the scenes from 40 years ago break up the momentum of the other storylines, they covered stuff we have scene over and over again.  Can they please just let it go?

On a side note, we had also seen the "Rebecca is confused in the Asian restaurant" scene before.  Was that a flash forward when they showed it the first time? It had to have been since the restaurant workers would have been wearing masks if it was filmed today.

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Dminches

[MrsWitter]

6 hours ago, buckboard said:

He and his parents tried to discuss racial issues with him, although they might not have done the best job of it.  But they tried.  

Did they though? When those deeper conversations happened, it was often Randall pushing them along, not his parents. Jack was waxing poetic about not seeing color when they were on the golf course and it took Randall saying “then you don’t see me” to force a larger discussion.

[Ohiopirate02]

13 minutes ago, MrsWitter said:

I can *partially* understand Kate not being aware when she was a child; although there were certainly some flashbulb moments when they were coming of age (like Rodney King, the LA Riots, OJ trial, etc.) that should have prompted discussions in their home. I don’t put the blame fully on Kate for her lack of awareness, of course- Jack and Rebecca clearly didn’t do an adequate job fostering these conversations and creating space for Randall to be heard in this context.

 

That really is St Jack's fault and also Rebecca.  The show has established more than once that the Pearson's don't talk about unpleasant stuff when they are together.  They want to focus on the positive and the now.  They never talked about kid Kate's weight as a family or her sudden weight loss as a teen.  Kevin was ordered by Jack to get on with his life as a teen while the cast was still on his leg.  They never talked about Jack's addiction, his abusive father or Nicky either.  Even in this episode had Rebecca talking about those lazy Saturdays where the family played pin the tail on the donkey together shutting out the world in the process.