Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[yogi2014L]

2 hours ago, Barb23 said:

I'm sure Jessa feels that if she has a hemorrhaging problem again she can just go to the hospital like before & get a transfusion. It will be no big deal. I'm sure she didn't understand or comprehend how serious things were Spurgeon& both could have died.  The mom I referenced in my previous home birth post almost died because the hospital didn't have her blood type plasma/blood on hand for a transfusion.  They finally found something to give her that got things under control.  The home birth people think that by calling 911, things will be OK.  Not true in all cases. I'm not knocking paramedics at all (they are my heroes), but they aren't used to mom hemorrhaging or delivering a 10 pound baby stuck in the birth canal with the cord around it's neck like an experienced OB would.  One of the dads in the article I read emphasized this - it takes minutes for ambulance to get to you, minutes for them to assess situation, long minutes to get to hospital & when you get to hospital the ER doc will be first to see you while they have to track down an OB that knows nothing of you or your pregnancy. In Jessa's case, there won't be any prenatal care to reference.  Those are precious minutes that mean life or death for both mom & baby.

 I really want to physically shake some sense into Jessa & Jill. How can they be so naive & stupid?  I know,  I keep forgetting the Duggars have that special pipeline to God & Jesus so they'll be fine. 

Um yeah my husband has delivered babies before as a cop ( he is also an EMT) ...trust me you want a doctor! Lol! :0) they were fine btw but yeah first responders are not doctors, and they are very limited in what equipment they have and what they can do. Even if you are close to a hospital total transit time would be like 30 minutes door to door, thats a long enough time to kill both mom and baby.

I am very curious to see if they have learned anything. I think Jill is in a much riskier position physically than Jessa, but I think she will be more likely to go to the hospital ( I think Jbooby will insist) than Jessa will. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by yogi2014L

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

I really want to physically shake some sense into Jessa & Jill. How can they be so naive & stupid?

I don't watch the episodes, just live on the Duggar threads, so I am wondering--do they do this for People coverage?  To make their stories more compelling so they'll get more viewers and People will keep supporting them?  Is this even feasible???

[Marigold]

Both Jill and Jessa had botched home births.  

I guess I never noticed it so bluntly before.  Both girls had home birth problems and landed up at the hospital in an emergency.  That's pretty bad. 

[scriggle]

3 hours ago, Marigold said:

Both Jill and Jessa had botched home births.  

Because both had zero pre-natal care. Dr. Jill/Vanessa/Theresa/whoever do not count.

[lascuba]

4 hours ago, WhineandCheez said:

I don't watch the episodes, just live on the Duggar threads, so I am wondering--do they do this for People coverage?  To make their stories more compelling so they'll get more viewers and People will keep supporting them?  Is this even feasible???

I think it's partly because of filming (plenty of doctors and hospitals limit or prohibit filming births all together), but that's only a small part. Mostly, it's that home birth is in style for certain demographics, fundies being one of those demos (hilariously, the ultra-liberal crunchy types are another---it's like anti-vax, people on opposite ends of the political spectrum have common ground). You don't have to dig deep online to find large groups of extreme homebirthers who classify every complication as a variation of normal. Do you have pre-eclampsia and gestational diabetes and want to have a homebirth after 4 C-sections? You will easily find people online who will cheer you on and tell you that all you have to do is believe in yourself to have the birth of your dreams. If you don't want to hear contrary opinions, they're easy enough to avoid. And we know for a fact that the Duggars are expert and ignoring/dismissing what they don't want to hear.

[Missy Vixen]

15 hours ago, Lady Edith said:

The thing I noticed about Jill is that, Instead of prepping for all eventualities in Izzy's birth,  she bought a birth pool and some supplies and called it a "plan".  There was never a solid plan in place.  Something detailed in case of emergency.  

 

I am not an expert in birth plans (I did not study under Venessa, for instance) but I'm betting Jilly Muffin's multi-page birth plan had details like which Bible verses she wanted and how she didn't want to wear shoes. One can only imagine what was on Jessa Blessa's, or if there was a birth plan at all.

It's unbelievable that both of these young women flatly refused to acknowledge that childbirth can be extremely dangerous and it's best left to the professionals to assist birthing moms.

[Caracoa1]

Do either of these girls receive prenatal care or are they winging it?  They both had very large babies which resulted in serious complications...Will they be so arrogant to try this again without help?

[Joe Jitsu913]

12 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I certainly hope Jill isn't stupid/foolish enough to attempt a home VBAC. No matter how much I think God likes me (or anyone else for that matter)  I also believe that He gave me and most other people the good common sense to seek medical counsel when it comes to health and wellbeing.

I woke up Monday with a bad cold that went straight to my chest. I'm at the limit of steroid shots for the year and my steroidal inhaler isn't making a dent. I'm not going to pray it away or wait until I have pneumonia and dial 911. My asthma is really been exacerbated due to allergies this season. Normally, I'm a very high functioning asthmatic. That said, I'm not arrogant enough to self medicate or diagnose or assume I'm sooooo speshul . It's foolish and best left to those qualified. Now that I'm convinced it's not allergies, I'm making sure I get in today.

Jessa's birth experience was harrowing to watch. I hope she, too, has the sense to get proper care and this time deliver at a hospital. I wanted to hurl something at the TV when they tried talking the poor lass out of going to the hospital. She knew something was wrong, but she was made to feel her birth would somehow be "less than" if she went to the hospital.  I bet this time she shows up when her water breaks and gets an epidural.  She's earned it.

I'm the same way. I'm prone to getting chest infections and sinus infections. I'd rather go to the doctor before it turns into pneumonia.  

 

Jessa and Jill have to prove they're precious snowflakes who have Jesus on their side. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, Joe Jitsu913 said:

 

I'm the same way. I'm prone to getting chest infections and sinus infections. I'd rather go to the doctor before it turns into pneumonia.  

 

Jessa and Jill have to prove they're precious snowflakes who have Jesus on their side. 

Like some, I believe Jesus gave me the common sense to go see a doctor; I'd never presume to be one of His speshul snowflakes to the point of taking unnecessary risks with my health.  Isn't that a lack of humility, Duggars? Doesn't mean I lack faith, just means I use common sense. And, I wait to haul out the prayer mat for more serious matters than something easy to treat or to presume I'm a speshul snowflake...Jill and Jessa, here's your sign. You both haven't got a lick of sense between you. Get thee both to an OBGYN 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar
Muchos typos

[Barb23]

4 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

Do either of these girls receive prenatal care or are they winging it?  They both had very large babies which resulted in serious complications...Will they be so arrogant to try this again without help?

We are under the assumption they are winging it or at least Jessa is or she uses Dr Jill as her OB. (Same thing as winging it.) We have never seen Benessa go to a Drs appt nor is it ever mentioned.  We did see Jill using the midwife in the shack that Mrs. Query was studying under.

[Rabbittron]

4 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

Do either of these girls receive prenatal care or are they winging it?  They both had very large babies which resulted in serious complications...Will they be so arrogant to try this again without help?

All the girls use DR Jill.

[Joe Jitsu913]

33 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

All the girls use DR Jill.

Dr. Jill,  Medicine Woman™ includes the following accessories : Striped Maxi skirt,  glasses (to make her look smart),  a Bible,  and tator tot casserole. Meth head husband sold separately. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, Joe Jitsu913 said:

Dr. Jill,  Medicine Woman™ includes the following accessories : Striped Maxi skirt,  glasses (to make her look smart),  a Bible,  and tator tot casserole. Meth head husband sold separately. 

You forgot the flip flops and Derick's man bun and an accountability partner..aka snitch.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar

[Marigold]

I'm pretty crunchy and some of the advice I read is actually frightening.  

Except I KNOW it is frightening and don't follow it.  Jessa, Jilly and crew think it's solid advice and will blindly follow it.  

This is another area where lack of education is not good.  Even IF a woman's goal is to be a wife and mother, get an education and most importantly, be a self learner.  The Duggars do neither.    

[Arwen Evenstar]

11 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I'm pretty crunchy and some of the advice I read is actually frightening.  

Except I KNOW it is frightening and don't follow it.  Jessa, Jilly and crew think it's solid advice and will blindly follow it.  

This is another area where lack of education is not good.  Even IF a woman's goal is to be a wife and mother, get an education and most importantly, be a self learner.  The Duggars do neither.    

Because, Silly, the Wisdumb Booklets contain all they need to know. Their former religious leader has a foot fetish and Dr Wheat considers the clitoris so wrong, that he doesn't show it in his marital education materials.

[rue721]

Based on how Michelle took advantage of medical care for *herself,* I don't think that giving birth in a hospital or using doctors (etc) goes against their religious beliefs in any way. IMO Jessa and Jill are not making these dangerous medical choices because they're fundamentalist.

Honestly, the way that it never seems to occur to Jessa or Jill (or really any of the kids, as far as I know) to seek real medical care drives home to me that they were neglected. I don't think they way the kidults helplessly bumble along in isolation is necessarily coming from a place of arrogance. IMO it probably doesn't occur to them to ask for help -- because their parents would never (and did never) seek out help on their behalf. The idea that they could get help just by asking probably doesn't even cross their minds as a possibility.

IMO these dangerous "birth plans" are an example of learned helplessness. And it's especially disturbing to watch, I think, because we've been seeing Mere and Pere Duggar neglect their kids for decades, so it's obvious where that learned helplessness is coming from.

[GeeGolly]

It's one thing to plan a home birth with proper prenatal and and true proper birth planning. Jill's baby was breech and that would have been known before the 11th hour with proper care. Delivery a breech baby vaginally is not wise under the best of circumstances and certainly more dangerous in a backwoods shack or even in a Mcmansion. That didn't happen, but only because Jill's labor didn't progress.

I don't know if why Jessa lost so much blood was explained, but it's another example of how home births can be complicated.

If the Duggar daughters aren't getting proper prenatal care and are planning on home deliveries this time around then they're completely stupid and they better stop with their pro-life stance because the consideration they give they're fetuses is negligible. 

[Fostersmom]

The home birth thing started with Anna. Even before Josie, Michelle was more than happy to go to the hospital, so it's not like this was something the girls grew up seeing. I'd say maybe it's the fundie version of yoga moms, but I don't know. I'm not holding out hope for Jill, but I think maybe Jessa will be smart enough to get herself to a hospital this time. 

[Rabbittron]

17 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

The home birth thing started with Anna. Even before Josie, Michelle was more than happy to go to the hospital, so it's not like this was something the girls grew up seeing. I'd say maybe it's the fundie version of yoga moms, but I don't know. I'm not holding out hope for Jill, but I think maybe Jessa will be smart enough to get herself to a hospital this time. 

She won't go to the hospital this time because she is thinking it will not happen again.

[DangerousMinds]

6 hours ago, rue721 said:

Based on how Michelle took advantage of medical care for *herself,* I don't think that giving birth in a hospital or using doctors (etc) goes against their religious beliefs in any way. IMO Jessa and Jill are not making these dangerous medical choices because they're fundamentalist.

Honestly, the way that it never seems to occur to Jessa or Jill (or really any of the kids, as far as I know) to seek real medical care drives home to me that they were neglected. I don't think they way the kidults helplessly bumble along in isolation is necessarily coming from a place of arrogance. IMO it probably doesn't occur to them to ask for help -- because their parents would never (and did never) seek out help on their behalf. The idea that they could get help just by asking probably doesn't even cross their minds as a possibility.

IMO these dangerous "birth plans" are an example of learned helplessness. And it's especially disturbing to watch, I think, because we've been seeing Mere and Pere Duggar neglect their kids for decades, so it's obvious where that learned helplessness is coming from.

The thing is - Jill should know better, because she has done some "training" as a midwife and seen others get care and help with their pregnancies. And both Jill and Jessa have husbands who were not raised in the same way and could demand they get appropriate medical care. Especially this second time around when both of their wives/kids were put in danger last time.

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

It's one thing to plan a home birth with proper prenatal and and true proper birth planning. Jill's baby was breech and that would have been known before the 11th hour with proper care. Delivery a breech baby vaginally is not wise under the best of circumstances and certainly more dangerous in a backwoods shack or even in a Mcmansion. That didn't happen, but only because Jill's labor didn't progress.

I don't know if why Jessa lost so much blood was explained, but it's another example of how home births can be complicated.

If the Duggar daughters aren't getting proper prenatal care and are planning on home deliveries this time around then they're completely stupid and they better stop with their pro-life stance because the consideration they give they're fetuses is negligible. 

And themselves. The women are also likely to be harmed or even die during a botched delivery.

[Arwen Evenstar]

6 hours ago, rue721 said:

MO these dangerous "birth plans" are an example of learned helplessness. And it's especially disturbing to watch, I think, because we've been seeing Mere and Pere Duggar neglect their kids for decades, so it's obvious where that learned helplessness is coming from.

Couldn't agree with you more! The whole Duggar clan is all about learned helplessness. Fundy girls never learn to make their own decisions because father umbrella of authority and headship authority on marriage.  Jill not having a clue what to do all day but post jacked up selfies about how being a missionary was so tough. FFS, she was living in a house behind a security gate and had a fair amount of access to running water and western toilets and wifi. If she was living in a mud hut and had to squat in the dirt, I'd have a bit more empathy. The clingy succubus couldn't even deal with him having an 8 to 5 job, without coming up to see him at lunch. 

Learned helplessness is also taught by a grifting father who thinks he's too speshul to tip and tries to get everything comped or TLC to pay for it and a checked out, bloated, gravid termite queen of a mother, who clearly leaves all the raising and child care to her daughters. 

Even the littlest Duggar, Josie, has already learned helplessness by eating with her fingers instead of using utensils. That child is feral as well as obviously delayed, but coddling has made it so she doesn't have to try to do anything that's too hard or she just doesn't want to.

[Marigold]

I'm on a lot of crunchy FB pages and most of the moms are very, very young and refuse to go to doctors for almost anything. These young women are very un-religious.  

In general, i think home births are the trend now.  Michelle is 50 and that wasn't trendy in her time. Jill, with her pretend midwife thing, is encouraging all this.  Jessa has to compete so she followed along.  I highly doubt Jinger will be giving birth on a toilet in Laredo with a film crew in her hoo-ha. 

[Jeeves]

On 12/20/2016 at 0:02 PM, yogi2014L said:

I think if Jessa attempts another home birth, we will never hear about it. Either she will do a publicized hospital birth /birthing center or she will deliver at home and just  give an announcement to that the baby is here with no birthing details . Especially if something was to go wrong

I really hope they choose to do a hospital birth. 

I share the hope for a hospital birth.

But whatever Jessa does, whether home birth or hospital - I am 101% sure that the labor and delivery will be covered exhaustively by a TLC camera crew, and will also be the subject of a People magazine exclusive story. 

As long as TLC contracts are in effect, no pregnancy or childbirth of a Duggarling will go unpublicized.

The Duggar women are now professional breeders. Yep. That sounds harsh, but they make money from TV and press coverage of their courting, engagements, weddings, pregnancies, and childbirths. 

Actually, both Jill's and Jessa's second pregnancies are more interesting and likely to have good ratings, because of the danger and potential trainwreck factor. I don't wish them ill, but there's nothing inherently special about twenty-something married women who are pregnant for a second time. Add in the near-disasters that each of them experienced with their first delivery, and there's some suspense with the second pregnancies. 

Both Jill and Jessa may be clever enough to keep everyone guessing about their plans for delivery. I could see Jessa, especially, going to a hospital to deliver after letting everyone think she's planning another homebirth. Girl would revel in surprising the hell outta folks that way.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Jeeves

[laurakaye]

3 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

She won't go to the hospital this time because she is thinking it will not happen again.

Yes.  It's that simple.  If you don't think about it, it won't happen again.  Done and done.

Willful ignorance on her part, but I think it's true that she simply knows no other way.  Someone else is going to have to step in and insist that both Jill and Jessa go to the hospital for their next deliveries, but unless they get themselves to an OBGYN for monthly visits, they can remain in a state of blissful stupidity.

I'd like to think that perhaps JB or Michelle might act like parents and discuss this with Jill and Jessa, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Arwen Evenstar]

48 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I'm on a lot of crunchy FB pages and most of the moms are very, very young and refuse to go to doctors for almost anything. These young women are very un-religious.  

In general, i think home births are the trend now.  Michelle is 50 and that wasn't trendy in her time. Jill, with her pretend midwife thing, is encouraging all this.  Jessa has to compete so she followed along.  I highly doubt Jinger will be giving birth on a toilet in Laredo with a film crew in her hoo-ha. 

That's a part of it -- being trendy, but trends aren't for everyone wrt to one's health concerns and needs. With malpractice premiums so high nowadays, many OBGYN docs have dropped OB and are now just GYN. In some rural areas, many women likely have to rely on a midwife if the nearest hospital with an OB is 100 miles away. This is already a reality in rural south and west Texas.

[lianau]

13 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Like some, I believe Jesus gave me the common sense to go see a doctor; I'd never presume to be one of His speshul snowflakes to the point of taking unnecessary risks with my health.  Isn't that a lack of humility, Duggars? Doesn't mean I lack faith, just means I use common sense. And, I wait to haul out the prayer mat for more serious matters than something easy to treat or to presume I'm a speshul snowflake...Jill and Jessa, here's your sign. You both haven't got a lick of sense between you. Get thee both to an OBGYN 

That's like the joke with the guy in a flood who drowns and then complains to God . And God tells him , he send him  two boats and a helicopter .

 

1 hour ago, Marigold said:

I'm on a lot of crunchy FB pages and most of the moms are very, very young and refuse to go to doctors for almost anything. These young women are very un-religious.  

In general, i think home births are the trend now.  Michelle is 50 and that wasn't trendy in her time. Jill, with her pretend midwife thing, is encouraging all this.  Jessa has to compete so she followed along.  I highly doubt Jinger will be giving birth on a toilet in Laredo with a film crew in her hoo-ha. 

That's the downside of living in a medically modern society. My mother couldn't go to school for weeks because her sister had polio (thankfully she recovered without lasting damage),  of course  we got all our shots .

[lascuba]

2 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

The thing is - Jill should know better, because she has done some "training" as a midwife and seen others get care and help with their pregnancies. And both Jill and Jessa have husbands who were not raised in the same way and could demand they get appropriate medical care. Especially this second time around when both of their wives/kids were put in danger last time.

 

Jill's training amounted to a correspondence course and an apprenticeship under a fundie lay midwife who's business was being financed in part by Jim Bob. And that's not even getting into the negligence and incompetence that led to that midwife losing her license to practice in Arkansas. It's really easy to memorize facts from a book enough to pass a test, and if the only person training you is practicing in a home owned by your father, that training will be even less diligent.

I'm willing to bet that no one sees Jill's and Jessa's situations as truly dangerous. In their minds, everything worked out as they should have...with hospitals there as backups when things went badly. They don't know about risk factors and managing those risks, and that prevention is a hell of a lot better than dealing with emergencies. I bet Jill doesn't know and Jessa hasn't bothered researching that having had a postpartum hemorrhage is a risk factor for having another one, and she shouldn't consider giving birth anywhere but at a hospital. I bet Jill thinks that a vaginal breech birth with an unproven pelvis is fine as long as there's no meconium. I bet she thinks a 1% chance of uterine rupture is really tiny (when it's actually HUGE in a specialty that measures risks in the 1/10000s) and therefore it's safe to attempt a VBAC at home. These people are a tragedy waiting to happen.

[laurakaye]

2 hours ago, lascuba said:

Jill's training amounted to a correspondence course and an apprenticeship under a fundie lay midwife who's business was being financed in part by Jim Bob.

That would be like, say, Jeremiah being trained as the family's accountant by someone who knows how to cook the books and is financed by Jim Bob.

This family seems to be becoming more and more insular, and are becoming a danger to themselves.

[Rabbittron]

I can't wait until this family implodes.

[Caracoa1]

16 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Because, Silly, the Wisdumb Booklets contain all they need to know. Their former religious leader has a foot fetish and Dr Wheat considers the clitoris so wrong, that he doesn't show it in his marital education materials.

Without getting graphic are these women allowed to enjoy sex?

[BitterApple]

18 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

I can't wait until this family implodes.

I don't think you'll have to wait too long! Judging by Jordyn's miserable expression during her birthday video, all is not well at Casa de Tater Tots. Jana's probably doing her best to hold things together, but it's a rapidly sinking ship.

[SuspiciousMind]

6 hours ago, Marigold said:

I highly doubt Jinger will be giving birth on a toilet in Laredo with a film crew in her hoo-ha. 

Marigold wins the internets today!

[Ripley68]

Enjoying sex is highly encouraged, but they still have to be willing and able whenever hubby want.

[JoanArc]

1 hour ago, Rabbittron said:

I can't wait until this family implodes.

Lets get 5 more grand kids and 3 more desperation weddings in first, then rapidly pull the plug.

[Malvina]

[scriggle]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

Lets get 5 more grand kids and 3 more desperation weddings in first, then rapidly pull the plug.

Both sets of twins could have double weddings. First Jana and JD. Then the next day, Jed and Jer. Think of the spectacle. Think of the grifting opportunities. Think of the ratings.

[BitterApple]

Jessa looks like she's carrying higher and more stuck out in front this time around. The recently posted videos on her Instagram of Spurgeon and Izzy are adorable.

[Sew Sumi]

I could only see Jessa's heads, so I was able to figure out what she was up to. I hopped over to her FB to check it out. The shirts just keep getting tighter and tighter. So modest. 

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 0:00 PM, birkenstock said:

I do think Jessa has a mean streak.  She tries to control her siblings through passive aggressiveness and straight up aggression.  She took out her hostility on others who had no power. Rebel against your parents and be defiant, don't make your brothers and sisters' lives worse. Even Jinger said that Jessa had become nicer since she had Spurgeon. If her own "best friend" indirectly calls her a bitch there is something there.

I wouldn't applaud Jill if she continually underminded her siblings' plans, I would think she was pushy and needed to step off. Jessa tried to take over guest house decorating after plans were made and the real work had been done. Then she refused to look at the wall to see the decorations when she saw she couldn't get her own way.  It wouldn't have been a big deal but she constantly tries to get her way when her lazy ass does nothing.

The Jana jewelry box story gets so much traction because Jana was crying while she told the story and Jessa had a weird smirk on her face. It may have been a "whoa calm down"  rather than triumphant, but it showed no empathy. She may have been embarrassed that it was being discussed in public. Michelle is to blame for letting Jessa get away with shitty behavior.

It's more little things that build up to think Jessa is a bully.  

I will never forget watching Jessa chase Hannie down like a dog, and then pushing her down on the floor and forcibly restraining her there.  Because naps must be taken until you're six!!  Even Michelle was bug-eyed at Jessa's forcefulness.  For all the talk of how wonderful Jessa's "spunkiness" is, she sure tried to beat Hannie's spirit down.  I bet Jessa was more than happy to blanket train baby Hannie.  I can see her laying in wait, ready to beat that baby back in line, because rules.

I wonder if Jinger was born an obedient lapdog, or if that came from being BFFs with Jessa.  Sure, the kids are their parent's responsibility, and teenaged girls shouldn't be raising their younger siblings.  But I saw enough scenes of Jordyn sobbing, abandoned attached to the dining room table, and discovered alone outside in the cold, barefoot, to realize Jessa's buddies are lucky to be alive.  I wouldn't treat a stranger's child with such contempt.  I wouldn't treat a dog with such contempt.  I can't like her.  Regardless of the fact that she apparently found a heart, along with compassion and empathy for a child, when she gave birth to her own. 

[louannems]

I don't think Michelle DID allow Jessa to get her own way and develop into a brat and a mean girl.  Michelle has said many times, on the shows and in the books, that Jessa was a spunky handful of a child.  She always wanted her own way.  I'm sure Jessa was spanked much more frequently and forcefully than the others. Since JB and Michelle have no tools in their parenting toolbox except the rod, well some kids get worse with spanking and need a much different type of discipline.  Discipline, not punishment. 

[queenanne]

18 hours ago, Fostersmom said:

The home birth thing started with Anna. Even before Josie, Michelle was more than happy to go to the hospital, so it's not like this was something the girls grew up seeing. I'd say maybe it's the fundie version of yoga moms, but I don't know. I'm not holding out hope for Jill, but I think maybe Jessa will be smart enough to get herself to a hospital this time. 

I'm absolutely sure it's just because it's hip.  Michelle went to the hospital because her own mother probably went to the hospital, and her peers.  If it's "a fundie thing" at all, it's coincidental and self-directed because the practitioners happen to be fundies.  There is no mass "because that's the way it would have been done in Galilee" or similar nonsense.

[AnnieBeez]

6 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I will never forget watching Jessa chase Hannie down like a dog, and then pushing her down on the floor and forcibly restraining her there.  Because naps must be taken until you're six!!  Even Michelle was bug-eyed at Jessa's forcefulness.  For all the talk of how wonderful Jessa's "spunkiness" is, she sure tried to beat Hannie's spirit down.  I bet Jessa was more than happy to blanket train baby Hannie.  I can see her laying in wait, ready to beat that baby back in line, because rules.

I wonder if Jinger was born an obedient lapdog, or if that came from being BFFs with Jessa.  Sure, the kids are their parent's responsibility, and teenaged girls shouldn't be raising their younger siblings.  But I saw enough scenes of Jordyn sobbing, abandoned attached to the dining room table, and discovered alone outside in the cold, barefoot, to realize Jessa's buddies are lucky to be alive.  I wouldn't treat a stranger's child with such contempt.  I wouldn't treat a dog with such contempt.  I can't like her.  Regardless of the fact that she apparently found a heart, along with compassion and empathy for a child, when she gave birth to her own. 

Apparently. And based on photos and videos posted to social media. Even on the show, I see Ben lugging him around. I don't recall seeing a lot of nurturing from Jessa. I'm not willing to call Jessa a great mom yet. Is he a prop or his own person? 

[JoanArc]

14 hours ago, scriggle said:

Both sets of twins could have double weddings. First Jana and JD. Then the next day, Jed and Jer. Think of the spectacle. Think of the grifting opportunities. Think of the ratings.

You could launch an entirely new channel with those numbers.

[yogi2014L]

11 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I will never forget watching Jessa chase Hannie down like a dog, and then pushing her down on the floor and forcibly restraining her there.  Because naps must be taken until you're six!!  Even Michelle was bug-eyed at Jessa's forcefulness.  For all the talk of how wonderful Jessa's "spunkiness" is, she sure tried to beat Hannie's spirit down.  I bet Jessa was more than happy to blanket train baby Hannie.  I can see her laying in wait, ready to beat that baby back in line, because rules.

I wonder if Jinger was born an obedient lapdog, or if that came from being BFFs with Jessa.  Sure, the kids are their parent's responsibility, and teenaged girls shouldn't be raising their younger siblings.  But I saw enough scenes of Jordyn sobbing, abandoned attached to the dining room table, and discovered alone outside in the cold, barefoot, to realize Jessa's buddies are lucky to be alive.  I wouldn't treat a stranger's child with such contempt.  I wouldn't treat a dog with such contempt.  I can't like her.  Regardless of the fact that she apparently found a heart, along with compassion and empathy for a child, when she gave birth to her own. 

That is why children shouldn't raise children. Michelle is bug eyed at everything. I don't think Jessa is a bully or bitch because of how she had to care of her younger kids when she was a child herself. She probably raised them the way she was raised, and was too young to know better. 

As an adult I find her smug and self righteous, and woefully ignorant, but I don't hold her treatment of her siblings when SHE was a child against her. even in normal families you have fighting among siblings, sibling rivalry ect- this must have been way worse in the Duggar household due to the insane family dynamics and stress. 

For most people if your younger sibling is annoying you you take a break, go hang out alone ( or get in a fight and get sent to your rooms) Imagine in the Duggar household you have this annoying rugrat that you can't take a break from and are also responsible to care for 24/7....yeah she gets a pass from me at least. All the blame on how her siblings are treated fall squarely on Boob and Michelle. 

If Jessa was too forceful in handling her siblings she should have been removed from that role or at the very least corrected but oh wait her parents are too fucking lazy to do anything themselves!

[Churchhoney]

On 12/22/2016 at 4:10 AM, GeeGolly said:

 

If the Duggar daughters aren't getting proper prenatal care and are planning on home deliveries this time around then they're completely stupid and they better stop with their pro-life stance because the consideration they give they're fetuses is negligible. 

Excellent point.

[queenanne]

15 minutes ago, yogi2014L said:

For most people if your younger sibling is annoying you you take a break, go hang out alone ( or get in a fight and get sent to your rooms) Imagine in the Duggar household you have this annoying rugrat that you can't take a break from and are also responsible to care for 24/7....yeah she gets a pass from me at least. All the blame on how her siblings are treated fall squarely on Boob and Michelle. 

Multiple rugrats - whom you are told you must enjoy, because to do or feel any other way, is Neither Christian Nor Womanly.  Unnatural, ungrateful, sharper than a serpent's tooth, etc.

I'd have gone bugfuck, though then again I'm an introvert who hates too much noise, so worse.

[lascuba]

39 minutes ago, yogi2014L said:

That is why children shouldn't raise children. Michelle is bug eyed at everything. I don't think Jessa is a bully or bitch because of how she had to care of her younger kids when she was a child herself. She probably raised them the way she was raised, and was too young to know better. 

As an adult I find her smug and self righteous, and woefully ignorant, but I don't hold her treatment of her siblings when SHE was a child against her. even in normal families you have fighting among siblings, sibling rivalry ect- this must have been way worse in the Duggar household due to the insane family dynamics and stress. 

For most people if your younger sibling is annoying you you take a break, go hang out alone ( or get in a fight and get sent to your rooms) Imagine in the Duggar household you have this annoying rugrat that you can't take a break from and are also responsible to care for 24/7....yeah she gets a pass from me at least. All the blame on how her siblings are treated fall squarely on Boob and Michelle. 

If Jessa was too forceful in handling her siblings she should have been removed from that role or at the very least corrected but oh wait her parents are too fucking lazy to do anything themselves!

All of this. All the complaints over the years about Jessa not being maternal towards her siblings always struck me as bizarre. The fact that she wasn't maternal meant that she had an innate and proper sense of boundaries. Her siblings are not her children. She took care of their physical needs because it was required of her, but she was under zero moral obligation to treat them as her own children. And I don't recall any incidences of her being too rough with her siblings. She wasn't sweet with them, but then I highly doubt ANY of the sibling-parents were all that sweet and affectionate  with their charges when the cameras were off. Not a single one of them wouldn't wrestle a kid to the ground who was breaking the house rules of nap times or whatever.

[queenanne]

Indeed.  It's possible Jessa (whom I've no love for, we'll just get that outta the way), was in fact afraid of getting her own smackdown from her parents if she didn't ride herd on the kids well enough.  Maybe Michelle's eyes bugged out because she realized she'd then have to explain this child brutality, heh.

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, queenanne said:

Multiple rugrats - whom you are told you must enjoy, because to do or feel any other way, is Neither Christian Nor Womanly.  Unnatural, ungrateful, sharper than a serpent's tooth, etc.

I'd have gone bugfuck, though then again I'm an introvert who hates too much noise, so worse.

Even worse, the only place you might get any peace in that house is in the bathroom with a floor covered in Howler piss.

You have to put up with them 24/7 since you don't have a bedroom, you have a dormitory.

[BitterApple]

48 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Indeed.  It's possible Jessa (whom I've no love for, we'll just get that outta the way), was in fact afraid of getting her own smackdown from her parents if she didn't ride herd on the kids well enough.  Maybe Michelle's eyes bugged out because she realized she'd then have to explain this child brutality, heh.

That's a good point. I've always wondered if Jana is the way she is because Michelle blamed her for what happened to Josh's victims. The oldest kids were all blanket trained, so a ten year-old Jessa would've had vivid memories of what happens when you don't fall in line.