S15.E10: Week 10

[Stan39]

5 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

And after the back and forth with Luke started, Tyler tweeted in support of Hannah. He’s the only guy on the show that I follow, so I don’t know if anyone else did. 

Anyway, I just saw this article, in which Hannah says she misjudged Tyler. 

https://www.tvinsider.com/794489/hannah-tyler-bachelorette-2019-fantasy-suite/

It’s interesting to me that she felt that way. He couldn’t have been sweeter when they had their first date in the middle of all the Luke P./Luke S. drama. The way he focused on her and tried to get her mind off of it reminded me so much of Ashley’s date with JP after all the Bentley drama. Maybe that’s why Tyler’s my favorite bachelor since JP.

This stuff kills me. I don’t want to generalise Hannah to represent all women, but she definitely fits a type. This section plus the one above on her feelings for Luke show she not only horribly misjudges people, but she holds on to those initial impressions for WAY too long. To the detriment of her own well being. Maybe she’ll grow out of it, but something needs to click in her head that the initial feelings she had for Luke and Tyler were just that, not real, and she should have adapted as their real personalities came out over time. 

Or not. I really don’t care about Hannah, but I know people like her and it drives me nuts. 

[dleighg]

1 minute ago, nittanycougar said:

I am not sure what religion teaches that men are spiritual leaders.

oh that's a total thing in the more fundamental alleys of protestantism. I remember 30 years ago visiting with some high school friends of my "betrothed" who followed that river, and my now-husband's  friend talked about a sort of "benevolent dictator" model (or servant stewardship if you're being kind). They even gave us a book!

[DEL901]

50 minutes ago, ohcomeon said:

No, he bought into the "man is the spiritual leader of his household and will judge and control all within". That has nothing to do with actual "God" talk. 

6 minutes ago, dleighg said:

oh that's a total thing in the more fundamental alleys of protestantism. I remember 30 years ago visiting with some high school friends of my "betrothed" who followed that river, and my now-husband's  friend talked about a sort of "benevolent dictator" model (or servant stewardship if you're being kind). They even gave us a book!

There are other mainstream religions that also teach this.    I went to my nephew’s wedding and the officiant actually said in the ceremony that god was head over the man and the man was head over the woman And when he told he what to do he was just passing on god’s will.   A different sect, but sounds like something that fits Luke’s worldview.  

I’m sure Luke and Jed were supposed to be final 2.  I wonder who is plan b?

[Chefforhire]

Is it me, or does anyone else suspect Hannah passed on sex with Tyler because Peter simply wore her out? Or possibly Jed too if they were shown out of order? 

[leighdear]

18 minutes ago, Chefforhire said:

Is it me, or does anyone else suspect Hannah passed on sex with Tyler because Peter simply wore her out? Or possibly Jed too if they were shown out of order? 

I think the producers asked her if Tyler was in her final 2, and when she said no, they asked her not to have sex with him so they could more easily sell him as the new Bachelor. 

She agreed and was sworn to secrecy, so they mutually support each other on social media. 

Hey, every compelling show has to have a conspiracy within it! 

[tinkerbell]

44 minutes ago, nittanycougar said:

Their main connection was religion, and he thought they shared religious values.  Therefore, he thought because his religion teaches faith to one partner, Hannah was on the same page. Hannah lit up talking about their shared testimony and faith a few episodes ago.  That was definitely God talk.   I think Luke had some reason for believing they had similar values. I don't care at all for the guy, but I believe he thought they had the same values about sex.

It always confuses me when people talk about faith and religion and values and limit it to SEX.  Isn't it supposed to be about caring about others, feeding the poor, helping out the less fortunate, etc?   Or is "shared values"  only about sex? 

[GracieK]

4 minutes ago, tinkerbell said:

It always confuses me when people talk about faith and religion and values and limit it to SEX.  Isn't it supposed to be about caring about others, feeding the poor, helping out the less fortunate, etc?   Or is "shared values"  only about sex? 

I would think in this context the sex part of the values would be more relevant. I’m sure if they were married and involved in their church community it would involve helping the poor, feeding the homeless, etc. 

[tinkerbell]

21 minutes ago, GracieK said:

I would think in this context the sex part of the values would be more relevant. I’m sure if they were married and involved in their church community it would involve helping the poor, feeding the homeless, etc. 

I'm talking about a broader sense of when people say they "share the same values"  and the ONLY "value"  they are talking about is abstaining form sex.  I don't know, I went to years and years of religious school, and that certainly was not the emphasis.  

The idea of being a good Christian is not supposed to be "follow Jesus and don't fuck in windmills." 

Edited July 16, 2019 by tinkerbell

[waving feather]

1 hour ago, Stan39 said:

This stuff kills me. I don’t want to generalise Hannah to represent all women, but she definitely fits a type. This section plus the one above on her feelings for Luke show she not only horribly misjudges people, but she holds on to those initial impressions for WAY too long. To the detriment of her own well being. Maybe she’ll grow out of it, but something needs to click in her head that the initial feelings she had for Luke and Tyler were just that, not real, and she should have adapted as their real personalities came out over time. 

Or not. I really don’t care about Hannah, but I know people like her and it drives me nuts. 

From her talks with the men and trying to understand where they are coming from, I can tell she is an intelligent person. She listens actively and knows how to read between the lines. So it baffles me that her judgement and discernment is so poor. She knows based on the evidences they have shown what kind of men they are but she is letting initial feelings and her "heart" cloud her judgement. This is a scary thing because she knows what is right or wrong but still goes after it based on a feeling she once had.

[seacliffsal]

I think one of the reasons the Luke-Hannah interaction heated up so quickly is that due to her defending Luke at every stage of the show, sorry, journey she built the relationship up so much in her mind that when she finally realized just how wrong she was about Luke all of her frustrations with him just tumbled out.  It really takes a lot of energy to keep defending someone to everyone around you and I think she believed he really might be her F1.  And then it just all fell apart.  Luke really received a lot of "direction" from Hannah throughout the show and he probably thought he was doing and saying what she wanted.  Hannah tried to defend and "fix" him, he thought she was invested into him because he was going to be "the one."  It was a relationship mess.  It is the best for each of them that they both finally understood that they were not on the same page and had different religious understandings than they originally thought.

Peter and Tyler will have their reputations pretty much in tact after this show.  Not so sure about the others who were there at the end (including Hannah).

Now, for what's really important-Santorini is amazing!  Wasn't too impressed with Crete as I thought they were going to Mykonos or other islands that have better beaches.  However, I just loved all of the scenery and glimpses of Greece.

[GracieK]

8 minutes ago, tinkerbell said:

I'm talking about a broader sense of when people say they "share the same values"  and the ONLY "value"  they are talking about is abstaining form sex.  I don't know, I went to years and years of religious school, and that certainly was not the emphasis.  

The idea of being a good Christian is not supposed to be "follow Jesus and don't fuck in windmills." 

I guess I don’t know what you mean since that hasn’t been my experience. In my experience when people say they share the same values it’s in regards to their beliefs on family, faith, and community among other things. I went to 12 years of Catholic School and the values we were taught included abstinence but that certainly was far from the only one. Obviously everyone has their own experience though.

[GracieK]

8 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I think one of the reasons the Luke-Hannah interaction heated up so quickly is that due to her defending Luke at every stage of the show, sorry, journey she built the relationship up so much in her mind that when she finally realized just how wrong she was about Luke all of her frustrations with him just tumbled out.  It really takes a lot of energy to keep defending someone to everyone around you and I think she believed he really might be her F1.  And then it just all fell apart.  Luke really received a lot of "direction" from Hannah throughout the show and he probably thought he was doing and saying what she wanted.  Hannah tried to defend and "fix" him, he thought she was invested into him because he was going to be "the one."  It was a relationship mess.  It is the best for each of them that they both finally understood that they were not on the same page and had different religious understandings than they originally thought.

Peter and Tyler will have their reputations pretty much in tact after this show.  Not so sure about the others who were there at the end (including Hannah).

Now, for what's really important-Santorini is amazing!  Wasn't too impressed with Crete as I thought they were going to Mykonos or other islands that have better beaches.  However, I just loved all of the scenery and glimpses of Greece.

Great points. I think what you described regarding Hannah and Luke fits them to a tee and most of it is due to a lack of maturity. I also think Hannah doesn’t like being told what to do so like a somewhat petulant and rebellious child, the more the other guys tried to steer her away from Luke, the more she wanted to dig her heels in with him. And he definitely felt invested as he thought he was doing everything she asked of him.. poor communication that is also indicative of a lack of maturity and experience.

[tinkerbell]

2 hours ago, GracieK said:

I guess I don’t know what you mean since that hasn’t been my experience. In my experience when people say they share the same values it’s in regards to their beliefs on family, faith, and community among other things. I went to 12 years of Catholic School and the values we were taught included abstinence but that certainly was far from the only one. Obviously everyone has their own experience though.

Well, I was responding to posts that said that Hannah should have understood Luke assumed her to have the same feelings about sex because they "share the same values".   From what we saw of Luke on the show, the ONLY value he had was about not having sex.  he certainly was not kind to others, was openly aggressive, told lies, was manipulative.  That is what my recent posts on this topic are referring to, that "values"  Luke used to judge others about their sexual behavior.  Luke was a complete ass to all the other guys, but considers himself to be better because he's "Christian"  and stopped having sex.  

It also oddly seems like you are disagreeing with me by saying the same thing I am saying, which is confusing to me. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by tinkerbell
ETA to clarify, it was LUKE judging, not me

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, KenyaJ said:

It’s interesting to me that she felt that way. He couldn’t have been sweeter when they had their first date in the middle of all the Luke P./Luke S. drama. The way he focused on her and tried to get her mind off of it reminded me so much of Ashley’s date with JP after all the Bentley drama. Maybe that’s why Tyler’s my favorite bachelor since JP.

I just think Hannah's very stubborn with her feelings sometimes. Maybe that's immaturity, inexperience, not sure. But she said early in the season that it's easy for her to lazer in on someone and stick to that no matter what and I think that's what happened with Luke.

But I think that also translated to assumptions she made about some of the guys. She was so lazered in on Luke and then Jed because he physically and in many other ways matched her ideal guy that she almost closed herself off to anything else. And didn't allow the other relationships to truly develop. 

I said it back during Episode 2 and 3 that it was obvious Hannah was wary of Tyler and as attracted to him as she was, she clearly thought he was a player. Girl doesn't have any poker face and I felt like it was written all over her face during their interactions. It is disappointing that she never allowed herself to let go of these preconceived notions, even as she herself said she kept seeing more and more that it wasn't true, that there was more to him. 

I also think Tyler may have been a bit guarded and that allowed Hannah to further form these ideas about him. We saw it referenced multiple times by him, especially when talking to his family on his HTD, that he has a tendency to be a little closed off. And during their second one on one when she was grilling him on what he meant about the week being difficult and things being challenging that week, I felt like it was clear Hannah knew part of it had to do with Luke but she wanted him to share that and share those frustrations and I guess in Hannah's mind "be real". 

Tyler though likely didn't want to waste more time talking about Luke on what was his alone time and so you could see where he chooses to be purposely vague and not say anything else. At the end, I just think Hannah convinced herself that Tyler was one thing that despite all signs showing he wasn't, she never allowed herself to completely let go and build the relationship with him. 

[LBS]

So just watched the ending credits with Peter trying to throw the berry in her mouth and completely missing and kind of get why they had to do it twice.... 😉

[Kiss my mutt]

Luke in no way, shape, or form, exemplifies Christ. Using his new found celibacy to feel superior is antithesis to all Christ stood for. 

He’s raged filled, prideful, and entitled. 

[Mabinogia]

7 minutes ago, tinkerbell said:

From what we saw of Luke on the show, the ONLY value he had was about not having sex.

That is what is so strange to me. It makes me wonder what really happened to him that he is so laser focused on pre-marital sex being this great evil. It's not. Of all the possible sins out there I'd rather someone I like fuck me than lie to me, kill me, covet my neighbors wife (of course my neighbor is a widower so that would be creepy!), etc.

Really, sex with someone you are not married to is not actually harmful or evil. I'm not Christian so I really don't understand why is considered so terrible beyond the concept that sex is for making babies and you shouldn't make babies if you're not married, but I really, truly don't see the harm in it. 

They are not in an exclusive relationship and he should be well aware of that since I'm pretty sure someone explained to him what this show is by now. (I've read a few comments around the web suggesting she will end up cheating on her future husband. IDK where that comes from. She isn't cheating on anyone, and hasn't that we know of. One can enjoy having sex and be monogamous. Those two are not mutually exclusive. 

If Luke wants to believe that sex is evil but lying, gaslighting, manipulating and trying to control someone you claim to love and disregarding her wishes completely are all okay, that's his prerogative, but I hope to god any sensible women out there avoid him like the plague. Of course that's like saying water is wet. Of course a sensible woman would avoid him, she's sensible. lol

[Mabinogia]

2 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Luke in no way, shape, or form, exemplifies Christ. Using his new found celibacy to feel superior is antithesis to all Christ stood for. 

He’s raged filled, prideful, and entitled. 

Oh no! He's the anti-Christ. The end is coming!!!! Where's Crowley and Aziraphale? 

3 out of 7 Deadly Sins, not too shabby. I'd say he probably does have Lust too, but he's so "good" that he won't act on it. He's probably greedy too as I can't see any other motive for coming on this shitshow, since it wasn't for the booty. Though I admit that one is a stretch since he hasn't dropped any hints about his "brand" or showcased his "musical ability" (or in Jed's case, lack thereof), so he probably tops out at 3-4 out of 7. 

[saber5055]

13 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

Where's Crowley and Aziraphale? 

Crowley. HA ha ha. I'd def watch that season with him as Bachelor. Talk about bringing the DRAHMAH!

[XoxoGG]

1 hour ago, ApolloSun said:

I find Luke immature and definitely someone who needs to work on his communication skills, but I find Hannah to have so many narcissistic traits.  She seems incapable of receiving critique or seeing the perspective of another and becomes enraged when presented with anything other than agreement, compliments and praise.  Anytime someone dares to say anything that is contrary to her beliefs or agenda, I feel like they're walking on eggshells and I am just waiting for the next explosion. 

When I first started watching this season, I thought she was very pretty and my first impression of her attitude reminded me of a real-life "Samantha" from SATC.  but, you know, after a while, the near constant mounting of these men, along with her entitled attitude is getting really old, in my opinion.  I keep trying to empathize with her, but she just keeps alternating between a drama-queen and an emotional young girl pretending to be a strong woman.  I don't think she is strong at all. 

I also don't think many women would be applauding for a man who wanted to sleep with multiple women (to test them out!) and casually choose one at the end of the show.  He'd be bashed left and right!   Men have feelings and are quite capable of bonding through sex, just as women do.    

Why should she be allowed to hurt anyone's feelings or send mixed-signals without any consequences or confrontation?  Why the double-standard?  I am seriously tired of the "slut shaming" narrative used to defend this kind of thing.  It's not about the actual sex, in my view.  It's about self-respect and what sex might actually mean to the person you're sleeping with, whether that is a man or a woman.  It's about kindness too.   On several occasions, I don't think she has been very kind at all -- she wants her damn way and when she doesn't get it, she rolls up a newspaper and bats all of their noses like they're puppies to be trained.  I know this might sound harsh, but it's just how I see it.   

I said the same thing, she has narcissistic vibes about her and it's not because she is the Bachelorette either. I don't buy that excuse. No matter how much TPTB try to sell me this strong feminist girl, I can't buy it. There is a disconnect there.

I've said after the show is over she needs to go work on herself. The money she will make from shilling alone will afford her a nice therapist.

[nutty1]

I am SO SICK of Luke. I have skipped every post that is about him. I definitely got back more time in my day!! If Hannah does get her happily ever after with this, it will have been totally overshadowed by the Luke show.

Edited July 17, 2019 by nutty1

[saber5055]

Just now, nutty1 said:

I am SO SICK of Luke. I have skipped every post that is about him. I definitely got back more time in my day!!

According to the previews, you'll be skipping the rest of this season, too.

[AuntieDiane6]

Just as long as I don't have to skip the next season of The Bachelor, i'm good.

[Stats Queen]

9 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

Again, baloney, Luke.

If this was Luke's goal, pretty much the last place you'd go to do that would be a television reality show with the reputation of this franchise.

Having beliefs against pre-marital sex is, indeed, fine, it's just from the evidence that I don't believe that's really what Luke actually cares about.  If it were, he sure as heck would have talked about this much more specifically with Hannah long before the end of the season and the Fantasy Suite episode.  And she could have said much earlier "okay we disagree, have a good life, somebody else is getting the rose." 

But that's not what he did.  Luke waited until the very last minute-- after making himself the center of all the drama this season by acting like a total creep to the other bachelors (to the point where he didn't have a single other guy on his side from what I saw; again, Luke's supposed Christian beliefs sure don't extend into "loving thy neighbor" and "not bearing false witness") and by taking somebody else's spot to have the show pay for trips to all these exotic places.  If he'd had this same talk with Hannah early on, he could have merrily gone back to Georgia and found himself a like-minded love interest from all sorts of places.  But he didn't do that at all.

And this is one reason why it's really about both control and selfishness, not some profound sense of morals.  And why Hannah is right to be furious.  He acts like he wants Hannah to respect him by staying chaste for him, but he sure didn't respect her to talk with her seriously about it the many times he could have in the past.  For somebody who really did strongly feel the way Luke says he does, that particular strong belief should have come up a wee bit sooner than way after you've led somebody on for a long time and allowed the producers to pay for plenty of free vacations for you, no?

The one thing about Luke that's been consistent the whole season is that he's a lying hypocrite, who acted holier-than-thou when he was around Hannah and like a total jerk when he wasn't.  It's no different here.  I don't believe him at all that the pre-marital sex thing really matters that much-- it's just always making yourself the center of everything, the one in the driver's seat.  And that's selfishness, not faith.

All of this.

I’ve mentioned before that Luke reminds me of my ex-husband - scarily so. I escaped that particular hell in 1991 and have been remarried to my wonderful hubby for 24 years. So it’s been a really long time since I lived that experience and I don’t get triggered very often (been years in fact). People and situations remind me of that past and I accept it an move on. But Luke really, really triggers me, especially last night. So much that I had horrible nightmares that I haven’t had in over 15 years.

Just my personal slant and experience, which I respect is different for others on the forum.

I don’t wish him on anyone, including the disappointment that is Hannah Alabama.

[Riplet68]

Especially since she tried to get rid of Luke, it has always seemed to me she may have liked kissing him, but she didn’t like him. She consistently pulled back from him, gave him very short bro type hugs.  I couldn’t understand why she kept him around when she obviously didn’t like him. If she wasn’t so transparenT, I’d say she only kept him for production reasons.

She didn’t look too satisfied after her peter date, so surprised it was a two timer. She obviously wasn’t that thrilled with him after. Wonder if she wanted to talk more and things were too physical.

i think she and Tyler did knock boots, so not sure why they wouldn’t show the hints.  Tyler is a mystery looks wise to me. Sometimes I’m like, “omg, he’s so hot,” than the next minute I think he’s ugly. I HATE the way he dresses from the waist down.

count me in as one of those thinking Jed was trying to get kicked to the curb -but I couldn’t understand why he would than go after her and keep telling her he loved her.

i totally get being upset the person you think you love has slept with others, it was everything else idiot boy said. I didn’t see it as Hannah being mad that he was mad about the sex, she was mad with his judge mental and insulting words and manner.  The “you owe me,” was the final straw. His refusal to leave, and than his telling her that HE didn’t think she had found clarity.  What a tool.  Looks like more of that same attitude next week (same thing when she tried to kick him out before). What she says isn’t what matters, because HE knows they belong together.  😬

[Crs97]

Just rewatched that scene and girl dodged a bullet.  He tells her he doesn’t care that she said she found clarity because he feels like she hasn’t so he won’t get in the car.  Then he wants to pray over her.  Not with her, but over her. He is one scary, controlling guy.

[hypnotoad]

Quote

I don't think it is unreasonable for any man or woman to want their potential fiance to want them enough to refrain from sex with others within a week of their potential engagement.  Hannah's incredulity is puzzling. 

Of course it isn't unreasonable if this were real life. But they are on a 'reality' show where she is dating 20 men. Sorry but expecting fidelity and so forth in such a situation is ridiculous. Personally? After what he said, I would have let that asshat think I slept with every single one of the guys except him. I don't think her incredulity is puzzling at all. It is none of his damn business what she does with any of the other guys. Period. That's the point of this stupid show.

And she owes him? Pffft. Let that stalkerish idiot leave. He seems dangerous, controlling and far too judgemental for anyone in this universe.

Honestly the most I have enjoyed her for most of this season was her finally seeing Luke and getting pretty mad.

[EllenB]

To bad TPTB didn't send Hannah Hot Mess and Lordier-than-the-Lord Luke to Lesbos instead of Santorini.  His fundamentalist head would have exploded when a local resident introduced them to the works of Sappho.  A lot of time would have been saved, and it would have been less messy to clean his brain goo off the pavement than go through that excruciatingly long exit scene.

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, ApolloSun said:

I find Luke immature and definitely someone who needs to work on his communication skills, but I find Hannah to have so many narcissistic traits.  She seems incapable of receiving critique or seeing the perspective of another and becomes enraged when presented with anything other than agreement, compliments and praise.  Anytime someone dares to say anything that is contrary to her beliefs or agenda, I feel like they're walking on eggshells and I am just waiting for the next explosion. 

When I first started watching this season, I thought she was very pretty and my first impression of her attitude reminded me of a real-life "Samantha" from SATC.  but, you know, after a while, the near constant mounting of these men, along with her entitled attitude is getting really old, in my opinion.  I keep trying to empathize with her, but she just keeps alternating between a drama-queen and an emotional young girl pretending to be a strong woman.  I don't think she is strong at all. 

I also don't think many women would be applauding for a man who wanted to sleep with multiple women (to test them out!) and casually choose one at the end of the show.  He'd be bashed left and right!   Men have feelings and are quite capable of bonding through sex, just as women do.    

Why should she be allowed to hurt anyone's feelings or send mixed-signals without any consequences or confrontation?  Why the double-standard?  I am seriously tired of the "slut shaming" narrative used to defend this kind of thing.  It's not about the actual sex, in my view.  It's about self-respect and what sex might actually mean to the person you're sleeping with, whether that is a man or a woman.  It's about kindness too.   On several occasions, I don't think she has been very kind at all -- she wants her damn way and when she doesn't get it, she rolls up a newspaper and bats all of their noses like they're puppies to be trained.  I know this might sound harsh, but it's just how I see it.   

AMEN. You typed out every single one of my thoughts. I agree Luke has issues, but if I were one of these men, I'd run from the roses. I totally think she has narcissistic traits. The mouthing off, dramatics, constant tears, her way or the high way, it would be so exhausting being with her. Not wife material.

I think sleeping with different people back to back (whether you're man or woman) is gross, and I would not even think of getting engaged to someone who just slept with someone else. Call me old-fashioned, a prude, I don't care. I think there's a big difference between expecting perfection from someone and expecting them to not be sleeping with different dudes back to back just as I think I may get engaged. He didn't complain about any of the flaws we just discussed, it's very different imo. And yes, men very much have feelings. Even if they're not aggressive like Luke, if they have genuine feelings for Hannah, you know they have to be hurting inside trying so hard not to show it. 

I too feel like I'm being harsh when I discuss Hannah, but I really don't see her as a prize, at least not now. She is pretty, and she is pretty. In time she may mature and not be so dramatic and might be more caring towards a husband, I don't know. For right now, horrible choice for Bachelorette. There were so many beautiful women last season. There was even another Hannah who would have been far better! 

Even if you argue Luke knew what he was signing up for and that other contestants have slept with people just before getting engaged (I haven't watched the franchise long enough to know how many), I still don't think Hannah handled the season well overall. 

[TheFinalRose]

19 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

She seems incapable of receiving critique or seeing the perspective of another and becomes enraged when presented with anything other than agreement, compliments and praise. 

I just hope there are cameras there to see Hannah get enraged when she opened up People or Us or whatever rag it was that revealed Jed had a girlfriend and only came to promote his music. Yeah, he told her about the music but not the girlfriend and I think Miss Go Ballistic when she hears something she doesn't like probably won't be too happy that Jed omitted that tiny fact.

Or maybe I'm just hoping. I know Luke's the villain but, hey, at least he looks like he loves her. Jed says the words but his eyes are looking for a way out.    

[Refresh]

3 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

Personally? After what he said, I would have let that asshat think I slept with every single one of the guys except him. 

If it was me I might even add a few.... like...Remember Garrett? When we naked bungee jumped? Lil Garrett slipped in. Is that what you mean by a slip? Cuz it’s happenink. 

Or something. 😉

I don’t see Hannah as a narcissist. I’ve known a few. She’s Dramatic yes. Self oriented.  But she is the lead of the show so it kind of is about her. 

[Meowwww]

Yup another Luke post. 

He’s what, 23?  His know-it-all, verbal diarrhea of platitudes remind me of when I was that age.  My friends and I knew it all, we were sure we had this life thing in the bag. Our ideas were right and no one else knew anything cuz we KNEW who we were. Ha ha, right? 

I see it in my nieces and nephews now too. (I don’t have kids).  I think 40 year old Luke will look back and be embarrassed. I am embarrassed by who I was back then, but it’s part of growing up.  

I also think Luke and Hannah have some past life brother-sister thing.  I promise I am not weird, lol...but I believe in past lives and spirits and etc  😜

[StatisticalOutlier]

13 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

That is what is so strange to me. It makes me wonder what really happened to him that he is so laser focused on pre-marital sex being this great evil. It's not. Of all the possible sins out there I'd rather someone I like fuck me than lie to me, kill me, covet my neighbors wife (of course my neighbor is a widower so that would be creepy!), etc.

But it was premarital sex that prompted Jesus's visit to Luke's shower, so I can understand singling that out as the great evil.

.

11 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Then he wants to pray over her.  Not with her, but over her. He is one scary, controlling guy.

It was the praying "over" her that got me, too.

[JudyObscure]

"Praying over" is just evangelical lingo for praying for someone.  In the scene with Luke's Sunday School class where they were all gathered around Luke as he knelt they were "praying over him."  It's often done on parting as a big "be safe on your journey" sort of thing.

I'm bothered by the high standards Luke is being held to just because he says he's a Christian.  When people say that they are saying they believe in Jesus as a divine being and they have chosen to try to follow his teachings.  Try.  It's assumed they will fail over and over. They aren't  saying they are like Jesus, or that they ever expect to come close to his perfection.  

Of course Luke is prideful and all the other things he's been accused of.  It's much easier to do something concrete like quit having sex than it is to control feelings.  Even the most saintly people probably have moments of pride after a day at the soup kitchen or flashes of anger on the highway.

What gets me is why all these other guys are so prideful and  so superior to Luke that they can't  stand to be on the same stage with him.  They  too have been dishonest.  They too,  and Hannah, are just as prideful or they would never even have applied to be on a show where they think they have a chance to beat out 20 others in a contest that's basically about looks and charm. 

Luke has been looked down on and reviled and even sneered at for his height, something he has no control over, and that's all fine, those guys think they're all wonderful compared to him.  Hannah is insulting, controlling, critical and has a temper that goes from zero to eighty in seconds. Yet, she thinks she's way better than Luke and feels free to kick him out and give him the finger.

 She was so incensed to find out Luke thought less of her for sleeping with three or four men in a row, but she is now telling the world she ruled out Tyler because she thought he was a f-boy.  What now? Just imagine if one of the male leads of this show had said, "I loved making out with hotty-Jane, but I didn't take her to the finals because I thought she was a f-girl."

I guess there are three standards; one very generous one for women, one very strict one for men, and one impossible one for Christian men.

[Zahdii]

4 hours ago, Meowwww said:

Yup another Luke post. 

He’s what, 23?  His know-it-all, verbal diarrhea of platitudes remind me of when I was that age.  My friends and I knew it all, we were sure we had this life thing in the bag. Our ideas were right and no one else knew anything cuz we KNEW who we were. Ha ha, right? 

I see it in my nieces and nephews now too. (I don’t have kids).  I think 40 year old Luke will look back and be embarrassed. I am embarrassed by who I was back then, but it’s part of growing up.  

I know what you mean.  I cringe when I think back on the many times I was young and made some proclamation where I informed everyone that they had it all wrong.  My whole attitude was "It's not like you think, but I'm a benevelont sort, so I'll clue you in."  Then I'd sit back and wait for people to realize I was so very, very right, admire me for my insight, and feel grateful to me for sharing it with them.  For some reason I was ignored, or saw eyerolls and shared glances among my audience.  Sometimes even outright accusations that I didn't know what the hell I was talking about.  How rude!  Here I was, sharing my pearls of wisdom and this was the thanks I got.

Over time, I was proven wrong often enough that I became more circumspect.  There were too many times where I'd say "That never happens," until it did.  "I would never," until I did.  "My kid doesn't do that," and then...  It's quite embarrassing. 

Now, I try to reign in my declarative impulses.  I say "I hope that doesn't happen, although I know/heard it's happened before."  "I used to think I'd never do that, until --."  "My kids didn't do that very much, but there was a time or two when they did."

It's kind of cool now.  My kids are all over the age of 20, and they sometimes come to me for advice.  Often they get it without asking for it.  They don't always take my advice, and I understand why, but sometimes they'll tell me that I was right, and they don't always say it like they're amazed.  It helps that I'm better at admitting that their situation isn't the exact same situation that I'm drawing from.  But I can often steer them in the right direction to get advice from someone who knows what they're talking about.  I think it gives extra weight when I come out strongly on a subject.

Mark Twain wrote: When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years.

Mark grew up in an era where childhood ended more quickly than it does today in many parts of the world.  Think about Luke as a fourteen year old boy who's had an epiphany and is full of the knowledge that he is right on all things, and has the backing of God.  He thinks he's an adult now, and he's going to go around telling it like it is and expecting everyone else to fall in line.

Life tends to knock you around, and you can learn from it or buckle down and be an asshole.  Luke showed his ass plenty of times on the show.  He thinks he's all grown up and is all that, and he got encouragement from Heather all over the place.  They both love the drama, and are easily influenced by others.  I think that production was playing them both and I hope that they'll eventually realize how much they've been used.

[nittany cougar]

10 hours ago, Refresh said:

If it was me I might even add a few.... like...Remember Garrett? When we naked bungee jumped? Lil Garrett slipped in. Is that what you mean by a slip? Cuz it’s happenink. 

Or something. 😉

I don’t see Hannah as a narcissist. I’ve known a few. She’s Dramatic yes. Self oriented.  But she is the lead of the show so it kind of is about her. 

I agree.  I don't think she is a narcissist, but she has the demeanor of someone who has always been the center of attention and treated like they are special.  She is very focused on herself and never talks about what anyone else wants or needs. 

My guess is that her family catered to her because she was good at pageants and somewhat "famous" in Alabama during her year as Miss Alabama.

Edited July 17, 2019 by nittanycougar

[Trapeze]

17 hours ago, leighdear said:

I think the producers asked her if Tyler was in her final 2, and when she said no, they asked her not to have sex with him so they could more easily sell him as the new Bachelor. 

She agreed and was sworn to secrecy, so they mutually support each other on social media. 

Hey, every compelling show has to have a conspiracy within it! 

Brilliant!  Of course that is why that little sex kitten (tiger) didn't have sex with him.  

[Sweet-tea]

On 7/16/2019 at 11:53 AM, nlkm9 said:

I think she just used Peter for sex, and if the situation was reversed there would be more critisicm. I hate how she led him on, and a shame because hes the nicest and i loved his familay. cant beleieve hannah didnt have more to say to jed about his family and how they greeted her.
 

Why would she use Peter for sex and not Tyler? I don’t get it. 

I don’t see any chemistry between Hannah and Jed. I’m surprised that he is assumed to be her favorite. He doesn’t look that interested in her either. 

Tyler seems like a nice guy, but I don’t think he’d make a good Bachelor. He just doesn’t seem that bright or interesting to me. He speaks in a monotone and doesn’t seem sharp, to say the least. 

Actually, I can’t imagine any of these guys as the next Bachelor. Maybe they can bring in someone new!

I wonder what Hannah’s beauty pageant rival from last season of TB thinks about all of this and if she’s still upset she wasn’t picked. I’ve forgotten her name. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Sweet-tea

[Trapeze]

20 minutes ago, Trapeze said:

17 hours ago, leighdear said:

I think the producers asked her if Tyler was in her final 2, and when she said no, they asked her not to have sex with him so they could more easily sell him as the new Bachelor. 

She agreed and was sworn to secrecy, so they mutually support each other on social media. 

Hey, every compelling show has to have a conspiracy within it! 

@Sweet Tee  This is the answer to your query.  @leighdear nailed it. 

[el diego]

I find these theological debates between individuals hilarious because it is clear that each person has their own view of what is right i.e. what they want, and they just use scripture to confirm their own beliefs. Luke is controlling and wants a faithful woman, so he says that's what Christianity is about. Hannah is narcissistic and horny, so she interprets the Bible to say that's ok. Luke's interpretation is worse because the result is worse, but they both have the same process.

[TheFinalRose]

5 minutes ago, el diego said:

I find these theological debates between individuals hilarious because it is clear that each person has their own view of what is right i.e. what they want, and they just use scripture to confirm their own beliefs. Luke is controlling and wants a faithful woman, so he says that's what Christianity is about. Hannah is narcissistic and horny, so she interprets the Bible to say that's ok. Luke's interpretation is worse because the result is worse, but they both have the same process.

Yeah... veritable "clanging cymbals" both of them, IMO.

If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

They both fail.  

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by TheFinalRose
weird bolding

[nlkm9]

42 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

Why would she use Peter for sex and not Tyler? I don’t get it. 

I don’t see any chemistry between Hannah and Jed. I’m surprised that he is assumed to be her favorite. He doesn’t look that interested in her either. 

Tyler seems like a nice guy, but I don’t think he’d make a good Bachelor. He just doesn’t seem that bright or interesting to me. He speaks in a monotone and doesn’t seem sharp, to say the least. 

Actually, I can’t imagine any of these guys as the next Bachelor. Maybe they can bring in someone new!

I wonder what Hannah’s beauty pageant rival from last season of TB thinks about all of this and if she’s still upset she wasn’t picked. I’ve forgotten her name. 

I know!!!!! Maybe she was afraid that sex with Tyler would blow her mind? damn girl....she has to be regretting this lol. Im regretting it for her

[Starlight925]

I think she feels this Jed connection largely due to a shared background of growing up in the South.  An intangible connection, wherein she is immune to his tone-deaf voice and triangular-shaped head.  Ewww.....shudder.  But yeah, I think he's her first pick.

And given what's come out about Peter this week, he's off my favorites list too.  Bunch of jerks, these guys are.

Luke.....I won't even waste the white space.

Tyler has grown on me each week.  He's probably the most handsome man they've ever had on the franchise, and despite his penchant for wearing too-short, too-tight pants and broadcasting to us his bare ankles, he turns out to be this really sweet guy with a great love for his dad.  He reminds me a bit of Patrick Swayze in Dirty Dancing.  

Edited July 17, 2019 by Sterling

[saber5055]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Just imagine if one of the male leads of this show had said, "I loved making out with hotty-Jane, but I didn't take her to the finals because I thought she was a f-girl."

I loved your entire post @JudyObscure. But the above made me laugh for a reason no one but I will understand. So thank you!

I know a lot of born-again Christians, and every one of them was born again with birth defects.

[Gregg247]

Traditionally, a widow or widower was expected to spend a year in mourning before it was "proper" to start dating again.  What's the correct amount of time for a contestant on The Bachelor or The Bachelorette to be broken up with someone before being allowed to go on the show "for the right reasons"?

These are young, beautiful people who are definitely in the deep end of the dating pool.  It seems weird to me that anyone who has dated someone "recently" can be so castigated (of course, when "recently" means "last week", you have a point!) LOL

If a person is in a serious relationship (considered "serious" by BOTH parties), then I can see why breaking up just before going on this show is suspect.  However, if you're dating around, or seeing someone occasionally, does that count?

Let me just say that I don't know the answer to any of this myself.  It just seems like people are coming out of the woodwork claiming to be a contestant's true love, and we, the public, just assume its true at face value.  Maybe its true, maybe not. 

I hate the idea that the people in my silly little hate-watch reality show are having serious real-life complications because their lives are suddenly put under a microscope.

[Crs97]

You don’t need someone’s permission to pray for them.  You can just pray quietly for them.  I think Luke planned to use that prayer time to say the piece she wouldn’t let him say at dinner.  Unfortunately for him, he usually takes that time to gaslight her - “you misheard; you misunderstood; these aren’t the droids you are looking for.”  She’s realized it and shut him down early because she wouldn’t be able to interrupt the prayer.

Luke May be held to a higher standard, but that’s because he put himself on a pedestal.

I thought Peter broke up with his ex in December and didn’t know he was going on the show till January.  His story seems different from Jed’s story to me.

[hypnotoad]

Quote

I think sleeping with different people back to back (whether you're man or woman) is gross

Well I tend to agree and it certainly would never be my choice in life, it still isn't something I feel anyone needs to be judged about. How someone chooses to lead their life (celibacy or sleeping around or something in between) isn't my business or anyone else's. For Luke to be judging her over possibly sleeping with one of the other guys is ridiculous in my view. They are both on a show where she is basically dating 20 dudes at the same time.

Quote

I'm bothered by the high standards Luke is being held to just because he says he's a Christian. 

I don't have an issue with him because he says he's a Christian. I have an issue with him being hypocritical and judgemental. And also for making me defend Hannah. If he was soooo concerned about the bachelorette perhaps having sex with the other contestants - don't join this show. If this is a deal breaker for him and he has to pray for or pray over someone for this particular topic, then don't join this show. Come on.

These Bachelor and bachelorette shows are ridiculous. The setup is ridiculous and the dialogue about falling in love after a date are two is beyond silly but worse in my view? Is some contestant (whether the man vying for the bachelorette or the woman vying for the bachelor) having an expectation of fidelity of any kind. The Bachelor and bachelorette are setup to date a whole bunch of attractive people all at once. Sorry but I think the odds of making out and/or sex happening are pretty damn high.

Luke judging Hannah for maybe having sexy times with one or two other guys? Just stop.

[nutty1]

1 hour ago, Gregg247 said:

I hate the idea that the people in my silly little hate-watch reality show are having serious real-life complications because their lives are suddenly put under a microscope.

I love listening to podcasts while I work. I listened to Ben and Ashley's and also Juliette Litman's today (Nick V was on). Could you imagine being on a dating reality show, and not only having all of America watch, but then having a slew of people broadcasting about it the next day, picking through each word with a fine toothed comb?? Which of us would ever pass the scrutiny?? Certainly not me. 

[econ07]

18 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

Of course it isn't unreasonable if this were real life. But they are on a 'reality' show where she is dating 20 men. Sorry but expecting fidelity and so forth in such a situation is ridiculous. Personally? After what he said, I would have let that asshat think I slept with every single one of the guys except him. I don't think her incredulity is puzzling at all. It is none of his damn business what she does with any of the other guys. Period. That's the point of this stupid show.

And she owes him? Pffft. Let that stalkerish idiot leave. He seems dangerous, controlling and far too judgemental for anyone in this universe.

Honestly the most I have enjoyed her for most of this season was her finally seeing Luke and getting pretty mad.

I don't think she owes him anything either, and believe, like you, that he should have just walked away if he wasn't happy with her actions.  What I find puzzling is that she as a human being would be shocked that someone who wants to be her husband would be upset if she slept with the other guys on the show within a week of engagement, reality show or not.  You can do anything you want in life, and no one has the right to judge her as less of a person, but men certainly do have the right to determine if her actions hurt their feelings and assess whether her actions are something they want in a life-long partner.

[DEL901]

I know there is an engagement ring at the end of this, but really, all that means is that they have decided to date exclusively and see if the relationship works.... which it generally doesn’t, especially for the Bachelor.   What happens before the final rose stays in the past.