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S08.E06: The Iron Throne


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No Book Talk. AT ALL.

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29 minutes ago, Leroux said:

I went from liking Grey Worm to intensely dislike him. 

Drogon took a long sniff of Jon and apparently recognized him, else Crispy Jon.  Agree that we don't know how they knew to blame Jon for Dany's death.

Speaking of Dany, on second watch, I was listening to her exortations to the troops about killing every man, woman and child......except she changed her intonation when she said in Valeryn (I guess) Child, because her pitch changed and her voice and face became more animated.  Earned a BSC star or two with that presentation.

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So moving my thoughts over from the live thread...

Little Lyanna..the hardest one on the show died for THIS??!! 

Tyrion finding his bother and sister in all this and being upset....when they have plotted against him pretty much his whole life, especially Cersei.  Jaimie may have helped him here and there, but it was always behind Cersei's back, not out in the open 

Grey worm waits for the white man to give Jon and Tyrion justice when he was previously just randomly killing people without honor on the streets...and he does not know these people, trust them or owe them anything? But he all of a sudden thinks they are going to do the right thing? 

Never forgive the writers for not giving Grey worm a body to take back to the beaches of Naath...

So Bran..who can see the past, future, etc, did not see himself getting the throne?  He literally does nothing and gets the greatest reward?  He was NO HELP during the battle planning for all of his "knowledge." 

D& D give us a preview of what their Confederate show would have been like by having Davos offer the freed slaves, " a little piece of nice land," as a thank you for their service...when they literally have not acknowledged previously the sacrifices they made at Winterfell for nothing.....1865...Reconstruction...

Yara Greyjoy is the only person who stands up for Dany after all is said and done?  Other than Greyworm....

Arya sitting there threatening to kill somebody when they are literally sitting there judging somebody for killing people....

I just can't....full disclosure I fast forwarded through a lot of this as it was just trash. I know long time viewers love Peter Dinklage, but I don't get the love! 

Too much stupidity to process.....but all the Stark's got their happy endings...

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Nothing was really solved. The GOT will continue anyway even with the original throne burned. Wish this was not rushed. I hated things mostly because everything happened at warp speed, it could have been more compelling. I'm not completely happy how it ended but relieved it's over. Kudos to the actors for the years invested in their characters. Hope we get the books one day. 

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45 minutes ago, Leroux said:

OMG, the look of pure happiness when Jon hugged Ghost was everything.  

I wouldn’t have minded if Ghost tore his face off. I was that dissatisfied with the ending. And amoral, mercenary Bronn has a seat at the table?

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19 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

So how is Bran, "I am not Brandon Stark anymore, I'm the 3ER" suddenly Brandon (the Broken) Stark again?

He repeatedly told everyone who would listen that he could never be Lord of Winterfell, but he can be King of the Seven...I mean Six Kingdoms?

And if the North is now independent how does the King of the Six Kingdoms have the authority to sentence someone to go to the Wall, in the North?

You are thinking too much. Watching this season requires suspension of your senses...didn't you get the memo? 

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Wow.

1) I wish I was warned at the beginning the show was just about Starks.  Then I might've had a chance to get out of dodge like Drogon.

2) We have been shown so far in this show that the Dothraki are the uber-fighters of the world.  They destroy cities and empires reducing much of Essos into basically vacant grasslands.  They follow their leader and if they are gone whoever among them is the strongest.  What they don't follow is ridiculous committees made up primarily of friends of Jon Snow.  And from this and last episode we see more than plenty of them have survived.  And mere bands of them bring high terror.  And no one seems to worry or care about them.  I think they might want a little bit of say on whether Jon Snow dies.

3) Grey Worm is the best ruler in the history of Westeros bar none.  He rebuilt the entire city of Kings Landing in an instant.  Miraculous!   If that committee was truly interested in a meritocracy HE would be king.  Westeros' loss is Naath's gain.

4) Tyrion is showing once again why he is the worst hand ever.   Bron is now lord of the Reach.  Okay.  I guess if you are that frightened of him.   Bad choice but maybe Tyrion just feared for his personal safety.  But he chose the greediest most corrupt person in the kingdom to be Master of Coin too?  The chances of him not just embezzling every cent he can and leaving the rest of the kingdom to suffer is really really dim.

How is Sam representing House Tarly as one of it's lords and be Grand Maester at the same time?  And for that matter why would you want him as Grand Maester.  The idea is you want the best educated most knowledgeable person in the realm advising the king.  Tarly may be clever at times and like reading books but that is clearly not him.  It is the equivalent of making the winner of Jeopardy the head of the Harvard History Department.  He might know a lot but he still is clearly not qualified.

All and all they seem like a myopic greedy bunch who will be constantly plotting against each other and the crown and cause boatloads of trouble.  Except Davos.  Who was so loyal as a sworn Lord in service of Dragonstone that he forgot Daenarys was in charge there.  Doesn't he still have a wife there?  Maybe he should write.  Nah.  Heard Bron is gonna be building some great brothels!

5) Speaking of trouble I don't see northern independence working out too well.  Sansa and the Iron Islands are not necessarily on good terms and the Iron Islands have never been on good terms with the rest of the North.  And they always go back to raping and reaving because they live on a bunch of rocks with few if any resources.  So it's either that or live a hungry miserable existence.  I see in 40 years large sections of the North being conquered without the seven kingdoms to bail them out.

Oh who am I kidding.  With Tyrion as hand of the king who really expects Bran to survive and the kingdom not to breakup?  Maybe Sansa had the right idea.  She knew Tyrion was an idiot and got a head start in heading for the exits?

6) And the other thing the north and the rest of the world for that matter might face.  The Night King, White Walkers and all that.  The reason why the Wall was built in the first place is the people who last defeated the Night King knew that the threat never went away.  Why should we believe that it went away just because Arya took a Deus ex Machina leap out of nowhere at the Night King?

I'd say rebuilding the wall should be the first priority but I guess from what we saw at the end a little supper glue, a couple of twigs, and a few trillion snowballs healed it all up instantly anyway.

7) Hoping Drogon is taking Dany to be resurrected in Asshai or something and comes back to be the Night Queen and finally gets her revenge.  You know nothing Jon Snow!

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What happened to Gendry?  Wasn't he sent to be a Lord over Baratheon Lands?  Why wouldn't he be important enough to be sitting there at the end?

I love Brienne, but on what authority was she there with her own vote?

I think Tyrion's speach to Jon was necessary to explain what went wrong with Dany, but even further weakened Jon.  Did he seriously have to be told at that point that she had to die? 

There is almost no one I care less about than Bran Stark.  It's partly story line and partly acting, but I just seriously could not care less about that character, so that felt very unsatisfying. 

And frankly, I felt nothing for most of the night.  I'm not sure what went wrong with this episode (maybe the actors hated it too and phoned it in) but I just didn't FEEL anything.  For nine years I've been tense, stressed, touched, sad, happy and a multitude of other things after every episode because the writing, the acting and the production of it all has been largely superb.  Why do I feel nothing?  The whole episode was "Meh."

I've heard they filmed more than one ending to keep it all a secret.  Show me one of the other ones.  Maybe I'll like it better.

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15 minutes ago, AuxArx said:

I thought it was a pretty satisfying ending; not exciting, but satisfying.

Poor Drogon and his mother...I wonder where he took her?

Ghost got his boy back!

Seeing dead Jaime and Cersei was kind of sad, even if they were a couple of twisted individuals.

I was afraid Grey Worm was going to do something to Jon there at the ships, but he just glared.

Almost everyone got an okay ending except maybe for Jon, but I don't think he ever would have been happy as a ruler.

Arguing about the merits of brothels, yay or nay, was kind of funny.

And Tormund needed to go back and comfort Brienne!  Come on, big guy.

It's kind of like the ending to Lost--there are parts you like, and parts you just don't quite understand.  But that's okay.  I will miss the show, though.

He took her to a spinoff! Only there's no human characters, it's 8 seasons of adventures of Drogon!

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I think I liked it.

Tyrion’s ending didn’t feel right to me.  Didn’t feel earned like everyone else’s. And there was just too much of him in the finale. Some of his time could’ve been given to the stark girls.

I didn’t love Jon’s ending at first. But other posters reminded me Bran is king and Sansa rules the North so he’ll be pardoned in a few years

Sansa’s crowning was so satisfying.

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28 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Ummmm....Explorer and Pirate Queen. 

Jon is the King Beyond the Wall. Sansa is the Queen in the North. Bran is the King of the Seven Six Kingdoms.

I like that, the King beyond the Wall, his sister Sansa is his neighbor being the QITN so they can have regular meetings and trades, learn to cohabitate, the North and the Free Folk. 

His brother is the King of the six kingdoms and that also works to the advantage of the Wildings. Jon gets to be King in all but name. I like that. The Wildings are upfront and not so much into politics and double talking so this suits Jon's style perfectly. 

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I really loved the finale. It left us on a hopeful note and there was a real chance the wheel was broken when you have that group of people making decisions.

Things I loved:

1. Sansa as Queen of the North. She was one of the only leaders who consistently put her people first. She was a fierce defender of the North and it was only fitting she earn the North their freedom and be named Queen.

2. They didn't have Sansa try to be Queen of the Seven Realms. It showed her character growth from the foolish little girl to went to KL to marry Joffrey. 

3. That council. It was my who's who of favorite characters. 

4. Jon joining the wildlings north of the wall where he was always supposed to be.

5. The Jon and Ghost reunion.

6. Dragon destroying the Iron Throne and understanding why Jon did what he did. 

7. The better explanation of why Dany did what she did last week.

Things I hated:

1. Arya leaving on her own. I thought she had grown enough to realize how important her family was and would have stayed with one of her siblings.

2. Having another man on the throne.

3. Wanting a better end to Jaime's character. Why have him get together with Brienne if it ends like that. Brienne still could have written in the book for Jaime if they ended as friends only.

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3 minutes ago, Beachdreamer said:

What happened to Gendry?  Wasn't he sent to be a Lord over Baratheon Lands?  Why wouldn't he be important enough to be sitting there at the end?

I thought he was there. Did I imagine him?

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Drogon nudging Dany was sad.  My Great Dane does that when she wants my attention.

I call complete BS on Drogon not killing Jon.  If he didn't kill him when he destroyed the Iron Throne, then there should have been a final scene of Drogon chasing Jon down and lighting him up.

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34 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

Although not a full democracy, they are heading that way.  More of a Parliamentary style government with the Lords/Ladies choosing the King/Queen which I would imagine would eventually include more and more people in the decision making process.

I have to respectfully disagree.  They aren't remotely headed toward a democracy.  They've always had a small council.  And since Bran will probably be mostly hands-off, it's really an oligarchy.

And that's Newton's Fourth Law;  "An oligarchy stays an oligarchy unless acted upon by an outside force storming the Bastille."

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32 minutes ago, Francie said:
34 minutes ago, Kanner said:

I have to say it Robin grew up very nicely. 

Seriously!

I wonder if Sansa might be rethinking Lysa’s offer of a marriage. “Yo, you don’t seem so sickly, anymore.”

His aim as an archer was so terrible, I would question his accuracy elsewhere. 

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15 minutes ago, zibnchy said:

Why is Brienne on the Small Counc il? Isn't she oathbound to Sansa? She could be Sansa's hand.  Sansa may need her for protection. Also why was she voting for the new king? Is she Lord of something now? (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Brienne, but I don't love her on the small council.)

I suspect they've absolved Brienne of her duty to protect the Stark women. Brienne was in the Small Council room because she is now head of the King's Guard, which means she can't marry or inherit her title and lands, as was Jamie (a thing Cersei convinced him to do so she cohld keep fucking him and why Tywin was eternally furious with the twins). I suspect Brienne was fine with that. I suspect Brienne voted for the new king because she was the Lady of the Sapphire Isle and banner to House Baratheon.

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25 minutes ago, MissL said:

I actually said out loud when Tyrion was making his speech for Bran to be king “well this is stupid”. Who has a better story than Bran? How about half the people sitting in those chairs?

Good point. Bran's Random Adventure Beyond the Wall was always one of my least favourite stories.

21 minutes ago, laprin said:

Wait, so the guy who has been “Not Bran” for two seasons because he is the Three-Eyed Raven is suddenly cool with being Bran Stark? How do they know that they can trust him?  Seems to me, the Three-Eyed Raven has been plotting the whole time to rule the kingdom.

At least the final season solved one mystery for us: why won't Bran tell anyone the future?

8 minutes ago, LongDistanceClara said:

Am I the only one who is annoyed they never came across Ellaria Sands?

I'm not annoyed exactly, but I did notice last season that she was still going to be alive when someone attacked the Red Keep and I thought maybe she'd get out of the dungeon and do something. I guess we're supposed to believe she just died when everything collapsed, in which case there would have been no reason to check in with her, but I did think it would have been cool.

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33 minutes ago, screamin said:

Bran commissioned her to discover America, I suppose. Though he could just take a long look and tell her what's there if he felt like it.

Well, with her fighting skills, and her ability to use faces, she probably just became the Dread Pirate Roberts.

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33 minutes ago, screamin said:

Bran commissioned her to discover America, I suppose. Though he could just take a long look and tell her what's there if he felt like it.

It's called Americos. And the reason that Bran made Tyrion his hand was to keep him from tagging along with her. Because dwarfs carry small pox.

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1 minute ago, TigerLynx said:

Drogon nudging Dany was sad.  My Great Dane does that when she wants my attention.

I call complete BS on Drogon not killing Jon.  If he didn't kill him when he destroyed the Iron Throne, then there should have been a final scene of Drogon chasing Jon down and lighting him up.

I think the idea was that Jon is a Targaryen and so dragons are innately cool with him. And Drogon torching the IT felt like some sort of indictment of ambition, maybe even Dany’s. But of course we have no idea how smart dragons are supposed to be.

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6 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

but all the Stark's got their happy endings..

Which would have been wonderful, if seasons 3-7 could have actually concentrated on the Starks, instead of Cersei and Tyrion. But because the Starks were all teenagers or young adults, their portrayers didn't have the advanced acting chops needed to carry a show.

Also, if Sansa wasn't such a selfish cunt.

*sigh*

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6 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Little Lyanna..the hardest one on the show died for THIS???

Seriously though, do we really think Lyanna would just sit back while Tyrion insisted Bran be named king? Because he knows thing about the past? With really nothing else going for him as a candidate?

I think not!

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(edited)
18 hours ago, kieyra said:

I think the idea was that Jon is a Targaryen and so dragons are innately cool with him. And Drogon torching the IT felt like some sort of indictment of ambition, maybe even Dany’s. But of course we have no idea how smart dragons are supposed to be.

I thought he was saying "if my girl isn't going to sit there, no one will." 

Edited by Helena Dax
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(edited)

Not as bad as I feared. The character beats got the time to play out, unlike most of the season. For me, Daenerys was an alternate version of the character who took over last episode, someone I don't recognize. Other than that, it was fine. I love Arya going west of Westeros. I love that Davos and Brienne and Podrick survived. Am not keen on Bran as king — it's really Tyrion who will be ruling, since Bran apparently has such a short attention span he won't even attend a meeting of his own small council.

Why weren't they discussing cleaning up the city? Tending to the wounded? Why are ships more important?

Sansa being queen is OK, but really weird considering her bro is the king of the other six kingdoms.

While the idea of a kingsmoot to choose future leaders is cool, I can't see it lasting with the rest of the feudal system remaining unchanged. Not when one of them has a son who thinks he should be the next king.

Were the Dothraki going back to the Great Grass Sea? And were the Unsullied going to remain an army for the king, other than Greyworm's boatload?

Why did we care that Jon was R + L = J? It came to nothing. (Same can be said for Dany birthing dragons and withstanding fire.. and the whole Prince who was Promised stuff Melisandre kept going on about.)

Ghost gets all the luv....thank goodness!

ETA: I forgot about Bronn. HATE that he got rewarded. How could anyone trust a pure mercenary?

Edited by Andromeda
Bronn
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37 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

I liked it. The goodbye scene with the Stark children made me verklempt. I am sad Dany went the way she did though. 

How many times have people in the North yammered and proclaimed so and so King/Queen of the North? Don’t get too comfy in the big chair Sansa. 

Ser Pod FTW!!!

Anyone else think Brienne was gonna write, “Survived by his son/daughter”? No? Just me? 

Definitely thought that (Brienne)

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King Bran! Long may he reign!

I actually kinda liked it?

The finale wasn't anything special, but it tied a neat little bow on the series. Maybe too neat, but it was still an easy watch.

48 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I’m so confused why Aegon Targaryen is not the king of the seven kingdoms but honestly this ep was almost worth it for the shot of Danerys walking towards the stairs and Drogon’s wings unfolding behind her.

It was a gorgeous scene. Breathtaking.

35 minutes ago, AttackTurtle said:

I was happy that Tyrion survived and it was pretty heartbreaking when he found Jaime.

I swear Peter Dinklage fucking broke me.

I was stoic while he walked passed the mountain of corpses, but when Tyrion started sobbing over his siblings bodies that stung.

32 minutes ago, Kanner said:

I have to say it Robin grew up very nicely. 

7 minutes ago, Popples said:

I still can't get over Robin Arryn's transformation.

Milk does a body good.

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3 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Drogon nudging Dany was sad.  My Great Dane does that when she wants my attention.

I call complete BS on Drogon not killing Jon.  If he didn't kill him when he destroyed the Iron Throne, then there should have been a final scene of Drogon chasing Jon down and lighting him up.

Right, Drogon is apparently capable of abstract thought that seeking that stupid chair killed his Mommy, but not the concrete thought that the man who plunged a dagger into his Mommy's heart was standing in front of him.

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5 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:
8 minutes ago, Beachdreamer said:

What happened to Gendry?  Wasn't he sent to be a Lord over Baratheon Lands?  Why wouldn't he be important enough to be sitting there at the end?

 I thought he was there. Did I imagine him?

Gendry was definitely there. I think he was sitting next to Robyn.

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9 minutes ago, coops said:

So they sentence Tyrion to death who points out it's not for them to decide what happens to him, its' for the new king or queen to decide and then they let him decide who will be the new king or queen??? So basically he's pretty much deciding for himself what will happen to him.

Aaaaaaaand the new king doesn't sentence Tyrion to die but instead asks him to become his hand. AND EVERYONE GOES ALONG WITH THIS? 

Other than Yara and grey worm no one else wanted him dead... I assume that's why he was still alive because the northern were there and the other armies would show up if they killed Jon and tyrion without some kind of trial

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Drogon is obviously the true hero in all of this. He was the only one who really understood that you have to break the wheel, and actually go through with it. 

I have a lot of thoughts and feels about all of this, mostly along the lines of "...really?", but my dislike of this season does not take away what this show was for me. Its been a part of my life for so many years, and was with me through college and grad school and getting my first (and second) "grown up" jobs, it inspired me to read the books and got me into tons of new literature that I would have never picked up before, it provided me endless conversations with friends and strangers, inspired my own writings, introduced me to some amazing actors who I will continue to follow to their next projects, my room have tons of GOT merch, I have gone to viewing parties and trivia nights, drank GOT themed wine and ale, and for better or worse, its always given me something to think about, debate, and chew on. It showed that genre television could be a major hit, and inspired countless other fantasy and science fiction shows (to varying degrees of success) to strive for greatness, and showed the mainstream audience that these are not just "nerd" stories, but stories for everyone, and showed that a show with dragons and knights could also be a compelling story about the human condition and society.  So before I start to really digest what I thought about this episode, season, and series at large, I just want to sit back and be sad, and until we FINALLY get that next book, I will miss these characters and this world, and I have so many memories with this show, that I just want to mourn for a second, and bask in how much I have loved this show, and what all it has meant to me. 

Except what happened with Jaimie and his ending. I already know how feel about that: Fuck that noise. 

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5 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Drogon nudging Dany was sad.  My Great Dane does that when she wants my attention.

I call complete BS on Drogon not killing Jon. 

He was nudging her to roll her over (so he could pick her up)- he wasn't trying to wake her up. 

Drogon wouldn't kill Jon- because Daenerys loved him.  He mourned Ser Jorah for the same reason.

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5 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I thought he was there. Did I imagine him?

Gendry was there. Remember he's only been the head of his house for a month or two. Brienne is born nobility. Ser Davos has been politicking for a couple of years. Gendry needs that guidance from his banners.

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52 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Fuck Bronn. 

Yes.

34 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Looked a whole lot like Cersei's wardrobe. 

Cersei was Sansa's role model.  

32 minutes ago, Francie said:

Seriously!

I wonder if Sansa might be rethinking Lysa’s offer of a marriage. “Yo, you don’t seem so sickly, anymore.”

Sansa will never marry.  She doesn't want to submit to anyone. She'll die with that same sour expression on her face.

31 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

1.  How many times have people in the North yammered and proclaimed so and so King/Queen of the North? Don’t get too comfy in the big chair Sansa. 

2.  Anyone else think Brienne was gonna write, “Survived by his son/daughter”? No? Just me? 

1.  True story.

2.  Maybe just you.  It doesn't cross my mind that whenever a woman has sex she'll get pregnant.  

26 minutes ago, MissL said:

I just find it hard to believe Tyrion and Jon were even still alive. That Gray Worm didn’t kill them immediately in anger/grief is shocking.  Why is Gray Worm going to listen to a king that isn’t his and is elected by Lords and ladies he doesn’t care about? Is it just because he’s followed orders all his life?

Also apparently if Tyrion cries I cry. Last episode with Jaime and this one when he finds Jaime and  Cersei dead. Rip my heart out Peter Dinklage.

Actually, Grey Worm no longer had a dog in the hunt.  Daenerys was dead, Drogon wouldn't obey anyone else so couldn't be counted on and other than revenge, why would he care about what happened in Westeros?  It wasn't his home.  He was "a foreigner" and none of them had exactly rolled out the welcome wagon for the Unsullied or the Dothraki. But other than that, I have no clue why Grey Worm didn't try to kill Tyrion or Jon.  But good thing he didn't kill Jon.  I'd have to hunt him down and hurt him myself.  Tyrion is the last Lannister standing.  Another defunct family after all that scheming, murdering and power grabbing.  I wonder if he cared that Cersei was dead.

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