S04.E12: Patty

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

The group makes some new friends.

Original air date: 1/23/20

[chaifan]

Did everyone get the Chidi meets Old Spice Guy commercial?  daaaammmmn. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by chaifan

[ClareWalks]

Lisa Kudrow is always perfection. I'm also glad they figured out an excellent solution for the "boring eternity" problem quite quickly. Can't wait to see what the finale has in store!

[Yokosmom]

So I assume next week, some or all of them are going to walk through the door? Or will there be one last twist?

[ParadoxLost]

16 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Did everyone get the Chidi meets Old Spice Guy commercial?  daaaammmmn. 

Yep.

I was so nervous when the good place reps took Michael away to make him a good place architect.  I just knew they were up to no good.

Not surprised that the Good Place wasn't working. I was surprised that they solved it that fast.  And honestly, it seemed a little easy to be the whole solution.  I kind of think that long time residents will decide to go pretty quickly after deciding to stay a little longer because they haven't really fixed that there is nothing making them/allowing them to work towards a goal.

I'm guessing a time jump and that by the next episode they'll decide to go through the door.  I'm just not sure if they'll leave it to the imagination or reveal what happens if they do.

[Chaos Theory]

I mean the Bad Place wasn’t working.   Of course The Good Place wouldn’t  be working either.   I did like that they figured out the problem easily.   It make next weeks finale seen like all of them are going to consider the pros and cons of walking through the door.

I did like the idea of a mish mash of the perfect party for the whole gang.   And that Eleanor wanted Tahani to talk to all the important people so the two of them

 could make fun of them later.  “I’ve been training my whole life for this.”

Of course the Good Place would have flying puppies.   

and yeah I was nervous when Michael was taken away without the group.  

Edited January 24, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[phalange]

I love how the cold open segued into the opening titles. Also rainbow-eyed Janet.

Lisa Kudrow as Hypatia! Remember when Michael said Phoebe was the only Friend deserving of the Good Place? Chidi freaking out about meeting her was classic Chidi. “Is she the reason you got beat up so much?” Lmao. “Number piles” is how I’m referring to math from now on.

The Good Place committee just peacing out and leaving Michael in charge sounds about right from what we know of them. 

I was absolutely not expecting the solution to be a magic door that makes you even deader than dead (if that’s what it does). I wonder if the very last scene next week will be them walking through it together like they did in this episode for their welcome party.

”Everything is fine.” Ok, who’s cutting onions in here? 

[Wanda]

I actually got goosebumps when the good place committee welcomed Michael and said they wanted to make him an architect (before knowing it was a scam). I’m way too invested in their afterlives.

I think the magic door will be like the door on How I Met Your Mother. It’s just a closet, but it’s all in knowing that it exists and that alone will make everyone’s’ existence better.

[Linny]

Lisa Kudrow! When Patty began flipping out about everyone being screwed I had a moment of panic that some last minute crisis was going to derail everyone's bliss, but no. This is truly The Good Place, where every desire is fulfilled. If an abundance of happiness winds up resulting in diminishing returns? Then you can walk out the door to go vibe with the universe for eternity. Simple, easy, nothing to stress about. It's their time to use as they want it.

"I would've killed for a vaccine. Any vaccine. It's crazy that you guys just don't like them now." PREACH. I wish we could have seen more hot takes from the long-dead citizens of The Good Place, honestly.

Michael's incredulous "It DID?" response to Jason saying go-karting with monkeys became boring was probably my biggest laugh of the night. Pitch-perfect delivery by Ted Danson right there. I don't know if I've ever actually expressed this before, but the interplay between Michael and Jason, in which Michael is equal parts exasperated and fond of Jason, is a real delight. And then they got high together, hee!

The discussion of how wonderful things are made special specifically because they come to an end hits hard when we're at the heels of the finale. This has been one of the loveliest TV experiences I've ever been apart of, truly.

[mammaM]

Is it dusty in here? 

Damn, I love this show. And this episode would have worked as a finale. Especially the final scene, Chidi and Eleanor and that view. Next week will just be the cherry on top

[Yokosmom]

Also loved Jason’s face when he realized that Michael had smoked the weed.

[Chaos Theory]

Someone who writes for The Good Place must really like vampire stories or stories about immortality because one of the overriding themes of immortality based storylines is that it actually really really sucks that living forever gets old real quick that getting everything you want gets old real quick.   I can see that happening in heaven because with a Janet handing you whatever you want just because you ask for it there is nothing to work for.    
 

I am actually surprised the door is just a door to end your existence for good.  I would think there might be a door for something like reincarnation.   WhT if you had a chance to start over and do it all over again?

Would you?  

[Dots And Stripes]

30 minutes ago, Wanda said:

I actually got goosebumps when the good place committee welcomed Michael and said they wanted to make him an architect (before knowing it was a scam). I’m way too invested in their afterlives.

I think the magic door will be like the door on How I Met Your Mother. It’s just a closet, but it’s all in knowing that it exists and that alone will make everyone’s’ existence better.

I like that idea. There is something really depressing to think about the best people to ever exist committing some sort of eternal suicide. That was my problem with this episode.

My fear is that our four humans will walk through the door next time. It's funny you mentioned HIMYM because that's where my mind went when considering whether the ending will have some really dark undertones. I trust that Schur would have some sort of uplifting spin on the ending, but tonight made me wonder if the finale is going to give me some existential dread.

[chaifan]

I'll admit, I've got mixed feelings about this episode.  I felt they handled the "how to fix the bad place" really well - did it over a few episodes, with a few twists here and there.  This all felt so rushed, though.  This could easily have been two, if not 3 or 4, episodes.  I would have liked to see more of the ennui, learned more about the current Good Place residents, had them wrestle a little more with finding the solution.  I know they wanted to end the show on a high note, not let it get stale, but I feel they could have easily made this season into two, and this episode is a perfect example for that.  But, since I'm obviously not getting that (damn it, where's a Janet when you need one?)...

Everything about this episode was so sweet.  Loved that they walked into the party together.  But I felt there was very little Tahani or Chidi about the party.  80% Eleanor and Jason (simply because I wouldn't be able to tell their parties apart).  Loved the return of the shrimp dispenser.  Loved Lisa Kudrow.   Loved that everyone wanted to hang out and party, now they know they can commit Good Place hari kari whenever they want.  Really not sure what to expect next week.

[Aileen]

I hated this so much. Like furiously hated it. There has to be more to this story than basically encouraging people to end their existence.

[Minneapple]

Michael in the robe was hilarious. "And then they sorted you into Hufflepuff?" Lol.

Lisa Kudrow! 

[steelyis]

Did not see Micheal becoming God coming. He's probably below Judge Gen in the cosmic hierarchy, but he runs actual heaven now. That's one heck of a come up.

Please, please, please, let the show end on a happy note! I do not want anyone walking off into oblivion. I want forever after for all my dear, little cockroaches.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I’ve had the old Twilight Zone episode “A Nice Place to Visit” in my head since last week, so I was expecting the Good Place to be messed up somehow for the same reason (though with flipped locales 🙂 )

[lavenderblue]

I am another who hated the kinda nihilistic overtones to the solution this episode implied -- the best outcome for your life is choosing to vanish into the ether, etc. Not to say this is where the door absolutely leads; it's the hint of it at this point that bothered me.

However, I also hated the failure of everyone in this ep to recognize the Good Place's real problem: everything comes with no effort. Now this is something I assumed would be addressed immediately, because it's a message the show's hinted at in the past and was a key component of Brent's issues. What often makes things enjoyable in life is not the knowledge that they'll end; it's the pain, the risk, the boredom that it's taken to achieve those things, making them a reward. This Good Place melted Hypatia's brain because she had no work to do, not because she was happy all the time. This could be dealt with next week, too -- maybe Good Place residents get enlisted to help out Michael or something on a rotating basis -- but I couldn't believe it was just unsaid here.

Edited January 24, 2020 by lavenderblue

[SomeTameGazelle]

53 minutes ago, Aileen said:

I hated this so much. Like furiously hated it. There has to be more to this story than basically encouraging people to end their existence.

I didn't interpret it as encouraging them to end their existence at all, because when they explained it they were completely clear that it was just there as an option and no one ever had to do it. I am curious to see whether anyone does try it or if it turns out that Eleanor's idea that just the option would have a psychological benefit and give them all the will to carry on was enough.

Edited January 24, 2020 by SomeTameGazelle
Complete thought.

[pennben]

The good place is time...that broke me a bit having recently lost my mom. Time, not a place. 

Also, Lisa Kudrow noting that it was “the friendships” that saved Chidi, but also noting she didn’t have that quite right!😀
 

[jmonique]

I know the Good Place has been in stasis, to an extent, for hundreds of years, but you'd think they'd realize that will change with an influx of millions of people.

Also, I'm surprised they'd jump straight to letting everyone engage in assisted suicide, as opposed to, say, starting new programs and activities: Chidi teaches philosophy and learns guitar from Jimmy Hendrix; Tahani becomes a talk show host, etc. Basically, institute things for people to work on and toward, helping one another, as opposed to just letting Janets fulfill their every material desire. The Fake Good Place had people working in roles, and activities for residents.

Did anyone figure out what the magically soothing chime probably really means?

Jason and Janet continues to be all tell, barely show for me. 

I do love Michael knowing Jasonw ell enough to nail his perfect home. 

I really, really will be annoyed if next week's episode skips a Jeremy Bearimy or two and ends with our crew ending their existences. Just putting it out there.

I would also like to go back to my point earlier this season that we could have used half as much Brent and gotten more time for things like, I dunno, not fast-tracking the realization that the Good Place is full of happiness zombies.

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by jmonique

[DanaK]

From other comments I’ve read, the door may not actually exist yet, so they got ahead of themselves

[Amarsir]

1 hour ago, Aileen said:

I hated this so much. Like furiously hated it. There has to be more to this story than basically encouraging people to end their existence.

I didn't hate it, but it does disappoint me that they thought what's missing is an exit and not some sense of purpose. Since episode one I've been bothered that people in The Good Place didn't seem to care about other humans - either in The Bad Place or back on Earth. Now demons are designing tests to make humans better, but Good Place people only pursue hedonism? Seems like a miss to me.

It is an interesting philosophical perspective though, that mortality is necessary to the human condition. I don't mind that they explored it. It just felt really insufficient.

[mikem]

The tone of this episode seemed kind of off to me.  Very little in it, particularly in the second half, was humorous, and the message seemed to be that the ultimate "best" outcome is to truly die and lose any consciousness, which was a downer.  The episode seemed more about accepting death rather than the usual message for this show, which is can we become better people, and if so, how?  The episode also didn't end on any kind of cliffhanger; I don't remember the last time an episode ended in a way that didn't seem to raise questions about what was going to happen next. 

The Good Place residents are bored because they aren't coming up against any novel or challenging situations.  It seems they could mentor the new arrivals in what is now Vicky's place, which would stimulate them.  Or they could have worked on how to make The Good Place more interesting.  Or something.  It's weird that the show paints the Good Place inhabitants, who would generally have been altruistic, thoughtful people while alive, as being so passive that they need our Team to show them how to be interested in the world again.

Edited January 24, 2020 by mikem

[possibilities]

They could become bodhisattvas, and actually go back to earth or the other departments of the afterlife, and help others, if they need a challenge. The idea that the best people are bored doing nothing but gratify urges makes sense,  but the idea that death or pain or struggle are the remedy strikes me as a very weird idea. I thought the show all along has been about how connections with others, FRIENDSHIP, was what gratifies. Why is it that the Good Place undoes that and just says sensory pleasure and frivolous distraction are the only reward possible, and totally ignores the possibility of deepening consciousness or expanding connection?

 

[pennben]

I trust Mike Schur to stick the landing of this show. I do not trust him to resolve the philosophical/religious differences on what the afterlife entails and find an answer that makes all happy!!!  Let’s keep expectations realistic!

Edited January 24, 2020 by pennben

[ParadoxLost]

1 minute ago, pennben said:

I trust Mike Schur to stick the landing of this show. I do not trust him to resolve the philosophical/religious differences on what the afterlife entails and find an answer that makes all happy!!!  Let’s keep expectations realistic!

I think he already got us one last time. And that is all I really wanted.  So I'll cross my fingers that its true next week. And that's all I'm saying in here. 

[Harvey]

Was earth The Good Place all along?

Wow, that's the real twist.

[QuantumMechanic]

31 minutes ago, possibilities said:

but the idea that death or pain or struggle are the remedy strikes me as a very weird idea.

Captain James T. Kirk would disagree with you 🙂

[GaT]

2 hours ago, Aileen said:

I hated this so much. Like furiously hated it. There has to be more to this story than basically encouraging people to end their existence.

 

1 hour ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

I didn't interpret it as encouraging them to end their existence at all, because when they explained it they were completely clear that it was just there as an option and no one ever had to do it. I am curious to see whether anyone does try it or if it turns out that Eleanor's idea that just the option would have a psychological benefit and give them all the will to carry on was enough.

I interpreted it like euthanasia. I read an article a long time ago (I don't remember any of the specifics) about a study that was done in a country where euthanasia was legal. They discovered that once people who were seriously ill were given the option to painlessly end their lives when they chose, they actually lived longer. Just taking away the stress of having to live increased their quality of life. That was the first thing I thought of when they came up with the plan, they were taking away the stress of having to live. 

[bros402]

That was a nice episode. I liked it - this episode also felt like it could have been a series finale, so what the fork are they gonna do next week for the ACTUAL series finale?

 

oh no is it going to end in the ultimate Lost homage and have them go through the door, then it ends on Eleanor's eyes closing as they walk through?

Edited January 24, 2020 by bros402

[DrScottie]

So wait a second, the bureaucratically inept Good Place committee outright lied to Michael about the contract he was signing and left him completely in the lurch? They can't decide on anything, but they had no problems with that. 

Do they even realize that they just put a reformed demon / 6,000 ft fire squid wearing a human suit in charge?  

[thuganomics85]

Lisa Kudrow as a milkshake drinking Hypatia, whose brain has turned into mush due to boredom in The Good Place is the type of casting I can get behind!

Not surprised that one of the issues of The Good Place is that there can be too much of a good thing, and its residences have grown bored of the place.  Eleanor's reference to never-ending vacations is on point, because I do think vacations would lose their meeting if there was never that eventual end date. 

So, I'm glad the show is addressing this, even though I'm not sure about a resolution, where they can eventually just cease to exist, once they are finally done.  I think they should have first tried and find ways to bring tasks or challenges into the Good Place, so that the residences can use their brains and whatnot to solve them.  Or maybe even find ways to create jobs that they would love.  Heck, Shawn already brought up his concerns over the demons having nothing to do in previous episodes.  Cast them as some form of adversaries for the Good Place folks.  I just feel the jump to "ceasing to exist" is coming to ahead way too quick.

Don't worry, Eleanor!  I know exactly what you are talking about with that toilet pan and the time Stone Cold Steve Austin smacked Vince McMahon with it.  Oh, 90s WWE/WWF!

William Jackson Harper was perfect during his scenes with Chidi fanboying over Hypatia.

Glad Michael has found a place as the new boss of The Good Place, even if he got tossed into it unexpectedly.

Curious to see how the finale will play out next week.  A lot can change in an hour, but I remember that Parks & Recreation's finale didn't really hold any surprises, and was just letting its stories and characters settle into their final roles.  I guess we'll see, soon!

[companionenvy]

I have to say that it is a sign of this show's enduring brilliance that they introduced a version of Hypatia of Alexandria who is played by Lisa Kudrow, goes by Patty, and can't remember the word math.

But while I loved 85 percent of the ep, I have to agree with everyone who said this felt extremely rushed. As someone terrified of death and supremely uncomforted by the idea of peaceful nonexistence, I would probably never agree with the idea they are proposing here, but if it had come at the end of an arc, I could see it working dramatically and thematically for the show. But there's just no way that that is the first solution these guys come up with. 

Especially with the way the universe is changing, there are so many possibilities for resolving much of this existential ennui. Maybe not in the scale of eternity, but at least until the very distant future. I'd really prefer an arc where team cockaroach shows these people how to care again than one in which, five minutes after confronting the problem, they pose annihilation as an answer. I mean, Michael is much, much older than anyone in TGP and he's finding ways to grow and change and experience.

[Kiddvideo]

I’m not looking forward to next week after this. I understand the concept that having options increases happiness, but why does it have to be all or nothing? It’s like we need another medium place rather than an “enjoy it while you can because you’re all going to die” message. 

It also seems now the Brent et al arc could’ve been cut down, and I’m not a Lisa Kudrow fan, so that took me right out of the story. I’m too invested in the show, I guess. This episode irked me.

[ClareWalks]

I'm surprised so many people are so bothered by the nonexistance option. That's what afterlife means to many, many folks who are agnostic or atheist. Not sure why it's depressing, since people who choose to go through will no longer have consciousness, so it's not like they're forever sitting in darkness. Plus they only walk through when and IF they choose to.

Edited January 24, 2020 by ClareWalks

[Darian]

3 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

I'm surprised so many people are so bothered by the nonexistance option. That's what afterlife means to many, many folks who are agnostic or atheist. Not sure why it's depressing, since people who choose to go through will no longer have consciousness, so it's not like they're forever sitting in darkness. Plus they only walk through when and IF they choose to.

I am an atheist, and I didn't like their solution. I personally believe that when we die, we just end, and I'm fine with that (am in hospice, so people ask me about it a lot). But for this show, where there is an afterlife, I didn't like them not finding a better solution. They don't even know what going through the door would be or do.

Give residents a task, a purpose, a challenge. The door idea just seemed to lack imagination. The Good Place when they arrived is always how I thought an endless existence of peace and joy without having challenges and ways to contribute would become. It would get tedious. I'm fine with the idea that we just end, but as a solution within this world,this story, it just feels lazy. 

[Kanner]

It is always the little things for me this this show. The episode had three great ones. Chidi's unintentional LiL Jon impression (Yeah! Okay!), Chidi's repeated Nos when he found out about the problem with the Good Place, and the groups (especially Michael's) reaction to Jason being bored with the racing.

[Ailianna]

I'm not convinced the door does actually lead to the end of things.  We (in real life) none of us KNOW what happens after we die.  So there are a lot of guesses and theories, but until you do it, you don't know.  I think they are presuming what would happen, but until you walk through the door,  you can't KNOW.  It was even hinted at in the answers they gave about not knowing exactly what it was.  It restored not only options, but something more important--uncertainty.  The reason to work on things is because we don't always know how they will turn out--finding out is part of the joy of living.  The game is only worth playing because we don't know how it will end.  (TM DS9's Emissary.)

[Blakeston]

So the people who made it to the Good Place really were terrific people who lived exemplary lives. But they don't give a damn about the fate of virtually everyone they knew on earth?

Even if they weren't specifically told about how horrible the Bad Place is, they still should have been deeply concerned about how few people were in the Good Place, and what that meant for the rest of humanity.

[Notwisconsin]

I think they got the whole concept from this:

 

1 minute ago, Blakeston said:

So the people who made it to the Good Place really were terrific people who lived exemplary lives. But they don't give a damn about the fate of virtually everyone they knew on earth?

In Medieval Christian theology, the people in heaven become sadists and spend eternity watching the tortures of Hell and having a wonderful time doing it.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Notwisconsin

[Ray Adverb]

I thought for a moment that was the finale.  But I also swore I remembered there being 13 episodes.  It had a lot of finality to it. 

Chidi going fanboy over some ancient philosopher most people have never heard of was gold.  I also like that they addressed what has always seemed like a problem with Heaven.  Sure it's nice, but with eternity, you're gonna get bored.

I like Michael's idea of periodic mind wiping.  Their excuse for not doing that was kinda lame. 

So I guess when you go through the new door, you just get eternal unconsciousness?  Some peaceful oblivion?  Maybe they'll do reincarnation instead.

[Harvey]

The entire concept of the good place demonstrated in here was flaved. If Phoebe had a wish for more stimulation/intelligence, the good place should have automtically fulfilled that need just like it kept giving her those milkshakes. There is no reason why the good place's capabilities should be limited to giving material things to it's residents only. It's only written this way so the writers can create some sort of moral point in the finale but actually, the good place should have no problem with keeping it's reisdents's minds sharp if that is what they desire.

[Catfi9ht]

The scene where Michael is high reminded me of a short-lived show on HBO called Bored to Death. Ted Danson and Zach Galifianakis were really good in it.

A few episodes into the first season, Ted's and Zach's characters are on a stakeout where they have to watch the clock, but they decide to get high while they're waiting. Zach's character asks Ted's character how long it's been, and Ted's delivery of "I don't know I'm on marijuana minutes" cracks me up every time I think about it.

Jason Schwartzman is the main character and I'm not a fan of his, but the supporting cast is fantastic. I highly recommend it if you haven't seen it.

I'm really glad they got Lisa Kudrow as a guest star. I think her comedic and dramatic abilities are really underappreciated.

My favorite "little things" moment this episode: When Jason exits the green door after go-carting with the monkeys and you get a little snippet of monkeys screeching and tires squealing in the background which totally sells Jason's fantasy in a short moment.

[Chaos Theory]

I think everyone is assuming the show  is saying “you need to go through the door RIGHT NOW DIE DIE AFTERLIFE IS MEANINGLESS”. When the exact opposite is beIng said.   
 

Eventually Chidi is going to read every book ever written.   Jason is going to do every crazy stunt there is to do.   Tahani is going to talk to every VIP worth talking to.   Eleanor is going to flirt with everyone worth flirting with. They are all going to get bored.  Not today.  Not tomorrow.   Maybe in a thousand years time.   And there is no reason to mentor other people in the Good Place because what exactly do you mentor them on?   How to ask a Janet for a rocket ship?   You could even ask her to do that math problem you could never figure out in life.    Or just party and drink milkshakes until even that gets old.

There has to be an end at some point.

a finale.

A point where things just stop.

Even The Good Place

Edited January 24, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[Helena Dax]

I remember having read that the human mind can't really grasp the concept of eternity. In any case, I simply think that humans aren't made for eternity. Unless there's some spiritual evolution and we become something else, something inhuman, eternity is bound to become torture. So the twist about Patty and the others sounds very logical to me. 

Otoh, who knows what's really on the other side of the door? I mean, if there's something like a God in the show's universe, crossing that door could actually lead to another level of existence that goes beyond humanity. However, I don't think the characters have ever mentioned the existence of a God.

I loved the episode and it was a joy to see Lisa Kudrow as Patty. Chidi's reaction to her was one of the best things in the world. And ffs, one of Tahani's godparents is the Big Ben!!!!

[wingster55]

For me personally, with all the books, shows, movies there are I don’t know if I’d get bored that fast. 

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, Notwisconsin said:

In Medieval Christian theology, the people in heaven become sadists and spend eternity watching the tortures of Hell and having a wonderful time doing it.

I'm trying to resist the urge to make a comparison to some hateful "Christians" (in quotes because I don't consider them true Christians) today using political power to torture those they deem un-Christian or unworthy. Oops, I guess I didn't resist the urge, and I will understand if the moderator deletes the comment.

[Grundoon59]

Like PennBen, I am viewing this through the prism of loss - my 95 year old Mother Grundoon died very unexpectedly but peacefully on Monday.  This episode wasn't perfect but I flat out sobbed through parts of it (in a good way) and laughed hard at others.  I wish I believed I would see her and everyone else I loved again but I can view the time I had with her as part of my Good Place.  Now I work on creating the next part which I hope will give my life some meaning.