Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[kathe5133]

Bluntly, I think Josh Duggar, his parents, and his community have sacrificed their right to privacy on that subject.

They lost their right to privacy once they invited the cameras into their homes. Really, who does that? Now these poor girls have their business splashed all over and I am sure they had no say in the matter. Hindsight being 20/20, we all should have known they were wack jobs when they let the cameras in.

[Churchhoney]

From Homeschoolers Anonymous, which has some new pieces on ATI and is tracking some of the response to the Duggar implosion, especially from home schooling advocates:

 

"'Abuse' is the new 'racism.' As soon as you're accused of it, you're considered guilty." So says the head of the Home Educators Association of Virginia, who's come out swinging in defense of Josh (and thrown in a passionate defense of Gothard re his abuse allegations, for good measure.)

 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/heavs-rick-boyer-defends-josh-duggar-and-bill-gothard-claims-abuse-is-the-new-racism/

 

HA also reports that, while Kirk C hasn't spoken, his mentor Ray Comfort is boycotting TLC until they give up their egregious boycott of the Duggars. So there's that.

 

Also a couple of detailed pieces over there on ATI teachings on sex (including full text of a Wisdom Booklet) and the idea that it's everybody's fault but the perpetrator's -- in other words, how ATI may have helped Smuggar become so smug. Same old stuff, of course, but much more detail than I'd seen before. 

 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/atis-sex-ed-curriculum-silencing-victims-and-excusing-sex-crime/

[Literata]

Yes, I've read through it. It's pretty nauseating. Mostly just remarks on how he's effeminate and must be gay and har har 'fabulous' and how he hangs out with his brother in law, and the absolute worst, how he must be an abuser with the implied undertone being an abuser to children. It's disgusting. All this focus on mocking the person because of the suspicion he is gay due to not strictly adhering to dumb gender stereotypes instead of mocking the person for the the horrible, hateful philosophy he goes around supporting and preaching. Being gay isn't a choice. Being a hateful bigot is a choice. One is open to mockery, the other shouldn't be.

Reading through the thread again, what I'm getting is that absolutely no one has a problem with his sexual orientation, whatever it might be. The issue is that because Gothard considers homosexuality to be wrong, people who happen to be gay have no choice but to be alone or enter into unions with people who are heterosexual. I've made the point that if he is in fact gay but is trying to "pass" as straight, his doing so isn't fair to his family, unless Priscilla is in on the plan.

I've found absolutely no one here to be homophobic in any way, shape or form.

Mods, please feel free to move this if you need to.

[Chicklet]

Every day someone is digging into Gothards little coven. Now reports say that Hobby Lobby owners are the money behind Gothard and ATI. Consider me shocked, absolutely shocked at this turn of events. And he's just interested in scrapbooking, I'm sure!

[Skittl1321]

[Here is a quote from the site: "The Nashville, Tennessee Family Conference is held right after Memorial Day weekend – May 26-29. The late spring weather is usually temperate, and the location has 50% of the U.S. population within 600 miles!" what an odd thing to say.]

 

I just can't even begin to discuss the situation, so I'm going to discuss the fluff:

Things like that are usually used by conferences to show how easy it is to get to the location. 

I've seen that on decidedly non-fundie conferences, and on conference location submissions. A conference is more likely to be awarded to an area a huge portion of the population can drive to easily.

[ChiCricket]

I just want to say to anyone posting or just reading these forums that have been through any kind of sexual abuse, that I am so, so sorry that happened to you.

Just please know NONE of any of it was your fault in any way. I just felt like I needed to say this, after reading all these posts for days and days.

They have brought me to tears. I am shocked to my core at how many people here have experienced this. {{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}

[floridamom]

Hello again everyone...I've been moving back to my beloved Florida....and now this with the Duggars....Are we actually concerned that Anna, out in DC, would receive no help after her baby is born? Where is HER MOTHER, Mrs. Kellar? Traditionally, (with Michelle as the exception), the new mother's mother comes over and helps out for a few weeks, if they can, and we all know that Mrs. Kellar isn't employed and has only the sons at home who are grown up enough to look after themselves for a short time with their father...Sooo, why does it have to be the "jslaves" who always have to clean up after everyone else? Anna;s family should step up to the plate, (Mrs Kellar, I'm looking at YOU) and help her own daughter out....JMHO

[humbleopinion]

TLC must remove all the Duggars from their programming.

Shoving the Jill/Dill and Benessa  front center only lines the pockets of their parents and trickle down to Josh/Anna.

No Michelle, JimBob,Josh, Anna to ever cross my TV.

Pixelate them and bleep their narratives.

 

No revictimization of the girls who continue to live this nightmare.

Let them and the younger ones have private lives.

 

Social media will organize and flood TLC and any sponser stupid enough to hitch their wagon to this show with messages to stop this shameful exploitation.

[Honey]

Which season and what episode is this Erin Hill episode?

Erica Hill.  It's the last episode of this season.

[ms.o]

Could the former trooper be charged for not properly investigating this? I mean, the punishment will hardly matter for Trooper Hutchens since he's in prison for 56 years anyway. But in general, is what he did wrt Josh Duggar considered a crime?

yes, in arkansas it is considered a misdemeanor. I do not see Washington County pursuing it, but it could happen. Missouri has similar laws and I've only see one person charged with it in my county. Which is stupid, but that's an entirely diff thing!

If interested, here is the link of mandated reporter information for every state http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/Mandatory%20Reporting%20of%20Child%20Abuse%20and%20Neglect-nov2012.pdf

[Swedee]

 

While I am not exactly experiencing schadenfreude about this situation as much as disgust, I have a myriad of political and personal reasons for wanting Josh and his parents taken down (and hypothetically always did, whether or not this awful situation occurred) which have risen exponentially with every bit of exposure I've had to this Gothard evil and how it grooms young girls to be perfect victims of sexual abuse and every other example of how their family structure and belief system reduce females to brood mare status.

You have hit the nail on the head for me. I always had this thought in the back of my head that this family was the perfect breeding ground for victims. I can't stand Josh, JB or Michelle but I'm so sad for the girls. I hope that they can at least comfort each other - we know no one else will!

[Bella]

Just FYI, we're not hiding the posts questioning use of TFDW for David Waller.

 

If you don't raise issues and questions with us, we don't know that they're there. So thanks for noting this. In the future, just ask if something can be changed, and we'll address this.

 

Some posters get notifications when they're quoted. FTR, I quoted about 5 or 6 of you in one post of my own, then I hid my post. I'll be taking that post to the other mods for discussion, because it consolidates the various points you made about this. But it doesn't serve any purpose in terms of general discussion, which is why it's hidden. (Confusing? Sorry.)

[doodlebug]

Could the former trooper be charged for not properly investigating this?  I mean, the punishment will hardly matter for Trooper Hutchens since he's in prison for 56 years anyway.  But in general, is what he did wrt Josh Duggar considered a crime?

 

Depends on the statute of limitations for that offense.  If it is 3 years, like it was for Josh' crime, then it is too late.  The cops were told about it when Jim Bob came in for questioning, but that was more than 3 years after the fact.  The trooper, as a law enforcement officer, is a mandated reporter, meaning he was legally obligated to report the molestation to the proper authority to deal with it.  He didn't, but that is only a misdemeanor anyway.  Considering the guy is already in prison for 50+ years on multiple felonies, it wouldn't be pursued even if the statute hasn't run, which it probably has. 

 

If nothing else, I hope this story spurs Arkansas and any other states, to extend the statute of limitations on child molestation to at least 3 years beyond the victim's 18th birthday.  We've heard again and again how adults have let down the kids in these situations all too often.  Let's at least give some of these children the chance to get justice as adults.

[Mrsjumbo]

I don't think they should continue the show, even without Josh & family, JB & M. Those kids never got a choice whether to be on tv or not. I would hate to see them again given no voice. Does anyone really think JD or Jana want to continue with the charade?

[autumnh]

From Homeschoolers Anonymous, which has some new pieces on ATI and is tracking some of the response to the Duggar implosion, especially from home schooling advocates:

 

"'Abuse' is the new 'racism.' As soon as you're accused of it, you're considered guilty." So says the head of the Home Educators Association of Virginia, who's come out swinging in defense of Josh (and thrown in a passionate defense of Gothard re his abuse allegations, for good measure.)

 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/heavs-rick-boyer-defends-josh-duggar-and-bill-gothard-claims-abuse-is-the-new-racism/

 

HA also reports that, while Kirk C hasn't spoken, his mentor Ray Comfort is boycotting TLC until they give up their egregious boycott of the Duggars. So there's that.

 

Also a couple of detailed pieces over there on ATI teachings on sex (including full text of a Wisdom Booklet) and the idea that it's everybody's fault but the perpetrator's -- in other words, how ATI may have helped Smuggar become so smug. Same old stuff, of course, but much more detail than I'd seen before. 

 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/atis-sex-ed-curriculum-silencing-victims-and-excusing-sex-crime/

 

 

I literally mumbled STFU about 25 times when I read that article. Reading all of the posts defending this makes me feel like I am living in some alternate universe. I am speechless at the amount of people who will go to the ends of this earth defending this deplorable, horrific behavior.

[Almost 3000]

Which season and what episode is this Erin Hill episode?

 

 

I thought the gender reveal was number 21. It seems Digging with the Duggars isn't on Xfinity, but it's available on Amazon. Good thing I have some free promo codes available so I don't have to pay up.

Its on yt: 19 Kids And Counting | Season 10 Episode 21 | Digging In With the Duggars | May 19, 2015

[CofCinci]

AKA "the last episode ever."

Edited May 25, 2015 by AmandaPanda
removed illegal link

[Zung Li]

In all the recent pictures that I've seen on this board the women are showing their knees and wearing fitted shirts, etc. I've never watched this show (beyond the original special) but I thought they were chest binding, ankle-hiding types based on reading this thread and the comments about defrauding and modesty and all of that.

[NextIteration]

AKA "the last episode ever."

 

From your keyboard to TLC's boardroom. ;)

[Fuzzysox]

Reading through the thread again, what I'm getting is that absolutely no one has a problem with his sexual orientation, whatever it might be. The issue is that because Gothard considers homosexuality to be wrong, people who happen to be gay have no choice but to be alone or enter into unions with people who are heterosexual. I've made the point that if he is in fact gay but is trying to "pass" as straight, his doing so isn't fair to his family, unless Priscilla is in on the plan.

I've found absolutely no one here to be homophobic in any way, shape or form.

Mods, please feel free to move this if you need to.

Thanks for saying this.

I don't think we make fun of David but we do point out how messed up Gothard's teachings are. How many kids have committed suicide because their religion teaches them that being gay is wrong. We need to put an end to that. Even our Catholic Pope Francis sees the importance of acceptance.

I can't even with Gothard, a man who makes shit up and the followers become completely braindead!?!?

[kandinski]

Its almost like that interview episode was a goodbye to the duggars,complete with tlc allowing the negative comments from the street interviews.

[JenCarroll]

 

I recognize this is a post that will likely be hidden but I just can't stand this anymore and am genuinely saddened that this sort of behavior persists outside of the Duggar cult.

You're doing an enormous disservice to our moderators. They welcome respectful (or at least civil) disagreement, although they do usually do prefer it take place on the appropriate thread.

[Marigny]

Just thought of something that makes my heart sink even more: The Duggar's did and do a lot of traveling. Most of the time, they bunk at friends houses, not hotels or bus/RV parks. This would have allowed a whole lot of intermingling with girls outside of the family. My gut feeling is that there are more victims that weren't included in the police report. Couple that with the fact that it is high political season, I would not be surprised if this turns into a scaled down version of the Cosby Chronicles.

[CofCinci]

Just thought of something that makes my heart sink even more: The Duggar's did and do a lot of traveling. Most of the time, they bunk at friends houses, not hotels or bus/RV parks. This would have allowed a whole lot of intermingling with girls outside of the family. My gut feeling is that there are more victims that weren't included in the police report. Couple that with the fact that it is high political season, I would not be surprised if this turns into a scaled down version of the Cosby Chronicles.

They planned accordingly during travel.

[autumnh]

AKA "the last episode ever."

 

We can only hope! ugh

[Ljohnson1987]

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/josh-duggar-makes-joke-about-dating-siblings-in-old-19-kids-clip-2015255

 

Smuggar jokes about siblings dating.

[truthtalk2014]

Um, I'm hoping you mean because Josh is fully forgiven and redeemed in Gothard's world, and not implying any similarities between TFDW's (suspected) issues and Josh's? (Genuinely hoping and assuming, but reading it really startled me as a comparison!)

Absolutely not implying the TFDW has any issues that Josh does.  Only snarking on the two of them and their always present love fest. 

[becca3891]

In all the recent pictures that I've seen on this board the women are showing their knees and wearing fitted shirts, etc. I've never watched this show (beyond the original special) but I thought they were chest binding, ankle-hiding types based on reading this thread and the comments about defrauding and modesty and all of that.

You raise an interesting point. They are as obsessed about defrauding and modesty as they ever were. And they do say that their skirts are always supposed to cover the knee, and that their shirts are supposed to not be too tight or low cut. But I'd agree that they push the envelope with both those things. They are completely blind to the fact that their modesty standards are arbitrary, and that by nature of being human beings, they will certainly "defraud" people every day. It's almost like, to them, as long as you follow Gothard's magic but highly arbitrary formula, you're safe from defrauding.

 

But it's also true that the infamous "church elders" had a conference about how young women needed to perhaps bind their chests and wear looser shirts after Josh confessed that tight blouses were what caused him to molest the victim not in the family. Ugh.

[Quilt Fairy]

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/why-the-duggar-abuse-investigation-end

 

From the msnbc website where a lawyer reviewed the Arkansas statutes and says the SOL really ran out in 2013, not 2006.

[RazzleberryPie]

The Duggars are listed as attending by VIDEO, so not actually attending the conference. Not sure if that is a change since you saw the site.

[Here is a quote from the site: "The Nashville, Tennessee Family Conference is held right after Memorial Day weekend – May 26-29. The late spring weather is usually temperate, and the location has 50% of the U.S. population within 600 miles!" what an odd thing to say.]

I attended a work related conference in Columbus, OH, once, and they said the same thing. I guess that geographic stat is true of just about any mid-western (geographically, not culturally) city in the US.

 

The Erin HIll episode is this season, and it is number 21 on the On Demand list.

On Demand has finally removed all the 19 Kids episodes this morning, at least on my provider.

 

Here's a post about the possible future of the show.

 

http://www.tmz.com/2015/05/23/19-kids-and-counting-josh-duggar-molestation-scandal-tlc-jill-jessa/

Jim Bob and TLC are not going to eliminate a cash cow unless forced. I think many of us predicted that things would be shifted to the adult kids, soon.  I don't want to see any of them if Jim Bob, Michelle, or Josh are around.

 

Bluebonnet, if you read through the "Sweet Fellowship" thread, I think that might help you understand the feelings many of us share about TFDW. I can't think of anyone here who would make fun of anyone on the basis of sexual orientation.

Personally, I call David Waller 'Fabulous' or 'Flamboyant', because he IS. Gay, straight, asexual, whatever, he is flamboyant. Not to admonish anyone else or be sanctimonious, but I really have tried hard to refrain from calling him gay or 'acting' gay, because he says he is straight. 'Gay' is not an insult. I actually feared, that due to David's beliefs, that any perception of him being 'unmanly' would reflect on Priscilla. All the burden would be placed on her, and for all his actions, IMO, he has an underlying cruel streak. Something is 'off' with Priscilla (not sure if she's just trying too hard to be The Perfect Christian Wife and Mother, or if she's limited, or if the brainwashing is just too much, or if she's struggling with hiding some major secrets), and I would hate to see her as the recipient of spiritual, verbal or even physical abuse, because her husband is flamboyant.

 

How would everyone feel about all this if Josh were a sweet, respectful and humble man?  I think it would make a big difference to me.  The fact that his so clearly unrepetentant is one of the main reasons I hate this man so much at this moment, and cannot simply chalk it up to being a teenage indescretion.  

 

You hit the nail on the head. If Josh wasn't so smug, condescending and if his apology wasn't all about him - but about the damage done to his ministry, the victims, the source of income for everyone associated with the show (Duggars, crew, etc.) then I would have much more sympathy.

 

It's not just you. I think cults both attract and, probably, mold (certainly encourage) control freaks and the power obsessed. And since sex offenses are primarily about power and control -- voila. Ugly stuff, and we aren't nearly aware enough of these dynamics. I mean, we KNOW this, but we seem to forget it again and again.

Absolutely. 

 

In all the recent pictures that I've seen on this board the women are showing their knees and wearing fitted shirts, etc. I've never watched this show (beyond the original special) but I thought they were chest binding, ankle-hiding types based on reading this thread and the comments about defrauding and modesty and all of that.

Within the past 2-3 years (after Josh left the house and the older girls were promoting their books), they've become much, much more stylish and contemporary. Still modest, but more mainstream than the homemade flowered prairie dresses with huge peter pan collars. They still talk about modesty 24/7 and how they're so much more modesty than every one else. 

 

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/josh-duggar-makes-joke-about-dating-siblings-in-old-19-kids-clip-2015255

 

Smuggar jokes about siblings dating.

That's nauseating. I don't know how Jessa didn't punch him in the face everytime he entered the room.

[flyingdi]

Where did the chest binding stuff come from? I have never once heard that the Duggars make their daughters do this.

[RazzleberryPie]

Absolutely not implying the TFDW has any issues that Josh does.  Only snarking on the two of them and their always present love fest. 

I agree. Absolutely NOT the same 'issues.' Unlike Michelle, we know the difference between possible attraction to adult males (David) and child molesting, incestuous, perverted fiends (Josh). The only personality trait those two share is a Massive Ego.

Where did the chest binding stuff come from? I have never once heard that the Duggars make their daughters do this.

Someone above posted a snippet of a web post, no idea of the original source or truthfulness, that said some men in her church (the Duggar's 2002 church) had issue with teen girls showing too much chest. They met with the dads and said they needed to cover and bind. I don't recall ever hearing the Duggars say their girls needed to bind anything, either. Cover from neck to knee, no pants, always sleeves, is pretty much it. 

[Ilovemylabs]

I'm sorry to be the wet blanket here, but I wish this whole TFDW thing would stop as I've read the list in the 19 Questions Thread and the explanation of how TFDW came about and it's clear that this is a term used for mockery.  One, being gay isn't something to be mocked, no more than having red hair or being left-handed.  It's no ok to mock gay people.  Two, so much of the criticism against the Duggars over the years have been their strict adherence to gender stereotypes, so it makes little sense that the fandom would mock a person for not strictly adhering to a specific gender behavior.  shame shame shame.  Raginging about Waller's stance on the LGBTQIA community is one thing.  Mocking him for the suspicion that he's gay is shameful.  

 

I recognize this is a post that will likely be hidden but I just can't stand this anymore and am genuinely saddened that this sort of behavior persists outside of the Duggar cult.  

I totally agree.  I have posted similar sentiments here and the moderators have posted them.  Sometimes the speculation and comments and snark I find on this site are truly egregious, although the moderators do step in and try to clean things up.  More power to them, and thanks. The thing I find most disgusting about this whole situation is that I think (MY SPECULATION)  the Duggar family, especially the victims had come to terms with what happened and had achieved a peace with it.  Now everything is all dredged up again and those girls are re-victimized.  Jana looks sad... things Jinger, Jill, or Jessa say now make so much sense... they should have had professional therapy so they could heal properly...you can tell by their body language... really?  By what authority do you make those statements?  Let the show end and let this go.  I am over with this gossip fest where posters gleefully shout 'HYPOCRITE' and 'They're fame whores who will do anything for money.'  Let me make it clear that I abhor what happened and have nothing but sympathy for the victims.  It was criminal.  But I am tired of and disgusted by the poorly hidden joy at the downfall of the Duggar clan.

[3 is enough]

 

Just thought of something that makes my heart sink even more: The Duggar's did and do a lot of traveling. Most of the time, they bunk at friends houses, not hotels or bus/RV parks. This would have allowed a whole lot of intermingling with girls outside of the family. My gut feeling is that there are more victims that weren't included in the police report. Couple that with the fact that it is high political season, I would not be surprised if this turns into a scaled down version of the Cosby Chronicles.

Excellent point.  My other fear is that as he got bolder, he was not satisfied with just fondling the girls.  While I do think this is just the tip of the iceberg, I also think that given the culture any victims were raised in, most will never come forward.

Edited May 25, 2015 by 3 is enough

[Higgins]

Look, there is no excuse for what he did but, he was a repressed child. Almost like imprisoned. He didn't have the reasoning of an adult. I don't think his acts as a child mean he is an adult pedophile. Adolescents are not held to the same legal standards as adults for a reason. All of these kids are victims of emotional abuse and brainwashing, including Josh.

[jschoolgirl]

Its almost like that interview episode was a goodbye to the duggars,complete with tlc allowing the negative comments from the street interviews.

Do you mean the "Digging In" episode? I watched it last night and did not street interview comments.

Edited May 25, 2015 by jschoolgirl

[Chicklet]

I haven't read any real JOY about the pain this family is going through. But if you live by hypocrisy you suffer through hypocrisy. It's repudiation of the Duggars' and their twisted theocracy which hurts their own children most as well as anyone else they can drag into this cult.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Chicklet

[CherryAmes]

But I am tired of and disgusted by the poorly hidden joy at the downfall of the Duggar clan.

 

I am not a regular poster here so perhaps I am not seeing something that is obvious to others but what I am seeing I don't think is joy. People have long been disgusted by the lifestyle the Duggars represent and support and are glad that it's finally been shown up for what it is.  I see a lot of anger being expressed here but also a lot of compassion for the true victims, and those victims are not Josh Duggar and his parents!

[Quilt Fairy]

I was googling around looking for more information about the "trial' and came across this article from Arkansas Online:

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2015/may/22/oldest-of-tv-s-19-kids-admits-to-wrongd/

Edited May 25, 2015 by AmandaPanda
quoting outside comments

[jschoolgirl]

Episodes have been taken off On Demand in HD, but they are still there for non-HD. I'm in D.C., if that makes any difference.

[Julia]

The Duggar clan, led by a politician and well connected in the sphere of politics, have presented themselves for over a decade as spokespeople and role models for their lifestyle and beliefs. They've used that platform to become lobbyists for government action on behalf of the way they think the world ought to be run, all of it on behalf of "family".

 

Finding out that they flagrantly violated not only their own professed ethics but the laws that already exist to protect the family is, JMO, notable. Jim Bob et ux aren't just making bad decisions on behalf of their own family. They're attempting to make them for mine. 

 

And I would very much appreciate it if folks would specifically address with the mods anyone here who they see harming the Duggar children and not make it part of a general accusation.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Julia

[BitterApple]

Look, there is no excuse for what he did but, he was a repressed child. Almost like imprisoned. He didn't have the reasoning of an adult. I don't think his acts as a child mean he is an adult pedophile. Adolescents are not held to the same legal standards as adults for a reason. All of these kids are victims of emotional abuse and brainwashing, including Josh.

I don't either. My hope for Josh is that he gets the treatment he should have received as a teenager.

[GEML]

I've never thought the Duggars did chest binding. If anything, our comments have been that they could use a well fitting bra and wore shirts so tight they were NOT modest recently.

Classic modest in most Fundamentalist is pretty standard - to the knees, to the collarbone, to the elbow. Obviously, the Duggars weren't the most "modest" by any means in this regard, and haven't been even close for years now.

[Aw my lahgs]

Look, there is no excuse for what he did but, he was a repressed child. Almost like imprisoned. He didn't have the reasoning of an adult. I don't think his acts as a child mean he is an adult pedophile. Adolescents are not held to the same legal standards as adults for a reason. All of these kids are victims of emotional abuse and brainwashing, including Josh.

 

 

While all those kids are raised in a terrible environment and subject to brainwashing and oppression, this is not an excuse to become a child molester. Plenty of boys and girls are raised the same way without becoming sexual predators. Also, it is true that teens are held to different legal standards because teens tend to do stupid things ;). In my opinion, this does not apply to molesting multiple young children over a period of years!

 

Please read this article, it is a great article on child molesters. Spot on.  http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/1707466/jewish/Things-You-Need-to-Know-About-Child-Molesters.htm

 

Pedophiles and child molesters often start in their teens.

[BostonBlonde]

Here is a comment from "concernedmom" on a blog from 2005.

 

...A few years ago ... the men of the church were meeting after church to discuss my friends teenage daughters apparel. They felt like their blouses were to tight and they should bind their chest up more, go figure. At the same time the son of one of these political men was touching one of my friends teenage daughters in a sexual way as she slept. This was found out and apologies were made although the boy was tempted by the girls tight blouses(lol). The boy was sent to one of the training centers to be punished??? My friends did not return to the home church for quite sometime after this. At this same time, the boy mentioned earlier was betrothed to a girl in the the group, both were 14 at the time. The betrothal was broken by the boys actions. ... Just this last year the family of the young man mentioned before was highlighted on the Discovery Channel, at the time they had 14 children and were about to have another and the mom was receiving a mother of the year award from our governor. Since that time the same boy was betrothed again to the same girl. He was working very hard on a campaingn for U.S. Senate for the girls father. The father lost the campaign. He immediately began looking for “sin in the camp”, as that could be the only explanation for the loss. He found that the young man betrothed to his daughter, had committed sexual sins(?) while on the campaign trail. The young man, now 16, was made to stand in fornt of the church and confess his sin. He was then told that the campaign was lost due to his sin. The weight of the world on this poor boys shoulders. I do not know what punishment the church gave but I do know that it was harsh enough for his mother to seek advise outside of the “group”, but she did eventually give in to her husband and the group. The young man and young girls betrothal is now broken. I am I nuts to see this as abuse? And what do you think can be done?

 

Wow just wow. 

 

 

Look, there is no excuse for what he did but, he was a repressed child. Almost like imprisoned. He didn't have the reasoning of an adult. I don't think his acts as a child mean he is an adult pedophile. Adolescents are not held to the same legal standards as adults for a reason. All of these kids are victims of emotional abuse and brainwashing, including Josh.

 

Leave your kids alone with him...see if you feel the same.

Edited May 25, 2015 by BostonBlonde

[NCChic]

Looks like May 26-29 there's an ATI conference in Nashville. The Duggars a featured speakers. I made screen grabs of the program flyer, in case they vanish. The Bateses and Wallers are going to be there too.

I'm rapidly losing faith in humanity. I'm sure they'll go and be welcomed with opened arms.

http://familyconferences.org/

Oh, no. I'm scheduled to be in Nashville this week for a conference as well (definitely not this one). Good thing I packed a couple of maxi dresses and skirts..... Edited May 25, 2015 by NCChic

[Lurking Amanda]

Look, there is no excuse for what he did but, he was a repressed child. Almost like imprisoned. He didn't have the reasoning of an adult. I don't think his acts as a child mean he is an adult pedophile. Adolescents are not held to the same legal standards as adults for a reason. All of these kids are victims of emotional abuse and brainwashing, including Josh.

 

I get that, and at the outset of the recent revelations that was actually somewhat my point of view.  I felt some (admittedly quite limited) sympathy for Josh, although the lion's share of it was reserved for the victims.  Then I realized that the youngest assumed victim would have been five.

 

Five.  My niece is almost five.  Josie is five.  Five.

 

There is just no way to spin that into curiosity, experimentation, playing "doctor", or anything other than molestation.

---------------------------------

Regarding any joy displayed at the downfall of the Duggar clan, I haven't seen that here.  I'm not saying no one here has expressed such thoughts, but if so they are by far in the minority to the point where I have zero recall.  I've certainly seen it on Facebook, but here in this particular forum I've only seen an overwhelming regret that this happened.  No one wanted exposure of the Duggars' hypocrisy to happen in such a fashion, not even for the sake of being "right".

Edited May 25, 2015 by Lurking Amanda

[elainebenis]

TBH, I've been more than a little surprised by how form-fitting the pregnant girls clothing has been. Shirts stretched tiiight over their baby bumps. And boobies.

 

Now, out in the real world this wouldn't raise an eyebrow; but with all the female-modesty-defrauding crap the Duggars regularly spew I can't reconcile how THEY reconcile their professed beliefs with their actions.

[backformore]

Look, there is no excuse for what he did but, he was a repressed child. Almost like imprisoned. He didn't have the reasoning of an adult. I don't think his acts as a child mean he is an adult pedophile. Adolescents are not held to the same legal standards as adults for a reason. All of these kids are victims of emotional abuse and brainwashing, including Josh.

True enough. I have worked with families where some inappropriate sexual contact took place between siblings. The proper thing to do is to limit ALL unsupervised contact between the perpetrator and victims. The offender might stay with a relative during the week, for example. Or at least be with an adult after school. Where the Duggars went wrong was not making sure Josh never was in a position to abuse again. But you are right. A pedophile is an adult whose primary sexual attraction is to children. Josh' s behavior as an adolescent makes him a sex offender, a molestor, but not necessarily a pedophile. His parents needed to do more to protect all the children.

What bothers me a lot about some of the linked articles is that LUST is viewed as equivalent to actions. The idea that having "impure thoughts" is as much of a sin as an action based on those thoughts. To me, that means if you THINK about molesting someone, you've already committed the sin, so why not do the action? (Especially if you're a teenage boy who was brought up to believe this.)

It's a big part of what I hate about this kind of religious thinking. Thoughts are not the same as actions. We might have urges to steal, rape , kill, etc. We are responsible for not acting on those urges. Most of us, no matter our religious upbringing, understand the difference. We hold people responsible for their actions, not their thoughts. But reading some of those linked documents, the Duggars aren't raising their kids like that.

Edited May 25, 2015 by backformore

[Katydid]

If TLC does pitch the compromise of continuing the show but without the Smuggars....won't it be interesting to see how JB and Mechelle respond. Whether they will go for that. As "family" oriented as they claim to be, will they be OK with their precious Joshy and family being excluded?