S06.E01: Season 6, Episode 1

[marceline]

I know we are supposed to cheer for Daisy but that girl sure was an idiot in this episode.

I've always found Daisy idiotic and thoughtless but what drove me crazy is that she gave the family a perfect reason to sack her and Robert had just been talking about the need to downsize. Instead of just taking the gift, they keep the little moron on. It's just more of that great Grantham business sense.

[RedHawk]

She looked 60 years old last night, with the horrendous wig and no color on her face. I had to brace myself for the inevitable Bates melodrama  - not one but two murders! and now no babies. I suppose we will be subjected to the melodrama for most of the remaining episodes. Ugh.

 

I liked that the script reminded us that unmarried female servants often went to their graves without sex. Mrs. Patmore and Mrs. Hughes referenced being virgins. Kind of like schoolteachers who were not expected to marry or have sex. A realistic but depressing note in the script.

 

The clothing continues to be extraordinary. Even Mrs. Hughes' dark blue silk was lustrous and rich in the lamplight.

 

I wonder if production piggybacked off an actual fox hunt.

 

Thomas and Mary can compete for who has the palest skin. I think Thomas wins.

I thought all the downstairs lot had a bad case of "prison pallor" and recalled that they weren't often out of doors in daylight and certainly didn't sit in the sun more than 10 minutes a month. Only Daisy and Mrs. Patmore looked "natural". Still, the bad makeup, and especially the beige wig on Anna, was really distracting when the clothing overall and the good makeup and hairstyles on Edith and Mary made them look beautiful. 

 

Oh, Daisy! That outburst was pure Sarah Bunting. I wish the resolution had been that Daisy's FIL told her that there was a time to speak truth to power and a time to quietly await developments, and that he would be ok either way. It was not a sure thing that Mr. Mason would not have a tenancy offered by the new owners, right? Perhaps a shorter one since he was an older man with no son to carry it on. Ridiculous to even have the drama that Daisy might be fired. As if.

 

Loved Mrs. Patmore downing the port. That actress is gold.

 

ETA: Kudos for opening the season with that gorgeous fox hunt! And giggles that Robert felt stiff afterward AND needed a drink (under the disapproving eye of Mr. Carson). 

Edited January 5, 2016 by RedHawk

[kassa]

They have cookies in jars at their bedsides.  That's something, I suppose.

 

I have to disagree with the opinion that Mary’s scandal would have been a temporary thing. Being a widow actually would work against her in a way – if she had married Gillingham, or if the Gillingham thing had happened pre-Matthew and Matthew were still alive, she might get beyond it, as people kind of expected the upper classes to have their sexual escapades – remember Robert and Cora revealing that there was a lot of room swapping at house parties in their youth?  Her husband appearing in public beside her would quiet a lot of it, though of course there would be shame for him in it. 

 

But as an unmarried woman, widow or not, it would have been a field day on Lady Mary.  This weekend I saw an old SNL with a long segment of Weekend Update aimed at Arnold Schwarzenegger for having an affair with the housekeeper.  Now, have I thought about that recently?  No.  Would I remember it if I had cause to socialize with the man, the housekeeper, or any of their children?  Damn right I would. 

 

On top of it they would have resurrected the rumors about Pamuk (which never made super public news, but then nobody was looking to dig then, and I assume by the mid 20s there were a lot more socialite loose lips in night clubs that might reveal a tale or two about Mary’s decadent past).  One sister married the CHAUFFEUR, people, and the other for some reason was left an entire newspaper by a married man whose wife is in an asylum.  That would bear a certain amount of investigation and a whole lot of innuendo.

 

Make no mistake, this would not be idle gossip among the better classes.  In a world where royal scandal was kept out of the papers, they would feast on the lesser nobility.  Especially a beauty like Mary.  She’d be a joke – worse, a punchline, which is damage enough. And George would bear the worst of it, once he were at school at the mercy of other young boys.

 

Also, was anyone else bracing themselves for characters to imply that it wasn't "right" for him to be playing with the children, especially George?  I suppose I shouldn't have worried, since the show tends to pull its punches with homophobia, but I was dreading it all the same.

 

Absolutely. While they’ve basically backed off talking about it, Carson once threw it in his face in a way that showed a pretty vicious (and for the times, probably perfectly commonplace) view of what it meant (forget his exact terminology – it was something Thomas had to refute, at peril of his job.  That he was something grostesque or something).  I don’t see how that wouldn’t have resulted in the side eye when it came to him playing with the children.  (To be clear, I’m speaking of historical characters with the attitudes and prejudices and misconceptions of their times, not my own views)

 

Am I crazy or was the policeman dancing with somebody in the kitchen? 

 

I assumed he will be Mrs. Patmore’s new love interest, since she was so wistful about it.

[CleoCaesar]

Fellowes is introducing too much 2015/2016 Zeitgeist with that whole story. Just a way to work in "sex is for older people too" political correctness lecturing that was not necessary for his audience.

 

Well put. That's exactly what the Carson and Mrs. Hughes storyline feels like. If I want moralizing lectures, I'll watch something other than a frothy period-piece soap opera. This cast is already sorely lacking the younger element: no Matthew, no Tom, no Sybil. (And whatsherface last season was just annoying.) And now we have to sit through plots about geriatric sex. Awesome choice, Fellowes.

[fastiller]

Joining in with all the other hosannas that the Greene story is over! Terminal boredom! But Fellowes and the others must think the Anna is charming when she's in tears, since now she and Bates are having trouble staying pregnant. Give us a break and let them be happy and low-key.

 

 

All I could think during the ep: "the stress of all this Greene-related crap is probably not helping one bit!"

[pasdetrois]

Another thought, regarding the Lady Mary scandal: I posted on another Masterpiece forum that I've finished reading three memoirs that featured English nobility during the 1900 - 1940 period. Some of that crowd was quite racy. Certainly she would have been discreetly gossiped about, but weren't they careful about glass houses and all that?

 

Maybe it was different and more conservative in the north.

[crowceilidh]

I guess the things about the Hughes-Carson romance that I find seriously tedious is that, previously, they had a very deep and very palpable platonic and companionable love.  I don't feel this "romantic" love between them at all.  It seems to have shifted their power balance into a more precarious position too, but that remains to be seen.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Downton Abbey Forces Mary To Atone For Her Premarital Sexcapades
...or, at least, it makes her think, for a while, that she might have to. But that sounds more like an Edith thing, right?

[TheGreenKnight]

 I love Anna, and I adore the actress but I will callously admit that the first laugh I got out of the show last night was when Anna is trudging up the stairs, quietly sobbing, looking like some ghoulish presence was draining the life-blood out of her, starting with her hair, lips all atremble.

It made me laugh, too. Has she been happy at all in 5 seasons? She cries in nearly every scene she's in.

 

I have to admit I enjoyed the premiere very much. Edith, Mary, and Violet all looked lovely. Daisy's actions were foolish (as far as attempting to help Mr. Mason), but I have to admit I clapped when she told Robert that, no, she won't stop. Lord Grantham's and Carson's responses to her were infuriating.

 

Denker and Spratt don't bother me like they do other viewers. They're unlikable, but Denker coming in to lord over Thomas and cause a panic was entertaining at least. I also like the hospital plot. At least, I like the intersection of several characters, including Cora, Merton, and Clarkson. I liked how Isobel dealt with her two suitors. I'm really glad they didn't tie her up with Clarkson back in 3. I know that would've made sense, but he's always annoyed me and him acting sullen and jealous reminded me why.

 

I was struck by how old, cozy, and familiar these characters are during the dinner scene. I loved shots to both Mary and Edith cringing at the sound of the other's voice. At least Edith is giving it back in equal measure.

Edited January 4, 2016 by TheGreenKnight

[izabella]

I don't mind the Hughes/Carson romance and love.  I think it's sweet, and it is actually nice to see older people falling in love on tv because it does really happen in real life.  It's actually nice to SEE older people, period, the kind of older people that have actual wrinkles and stuff, instead of the kind that have distorted their faces into wrinkle-free joker masks via botox and fillers and plastic surgery.   Get your sexy on, Mrs. Hughes!

 

But with the departure of Rose, they really are sorely lacking in younger people on this show, especially younger people having fun and going to parties and getting into trouble at racy 20's underground nightclubs.  Drippy Mary is still drippy, as is sad-sack Edith despite having everything but a husband.  The Bates are still gloomy and doomy. 

 

Daisy and the new footman are the only young ones left, and while I like the new footman, he has no story line and Daisy isn't all that interesting.

[RedHawk]

I guess the things about the Hughes-Carson romance that I find seriously tedious is that, previously, they had a very deep and very palpable platonic and companionable love.  I don't feel this "romantic" love between them at all.  It seems to have shifted their power balance into a more precarious position too, but that remains to be seen.

I don't find it tedious but I hope it doesn't drag on too much. Here's why the new romantic feeling seems plausible to me: They are both nearing "retirement" age and have thoughts and concerns about their future. Carson has money set aside and never planned to work until he dropped because that just wasn't how it was done. Mrs. Hughes had a secret burden -- she had no retirement savings so hoped to stay on as long as possible although surely she was worried she would get sick or start to "slip" mentally and it would be noticed. When they were younger they both had "careers" to put first and little time to think of romance as their roles required them to be single. Carson, as older men do, wants a woman to share his elder years and care for him, so naturally his thoughts turn to his dearest friend Mrs. Hughes, who he assumed was also looking to retire in a few years.

[Amethyst]

The "warts and all" line didn't bother me, either.  Hughes doesn't see herself as some raving beauty (at least at middle age) and her nervousness about being intimate with Carson felt genuine.  It helps that it was well-played by the actors involved.  I don't think she was thrilled with the possibility of being alone, but had made peace with it and this romance with Carson has really taken her by surprise.  She wants to know what she's getting into, for both their sakes. 

 

That said, I didn't initially glean that she and Mrs. Patmore were virgins from their conversation, but very inexperienced.  Although I can see how it would happen for Hughes if she was busy looking after her sister while working full time. 

 

Also, was anyone else bracing themselves for characters to imply that it wasn't "right" for him to be playing with the children, especially George?  I suppose I shouldn't have worried, since the show tends to pull its punches with homophobia, but I was dreading it all the same.

 

The thought did cross my mind.  I'm glad it didn't happen that way, because Thomas seems to genuinely like being around the children.  I thought that was a nice moment.

[Milz]

 

 

I have to disagree with the opinion that Mary’s scandal would have been a temporary thing. Being a widow actually would work against her in a way – if she had married Gillingham, or if the Gillingham thing had happened pre-Matthew and Matthew were still alive, she might get beyond it, as people kind of expected the upper classes to have their sexual escapades – remember Robert and Cora revealing that there was a lot of room swapping at house parties in their youth?  Her husband appearing in public beside her would quiet a lot of it, though of course there would be shame for him in it. 

 

 

The "Double Duchess" carried on with her lover, the Duke of Devonshire, during her marriage and through her widowhood, before marrying him. So I don't think it would have been as big a scandal as the Pamuk scandal would have been or the Marigold scandal would have been. Even if Matthew were alive and Mary had affairs, I don't think it would have been scandalous to their social peers (or Carson who it seems would forgive Mary for anything...including  if she were the perpetrator of the Thames Torso Murders). It would make great gossip, though, for everyone.

[Ohwell]

I don't mind the Hughes/Carson romance and love.  I think it's sweet, and it is actually nice to see older people falling in love on tv because it does really happen in real life.  It's actually nice to SEE older people, period, the kind of older people that have actual wrinkles and stuff, instead of the kind that have distorted their faces into wrinkle-free joker masks via botox and fillers and plastic surgery.   Get your sexy on, Mrs. Hughes!

 

I loved that story line and I'm glad it was addressed.  I hope Mrs. Hughes takes Mrs. Patmore along with her to shop for her wedding trousseau.  Get your sexy on, indeed, Mrs. Hughes!

[Daisy]

I think Robert was referring to Mary not allowing herself to be blackmailed and willing to accept the consequences when he commented she was tough and could run the estate.  And really he's had one daughter who married the chauffeur, another one bedded a man she just met and then he died in her bed, and the third one has an illegitimate child so why should he be shocked that Mary spent a week with Tony.  Surprised maybe but not shocked.

 

Edith has a flat in London and owns a magazine yet she can't decide what to do.  I tell you what I'd like you to do --- MOVE far far away so I don't have to see or hear your sad sack woe is me routine any more.

 

Bring back Sybbie - George and Marigold are just no substitute for her.

 

As always it's worth watching just for the clothes.

 

 

I love you. 

 

that is all. 

[backgroundnoise]

And I don't care about Anna's inability to have a baby, or her fear that it will drive a wedge between her and Bates,

Sigh.  Anna will do everything possible to make this drive a wedge between her and Bates.  All for his own good, of course.

[vadare]

Couldn't wait for this season to start!  Overall I was not disappointed.  I have read everyone's observations (both UK and US).

 

Some random thoughts:

 

1.  Thomas-I actually like nice Thomas.  It just kind of looks like he, all of a sudden, on a dime, decided to be nice.  I was expecting him to be all nasty to Cora's lady's maid (can't remember her name...the one Mr. Moseley is sweet on...the one with the sewing machine) and was happy he wasn't.  They even seem to have developed a kinder rapport.

 

Re:  Thomas and the children-I thought that was super-sweet and I didn't think at all out of place.  The UK version of DA had a scene a few seasons ago (maybe even Season 1?) where Carson recalled an incident when Lady Mary was a child and asked him to lend her money so she could run away, so this, to me, is how these relationships start. It has been discussed on this and, I'm sure, other forums, how much more a "daddy" Carson is to Lady Mary than Robert is.  In 40 years, when George is Lord of the Manor and Thomas is Barrow the Butler, George will be rummaging in the refrigerator telling his wife how Barrow would piggy-back him around the house.  Furthermore, there is a kind of sadness, seeing Thomas playing with the children and knowing that this is the closest to "being a daddy" he will ever get.  It would take a very unusual situation for him to ever be a daddy; he'd either have to go straight or (maybe...and even this is a huge stretch) find a widower with children who now wants to live out of the closet.

 

Re:  Thomas and Andy-Perhaps the other servants are warning Andy to avoid Thomas because Andy is quite good-looking and they all remember what happened when Thomas misread the signals the last footman sent him.

 

2.  Lady Rose-So, the character everyone was afraid would be Cousin Oliver is now the character everyone misses?  My, how times have changed.

 

3.  Lady Edith-ITA--pack up your fabulous wardrobe, gather up Marigold, and move to London.  Gregson just handed you a job and an apartment on a silver platter--QUIT YOUR BELLY-ACHING AND DO IT!  Just make sure you tell Lady Mary to shove it on your way out.

 

4.  Cora-This is just a little thing, but when Robert was digging into the refrigerator for a snack, I thought it was sweet of Cora to admonish him not to eat something intended for the next day.  I can't begin to tell you how that would put Mrs. Patmore out of sorts.

 

5.  Anna/Bates-I love this couple, I really do.  For that reason, I'm totally over all the bad stuff happening to them.  Can we FINALLY get some HAPPINESS into their lives?

 

6.  Tom-I do hope we see him at least one last time before everything wraps up.

 

7.  Decker-Someone upthread (can't remember who) said that someone should have reminded her that her position is resting on the health of an 80-90 year old woman.  ITA...she needs to go.

 

8.  Violet/Isobel-let the games begin!

 

9.  Carson/Mrs. Hughes/Mrs. Patmore-I know that Mrs. Patmore is, technically, a subordinate to Carson, but I think those lines are kind of blurred with time and age, so that didn't occur to me at all.  But I thought it was both odd and cheeky of Mrs. Hughes to ask Mrs. Patmore to ask Carson about...that.  Furthermore, I thought Mrs. Hughes' concern that she isn't a young lady anymore was slightly anachronistic, but maybe not.  However, all of the awkwardness was worth it to get the unbridled declaration of love that Carson proclaimed to Mrs. Patmore.  It left me in tears.  The only problem was that I wish he had said it to Mrs. Hughes.  And I thought their kiss at the end of the episode was sweet...no sloppy tongue hockey, not for these two.  And his kiss on her forehead was made of win.

 

And finally...

 

10.  Lady Mary-wouldn't it be the height of irony if, at the end of the whole show, the one thing everyone was worried about (Lady Mary saving the estate by finding a suitable husband) would be the one thing that doesn't happen?  That, at the end of it all, the estate is saved not because she found a suitable husband, but because she actually managed it properly?

 

On the one hand, can't wait for the next episode.  On the other hand, I'll be sad to see it go at the end.

Edited January 5, 2016 by vadare

[RedHawk]

Speaking of scandals and newspapers, when she was introduced, wild and racy Rose appeared to be "dating" (and possibly sleeping with) a wealthy older gentleman (who quite likely was married). Why did that never hit the papers, even in the form of a "hint" in the gossip columns and why did the Grantham's not go into spasms about how dangerous it was that Rose's dalliance might "get out" and ruin her reputation and chances? Also, publicly dating a black man (a black American jazz singer!) -- wouldn't some sneaky lower-class blackmailer have taken photos of them boating or dining out and threatened Rose with them? After that relationship ended, even though she was best friends with the Prince's mistress, Rose somehow became pure and innocent and the only scandal that neared her was her parents' divorce. Ah well, whatever suits the plot.

 

Widow Mary's week of sin? Pffttt! Lord G ought to be well versed in the ways of blackmailers and have few worries about scandal now that he's weathered loads of it. No wonder he was clever enough to silence The Hat for a few quid and move right along. 

[meep.meep]

I think part of, or all of the problem is that Julian Fellowes wishes it was still 1912. Like in real life.  

 

Well he shouldn't have set this episode in 1925 then.

 

Yeah no more Greene the evil valet plot complications!

 

As soon as the Hughes-Carson wedding night concerns were raised, my daughter and I turned to each other and exclaimed - "They should go on Sex Week!"  It was wasted on Lady Mary.

[KLovestoShop]

I adore Mrs Patmore.  Her character has always been one of my favorite.  The way she tiptoed over the "sex" thing was beyond funny.  If it were me, I'd have said "So, you gonna play hide the cannoli with Mrs Hughes?".  But I was surprised that they didn't do the wedding in the first episode.  I was really thinking that would be part of the opener.  I wonder if Carson and Mrs Hughes will continue to work after the marriage?  From what I know of the times, once a woman marries she leaves service and goes off to take care of her own house.  Actually, did any of the workers, including the men, stay in service if they were married?  I didn't think so.  

 

I wonder if they made Anna look so old to show all the emotional trauma she's been through?  I mean, it's been a terrible time for her, and all that stuff would age anyone.  But she did look at least 60 years old.

 

Did anyone watch the pre-shows about Edwardian times?  I think those shows explained the why's and wherefores about how the staff worked and why someone like Anna was so important.  I never realized that they changed their clothes up to six times a day !!!!!   While I didn't understand why Anna had to brush Mary's hair so much in yesterday's episode, I can see having help changing clothes.  The rules for Edwardian times were severe and could not be changed, including how one dresses.  Can you imagine having to change just because you're going out for a walk, and then change for lunch and again for tea and again for dinner?  I think they did kind of show this yesterday when Mary was in so many outfits, including her riding frock.     

 

Redhawk, I think back when Rose was doing her thing with the married man and with the jazz singer, the tabloids weren't around then, but by 1925, the press began to realize that sordid stories sold newspapers, and that's when they began to publish scandals about the upper crust.

Edited January 4, 2016 by KLovestoShop

[RedHawk]

2.  Lady Rose-So, the character everyone was afraid would be Cousin Oliver is now the character everyone misses?  My, how times have changed.

 

 

So true! But as I noted above, the Rose we were introduced to became something of a different Rose as the show moved on. I didn't like her when she was introduced or when she was dating the jazz singer -- she was all about acting out and it was annoying. Her changed personality in her second season was refreshing and added a lot to the series. Plus, I love her parents as characters!

[teddysmom]

I didn't understand her distress over the miscarriage.  If I were facing life imprisonment or possible hanging, a baby would be the last thing I would want.  I'm so sick of those two.

 

Did she have miscarriages or just late periods?  I was half asleep and the whole hysterical outburst made me so disgusted with Fellowes' lack of imagination when it comes to writing for Anna and Bates that I stopped paying attention.

 

She said three times she thought she was pregnant and wasn't?  Or was pregnant and then had a miscarriages?  And Bates has no clue about this?

 

Sounds like the kind of marriage Mrs. Hughes is looking for.  "The less he sees or knows what goes on in my bathing suit area, the better". 

[persey]

I didn't understand her distress over the miscarriage.  If I were facing life imprisonment or possible hanging, a baby would be the last thing I would want.  I'm so sick of those two.

Maybe that was Anna's cunning plan. She couldn't be hanged while pregnant ("pleading her belly"), so she was crying because she'd swing sooner than she'd hoped.

[RedHawk]

I didn't think Mrs. Hughes worrying about her looks and not being young anymore was anachronistic at all. Women have always cared how they look to the men they love, and she was wistfully remembering that she had been pretty enough in her younger years. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by RedHawk

[Constantinople]

I know we are supposed to cheer for Daisy but that girl sure was an idiot in this episode.

I highly doubt that. Julian Fellows hates the lower classes overstepping their bounds. Only the grateful and loyal servants are the servants that get rewarded. The loud and angry ones are either mellowed into strong supporters (Tom Branson) or suffer (Ethel, Thomas).

I agree that the lower classes are supposed to know their place, but there doesn't seem much correlation between behavior and reward in the JF universe.

We've just wrapped-up 3+ seasons of the murderous Bateses during which Bates was sentenced to death and served hard time for a murder he didn't commit and Anna was the main suspect in another murder after being raped by the victim. Yet no one has been more loyal and grateful than those two.

Given that Thomas was going to be sacked for theft at the end of Season 1, it's absurd that he's still employed at Downton, much less the underbutler.

O'Brien killed the prospective future Earl of Grantham and nothing happened to her (though I suppose being the lady's maid to the Marchioness of Flintshire is its own punishment).

Lang was shitcanned for suffering from PTSD brought about by serving in WWI (you didn't see the Bellamys doing that).

Until now, I don't recall Daisy talking or acting out of turn, and she turned down the opportunity to work at Mason's farm, yet she was strong-armed into marrying a man she didn't love and blown off by Alfred who had eyes for Ivy. She's been diligent and has nothing to show for it.

Gwen didn't give three shakes of a rat's ankle about being a servant and blew off work to go an interview, yet she got her dream job and last I heard had gotten married.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Constantinople

[Temperance]

I'm confused by what is going with Anna. Everyone keeps saying she had a miscarriage, but what she said is "I thought I was pregnant, but then this morning..." My interpretation of that line is she either has a regularly irregular cycle and/or that her period was late, or she thought/hoped she might be. I didn't read that as miscarriages necessarily. I don't understand Bates's a house full of kids idea. They have jobs that would leave them almost no time for their family, but if they quit their jobs, then they have no income to support a family.

I didn't like the blackmailer simply because to me it was all old news. If this show has a problem, it's a tendency to work backward.

I like Carson and Mrs. Hughes storyline. I think part of it was also how she is nervous about her body in terms of just being an older woman and the affects of age on the body. It was sweet, but I felt sorry for Mrs. Patmore caught in the middle although Mrs. Patmore handled it beautifully.

I liked the party for the Bates.

[vadare]

Maybe that was Anna's cunning plan. She couldn't be hanged while pregnant ("pleading her belly"), so she was crying because she'd swing sooner than she'd hoped.

 

Had not thought of that...but it would have been a very good plan on her part.  That and I think she really does want to have children with Bates.

[MakeMeLaugh]

This show--sets, costumes, hair--looks gorgeous but geez.

Why didn't Mrs Hughes unload her concerns to Cora who would then tell Robert who would then tell Carson? And then maybe we'd have had some reference to Carson's plumbing not being the able to fulfill HIS marital duties. Because he's probably no stallion in the sack any more. And so uncomfortable that one old female virgin asks another old female virgin to solve the issue.

Anna needed to refer us, perhaps in a heart to heart with Mrs. Hughes re the above marital duties, back to the quite violent rape she endured from that visiting servant--scar tissue and general reproductive issues could have resulted. Then we might care about her uterus. If Bates was a more compelling character I might actually care about him but ugh.

Thomas's treatment by Show is just too politically correct 2015--in 1925 homosexuality was a crime, and I imagine in those unenlightened times he would have been kept far far away from any male children, but no, not in Downton Abbey.

I wish Daisy had been fired--such public insubordination to her employers when they told her to shut up. But no, it's not really 1925 in Downton Abbey.

I still miss O'Brien. I hope Gregson returns--it's a soap opera, the earlier reports of his death are easily explainable. And could we just see Matthew Goode like every five minutes from now on?

And once again, Maggie Smith steals the whole show.

[peggy06]

Yes, we loved that one, too when it aired in the UK, LOL. So stupid!

 

I hated the Hughes/Carson storyline. I felt uncomfortable for Mrs Patmore and Mrs Hughes and really for everyone involved. Urgh.

 

Thomas and George was cute.

 

I laughed when we were mere minutes into the show and Anna was already crying! LOL

That wasn't the reason, though. It was her determination to face out the blackmailer even though it would have been hugely embarrassing for her, and maybe worse than embarrassing.

[Midnight Cheese]

Mrs. Hughes, Mrs. Patmore, the Dowager Countess and Lady Mary always bring it for me.  Michelle Dockery in that dark teal with the jeweled band around her forehead - so gorgeous!  The pacing and plotting aren't enjoyable for me anymore but I know I'm in it 'til the end.  The clothes, the lighting, the sets and the hounds are enough for me to put up with a thousand Roberts and Coras.

 

However...I can't abide Edith.  Never could, never will.  She's more selfish and shitty IMO than most everyone else on this series, has been more of a bitch than anyone by a country mile (hello institutionalized wife!  How's it hanging, wife of the farmer/temporary mom to Marigold?  Lady Mary, my slu- uh, wait I'm a victim, my sister, I'm writing another letter, I mean Important Newspaper Article, about your life, I mean about women!  Why are you so mean to me???).  I CANNOT STAND her character.  She's got terrible character and by accident, because certainly he no longer writes with nuance, Fellowes has scripted in Edith a quintessential perfect  victim.  She's a total asshole who feels totally sorry for herself and everything including her kid and her family of origin is subordinate to that.  She's every vicious sad-sack you've ever met.  Barforama. 

[ZoloftBlob]

O'Brien killed the prospective future Earl of Grantham and nothing happened to her (though I suppose being the lady's maid to the Marchioness of Flintshire is its own punishment).

 

To be fair, I think O'Brien would have faced a much harsher punishment if Lady or Lord G had known she had intentionally left the soap on the floor to harm Lady G.

 

I mean, my point here is that Robert and Cora did nothing to punish O'Brien because they never knew Cora's miscarriage was caused by O'Brien. The only one who knew about it was maybe Thomas, and certainly Bates.... and Bates never ratted her out despite his threats

[Pattycake2]

Is it impossible for Anna to be happy for one minute?  Honestly, she's just been cleared of attempted murder and wah-wah.

[izabella]

9.  Lady Mary-wouldn't it be the height of irony if, at the end of the whole show, the one thing everyone was worried about (Lady Mary saving the estate by finding a suitable husband) would be the one thing that doesn't happen?  That, at the end of it all, the estate is saved not because she found a suitable husband, but because she actually managed it properly?

 

Mary already did all that, though.  The reason no one gives a damn about Mary getting married again is because she married Matthew, the heir to Downton and gave birth to George, future heir of Downton.  Matthew left Mary everything, so she doesn't need a new husband's money, and as long as nothing happens to little George before HE grows up to make his own heir, Downton is safely in the family's hands and Mary is free to "love 'em and leave 'em" - she has fulfilled her marital and heir-making duties to save Downton (thanks to Lavinia's father's money, of course).

[stillshimpy]

The "Double Duchess" carried on with her lover, the Duke of Devonshire, during her marriage and through her widowhood, before marrying him. So I don't think it would have been as big a scandal as the Pamuk scandal would have been or the Marigold scandal would have been. Even if Matthew were alive and Mary had affairs, I don't think it would have been scandalous to their social peers (or Carson who it seems would forgive Mary for anything...including  if she were the perpetrator of the Thames Torso Murders). It would make great gossip, though, for everyone.

 

Seriously, the twenties roared in both Europe and the United States, Mary would have to try a lot harder to invite the pearl clutching of a nation than having a week-long-tryst with a guy who wasn't married at the time.  

 

But in fairness to the show they didn't actually attempt to play it off as if Mary was particularly concerned about it all.  She seemed mildly strained for a good...or two or three minutes at least ...and even Lord Grantham was fairly dismissive of the whole "Oh we're ruined!" possibilities by -- quite rightfully -- pointing out that if even half the things written about the Edwardians were true that Mary's week long sexual encounter would hardly rate a raised eyebrow, let alone something over which she would pay to silence.  The only reason it would matter -- because Mary doesn't even pretend to give half a hang about wanting to marry again -- is some potential embarrassment for George when he's old enough to be teased at school and even then, an affair that didn't ruin any marriages, lead to any divorces, or anyone losing a fortune but instead consisted of the "Oh shocking, grown people in their mid-thirties had sex" ....when the scene even had Lord Grantham acknowledging that it wouldn't matter unless you were Tony and Mabel ...the show was copping to the "Yeah, we know...but we wanted to hand Lord Grantham a win as a father to both Edith and Mary."  

 

I mean, the guy has deduced that Marigold is Edith's daughter....which would already be rumored, by the way....so it's not exactly even the most "Zounds! Have you heard the news?!?" type of social scuttlebutt.  Edith adopting the ward of a tenant farmer and absolutely everyone in the North of England not catching on that the little girl, who looks a lot like her, and fits precisely with a trip out of the country on Edith's part in terms of Marigold's age, would be highly improbable.  But combine that with "inherited this guy's business and is running it" and yeah, you wouldn't need to be an estate manager to do that math. 

 

Mary going to the bone-zone with Tony isn't even the biggest current "So much for our good name, what are you gonna do?  Bottoms up!" thing they have going on at present. 

 

Fetching Hat Impertinent Girl should have thought to blackmail Tony, who is actually married and could have been accused of all sorts of caddish behavior (that no one would have cared about either) would have been the smarter bet. 

 

However, all of that ignores the very, very obvious:  So they signed their real names to that register, eh?  Yeah, everyone would already know.  They had adjoining rooms and even though everyone would have figured it out if they cared, it's not like a register page is a smoking gun, all it would do is start a rumor that would...again...rank about fifth in all the shit Mary's already gotten up to that already ruined her reputation. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by stillshimpy

[caligirl50]

I love Sarah Bunting's posts...this one was a great one.  

 

Thinking about it, I think the point of Robert saying what he said to Mary about her being able to run the Kingdom after paying off the bitch in the hat was that she knows herself well enough to stand by what is right for her and won't be swayed. Maybe that was the point? I know this is a thin argument because it really is kind of dumb but there you go.

 

Also, how utterly stupid was missy blackmailer for "flouncing" into Downton, pushing her way past everyone when she was blackmailing a member of the house?  Did she not know it was illegal?  She being a chambermaid in her former career, thinks she can win over a Lord and Lady and nothing will happen?  She had a lot of anger toward Mary...for what reason?  Because Mary had everything that crabby face didn't?  Even when she is leaving she is seething with hate.  Who bonds with a maid when they are staying at a hotel for 4 nights?  Did she want to be become best girlfriends and Mary didn't notice her?  Again, kind of dumb.

Edited January 4, 2016 by caligirl50

[lucindabelle]

Wishing it were still vacation so quoting everybody's posts and replying!

Robert and Carson should get their own spinoff. They could call it "Donk and the Old Booby."

But Mrs. Hughes! But Elsie!

Seriously though I'd be happy to have a Christmas special for the rest of time. One a year. It's funny, in America we always stretch out the "mystery" shows too long, or the showrunners clearly began without figuring it all out, like "The 4400," like "Revenge" (WHY didn't they can that stupid show before the whole syndicate nonsense).

 

But this being a family drama, in reality, family stories don't end. So they could reasonably keep it going so long as actors were willing. I'd be curious to follow Tom in Boston. See how they adjust to WWII.

 

I mean it's wonderful to know and to SEE that people from the Edwardian age didn't just somehow vanish when swing and jazz became the norm. They were people in their 60s.

 

The people in "A Room with a View" would have been around then. The girls from "Howard's End" would be in thier 70s or 80s.. dowager countess' age.. during CARNABY STREET.

 

I'd love, love, love a show to do that, because people forget. My own father was born in 1920-- he died in 2007. He went from coal stove heating whole apartment, to serving in WWII, to computers and microwaves.

 

I'd love to see more of them adjusting. They probably would leave the Abbey itself but the family would continue and really, that's why I watch.

 

 

 

 

Isn't afternoon tea kind of just a fancy snack time? 

 

Actually, with dinner at 8:30 or 9, "tea" is more like a small meal.

Well put. That's exactly what the Carson and Mrs. Hughes storyline feels like. If I want moralizing lectures, I'll watch something other than a frothy period-piece soap opera. This cast is already sorely lacking the younger element: no Matthew, no Tom, no Sybil. (And whatsherface last season was just annoying.) And now we have to sit through plots about geriatric sex. Awesome choice, Fellowes.

 

Nobody is forcing you to watch plots about "geriatric sex." Turn the channel. Sex between human beings is not suddenly laughable or "moralizing" because they are older than you. It wasn't about sex at all but nerves and insecurity. This reaction sounds a bit like "ew, mommy and daddy did it" to me. I'm very glad we ARE getting this-- this type of response shows how clearly it's needed. There's no particular reason why a great show has to have younger characters.

 

I guess the things about the Hughes-Carson romance that I find seriously tedious is that, previously, they had a very deep and very palpable platonic and companionable love.  I don't feel this "romantic" love between them at all.  It seems to have shifted their power balance into a more precarious position too, but that remains to be seen.

 

I do-- I think there have been little signs of it. Remember how he sang when he learned she was not going to die? He's been falling for her, slowly, for years.

Speaking of scandals and newspapers, when she was introduced, wild and racy Rose appeared to be "dating" (and possibly sleeping with) a wealthy older gentleman (who quite likely was married). Why did that never hit the papers, even in the form of a "hint" in the gossip columns and why did the Grantham's not go into spasms about how dangerous it was that Rose's dalliance might "get out" and ruin her reputation and chances? Also, publicly dating a black man (a black American jazz singer!) -- wouldn't some sneaky lower-class blackmailer have taken photos of them boating or dining out and threatened Rose with them? After that relationship ended, even though she was best friends with the Prince's mistress, Rose somehow became pure and innocent and the only scandal that neared her was her parents' divorce. Ah well, whatever suits the plot.

 

 

Not to mention that black man could. not. sing.

Their kissing in the boat was ridiculous.

But Rose, who began so scandalously, ended as sunny, sweet, obliging and decent. Actually, the actress always played her that way. After the London married man thing, she still greeted the Crawleys with joy when they arrived at Duneagles.

It's a character you just hardly ever see on TV-- someone truly, sweetly, NICE.

I thought Megan on Mad Men started out that way but she devolved.

So true! But as I noted above, the Rose we were introduced to became something of a different Rose as the show moved on. I didn't like her when she was introduced or when she was dating the jazz singer -- she was all about acting out and it was annoying. Her changed personality in her second season was refreshing and added a lot to the series. Plus, I love her parents as characters!

 

 

   1925 homosexuality was a crime, and I imagine in those unenlightened times he would have been kept far far away from any male children, but no, not in Downton Abbey.

I still miss O'Brien. I hope Gregson returns--it's a soap opera, the earlier reports of his death are easily explainable. And could we just see Matthew Goode like every five minutes from now on?

And once again, Maggie Smith steals the whole show.

Yes, yes and yes.

The Thomas "I'm not vile, I'm not like you but I'm not vile," is ahistorical (and in fairness later he does send away for a quack cure). He'd have thought himself Bad and tried to resist.

Robert's shrug-- ahistorical. "Grantchester," set in the late 50s, had a kid arrested for homosexuality and his father was just beyond.

 

I still wish for return of Gregson.

 

And yay for Maggie Smith. She's not merely snarky, she clearly has a kindness and delivers her snark with a light, bewildered tone. That's what makes her so funny and so lovable. If she were just nasty she wouldn't be entertaining. Instead she says these things quite seriously, is it cold up there on the moral high ground? Hee.

[KLovestoShop]

If you've ever experience High Tea in London, you'd know that it was more than just schneckins.   You start off with tea sandwiches and other savories and move on to the sweets, including scones with clotted cream and freshly made strawberry jam.  And I'm not talking miserly tiny treats, but very well made and substantial sandwiches---of course with no crusts, lol.  

 

For all their talk of being painstakingly authentic, there are lots of things that don't seem to be anywhere that way.  No way would Rose be allowed to be consorting with a black man in public, so her little river boating would not be allowed.  And I wonder, would any high ranking family knowingly employ a gay person?  Knowing that it was illegal back then, I just can't see a real Earl hiring a homosexual once that secret was out.  

[Diane M]

Anna/Bates-I love this couple, I really do.  For that reason, I'm totally over all the bad stuff happening to them.  Can we FINALLY get some HAPPINESS into their lives?  

We seem to be in the minority about liking this couple, but I've loved them from the start.  I wish the Green mystery hadn't been so long to solve, but at least it's now over.  And I think John Bates has proven that he's a good man and a devoted husband.  He'd like to have children, but he tried so hard in Episode One to prove to Anna that she was more important to him and that they should just be thankful that she is free and they should be happy just to be together.

From what I know of the times, once a woman marries she leaves service and goes off to take care of her own house.

Perhaps it depended on the relationships between the servants and their employers. I think Anna and Bates were such valuable servants that Robert and Cora would not have let them go.  Of course, if and when a baby arrived, I can't image letting Anna let her offspring tag along when she was working. 

 

Did she have miscarriages or just late periods?

 

She was late several times, but I think she was a little early in thinking she'd never get pregnant, especially when the policeman gave them the good news.  She would be able to relax and try again.

 

I wonder if they made Anna look so old to show all the emotional trauma she's been through?  I mean, it's been a terrible time for her, and all that stuff would age anyone.  But she did look at least 60 years old.

 

Yes, I think she did age more quickly, and that's what they meant to show, but I think they overdid it with the dull wig.

 

I don't understand Bates's a house full of kids idea. They have jobs that would leave them almost no time for their family, but if they quit their jobs, then they have no income to support a family

 

When they got married, Bates said his dream for the future was to buy a small hotel that they could run themselves.

[Driad]

If I cared whether Anna and Bates have a baby, I would wonder whether Bates had caught a STD during WWI.  It was fairly common at that time for men to return and infect their wives.  The people might not notice any symptoms, and never seek treatment (if there was treatment).  Often the infection would make the woman infertile.  She might have one baby but no more after that.

 

My ancestors in 1925 probably would not have recognized a refrigerator either, but that was because they were poor and had no electricity anyway.  Mrs. Patmore is my favorite.  Don't upset her, Robert!

[Roseanna]

If I cared whether Anna and Bates have a baby, I would wonder whether Bates had caught a STD during WWI.  It was fairly common at that time for men to return and infect their wives.  The people might not notice any symptoms, and never seek treatment (if there was treatment).  Often the infection would make the woman infertile.  She might have one baby but no more after that.

Bates didn't fight in WW1 but (with Lord Grantham) in some earlier war (Boer war?).

[Driad]

Thank you, Roseanna.  Bates could have caught an STD in that earlier war.  Not saying he did, just a possibility.

[Terrafamilia]

My enjoyment of the Patmore/Carson scenes was undercut by the decision to use shaky-cam in filming them. It drove me nuts.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Thank you, Roseanna. Bates could have caught an STD in that earlier war. Not saying he did, just a possibility.

Not Saint Bates :). That would have made him a teeny bit interesting if he had had a randy side to him in his youth.

Edited January 4, 2016 by MakeMeLaugh

[jschoolgirl]

I also wonder if Robert being so "whacked" that he had to rest, and telling Mary "don't tell your mother" portends some health crisis for him. Or his death.

[PRgal]

If I cared whether Anna and Bates have a baby, I would wonder whether Bates had caught a STD during WWI.  It was fairly common at that time for men to return and infect their wives.  The people might not notice any symptoms, and never seek treatment (if there was treatment).  Often the infection would make the woman infertile.  She might have one baby but no more after that.

 

My ancestors in 1925 probably would not have recognized a refrigerator either, but that was because they were poor and had no electricity anyway.  Mrs. Patmore is my favorite.  Don't upset her, Robert!

 

Heck, my 1925 ancestors wouldn't either.  And they WEREN'T poor (my great-grandmother was one of three or four sister wives and that family had indentured servants).  They just weren't seen much in Macau/Hong Kong/China.  Even middle class homes didn't really see them until the mid-to-late 60s. Before that, they were only in restaurants and homes of the super-wealthy. 

[lucindabelle]

In the '80s every english person I knew had a teeny refrigerator, half size.

And many places in Ireland didn't have electricity until the '60s...

[SoSueMe]

Adding Mrs. Patmore into those Carson/Mrs. Hughes scenes was genius.  Poignant and hilarious at the same time.

 

I'm so over Anna and Bates that I literally couldn't remember who she was accused of killing.  The only person who came to mind was Bates' ex-wife.

 

I still hate Edith, but she wasn't around enough to really bother me in this one.

 

And like Carson, there is nothing Mary could ever do that I would condemn her for.   She's been my favorite since day one, and I hope she gets a great ending.

I am not a fan of Edith either. I feel sorry for the actress, they really do not use makeup to her advantage, I seriously visualize a certain Popeye character everytime she is on screen.

[angora]

Absolutely. While they’ve basically backed off talking about it, Carson once threw it in his face in a way that showed a pretty vicious (and for the times, probably perfectly commonplace) view of what it meant (forget his exact terminology – it was something Thomas had to refute, at peril of his job.  That he was something grostesque or something).  I don’t see how that wouldn’t have resulted in the side eye when it came to him playing with the children.  (To be clear, I’m speaking of historical characters with the attitudes and prejudices and misconceptions of their times, not my own views)

That scene with Carson is exactly the reason why I'm not the biggest stickler for historical accuracy on this front.  I mean, yes, it's not remotely plausible that Thomas would have gotten out of the Jimmy-kiss situation half as well as he did, but hearing Carson calling himself sympathetic because it wasn't Thomas's FAULT he'd been "twisted by nature into something foul" was ROUGH.  If someone like Anna or Mrs. Hughes had expressed a (for that time, probably widely-held) view to that effect, I'm not sure I could've kept watching.  At the same time, while I don't want to see characters I like saying horrible things, it's jarring to see the pendulum swing so far the other way, where it's just not credible for 1925.

 

All I could think during the ep: "the stress of all this Greene-related crap is probably not helping one bit!"

Very true.  Take some time to breathe now that the Greene drama is finally over, and who knows what might happen?

[persey]

If you've ever experience High Tea in London, you'd know that it was more than just schneckins.   You start off with tea sandwiches and other savories and move on to the sweets, including scones with clotted cream and freshly made strawberry jam.  And I'm not talking miserly tiny treats, but very well made and substantial sandwiches---of course with no crusts, lol.  

High tea is a working class meal; it's essentially supper. Substantial and with meat, if the family budget can afford it. The upper class meal of dainties is either just tea or afternoon tea.

[magdalene]

I think Mary would have been okay. Widows having lovers was tolerated. Even married women being promiscuous was tolerated, as long as they had popped out an heir and a spare first and were discreet about their affairs. It's the not yet married girls and the never married women who couldn't just take a lover without becoming labelled as "fallen" women.

 

Plus this is the Roaring Twenties, very different from the Victorian age.