Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[lucy711]

Maybe she has a lot of fluid?  I had a large baby (9 lbs) and only gained 20 pounds in total.  Some people also take eating for two literally!!  If she intends to have frequent blessings, I fear for what her body will look like in a few years!

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, lucy711 said:

Maybe she has a lot of fluid?  I had a large baby (9 lbs) and only gained 20 pounds in total.  Some people also take eating for two literally!!  If she intends to have frequent blessings, I fear for what her body will look like in a few years!

I don't think she'll bounce back from baby #1. Jill carried large, but she was all belly. The rest of her remained fairly slender. Joy is gaining all over and she's probably eating a steady diet of junk food. She seems to have a blase attitude towards everything in life, so I can't imagine she's being conscious about potential problems like gestational diabetes or preeclampsia. 

[Caracoa1]

Have the Duggars even heard of gestational diabetes or preeclampsia?

[toodles]

20 minutes ago, Caracoa1 said:

Have the Duggars even heard of gestational diabetes or preeclampsia?

Those conditions have too many syllables.  Way beyond the Duggar's knowledge base.  Now if could you have perpendicular, that would be another story.

[ariel]

Way too many syllables for doctor Jill medicine woman.

[Temperance]

1 hour ago, Caracoa1 said:

Have the Duggars even heard of gestational diabetes or preeclampsia?

Michelle had the later (pre-eclampsia) at least twice if not a few more times.  

Edited November 11, 2017 by Temperance
facts-checking

[GleamingMist]

Is pre-eclampsia a genetic thing?  Would the Duggar girls be more prone to it if Michelle had it?

[Arwen Evenstar]

24 minutes ago, GleamingMist said:

Is pre-eclampsia a genetic thing?  Would the Duggar girls be more prone to it if Michelle had it?

Perhaps our Doodlebug can weigh in on this. She’s awesome, so I’m sure she knows the right answer.

[floridamom]

I had pre-eclampsia with my second AND last baby. It appeared one week before he was born and never left me....26 years later....my doctor advised that this should be my last baby. I'm grateful for the two wonderful men I have as sons. 

I know how I felt with my blood pressure sky high and can't believe how reckless Michelle Duggar has been with her own health and body. That woman had children at home who (at that time) needed and should have depended on her. She let them down from the get go.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, floridamom said:

I had pre-eclampsia with my second AND last baby. It appeared one week before he was born and never left me....26 years later....my doctor advised that this should be my last baby. I'm grateful for the two wonderful men I have as sons. 

I know how I felt with my blood pressure sky high and can't believe how reckless Michelle Duggar has been with her own health and body. That woman had children at home who (at that time) needed and should have depended on her. She let them down from the get go.

Neither can I. I still can't believe how reckless Michelle is with her health and body, and her daughters. I know someone who died in childbirth. It was horrifying, shocking and incredibly sad. So was what came after. The husband never recovered. Her children ended up being raised by their grandparents. Three children growing up without their mother. Their father shows up every once in awhile he's tried therapy but he can't get passed it. Every time the Duggars mess up a delivery, or blow off prenatal care or even a competent midwife I think about that family. The Duggars talk about dying in childbirth as the ultimate glory. Its not its a tragedy. Does Jessa really think that Ben will be able to raise their sons on his own? About how he would react to her death? He was scared during Henry's birth. Does Jill really think Derick will raise their sons? He'll probably toss him to his mother or back to the Duggars before she's cold in the grave and split. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by andromeda331

[Lunera]

Most recent pictures of Joy. 

[ariel]

As Homer Simpson says

[flyingdi]

On 11/8/2017 at 8:46 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

And how will Joy adapt to having her romance time with husband curtailed due to mommy duties?  I wonder if if the ladies consider how all their honeymoon ends once they start with the babies.  I mean, to be so psyched to start taking care of a baby....you would think it's brand new.  Why? They've been doing it for most of their life.  I just don't get the rush and overexagerated excitement, to do something they've done their entire life, when presumably, the loving time is new to them.  Well, at least Jinger seems to get it. 

Why?  19 children never once curtailed Michelle's romance time.

[flyingdi]

After all the marriage is more important than the babies.  I believe Michelle and Jim Bob have actually stated this.

[GeeGolly]

I really don't think any of the girls, Joy included, realized the full responsibility of having children prior to having them. They sister-mommed together. They were children themselves. They had no financial responsibilities. The girls basically had live dolls that they dressed up and played with. Its so different having a human being who one is responsible for every minute of every day. 

[floridamom]

OMG, Joy already looks like she's a 'bad 30 year old' woman. It gets my goat every time I see those Duggar females suddenly wear tight shirts when pregnant. The loosely, ill-fitting shirts that bag over them when NOT expecting are what they should be wearing when they are 'in the family way'. Joy looks awful....she's already not the young woman Austin married...sorry to say.

[SunnyBeBe]

Can someone tell what the modest part is about a tight shirt and skirt when pregnant?  I mean, I know the skirt is long, but, how is that helping the situation?  lol  Just kidding.  They can wear what they want. I just think it's funny how the modesty speech is spewed, but, then, it only applies in certain situations. 

[riverblue22]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Can someone tell what the modest part is about a tight shirt and skirt when pregnant?  I mean, I know the skirt is long, but, how is that helping the situation?  lol  Just kidding.  They can wear what they want. I just think it's funny how the modesty speech is spewed, but, then, it only applies in certain situations. 

I was watching Love it or List it Too and one of the hosts, Jillian Harris, was hugely pregnant (she is very petite).  She wore beautiful loose dresses that did not cling to her shape.  It was such a contrast to those Duggar girls and their immodest tight shirts.

[kokapetl]

What is modest? Two shower curtains?

[Churchhoney]

6 hours ago, flyingdi said:

After all the marriage is more important than the babies.  I believe Michelle and Jim Bob have actually stated this.

It's a Gothard "principle" as well. 

I suppose on the argument that you've only got one marriage at a time (Gothardites may regret this, but there's the law and everything...) but you can have upwards of 20 kids simultaneously. So they're expendable. 

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I really don't think any of the girls, Joy included, realized the full responsibility of having children prior to having them. They sister-mommed together. They were children themselves. They had no financial responsibilities. The girls basically had live dolls that they dressed up and played with. Its so different having a human being who one is responsible for every minute of every day. 

Yep. And wait until the show ends and they actually get financial responsibilities. Another culture shock. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Churchhoney

[trimthatfat]

It is very hard to imagine Joy as a mother. During the wedding planning, she was shown being very indecisive and overwhelmed by small details. And bless her heart, but I can't see her homeschooling children. She just barely has a grasp on the English language as it is.

[Nysha]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I really don't think any of the girls, Joy included, realized the full responsibility of having children prior to having them.

I think this is true of just about everyone. I didn't become a parent until I was 28 when I adopted 3 kids from foster care, then 2 more 18 months later. I had to take parenting classes before getting them, plus I'm the oldest girl out of 6 and babysat for pocket money almost every weekend from 11 until 18.  I still didn't realize how hard it was to be a parent 24/7.

4 minutes ago, trimthatfat said:

And bless her heart, but I can't see her homeschooling children. She just barely has a grasp on the English language as it is.

Joy and the older kids at least got homeschooled, even if it was substandard. It looks like Jim Bob & Michelle totally gave up with the Howler boys & the Lost Girls. I can't imagine how hopeless it is going to be if/when those children homeschool their own children. 

[madpsych78]

I have a theory about the tight clothes. I think that the Duggars are too cheap to spring for maternity clothes so the clothes, particularly the tops that they wear, are loose when they are not pregnant or barely showing, and as they get bigger the shirts get tighter.

[Arwen Evenstar]

23 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

I have a theory about the tight clothes. I think that the Duggars are too cheap to spring for maternity clothes so the clothes, particularly the tops that they wear, are loose when they are not pregnant or barely showing, and as they get bigger the shirts get tighter.

I had wondered that myself. Michelle wore those hideous prairie frumpers with clown collars  for at least 15 or so of her pregnancies. They have plenty of room to accommodate the family way.

[SunnyBeBe]

I wonder, as we see more of the adult children's children grow up, when will the day arrive that at least one of them decides to get up in the morning, get the kid ready and take them to a school.  That way, they can have time to devote to the younger, non-school age children and do household chores too.  Anyone know if Anna is still homeschooling?  Not sure how that makes sense with so many. I mean, if you really think about it.  I"m not sure they really give it much thought. 

[lookeyloo]

16 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wonder, as we see more of the adult children's children grow up, when will the day arrive that at least one of them decides to get up in the morning, get the kid ready and take them to a school.  That way, they can have time to devote to the younger, non-school age children and do household chores too.  Anyone know if Anna is still homeschooling?  Not sure how that makes sense with so many. I mean, if you really think about it.  I"m not sure they really give it much thought. 

She might bring them to the TTH and have them thrown into the mix with the remaining lost girls and howlers

[sixlets]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Can someone tell what the modest part is about a tight shirt and skirt when pregnant?  I mean, I know the skirt is long, but, how is that helping the situation?  lol  Just kidding.  They can wear what they want. I just think it's funny how the modesty speech is spewed, but, then, it only applies in certain situations. 

Well, even though it's 2017, some folks may find wearing a shirt in public that reads "I fucked my *insert correct noun here*, and all I got was this bump" slightly offensive.  YMMV.

[ChiCricket]

17 minutes ago, sixlets said:

Well, even though it's 2017, some folks may find wearing a shirt in public that reads "I fucked my *insert correct noun here*, and all I got was this bump" slightly offensive.  YMMV.

Well, this led me down an internet rabbit hole, because I can't figure out what the shirt mentioned above would actually say. Didn't find that one, but I did find many maternity shirts I would never wear in public. Wow

Here's one I wouldn't mind donating to any of the Duggars:

Ps. Notice the Quiverful arrow on it ;-)

Edited November 12, 2017 by ChiCricket
More to say

[Lunera]

I think former fitting maternity shirts are cute on pregnant women but those tops are very long past the waist and Joy lives in jean shirts so it wouldn't look right. If the wore the loose fitting maternity shirts with her skirts she would look a frumpy mess that's why the Duggar girls stick to short tight shirts that cut off under to belly. She should really stick to empire waist dresses but Joy hates dresses.

[Fuzzysox]

1 hour ago, ChiCricket said:

Well, this led me down an internet rabbit hole, because I can't figure out what the shirt mentioned above would actually say. Didn't find that one, but I did find many maternity shirts I would never wear in public. Wow

Here's one I wouldn't mind donating to any of the Duggars:

Ps. Notice the Quiverful arrow on it ;-)

Sierra NEEDS one!

[Temperance]

1 hour ago, ChiCricket said:

Well, this led me down an internet rabbit hole, because I can't figure out what the shirt mentioned above would actually say. Didn't find that one, but I did find many maternity shirts I would never wear in public. Wow

Here's one I wouldn't mind donating to any of the Duggars:

Ps. Notice the Quiverful arrow on it ;-)

years of indoctrination would probably keep the Duggars or Bates from wearing this heathen t-shirt. However I have some heathen Catholics who deserve such a shirt and might like it!

[MamaMax]

7 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

It's a Gothard "principle" as well. 

I suppose on the argument that you've only got one marriage at a time (Gothardites may regret this, but there's the law and everything...) but you can have upwards of 20 kids simultaneously. So they're expendable. 

Yep. And wait until the show ends and they actually get financial responsibilities. Another culture shock. 

Ok don't hate me, but... I'm going to have to defend this a bit.

The idea that parents should put their relationship with one another as primary is not new, and it's not necessarily bad advice. Over the past few generations, the family has become more and more child-centered and parents have naturally kind of let their relationship take a back seat.  But without tending the relationship, it can easily break down. Without this central relationship as the glue, the family can fall apart. Also, when kids are grown and flown, the married couple may find they have drifted so far apart, they no longer have a strong connection.

I DO believe that the marriage/relationship between parents is central in a family and it needs to be cared for. And like the old saying goes, the best gift you can give your kids is parents who love each other.

Of course, things don't always work out the way we want, but I think the idea is being mis-characterized as "We only care about each other, the kids can go rot." WHich may be how Boob and MEchelle carry it out, but it's not what's meant.

[NotFundie]

Okay, coming out of long time lurkerdom.

I've bookmarked this forum and have been reading here for a long, long time.  I haven't bothered to register until today because all the comments are so interesting and funny that I didn't feel that I had anything to add.

Except for this one small opinion:  I think it's possible that Joy was pregnant on her wedding day (not that it matters or that I think that's bad in any way).  Remember the bridal salon day?  She kept melting down and calling Austin.  And every time they put her in a beautiful dress that fit perfectly, she was nearly in tears.  I think she was afraid that she might not be able to fit into it at her wedding if the waist wasn't loose.  Almost all of the formal wedding pictures have her holding flowers over her abdomen.  There's even a photo in Switzerland during her honeymoon with the arm held across her stomach posted on the duggarloversforever site.  

I have no idea how they managed to find alone time but -- good for them, if they did.  

Okay.  Back to lurkerdom.   :-)

[Fostersmom]

14 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I really don't think any of the girls, Joy included, realized the full responsibility of having children prior to having them. They sister-mommed together. They were children themselves. They had no financial responsibilities. The girls basically had live dolls that they dressed up and played with. Its so different having a human being who one is responsible for every minute of every day. 

I think Jana fully understands the responsibility of children. This could play no small part in her single status. Joy, not so much. She had plenty of sister-moms before her and Jana still at home now. I have a feeling she's going to be the least prepared out of all of them. 

[EVS]

15 minutes ago, NotFundamentalist said:

Okay, coming out of long time lurkerdom.

I've bookmarked this forum and have been reading here for a long, long time.  I haven't bothered to register until today because all the comments are so interesting and funny that I didn't feel that I had anything to add.

Except for this one small opinion:  I think it's possible that Joy was pregnant on her wedding day (not that it matters or that I think that's bad in any way).  Remember the bridal salon day?  She kept melting down and calling Austin.  And every time they put her in a beautiful dress that fit perfectly, she was nearly in tears.  I think she was afraid that she might not be able to fit into it at her wedding if the waist wasn't loose.  Almost all of the formal wedding pictures have her holding flowers over her abdomen.  There's even a photo in Switzerland during her honeymoon with the arm held across her stomach posted on the duggarloversforever site.  

I have no idea how they managed to find alone time but -- good for them, if they did.  

Okay.  Back to lurkerdom.   :-)

Interesting. I don’t watch the show but this makes me wonder.  Could the meltdowns have been caused by pregnancy hormones? 

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Joyless looks like she’s due any day. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 hour ago, NotFundamentalist said:

Okay, coming out of long time lurkerdom.

I've bookmarked this forum and have been reading here for a long, long time.  I haven't bothered to register until today because all the comments are so interesting and funny that I didn't feel that I had anything to add.

Except for this one small opinion:  I think it's possible that Joy was pregnant on her wedding day (not that it matters or that I think that's bad in any way).  Remember the bridal salon day?  She kept melting down and calling Austin.  And every time they put her in a beautiful dress that fit perfectly, she was nearly in tears.  I think she was afraid that she might not be able to fit into it at her wedding if the waist wasn't loose.  Almost all of the formal wedding pictures have her holding flowers over her abdomen.  There's even a photo in Switzerland during her honeymoon with the arm held across her stomach posted on the duggarloversforever site.  

I have no idea how they managed to find alone time but -- good for them, if they did.  

Okay.  Back to lurkerdom.   :-)

This kind of made me laugh because I was thinking something similar earlier  today. Not so much about Joy, but I was looking at some old photos over Mom's house since she has been putting together some albums, and maybe partly due to some of the speculation here, partly to my daughter's now-visible "bump", and partly because I was also a few weeks pregnant at my wedding I found myself trying to see whether there was any clue as to my own "situation" and how it might compare to others. I paid a lot of attention to the way my own abdomen looked, and found that in almost every photo the bouquet was covering my midsection. Which led me to wonder how much the development of the traditional bridal bouquet might have had to do with purposes of camouflage...

[bigskygirl]

The Duggars married daughters act like preteen giggly girls playing house with their husbands. Jinger may not be pregnant yet, but she still acts giggly with Jeremy and in awe of Jeremee because he is the first man outside JB and her brothers to give her the time of day. Sadly, Jill and Joy Anna remind me of teenage girls getting pregnant on purpose so someone will love them, but in reality, having a baby does not bring the happiness and joy the girl is desperately wanting to happen.

Edited November 13, 2017 by bigskygirl

[mythoughtis]

Joy is short. There is no where for the baby to go. I looked just like she does at the same point in my pregnancies.  I do not think Austin and she had premarital sex/ not that I would care if they did.  Austin got grief from Jim Bob because he and Joy, both being adults, dared to have a conversation after curfew.  When would they have been allowed enough alone time to go from 0 to 60 and where would this have happened? 

[ariel]

1 minute ago, mythoughtis said:

 When would they have been allowed enough alone time to go from 0 to 60 and where would this have happened? 

When there is a will, there is a way...

[Jynnan tonnix]

7 minutes ago, ariel said:

When there is a will, there is a way...

I just don't quite see any of them as having quite that much ambition and resourcefulness, but I guess sex can be quite a motivation...

[Catfin]

42 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

The Duggars married daughters act like preteen giggly girls playing house with their husbands. Jinger may not be pregnant yet, but she still acts giggly with Jeremy and in awe of Jeremee because he is the first man outside JB and her brothers to give her the time of day. Sadly, Jill and Joy Anna remind me of teenage girls getting pregnant on purpose so someone will love them, but in reality, having a baby does not bring the happiness and joy the girl is desperately wanting to happen.

See also: my stepdaughter.  25 with two little boys under age two. "Wonderful" baby daddy no where to be seen. Those poor little boys.

[queenanne]

3 hours ago, MamaMax said:

Ok don't hate me, but... I'm going to have to defend this a bit.

The idea that parents should put their relationship with one another as primary is not new, and it's not necessarily bad advice. Over the past few generations, the family has become more and more child-centered and parents have naturally kind of let their relationship take a back seat.  But without tending the relationship, it can easily break down. Without this central relationship as the glue, the family can fall apart. Also, when kids are grown and flown, the married couple may find they have drifted so far apart, they no longer have a strong connection.

I DO believe that the marriage/relationship between parents is central in a family and it needs to be cared for. And like the old saying goes, the best gift you can give your kids is parents who love each other.

Of course, things don't always work out the way we want, but I think the idea is being mis-characterized as "We only care about each other, the kids can go rot." WHich may be how Boob and MEchelle carry it out, but it's not what's meant.

No, I'm with you, and so are some secular people (I am pretty sure someone told me that Ayelet Waldman wrote it about her marriage to Michael Chabon, and quite a few Internet people went up in arms and declared her a selfish hussy ho only concerned about climbing on his johnson).  I think there's something to be said about the trickle-down effect of a healthy family coming from the parents on down, and also that it's not ideal to, for example, have a married couple who haven't had sex in multiple months' duration, because they fall into bed too tired after caring for the kids to do anything but sleep, or similar.  I doubt most of the practitioners of marriage-first take it to mean things like "if the house is on fire I'm saving you first and to hell with the kids" either.

[Dejana]

47 minutes ago, queenanne said:

No, I'm with you, and so are some secular people (I am pretty sure someone told me that Ayelet Waldman wrote it about her marriage to Michael Chabon, and quite a few Internet people went up in arms and declared her a selfish hussy ho only concerned about climbing on his johnson).  I think there's something to be said about the trickle-down effect of a healthy family coming from the parents on down, and also that it's not ideal to, for example, have a married couple who haven't had sex in multiple months' duration, because they fall into bed too tired after caring for the kids to do anything but sleep, or similar.  I doubt most of the practitioners of marriage-first take it to mean things like "if the house is on fire I'm saving you first and to hell with the kids" either.

But I think that is kind of how Ayelet Waldman phrased it, which is why people were so up in arms. Maybe she was just being extreme to make for a livelier editorial: the ideas that marriages need tending to succeed and for women, especially, not to solely define themselves as Mom, after becoming parents, aren't really all that outrageous. My biggest takeaway from the whole kerfuffle was mild shock to learn that Michael Chabon was married to a woman. 

Time generally tells with these things, but a Duggar daughter "anticipating the marriage" and having a ten pound "preemie" would be hilarious. I would love to see the spin, or tearful confessions about straying from the courtship model and giving into temptation. Twins would be interesting in a different way and also throw a fascinating wrinkle into the dynamic between the sisters. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Dejana

[Temperance]

Joy doesn't actually look that big to me.  

Putting your hands/arms in front of your stomach could also be a protective gesture of yourself if you weren't comfortable (even if the person wasn't pregnant).  So Joy who's always kind of in the background could shy about being the center of attention and put her arms somewhat defensively. 

On putting the marriage first; I'm not sure that was always intended as sexual as it is today. Putting the marriage first could mean a lot of different things. Such as siding with your spouse if they fighting with one of your kids or making decisions togethers that go against the kids' imput, or the two deciding how to spend money, etc.  Today it seems to be putting a movie on for the kid so you can make love for hours on end. Back when birth control wasn't as effective and chores took a lot longer to do, people had way less free time for sex. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Temperance

[ariel]

51 minutes ago, Temperance said:

 Today it seems to be putting a movie on for the kid so you can make love for hours on end. Back when birth control wasn't as effective and chores took a lot longer to do, people had way less free time for sex. 

I like today & I don't want to back to the past.

Edited November 13, 2017 by ariel

[MichaelaRae]

13 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

What is modest? Two shower curtains?

I understand where you're coming from but it's the double standard....when they aren't pregnant, they're all about the loose fitting clothes and double layer shirts that disguise every possible female curve. But then suddenly, the minute you're knocked up, the standard changes...You can't look at the various photos of the Dugger girls pre-pregnancy and during pregnancy and NOT see that the rules change?? THAT'S the problem.

[ChiCricket]

11 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

I understand where you're coming from but it's the double standard....when they aren't pregnant, they're all about the loose fitting clothes and double layer shirts that disguise every possible female curve. But then suddenly, the minute you're knocked up, the standard changes...You can't look at the various photos of the Dugger girls pre-pregnancy and during pregnancy and NOT see that the rules change?? THAT'S the problem.

They might as well go whole hog with a shirt like this.

[queenanne]

4 hours ago, Dejana said:

But I think that is kind of how Ayelet Waldman phrased it, which is why people were so up in arms. Maybe she was just being extreme to make for a livelier editorial: the ideas that marriages need tending to succeed and for women, especially, not to solely define themselves as Mom, after becoming parents, aren't really all that outrageous. My biggest takeaway from the whole kerfuffle was mild shock to learn that Michael Chabon was married to a woman. 

 

2 hours ago, Temperance said:

On putting the marriage first; I'm not sure that was always intended as sexual as it is today. Putting the marriage first could mean a lot of different things. Such as siding with your spouse if they fighting with one of your kids or making decisions togethers that go against the kids' imput, or the two deciding how to spend money, etc.  Today it seems to be putting a movie on for the kid so you can make love for hours on end. Back when birth control wasn't as effective and chores took a lot longer to do, people had way less free time for sex. 

Both are possibly true, but I always thought that people who objected, were objecting to those people who tend to turn themselves into slaves to their children.  We've all seen the type; those who hotly aver with lots of caps, and boldface, and exclamation points on message boards, that their child comes first, and always has, does, and will, no matter what the situation or circumstance; about which, I usually find myself thinking, "That poor husband." 

Again, I think this is perfectly healthy when it comes to things like "saving the kids from disaster".  When it comes to "things such as allowing the child to constantly interrupt the parents, instead of telling them that we will talk when I finish this conversation with your father/mother", and - well, I'll give a real-life example of "slaves to the children".  I went to a doctor's appointment a few weeks ago, and had to sit in the waiting room (it's a small waiting room.  Two of the four seats were taken up by charging electronic devices.  I had to perch on the end of one).  Two other people were present, one of them a preteen boy playing on a smartphone and listening to some loud hostile-sounding music.  When the mother exits the doctor's office and tries to tell the boy it's time to leave, the boy announces that he has to finish the level he's on in his smartphone game. 

At which point the mother, begins to pace aimlessly and neuteredly up and down the hall, waiting for the boy to finish the level on his video game.

Now, I'm all for actually asking and taking into consideration what your kids want, and not just treating them as parcels to be moved around in the mail.  I tried to imagine, for just a minute, a scenario where in the 1970s, my mother would have agreed to curtail her errand schedule and stand around at my leisure and pleasure, waiting for me to tell her when I was good and ready to go somewhere (because of course, that's what the scant four chairs in a tiny waiting room are for - for people who have finished their business, to surmount another level of Candy Crush.)  I thought to myself, "Here we are witnessing in the flesh, one of those fabled parents "raising kids to believe they are the center of the universe.  Sure, whenever you're good and ready to leave, kid." (When the mother exited the doctor's office, I grant that she apologized to me for owning one of the charging devices keeping me from having a full seat to myself.  Preteen didn't even acknowledge it.  While I do think there's a small modicum of room for "he shouldn't automatically be responsible for his mother's electronic devices"; by the same token, IMO, Mom absolutely should've said to Son when she entered the doctor's office, "You keep an eye out for if anyone wants this seat and move my phone."  If such a thing happened, which I doubt, she certainly never called him to attention for it.)  

Edited November 13, 2017 by queenanne

[Chicklet]

Oh my hot button and this is why we can't have nice things. I'm always shocked when a small child apologises for something or says "I'm sorry". Everyone is a special snowflake. I used to be wary of saying something to a child when they hauled off and smacked me or cheated at a game, no more. I now tell my friend's kids when they are out of line and let their parent know. Which gets me a lot of righteous indignation from some parents. "MY kid wouldn't do something like that" or "Why are you letting this petty shit get to you?". 

I hate that I agree with some portion of DuggarLife but they do have some of this correct. If your marriage is in the toilet, you are much less effective a parent. You just don't get to dry hump at mini-golf or let your teens raise your babies. That's the rule of a real grown up, Duggars.