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S05.E01: Forty: Part One/S05.E02: Forty: Part Two


Message added by Lady Calypso

Keep the discussions about this episode. There are other topics you can move to if the discussion is straying from the events of the episode itself. 

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3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

That really is St Jack's fault and also Rebecca.  The show has established more than once that the Pearson's don't talk about unpleasant stuff when they are together.  They want to focus on the positive and the now.  They never talked about kid Kate's weight as a family or her sudden weight loss as a teen.  Kevin was ordered by Jack to get on with his life as a teen while the cast was still on his leg.  They never talked about Jack's addiction, his abusive father or Nicky either.  Even in this episode had Rebecca talking about those lazy Saturdays where the family played pin the tail on the donkey together shutting out the world in the process.  

I don’t disagree that it’s mainly on Rebecca and Jack when they were growing up. And I do think you make a good point about the Pearson propensity to bury painful issues. But the last 20 or so years are on Kate (and Kevin too, of course).

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But families have to have lazy Saturdays to play games. No family spends every waking minute talking about serious things. And Kate’s weight is not the business of the entire family, as a very young child it is the business of her and her parents and as a teen it is her body and not the business of the whole family.

I think talking about Race is a different matter than telling children every detail about the lives of adults. 

Edited by Madding crowd
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23 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

 

I really liked Malik saying to Randall "They tell us to check on our strong friends ..." So true. 

 

I loved that moment. Also, Malik asking Randall if he was in trouble because Randall was working outside - ‘that’s my dad’s move’ - cracked me up. 
 

I’m glad Randall and Kevin are still struggling with how to move past the hurtful things they said to each other. It feels realistic; they want to patch things up and move forward but don’t know how.

Laurel is alive...could be interesting. 
 

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29 minutes ago, Dminches said:

On a side note, we had also seen the "Rebecca is confused in the Asian restaurant" scene before.  Was that a flash forward when they showed it the first time? It had to have been since the restaurant workers would have been wearing masks if it was filmed today.

It was a flash forward in the season finale.  And this is a reason why I am not a huge fan of flash forwards in shows, because you're assuming everything will be fine when it's time to use it again.  God forbid something happened to one of the actors in between time.  

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3 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

Randall is just too special.  He figures out why Rebecca had her memory problems.  Then he goes off on Kate. At the end it felt like Kevin was reaching out, telling Randall about the twins and Randall still shut him down.  And OF COURSE his mom just has to be alive because it's ALL ABOUT RANDALL.  

I agree on Randall (though as someone else pointed out, I don't think anyone else even knew she had taken the allergy medicine) but also Kevin has not apologized for saying he is the worst thing to ever happen to him, so I can't put it all on Randall. The texts that they both started to write and didn't send shows that they both want to reconcile so hopefully they won't drag it out too much.

3 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

On a shallow note, can we have more scenes of Kevin coming out of a shower.  

Yes, please.

3 hours ago, debraran said:

I had to fight for over a year for an automatic door for our patients.  

I always think about that when I watch My 600 Pound Life, when they are struggling to get the 600 lb patient in a wheelchair through the door of Dr. Now's office (or sometimes the patient by themselves with a walker trying to open the door). He's got the wider chairs in the waiting room, but you'd think he'd make it easier for them to get into the building. (Though I suppose it's possible that the landlord won't let him...)

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

I wonder if show writers remember that family with the farm they showed in the last couple episodes.

Wasn't that Madison's doctor and his wise-beyond-her-years kid?

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I hated that they brought real world current events into this season, Hollywood never handles those well, it is their blind spot,  Issues are complicated and need to be treated with an open mind, without preconceived notions.  It doesn't help matters that this series is so focused on the big three narcissists.

Didn't help that they threw it all into the first ten minutes. I get that they were incorporating a lot of stuff that threw off their original plan for the story, but it just felt like too much all at once.

54 minutes ago, MrsWitter said:

*among white people... I’m not saying conversations about police brutality and systemic racism weren’t happening before Trayvon because they certainly were. Trayvon’s death just seemed to be a moment where more white people started to pay attention, although apparently not Kate.

Well, she's always been portrayed as fairly self-centered (she's gotten slightly better over time, I think). So I don't find it all that surprising that she didn't think too deeply about those things.

51 minutes ago, Dminches said:

On a side note, we had also seen the "Rebecca is confused in the Asian restaurant" scene before.  Was that a flash forward when they showed it the first time? It had to have been since the restaurant workers would have been wearing masks if it was filmed today.

Yes, it was a flash-forward before.

30 minutes ago, woodstock said:

I loved that moment. Also, Malik asking Randall if he was in trouble because Randall was working outside - ‘that’s my dad’s move’ - cracked me up. 

I laughed at Randall making the case for why he would a better friend than Deja. "I can drive."

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36 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I agree that Kate and Kevin have not done enough to talk about things with Randall in the intervening 20 years.  I do appreciate Kate listening to Randall in this episode.  This was an instance where the best thing to do is to shut up and listen, and Kate did that.  She didn't get defensive and make excuses, which I think would have been season one Kate.  

I agree. I think marriage to Toby and motherhood have brought out the more empathetic sides of Kate.

 

Yes to more scenes of Kevin coming out of the shower @Lisa418722!

 

The circumstances of quarantining together can explain how Kevin and Madison could go from a one night stand trying to figure out how they were going to approach co-parenting to actually developing feelings for each other. Thats a LOT of together time, but I am glad both of them weren't alone during quarantine. 

 

Most of all I am glad Randall apologized to his mother (he owned Rebecca an apology in the WORST WAY). He and Kevin have the rift, and its clear they both want to repair is but dont know how. Kate being team Switzerland is nothing new between them. 

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I am definitely not a fan of that ending. Once again it's a twist that revolves around a major Randall storyline. It's ok for Randall to NOT have his mother alive! Not every adopted child gets that sort of closure! It's more unrealistic for her to be alive at this stage.

As for the rest of the episode...it was actually a pretty great premiere! I liked a lot of the moments that happened. I even enjoyed the Randall and Kate conversation. It was rough to watch and uncomfortable at times but it needed to happen. The only way Randall can get better is if he can start being completely honest with the ones he loves the most. I think he said what he said to not hurt Kate but also point out that this was about him (and when it comes to race then it IS about him and not her). It's stuff that I would have never considered but is important to see. It feels mean from Randall's end but it actually isn't. 

Plus I think that it IS true when Randall said that the Pearsons never talked about race. We know Jack has said "I don't see colour" and I'm sure that the family didn't really talk about racism in the way that would be helpful for Randall. It's just a couple of seasons late on dealing with race and racism because we HAD to deal with Randall's career changes several times over and the mostly pointless marital problems. We should have gotten this ages ago because it IS an important topic for this show to explore.

I really liked Madison and Kevin together. I'm glad they are exploring Madison as a character more. She has been a great character since season 1. Neoptism aside I do think the actress is great and her character has had so much potential and I'm glad they are using her more. I even got a chuckle out of Randall's line about Madison being the only family friend out of all of them.

Miguel got some scenes where he actually talked! Hooray! It's quite sad that the bar for Miguel scenes is so low that we're scrapping for any more than one scene with him in it. But he had a presence for once and I hope that continues. I did really like his final scene with Rebecca.

I'm sick of Saint William but I was ok with these flashback scenes because I was curious about Laurel. I was gonna be ok with it being just a two episode thing. Too bad it isn't.

This is better than last season's first two episodes because if focused on THIS family. Ending aside it was a great premiere.

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3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I am definitely not a fan of that ending. Once again it's a twist that revolves around a major Randall storyline. It's ok for Randall to NOT have his mother alive! Not every adopted child gets that sort of closure! It's more unrealistic for her to be alive at this stage.

I agree. I don't like the fact that Laurel lived, assuming she lived and wasn't permanently mentally disabled in some way, she didn't ask about her baby? She didn't sign papers relinquishing her rights? I know it was forty years ago, but forty years ago wasnt 100 years ago- child services would've tried to find Randall's bio parents at least for a time before placing him for adoption. 

Personally I think it would've been more realistic for Laurel to have live but to have told William to take the baby to the firestation so he would have a chance, and she perhaps dying later before reaching senior age. Or it could be William absolutely lied to Randall, and knew Laurel lived.

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10 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Plot twist, Laurel is rescued, begins recovery in rehab and is Randall’s future therapist.

Mr. Jillybean actually said this at the end of the episode: "I think Randall's mom is gonna be his new therapist." Way too soapy even for this show IMO and if they actually did go there, it would truly be a Jump the Shark moment.

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There was some funny stuff I liked this episode. When Kevin broke the news to Kate and Toby, Toby saying "What are the words coming out of your mouth right now?" When Madison was listing Kevin's faults, "vanity, narcissism, a weird obsession with Chris Evans." It was also sweet to tell him that he wasn't "broken" but that those faults made up part of his whole. I also liked how Kevin thought Pert shampoo was really roughing it.

The fact that Randall pointed out that Madison is like their only friend was funny but I did wonder why there wasn't a conversation between Kate and Madison about Madison's pregnancy instead of Kevin and Madison just announcing it. They don't really portray friendships very well on this show. It's just odd pairings having deep conversations like Malik/Randall this episode and that one time Rebecca talked to her boyfriend's mother about Jack (if I'm remembering that correctly). Also, I found it weird that Laurel announced her pregnancy in front of their friends instead of telling William alone first.

I didn't like how much time they spent talking about how they quarantined/were being safe but then broke quarantine. I don't think they know what quarantine means. Also, if you have access to soap and water, wash your hands instead of using sanitizer. Sanitizer is for when you don't have access to soap and water, RANDALL AND BETH. (They showed Randall coming home and Beth giving him hand sanitizer when he should have just washed his hands.) It's better to get rid of the germs rather than just kill them and leave them on your hands. Just saying.

I actually see both Kate and Randall's POV. This might be an odd analogy but it's like when someone you know has someone who is close to them but not close to you die. You can express that you are sorry for their loss, that you are thinking about them and that the situation sucks but you can't actually fix anything for them. That's the situation that Kate is in right now. She wants to be there for Randall but there's not much to say or do to make it better. OTOH, Randall doesn't want to deal with all of his stuff and add Kate's stuff to his burden.  It's not his responsibility to worry about how she's dealing with it when he has it so much worse (in this specific situation, I mean).

I'm really hating that Laurel is alive and nobody knew about it. If it turns out that her son or daughter is Randall's therapist like people are speculating, then the odds are that she is in a good place right now. And if she's in a good place, it would be more likely that she would have tracked down William and/or Randall at some point just to make sure Randall was okay. As far as she knew at the time, she was abandoning Randall to William rather than knowing that Randall was adopted. I agree with whoever said they are really twisting themselves in knots to make this make any sense at all.

 

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11 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I agree. I don't like the fact that Laurel lived, assuming she lived and wasn't permanently mentally disabled in some way, she didn't ask about her baby? She didn't sign papers relinquishing her rights? I know it was forty years ago, but forty years ago wasnt 100 years ago- child services would've tried to find Randall's bio parents at least for a time before placing him for adoption. 

As unrealistic as I find the idea that they would have been able to bring him home at the same time as their other two kids born the same day he was brought in (essentially on a whim after having lost a third baby at birth -- I don't see any child services agency placing an abandoned baby with a family in that situation, especially not as recently as 1980), the adoption wasn't completed until he was about 2 years old, IIRC. They never really got into the legal specifics of the whole situation, but I guess they were technically foster parents until then.

I, too, find it unlikely that she wouldn't have been looking for her baby. Or William. Did he know she was alive and lie to Randall or did he just disappear and never go back to find out she had survived?

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10 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Mr. Jillybean actually said this at the end of the episode: "I think Randall's mom is gonna be his new therapist." Way too soapy even for this show IMO and if they actually did go there, it would truly be a Jump the Shark moment.

If Laurel lived, she'd be in her 70s (or late 60s) now.  Would she still be working as a therapist?  It's more realistic to have one of her kids, I'd think.  

TV never does adoption properly, so I wouldn't put past it that her rights to Randall were relinquished without her signing papers OR that Toby and Kate adopt Hailey almost immediately after their profile went out (I've heard stories in real life, but they're really rare.  We were never matched, save for a very special needs child whose needs we weren't able to handle.  That was when we decided to try donors (first eggs, but I was told that Asian women are less likely to donate to strangers due to cultural pressure.  Decided to go ahead with donor embryos) and surrogacy).  We have a little two year old boy now).

On a side note regarding privilege:  There are so many different kinds of privilege.  I have linguistic privilege.  I was in a hospital for routine tests recently and another woman was there as well.  She had to have a translator (I assume her daughter).  I can't imagine what it's like to not be fluent in English.  Considering her daughter speaks "Canadian," and is at least in her mid-20s, I'd say the woman has been in this country for years.  Yet, her English is barely functional.  It must suck.

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I wonder what the plan was for Rebecca if it wasn't for Covid-19. The whole bit of Randall pressuring her and the big fight between him and Kevin? It brought out a lot of hidden feelings between those three and in a way it was good that they finally let it out. Unfortunately it came out in a very toxic way. 

I think all of this with Covid-19 has forced Randall to realize that he cannot fix everything nor can he control everything to make sure that everyone he loves is okay. He is actually forced to work on things that makes it so exhausting for him to be Randall. I actually appreciated that he was not only aware of this but is taking steps to actually dealing with this including apologizing to his mom. At the end of last season, I was just so irritated by him but I think the season premier actually took away a lot of my irritation with him.

Eventually he and Kevin will have to really talk and make up because deep down they both want to.

I adore Kevin and Madison together and I think moving in together (again due to Covid-19 and the pregnancy), really allows them to really to get to know one another. She also doesn't see him as having all these broken pieces. They are just pieces of who Kevin is. Pretty much the way I think Beth views Randall. I think that she is really good for him. And the Pearson can't lose their only family friend.

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5 minutes ago, PRgal said:

OR that Toby and Kate adopt Hailey almost immediately after their profile went out

They were looking at a picture of a young woman, so I'm guessing they were chosen by someone planning to place her not-yet-born baby for adoption. So probably a while before they actually adopt.

3 minutes ago, nilyank said:

I adore Kevin and Madison together and I think moving in together (again due to Covid-19 and the pregnancy), really allows them to really to get to know one another. She also doesn't see him as having all these broken pieces. They are just pieces of who Kevin is. Pretty much the way I think Beth views Randall. I think that she is really good for him. And the Pearson can't lose their only family friend.

I like them, too. Madison has definitely become a much better character than she started out as. I hope they are still together in the future (when they did the flash-forward showing the twins as tweens, I don't remember if they mentioned their mother, but I realize to actually show her would have given too much away). I don't want them to split up later because they realize they got married too hastily because covid/babies/whatever (which feels like drama-cliché). I want them to build a good relationship off their unexpected beginning and have a happy family.

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Okay. So, finally caught up with the posts so far.  I have a few thoughts and some questions.  Perhaps, someone can help me. 

Has the show given up on the premise of the twins being born in the summer and switched to cold weather?  Am I remembering correctly the hot day a very pregnant Rebecca walked in the heat to get ingredients for Jack a birthday cake? Now at the hospital Jack is in a jacket.  And on the birthday reunion they are at the  cabin and it's jacket weather.

I thought William told Randall his mother died and she struggled with drug abuse and couldn't raise him.  Would he had persisted with that contention, EVEN though, he was dying.  The trip that he and Randall took where he gave his spill on life....hmmm....

I didn't buy that Kevin's baby's mother tripped and fell on her belly.  Too contrived and unbelievable for me. Sounds like they borrowed that storyline from an old tv soap.  And, she insisted they sneak to the doctor with no mention to Kate?  Why?  I don't buy it.  And, Kevin couldn't bother to text? 

With Rebecca's diagnosis, why are family members not reading up on dementia info. There are message boards for those with Alzheimers and their family members.  They have lots of helpful information and resources.  One thing is that seniors, especially those with cognitive decline should not take Benadryl.  (Which has the main ingredient in what Rebecca took.)

  I hope the writers are prepared to be accurate in their depiction of a person with dementia.  It's not what many people think.  It's not just confusion and memory loss.  It's much, much more and I wonder how the show will portray it.  If done correctly, it will be a horror show, because, that's what dementia is. 

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3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Has the show given up on the premise of the twins being born in the summer and switched to cold weather?  Am I remembering correctly the hot day a very pregnant Rebecca walked in the heat to get ingredients for Jack a birthday cake? Now at the hospital Jack is in a jacket.  And on the birthday reunion they are at the  cabin and it's jacket weather.

 

When Randall got the text on his phone, it showed the date of Aug 31.

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56 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Plus I think that it IS true when Randall said that the Pearsons never talked about race. We know Jack has said "I don't see colour" and I'm sure that the family didn't really talk about racism in the way that would be helpful for Randall. It's just a couple of seasons late on dealing with race and racism because we HAD to deal with Randall's career changes several times over and the mostly pointless marital problems. We should have gotten this ages ago because it IS an important topic for this show to explore.

I don't know if it was helpful for Randall, but I think the family did talk about race and racism.  I mean, Randall was present when Rebecca confronted her mother over her racism, and we saw flashbacks where the issue of being white parents raising a black child was addressed. 

I did mean to ask, whatever happened to the apartment building that Randall and Beth bought?  Do they still own it?  It's just odd that in all the talk about Covid, no mention is made of what is going on with the tenants (i.e. tenants who can't pay rent, tenants that may have Covid, etc.).  I just remember Randall making such a big deal about it because it was William's building, but then the entire storyline just seemed to stop being discussed. 

 

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1 minute ago, nilyank said:

When Randall got the text on his phone, it showed the date of Aug 31.

I guess the Poconos (or Pittsburgh) is much further north than I realized... 😉 I feel like Jack's jacket is just more of an expression of his style. I did find it a little weird that in the delivery room he was wearing a scrub top and apparently took the time to go change back into his own clothes after they made him leave the room. I would think he'd be too freaked out to even think about that.

10 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

With Rebecca's diagnosis, why are family members not reading up on dementia info. There are message boards for those with Alzheimers and their family members.  They have lots of helpful information and resources.  One thing is that seniors, especially those with cognitive decline should not take Benadryl.  (Which has the main ingredient in what Rebecca took.)

  I hope the writers are prepared to be accurate in their depiction of a person with dementia.  It's not what many people think.  It's not just confusion and memory loss.  It's much, much more and I wonder how the show will portray it.  If done correctly, it will be a horror show, because, that's what dementia is. 

Seems like Rebecca took the antihistamines without telling anyone else (until she mentioned it to Randall after the fact). Even if they knew she shouldn't, I can see her forgetting. That would be new information she's less likely to retain, while the thought "oh, poison ivy rash, this stuff will help" could be something she knew from a long time ago and not even think to mention it to Miguel or the kids. (That said, it doesn't seem like they knew about the potential interaction until Randall brought it up, so yeah, they should maybe be doing more research on her condition and especially the medications she's on and what foods/drugs she shouldn't mix them with.)

In the future flash-forward of her death-bed, she seems pretty far gone, so I'm guessing they'll get more into it later. At this point it's only a matter of months (I think?) since her diagnosis.

 

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I can picture the writer's room.

"Last season was rough.  Like, horrible reviews. We went from people talking about how great we were to not even watching. What was it that made the first season so successful?"

"I know! It was Randall finding a long lost birth parent!"

"Yeah. Too bad we killed him off and it's known that the other birth parent is dead. No way around two dead birth parents.  We should have left some wiggle room there."

"True. But you know what? Everyone likes long lost birth parents. Let's just.... undead someone."

"Oh. That'll work!"

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I actually thought the show did a good job of incorporating COVID into the show. They captured that panic from the start of the pandemic. Time wise, it kinda works for the show too. To me, seeing the characters occasionally wear a mask doesn’t make me sad. 
 

I can certainly see Kate and Randall NEVER talking about race and racism until now. They did not go to the same school, except when they were very young. Kate may have been more aware had they gone to school together, where she may have witnessed Randall being treated differently due to his race. 

I thought last season was great, not at all horrible. 

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3 minutes ago, deaja said:

I can picture the writer's room.

"Last season was rough.  Like, horrible reviews. We went from people talking about how great we were to not even watching. What was it that made the first season so successful?"

"I know! It was Randall finding a long lost birth parent!"

"Yeah. Too bad we killed him off and it's known that the other birth parent is dead. No way around two dead birth parents.  We should have left some wiggle room there."

"True. But you know what? Everyone likes long lost birth parents. Let's just.... undead someone."

"Oh. That'll work!"

Right!  I sometimes think the writers are much more obsessed with the old flashbacks than the viewers.  I find seeing that old stuff more and more is annoying.  All the old stuff could have been cut way back.  It's like the writers are desperate to manipulate events so the audience has a gotcha moment in the end.  They say they have had it planned all along.....I don't buy it, yet. Too many inconsistencies, imo.  

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12 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I called the "Randall's mother is still alive" thing a while back - because they cut away from William telling Randall about what she was like - but that doesn't mean I'm not incredibly irritated by it. They already did the "that person you thought was dead is still around" thing with Nicky.

Also, unless Kate and Toby are adopting a baby with severe health problems, I don't buy for a second that they'd be given a child so quickly.

Right, especially a white newborn, no way it would happen so quickly.

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1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Miguel got some scenes where he actually talked! Hooray! It's quite sad that the bar for Miguel scenes is so low that we're scrapping for any more than one scene with him in it. But he had a presence for once and I hope that continues. I did really like his final scene with Rebecca.

Miguel from "Ugh, more Miguel?" to "YAY! More Miguel!" over time, me being one of them.  

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I have not read any of these posts yet so forgive me if someone already said it but my prediction is Randall will get found by a half sibling through 23 and me or whatever, and then will find out his bio mom didn’t die that day.

Edited by Eureka
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As soon as Beth said she didn't want any more surprises, I knew that something would happen, and low and behold...Randall's bio mom is alive! Because we just haven't had enough of Randall getting closure about every single dang aspect of his entire life. He will probably find out that his bio mom became a pilot so he decides that he now has to buy an airplane to feel closer to her. So many long lost relatives coming out of the woodwork apparently. 

As heavy and dramatic as this premier was, dealing with all the issues that have happened with the pandemic and police brutality, as well as Rebecca and her illness and everything surrounding that, the part that really got me was when Keven and Randall were both texting each other about Kevin's twins. They both started off with these very warm words and Kevin saying how happy he was to hear from him, but then they both ended up sending these polite but distant texts instead. Its just really sad, you can tell they both want to reconcile, but neither of them has figured out how to take the first step. I hope that the Big Three can all work this out soon, so much is happening with them and they need to be there for each other. 

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10 hours ago, buckboard said:

BS.  He and his parents tried to discuss racial issues with him, although they might not have done the best job of it.  But they tried.  

They did yeah but remember this was the 80s/90s.  Parenting was different then. You didn't discuss much as parents do now.  I mean there was alot going on during the 80s/90s.  There was AIDS, equal rights, drug abuse, Amy Fischer scandal, Monica Lewinsky, Jessica Hahn, Challenger Disaster, etc.  But I don't think the Pearson's were really glued to the tv to talk to their kids the truth about AIDS, equal rights between the sexes, grooming of young girls for dirty old men.  They most likely said don't do drugs, and only partially paid attention to events like the challenger because it's too sad.

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

That really is St Jack's fault and also Rebecca.  The show has established more than once that the Pearson's don't talk about unpleasant stuff when they are together.  They want to focus on the positive and the now.  They never talked about kid Kate's weight as a family or her sudden weight loss as a teen.  Kevin was ordered by Jack to get on with his life as a teen while the cast was still on his leg.  They never talked about Jack's addiction, his abusive father or Nicky either.  Even in this episode had Rebecca talking about those lazy Saturdays where the family played pin the tail on the donkey together shutting out the world in the process.  

And that's the Pearson way. Ignore it and focus on the good stuff.

3 hours ago, SevenStars said:

As a Black man, what does having a white family protect Randal from when it comes to racism/racial bias? Will cops see him as white when they pull him over? Will racist people see him as white? Will racially bias people in stores/work/streets see him as white? 

 

While i agree with you has Randal even considered the possibilities of what could have happened to him??  He could have either been adopted by another nice family (POC or not POC) after a time, spent time or all his life in the foster system, or adopted/fostered by a not so nice family (POC or not POC).  Instead he was pretty much in the hospital for what? a few days with his adopted brother and sister and taken home right away.  Rebecca and Jack did the best they can at the time and even had assistance from those family friends who were black. 

I think the issues lie with Randall and how he saw himself in the Pearson family. He didn't have a K name (they could have given him another name beside Kyle but Rebecca went with Randall), he was a black child in a white family and he was adopted and not a natural born child like Kate and Kevin. Randall was also a more obsessive child than Kate or Kevin and more interested in current events than either his brother & sister and his parents. Ergo why they didn't keep up with the news of the black man who was beaten while Randall was. I think when Challenger happened (and 9/11) Randall would have been glued to the news 24/7 than Kate or Kevin who would have tuned in a bit here and there to see what is going on.

1 hour ago, Zero260 said:

Any chance Laurel’s gasp is her last one? End of story?

Please let it be the end all and be all of Laurel.  I rather see Randall obtain a good black therapist so he can open up and deal with his issues.

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13 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Did we really need flashbacks to the days they were born. Again? So tired of Randall and all his pain. How many years now has he been processing his birth? And all that time he spent with William and never asked when he was born? Or looked for records about his birth mom’s death? 

First hour went pretty quickly but second just dragged.

And of course Randall was the one who realized about Rebecca’s medication.

I think that they now struggle with including Milo into storylines, which doesn't surprise me. Once we found out about the Crock Pot of Doom, there was only so many storylines left to tell about Jack. So, we get the early flashbacks so that he can be integrated into the show. Yeah, we really don't NEED them, but I DO need a Milo fix, because I spend most of the show wanting to alternately slap around the various Pearson adult children. I seem to rotate wanting to kick a different whiney, preachy ass each week. I used to think that it was just Kevin, but it's all three that infuriate at times. 

Does anyone else have a hard time leaving their house with the Crock Pot going, even though that's what the damn thing was designed for. Thanks a lot, show. 

Let me guess . Randall’s new therapist is going to be bio momma

Man, I hope not. That might be too soapy, even for THIS show. 

 

 

Edited by ChicksDigScars
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2 hours ago, Zero260 said:

Any chance Laurel’s gasp is her last one? End of story?

Oh my gosh, I certainly hope so.  I'm so tired of all of the flashbacks to their births 40 years ago and all of that drama.  I had to fast forward through a lot of this episode because of it.  I'm also fine if we never have to see any more of St. Jack.  Let's focus on the present day family/extended family - there's plenty going on to fill up hour-long episodes.  

 

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randall's biomom being alive is a bit cliché but here's one possible way it could work,

 

what if she did survive but has severe permanent brain damage from the overdose, she could have suffered from lack of oxygen and it really messed her up and she has been living in a special care facility for all that time

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34 minutes ago, Eureka said:

I have not read any of these posts yet so forgive me if someone already said it but my prediction is Randall will get found by a half sibling through 23 and me or whatever, and then will find out his bio mom didn’t die that day.

I just saw this theory in a comment elsewhere; that seems like a much more realistic thing than having her (or a half-sibling) wind up as his therapist through sheer coincidence. Maybe his new therapist suggests a DNA test to see if he can find some blood relatives to connect with.

25 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I think when Challenger happened (and 9/11) Randall would have been glued to the news 24/7 than Kate or Kevin who would have tuned in a bit here and there to see what is going on.

Challenger happened in January of 1986; they would have been in kindergarten (presumably). Not that they couldn't have been paying attention, but I'm not sure 5½-year olds would have been as aware of that as older kids (I was 10 and I barely remember if we were watching it in school...I think we were...?). Then again... it is Randall.

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1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

I just saw this theory in a comment elsewhere; that seems like a much more realistic thing than having her (or a half-sibling) wind up as his therapist through sheer coincidence. Maybe his new therapist suggests a DNA test to see if he can find some blood relatives to connect with.

Challenger happened in January of 1986; they would have been in kindergarten (presumably). Not that they couldn't have been paying attention, but I'm not sure 5½-year olds would have been as aware of that as older kids (I was 10 and I barely remember if we were watching it in school...I think we were...?). Then again... it is Randall.

Yep.  I don't remember either.  I'm a year older.  I remember Baby Jessica though.

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I am now waiting for Randall to find out that he has a half sibling and a bunch of other relatives and they will all be super awesome artists/civil rights activists and he will get the family that he wanted all along. 

I wonder if they went really hard on the real life stuff because they knew that they had to change some aspects of what I assume they planned on for this season to reflect real life for their first episodes, and will go on more as planned as we go forward? Everything with Kevin's twins and Rebecca's illness and the feud and Randall's long lost bio mom will probably carry on at least mostly as planned, even if they decide to do some different things now to reflect BLM and the pandemic, but this is the episode where they really go hard on all of that. 

On the one hand, Jack and Rebecca did certainly talk about race with Randall, that has been a pretty major part of the flashbacks to Randall's childhood. Jack and Rebecca had a whole talk with Randall about microaggressions when he had to deal with Rebecca's racist mom, they had all of that stuff Jack and Rebecca wanting to introduce Randall to more black families and be in black spaces and encouraged him to go to a historically black university (even if it didn't work out) and them learning about supporting Randall as a black kid/teen, so its not like this never came up in the Pearson house. To an extent, Randall being upset about how he felt like he had to hide his sadness about violence against black people and the injustice of it all just seems like yet another excuse to make Randall the eternal martyr and give more self important speeches. On the other hand, I dont think those conversations ever really included Kate and Kevin, so I can see them not really thinking much about how being a black man affects Randall or asking him much about it and how violence and injustice make him feel. Kates awkwardness as she apologized to Randall about racism and saying how she didn't say the "wrong thing" was just really sad to me, it sounded like she was talking to a casual friend or co-worker or something and not her own brother. It was like that scene in Mad Men after MLK was assassinated and everyone was apologizing and awkwardly hugging one of the two black employees at the office and it was just super awkward for everything involved because no one had any real idea about what to do or how to react to this horrible event, except this is Kate and her brother. Randall not feeling like he wants to talk about systematic racism and violence as a kid/teen is also probably part of a greater problem where the Pearson's just really suck at communication in general, and really struggle with having the tough conversations. They have all of these issues, but no one knows how to properly deal with them so they get drowned out in wacky traditions and avoidance. Thats why whenever they actually do talk about anything real, it turns into a whole big THING full of drama and fighting and crying, everything just gets bottled up and then it explodes. These are people who refused to talk about their families very obvious history of substance abuse going back generations while Kevin was in rehab! If Randall didnt like bringing up his feelings about about black in that way and how those stories affected him, I can see that as both being about his feelings about being black in a white family (which we have certainly covered on this show) and how the Pearson's just really suck at talking about their issues, despite how obvious they are, or at least following up on them in any meaningful way. 

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32 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

 

Challenger happened in January of 1986; they would have been in kindergarten (presumably). Not that they couldn't have been paying attention, but I'm not sure 5½-year olds would have been as aware of that as older kids (I was 10 and I barely remember if we were watching it in school...I think we were...?). Then again... it is Randall.

I'm three weeks older than the Big 3, and I definitely remember the Challenger explosion.  We had a snow day in the Cleveland suburb where I was living, my dad was home as well, and he called my older brother and myself into the family room to watch the Challenger take off.  I remember him being kinda excited to watch this with his kids because he had been in Florida for work and seen a previous space shuttle launch live.  And, welp, that did not go as planned.  I also remember the earthquake that happened later that week.  

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I did a lot of fast-forwarding through these 2 episodes.  I've realized that I am no longer interested in the previous lives - I feel we've explored all that needs to be explored.  

I didn't think I would like Madison but I do.  Didn't someone (the great Jack?) once say that great relationships sometimes evolve from an unconventional start, or something like that?  

Not looking forward to Randall exploring yet another dead parent.  But that's what I've got FF for.

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3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I agree that Kate and Kevin have not done enough to talk about things with Randall in the intervening 20 years.  I do appreciate Kate listening to Randall in this episode.  This was an instance where the best thing to do is to shut up and listen, and Kate did that.  She didn't get defensive and make excuses, which I think would have been season one Kate.  

Have Kate and Randall ever talked to Kevin about his issues? About how he must have felt being no one’s favorite?  Have Randall and Kevin ever talked to Kate about her weight?

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Omg all this waiting in these horrible times for this.... I'm WAY disappointed! 

For the first few minutes I was surprised that they actually incorporated Covid into the show but I actually was fine with it at first - thought it was an interesting twist. However it VERY quickly got old and as others have said you watch TV shows to kind of forget about your life for 45 mins - not to be reminded about horrific events going on that you hear about in the news 24/7. It just makes you sad - and not in the usual good TIU way but a "Im sick of life" way. Ugh. Same goes for the black lives matter. I really think they have already touched upon racism on this show, I really don't think they need to drag this down our throat. It has gotten WAY too political correct. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for #BLM in real life, but I just don't need to see it on a TV show when it has been ALL over everywhere already. 

Also I think it was way weird how they handled Kevin's twins news. It felt so fake. I'm confused - in the fast forward there was only a boy. Do we think he loses the girl twin? Or is it just another plot twist and she will be there too. I am SO curious to see the adorbs kids Kevin would have. He is, after all, insanely gorgeous. 

Speaking of kids. I freaking miss the young big 3. If it was up to me they should be included in EVERY episode. Either the toddlers, pre-teens or teenagers. That is one of the most interesting parts of the show I feel like. Seeing how all these small or big events in your childhood years form you into the person you are today. I just love it. Give me more! Also love the young actors! 

I. Could. Not. Care. Less. About. Randall. And. His. Biological. Parents. Been there, done that. DON'T GO THERE WRITERS! To be honest Randall annoyed be THE ENTIRE episodes and I'm really fed up with him. Move on!! He has been the focus for SO long. Please stop. 

I laughed out loud with the text exchange between him and Kevin. SO so so real. Imagine how often it happens in real life and how much better the world would be if everyone could just let down their guards and be real no matter how much people has hurt us. 

I guess thats all - I kind of was in and out of sleep... that's saying a lot after having waited FOREVER for new episodes. Please make it better! Season 1 good! 

Edited by Ana88
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14 hours ago, Sheggy50G said:

As always, Kevin has to make the first attempt at reconciliation. Why?

That is not true. Randall first texted Kevin to congratulate him. Initially, Kevin wrote that he was glad to hear from Randall, but deleted the text and simply replied a cold "thanks". Randall was disappointed in the reply.

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8 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

Have Kate and Randall ever talked to Kevin about his issues? About how he must have felt being no one’s favorite?  Have Randall and Kevin ever talked to Kate about her weight?

Nope.  The Pearsons don't have those kind of conversations.  They dance around the big issues and keep their feelings buried until they can't stuff them in anymore.  The kids all learned that from Jack who used boxing to beat away his feelings until that did not work and he began drinking again.  

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6 hours ago, bybrandy said:

all I am saying is you can discuss the lived experience of your mixed race children without belittling the lived experience of disabled people especially when you are admitting here that your experience of disabled people.  In no way, at all, am I saying even a little bit that being disabled is the same as being black or mixed race in America.  I am certainly not saying that being disabled is worse than being black or mixed race in America.  But here you have just said that it took you literal years to convince medical professionals that disabled people have a right to be able to physically access the building in which they receive medical care.   That's what you've just said here.   So maybe I'm saying in your very real and important advocacy for your mixed race children you don't lessen the very real struggles of others.   

As a disabled person, thank you for saying this. Lest we forget, the Americans with Disabilities Act was only passed in 1990. 30 years ago. The Civil Rights Act, 1964.

Unfortunately, there will always be discrimination - disability, race...that's reality.

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What if Randall's bio mom turns out to be Deja's grandma that helped raised her and that means Deja is actually Randall's niece?  That would be nice and twisty.

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Interesting that in the last 3 days I've watched two shows, TIU and Flesh and Blood on PBS, where in the final second of the episode a character within moments of death suddenly opens their eyes in a camera close up.  

 

 

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