S02.E14: Super Bowl Sunday

[Jodithgrace]

I was finally able to watch the end of the episode on NBC.com. 

One of the benefits of watching tv with the CC on is that I "hear" things that aren't necessarily obvious to most viewers. There was definitely a code blue called while Rebecca was on the phone. As soon as I saw it, I knew it was Jack. Yes, it did seem quick, but we really don't know how long Rebecca was on the phone. 

My husband was at a dinner meeting of an association he belonged to when the organization treasurer walked in. He walked halfway across the room and then fell flat on his face. Dead, from a massive heart attack. I don't think that anything could have saved him. So, if somebody dies instantly from a massive heart attack, how long do they do a code blue on him before they call it? I have no idea, but it didn't really bother me. 

Randall's quirkiness never bothers me, especially since he has Beth to rein him in. Her remark about "third person Randall" was very funny. I do wonder, though, if he thought through the implications of his "hot dad" apron. With the flames.

[sacrebleu]

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That actually bugged. The doctor said catastrophic failure, and I really find it hard to believe someone at the hospital would tell Rebecca, a new widow, that it's called a widow maker.

My husband had a 9 cm Triple A (abdominal aortic aneurysm) and when he was diagnosed and being wheeled from the CT to a waiting ambulance to take him to another hospital for emergency surgery, the doctor told me that [he] was 'fortunate', because these types of aneurysm were generally only found one of two ways, by accident (when being scanned for something else) or by autopsy. So yeah, I can believe they described Jack's heart attack this way.

2

 

That rang false to me, too. That's what they call it when they catch it in time (or far after the fact) I don't think they would say it to a shocked widow. My best friends dad was feeling unwell last winter-- and went immediately to the doctor- who discovered arterial blockage and scheduled him immediately for a triple bypass. They did refer to it as a widow maker at the time. The day after he went to the doc and was diagnosed, it snowed. Had he put off going to the doctor and instead had decided to shovel snow, he probably would have keeled over.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         I'm still calling shenanigans on remembering Jack on whatever day the Superbowl airs, instead of the date. 

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, imhooked said:

so how old was Jack when he died?  Wasn't he 36 when the kids were born?  and this was 17 years later, which would make him 53?  He didn't look 53, then 20 years later Rebecca would be 73?  She doesnt look 73.   Do I have Jacks age wrong on the pilot episode?

I thought Rebecca was 28 when she gave birth, which would make her 45 when Jack died and 65 now.  The babies were born on Jack's 36th birthday.

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I saw it, but in this show anybody could be in any given episode in flashbacks. Ron Cephas Jones was also in the credits, though I can't recall seeing him in the ep.

Alexandra Breckenridge and Ron C Jones must have better contracts if their names are in the credits even if they don't appear.

22 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I don't know what it was like in Jersey (is that where the tree was supposed to be?), but my guess is that it wasn't warm enough to sit peacefully outside for an extended period of time in a light jacket.

The tree is in Pittsburgh, which makes me confused about where Rebecca lives now. I thought they were near Randall, but they're still in Pittsburgh?

[Empress1]

7 minutes ago, Haleth said:

The tree is in Pittsburgh, which makes me confused about where Rebecca lives now. I thought they were near Randall, but they're still in Pittsburgh?

Kevin said New Jersey in this episode ("I'm a 37-year-old sitcom actor living with his mother in New Jersey, I can't make fun of anyone"), which is why I thought the tree was Jersey. That was dumb of me, given that they were living in Pittsburgh when Jack died. So Kevin went from New Jersey to Pittsburgh and back in a day? I guess it's possible if he flew.

[meep.meep]

You guys aren't westerners.  I have no idea where Rebecca and Miguel live, but I looked up Trenton NJ to Pittsburgh PA and it's a 4.5 hour drive.  

[chitowngirl]

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Always change your smoke detector batteries, kids. Do it for Jack. 

A new Super Bowl Sunday tradition. 

[Trillian]

9 hours ago, LeisureTime said:

I reallly liked this episode. I loved Jack's hero moments with the kids, I love that his actual death wasn't this big grandiose moment. I loved Kevin's talk at the tree and his crack about it maybe not being the right one. I love Toby and Randall and his family. And I really wonder if grownup Tess is related to kid Tess.  I just wish there could have been a touch more comfort between Rebecca and Miguel before she tells the kids. Like maybe a hug and they almost break together before she pulls herself back and makes her "be strong" speech. I'm also looking forward to more Deja.

IRL, they would have hugged each other for comfort, but i suspect the writers were wary of having Miguel touch her because some people on the boards would be screaming about he made a move on the grieving widow before the body was even cold.

[Big Mother]

There have been 3 devastating fatal fires in my community in the past year or so. In one, a mother and 3 of her children died, and the father and 2 surviving siblings, who all jumped from the roof - the father had to PUSH them down bc they were so afraid to jump - are still, as far as I know, intubated and unaware that the rest of the family perished. In another one, 7 children from the same family died. Both houses had the same setup. In both cases the fire rushed up from the ground floor to the open staircase, effectively trapping everyone who slept in the front bedroom; they couldn't jump through the window bc the fire was raging from below, and the stairs were blocked off. In both cases there was only one working smoke detector; in one case in the basement - which no one on the 2nd floor or attic heard - and in the other case, on the ground flour, therefore a sibling and cousin were able to yell up to the parents that there's a fire, and run out the side door. In the 3rd case, an older couple was killed when they failed to completely extinguish a charcoal grill burning on their patio, and the flames basically burned for hours until a neighbor noticed. A teenage daughter managed to jump; the father went back to get the mother, who I believe was in a wheelchair or had some other difficulty walking, and they both died. I think there were no working smoke detectors in that house at all.

Our community is still in shock and mourning, especially in the cases of the 7 siblings and the mother + 3 siblings. Having working batteries in smoke detectors is of EXTREME importance. I am always afraid to go to bed if I dont have 2 working smoke detectors. I even failed a housing inspection recently because the smoke detector outside my kitchen was 10 feet too far from my son's bedroom!

May God watch over all of us. Yes, Jack was a fictional character, but I hope this episode raises awareness of fire safety. Running back into a burning house for ANY reason, is never a good idea. 

(I can't even watch this episode bc of my phobia of house fires.)

18 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

You guys aren't westerners.  I have no idea where Rebecca and Miguel live, but I looked up Trenton NJ to Pittsburgh PA and it's a 4.5 hour drive.  

There are parts of NJ that are literally bordering PA. Like Cherry Hill. But then again, that would make it very far from NYC, where Randall works.

[balmz]

didn't care for this episode, i felt more terrible for mr giggles then i did jack, also just throwing him in the trash? come on!

 

the overhype and shilling of jack and the episode really put me off him and it when it aired

 

the one doctor with rebecca was annoying, she should have told him to piss off 

 

also jack's death was pretty stupid and unrealistic,

 

also minor because i know rebecca was mourning but when she told miguel to take a walk in his own house, that annoyed me alot, also agree with them not caring about miguel;s grief

 

kate annoyed me with the cloud thing, like i'm surprised there are still people who work on vcrs, it'd be a great idea to save it to the cloud and cds and more better media

 

was curious about deja, good on tess calling randall out

[babs1226]

10 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

I did not hear that but I wonder why he could not have chocolate or grape flavored candy?  Any nurses or doctors out there?

I don't think he couldn't have it.  I think he just didn't want anything chocolate or grape flavored.

[Empress1]

3 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

You guys aren't westerners.  I have no idea where Rebecca and Miguel live, but I looked up Trenton NJ to Pittsburgh PA and it's a 4.5 hour drive.  

A flight from Trenton to Pittsburgh is about 90 minutes though.

[Bluedog100]

Jesus these siblings are self-indulgent.

[Valjean3902]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, something to note: Jack would have died on January 25th, since that's when the '98 Super Bowl was. I know the family just kind of deals with his death on whatever Super Bowl Sunday there is, but that was something I had to remind myself halfway through the episode: technically, the anniversary for his death had already passed.

Because it is all about me...

I received a call early on a Sunday morning that my son's father had died suddenly.  The day before was the big cross state college rivalry football game and my son's favorite team won.  I had gotten home very late the night before, so we hadn't discussed the game yet.  A couple of hours after I got the call about his Dad, my son came beaming out of his room happily chattering about what a great football game it was.  Then I had to give my son the bad news, which was really hard for both of us. 

The date of the cross state rivalry football game jumps around and doesn't match the date the year my ex died.  However, it always brings to mind the traumatic experience of my telling my son about his dad's death.  It is not that we forget the actual date.  We are sad then too. I can see where Superbowl Sunday, no matter when it occurred, would be a trigger date for the Pearsons. 

[Jillybean]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

I thought Rebecca was 28 when she gave birth, which would make her 45 when Jack died and 65 now.  

I thought she was 30, but yeah -- she's several years younger than Jack.

Kevin was shown riding in the back of a car, so he either hired a driver to take him to the tree, or to the airport.

It was odd to me than none of the siblings seemed to call one another or their mom on Super Bowl Sunday (except Kevin calling Rebecca).

Edited February 5, 2018 by Jillybean

[3 is enough]

It was a very good episode but I did not cry.  Loved grown-up Tess. As soon as I saw the white couple come in to see the little boy I figured it out. I am relieved we finally know how and when Jack died, but I do think they dragged it out a bit too long.

So we have another episode on Tuesday and then a break for the Olympics.  But that will leave only 3 new episodes this year.  Guess they will be finishing in March again.

 

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Kevin was shown riding in the back of a car, so he either hired a driver to take him to the tree, or to the airport.

I think he lost his license as a result of his DUI.

Edited February 5, 2018 by 3 is enough

[notcreative enough]

3 hours ago, imhooked said:

so how old was Jack when he died?  Wasn't he 36 when the kids were born?  and this was 17 years later, which would make him 53?  He didn't look 53, then 20 years later Rebecca would be 73?  She doesnt look 73.   Do I have Jacks age wrong on the pilot episode?

Not everyone looks their age. My dad is in his early 60s and he doesn't look it. A woman he works with said she was older than he was and she was only in her 50s. Plus some people have certain hardships that age them prematurely. 

[TV Diva Queen]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

I thought Rebecca was 28 when she gave birth, which would make her 45 when Jack died and 65 now.  The babies were born on Jack's 36th birthday.

Alexandra Breckenridge and Ron C Jones must have better contracts if their names are in the credits even if they don't appear.

The tree is in Pittsburgh, which makes me confused about where Rebecca lives now. I thought they were near Randall, but they're still in Pittsburgh?

Kevin did say he didn't think he was even at the right tree.  So maybe he was at a tree in NJ.  (kidding)

[meep.meep]

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Come to think of it, chocolate and grapes are both poisonous for dogs.

OMG YOU GUYS, JACK KNEW HE WAS A DOG ALL ALONG, AND NOW HE'S AUDIO!!1!!1!

Off to Reddit to share this theory...

But what is the lizard ???? .........

As to the uselessness of the small dog theory - I had two dogs, each weighing more than 50 pounds, not make a sound when a bear came walking around our tent at night.  They would have slept through a house fire and been almost impossible to haul out.

[monakane]

14 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I sorta wanted Toby to say, “Enough!!!”. I guess he would look bad doing so but I wanted to do it.

I can't stand mopey Kate.  How about honoring the father who loved you so much by doing something with your life.  I like the actress, but I can't stand the character.  And Toby is no Jack.

[Ohmo]

14 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Toby is great and Kate is lucky to have him. Frankly, he has the patience of saint to deal with Kate's neverending drama and emotional baggage. I just roll my eyes at the people who rag on him.

So agree.   Kate seems to have this power over men.  Though it's not the case in my family, I can understand the dynamic between Jack and Kate.  Some father-daughter dynamics are like that.  I think that we're supposed to think that the Kate-Kevin dynamic is "the twin thing," but I think she treats him like crud.  When they were kids, he bribed the cool kid with Halloween candy to hold her hand.  As an adult, Kevin's given her a job.  Kate always talks a good game with Kevin, but she's always seemed very self-involved.  Ditto Toby.  I like Jack, but sometimes Kate's melodrama about what happened is just too much.  She's not happy unless everyone is grieving as she is.  Toby puts up with a lot and gets precious little in return from Kate, IMO.

[3 is enough]

13 minutes ago, monakane said:

I can't stand mopey Kate.  How about honoring the father who loved you so much by doing something with your life

Bingo!  Mopey Kate is annoying.  Jack must be churning in the urn seeing her like this 20 years later. I never disliked Toby as much as a lot of people but he has toned down the silliness and seems to be quite the sympathetic and understanding guy. 

[Blakeston]

14 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

But what is the lizard ???? .........

Considering how little screentime the lizard got, and how the characters discarded it in the trash and then pretended it never existed...I'm going to guess Randall's birth mother.

[Ohmo]

14 hours ago, anna0852 said:

I took that as Rebecca making multiple phone calls, trying to find hotel accommodations. And I don't think she would have focused on the commotion because when she left her husband he was fine. Even if in the back of her head she had associated all the activity with a patient going downhill she had no reason to think it was Jack.

Maybe it's because I've spent a fair amount of times in hospital waiting rooms, but we'd always pay attention to things like that.  I also agree with those who say someone from the hospital would have gone to find her as soon as he coded.  She would not have been allowed in the room, but she would have been informed that he was in immediate crisis.

[movingtargetgal]

My grandfather died suddenly on Easter Sunday night.  I was supposed to make the two hour drive to join the family, however, it was snowed that morning, not a lot but enough to make the roads really icy.  My husband and I decided not to risk it and to visit the family the following weekend for my birthday.  When I called my grandparents they were relieved because they had been worried about us driving up there with the roads being so slippery.  For a long time I hated Easter and my birthday.  My grandfather had such a sense of humor and he and I had a very special connection.  He LOVED chocolate especially snickers, whoopers and M&M's.  Years later my best friend's daughter who I always considered my niece gave birth to a little boy.  I did not know why but he and I had this connection.  His mother even noticed and would always tell me that I was his favorite person.  His sense of humor reminded my of my grandfather.  His facial expressions were just like grampie's too.  I showed his mother a video of grampie and she said he reminded her of her son. When he was 3 and his sister was 4 they found out it was my birthday and told me they wanted to make me a cake.  My nephew insisted that the cake be decorated with snickers, whoopers and M&M's.  I got a little teary eyed when I saw the cake.  I told them about my grampie.  My 3 year old looked at me and said "I don't think he wants you to be sad on your birthday because he loved you so much."  I don't know if I believe in reincarnation but I feel that my grandfather's spirit is with my nephew.  Every year he makes a huge deal about my birthday just like my grampie used to do.

Edited February 6, 2018 by movingtargetgal

[Shermie]

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I love Mars bars, but can't find them anymore

We have Mars Bars in Canada, delicious! Chocolate here doesn't have that waxy undertaste that American chocolate has.

I agree with those who felt the episode was overwrought, and I have issues with no neighbour noticing the fire until the house was a raging inferno. And with Jack not being taken to the hospital in an ambulance. He had second degree burns and smoke inhalation, that's a terrible EMT. Even after a minor car accident, everyone I know gets checked at the hospital just to be sure. And Jack running back in for the damn dog and taking time to save the family's one and only photo album (yeah, right) and Kate's video. I guess Kevin and Randall didn't have any mementoes worth dying for.

[Dowel Jones]

2 hours ago, Calvada said:

  It must have taken a little bit of time for the house to become fully engulfed

The previous episode showed the flames rushing up the stairwell quite fast. I worked in the fire department for many years before retirement, and that's not unusual.  5 minutes and some houses will be fully involved.  And I'm guessing that the reason no one saw it so soon was that the neighborhood was inside their own homes watching the Super Bowl too.  I remember being at my sister's house, which is on a hillside and has a large picture window overlooking the neighborhood.  We were all chatting around until someone chanced to look out the window and noticed the house down the hill was on fire.  As for the tv show, what I can't see is waiting around in the bedroom to be told to get out.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Big Mother said:

There have been 3 devastating fatal fires in my community in the past year or so. In one, a mother and 3 of her children died, and the father and 2 surviving siblings, who all jumped from the roof - the father had to PUSH them down bc they were so afraid to jump - are still, as far as I know, intubated and unaware that the rest of the family perished. In another one, 7 children from the same family died. Both houses had the same setup. In both cases the fire rushed up from the ground floor to the open staircase, effectively trapping everyone who slept in the front bedroom; they couldn't jump through the window bc the fire was raging from below, and the stairs were blocked off. In both cases there was only one working smoke detector

If you're going to talk about those incidents, you should also mention that the cause of the first fire was an oil-burning menorah that was left on overnight, and the cause of the second fire was a hotplate that was also left on overnight. Both families were orthodox Jewish, and both the menorah and the hotplate were left on/burning for religious reasons. I'm also Jewish, so really not being anti-Semitic here, but I can't get over how reckless and stupid that was. I place the blame 100% on the adults who made those decisions.

To bring this back on topic, at least Jack didn't deliberately leave the crockpot turned on.

[Ohmo]

12 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

To quote Beth, "I don't know why you want to have a Superbowl party for 20 little girls to watch a game that they don't understand or care about". Randall's reply was "Its important to me that the girls love the day".

In Randall's defense, I think what he was trying to do is start to make Tess and Annie aware of family history.  They are very young, and they never knew Jack.  I can remember family rituals or events that I attended or was a part of when I was a child that were significant to my family history.  Yet, I didn't know it then.  I learned it later.  Yes, Randall was awkward about it, but I think he was trying to show his kids how important this day is to him.  They will never know Jack, but the girls love Randall.  One day, hopefully the Super Bowl will hold some significance to them simply because it's significant for their father whom they love

[Driad]

If the death of the lizard was supposed to lighten the episode, they failed. It looked like a leopard gecko, which can live 15-20 years if nobody steps on it.

The wall of sandwiches looked impressive (was that supposed to be a stadium?) but many children are picky eaters, who would take the sandwiches apart to remove pickles or whatever. Might be simpler to put out the cold cuts and let them make their own.

The news after the show had a segment about house fires that said fires spread faster now than they did in the mid-1900s because so many more curtains, cushions, etc. are synthetic and flammable.

[sasha206]

15 hours ago, mtlchick said:

Mandy Moore has her Emmy submission in hand with this one.  She was stellar.  

 

Agreed.  That was a great performance.

I enjoyed the show overall, however, Jack being the calm hero in the midst of a house burning down and people trapped seemed a little well, par for the course in the Jack is the greatest guy that ever walked this planet.

I do like how they showed him surviving the fire and then seemingly okay to being in cardiac arrest.  Good surprise element and well done.  

[luna1122]

11 minutes ago, Driad said:

If the death of the lizard was supposed to lighten the episode, they failed. It looked like a leopard gecko, which can live 15-20 years if nobody steps on it.

 

Yeah, I just do not get the humor there, if that's what they were going for, and it seemed to be. I'd be devastated if I killed some such creature, however accidentally, but Beth just seemed inconvenienced more than anything, even making a joke about it to Randall. The little girls didn't seem terribly upset either. I hope they don't get another pet of any ilk. Then again, apparently there are a lot of folks who wouldn't blink about letting a pet die in a fire, so maybe I'm oversensitive.

[Kohola3]

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So, if somebody dies instantly from a massive heart attack, how long do they do a code blue on him before they call it?

Until they run out of treatment options. 

In the field, they normally transport to the hospital to continue protocols and then pronounce the person there. In a hospital, you run through all of the therapies (drugs, defibrillation, pacemaker) appropriate for the situation.  I've been in codes that lasted 45 minutes or more but that was normally when there was some glimmer of cardiac activity at some point.  And sometimes they drop like a stone but it's an electrical problem and if given a shock very quickly (thus the presence of automatic defibrillators in so many public places now) you can restore a rhythm.

It all depends on the symptoms, the EKG, and some other criteria.

That is your emergency medicine lecture for the day.

[kili]

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The news after the show had a segment about house fires that said fires spread faster now than they did in the mid-1900s because so many more curtains, cushions, etc. are synthetic and flammable.

There is also a lot more use of particle board in furniture, that ignites much faster than a solid piece of wood. I saw this youtube video a few weeks ago where they conducted a test between "modern furnishings" and "legacy furnishings" to see which burned faster (spoiler alert: if Jack's death didn't get you to check your smoke detector, this video might convince you. Makes me want to go antiquing).

[SuzySmith]

Regarding the timeline - the fire happened later at night.   The kids all went their separate ways during the game (Kevin to Sophie's, Randall to his girlfriends', Kate went somewhere else).   Jack & Rebecca went, um, to bed early.  After they finished Jack got up and cleaned up the mess they had left when they hurried off to have their own celebration.   It was after that the crockpot went up in flames. 

I get the relevance of SBS to the Pearsons.  My grandmother died on Thanksgiving when I was 8 or 9.  We had a big family dinner and stopped by the hospital to visit on the way home (she had broken a hip earlier that week).  She passed before we got home.  I could not tell you the specific date, we always think of her on Thanksgiving.

[captain1]

I thought Rebecca's reaction to Jack's death was well acted.  My sister in law died instantaneously in a head on auto collision and when my brother called me to tell me I physically felt as though I had been punched in the solar plexus.  I dropped to my knees and literally could not breathe.  It was visceral.

Edited February 5, 2018 by captain1

[J-Man]

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There are parts of NJ that are literally bordering PA. Like Cherry Hill.

There are no parts of NJ that are less than 300 miles from Pittsburgh.

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You can pick up a Mars bar at Cost Plus World Market for $1.49 a bar.  Bed, Bath, & Beyond also has them in their food section (Bed, Bath & Beyond owns World Market).

If you get them at BB&B (presumably they're in the "Beyond" section) you can use your 20% off coupon!

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 Anyone who lives in any other part of the country beside LA would know you HAVE to have screens or insects would take over your house.

I've lived in California for almost 60 years and have never been in a house that didn't have screens. I think the house was screenless just to make it easier to film the escape scenes.

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Alexandra Breckinridge's (Sophie) name was in the opening credits too, but she wasn't on, was she?
 Ron Cephas Jones was also in the credits, though I can't recall seeing him in the ep.

Both of those actors are billed as regulars; their names are in the credits every week whether they appear or not. It's usually part of their contracts or union rules. Lyric Ross is a guest star. Guest stars' names are only shown when they actually appear in the episode.

So Rebecca said that every year Jack sends her something that "literally makes me belly laugh." So how exactly did sending Kevin make her laugh?

And when (and why) did Rebecca and Miguel move to New Jersey? Weren't they in Pittsburgh? Was this shown or discussed in another episode? Do they live near Randall?

[Driad]

An episode of M*A*S*H had a soldier gravely wounded on Christmas day, who had a photo of his children in his pocket. The doctors tried to keep him alive a few hours longer so he wouldn’t die on Christmas, for the sake of his kids.

[topanga]

1 minute ago, captain1 said:

I thought Rebecca's reaction to Jack's death was well acted.  My sister in law died instantaneously in a head on auto collision and when my brother called me to tell me I physically felt as though I had been pushed in the solar plexus.  I dropped to my knees and literally could not breathe.  It was visceral.

I’m so sorry to hear that. And I’ve been on the other side of that conversation, when I had to tell family members that their love one died. No one was rude or angry with me, but there was a lot of disbelief and denial. People actually told me that I was lying. And of course I didn’t take it personally. Everyone experiences grief diifferent ways. 

[luna1122]

6 minutes ago, J-Man said:

 

So Rebecca said that every year Jack sends her something that "literally makes me belly laugh." So how exactly did sending Kevin make her laugh?

 

I assumed she just meant that Kevin had made her laugh by not being sure he was unloading all his feelings at the right tree.

I didn't realize Alexandra Breckinridge was billed as a regular. Surely she'll be back then?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Come to think of it, chocolate and grapes are both poisonous for dogs.

OMG YOU GUYS, JACK KNEW HE WAS A DOG ALL ALONG, AND NOW HE'S AUDIO!!1!!1!

Off to Reddit to share this theory...

This post is not only my favorite part of this thread, but my favorite part of the Super Bowl, post-Super Bowl episode, and this thread combined.  Well done, @Blakeston.

[SueB]

15 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I have more thoughts, but one stuck in my mind from the first ten minutes: So, his house is on fire, like legit fire, and he runs inside to get the dog while the bedroom bursts into flame.....and he thinks there's time to grab as many personal possessions as possible?!?! Also, wouldn't the living room where these things all are be on fire too? 

Seriously, the dog is one thing. But taking a couple of extra minutes to shove pictures and videos in a bag, although sweet, is just plain stupid. 

Right, I forgot. He's Saint Jack. He can do no wrong, even in the face of death. 

I wanted to find it sweet, but I was a quarter charmed but three quarters irritated. 

Otherwise, only three moments really got to me: the immediate aftermath of Rebecca being told that Jack died, Kevin talking to the tree, and Rebecca/Kevin's phone call. I guess, for me, those two moments felt more realistic. Randall's plot was good, and I didn't mind them drawing parallels to Jack, but it felt...TV written, with all his speeches. Kate/Toby's storyline could have been really good had Toby not been a complete jerk and unable to read the signs. 

I also enjoyed the twist of the little boy being older Tess' foster kid she was placing. Though that means we won't ever see him again, as I can't imagine them continuing to do flashforwards, nor is there really a point? Or maybe they're going toward more flashforwards, since now they've told Jack's death.

And I see it's the return of Deja.

I wish I felt more, but it didn't. I think they overpromoted the episode. 

I think ‘anger at Jack’ is the next phase of grieving they will go thru.  It was a split-second decision and yet completely consistent with Jack’s ‘big gesture’ personality.  And it got him killed. Jack will never be able to learn from this mistake but the kids can. Note: This is the same mistake Leia was trying to teach Poe Dameron in The Last Jedi.  

BUT, the kids won’t be able to learn from the mistake if they don’t first decide to get mad at their ‘Saint Dad’ and then FORGIVE him. Even as late teens, these kids are naturally NOT going to blame their dead Father.  They’ll blame the Crockpot or their mother for no batteries or Miguel becaus he’s an easy target (it doesn’t have to be rational), but most likely they focus blame on themselves.  Kate blames herself for crying out for the dog (and her relationship with her Dad as ‘Daddy’s girl).  Kevin blames himself for leaving the house angry.   Randall may blame himself for not going to the hospital and hanging out with his new sweetie.  And, most irrational of all, Rebecca regrets biting that stupid candy bar.  

But it was Jack. Jack who recklessly went back for a dog and pictures.  Jack who didn’t understand that just cause your still moving, doesn’t mean you’ve survived the experience.   I was so very grateful they didn’t do the ‘Jack suffocates from swelling airway’ horrific death. The Widowmaker heart attack is semi-plausible and leaves less obvious people/things to blame.  It causes the confusion Randall talked about.  They thought they dodged a bullet and the found out they didn’t.  That’s really a bunch of mood swings in a short period of time that adds to the confusion. 

So, their ultimate path for full healing is to recognize that their Dad’s emotions overrode being prudent.  To get mad that he was thinking of saving little things versus valuing his own life, and then forgive him because he wasn’t a saint, he was just a good man.  THEN they can’t start to move forward.  Right now there is a part of them stuck on that hinge point. Until they recognize we’re some of there anger truly belongs and get over it, I think they’ll always have intense emotions they can’t put into perpective.  

[ShadowFacts]

7 minutes ago, J-Man said:

And when (and why) did Rebecca and Miguel move to New Jersey? Weren't they in Pittsburgh? Was this shown or discussed in another episode? Do they live near Randall?

In the Christmas episode last season it was shown that Rebecca and Kate returned from Kate's doctor's appointment to Rebecca and Miguel's house to change clothes before going to Randall's party, so they are within some sort of reasonable distance, no longer in Pittsburgh.

As to where the tree is, I don't think it's been said.  Randall and William stopped there on the way to Memphis and I think Randall said it was Jack's favorite place, but didn't specify where.  Could have been extreme eastern Pennsylvania so that it would be on the way to Memphis from New Jersey, and not too far for Kevin to have taken a car in one afternoon for the Super Bowl visit. 

[UsernameFatigue]

50 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

In Randall's defense, I think what he was trying to do is start to make Tess and Annie aware of family history.  They are very young, and they never knew Jack.  I can remember family rituals or events that I attended or was a part of when I was a child that were significant to my family history.  Yet, I didn't know it then.  I learned it later.  Yes, Randall was awkward about it, but I think he was trying to show his kids how important this day is to him.  They will never know Jack, but the girls love Randall.  One day, hopefully the Super Bowl will hold some significance to them simply because it's significant for their father whom they love

No to belabour the point, but the kids are not "very young". Tess, who was very vocal about not wanting a superbowl party is 9. So since Randall always celebrates this day in honour of Jack, she has seen him do this before. And since the party had to be planned in advance, I am sure Tess voiced her displeasure at the idea in the planning stages. Also contrary to Randall's remark that he needs some boys in the house, Tess plays soccer. So it isn't that she doesn't like sports, she just has no interest in football. As someone who has  played (and watched) many sports since childhood, I also dislike football. I was willing to give Randall a pass as just being typical self indulgent Randall until he told the kids to sit down and watch the pregame. That is bordering on child abuse IMO. Lol. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[PRgal]

"You're my number 1..."  I hope Annie doesn't know about that.

LOVE the sandwich stadium chef Randall built! We just ordered pizza and wings and bought snacks. 

[J-Man]

2 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

In the Christmas episode last season it was shown that Rebecca and Kate returned from Kate's doctor's appointment to Rebecca and Miguel's house to change clothes before going to Randall's party, so they are within some sort of reasonable distance, no longer in Pittsburgh.

But do we know WHY? It doesn't seem like they have that much of a relationship with Randall and his family.

[PRgal]

1 minute ago, J-Man said:

But do we know WHY? It doesn't seem like they have that much of a relationship with Randall and his family.

Didn't Kevin say that he was in New Jersey, visiting his mom?  Kate and Miguel live there, probably not too far from Randall. 

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

In the Christmas episode last season it was shown that Rebecca and Kate returned from Kate's doctor's appointment to Rebecca and Miguel's house to change clothes before going to Randall's party, so they are within some sort of reasonable distance, no longer in Pittsburgh.

As to where the tree is, I don't think it's been said.  Randall and William stopped there on the way to Memphis and I think Randall said it was Jack's favorite place, but didn't specify where.  Could have been extreme eastern Pennsylvania so that it would be on the way to Memphis from New Jersey, and not too far for Kevin to have taken a car in one afternoon for the Super Bowl visit. 

Question in the spoilers thread.

[morgan]

20 minutes ago, J-Man said:

 

I've lived in California for almost 60 years and have never been in a house that didn't have screens. I think the house was screenless just to make it easier to film the escape scenes.

I grew up in Southern California and we definitely had screens (even if we didn’t have mosquitoes).  But when I moved to the northeast one thing I learned was that most people remove their screens for the winter.  It’s amazing how much more light the windows let in when they are screen free!  So it could be a nod to winter, or could be easier to film.  Either works for me!

[mariofish]

Is Randall bipolar? 

Milky Way candy bars are packaged and called Mars Bars in Canada.

I just can't get with Kate love. She just seems self absorbed and wallowing in self pity. It just gets old.

[ShadowFacts]

7 minutes ago, J-Man said:

But do we know WHY? It doesn't seem like they have that much of a relationship with Randall and his family.

Well, Rebecca was there for the birth of Tess, and we have seen that she and Randall do have a continuing close relationship -- at a visit when we might have first seen Miguel as her husband, she and Randall were chatting in the kitchen thick as thieves about his secretary or something. 

11 minutes ago, SueB said:

So, their ultimate path for full healing is to recognize that their Dad’s emotions overrode being prudent.  To get mad that he was thinking of saving little things versus valuing his own life, and then forgive him because he wasn’t a saint, he was just a good man.  THEN they can’t start to move forward.  Right now there is a part of them stuck on that hinge point. Until they recognize we’re some of there anger truly belongs and get over it, I think they’ll always have intense emotions they can’t put into perpective.  

I agree it was foolish for him to rush back into a raging inferno.  Very.  But I don't think that's what killed him.  I feel like his exposure to the smoke while getting everybody out, plus what they've described as the widowmaker i.e. blocked artery that was a ticking time bomb, was enough to do the damage to his lungs that caused his heart to stop.  I doubt they will ever get to a point of placing anger/blame on their dad who saved them.  This episode showed me that Rebecca and Randall have made strides in grief that Kevin and Kate haven't, so far.  Kevin is getting honest with himself and Kate apparently has this new person who makes her feel worthwhile, so that's progress, but I don't think they've been stuck on displaced anger.