Hillary Rodham Clinton: 2016 Democratic Presidential Nominee

[MulletorHater]

1 hour ago, BW Manilowe said:

The Hill Tweeted that Rush Limbaugh said George W. (Bush 43) & Laura Bush voted for Hillary today.

https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/796081618330984448?p=v

Stop the madness!  No fucking way!  I am SO loving this!

So, I guess they will be reviled as RINO's now.  Oh, wait...maybe it was witchcraft...

Work it, Hillary!

[NinjaPenguins]

Well, bless Dubya's heart; he finally did something positive for America.

[Silver Raven]

I read that the cemetery where Susan B. Anthony's grave is located is staying open late tonight to handle the crowds.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, BW Manilowe said:

The Hill Tweeted that Rush Limbaugh said George W. (Bush 43) & Laura Bush voted for Hillary today.

https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/796081618330984448?p=v

 

44 minutes ago, starri said:

I've thought Laura Bush would have voted for Hillary even if she wasn't against Trump.  Now that GWB is out of the White House and she's allowed to express her own opinions, it turns out she's kind of cool.  She's very pro-choice, and actually tried to talk him out of making opposition to gay marriage a centerpiece of his campaign in 2004.

 

And Chuck Todd just reported, according to the New York Times, they left the President vote "empty" and just voted down the ballot line. So basically, abstained.

1 minute ago, NinjaPenguins said:

Well, bless Dubya's heart; he finally did something positive for America.

Not according to the New  York Times he didn't.

[MulletorHater]

48 minutes ago, madmaverick said:

Good piece from The New Republic: The Truth About Hillary Clinton

I think that about sums it up in a nutshell.

Another piece from The New Republic that nailed it: Shame on Us, the American Media

Couldn't agree more.  Unfortunately, I'm not convinced things will be any different next time there's an election or a Trump figure around.

I was thinking about asking the mods or someone to start a Postmortem 2016 thread tomorrow morning.  I have been reading some really poignant and brilliant pieces today about the gross media malpractice in this election cycle.  Just the thought that Hillary wasn't running against a real candidate such as Dennis Kasich is offensive on so many levels.

We could describe the numerous ways corporate media really let the American people down.

[BW Manilowe]

Ana Navarro explains why she voted for Hillary (she's Republican). She also did a pretty damn good job of explaining why on The View today.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ana-navarro-voted-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-insult-supercut-945373

[NinjaPenguins]

Thanks for the correction, GHScorpio. I guess Dubya remains a net negative and hopefully the absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to who we elect president. Trump shouldn't feel bad - he's still the nadir of presidential nominees.

[clb1016]

1 hour ago, Coffeecup said:

I watched a Trump rally (Pennsylvania). He said "We'll bring the steelworkers' jobs back to Pennsylvania. It'll be just like it used to be."

Exactly HOW does he propose to make the U.S. steel industry "just like it used to be"? We lost the steel industry to China years ago. We have filed anti-dumping complaints against China for selling steel to American importers below cost, but those complaints take forever to work their way through the international trade red tape. Trump himself has used foreign-made steel in his buildings. Why didn't he put his money where his big mouth was, and buy American?

Moreover, one of the main reasons we lost so many American steelworker jobs is automation. Robots in U.S. steel factories do the jobs people used to do. (Same as in auto factories -- robotics are widely used for production and assembly.) Is Trump going to turn back technology too?

He has no plan to revive the American the steel industry. He is just telling his supporters what they want to hear, "I'll fix it just like it used to be." It's an empty promise. Hillary does not make up shit like that. She isn't promising people the moon.

Even worse is his promising to bring back coal mining.  Please, don't these people who've lost their livelihoods needs something real to give them hope, rather than fantasies?

[Landsnark]

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

Yikes.

First, I didn't know that  Joy pinched that from...

Not saying I hate you!  I hate what Joy Behar did so casually.  She's propagating the... well, lie... that Hillary Clinton is inherently untrustworthy and the equivalent liar as Donald Trump.  This branding-as-fact meme the right wing hammered home may prove to give the Presidency to Trump.  It's outrageous.
"Where there is smoke, there is fire."  Is only applicable where there is smoke.  From a fire.  The right wing invented their own fictions and repeated them as truths.
About 10 or 11 months ago we were having a very polite happy hour with another couple.  And the talk drifted into politics and the craziness of Trump and the absolute lack of viable Republican candidates.  Our friends are nice, wealthy, and he's a public servant, a fire chief.  I simply presume people who I like, or are like me, or I think are smart... are liberal and we share political viewpoints.
He casually remarked that Hillary Clinton was a witch and a liar.  Like, "Oh, I see you're wearing shoes."  I know the Benghazi accountability report backwards and forwards and the email thing was nascent.  So I asked him what she lied about, what specifically she lied about.  And he said "everything."  And a spring shot out of my head.  Something popped.  I'd had 3 wines at that point and I was entirely prepared to have come across that table and broken his jaw off his face, but the wives changed the subject and we said goodnight.
He's a smart, accomplished guy.  But he's also a low-to-no-information voter who is WILDLY biased so much so he warps reality to fit his prejudices.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Landsnark

[HumblePi]

10 minutes ago, MulletorHater said:

I was thinking about asking the mods or someone to start a Postmortem 2016 thread tomorrow morning.  I have been reading some really poignant and brilliant pieces today about the gross media malpractice in this election cycle.  Just the thought that Hillary wasn't running against a real candidate such as Dennis Kasich is offensive on so many levels.

We could describe the numerous ways corporate media really let the American people down.

Who is Dennis Kasich? Did you mean John Kasich from Ohio?

[HumblePi]

16 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

I read that the cemetery where Susan B. Anthony's grave is located is staying open late tonight to handle the crowds.

[HumblePi]

6 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I literally held my nose and voted for her today, only because I couldn't live with myself if I didn't do my part to ensure that Trump doesn't win.  I was looking forward to the first female President, just not this female.  I cannot stand the sight of her.  But if, by chance, she should lose, at least I can sleep tonight, knowing I did my part.  I feel better having gotten this off my chest.  Off to get a drink now.

One thing you can count on if she's elected. She'll instantly be iconic as the first United States woman president. She's not going to have it easy. She's going to be put under intense scrutiny at every turn. She'll be criticized, mocked, and accused of everything wrong and never, ever given credit for anything positive she does. She's going to have a hell of a time over the next four years. But I guarantee  one thing, she's not going to be sloppy, she's going to be focused and she's going to be one of the best U.S. Presidents in our history. The pressure is on her, but she's lived under scrutiny, condemnation and hatred for most of her adult life, she can deal with it and surmount it.

[inkworks]

20 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

Ana Navarro explains why she voted for Hillary (she's Republican). She also did a pretty damn good job of explaining why on The View today.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ana-navarro-voted-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-insult-supercut-945373

I love how when they're all giving her a standing ovation for her smack down of that idiot, Candace Cameron can't even bring herself to clap.

[NextIteration]

CCB is utterly detestable.  I don't get why The View has to have two conservative bible thumpers and a third conservative bullshitter (Jediblahblah).

Edited November 8, 2016 by NextIteration

[Keepitmoving]

I'm tired of having to change my channel because that weirdo Conway keeps popping up.

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

7 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

Love Bay View, spend lots of time there. Hope your back soon. I can't imagine living in a very red area. I grew up in Waukesha County; that was bad enough.

On-topic: Though I was initially a Bernie supporter, and not thrilled over Hillary, I will vote for her after work. The thought of a Trump presidency fills me with such dread. And I need to vote for Russ Feingold.

Not long after I moved here, I saw a guy open carry in Walmart..... Apparently, that's a thing that's done here. I was so confused. But everyone runs around leaving their keys in the ignition, because it's so safe..... I don't get it. I feel like I need to get back, at least to WI. It's home, you know? I might not make it all the way back to Milwaukee, but I'll try to get close.

On topic: I voted an hour and a half ago. I did my part as best I could. I can't stand that Orange Abomination.

[AmandaPanda]

Evening, all! As a reminder, our live chat of Election Night 2016 opens at 6:45 ET/5:45 CT. It can be found here. Grab your ice cream and wine and head on over!

[KerleyQ]

3 hours ago, Padma said:

Oh, that's an important one. That the Clinton's -- all of them-- take ZERO money from the Foundation. Also that it has an "A" rating (and uses 90% of the money for programs, not administrative overhead--another mixed up Republican accusation).

Also, there is NO evidence of "pay to play" at the State Dept, or that, as Trump says, she "sold favors for cash". He lies about that as about so many things (i.e. "she's a criminal"; "I opposed the war in Iraq before it began"; "no one respects women more than I do"; "I've given millions and millions to the vets", etc. etc.)

I laughed my ass off when I saw that their new "thing" is that Chelsea took money from the CF to pay for her wedding.  When that one gets proven completely and utterly false, will they start in on the grandkids next?  Will they say Charlotte's buying Girl Scout cookies through the foundation to be the highest seller in her troop?  (Side note:  It appears that Trump actually did pay for Shithead 1 or Shithead 2's Boy Scout registration fee from the Trump Foundation back in the day.)  

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

And Chuck Todd just reported, according to the New York Times, they left the President vote "empty" and just voted down the ballot line. So basically, abstained.

Not according to the New  York Times he didn't.

I'd be willing to bet that, at minimum, Laura voted for Hillary.  I think both likely did, but they won't publicly acknowledge it out of respect for the party or something.  I'm also willing to bet that both of their girls voted Hillary, as did Barbara.  (Barbara loves the Clintons to pieces.)  

[briochetwist]

4 hours ago, Coffeecup said:

I watched a Trump rally (Pennsylvania). He said "We'll bring the steelworkers' jobs back to Pennsylvania. It'll be just like it used to be."

Exactly HOW does he propose to make the U.S. steel industry "just like it used to be"? We lost the steel industry to China years ago. We have filed anti-dumping complaints against China for selling steel to American importers below cost, but those complaints take forever to work their way through the international trade red tape. Trump himself has used foreign-made steel in his buildings. Why didn't he put his money where his big mouth was, and buy American?

Moreover, one of the main reasons we lost so many American steelworker jobs is automation. Robots in U.S. steel factories do the jobs people used to do. (Same as in auto factories -- robotics are widely used for production and assembly.) Is Trump going to turn back technology too?

He has no plan to revive the American the steel industry. He is just telling his supporters what they want to hear, "I'll fix it just like it used to be." It's an empty promise. Hillary does not make up shit like that. She isn't promising people the moon.

He promised the same thing to Michiganders about the auto industry. No plan, just promises. 

[Keepitmoving]

How many electoral votes does CA have?

Or does it not matter?

Edited November 9, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[Moose135]

55, @Keepitmoving

[AliShibaz]

7 hours ago, NextIteration said:

This is true of coal as well.

So I didn't know what material the Javits Center ceiling was made of:

<snip>

 

Trump intends on replacing all the coal used with the vast store of Bullshit he has spewed out during the past twenty years.

[Guest]

Guys, I'm disgusted.

[Ohwell]

The Basket of Deplorables have spoken.  

Big mistake, Hillary.  Big mistake.

[ZaldamoWilder]

Congratulations Ameribama, you earned that.

[NewDigs]

6 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

The Basket of Deplorables have spoken.  

Big mistake, Hillary.  Big mistake.

While I agreed with her sentiment I was sorry she went there.

The whole "go high" thing.

Rubio made that mistake but lives.

It's a topsy-turvy world. (not comparing)

[WhitneyWhit]

I just want to apologize to Secretary Clinton, I am truly sorry that your thirty years of experience, your dedication, your intelligence, your sacrifices, your work on behalf of those who can't help themselves were deemed not worthy simply because you have a vagina. I'm sorry that you were even put into a position to have to prove your worth against a rabid, feral, neon orangutan.  I can only hope this won't stop you from fighting and that you will continue to give a voice to those who need it, and after last night, that list of people just a whole lot bigger.  I'm still with her and will continue to be with her.

[callmebetty]

16 minutes ago, WhitneyWhit said:

I just want to apologize to Secretary Clinton, I am truly sorry that your thirty years of experience, your dedication, your intelligence, your sacrifices, your work on behalf of those who can't help themselves were deemed not worthy simply because you have a vagina. I'm sorry that you were even put into a position to have to prove your worth against a rabid, feral, neon orangutan.  I can only hope this won't stop you from fighting and that you will continue to give a voice to those who need it, and after last night, that list of people just a whole lot bigger.  I'm still with her and will continue to be with her.

I agree .  please don't abandon us Hillary . 

[Danny Franks]

She was a bad candidate. Some of that was her fault, a lot of it was due to the hounding of the Clintons for the past twenty years. Seems like she couldn't inspire people to vote for her, as much as to vote against Trump.

Now it's time for her to retire from politics, and to let a new wave of progressive Democrats lead the party. 

[AliShibaz]

35 minutes ago, WhitneyWhit said:

I just want to apologize to Secretary Clinton, I am truly sorry that your thirty years of experience, your dedication, your intelligence, your sacrifices, your work on behalf of those who can't help themselves were deemed not worthy simply because you have a vagina. I'm sorry that you were even put into a position to have to prove your worth against a rabid, feral, neon orangutan.  I can only hope this won't stop you from fighting and that you will continue to give a voice to those who need it, and after last night, that list of people just a whole lot bigger.  I'm still with her and will continue to be with her.

I sympathize with you and I feel your pain. But why denegrate orangutans  that way? As a species, they are so much better and smarter than Rump ever was. That Chump never deserved to be compared to them. Surely, it would be more appropriate to compare him with animals like lice or fleas or rats etc.

Extermination is such a bad word. However, there are certain animals that I think big cities should exterminate - such like cockroaches and lice and the likes of Grump.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

The Basket of Deplorables have spoken.  

Big mistake, Hillary.  Big mistake.

Her opposition said far worse, more often and he won.

This has nothing to do with what Hillary did or said. It is about us as a country. 

44 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

She was a bad candidate. Some of that was her fault, a lot of it was due to the hounding of the Clintons for the past twenty years. Seems like she couldn't inspire people to vote for her, as much as to vote against Trump.

Now it's time for her to retire from politics, and to let a new wave of progressive Democrats lead the party. 

There is no candidate worse than Trump.

He won. 

 

Again, this is not about Hillary. 

Edited November 9, 2016 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Danny Franks]

1 minute ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Her opposition said far worse, more often and he won.

This has nothing to do with what Hillary did or said. It is about us as country. 

There is no candidate worse than Drumpf.

He won. 

 

Again, this is not about Hillary. 

I think you're making a mistake to put it all on Trump and his deplorables.

There was clearly a desire to see real change, and Trump offered it. Good change or bad, it didn't seem to matter to some. I've seen people who were interviewed say that at least he offered something new.

Yes, a lot of people liked his messages of division and bigotry. A lot of people have apparently been waiting years to be allowed to say what they really think about people with darker skin than theirs, and they should be called out for what they are. But not all of them. Some of the people who voted for Trump would have been reachable with a candidate who wasn't so easily painted as an establishment stooge. A lot of the people who voted for Johnson too.

As I've said in other threads, the Democrats need to learn from this and reshape themselves around their true progressive figures. Sanders, Warren and others need to inspire the same momentum for change that Trump has, but in a positive manner, instead of being regressive and divisive.

[ClareWalks]

I think the Trump supporters were so desperate for change (any kind of change) that they totally ignored the bad things about him. Ironic, because that's exactly what they accused Clinton fans of doing. I read that one dude who voted Trump said "he's not perfect, but he has a heart." WHAT. What the hell gave the guy THAT impression? See, people will ascribe whatever they want to the guy to justify voting him in.

[katha]

Clinton came with baggage, she was seen as part of the establishment and she doesn't have personal charisma for many people. That was always going to work against her. In hindsight, what should have been a worrying sign is that many thought "well, Trump is so horrible, somehow she'll win against him". That's...not a passionate endorsement for a candidate. Trump is a populist demagogue who knows how to play to a crowd, he's a performer. All these skits about Clinton "casually leaning on that wall, just as she rehearsed it for three weeks"? Yeah. Reaching people emotionally is important in elections, it shouldn't be the main aspect, but often it is.

Obama reached people emotionally. Yes, there's hatred for him. But people were always drawn to him as well, to the way he knew how to present his message and make it accessible and emotionally resonant. He's a populist and he won against Clinton in 2008, of course in a totally different context. I'd like to see how her ground game played out in 2016, if she repeated some of the mistakes of 2008.

Edited November 9, 2016 by katha

[Janet Snakehole]

15 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I think you're making a mistake to put it all on Trump and his deplorables.

There was clearly a desire to see real change, and Trump offered it. Good change or bad, it didn't seem to matter to some. I've seen people who were interviewed say that at least he offered something new.

Yes, a lot of people liked his messages of division and bigotry. A lot of people have apparently been waiting years to be allowed to say what they really think about people with darker skin than theirs, and they should be called out for what they are. But not all of them. Some of the people who voted for Trump would have been reachable with a candidate who wasn't so easily painted as an establishment stooge. A lot of the people who voted for Johnson too.

As I've said in other threads, the Democrats need to learn from this and reshape themselves around their true progressive figures. Sanders, Warren and others need to inspire the same momentum for change that Trump has, but in a positive manner, instead of being regressive and divisive.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree. This campaign was very positive in the end. They want change in the sense that they are afraid of positive change. They want the good ole days back. I like Warren and Sanders more than HRC, but this would have happened with them too at this point of time. This is a backlash to change.

[Danny Franks]

Just now, Janet Snakehole said:

I'm sorry, but I can't agree. This campaign was very positive in the end. They want change in the sense that they are afraid of positive change. They want the good ole days back. I like Warren and Sanders more than HRC, but this would have happened with them too at this point of time. This is a backlash to change.

It depends on how you see 'positive'. Being positive on Clinton as a candidate, and offering the change of being the first female president was not going to convince people who were hooked on the tales of the Clinton Foundation and her time in the Senate and State Dept. (most of which is trumped up nonsense, but it still carried weight). People just didn't see her as offering change so much as offering more of the same.

The deciding factor in this campaign was, I think, that Trump was able to paint Clinton as that. He didn't have enough racists or sexists to win without it. And echo chambers are solid enough now that, once you're locked into one, you aren't likely to get out of it. She needed something big to break people's opinion of her, and she didn't come up with anything.

[MulletorHater]

16 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

I think the Trump supporters were so desperate for change (any kind of change) that they totally ignored the bad things about him. Ironic, because that's exactly what they accused Clinton fans of doing. I read that one dude who voted Trump said "he's not perfect, but he has a heart." WHAT. What the hell gave the guy THAT impression? See, people will ascribe whatever they want to the guy to justify voting him in.

I know, right?  I was watching my local news this morning to get the weather and they interviewed some people outside the White House and Drumpf's new hotel.  One man admitted he was a Democrat, but he is a minister with very conservative moral values and he wanted a change and Drumpf represented his moral values.

I was so disgusted, I got out of bed and got in the shower.  I felt dirty after watching that man-in-the-street interview.  Do people even hear themselves sometimes?  I understand the desire to cross over to another party to vote.  But, please lose me with that "moral values" nonsense especially since Drumpf doesn't have any.

[partofme]

I think I'm done with this thread, I just don't understand how this happened and am so upset.  Our country is screwed.  I think this just proves that our country is sexist.  There's no way Trump could have won against a man and it's not fair.

Edited November 9, 2016 by partofme

[Princess Sparkle]

I'm not a big crier, but when I woke up and saw that Hillary lost, I burst into tears. I actually had to call my Mom for a pep-talk (and I'm almost 30....). But then while I was taking a shower, I thought about the best way to honor Hillary in this way forward. And to me, that's to hold my head high, kick-ass and be a boss-ass bitch, and continue to do good in the world and be more politically active than I was before - even if at the moment, it has to start with donating to causes I feel strongly about.  That is what's holding me together today. 

Edited November 9, 2016 by Princess Sparkle

[NewDigs]

I'm a big crier and have held it together pretty well until now.

The stages of grief.

Bill looks teary.

[rcc]

Hillary is giving a great speech right now. She is gracious and strong. Tim Kaine deserved the vice presidency. Hillary tried twice and I doubt she can win the presidency. If she couldn't defeat that clown, then it should be over. The emails, the Clinton Foundation, being a woman, whatever, it just seems fruitless to try again. She worked hard and tried her best but all for naught. "Fighting for what's right is worth it," she says. But, damn it, it didn't work for her.

[mojoween]

This Nasty Woman just cried at her gracious and beautiful speech.  She showed that it is possible to accept defeat with class.

Now I want to go behind the curtain so she can tell me what she REALLY thinks.

[NewDigs]

Great speech. 

Don't know how she did it.

Oh god, selfie photobomb.

[ruby24]

To me, the story of the election was that Democratic turnout was down. The Republican turnout did not go up and Trump got less votes than Romney. Hillary won the popular vote but got almost 7 million less votes than Obama did in 12 (and 10 million in 08!)

So there you have it. Democrats need an inspirational candidate above all else. Personality matters more than anything. Otherwise they are just going to stay home.

[madmaverick]

Just listened to Hillary's speech.  So gracious even though she must be so gutted inside.  To me, she represents good character, good values, and so much that all anyone would want in a dedicated public servant and in an inspiring female role model.  I think she would have been a great President.  I'm sorry that not enough Americans saw that.  In my opinion, America lost and lost big when they didn't choose her.  

[Pollock]

40 minutes ago, Princess Sparkle said:

I'm not a big crier, but when I woke up and saw that Hillary lost, I burst into tears. I actually had to call my Mom for a pep-talk (and I'm almost 30....). But then while I was taking a shower, I thought about the best way to honor Hillary in this way forward. And to me, that's to hold my head high, kick-ass and be a boss-ass bitch, and continue to do good in the world and be more politically active than I was before - even if at the moment, it has to start with donating to causes I feel strongly about.  That is what's holding me together today. 

You still have two days to buy this t-shirt!

https://www.omaze.com/made/nasty-woman?ref=nasty with the net proceeds going to a local plan parenthood. 
http://www.ppactionca.org/local-info/los-angeles/ 
Sadly, Samantha Bee doesn't come with it!

[madmaverick]

1 minute ago, ruby24 said:

So there you have it. Democrats need an inspirational candidate above all else. Personality matters more than anything. Otherwise they are just going to stay home.

I fear that in this self-absorbed celebrity age of shallowness and echo chamberness of social media, personality, maybe even a Big Personality matters more than ever before.  More than facts, more than policy, more than sober analysis.  Personality matters more than substance.  It's sad.  Political elections resemble more high school popularity contests and reality show contests. The electorate has been weaned on a steady diet of celebrity and reality shows over the years and they wanted a celebrity blowhard who entertained them more than a serious, sober policy geek.  People would rather elect someone less knowledgeable, less qualified, less competent with 'personality' than someone whom they felt was boring or unlikable or too smart (elitist?) for them.  If you ask me, Hillary is no more or less likable than someone like Angela Merkel- and personally, I think both are personable and embody steady, quality leadership.  I'm voting for a leader and for policy, not for an entertainer or someone to be my personal friend.  And I still wonder at that whole supposed likability question, I don't feel Hillary's been treated fairly on that either by the media or the electorate.

[Kitty Redstone]

Hate won.  I'm so sickened by this whole spectacle that it's time for me to tap back out of politics. 

I don't recognize this country.

[Bookish Jen]

35 minutes ago, madmaverick said:

I fear that in this self-absorbed celebrity age of shallowness and echo chamberness of social media, personality, maybe even a Big Personality matters more than ever before.  More than facts, more than policy, more than sober analysis.  Personality matters more than substance.  It's sad.  Political elections resemble more high school popularity contests and reality show contests. The electorate has been weaned on a steady diet of celebrity and reality shows over the years and they wanted a celebrity blowhard who entertained them more than a serious, sober policy geek.  People would rather elect someone less knowledgeable, less qualified, less competent with 'personality' than someone whom they felt was boring or unlikable or too smart (elitist?) for them.  If you ask me, Hillary is no more or less likable than someone like Angela Merkel- and personally, I think both are personable and embody steady, quality leadership.  I'm voting for a leader and for policy, not for an entertainer or someone to be my personal friend.  And I still wonder at that whole supposed likability question, I don't feel Hillary's been treated fairly on that either by the media or the electorate.

Yes, to everything in your post; I wasn't the biggest Hillary supporter (I initially supported Bernie) but I felt she could do the job without acting like a whiny orange baby. Trump? No way! He represents everything that is wrong in the current state of the USA, and not just in politics, but in media, business, entertainment, religion, etc.

We do not live in a culture of character; we live in a cult of personality.

Edited November 9, 2016 by Bookish Jen

[Spartan Girl]

We were so close to having a female president.  SO FUCKING CLOSE.

And yet the voters threw an experienced woman under the boss for a sexist, racist, manic con artist, because of a bunch of emails.  Fuck Comey and Weiner.