Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[Rabbittron]

1 hour ago, lookeyloo said:

Right, and they were quick to use the NICU for Miracle Josie - why didn't they take her home and pray for perfection?  Some part of them must have realized they needed real help.

 

I  don't think that they realized they needed help. The medical team made all the decisions about Josie 

[theironwoman]

2 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

Right, and they were quick to use the NICU for Miracle Josie - why didn't they take her home and pray for perfection?  Some part of them must have realized they needed real help.

As an aside, my cousin's grandmother was born in Utah in the late 1800s and later became a doctor, don't know how that happened or if she just called herself a doctor, but anyway, her daughter, my aunt by marriage it was said was born at just over a pound, and they kept her in a shoebox lined with cotton either in or near the oven on low or  pilot light, or what kind of oven, don't know and the father (husband of doctor) fed her whiskey with an eye dropper til she got strong enough for more.  Whether this is true or not it makes a great family story and the aunt grew into a healthy beautiful woman who later gained a million pounds.  These were not religious people.

The Dionne Quintuplets were born two months early in 1934 and were cared for at home using similar methods. They all survived infancy. I find stories like this remarkable.

In an interesting comparison, JFK's son Patrick was born five weeks early, almost thirty years later, and died two days later of infant respiratory distress syndrome, which now has a 10% mortality rate if the gestation age is over 27weeks.

[kokapetl]

What the hell happened to Ben and his big preachy mouth? 

[louannems]

Well, they always get quiet when filming.

I hope Spurgie doesn't roll off the bed in his sleep.

It sickens me to see that sweet rump up in the air, and to remember all those christian parenting books I once read that advocate spanking that young, or younger.

[BitterApple]

Cute kiddo, but I don't see Ben anywhere in Spurge at all. He's got Jessa's eyes, nose and lips. The Mkids are the only Duggarlings thus far who share a resemblance to the other side of their family.

Edited December 16, 2016 by BitterApple

[sometimesy]

1 hour ago, louannems said:

Well, they always get quiet when filming.

I hope Spurgie doesn't roll off the bed in his sleep.

It sickens me to see that sweet rump up in the air, and to remember all those christian parenting books I once read that advocate spanking that young, or younger.

He is adorable.

[Christina87]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Cute kiddo, but I don't see Ben anywhere in Spurge at all. He's got Jessa's eyes, nose and lips. The Mkids are the only Duggarlings thus far who share a resemblance to the other side of their family.

I think Izzy looks a little like Cathy, but not like Derick. Maybe I am just projecting, because I think she cherishes that boy more than anyone else does. Of course his parents love him, but Jill seems so disconnected, Derick is too focused on mission work, and his other grandparents see him as a prop / number to swell their ranks. Cathy seems to adore Izzy in the way Jessa and Ben adore Spurge, and I hope he will always realize he has his grandmother to turn to. 

[Oldernowiser]

Hell, I just wonder what will happen if Spurgeon 2.0 is a difficult baby or (gasp!) an ugly one. Yes, there are ugly babies, I'm sorry but it's true. Until he was seven months or so my latest grandnephew had a head like a lightbulb, was bald as an egg, and looked pretty much like those giant-headed aliens they imagined would travel in UFOs in the 50s.  And his parents are both gorgeous.

The Seewalds got pretty lucky with this one...I don't see them doing as well with a homely screamer.

[Christina87]

Hahaha yes there are ugly babies! A coworker had one, and everyone fawned over how adorable it was. I always wondered if they really thought that, or if they just felt they "had" to say it. Now, the child is two, and has grown into a cute toddler. 

[momofsquid]

I had an ugly baby. People used to come charging towards her baby carriage squealing "Let me see, let me see!" And then they'd peek in and stop short with "OH!! She's...sweet" and they'd back away. Our neighbor told us to stop showing her off and "wait until she looks like something." It was like the Hamptons episode of Seinfeld. For the record, she's 21 now and turned out quite attractive. They don't necessarily stay ugly. But back to Benessa, they are probably self-involved enough that they would see any child of theirs as objectively beautiful. Because Jesus.

I quoted myself instead of editing. Need more coffee.

Edited December 18, 2016 by momofsquid

[lookeyloo]

We call those babies "cute shoes" babies, as in a mother brings in a baby or a picture of a baby, that the rest of us don't think is cute and we say "cute shoes!" in such a way the mother thanks us.  "Will you look at those shoes?  What could be cuter than those?"  Has worked well for us.

[BradandJanet]

I always coo over babies and their pictures. I never want parents to doubt their own offspring. I was a cute baby/toddler who grew to look like my father. My mother never let me forget it. It's OK. I've had an awesome life in part because I received a great education. Duggar kids won't have that. It's too bad. 

[queenanne]

I think even those babies who look like E.T. are cute, but then again I'm a big sap.

[Love2dance]

5 hours ago, queenanne said:

I think even those babies who look like E.T. are cute, but then again I'm a big sap.

Me too. There has never been a baby I couldn't find something adorable about.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Love2dance
Second sentence in wrong thread.

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 8:17 AM, Churchhoney said:

(The other chief ethic: Be sure  Assume you're better than everybody else and make sure to tell the world this as often as possible.) ....

Fixed that for ya.

[lascuba]

12 hours ago, queenanne said:

I think even those babies who look like E.T. are cute, but then again I'm a big sap.

Same. I find "baby-ness" just cute in general so even if they're funny looking I still honestly find them adorable.

[Chicklet]

All babies are cute but like Jessa's and Jill's babies, some are cuter than others. I think Spurgie is much cuter but its all subjective. When we used to run into an ugly baby our office would exclaim adoringly to the parents, " he looks just like you!" Nobody noticed we didn't say the kid was beautiful.

[mbutterfly]

On September 22, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Whyyouneedaname said:

not sure of his salary but the church may pay him a pastor's salary and also pay his rent. I know here some churches have a parsonage for the pastor to live in for free. 

If that's 25 families (or so) and the church and parsonage are paid for, their tithe should support a pastor's family. The pastor's family would also serve as secretary and custodian, probably.

[Fostersmom]

2 hours ago, Chicklet said:

All babies are cute but like Jessa's and Jill's babies, some are cuter than others. I think Spurgie is much cuter but its all subjective. When we used to run into an ugly baby our office would exclaim adoringly to the parents, " he looks just like you!" Nobody noticed we didn't say the kid was beautiful.

Spurge is a cutie now. Most babies look not so cute at birth, they need a few weeks or months to develop some cuteness. There's always something positive to say, look at those eyes/lashes/hair/cheeks. Say it positively enough and no one will notice. My middle nephew was NOT a cute baby, but by the time he was like 10, he was so "pretty" for a boy, people kept thinking he was a girl. He had beautiful blond hair, which he liked long, and bright blue eyes. Now he's 18 and I liken him to Grumpy Cat, but that's another issue. LOL!

[DangerousMinds]

Spurge also looks like Boob, so . . . .

[Arwen Evenstar]

Spurge is definitely an adorable little chunker. Even though he looks like Boob's Mini Me, I hope he doesn't end up with Boob's constipated frog face of disapproval.

[Lemur]

1 hour ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Spurge is definitely an adorable little chunker. Even though he looks like Boob's Mini Me, I hope he doesn't end up with Boob's constipated frog face of disapproval.

Yeah, I'm really hoping that's the result of certain "lifestyle choices" than genetics.

[lascuba]

Jim Bob's kids that most resemble him fall into one of two extremes--gorgeous (Jessa) or...Jill. It's really funny how that works...how you can see the really strong resemblance to their father but they don't look like each other at all. Same with Spurgeon and Israel. They both strongly resemble JB but look nothing like each other.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

Jim Bob's kids that most resemble him fall into one of two extremes--gorgeous (Jessa) or...Jill. It's really funny how that works...how you can see the really strong resemblance to their father but they don't look like each other at all. Same with Spurgeon and Israel. They both strongly resemble JB but look nothing like each other.

That's so true. If you consider Jer, the Sinner Twin, he's Boob's lookalike but pretty hot, while Justin and Jackson are mini-me's on the unfortunate end of the genetics. The siblings all have that Duggar-ish "countenance", but the majority of them look nothing alike. It's very weird.

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

Jim Bob's kids that most resemble him fall into one of two extremes--gorgeous (Jessa) or...Jill. It's really funny how that works...how you can see the really strong resemblance to their father but they don't look like each other at all. Same with Spurgeon and Israel. They both strongly resemble JB but look nothing like each other.

The eye of the beholder, and all that...or the eye of the camera. I think Jessa is more photogenic than beautiful, while Jill actually has prettier features to my eye, but the camera simply doesn't like her and their choices of facial expression for a photo just accentuates that.

But, yeah, family resemblance is a weird thing...of my three kids, the oldest (son) looks a little bit like me, but not very much, and doesn't really look a lot like anyone in the family, though, if anything, his features come more from my mother's side. My daughter is totally a mixture of my husband and me, though probably looks a little more like him, and has features from his mom's side of the family. My younger son looks like my father's side of the family, though not much like either of us (he actually quite resembles a paternal uncle of my father's, if old photos are anything to go by). Yet you can see a family resemblance between my two boys while my daughter looks nothing like them now, but when they were all little, she looked a bit like a mix of the boys... 

[lianau]

1 hour ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

 

But, yeah, family resemblance is a weird thing...of my three kids, the oldest (son) looks a little bit like me, but not very much, and doesn't really look a lot like anyone in the family, 

My 3 year old niece looks exactly like my grandmother who sadly died last year .  The resemblance is so strong that my niece identified my grandmother on a kindergarten picture from 1934 (my grandmother was 5 ) and  thought that was herself  . 

[laurakaye]

And I think Jana is by far the prettiest girl in the family, yet I don't even see a strong resemblance between her and her twin brother, let alone her sisters or even her parents.

Family features are indeed interesting.  I only have one sister, and we look nothing alike.  It's fun to me to see how siblings do or do not resemble one another.  On this show in particular, I don't find JB appealing in the least, but Michelle is quite pretty, IMO (minus the crazy hair).  Many of the Duggar kids strongly resemble JB, yet are good looking, and some are sort of on the other end and don't seem to favor either parent.  

And I love how, of all those kids, only one is left-handed.

[gunderda]

I think babies most often times resemble their grandparents.  It's very interesting to me. 

I feel like neither me or my brother resembled my parents much, at least not in the sense of when look at some people and think "oh yea, they are totally related".  However years ago I saw my mom's baby picture and I looked exactly like her at that age and my 6 month old nephew I think looks like me as a baby. But then people say he looks like my brother (his dad) but I think he looks like my SIL's dad.  And then I have my oldest nephew who I don't think resembles either of his parents. 

I also have a high school class mate whose first born looks like his mini-me and their other 4 sons looks nothing like him lol 

[lianau]

It's really funny that my niece looks so much like my grandmother because my mother looks like her father and my brother (the father of my niece ) resembles my mother . So paternal resemblance and then BANG! there is my grandmother all of a sudden .

[Barb23]

Had a bit of insomnia last night & was reading about home births that go wrong.  If Jessa or Jill have a home birth after the problems they had with their first borns, they are nuts.  These stories were heart wrenching & most of the baby's deaths were the midwives fault, predominantly not transferring mom to a hospital when problems started.  One involved the mom hemorrhaging so bad, the family almost lost both her & the baby.  The baby later died from lack of oxygen. One occurred at a birthing center across the street from a hospital & the baby still died.  It was ironic that the families chose home or birthing center births because midwives are supposed to care more than an OB & a hospital staff.  Yet most of the moms said the hospital staffs were quite caring & compassionate during their stays,  more so than the midwife who was worrying about covering up her actions. The only thing I found difficult to understand was how much trust the mom put in the midwife even after problems occurred or the mom sensed something was going wrong. One midwife told dad to call an ambulance service she used rather than 911.  An aunt called 911 but it was too late.   

I can't imagine entrusting Dr Jilly or Ms. Theresa with delivering babies after reading these horror stories. 

[yogi2014L]

1 hour ago, Barb23 said:

Had a bit of insomnia last night & was reading about home births that go wrong.  If Jessa or Jill have a home birth after the problems they had with their first borns, they are nuts.  These stories were heart wrenching & most of the baby's deaths were the midwives fault, predominantly not transferring mom to a hospital when problems started.  One involved the mom hemorrhaging so bad, the family almost lost both her & the baby.  The baby later died from lack of oxygen. One occurred at a birthing center across the street from a hospital & the baby still died.  It was ironic that the families chose home or birthing center births because midwives are supposed to care more than an OB & a hospital staff.  Yet most of the moms said the hospital staffs were quite caring & compassionate during their stays,  more so than the midwife who was worrying about covering up her actions. The only thing I found difficult to understand was how much trust the mom put in the midwife even after problems occurred or the mom sensed something was going wrong. One midwife told dad to call an ambulance service she used rather than 911.  An aunt called 911 but it was too late.   

I can't imagine entrusting Dr Jilly or Ms. Theresa with delivering babies after reading these horror stories. 

I think if Jessa attempts another home birth, we will never hear about it. Either she will do a publicized hospital birth /birthing center or she will deliver at home and just  give an announcement to that the baby is here with no birthing details . Especially if something was to go wrong

I really hope they choose to do a hospital birth. 

[DangerousMinds]

Unfortunately, I can see another bad birth experience in the future for Jessa. Let's hope she makes it.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, Barb23 said:

The only thing I found difficult to understand was how much trust the mom put in the midwife even after problems occurred or the mom sensed something was going wrong. 

The same thing happened with Jessa during the birth special. There was a point where she said "I think I need to go to the hospital" and someone off camera (either Michelle or Theresa) said "are you suuuuure?," in that sort of tone implying it was the wrong decision. So Jessa instinctively knew things weren't going well, but was talked out of seeking medical care.

[yogi2014L]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

The same thing happened with Jessa during the birth special. There was a point where she said "I think I need to go to the hospital" and someone off camera (either Michelle or Theresa) said "are you suuuuure?," in that sort of tone implying it was the wrong decision. So Jessa instinctively knew things weren't going well, but was talked out of seeking medical care.

Fucking sadists if that is the case. Hopefully Bin will stand up for Jessa this time.

[lascuba]

I've read so many home birth stories where women asked to go to the hospital, were refused, and then when things end well are all, "Oh, I'm so grateful my midwife knew to ignore me because I had a beautiful natural birth and I'm birth warrior now!" So it's likely that Jessa doesn't see it as a problem even with the pph.

[Sew Sumi]

 I'm pretty sure because God blesses her so much, that Jessa will have a perfect home birth this time. All of the misery that she suffered from the birth of Spurgeon will be erased.

 I guess we'll see. Hannah and Her Sisters seem to be able to give birth on the side of the road, but Jessa  have another successful home birth after the horror show she experienced with Spurgeon?

[Zahdii]

Both Jill and Jessa are now considered to be high risk.  There's no way any legitimate health care provider would agree to attempt a home birth with either of them.  The most they could hope for would be to attempt delivery at a birthing center attached to a hospital with an experienced nurse midwife who has been working with them from early in the pregnancy and an obstetrician overseeing the process.

I can't see either of those nitwits doing that.  They're just going to let things play out and then make excuses if things go bad.

[Rabbittron]

What wonderful name will they name this one?

[Absolom]

If Jill delivers in AR I believe she will legally need to do it in a hospital with a licensed OB.  This, of course, if she finds a hospital and OB who will consider her a good risk for an attempted VBAC.

[LilJen]

33 minutes ago, Absolom said:

If Jill delivers in AR I believe she will legally need to do it in a hospital with a licensed OB.  This, of course, if she finds a hospital and OB who will consider her a good risk for an attempted VBAC.

Yeah. . . fewer and fewer OBs are even allowing attempts at VBACs these days. Liability just too high. (Can you imagine being considered high risk for pregnancy, even though you're mid-20s and have given birth only once? What are the chances?)

Edited December 20, 2016 by LilJen

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

If Jill delivers in AR I believe she will legally need to do it in a hospital with a licensed OB.  This, of course, if she finds a hospital and OB who will consider her a good risk for an attempted VBAC.

2 hours ago, LilJen said:

Yeah. . . fewer and fewer OBs are even allowing attempts at VBACs these days. Liability just too high. (Can you imagine being considered high risk for pregnancy, even though you're mid-20s and have given birth only once? What are the chances?)

I just read an article about this yesterday. The pendulum is definitely swinging back to fewer and fewer MDs and hospitals allowing VBACs. The article was from the point of view of not allowing women choices in delivering their children. A suggestion was made to show up at the hospital when ready to push so they could avoid another C-section.

[Absolom]

That sounds like advice Jill would take to heart.

[Zahdii]

2 hours ago, LilJen said:

Yeah. . . fewer and fewer OBs are even allowing attempts at VBACs these days. Liability just too high. (Can you imagine being considered high risk for pregnancy, even though you're mid-20s and have given birth only once? What are the chances?)

Why yes, I can imagine it.  I had my first at 21.  Due to a shitty doctor that completely mismanaged my pregnancy (and paid for it with his license), I presented at the hospital 10 days overdue with full blown preeclampsia.  My medical records indicated that I'd had high blood pressure and protein in my urine for at least two weeks before my due date.  I was so swollen that I was unable to move my fingers well.  When I finally went into labor I freaked the hospital staff out.  The doctor who was brought in to deliver was pretty unhappy to see me and led the charge to get my primary doctor out of the baby delivering business.  Anyway, I ended up with an emergency C-section.

Three years later I was pregnant again, got a different doctor, and had a successful VBAC.  A few years after that I did it again.  Then I stopped having babies.

Obviously, I'm all for giving women a chance as long as they prepare properly.  Find a good doctor, follow medical advice, don't skip your prenatal visits, and agree in advance to an emergency C-section if the doctor recommends it.

[Lady Edith]

The thing I noticed about Jill is that, Instead of prepping for all eventualities in Izzy's birth,  she bought a birth pool and some supplies and called it a "plan".  There was never a solid plan in place.  Something detailed in case of emergency.  With Dillard #2, I can be certain in saying that she will once again eschew medical supervision and attempt a home birth.  

My first child (10 lbs, 4 ozs) was an unplanned cesarean and a traumatic birth experience.  It changed me.  

My second was to be a VBAC for about 4.3 seconds into my pregnancy in an effort to "fix" my bad birth experience .  My second chunky monkey  was  born at 12 lbs and there was no way my doc would let me attempt it after only (although I was 6 years postpartumwndvheekrf). 

vbacs are NOT for everyone and the decision to attempt one should be made only under the watchful eye of a doc who has been by your side the whole time.

Come on, Jil.  Woman up and get some prenatal care for the baby and you.  

[Arwen Evenstar]

I certainly hope Jill isn't stupid/foolish enough to attempt a home VBAC. No matter how much I think God likes me (or anyone else for that matter)  I also believe that He gave me and most other people the good common sense to seek medical counsel when it comes to health and wellbeing.

I woke up Monday with a bad cold that went straight to my chest. I'm at the limit of steroid shots for the year and my steroidal inhaler isn't making a dent. I'm not going to pray it away or wait until I have pneumonia and dial 911. My asthma is really been exacerbated due to allergies this season. Normally, I'm a very high functioning asthmatic. That said, I'm not arrogant enough to self medicate or diagnose or assume I'm sooooo speshul . It's foolish and best left to those qualified. Now that I'm convinced it's not allergies, I'm making sure I get in today.

Jessa's birth experience was harrowing to watch. I hope she, too, has the sense to get proper care and this time deliver at a hospital. I wanted to hurl something at the TV when they tried talking the poor lass out of going to the hospital. She knew something was wrong, but she was made to feel her birth would somehow be "less than" if she went to the hospital.  I bet this time she shows up when her water breaks and gets an epidural.  She's earned it.

[DangerousMinds]

Showing up as an emergency patient at the hospital is $$$$$$$$$. I wonder what kind of bills they received after their botched births?

[Barb23]

I'm sure Jessa feels that if she has a hemorrhaging problem again she can just go to the hospital like before & get a transfusion. It will be no big deal. I'm sure she didn't understand or comprehend how serious things were Spurgeon& both could have died.  The mom I referenced in my previous home birth post almost died because the hospital didn't have her blood type plasma/blood on hand for a transfusion.  They finally found something to give her that got things under control.  The home birth people think that by calling 911, things will be OK.  Not true in all cases. I'm not knocking paramedics at all (they are my heroes), but they aren't used to mom hemorrhaging or delivering a 10 pound baby stuck in the birth canal with the cord around it's neck like an experienced OB would.  One of the dads in the article I read emphasized this - it takes minutes for ambulance to get to you, minutes for them to assess situation, long minutes to get to hospital & when you get to hospital the ER doc will be first to see you while they have to track down an OB that knows nothing of you or your pregnancy. In Jessa's case, there won't be any prenatal care to reference.  Those are precious minutes that mean life or death for both mom & baby.

 I really want to physically shake some sense into Jessa & Jill. How can they be so naive & stupid?  I know,  I keep forgetting the Duggars have that special pipeline to God & Jesus so they'll be fine. 

[ginger90]

I had my second daughter at home. It wasn't planned. Labor was so quick it just happened. So, for my third I requested a scheduled induction. I told my doctor I didn't want to wake up and find I had given birth. It was agreed upon and is what happened. I was induced in a hospital and all was well.

What sucked with giving birth at home was, my daughter couldn't room with me right away because she was a home birth. They monitored her differently.

[DangerousMinds]

48 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

I'm sure Jessa feels that if she has a hemorrhaging problem again she can just go to the hospital like before & get a transfusion. It will be no big deal. I'm sure she didn't understand or comprehend how serious things were Spurgeon& both could have died.  T

Again, HUGE bills involved in "just" going to the hospital and getting a transfusion.

[LilJen]

11 hours ago, Zahdii said:

Why yes, I can imagine it.  I had my first at 21.  Due to a shitty doctor that completely mismanaged my pregnancy (and paid for it with his license), I presented at the hospital 10 days overdue with full blown preeclampsia.  My medical records indicated that I'd had high blood pressure and protein in my urine for at least two weeks before my due date.  I was so swollen that I was unable to move my fingers well.  When I finally went into labor I freaked the hospital staff out.  The doctor who was brought in to deliver was pretty unhappy to see me and led the charge to get my primary doctor out of the baby delivering business.  Anyway, I ended up with an emergency C-section.

Three years later I was pregnant again, got a different doctor, and had a successful VBAC.  A few years after that I did it again.  Then I stopped having babies.

Obviously, I'm all for giving women a chance as long as they prepare properly.  Find a good doctor, follow medical advice, don't skip your prenatal visits, and agree in advance to an emergency C-section if the doctor recommends it.

Holy cow! Thank goodness you and baby came out OK. Pretty rare situation, but all the same, there's a REASON they routinely check BP and protein in the urine--generally not to ignore it but to avoid situations like yours!