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S09.E04: Love and Loss

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2 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

@JoanArc, I recall reading about that! 

If anyone cares...

Quote

Research over the years has established several facts. First, homosexual men do tend to have a higher birth order than heterosexual men, and this higher birth order is attributed to homosexual men having greater number of older brothers.[9] According to several studies, each older brother increases a male child's naturally occurring odds of having a homosexual orientation by 28–48%.[8][10][11][12][13][note 1] However, the numbers of older sisters, younger brothers, and younger sisters have no effect on those odds.[9] It has been estimated that approximately one in seven homosexual males owe their sexual orientation to the fraternal birth order effect.[16] There seems to be no effect of birth order on sexual orientation in women.[17][18]

So keep churning them out, Duggars. THE SIN IS IN THE CAMP.

 I hope Blessa is sweatin' bullets (even if she can't do the correlation math).

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No gluten and no sugar kinda pushes a cake competition into torte territory, and no way does any Duggar have any experience with those. 

Did Jessa’s cake have a plastic sign that said “lover” on it?

Anyone else catch Jackson’s “Aunt Michelle” remark?

On 3/6/2019 at 2:23 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm really funny about food prep, cooking, handling food, etc.  so, I can't even go there with them.  There are a couple that I might trust with hygiene, but, not most of them. You would be surprised at the number of people who don't understand the concept of contamination.  

I consider Kendra’s cake 🍰 the winner🥇, largely because I think everyone else’s cakes would give me worms. 

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1 hour ago, 3 is enough said:

For me, the issue with Jackson that concerns me is not so much his size- he may just be slower to reach puberty, and as cereality pointed out, he may not be getting enough nutritients to start that growth spurt.  I also have to wonder if the youngest kids are more prone to having issues because Michelle’s body was exhausted and there was a possibility of development issues as a result. I wonder if there is any research on how birth order affects children of mothers who have excessive numbers of pregnancies ?

 But he IS extremely immature for his age.  It could be due to being constantly with the younger girls. I thought JB separated the boys and girls when they hit 12-13?  Not Jackson. Why? 

I still think he is just lost in the crowd to some extent.

Paging dr @doodlebug . Expert opinion needed. 

Isn't malnutrition almost unheard of in America? The junk food is fortified with vitamins and minerals.

Jackson’s long limbs suggests he’s growing, and his shoulders are widening, so something is happening. In contrast, Tyler looks like a pot bellied little kid. 

w0hkls.jpg

Edited by kokapetl
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46 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

Paging dr @doodlebug . Expert opinion needed. 

Isn't malnutrition almost unheard of in America? The junk food is fortified with vitamins and minerals.

Jackson’s long limbs suggests he’s growing, and his shoulders are widening, so something is happening. In contrast, Tyler looks like a pot bellied little kid. 

w0hkls.jpg

Well, I'm not doodlebug, but I'll make an interim remark. The kind of thing discussed in this article could easily be a problem in a household like the TTH, at least to some degree, I think: 

"While trying to eradicate malnutrition is noble, we must strategically work with health disparities in mind. Overfeeding calorically-dense, but low nutrient meals exasperates the dual burden of malnutrition and ultimately increases obesity rates and health disparities in low-income populations. Food has the capability to turn disparities towards health. Whole grains, fruits and vegetables supply more fiber than refined grains and are protective against heart disease Protein options such as nuts, beans and legumes are protective against cardiovascular disease and diabetes, both of which are health disparities among the LSES population 

Feeding children nutrient-dense foods can be challenging, given that they need to be introduced to a food up to 17 times before accepting it. However, federal policies such as the Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program have exposed more children to nutrient-dense foods and therefore these foods are accepted earlier

Calorically dense but low nutrient? -- check for the Duggars. And of course that's bad. 

Everything else that surely helps prevent malnutrition -- fruits and vegetables? legumes? even significant amounts of whole grains? -- all seem to be largely a NO for the Duggars. There's no "Duggar Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Program' that anybody's noticed. 

And taking the time to introduce a young child to a vegetable or a legume up to 17 times to get the kid to accept it? When would that ever happen to a child of Meeechelle's? 

So while there obviously isn't the huge risk that the poor face, I'd say that eating in the TTH mob probably does have its dangers -- maybe not for every kid, but probably for some. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6214863/

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4 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

Anyone else catch Jackson’s “Aunt Michelle” remark?

That's the other thing I wondered about. I think it was because Tyler was in the room, since Michelle is his great aunt, but why would Jackson say that like he was Tyler's relative from an older generation? I mean, JB and Michelle have referred to each other as "mom" and "dad" in front of their kids, and have referred to Mary as "grandma" instead of JB calling her "mom," but that's not unusual when referring to those relatives in front of very young kids.

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1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I think Lauren is an exhausting, high-maintenance individual in general. It's like when she announced to everyone that she was gluten-free at her wedding reception. Was that even necessary? I think she's the type who lives for Special Snowflake status whether it's through pregnancy, diet or being the "Chosen One" to make Josiah's gay go away. Maybe I should be more considerate of her age, but that's just the vibe I get. 

Nah. Otherwise Kendra and Joy would be way more high-maintenance than they are. 

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21 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Nah. Otherwise Kendra and Joy would be way more high-maintenance than they are. 

speaking of which - did they say why Joy wasn't a team-leader in this cookoff ?

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No mention of Joy at all. But I think that she was still living in Smuggar's RV at the time. God forbid TLC showing their domiciles as less than perfect (even Jessa cleans on filming days).

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3 hours ago, kokapetl said:

sn't malnutrition almost unheard of in America?

No. Obesity is a form of malnutrition, too.

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2 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

That's the other thing I wondered about. I think it was because Tyler was in the room, since Michelle is his great aunt, but why would Jackson say that like he was Tyler's relative from an older generation? I mean, JB and Michelle have referred to each other as "mom" and "dad" in front of their kids, and have referred to Mary as "grandma" instead of JB calling her "mom," but that's not unusual when referring to those relatives in front of very young kids.

And why would he say that so someone older than a toddler? Tyler's too old to be confused by a J-kid referring to Michelle as mom instead of aunt Michelle. 

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I finally watched the show and I was so happy to see Jenni and Kendra together.  Jenni needs that time and I think Kendra is a good person. I hope Jenni spends time with Kendra & Joe when the cameras are off - and not as a babysitter.  Lauren .... I want to feel sorry for her, but she just seems too much like she is acting. 

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2 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

I finally watched the show and I was so happy to see Jenni and Kendra together.  Jenni needs that time and I think Kendra is a good person. I hope Jenni spends time with Kendra & Joe when the cameras are off - and not as a babysitter.  

I hope so too. Kendra is such a positive person and Jenni is one of those kids you can hang out with and they don't get annoying (cough, cough...looking at you, Josie and Jackson). It would be nice if she could get some undivided attention for once.

Edited by BitterApple
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5 hours ago, NotthebadVictoria said:

Jana, I love Jana, and I am sad for her being the family slave and her only escape is to be her husbands slave 

I had a showerthought about Janna today. Do you think she's fulfilling an unspoken rule in the family that the eldest female is expected to remain in the family home forever so that she can tend to her siblings and then later be the "helpmeet" to her parents?  Kind of like in days gone by when the eldest son went into the priesthood? In Duggarworld, the eldest daughter remains ever virginal and commits to a life of servitude.  No wonder that girl is so damned competent compared to the rest of her family--she's decided to make the best of a bad situation and has taught herself actual skills.

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18 minutes ago, Horrified said:

I had a showerthought about Janna today. Do you think she's fulfilling an unspoken rule in the family that the eldest female is expected to remain in the family home forever so that she can tend to her siblings and then later be the "helpmeet" to her parents?  Kind of like in days gone by when the eldest son went into the priesthood? In Duggarworld, the eldest daughter remains ever virginal and commits to a life of servitude.  No wonder that girl is so damned competent compared to the rest of her family--she's decided to make the best of a bad situation and has taught herself actual skills.

You are likely right, I didn’t even think of that!

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16 minutes ago, Horrified said:

I had a showerthought about Janna today. Do you think she's fulfilling an unspoken rule in the family that the eldest female is expected to remain in the family home forever so that she can tend to her siblings and then later be the "helpmeet" to her parents?  Kind of like in days gone by when the eldest son went into the priesthood? In Duggarworld, the eldest daughter remains ever virginal and commits to a life of servitude.  No wonder that girl is so damned competent compared to the rest of her family--she's decided to make the best of a bad situation and has taught herself actual skills.

I’ve speculated that she’s a fundy version of a nun, which sounds like what you’ve described. But, yeah, she’s just serving her family, instead of the poor and needy.

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I like Kendra, too.

I agree this was a hugely boring episode.

About malnutrition, I read an article last year that there are people in America today who have Scurvy.  Yes, believe it or not.  They profiled a guy in his twenties who ate nothing but burgers plus one or two other things and he was diagnosed with Scurvy.  You would think someone in their twenties would at least have the sense to take a daily multivitamin.

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I had a friend in college who decided to live like some medieval peasant on a handful of different foods to save money and ended up giving himself some health problems in the process. I think he's okay now, but he should have known better. (And he wasn't ordinarily an idiot, but I guess even smart people do really dumb things.)

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15 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Sorry, not giving them any kind of pass on not knowing basic cooking. My mother hated cooking and it showed. The only thing I remember her teaching me how to cook was fried chicken...which I have never made.

But I LEARNED. It’s all out there and was even before the internet and now it’s only a click away. Read something for chrissake.

Jessa spent plenty of time online learning the duck-lip I’m-so-hot selfie pose...she can Youtube how to bake a cake, FFS.

I completely agree. When I got married (very young) I didn’t know how to make much more than cookies and pudding. But I made my wedding gift “Better Homes and Garden” cookbook  my kitchen bible, and could cook almost any basic recipe by our first anniversary. The Duggar girls have it so easy...so many more resources available to them on the internet, especially watching others cook on YouTube, as @Oldernowiser said. They just have no excuse for being such unaccomplished homemakers.

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3 hours ago, Love2dance said:

I completely agree. When I got married (very young) I didn’t know how to make much more than cookies and pudding. But I made my wedding gift “Better Homes and Garden” cookbook  my kitchen bible, and could cook almost any basic recipe by our first anniversary. The Duggar girls have it so easy...so many more resources available to them on the internet, especially watching others cook on YouTube, as @Oldernowiser said. They just have no excuse for being such unaccomplished homemakers.

Same here -  I wasn't even particularly young when I got married (at 25), but was still living at home. I had gone to college, but moved back in afterwards, and somehow never got around to getting my own place until after I married (which I really regret in retrospect - there was a lot I never learned). I basically knew how to make grilled cheese sandwiches and scrambled eggs, though I'm sure I could have managed a couple of other things if I'd had to. But I got the Betty Crocker cookbook as a wedding gift as well, and between that and the Julia Child reruns I got hooked on, I found that I really loved to cook. My mother was a decent, though very basic cook, but never really enjoyed it, so I guess I grew up never thinking of it as anything but a chore which I had no particular interest in learning to do.

Of course, 34 years later I still haven't figured out anything which makes cleaning more exciting. That is an inspiration I could use....

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14 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

Lauren .... I want to feel sorry for her, but she just seems too much like she is acting. 

The acting genes seem to run in the Swanson  family.  Did you notice her sister?  I think her name is Lily & she's the one who questioned what was written on Lauren's shirt.  She seemed to be very aware of the cameras & tried to act & talk naturally but it wasn't working.**  I could be wrong but I think I noticed her hanging around some of the Duggarbots too.  She would love to be a Duggar & be in the limelight & on TV. 

** I'm sure for some it takes a while to get used to being on TV but Lily's appeared enough I would think it's not a big deal & should come naturally. She's over trying.

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On 3/5/2019 at 1:20 PM, sATL said:

I have a basic gluten question..does it cause other issues besides intestinal? Like cholesterol,  blood pressure,  asmatic, weight  gain, diabetes , hair/skin issues? I guess i.m asking why is it better NOT  to eat gluten?

My Grandchildren (age 7 and 5) both have Celiac disease and cannot have gluten.  It causes different symptoms to different people.  One basic similarity is it an autoimmune disease which causes the internal organs to not receive nourishment.  Before he was diagnosed, my Grandson was badly malnourished and was so weak he had to be carried up and down the stairs.  He had no energy.  His little eyes were sunken into his skull. 

I'm grateful that Gluten Free alternatives are readily available now, even in restaurants.   

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1 minute ago, Marshmallow Mollie said:

How can they look at their seven month baby, know that their mother would have abandoned that baby to another *child* and still be starry-eyed over their childhood and try to emulate it.

This. Times a zillion.

The Duggar children are pretty much screwed. The only way to keep TLC around is to keep churning out the babies. But with every new child, they’re even less able to support themselves any other way, let alone to the style they now believe they deserve. 

JerJer, Bin and Derrick are essentially unemployed. Their “helpmeets” aren’t supposed to work and are stunningly unskilled anyway. Maybe the less visible Duggar kids have a better chance at real employment but raising monster families these days is insanely expensive.

Nice work, JB. Your kids are trapped in the prison you made for them.

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9 minutes ago, Marshmallow Mollie said:

What acclerated my growth was having kids. I don’t want my kids to grow up in chaos and neglect like I did. As a result, that’s where my patience is wearing thin with the adult Duggars. How can they look at their seven month baby, know that their mother would have abandoned that baby to another *child* and still be starry-eyed over their childhood and try to emulate it.

The dynamic between the Duggar kids and Michelle reminds me of my maternal family. My late Grandmother was a malignant narcissist and I remember how my mother and her siblings would run around like chickens with their heads cut off to please and appease her, hoping for approval. Narcissists are only happy when you're showering them with compliments and kissing their ass. The Duggar kids are so starved for love and attention they're willing to say and do anything to get it, whether it's giving their parents an undeserved room reno or writing odes to their mother on Instagram. The sad thing is, they're so sheltered and emotionally stunted I don't know if they're even aware as to how badly they're being manipulated. 

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4 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

The dynamic between the Duggar kids and Michelle reminds me of my maternal family. My late Grandmother was a malignant narcissist and I remember how my mother and her siblings would run around like chickens with their heads cut off to please and appease her, hoping for approval. Narcissists are only happy when you're showering them with compliments and kissing their ass. The Duggar kids are so starved for love and attention they're willing to say and do anything to get it, whether it's giving their parents an undeserved room reno or writing odes to their mother on Instagram. The sad thing is, they're so sheltered and emotionally stunted I don't know if they're even aware as to how badly they're being manipulated. 

In my family, our head malignant narcissist wasn't even happy then. But the fact that the appeasement route was literally always a dismal failure didn't stop anybody in my family from trying it. Constantly. Over and over again. Apparently throwing red meat to a roaring lion is hard-wired into most of us from babyhood. Unfortunately, it only works for lions, not narcissistic humans.

And I guarantee that the Duggars aren't aware of how badly they're being manipulated.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet big that some of them -- perhaps many -- aren't even aware they're being manipulated at all. And would angrily denounce you if you told them it was true. 

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20 hours ago, lascuba said:

And why would he say that so someone older than a toddler? Tyler's too old to be confused by a J-kid referring to Michelle as mom instead of aunt Michelle. 

It's very probable that Jackson thinks Mullet is his (Jackson's ) aunt. He probably sees her occasionally.

Is Lauren's tongue too long for her mouth? Just asking. She's annoying AF.

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On 3/6/2019 at 12:02 PM, BitterApple said:

I agree. Trust me, I'm not a snob, but when the camera showed the facade of the Mold House, I couldn't help but notice all the scraggly, overgrown shrubs and the peeling paint on the front door. Seriously, what the fuck do these people do all day? Bin can't take an hour in the morning and do some yardwork? It's like they take absolutely no pride in anything. Not their homes, their appearance, their domestic skills, nothing. I just can't imagine slogging through life in such mediocrity. 

On 3/6/2019 at 12:07 PM, libgirl2 said:

Read the Bible all day? 

And have sex every night..after evening prayers

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On 3/5/2019 at 9:37 AM, LongDenimFrumper said:

Joe and Kendra have a pretty nice house set up compared to the rest. Who paid for Joe's house? I can't remember where he's working.( I know that cabin used to belong to Grandma Duggar.) Their kitchen and house is noticeably nicer than the rest. I always find the variations of wealth/ luxuries between the married Duggar kids interesting. There's no way some aren't jealous of the others. 

Not sure why they would be too jealous.  Joe and his brothers remodeled the house so it wasn't entirely handed to him and Kendra.  I really think if Jessa wanted a nicer house that she would have it already.  Joy has the ability to have a nice remodeled house. 

On 3/5/2019 at 5:15 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Does anyone know why Jinger gave up coffee? She said it wasn't about the baby, but, for her health.  I've read that coffee in moderation is actually pretty good for your health. 

I don't know why she gave up coffee but when I was younger my dad had to give up coffee because of some health reason too. 

On 3/5/2019 at 7:11 PM, sATL said:

I noticed that Josiah didn't seem overly broken up like Lauren was..I know everyone handles grief/loss differently but he was extra-at-peace to me. Trying not to say  relieved... 

I don't think that kid has any actual real emotions. Except the emotion of pure joy from messing up someone's car on their wedding day. 

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Jessa's house got a remodel as well. She and Bin don't take care of the place, which is why it looks like a dump in comparison to her siblings' homes.

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For those who say Josiah wasn't too torn up about it, i think that is a combination of the following things

1- he barely had time to even process the pregnancy ( he only knew about it for what, 2 days?)

2- He probably was/is MASSIVELY relieved, and likely feels guilty about that

3- I don't think him and Lauren really get along that well and maybe he is tired of her being so upset about it ( if she's been upset for months). I am not saying it is right, but maybe that is how he is feeling. Harder to have prolonged compassion for someone you can barely tolerate.

4- He might not have really been that upset. My husband wasn't as upset as I was , and not to any fault of his own ( he was still empathetic and compassionate and was more upset that I was upset, if you know what I mean). I think that can be normal. Especially if its the first pregnancy. The pregnant women has all the hormones and what not to deal with too, and if its early pregnancy usually the non pregnant partner hasn't connected at the same level.

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How does this show manage to not get cancelled? Are the rating that good? After watching this last boring episode I can't imagine they are. I'm  also burned out on the weddings and the pregnancies.

Courtship. Wedding prep, wedding day, pregnancy, births. Over and over and over again. 

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They're managing to get around a million viewers every week, give or take. Unfortunately, that's sufficient for the advertisers.

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Finally forced myself to finish the episode and what a shit fest that was. It was all fake, we all know John and Abbie would have ordered a cake if they really wanted one. I don't mind producer driven crap but would it bother them to try? Lauren just dumped broken eggs in the cake and it annoyed me to see Kendra dump perfectly good food in the trash. I would be embarrassed if I was them since they preach so much about being good helpmeets.

Edited by Lunera
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There have been more than a few times when the show has emphasized some negative things about the Duggars. Usually it's a subtle filming edit. One that was brief, however very obvious was when Jill was courting Derick. I don't remember the full context - maybe Michelle complemented Cathy on what good sons she raised. Cathy said, "Well, I used the same book you did". The camera quickly pans to Michelle who has an expression of almost fear. My interpretation was Michelle was thinking Cathy meant the Pearl's book. Cathy was talking about the Bible.

So if this episode was producer driven, the producers knew full well what they were highlighting. They probably had bets on who would look the worst.

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On 3/5/2019 at 5:35 PM, Pingaponga said:

But Lauren's reaction to the miscarriage just reinforced to me how young Lauren actually is. Yes, the miscarriage of a wanted child is devastating. But her reference to "losing her only child" just seemed...over-the-top? She is SO young. Odds are she hasn't been told she can't have more children. I know many, many people who have miscarried at various stages of pregnancy - including a friend whose first child died in utero at 30 weeks - and I'm pretty sure none of them would have referred to the loss as "losing their only child". Unless they knew they were unable to have more children. Which was not the case for any of them.

I know!! 

I think women should announce their pregnancies when they want. A miscarriage is nothing to be ashamed of, and if more women felt comfortable talking about it there wouldn’t be so much shame and misinformation even in 2019. 

That being said, I can understand Lauren being upset right afterwards, with the hormanal changes and the emotional crash after being so excited to be pregnant. 

HOWEVER- this girl is just too damn extra. extra She isn’t 50yrs old and her only child just died in a tragic accident or after an unexpected illness. 

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On 3/6/2019 at 7:31 PM, Horrified said:

I had a showerthought about Janna today. Do you think she's fulfilling an unspoken rule in the family that the eldest female is expected to remain in the family home forever so that she can tend to her siblings and then later be the "helpmeet" to her parents?  Kind of like in days gone by when the eldest son went into the priesthood? In Duggarworld, the eldest daughter remains ever virginal and commits to a life of servitude.  No wonder that girl is so damned competent compared to the rest of her family--she's decided to make the best of a bad situation and has taught herself actual skills.

Well yes, often times a century or two ago 1-2 children would remain at home caring for the elderly parents. (If you were fortunate enough to have many children live to adulthood). Hell not even that long ago- my great Aunt who was born in 1914 did this, her parents died relatively young though, she never married nor left the family home. 

The male child would be responsible for the economic upkeep of the household and the female child would tend to the domestic and caregiving duties. If they did marry their spouse knew that carrying for the parents or other elderly relatives was part of the deal. 

Jana, and those in Jana like positions don’t bother me, no they don’t leave home but they do provide a valuable service to the household (especially with so many Littles left to care for). It’s the young people that just want to sit around and act like teens for 20yrs that bother me. 

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4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Hell not even that long ago- my great Aunt who was born in 1914 did this, her parents died relatively young though, she never married nor left the family home.

Are you my cousin? I’m not sure what year my great aunt was born, but my grandfather was born in 1898 and he was the oldest of six children. Aunt Ruth was the youngest. Their parents died relatively young and she lived in the house she was born in her whole life. 

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5 minutes ago, SheTV said:

Are you my cousin? I’m not sure what year my great aunt was born, but my grandfather was born in 1898 and he was the oldest of six children. Aunt Ruth was the youngest. Their parents died relatively young and she lived in the house she was born in her whole life. 

No I don’t think so.😝 I think it’s just really common. My Aunt was one of the eldest children in the family. She and one older brother never married and took care of their Mom in her older years (their Dad died in his 50s). She also helped care for her niece and her brother when he was sick from cancer. Her nieces and nephews cared for her in her old age. Before commercialized caregiving for elderly and disabled persons this is what a lot of the “spinster aunts” did with their time and how they contributed to the household in which they lived. 

IF Jana does not want to marry or have children, she might be very fulfilled caring for JB & Michelle later on. She would have a lot more freedom (emotional, physical and financial) as their caregiver than she would as a wife and mother. 

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Maybe Jana wants to stay at home until all of the little girl are grown up and safe from being molested by anyone?

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50 minutes ago, winsomeone said:

Maybe Jana wants to stay at home until all of the little girl are grown up and safe from being molested by anyone?

I've actually wondered this myself. It wouldn't surprise me if Jana feels a fair amount of survivor's guilt. 😞

Edited by Zella
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On 3/7/2019 at 5:13 AM, Jynnan tonnix said:

Same here -  I wasn't even particularly young when I got married (at 25), but was still living at home. I had gone to college, but moved back in afterwards, and somehow never got around to getting my own place until after I married (which I really regret in retrospect - there was a lot I never learned). I basically knew how to make grilled cheese sandwiches and scrambled eggs, though I'm sure I could have managed a couple of other things if I'd had to. But I got the Betty Crocker cookbook as a wedding gift as well, and between that and the Julia Child reruns I got hooked on, I found that I really loved to cook. My mother was a decent, though very basic cook, but never really enjoyed it, so I guess I grew up never thinking of it as anything but a chore which I had no particular interest in learning to do.

Of course, 34 years later I still haven't figured out anything which makes cleaning more exciting. That is an inspiration I could use....

I couldn't cook much when I was married but I had a mother, mother-in-law and grandmother who were fabulous cooks.  I sat with them and wrote down every recipe I could think of.  I made mistakes, but we laughed those off.  Of course ,I came from a family of good cooks and the Duggar girls don't have that advantage.  But maybe their mothers-in-law had some favorite recipes?  I mean gee whiz, you think of good cooking when you think of the south!

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On 3/9/2019 at 1:56 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Well yes, often times a century or two ago 1-2 children would remain at home caring for the elderly parents. (If you were fortunate enough to have many children live to adulthood). Hell not even that long ago- my great Aunt who was born in 1914 did this, her parents died relatively young though, she never married nor left the family home. 

The male child would be responsible for the economic upkeep of the household and the female child would tend to the domestic and caregiving duties. If they did marry their spouse knew that carrying for the parents or other elderly relatives was part of the deal. 

Jana, and those in Jana like positions don’t bother me, no they don’t leave home but they do provide a valuable service to the household (especially with so many Littles left to care for). It’s the young people that just want to sit around and act like teens for 20yrs that bother me. 

My one aunt never married and took care of my grandparents. She was probably in her youth the prettiest of the 5 sisters. She was from the Dominican Republic and when Trujillo the dictator was in power he thought she was VERY attractive. 

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@frenchtoast, can you be so kind as to make a new episode thread? I am out and about, without access to the description. If someone else feels inclined, feel free! I want to snark on what I saw! 😁

Edited by Sew Sumi
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On 3/6/2019 at 8:31 PM, Horrified said:

I had a showerthought about Janna today. Do you think she's fulfilling an unspoken rule in the family that the eldest female is expected to remain in the family home forever so that she can tend to her siblings and then later be the "helpmeet" to her parents?  Kind of like in days gone by when the eldest son went into the priesthood? In Duggarworld, the eldest daughter remains ever virginal and commits to a life of servitude.  No wonder that girl is so damned competent compared to the rest of her family--she's decided to make the best of a bad situation and has taught herself actual skills.

No I don't think there's an unspoken rule.  JB has made clear he expects all of his children to marry. This also is not true through out the Duggarworld. The Bates married off their oldest daughter/s. Several other fundie families married off their  the oldest daughters. I think some fundies put so many obstacles in the way of marriage that it's easier to stay single. There also is a spoken rule that if you prefer not to marry or are unable to marry, that being single, living at home, and assisting is the only other alternative. 

Edited by Temperance
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On 3/4/2019 at 9:04 PM, Annb67 said:

As I've said, I've had multiple miscarriages but the whole, "No one recovers from the loss of a child" and "We wouldn't have made it without our family's support" is a bit much. My friend lost her 4 year year old grandson. No comparison.

I am sorry for your friends loss! And I will probably offend some and catch hell for this; I agree no comparison. I lost my 12 year old daughter; Madison this past August. Big difference; I cannot even explain.

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29 minutes ago, Texasmom1970 said:

I am sorry for your friends loss! And I will probably offend some and catch hell for this; I agree no comparison. I lost my 12 year old daughter; Madison this past August. Big difference; I cannot even explain.

I'm so sorry for your terrible loss. And of course, no comparison to the other situation. 

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On 3/6/2019 at 4:49 PM, madpsych78 said:

That's the other thing I wondered about. I think it was because Tyler was in the room, since Michelle is his great aunt, but why would Jackson say that like he was Tyler's relative from an older generation? I mean, JB and Michelle have referred to each other as "mom" and "dad" in front of their kids, and have referred to Mary as "grandma" instead of JB calling her "mom," but that's not unusual when referring to those relatives in front of very young kids.

Maybe Jackson is compassionate, and thinks too much hearing everyone else call Michelle "Mom" all day long will be depressing to Tyler, as he's not a son?  Maybe he thinks saying "aunt" is more inclusionary for the outlier.

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