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S06.E01: Season 6, Episode 1

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No reason why the servants should be so panicky about being let go. They would be snapped up in a minute by other upper-class people. By the 1920s, fewer people were entering service and those who remained could call the shots. Frankly, if I were Daisy, I would take my cooking skills to the latest hotels and restaurants in London. I'm surprise more servants aren't resigning anyway to explore opportunities in the big city.

 

I must say Lord and Lady Grantham are pretty cool about both their thirty-something daughters staying single. No nagging or hints like 'You're not getting any younger' or even any attempt to matchmake.

 

I too would love a flashforward to WWII with George, Marigold and Sybbie.

 

I thought the show made it clear that Pamuk was lying when he said Mary would still be a virgin for her husband. I think he just...deflowered her and lied that nobody would be able to know.

 

 

At first, I thought Pamuk was referring to 'alternative' stuff but Mary did act as if she did lose her virginity when she spoke to Matthew about that encounter.

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At first, I thought Pamuk was referring to 'alternative' stuff but Mary did act as if she did lose her virginity when she spoke to Matthew about that encounter.

Julian Fellows has explained it in his scriptbook to season 1. There was a line that was cut, in which Pamuk suggested Mary using a "Phial of blood" to fake virginity on her wedding night.

Julian Fellows was mad that the line was cut and fought for it, but was overruled. They told him, that no one would get the wrong idea because of that one missing line, but - as this thread shows - a lot of people did!

So yes, Mary lost her virginity to Pamuk and it was just goood plain old missonary sex and nothing adventurous.

Edited by Andorra
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No reason why the servants should be so panicky about being let go. They would be snapped up in a minute by other upper-class people. By the 1920s, fewer people were entering service and those who remained could call the shots. Frankly, if I were Daisy, I would take my cooking skills to the latest hotels and restaurants in London. I'm surprise more servants aren't resigning anyway to explore opportunities in the big city.

 

I must say Lord and Lady Grantham are pretty cool about both their thirty-something daughters staying single. No nagging or hints like 'You're not getting any younger' or even any attempt to matchmake.

The servants ARE resigning. Carson said so. One to get married, but the implication is that they were working in hotels and restaurants. That's what Madge was doing. Plus Gwen and Alfred.

As for Mary and Edith not marrying, Robert did try to push her onto boring Gillingham. And Mary made is clear she wasn't going to settle and was fine being single, so there's nothing Robert could do. As for Edith, she was a sad uggo even in her youth, and they never expected her to marry even then. Now she's in her thirties with a child, I'm sure Robert feels it is never going to happen no matter what.

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I must say Lord and Lady Grantham are pretty cool about both their thirty-something daughters staying single. No nagging or hints like 'You're not getting any younger' or even any attempt to matchmake.

 

Not a suprise they don't nag Mary - she *was* married, she did produce an heir, and then was actively dating men. Aside from Mary wanting a companion, there's really no pressure for her to marry quickly . She's already performed and isn't actively disdaining the idea of remarriage.

 

And Edith... why would they bother now when she's damaged goods when they didn't bother before?

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Somewhere back in season one Lord and Lady Grantham discussed their daughters - this is what they had to say about Edith:

Poor old Edith. - What a ghastly thing to say. - I'm afraid Edith will be the one to look after us in our old age. (The last line was Mylady's.)

They always considered her a lost cause.

Edited by MissLucas
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I thought we were gearing up for a Bates adoption story, but can you imagine how that interview would go?  "What are your long term child care plans for the next time one or both of you is accused of murder?".  No one would give these two an innocent baby.  I adored them, and now they are just pathetic.

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Aww I think they're sweet. I love the way he looks at her. And he really is kind of a badass, when the show lets him be.

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I must say Lord and Lady Grantham are pretty cool about both their thirty-something daughters staying single. No nagging or hints like 'You're not getting any younger' or even any attempt to matchmake.

Wasn't there a lot more women than men of Mary and Edith's generation? The Grantham's may not think there are any more eligible men for their daughters to marry.

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Wasn't there a lot more women than men of Mary and Edith's generation? The Grantham's may not think there are any more eligible men for their daughters to marry.

Yes, there were. Which is why it never made any sense Mary having countless suitors at her feet while Tom was unable to meet one decent woman. Normally it would have been the other way round and Tom would have his pick, working class origins or not. With his job, his good connections etc, he would have been a good match for a middleclass woman and so he would have been sought after.

Mary on the other hand was over 30, which was considered past her bloom then and she has a fortune bound to her son, that will always come first for her. She would never leave Downton and every titled aristocrat with his own estate and fortune would not be willing to marry her, because of this. He would need to have his own heir and to manage his own fortune.

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Mary on the other hand was over 30, which was considered past her bloom then and she has a fortune bound to her son, that will always come first for her. She would never leave Downton and every titled aristocrat with his own estate and fortune would not be willing to marry her, because of this. He would need to have his own heir and to manage his own fortune.

 

And to be fair, I could see Mary being quite the catch to the untitled younger son crowd because she has moneyand her own estate, but yes, that Gillingham - who needs his own heir, and Blake, who needs his own heir and who has an estate in Ireland, or even Evelyn Napier who also will need an heir for his own estate....

 

At the same time, I could see a bunch of Sir Richard types (and Talbot falls into this although) being very interested in a woman who brings a boost in position to the table. Sure, your kids won't get the estate but they will get the foot in to the higher society. Mary shouldn't be beating off titled men, she should be worried that she's surrounded by fortune hunters.

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Mind you, the show won't likely go there and hasn't, as Mary has been surrounded by titled men with estates who simply want to bask in Lady Mary's essense.... but where are the upper middle class social climbers.

 

That'd actually be fun to see.

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Somewhere back in season one Lord and Lady Grantham discussed their daughters - this is what they had to say about Edith:

Poor old Edith. - What a ghastly thing to say. - I'm afraid Edith will be the one to look after us in our old age. (The last line was Mylady's.)

They always considered her a lost cause.

Showed they at least had the awareness that there was no damn chance Mary would develop any sort of compassionate filial care taking aspect to her. Edited by shipperx
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Mind you, the show won't likely go there and hasn't, as Mary has been surrounded by titled men with estates who simply want to bask in Lady Mary's essense.... but where are the upper middle class social climbers.

 

That'd actually be fun to see.

It would. We've actually seen that twice, sort of. The gay Duke from the pilot who wanted Mary for her money, and Sir Richard Carlisle who wanted Mary for her title.

 

I don't see how they'd do it, though. There could be a plot where Mary falls for a guy and doesn't realize he doesn't really care about her, but Mary as written would NEVER be that socially clueless. And since she doesn't seem to care about getting married, there would be no reason for her to mess around with any fortune hunter. Which is the problem with giving a character everything they want. There's no place for drama. 

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I don't see how they'd do it, though. There could be a plot where Mary falls for a guy and doesn't realize he doesn't really care about her, but Mary as written would NEVER be that socially clueless. And since she doesn't seem to care about getting married, there would be no reason for her to mess around with any fortune hunter. Which is the problem with giving a character everything they want. There's no place for drama.

 

On the other hand, wouldn't it be a comeuppance for Mary to make a serious mistake about a guy? I mean, who is this Henry Talbot? Why, a non titled, apparently not rich fellow and hmm... he's nosing around a rich lady widow....

 

Oh wait... pretty sure he's gonna die in a car wreck because you know, why the fuck not?

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Wasn't there a lot more women than men of Mary and Edith's generation? The Grantham's may not think there are any more eligible men for their daughters to marry.

 

That's part of it, I'm sure, but I think more importantly, right now the property is sorted. Mary's son is the heir, which allows His Lordship to continue in the life to which he is accustomed. Mary getting married would only muddy the waters, as we saw when she almost married Jorah Mormont. She'd have to probably move away, or her new husband would get all bossy and take over the house. Either way, not fun for Lord Robert.

 

At their ages they are not really considered all that marriageable anyway. Girls married young in those days.There is no more interest in Mary marrying at this point, than there is in getting Violet or Isobel married off.

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Heh ("Jorah Mormont"). 

 

Well, I wouldn't go quite that far, but Mary does seem quite happy to have the pressure off. I at least want her to have a fun and sexy dalliance with someone, though. 

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That's part of it, I'm sure, but I think more importantly, right now the property is sorted. Mary's son is the heir, which allows His Lordship to continue in the life to which he is accustomed. Mary getting married would only muddy the waters, as we saw when she almost married Jorah Mormont. She'd have to probably move away, or her new husband would get all bossy and take over the house. Either way, not fun for Lord Robert.

At their ages they are not really considered all that marriageable anyway. Girls married young in those days.There is no more interest in Mary marrying at this point, than there is in getting Violet or Isobel married off.

The other thought is that Mary would seem like a catch to a younger son or an aristocrat whose family no longer has their estate. Marrying Mary and living at Downton would feel like the ideal set up for a certain kind of man (like Tony Gillingham. )

ETA

The Carlisle situation was different. They needed their own house because Matthew and Lavinia were still in the picture.

Edited by Avaleigh
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The premiere wasn't too eventful but this show is still like comfort food to me.  I don't mind just watching these characters be.

 

The blackmail lady was pretty infuriating to watch.  I thought Robert's comment about Mary being able to run the estate after the encounter was bizarre as well.

 

I thought maybe Anna would kill the blackmailer after she escorted her out, and the murder subplot would continue, but thank goodness no.  I used to love Anna but the character has been written as much too weepy.  The blond color of her hair seems unnatural for some reason.

 

Violet's comment about ruling by fear and Isobel's horrified response was gold.

 

I liked seeing Edith considering living in London.  Daisy's outburst was brash but I wouldn't mind seeing more of Mr. Mason.

 

The whole Carson and Mrs. Hughes stuff was cringeworthy, though Mrs. Patmore was very funny.  I wish they never set this wedding thing.  Sometimes, friendship is sweeter.

 

All this "You can have me" / "I'm disappointing you that I can't have a baby" stuff feels so dated.  

 

All in all, I'm glad the show is back and I know I'll miss it when it's gone

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There wasn't a lot to captivate the viewer here. Since this was a season-opening episode, I expected a better set up. Perhaps the worst thing I can say about this episode is that it didn't entice me to immediately watch Episode 2. There is no "hook."

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I'm turning sentimental - for all that I thought last season (the season of Mary's suitors) were dull, I got all misty-eyed at the beginning of the theme music. I too loved that Edith was planning on moving to London, at least part-time, and I loved her and Rosamund's moment. I'm glad she's somebody's favourite in the family (and I still entertain the idea that she's actually Rosamund's daughter - at least in my mind).

 

I'm in the US, but I saw the premiere at a local theater during Christmastime. Nevertheless, I'm eagerly awaiting the PBS premiere tonight in about forty minutes. Oh, my goodness! I had never thought of this idea, but I FLOVE it. It just has me sipping my tea, and I do NOT mean Earl Grey! This is BRILLIANT, and I pray that Julian Fellowes thought of it, too! 

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Well, I am an American who has watched Season 6 (including the Christmas episode). Now I have to pretend that I haven't. Sigh. I sort of pulled it of last year with Broadchurch's 2nd season. At least this season of DA isn't thrilling, so I won't have to feign surprise!

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Posting after tonight's American premiere will begin here.  (Just marking this so I can link to it.)

 

Just a reminder - please keep the posts in here limited to this episode only, for the benefit of our unspoiled viewers.  :)

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Mrs. Patmore, now that's a true friend.

Not here for Bunting 2.0 the Blackmailer, glad that was resolved quickly.

Like Craig Ferguson once said, DA is DOOL in costume.

But I'll miss the show, when it ends.

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Just saw episode 1 of season 6.   Aw.  That was nice.  Not particularly memorable -- certainly not to the level of Mr. Pamuke croaking in Lady Mary's bed -- but I am VERY grateful that the awful Mr. Green story arc is truly, finally over.  Of course yet another sad story-line has been introduced for the Bates because, like Edith, they can never be allowed to be happy.  And of course Lady Mary escapes the consequences of her actions again.  But I don't hold it against her -- she's already had her reputation dragged through the mud and been blackmailed (almost into an unhappy marriage) so I will cheerfully accept her father riding to her rescue.

 

Mr. Carson / Mrs. Hughes / Mrs. Patmore -- that is a combination that is made of win. 

 

Daisy, you're an idiot.  You got off easy.

 

Denker, you're a bitch.  You so had that coming.  Go Dowager Countess!

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Yay its back with Vi in her elements, "Hughson", the end of stupid Mr. Greene and the general happiness I feel.  I missed Tom and hope he'll be back in some way before it ends. 

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Solid opening episode. The awkward conversations about sex were amusing; a new dispute between Violet and Isobel was established for the season, and it's one that pulls in several other characters; Edith is on track to having a life in London; Mary is the new agent; and Fellowes FINALLY got the message that the Bates crime and punishment drama has been dead weight for years, so he ended it and everyone cheered.

It's a very strange show though, when the noble, progressive characters -- like Daisy and Isobel -- are the antagonists. Like, it's worse to be rude in public than to evict an old tenant farmer!

And no one should ever say "You can have me warts and all" when they're talking about sex. Dreadful line that surely made viewers across the nation wonder if Mrs. Hughes has genital warts!

Rose was missed, because her youth and vibrancy livened up the place. I hate to say it but Tom wasn't missed, because he's had so little to do for so long on the show.

Based on the this episode, Anna and Bates becoming parents is a good bet, and I'm optimistic about Thomas finding luurve. No man for Edith or Mary showed up though. So if they are going to be paired off with new characters to end the series, the show really needs to get its skates on.

No but the Cromwell quote was a nice touch. As well as using the word inveigle.

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Bates and Anna are off the hook!  Yay!!!!  Aw, but Anna can't have babbies.  Sad.

 

Better not tell Lord Grantham about Derek Bentley and Timothy Evans after that whole "toast to good old British Justice" thing.

 

Mrs. Hughes is afraid that Carson won't love her because she's not a looker anymore.  But Big Booby loves her however she looks.  So sweet.

 

Daisy yells at people that are taking over the land her father-in-law has worked on all his life.  Impulsive, but I thought it was good she showed her convictions.  Almost got her kicked out of Downton, though.

 

Dowager Countess continues to be awesome.  Denker is complete tool, as usual.  And Spratt has not turned into a clock yet, which is surprising.

 

What else happened?  Oh, yeah.  Blackmail.  I'd like to think Bitchy Maid moves to America, marries someone surnamed Boddy and teaches him the finer arts in blackmail against six colorfully named people.  She later murders her husband, frames one of the six for it, and moves to Tahiti.

 

Lord Grantham was awesome about how he handled it, politely telling her where to shove what she knows up her plum pudding hole and giving her money to keep from telling anyone that she was going to blackmail a lord's daughter.  Crafty, Robert.  At least, I think that's what happened.

 

No Lady Rose, though. And no Lady Rose's cute husband :(

Edited by bmoore4026
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Well, I rather liked that. Nice mix of upstairs and downstairs stories.

As a person nearing a certain age, I found Carson and Hughes's story to be very poignant. Carson nearly made me tear up when he was talking to Mrs. Patmore. And Leslie Nicol's comedic timing is fabulous.

I understand Daisy's upset, but that's just the deal when you're a tenant. My parents were tenant farmers when I was a child, and like Mason our farm was sold and we had to move. I'm not saying it was fun, but it wasn't the end of the world. Frankly, unless you're the owner, the final say isn't yours. That's true whether talking about a farm, house, or job. It doesn't make the owners evil. Mason's old landlord basically went bankrupt. Obviously something had to give.

I always love Robert and Cora's quiet moments together. Great scene in the kitchen.

Edith was exhibiting some welcome sparkle. Move to London, Edith.

The blackmail plot was relatively ridiculous, but I did love Mary's headpiece at dinner. Anna can do my hair anytime.

How old ate the Bateses supposed to be? I'd have thought they would have basically already been considered to be past the age of likely to have children, at least in those times. Glad that ridiculous Green story is over, and irritated with Anna that she can't let herself be happy for one damned day. Ugh.

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Am I the only one who wished that Mary and Anna would have gone to the obvious place and decide it was time to murder the smugass blackmailer?

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I don't know. Why would Our Lord Creator introduce the evil Miss Bevan and then conclude the arc so quickly and neatly? Will we see her again, in some troublemaking form? Was it to signal that Mary's past is indeed past and done?

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Well, I rather liked that. Nice mix of upstairs and downstairs stories.

As a person nearing a certain age, I found Carson and Hughes's story to be very poignant. Carson nearly made me tear up when he was talking to Mrs. Patmore. And Leslie Nicol's comedic timing is fabulous.

I understand Daisy's upset, but that's just the deal when you're a tenant. My parents were tenant farmers when I was a child, and like Mason our farm was sold and we had to move. I'm not saying it was fun, but it wasn't the end of the world. Frankly, unless you're the owner, the final say isn't yours. That's true whether talking about a farm, house, or job. It doesn't make the owners evil. Mason's old landlord basically went bankrupt. Obviously something had to give.

I always love Robert and Cora's quiet moments together. Great scene in the kitchen.

Edith was exhibiting some welcome sparkle. Move to London, Edith.

The blackmail plot was relatively ridiculous, but I did love Mary's headpiece at dinner. Anna can do my hair anytime.

How old ate the Bateses supposed to be? Is have thought they would have basically already been considered to be past the age of likely to have children, at least in those times. Glad that ridiculous Green story is over, and irritated with Anna that she can't let herself be happy for one damned day. Ugh.

 

The actors who play Bates and Anna are 67 and 36 respectively, but I think they're both playing a bit younger?

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...or, at least, it makes her think, for a while, that she might have to. But that sounds more like an Edith thing, right?

From the recap:

Anna, quit fishing and enjoy what you caught, damn!

This. It annoys be so much when Person A says, "I feel this," and Person B says, "No, you feel that." Stop looking for trouble and take the man at his word. Gah!

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Well, I just wrote a long post, and I lost it. Most of my thoughts have already been expressed by others, so just a couple of things.

 

I liked Mary this episode. I liked that she is human enough to dread scandal, but strong enough to be willing to face it out. I think that's what Robert was rewarding. He said she was "tough," and it would be tough to be the subject of that kind of publicity. Times may be changing, but it's still 1925, and there's still a big double standard when it comes to women's reputations. With that said, the show needs to stop making the working-class characters (who aren't staff) shrill, unpleasant, or conniving.

 

I did not like Edith this episode (though as someone said, she looked wonderful). She has her daughter, a beautifully furnished flat in London, is in charge of a business, has a fabulous wardrobe, a family that stood behind her when it counted, and an estate to retire to whenever she wants. Why is she still sighing and acting like "poor me"? I'd be impatient with her, too.

 

The Green subplot was resolved, now please please please get rid of Denker. This is the second time the Dowager caught her in shenanigans, and we know of even more. When is Violet going to wise up and sack her? 

 

Daisy's heart was in the right place, but her head wasn't. I foresee Mr. Mason becoming a tenant at Downton.

 

Very heavy-handed with the estate auction scene. Lots of foreshadowing about the eventual fate of landowners. I hardly think this show will see the Granthams selling up, but a farewell to the estate on more honorable terms seems to be on the cards. (And no, I haven't seen any spoilers.)

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Brendan Coyle is 52 and Joanne Froggatt is 35. 

 

Whoops, I must have clicked on the wrong cast member (and did not read the name) when I was on IMDB.  Joanne is 36 as 1979 is listed as her birth year - the same year as me!

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I was positive the blackmail plot was going to be a season-long thing. I like that Mary would rather be scandalized than pay up (she's right, it would never stop once it started) and I loved Anna marching Miss WhatsHerFace out of the house.

 

Sue me but Anna is still my favorite character despite the terrible storylines she and Bates have had since, I don't even know. Ever? Though yes, I did kind of laugh that our first look at her this season was her crying...I did think to myself, "Oh, we're just gonna start right off with it and not even bother with a build-up? Good to know." And PRAISE ALL OF THE DEITIES THAT THE GREEN PLOT IS FINALLY OVER. I would have wished for a more clever resolution after it dragged on for so long but beggars can't be choosers. I hope the Bates baby drama doesn't drag on for too long but knowing there's only 8 episodes left means it can't drag on for longer than that. Idk how old either of them are supposed to be...I always gathered that Anna was around Mary's age and Mary would be about in her early 30s by now so I guess Anna is about the same, maybe a few years older? It would be difficult for her to conceive at this point, especially in 1925. And way upthread people were talking miscarriages...I don't think she's necessarily had miscarriages, just that it's been a few times now that her period was late and she thought she was pregnant only to turn out to be wrong. If she'd had a miscarriage, let alone several, she'd be out of commission for a bit.

 

I did enjoy the little party that the upstairs and downstairs folks had together to celebrate the end of the Green saga (it did feel kind of meta, but shame on Fellowes for dragging it out so long in the first place) and I commented to my mom on the out-of-place-ness of Robert and Cora hanging out in the kitchen and having a snack. It was kind of a startling moment but maybe they would be ok if they had to give up Downton and downsize.

 

Violet messing with Denker was wonderful. She's unbearable.

 

I wasn't expecting Lord Merton to stick around after Isobel changed her mind on their engagement, but I do like the actor and am glad the characters are able to maintain a friendly/professional relationship.

 

What happened to Dr. Clarkson's mustache?! I guess they're going out of style? It was so strange to see him without it.

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So, both Mrs. Padmore and Mrs. Hughes are virgins? What about Mr. Carson?

Yes, I was wondering the same- remind me of their romantic pasts? Have any of them been married/had serious relationships? I thought there was a storyline way back about carson being in an ill-fated relationship, and maybe Mrs Hughes being engaged? Are they just called "Mrs" out of respect?

Bates and Anna will definitely have a baby by series end. That was heavy handed.

The makeup seemed very heavy on certain actors- Anna especially, and her hairline looked fake, like a wig. I noticed it on denker as well.

Hooray, the mr green story is finally over! A bit too tidy of an ending, but I was so ready to move on!

Also, loved the talks between Hughes/padmore/Carson about his expectations! That was so awkward and sweet. I truly did not know how he felt, so was hooked in, wondering what he was hoping for in the marriage! When did they get engaged? The Christmas special that I missed?

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I found the moment where Robert wandered over to the refrigerator and helped himself to leftovers to be quite significant. 

 

I thought the same.  A foreshadowing of things to come.  And it was one of my favorite moments when Carson startled Robert and Cora.  They looked like two kids with their hands in the cookie jar.  

 

All in all, I loved the episode.  I so wish this wasn't the last season.

Edited by Gemma Violet
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I couldn't watch any of the Carson/Hughes scenes, I find them uncomfortable and zapped away. They were such a great couple until Fellows made that fanfiction romantic pairing out of them.

 

Dreadfully silly stuff.  (Watching Gosford Park the other day, I could help but muse upon the constant anachronism of this show in comparison to its predecessor).  

 

My BIG indicators that things are changing in society: Daisy not only goes along to the estate sale, but she gets out of the car at the FRONT of the house right after the family.  Then she has the nerve to take the new owner on and the family remonstrates with her publicly and somewhat kindly instead of having her manhandled out of there and fired on the spot. Add the Lord in the fridge, the commoner in the library, the footman playing with the kids (what governess would allow that?), the Dowager playing cat and mouse games with a lying servant who can't keep confidences, the dance and drink party with the servants, discussing Mr Carson and Mrs Hughes' living arrangements rather than retiring them... It was all a bit like being banged over the head with a solid iron theme.

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The makeup seemed very heavy on certain actors- Anna especially, and her hairline looked fake, like a wig. I noticed it on denker as well.

 

 

This was very distracting for me.  I didn't hear most of what Anna said because I was so honed in on her hairline, trying to figure out why they slapped that awful wig on her.

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I thought the show made it clear that Pamuk was lying when he said Mary would still be a virgin for her husband. I think he just...deflowered her and lied that nobody would be able to know. I can't see Fellowes writing the other version.

 

Then again, this is the show that thinks we somehow would be unhappy if we didn't know, in no uncertain terms, that Carson and Hughes were planning on doing the nasty. Did Fellowes really think viewers were clamoring for reassurance that this would not just be a companionable marriage? Because really, Lord Fellowes, no need to go out of your way on my account.

 

I thought Pamuk meant it would all be oral sex, implying that she would still be a virgin and not have to worry about STD either.

 

True we didn't need to be witnesses to the Patmore/Carson/Hughes worry and angst about the physical side of their upcoming marriage. Fellowes is introducing too much 2015/2016 Zeitgeist with that whole story. Just a way to work in "sex is for older people too" political correctness lecturing that was not necessary for his audience. A waste of good storytelling time, but giving many more lines to the Carson, Patmore, and Hughes actors.

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Thought the conversation between Carson and Mrs Pat more was priceless....I can only imagine how awkward such a conversation would be in 1925 particularly given this also was between a supervisor and subordinate.

I want Anna and Bates and Edith to finally be happy...I'd like to see Edith finally stick it to Mary.

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