S09.E04: Love and Loss

[frenchtoast]

From TLC.com schedule info:

Quote

Get ready, set, bake! Jessa, Lauren, Kendra, and Jana pair off with some of the little kids and go head-to-head to create a groom's cake for John and Abbie's wedding. Later, Josiah and Lauren's worlds are shaken up when they reveal some tragic news.

[louannems]

I honestly think that the reason Siren revealed their very early miscarrage 5 months after the event, was to drum up interest for this episode.  The same with Jessa's long, strange ode to Lauren's baby, cumilating is a photo of Jessa's pregnant belly.  It's just business as usual, keeping relevant and getting the teeeveee viewers.

[PikaScrewChu]

2 hours ago, louannems said:

I honestly think that the reason Siren revealed their very early miscarrage 5 months after the event, was to drum up interest for this episode.  The same with Jessa's long, strange ode to Lauren's baby, cumilating is a photo of Jessa's pregnant belly.  It's just business as usual, keeping relevant and getting the teeeveee viewers.

I'm actually a bit surprised they kept it quiet for this long. Certainly the rumors around Josiah's sexuality and the constant "They don't know how babby is formed" jokes must have annoyed the Duggars a bit? They're probably the least popular couple on the show and it would have given them a sympathy boost back in September. Now, not so much.

[Miera]

Was the friends wedding Josiah and Lauren supposed to go to on the day she miscarried Josie Balka’s?? 

[Sew Sumi]

46 minutes ago, Miera said:

Was the friends wedding Josiah and Lauren supposed to go to on the day she miscarried Josie Balka’s?? 

Not if Mrs. Swanson was there, unless the Swansons also know the Bateses through IBLP. No Duggar posted from Josie's wedding, but I guess Lauren could have had a relationship with Josie; they are about the same age. I

the episode itself was 99% cake contest (it had to be both gluten and sugar free), 1% Lauren sharing about the miscarriage. And in that front, TLC has already shown all that footage, so there was nothing new to see there, except Lauren's declaration that her baby was with Jesus and she would be able to hold it one day.

[Temperance]

3 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Not if Mrs. Swanson was there, unless the Swansons also know the Bateses through IBLP. No Duggar posted from Josie's wedding, but I guess Lauren could have had a relationship with Josie; they are about the same age. I

the episode itself was 99% cake contest (it had to be both gluten and sugar free), 1% Lauren sharing about the miscarriage. And in that front, TLC has already shown all that footage, so there was nothing new to see there, except Lauren's declaration that her baby was with Jesus and she would be able to hold it one day.

Well we know the Swansons were at Zach Bates's original wedding (as opposes to the vow renewal), because there is a picture of Lauren Swanson at Zach and Whitney's December wedding.  It's clearly Lauren. I keep saying the Swansons as IBLP as any of them. So it could be Josie Balka's wedding. 

[WahooLAH99]

Is this whole show going to be about how these idiots can’t bake a cake!

[Jenilane6]

What a waste of food!  The pre-tv show Duggar’s would have been thrilled with all those eggs and butter.  How soon they forgot.

[Sew Sumi]

6 minutes ago, WahooLAH99 said:

Is this whole show going to be about how these idiots can’t bake a cake!

Yes.

[Annb67]

Oh my. Lauren is drama! I'm so nauseous, oh I'm so nauseous, giggle, I can't taste it I'm so nauseous. 

[Annb67]

Btw Jessa, it says how many grams on the box of butter you idiot.

[VioletNevermind]

Well, shit.  I just spent an hour of my Monday evening watching a pack of uber-Christians bake cakes.  The joke’s on me.

[Annb67]

I'm going to hell but TRYING TO FIND BABY CRIBS?! Oh brother.

[flyingdi]

10 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

Oh my. Lauren is drama! I'm so nauseous, oh I'm so nauseous, giggle, I can't taste it I'm so nauseous. 

I agree.  I feel bad for Lauren, I do but she is one helluva actress!  She talks like she's 80!  "Look at me!  I'm a grownup! "

 "I'm grateful for my mother.  She's such a comfort to me.". What 19 year old talks like that?

[sATL]

Umm - did we really need the heavenly funeral scene complete with rolling clouds and a cross ?

[Annb67]

1 minute ago, flyingdi said:

I agree.  I feel bad for Lauren, I do but she is one helluva actress!  She talks like she's 80!  "Look at me!  I'm a grownup! "

 "I'm grateful for my mother.  She's such a comfort to me.". What 19 year old talks like that?

As I've said, I've had multiple miscarriages but the whole, "No one recovers from the loss of a child" and "We wouldn't have made it without our family's support" is a bit much. My friend lost her 4 year year old grandson. No comparison.

[asuwur]

3 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

As I've said, I've had multiple miscarriages but the whole, "No one recovers from the loss of a child" and "We wouldn't have made it without our family's support" is a bit much. My friend lost her 4 year year old grandson. No comparison.

I think it depends on the person.  I have a friend who has a first baby, a lost baby and a rainbow baby. She is still somewhat broken a decade later. Now, it was a second trimester loss at 14 weeks so it was further in...She loves her other 2 desperately but she still deeply grieves the loss. I just can't judge or dismiss how anyone deals with these situations. Lauren is 19 and really isn't mentally prepared to process a loss like that in the Duggar Den of Fertility; J'Caleb not withstanding.

[OnlyMeSuz]

All I can say is that it must be nice to have the amount of time these people have on their hands...

[sATL]

4 minutes ago, asuwur said:

I think it depends on the person.  I have a friend who has a first baby, a lost baby and a rainbow baby. She is still somewhat broken a decade later. Now, it was a second trimester loss at 14 weeks so it was further in...She loves her other 2 desperately but she still deeply grieves the loss. I just can't judge or dismiss how anyone deals with these situations. Lauren is 19 and really isn't mentally prepared to process a loss like that in the Duggar Den of Fertility; J'Caleb not withstanding.

rainbow baby? 

Edited March 5, 2019 by sATL

[Jenilane6]

Jessa wouldn’t want to be the cake that is pretty on the outside and awful on the inside.  Ha ha ha.

[asuwur]

1 minute ago, sATL said:

rainbow baby? 

A rainbow baby is a baby born after a pregnancy or infant loss.

[Fostersmom]

16 minutes ago, flyingdi said:

I agree.  I feel bad for Lauren, I do but she is one helluva actress!  She talks like she's 80!  "Look at me!  I'm a grownup! "

 "I'm grateful for my mother.  She's such a comfort to me.". What 19 year old talks like that?

I sat here watching and I literally said out loud to my cats, "I just can't with this girl" when she was doing her solo interview. She came across as so contrived and just, well, fake. 

[madpsych78]

8 minutes ago, Jenilane6 said:

Jessa wouldn’t want to be the cake that is pretty on the outside and awful on the inside.  Ha ha ha.

The irony.

[Lunera]

So Abbie is also gluten free and sugar free? Is this the new fundie diet going around? 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Lunera

[Maya]

Why did the groom’s cake need to be sugar and gluten free if it’s for John not Abbie? 

[Sew Sumi]

25 minutes ago, sATL said:

rainbow baby? 

A live birth after a miscarriage.

[sATL]

6 hours ago, Lunera said:

So Abbie is also gluten free and sugar free? Is this the new fudie diet going around? 

6 hours ago, Maya said:

Why did the groom’s cake need to be sugar and gluten free if it’s for John not Abbie? 

I'm all for eating healthier and better for the long term, but I'm not sure the main wedding and/or grooms cake is where one should break out with something that the majority isn't going to eat.  A cake that has an aftertaste from using something artificial or different isn't a good thing. That is a memory for the wrong reason.

I too had a friend who had allergies ( and possible a preference) on what her wedding cake should be. As a compromise - one tier (it may have been the top one) was made to her preferences and that is what she ate her piece from during the reception. But the main cake was some flavor that everyone could enjoy.  

And by sugar free - did John/Abby mean that it could be sweeten by fresh fruit? I think canned fruit has sugar to some degree. If so, I thought someone had a cake w/o frosting but had a fruit filling/topping.... all of these weddings are running together..

Doesn't Duncan Hines/Pillsbury/somebody make gluten free cake mix?

Edited March 5, 2019 by sATL

[yogi2014L]

On 3/4/2019 at 9:04 PM, Annb67 said:

As I've said, I've had multiple miscarriages but the whole, "No one recovers from the loss of a child" and "We wouldn't have made it without our family's support" is a bit much. My friend lost her 4 year year old grandson. No comparison.

I agree. I've had early miscarriages. It sucks and its sad but it is not IMO comparable to actual infant loss. Or late pregnancy loss. I get that people process things how they process and its ok to grieve and be sad for any loss but that is a little much

 I wonder if Michelle (after losing Jubilee) is secretly rolling her eyes at Lauren being so dramatic.  

I'm being extra sensitive to this topic right now. I'd never say to my cousin (whose full term son passed away traumatically during labor) that I would know how it feels to have lost a child (referencing my early miscarriages). Now that I was lucky enough to go on to have a healthy pregnancy and baby , I couldn't imagine the pain of late pregnancy loss. I'm sure if/when she goes on to have a full term pregnancy Lauren will understand.

But it is now her storyline so until then....

Edited March 6, 2019 by yogi2014L

[Snickerdoodle]

So if this is a groom's cake, and said groom never really had dietary restrictions, did the cake really need to be gluten and sugar free? Alternatively, if the groom's cake is gluten/sugar free, will the wedding cake have gluten and sugar for those without dietary restrictions?

Listen, I don't proclaim to be a great baker.  But I was yelling at my TV when Kendra and Jenni (?) threw out the lumpy butter and eggs.  You can work with that!  That's what the mixer is for.

Jessa did make me laugh with the whole recipe was from another country thing.  Even though at the beginning she said she needed x grams of butter, I didn't catch on.

I felt bad for Lauren when she started talking about seeing other people with babies after having her miscarriage.  Let's face it, she's around a lot of babies. That would be very upsetting, especially since her main purpose in that cult religion is to produce as many babies as possible.  I hope that she is getting some counseling.  She was so devastated.

[Snickerdoodle]

6 minutes ago, sATL said:

Doesn't Duncan Hines/Pillsbury/somebody make gluten free cake mix?

Yes they do. It's not too bad, either.

[madpsych78]

3 minutes ago, yogi2014L said:

I agree. I've had early miscarriages. It sucks and its sad but it is not IMO comparable to actual infant loss. Or late pregnancy loss. I get that people process things how they process and its ok to grieve and be sad for any loss but that is a little much

 I wonder if Michelle (after losing Jubilee) is secretly rolling her eyes at Lauren being so dramatic.  

I'm being extra sensitive to this topic right now. I'd never say to my cousin (whose full term son passed away traumatically during labor) that I would know how it feels to have lost a child (referencing my early miscarriages). Now that I was lucky enough to go on to have a full term pregnancy,I couldn't imagine the pain of late pregnancy loss. I'm sure if/when she goes on to have a full term pregnancy she'll understand.

But it is now her storyline so until then....

I've never been pregnant, so I haven't had the experience that Lauren has had or even one who has had a late miscarriage or birthed a preemie or had full-term births or whatever. That being said, I did think Lauren was being a little overdramatic - if only because neither Michelle nor Anna, who both had early miscarriages, were as dramatic. And, more importantly, Lauren has not experienced a full term pregnancy (whereas both Michelle and Anna had at least one child when they miscarried), so who is she to talk like she knows everything there is to know about being pregnant. 

[luvbadtv]

Gluten free baking isn't super easy.  You can't just take a recipe and change out the flour.  There are a lot of good recipes online.  I'm not sure about the sugar free.  I don't know if they could use applesauce, but that would be a good substitute.

I have never seen Jenny so happy!

Edited March 5, 2019 by luvbadtv

[sATL]

I wish TLC (which I think the network at least one cooking show) would teach this crew some basic food prep before airing something like this. Erin Bates wasn't available for a facetime call? Now that's a woman whose come a long way with her cooking skills.

An egg stuck to the carton, then it breaks, and it is poured into the batter, straight from the carton.  Yuck !   

what they were down to their last egg out of 18 ?

[Gemma Violet]

Jessa's helper (can't remember her name) pointed out in the beginning that a cake should be baked at about 350 degrees.  Jessa totally ignored her.

Didn't anyone think to leave the butter out of the fridge a couple of hours to make it more easily mixed?  Or put it in the microwave to soften it?

[tabloidlover]

Mechelle should be utterly humiliated by this shitshow.  These girls were supposedly raised to be homemakers ffs.   Not a single one can bake a cake.  Jess’s can’t even figure out directions- the lightbulb really should have gone off for her when she tried baking at 175.      

*exception being Jana, as we know Jana can do everything.

Did anyone else notice what a pissy attitude Josie had during Lauren’s TH about baking the cake?   

[Sile]

Seriously?  Jessa is a 20 something wife and mother that has never made a cake?  Even from a mix?

Even so, who tries to cream butter with a whisk?  I'm amazed that they didn't have a top end mixer on their gimme list for their wedding.  Didn't they just go down the aisle at BB&B and scan everything on the shelf?  Even so, there was a glimmer of hope when she knew the purpose of baking powder.

Then she referred to cake batter as dough and I knew that this was definitely not going to be Good Eats...

[Zella]

Okay I've never actually watched an episode of this show, but this abortion of a cake-making expedition has me intrigued. 🤣

[truebluesmoky]

Did you notice how happy Jenni was in her scenes with Kendra? She’s always seemed a little sad and is in a bit of an odd position in the family. Hannie and Jackson were close until she outgrew him, and now she seems to be in preteen mode. Jordyn has Anna’s oldest daughter as a bestie, and Josie stayed a forever baby. Jenni is the most lost of the lost girls. But she was smiling and happy baking the cake and in her talking heads with Kendra, and Kendra was so good with her. She seems better with young girls than Jenni’s actual sisters. I loved Kendra throughout, actually... I also love how shiny and healthy her hair looks!

[Squirrely]

31 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

Jessa's helper (can't remember her name) pointed out in the beginning that a cake should be baked at about 350 degrees.  Jessa totally ignored her.

Johanna was with Jessa, who at about 12-13 years old proved herself to be smarter than her big sis!

Jessa, to answer your question, I have a kitchen scale! But I wouldn't judge anyone who doesn't. It's more accurate to weigh ingredients for baking, but it's probably beyond Jessa's abilities. I'm pretty sure she'd include the weight of whatever dish was holding the ingredient and just mess it up far more! 

I loved Kendra with Jennifer! 

I'll give Lauren props for taking on the precious miracle. I wish Jordyn could have had her own partner. She barely gets a word out before Josie interrupts her. 

I've seen 5 year-olds turn out more sophisticated projects than 13-14 year-old Jackson did there. Fondant, especially a box of Wilton brand, can be a PITA, but good lord. I didn't really notice his immaturity pointed out out here from a previous episode, but it smacked me in the face tonight. Who could blame Jana for not letting them help her with the cake or frosting? 

[truebluesmoky]

I can’t believe the ingredients by weight combined with the super low seeming temperature weren’t strong enough clues for Jessa to realize she was probably looking at a recipe from the UK. If all she did was google and choose the first recipe she saw, couldn’t she have just as easily switched to the second recipe on the list?

[Rabbittron]

I love when she threw shade because she said she just said she couldn't believe anybody could read her t-shirt. Is it because it was in cursive or the Duggars can't read.

[Spencer Hastings]

Kendra is my favorite Duggar spouse (for now). She was really natural with Jenni and was humble about their cake tasting the best.  She seems like a genuinely sweet person. 

I can’t fault Jessa for not having baking skills. I’m 31 years old and wouldn’t even need a whole hand to count how many cakes I’ve made! We aren’t cake people in my family so there’s really no need. 

[ginger90]

Too bad Jill isn’t on the show. She has a lovely Bosch mixer! Retail, around $450.. 😲 

[lookeyloo]

I still  contend a lot of this is made up for the show. Not that they are excellent cooks or bakers but I’ll bet they know a bit more than they are letting on. Otherwise it would be plain boring. 

[winsomeone]

Jackson is 15, or will soon be. Tyler is 10-11, and they are the same size. Plus Jackson is so terribly thin and pale looking. In no way does he act like a 15 year old boy in any aspect. What is going on with him..nothing good medically I fear? Why has he always been kept with his much younger sisters instead of the group of his slightly older brothers? What aren't we being told about this child I wonder?

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, flyingdi said:

I agree.  I feel bad for Lauren, I do but she is one helluva actress!  She talks like she's 80!  "Look at me!  I'm a grownup! "

 "I'm grateful for my mother.  She's such a comfort to me.". What 19 year old talks like that?

Somebody who's raised in isolation in a group (cult, family, whatever) run by people who promote that kind of talk and keep them away from the regular world.

That old-people over-formal phoniness talk is old-man Gothard and his minions all the way. I talked like that as a child and young teen. Luckily, at the time I didn't realize how extremely weird I must have sounded. Ever since I got free of it, I've cringed every time I think of it.

Lauren is pretty all-in on her subculture's line, I'd say. 

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, truebluesmoky said:

I can’t believe the ingredients by weight combined with the super low seeming temperature weren’t strong enough clues for Jessa to realize she was probably looking at a recipe from the UK. If all she did was google and choose the first recipe she saw, couldn’t she have just as easily switched to the second recipe on the list?

I doubt Jessa really has a clue about different countries using different weights and measures, honestly.

Not only does she seem to be at least moderately stupid, on the Duggar pattern, but she clearly doesn't give a shit about knowledge of any variety -- except for rote memorization by toddlers of Psalm One, in the KJV. Thinking isn't something she values. 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Churchhoney

[sigmaforce86]

9 hours ago, sATL said:

I'm all for eating healthier and better for the long term, but I'm not sure the main wedding and/or grooms cake is where one should break out with something that the majority isn't going to eat.  A cake that has an aftertaste from using something artificial or different isn't a good thing. That is a memory for the wrong reason.

And by sugar free - did John/Abby mean that it could be sweeten by fresh fruit? I think canned fruit has sugar to some degree. If so, I thought someone had a cake w/o frosting but had a fruit filling/topping.... all of these weddings are running together..

I have to eat sugar free and can't even use fruit like applesauce or banana (pumpkin is OK though luckily).  I'm not gluten free but do have restrictions on types of flours I can use.  Example I made muffins yesterday with Spelt flour which isn't gluten free but also with Stevia to sweeten.  It's the Stevia that does the aftertaste, it's a weird sweetener, You have to use far less than regular sugar, it's not 1:1 then make up the bulk with other things.     But it also has a sort of tipping point where this amount is just right and the food tastes fine, this extra 1/4 or 1/2 tsp puts it over the edge and the food is now bitter.  Plus it does take some getting used to, if JD goes off sugar entirely living with Abbie I'd bet in 6-12 months he'd find regular cakes, cookies etc too sweet.  It occurred to me where the other Duggar boys seem to "fill out" when they married JD is already pretty filled out and I'm wondering if her dietary needs plus her nursing background might mean better nutrition for him where we'll slowly see a change for the better in his health and physique?

I don't know why the grooms cake had to fit her needs, you'd think that would be JD's choice but they haven't said what they're planning for the regular cake or dessert either - I wonder will it be something she can eat and hope the rest of the guests like it or multiple choice.

I can't figure out Lauren, last night I had almost decided she just has resting bitch face that makes her talking heads look weird.  But watching the full interview it seems like more than that; is she a drama queen or does she over react/act because she doesn't know what to do in front of the camera or is she milking it because she's enjoying this new "celebrity" she has..........I don't know but her hesitations between sentences and dramatic sighs and purposeful fundie statements come across as phony and off putting.  Kendra is fun to watch and seems genuine, Abbie I haven't seen enough of yet, Anna is who she is plus she's not on often anymore, but Lauren - I'm not sure I could ever warm up to her and I wonder what she's really like as a SIL to the Duggar girls.

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, sATL said:

I wish TLC (which I think the network at least one cooking show) would teach this crew some basic food prep before airing something like this. Erin Bates wasn't available for a facetime call? Now that's a woman whose come a long way with her cooking skills.

I expect they figured the only entertainment value it could possibly have was seeing them blunder through, don't you think?

If they'd actually baked a cake in a reasonable way, there would have been nothing for anybody to watch -- and certainly nothing for anybody to talk about, seems to me. 

[Julia67]

This was painful to watch.  Surely Jessa could have gotten online and found a recipe conversion chart/calculator that would have helped her "exchange" the amounts for the recipe into US measurements.  They showed her googling on her phone several times.  What amazes me is that none of them seem to mind being portrayed as bumbling idiots!  

I also can't believe Jessa doesn't have a fancy mixer much less NO mixer at all??  You can get a cheap hand mixer for less than $20-or surely they show up at their beloved thrift shops occasionally.  Maybe she just isn't much of a cook so it doesn't matter to her.  My Kitchen-aid mixer is nearly 20 years old, and I use it almost every day for LOTS more than baking!

Do we know where Josiah and Lauren are living?  Didn't they look at some HUGE house that JB was renovating?  It seems like the younger married kids have much nicer (and larger) homes than Ben and Jessa, who are soon going to be more cramped than they already are with another baby coming.  Of course, we're talking about kids who lived in a 3-bedroom ranch home with 14 siblings, so it probably seems spacious.

Does anyone know if Abbie continues to work as a nurse?  I sure hope so!