The Bachelor in the Media

[JudyObscure]

2 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

God no.  Not Steve Harvey. 

LOL I don't really like him much either,  but somehow picturing him rolling his eyes at the cornball shenanigans on The Bachelor appeals to me.  This show has always taken itself far too seriously.

[Dejana]

12 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

LOL I don't really like him much either,  but somehow picturing him rolling his eyes at the cornball shenanigans on The Bachelor appeals to me.  This show has always taken itself far too seriously.

His relationship advice book had a rule about holding off on sex for 90 days. I don't think a whole Bachelor Season takes that long to film. His commentary on Fantasy Suite Week would be interesting, to say the least...

Edited February 15, 2021 by Dejana

[waving feather]

4 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Accountability, I'm all for. But this thinking that "social media activism" and constant condemnation posting are necessary to prove something is (1) deeply flawed and (2) contributes to none of the real, concrete change that people are looking for. 

I saw the contestants of this season of the Bachelor and last season of Bachelorette put out group statements to condemn racism. It's a nice support for Rachel Lindsay but means nothing much to me at the end of the day. Do I think that all those people who posted it truly do not have a racist bone in their body? No. Do I think those who did not post (like Noah Erb from Tayshia's season) are racist? Also no. Noah seems like one of the most open-minded contestants on the show, based on how he spoke about others on and off the show. Compared to other showboats from BN at least. People should really stop expecting timely social justice posts from contestants who do not make their living on SM.

[TomGirl]

So, I have a question:  I do NOT want to be spoiled, but can someone tell if this season HAS been spoiled (by RS or otherwise)?

[TiredMe]

15 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

So, I have a question:  I do NOT want to be spoiled, but can someone tell if this season HAS been spoiled (by RS or otherwise)?

yes it has

[JenE4]

Where is this Harrison-Rachel interview posted?

[TomGirl]

 

[TomGirl]

More.

 

[eyelash]

6 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

Ugh if we get Ben Higgins as his replacement I will not be happy. 

It's got to be Rachel Lindsay don't you think?  

[TheFinalRose]

31 minutes ago, eyelash said:

It's got to be Rachel Lindsay don't you think?  

One would hope. Hiring White Privilege Specimen #1 Ben Higgins would not please the mob. It's all via Zoom anyway, one would think. So perhaps not a huge give on Chris Harrison's part. 

[Mabinogia]

On 2/14/2021 at 11:41 AM, Dejana said:

Meanwhile, a big segment of the viewers couldn't care less about any of these issues and resent people who try to "politicize" the show.

This is the heart of it all. Enough of the fan base is going to continue to watch this show no matter what CH says, no matter how many POC do or don't show up/win/star, and so long as enough people are watching, the show will go on and it will make it's shallow apologies for the racism, the sexism, the dangerous situations they have put people in, then they will pull out a new "most shocking season ever" and carry on as they always have. 

[JenE4]

2 hours ago, TomGirl said:

More.

 

 

3 hours ago, TomGirl said:

 

Thank you for posting, @TomGirl! Harrison definitely invoked the term “woke police” enough that any backtracking he’s now doing is insincere pandering. He wasn’t wrong to say that Rachel K should speak for herself, the problem was that he Just. Kept. Talking. and dug himself deeper and deeper that came off in the very “anti-PC” camp, which automatically aligns you with the side of “it’s my freedom of speech to be racist.” I don’t know that Harrison is racist, but he most definitely is “anti-woke”—which puts you squarely on the side of racists. That might be the one slight point I’d give him on the “big difference” between 2018 and now. Yes, of course everyone knew three goddamned years ago that a plantation party was racist! (Insane to try to say otherwise!) But in 2018 a lot of people thought it was “enough” to just not to be racist; now we know we must also be actively anti-racist. Though, for as much as Harrison seems to think he knows what racial behavior is “expected” in 2021, he sure as hell didn’t exhibit it...so maybe he personally is “only up to 2018 standards.” 

[Kiss my mutt]

Is anyone here giving up on Bachelor Nation and never watching again? 

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, TomGirl said:

So, I have a question:  I do NOT want to be spoiled, but can someone tell if this season HAS been spoiled (by RS or otherwise)?

In theory but the spoiler could be wrong,  COVID has kind of messed with outside confirmation (slip ups...etc.)

4 hours ago, eyelash said:

It's got to be Rachel Lindsay don't you think?  

I don't know.  It'd be a tough position to put her in, I'd think.  The show probably knows they have to address it but I think they're going to want to find an interviewer who can ask serious questions about it but will not go too hard.  I think Rachel can do that but will she want to hold herself back?  And if she doesn't go all out, will she also take flack for not being harder on Rachael?  She said she already faced some criticism for not being harder on Chris. 

And if you're The Bachelor franchise, do you give such a high profile position of hosting After The Final Rose to a woman who has basically said she's done with you once her contract is up?  Now, do I think Rachel would consider a higher profile role with the franchise?  I think she'd be tempted, at the very least. The franchise might know it has a problem but it's still going to protect the franchise.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Irlandesa

[Mu Shu]

12 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Is anyone here giving up on Bachelor Nation and never watching again? 

Yep. This was never a show about anything of substance. It’s completely ruined and it used to be glorious, ridiculous TV.  I’d rather live on an island that gets hit with hurricanes and the power is out most of the time than listen to anymore of this shit. 

[Jax7917]

This cancel culture that is going on is very scary . Anything anyone says can automatically be taken out of context and your life is ruined. Heaven forbid Chris Harrison said that Rachael should be given some grace until she shares her side and her story . Judging this girl because of a picture she took at a party in college is just plain crazy . I’m even scared to write this post because I know it’s not the popular thing to say .. but it’s how I feel . Rachel Lindsay seems to dislike everybody and has an issue with everything .. but she sure doesn’t mind the paychecks she gets and the luxurious life the show has given her . I’m just sick of her and her two cents and I can’t wait until someone digs up something from her past and she gets canceled . 

[Mu Shu]

When fucking France says you have a problem, Houston you have a problem. Thank god I’m moving into the actual swamp. Those conasses couldn’t survive a day there so we will be left alone with our good times. 

[Thumper]

12 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

When fucking France says you have a problem, Houston you have a problem. Thank god I’m moving into the actual swamp. Those conasses couldn’t survive a day there so we will be left alone with our good times. 

I do not know what this means!  lol 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Jax7917 said:

Anything anyone says can automatically be taken out of context and your life is ruined.

That isn't what happened here.  Frankly, the longer video is worse than the edited video.

1 hour ago, Jax7917 said:

Heaven forbid Chris Harrison said that Rachael should be given some grace until she shares her side and her story

That isn't why he's being criticized. I'm sure he'll try to frame it that way, that he's a victim of the "woke" people (goodness does he misuse that word a lot in the interview).  That would be a misrepresentation of what he's being called out for, in my opinion..  Rachel actually agreed with a lot of what he said on that front.  She wanted to hear from Rachael.

He's being criticized for the way he behaved in the interview from the casual racism of acting like a plantation party in 2018 was something people didn't know was racist (they did) and talking over Rachel when she tried to explain her perspective a bit more. 

1 hour ago, Jax7917 said:

Judging this girl because of a picture she took at a party in college is just plain crazy .

Not just any old party.  A racist party.

1 hour ago, Jax7917 said:

Rachel Lindsay seems to dislike everybody and has an issue with everything

I don't know if you've watched the fifteen minute interview but Rachel didn't take down Chris Harrison.  Chris Harrison took down Chris Harrison.  She was respectful of him. He took it upon himself to go in the bizarre direction he took the interview.  And once the interview made it to the air, it was people watching it that started pointing out what was wrong with it--not Rachel.

 

[Jax7917]

14 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

That isn't what happened here.  Frankly, the longer video is worse than the edited video.

That isn't why he's being criticized. I'm sure he'll try to frame it that way, that he's a victim of the "woke" people (goodness does he misuse that word a lot in the interview).  That would be a misrepresentation of what he's being called out for, in my opinion..  Rachel actually agreed with a lot of what he said on that front.  She wanted to hear from Rachael.

He's being criticized for the way he behaved in the interview from the casual racism of acting like a plantation party in 2018 was something people didn't know was racist (they did) and talking over Rachel when she tried to explain her perspective a bit more. 

Not just any old party.  A racist party.

I don't know if you've watched the fifteen minute interview but Rachel didn't take down Chris Harrison.  Chris Harrison took down Chris Harrison.  She was respectful of him. He took it upon himself to go in the bizarre direction he took the interview.  And once the interview made it to the air, it was people watching it that started pointing out what was wrong with it--not Rachel.

 

I heard the entire interview . I think it was stupid of him to say anything at all regarding the situation because in today’s world , you’ll never say the “ right ” thing and you’ll  always be expected to apologize for having an opinion that isn’t considered the perfect, politically correct thing a person should say . However , I just don’t think what he said was wrong and I don’t think he owed anyone an apology . I get why he apologized , but I don’t think it was owed to anyone . And Stepping down from the show he’s been a huge part of for 20? Years because people jump to conclusions and hop on a bandwagon is just ridiculous in my opinion.
I do respect your opinion , I just have a different one in regard to this whole thing . 

[Irlandesa]

7 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

And Stepping down from the show he’s been a huge part of for 20?

We do disagree so I won't go round and round but I think his stepping away is to protect him as much as anyone. 

He decided to take a more personal stance on a contestant than I can ever recall seeing from him (not that I've followed super closely). And while I actually do agree with you that he had some good points, they just happened to go side-by-side with some really atrocious ones and way of saying things. 

I think everyone realized that he wouldn't be the best person to lead the discussion and he ran the risk of making ATFR about him and what he does/says than those who aren't a part of "Women Tell All."

I actually wouldn't be surprised if they didn't cancel WTA at this point.  The Bachelorette season didn't have one and they could just cite COVID again for this.

[EllenB]

5 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Is anyone here giving up on Bachelor Nation and never watching again? 

I haven't decided. Part of my problem is that a close friend and I would text back and forth about The Bachelor/ette/in Paradise and it was one of the fun and goofy things we bonded over - a break from the original reason, a shared medical thing. She died last month, and I can't give it up yet since I feel like I'm watching for both of us.  I'm also curious how (or IF) the show, and CH, will pull themselves out of the muck they have so willingly wallowed in. I guess I'm hate-watching (more than usual!). Or I've become mentally and morally lazy after the last year.

[RealHousewife]

25 minutes ago, EllenB said:

I haven't decided. Part of my problem is that a close friend and I would text back and forth about The Bachelor/ette/in Paradise and it was one of the fun and goofy things we bonded over - a break from the original reason, a shared medical thing. She died last month, and I can't give it up yet since I feel like I'm watching for both of us.  I'm also curious how (or IF) the show, and CH, will pull themselves out of the muck they have so willingly wallowed in. I guess I'm hate-watching (more than usual!). Or I've become mentally and morally lazy after the last year.

Aw I'm so sorry ELLENB. *hug* 

[ByTor]

Just a reminder to keep discussion of the Bachelor cast's social media to how it relates to the show It is fine to discuss whether Chris Harrison, or anybody on the show, or the franchise itself, is racist. It is not fine to discuss who else may be racist, particularly other posters. Some posts have been removed. If anybody has any questions, please feel free to DM @CheshireCat or me.

[TheFinalRose]

12 hours ago, Jax7917 said:

This cancel culture that is going on is very scary . Anything anyone says can automatically be taken out of context and your life is ruined. Heaven forbid Chris Harrison said that Rachael should be given some grace until she shares her side and her story .

I feel the same about cancel culture demanding people's heads on a plate. Is Matt asking for this rabid defense that is bringing down Rachel?  I'm sure that ABC has him muzzled but at some point the mob needs to put down their torches. I'm worried about Rachel, who is being filleted online. She issued an apology and I hope she is getting strong support. She deserves it. I thought Hannah Brown's slip up over the summer was way worse but she seems to be back in the fold and all is forgiven. Hypocrites. 

[phlebas]

This is Abigail when she was roughly 18 and playing golf for her college.

Nice job, Matt.  Doofus.

 

[Starlight925]

Did anyone else see Matt on "Watch What Happens Live" with Andy Cohen last week on Bravo?

He had the bushiest beard and a knit cap.  If he hadn't been introduced, I'd never have known who it was.

On the show, they've been virtually bringing in guests, so he was in his apartment.  He had some sort of an alcoholic drink, that he kept taking sips of, and ending up gulping.  He appeared drunk.

Andy Cohen asks goofy questions sometimes, in hopes to trip up his guests.  He asked Matt to either tell the truth, or take a sip of his drink, in response to the question "Did you like (Queen) Victoria?"  Matt took the hugest gulp you've ever seen.

He kept throwing his head back and laughing hysterically, the entire show.  At first it was cute & charming, but it eventually became really annoying.

[Starlight925]

Re:  Chris Harrison.

My opinion is, it always depends on the level of understanding & remorse the person shows, once they realize they've made an insensitive comment.

On Real Housewives of Dallas, LeeAnne was fired for calling Kary a "crazy Mexican" and showing zero remorse.  Z---er---o.  She was awful.

But Brandi, on the same show, was kept on after her old IG video showed up of her making fun of "Asian eyes".  She went to therapy, and cried so much that you could just tell it was coming from her heart.  That she meant no harm, that she realized how stupid it was, and what a bad example she set for her daughters.  It was that guttural kind of crying where you just know it wasn't faked.

In contrast with LeeAnne, who couldn't milk a tear if you gave her a million dollars.  Who kept up her defense of self the whole time.

So it all depends on what Chris Harrison does, or says, from this point.

Was he wrong?  Abso-freaking-lutely.  Has he shown remorse & understanding?  That remains to be seen.

[Just Carol]

One of Harrison's problems is that he gets too close emotionally with the bachelorettes.  He wants to defend them at all costs, no matter what they've done.  Recall his ridiculous "pride" for Hannah Brown... He needs to take a step back from the show, but also from getting too close with the contestants.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Just Carol

[leighdear]

15 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Is anyone here giving up on Bachelor Nation and never watching again? 

Yeah, I'm done.  The days of pretty people going to pretty places and having pretty dates is over.  Prince Chris is now a complete toad, everybody is cast to play a certain predetermined role, your average felon gets top billing as an "eligible single" and the travel porn is gone. 

It was a time that will never be recaptured.  I'm just letting it go.    

And I am so heartily sick of the terms "woke", "cancel culture" and "grace" (poor girls with that name!).  They are stupid, made-up terms that people blather to avoid using recognizable words and phrases.  This franchise has pounded them into the ground and I'm finished listening. 

[Hpmec]

I've never seen Chris Harrison behave exceptionally disrespectfully toward any contestant except maybe a couple of total ass bachelors -- thinking Juan Pablo and maybe that fake Prince. He seems to give the women a great deal of leeway -- even ringers brought on for the drama. That said, trying to justify racist behavior as having taken place in 2018 is laughable. He'll be back after doing some serious soul searching from the comfort of his lovely home in his whiter than white neighborhood. (I live not far from there. Trust me, CH rarely encounters a POC where he lives.)

When all is said and done, this is just a stupid, mostly fake tv show. If Rachel is racist, what is she doing on this season in the first place? People should chill, let her explain herself, and be done with it. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Hpmec

[Jax7917]

But what about judging someone for who they are , not who they were . 
Picking apart things someone did when they were 18 or in college when they are now 24,25, 35 etc. just seems very irrational to me and like people are TRYING to find something wrong with a person . I’m not just talking about Rachael , I’m talking about a lot of cases of this that I’ve seen in today’s world . People who have no lives go searching for stuff to ruin someone’s life . 
I’m 32 now , and when I think back to who I was at 18 , I’m appalled and embarrassed . If I had to apologize for anything wrong I’ve ever said , I would owe an insane amount of apologies and that goes for everyone else . Everyone has/ had skeletons , no one was perfect when they were young and Rachael in particular is one of the very few girls I’ve seen on this season who acted like an adult . The amount of bullying we’ve seen this season of people doing things that are CURRENTLY horrific should be what is addressed , not dredging up things from someone’s past that no one knows any of the context about . Again , Rachael is just an example in using , but this is becoming way too common in general . 

[TVMovieBuff]

It just seems a shame to me that Chris Harrison has to lose his job over something someone else did. Not something HE DID, but what he said, or didn't say, about something someone else did. 

Sure, is seems pretty dumb to go to an antebellum party in 2018. That's on Rachael. I am not a racist. I am less a racist than anyone I know. It is really scary to think I can be accused of something racist when I know I am not. 

[RealHousewife]

How many think Chris didn’t handle the interview with Rachel well but shouldn’t be canceled? 

Can’t we strongly condemn racism but be forgiving people at the same time? I just think this is a slippery slope. You can have a big heart and love everyone and still put your foot in your mouth. 

[chocolatine]

I don't think CH has been permanently "canceled." He'll sit out this season's ATFR (if it even takes place; last season it didn't), then next season he'll be back with another public statement how he has taken the time to reflect and is going to "do better" (another catchphrase that social media is fond of these days) from then on.

[Starlight925]

It's not that an Antebellum party was "ok" or "not ok" in 2018.  

It's that now, in 2021, we have a much greater understanding of why this is not ok now, not ever.

Statues came down in 2021 that were up for decades.

Heck, Bravo used to show Thomas Ravenel on Southern Charm on his literal "plantation", where the generations of their family had....yes....slaves.  It was all shown in entertainment, pretty people dressing up, drinking pretty drinks.  No, of course that is not ok, and now, in 2021, we all realize it.

It's great to be educated and (I hate the term) "woke" about all of this.  Now, in 2021.  That things we thought were harmless even a year ago, carry a lot of negativity.  It's great to learn.

I think that's what Chris Harrison was trying to say:  Not that it was ok in 2018, but that in 2021, we have such a greater understanding of why it's not only not ok, but should be condemned.

I don't think he said it very eloquently, and I think it caught him off guard, as he was talking about a third person.

He himself didn't attend this party.  Someone he knew, who was recruited by producers of the show (maybe he aided), did.  

She should be the one to speak out and explain.  Where is she?  Has she spoken publicly about this?

Edited February 16, 2021 by Starlight925

[YorkieMom15]

I am very impressed with the discussion in this forum. I read a few others and have never seen such respectful discussion on a sensitive topic. Thank you all for restoring my faith in humanity! What to say about this? I have watched every season of this franchise. In twenty years, Chris Harrison has had plenty of opportunity to display characteristics of racism himself. To my knowledge, he hasn't. I am certain if he had, we would all know by now. Prior to this one interview, myself and my family and friends spoke about how much he truly loves this franchise, how close he becomes with so many of the people from the show, how normal he seems to be, and how he even makes fun of himself in an effort to entertain us. In a instant, everything changed. How is that ok? How is it ok that a certain interviewer, who for some reason, seems to have chosen herself as the authority of all things Bachelor, so easily discard a person whose horrible sin was requesting time for someone else to explain herself before being vilified and judged? How many of us would feel comfortable if every single note we wrote in high school or every single photo we took with a disc camera back in the 80's became public? And then, before we had the chance to say anything, a friend of ours was literally destroyed on national television for trying to give us space to think? And finally, how many of the hundreds even thousands of people in the Bachelor franchise call Chris Harrison a friend? How many knew him long before the interviewer did and how many would love to step up and support him as the friend they know? I wonder. I wonder how many are afraid to, because they know that they would be destroyed as well. What happened to grace? What happened to empathy? What happened to respect? The interviewer had no problem with Chris Harrison when he was a cheerleader for her. Perhaps she could use some time to reflect as well.

[adore]

One issue I have with this interview, among many, is Chris Harrison referring to Rachael as a "girl" often. If you think of contestants as defenseless girls, maybe it's time to start casting women for the show? That said, I would much rather hear her talk about this than Chris. Others speculating about her character isn't especially interesting.

Additonally, the interval between the 1970s, when Chris came of age, and 2021 is greater than the interval between 2018 and 2021.   The internet is a great educational tool, not just a place to post pictures on instagram. Being young, dumb, and in college can't be used as an excuse so readily. Maybe studying the history of the south is a better use of anyone's time than reenacting Gone with the Wind. (Are history courses electives in college these days? By the time I was a junior/senior in college I had a general understanding of the events leading up to the American Civil War and would have  declined an invitation to these types of parties.) 

[Mu Shu]

20 hours ago, Thumper said:

I do not know what this means!  lol 

France commented that the fake woke culture here is a threat. France isn’t known for being all that conservative. 
 

As for conasse, it’s a word I shouldn’t translate. 
 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Mu Shu

[UMAngela]

1 hour ago, YorkieMom15 said:

I am very impressed with the discussion in this forum. I read a few others and have never seen such respectful discussion on a sensitive topic. Thank you all for restoring my faith in humanity! What to say about this? I have watched every season of this franchise. In twenty years, Chris Harrison has had plenty of opportunity to display characteristics of racism himself. To my knowledge, he hasn't. I am certain if he had, we would all know by now. Prior to this one interview, myself and my family and friends spoke about how much he truly loves this franchise, how close he becomes with so many of the people from the show, how normal he seems to be, and how he even makes fun of himself in an effort to entertain us. In a instant, everything changed. How is that ok? How is it ok that a certain interviewer, who for some reason, seems to have chosen herself as the authority of all things Bachelor, so easily discard a person whose horrible sin was requesting time for someone else to explain herself before being vilified and judged? How many of us would feel comfortable if every single note we wrote in high school or every single photo we took with a disc camera back in the 80's became public? And then, before we had the chance to say anything, a friend of ours was literally destroyed on national television for trying to give us space to think? And finally, how many of the hundreds even thousands of people in the Bachelor franchise call Chris Harrison a friend? How many knew him long before the interviewer did and how many would love to step up and support him as the friend they know? I wonder. I wonder how many are afraid to, because they know that they would be destroyed as well. What happened to grace? What happened to empathy? What happened to respect? The interviewer had no problem with Chris Harrison when he was a cheerleader for her. Perhaps she could use some time to reflect as well.

The interviewer, Rachel Lindsay, is not the authority of all things Bachelor, but certainly an important voice when it comes to the BIPOC contestant experience on The Bachelor. 
 

And I’m with you, I often cringe when I think back on dumb stuff I said or posted in my youth; if I’m ever called on it, I’ll admit my ignorance, apologize, and continue trying to be better. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by UMAngela

[Alexander Pope]

On 2/15/2021 at 9:35 AM, Dejana said:

His relationship advice book had a rule about holding off on sex for 90 days. I don't think a whole Bachelor Season takes that long to film. His commentary on Fantasy Suite Week would be interesting, to say the least...

I like this idea! and he wouldn't have to announce the winner.

[Irlandesa]

8 hours ago, Just Carol said:

One of Harrison's problems is that he gets too close emotionally with the bachelorettes.  He wants to defend them at all costs, no matter what they've done.  Recall his ridiculous "pride" for Hannah Brown... He needs to take a step back from the show, but also from getting too close with the contestants.

I don't think his downfall is getting close to the contestants.  I think he can do that.  I just think it's a bit hypocritical of him to go "this poor girl isn't prepared to handle what's about to come for her" when that's kind of what the bachelor is about.  They cast women barely out of college, throw them in emotionally volatile situations and then edit them however they choose to in order to tell their story. 

But there's a way to care about her and want to hear her side of the story that doesn't dismiss concerns people might have about a woman with her past dating a black man who may not be aware of those actions. 

7 hours ago, Hpmec said:

I've never seen Chris Harrison behave exceptionally disrespectfully toward any contestant except maybe a couple of total ass bachelors.

Chris is usually highly edited.

Quote

When all is said and done, this is just a stupid, mostly fake tv show. If Rachel is racist, what is she doing on this season in the first place?

Rachael participated in racist behavior but we don't know yet how deep her beliefs run.  Her choices still have an impact but she might not think she is racist because she likes Matt James.  Even though he has been dull a as a bachelor, he's a tall, good looking and educated man who was raised by a white mother.  I can see why she'd feel comfortable with him.

6 hours ago, TVMovieBuff said:

It just seems a shame to me that Chris Harrison has to lose his job over something someone else did. Not something HE DID, but what he said, or didn't say, about something someone else did.

He isn't losing his job.  His participation in the one remaining episode of this season was put on pause and it's very much because of what he said and did.  This isn't Rachael's fault or Rachel's fault.  It's his.

5 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Can’t we strongly condemn racism but be forgiving people at the same time? I just think this is a slippery slope. You can have a big heart and love everyone and still put your foot in your mouth. 

Yes we can forgive but speaking of slippery slope, couldn't it go both ways?  Are we supposed to just hand wave casual racism when it happens without any consequences?  I think that has already happened for far too long.  It's not that I don't understand how it can happen.  I constantly try to be aware but still stumble every now and then.  Chris being a public figure is a blessing and a curse in this regard.  He has the privilege of having his voice amplified but it can work against him too. 

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

France commented that the fake woke culture here is a threat. France isn’t known for being all that conservative.
 

It depends on how you define conservative.  In terms of nudity/sex/language, no France is not conservative.  In terms of the conversations around some issues of social justice?  France is arguably way behind.  All one has to do is look at the way so many in France reacted to the #metoo movement and the notion that men who use their positions of power to abuse women should be held accountable. 

So France's opinion isn't exactly the gold standard, IMO. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Irlandesa

[Jax7917]

2 hours ago, YorkieMom15 said:

I am very impressed with the discussion in this forum. I read a few others and have never seen such respectful discussion on a sensitive topic. Thank you all for restoring my faith in humanity! What to say about this? I have watched every season of this franchise. In twenty years, Chris Harrison has had plenty of opportunity to display characteristics of racism himself. To my knowledge, he hasn't. I am certain if he had, we would all know by now. Prior to this one interview, myself and my family and friends spoke about how much he truly loves this franchise, how close he becomes with so many of the people from the show, how normal he seems to be, and how he even makes fun of himself in an effort to entertain us. In a instant, everything changed. How is that ok? How is it ok that a certain interviewer, who for some reason, seems to have chosen herself as the authority of all things Bachelor, so easily discard a person whose horrible sin was requesting time for someone else to explain herself before being vilified and judged? How many of us would feel comfortable if every single note we wrote in high school or every single photo we took with a disc camera back in the 80's became public? And then, before we had the chance to say anything, a friend of ours was literally destroyed on national television for trying to give us space to think? And finally, how many of the hundreds even thousands of people in the Bachelor franchise call Chris Harrison a friend? How many knew him long before the interviewer did and how many would love to step up and support him as the friend they know? I wonder. I wonder how many are afraid to, because they know that they would be destroyed as well. What happened to grace? What happened to empathy? What happened to respect? The interviewer had no problem with Chris Harrison when he was a cheerleader for her. Perhaps she could use some time to reflect as well.

I too am very happy that these conversations are respectful . They don’t always turn out that way .

I agree with all of your points . As you said, the problem is that all of his “friends” in bachelor nation know that if they stick up for him , they’ll be “ canceled” too . That exact reason is why this whole thing is so disgusting to me . You cannot say ANYTHING without severe backlash . And then you have Taylor Nolan , miss emotional intelligence,🙄 who started a petition to get Chris fired because well ... she has no more relevance and her time on the bachelor has long ended so she’s trying to get an extra 15 minutes . I mean really , fire the guy for saying what he said  ? It’s just so insane . No one has empathy anymore and the Taylor’s of the world think they are perfect . 
And then , Rachel and others were mad because Rachael didn’t respond to defend herself quickly enough for their liking . Maybe she didn’t want to address it over Instagram and have her statement mean nothing . Maybe , just maybe she wanted to share what she wanted to share at the after the final rose , when it can be done more sincerely . 
 

I know I’m getting worked up , I am just sick of reading about and seeing people’s livelihoods be destroyed day after day because they aren’t robots who say the perfect thing at all times . 

[Stats Queen]

1 hour ago, UMAngela said:

And I’m with you, I often cringe when I think back on dumb stuff I said or posted in my youth; if I’m ever called on it, I’ll admit my ignorance, apologize, and continue trying to be better. 

Me too, but sometimes that really doesn’t seem to matter these days, which I find very troubling.

I will never stop trying to be a better person and to learn from experiences (admittedly, some do not choose this path).
I will also not judge someone I don’t know personally from their social media posts or likes or something they said or did when they were 18 when they are in their 20s. Nor will I judge or categorize or ascribe labels upon someone I don’t know based upon any age, gender, ethnicity, racial, sexual identity, religion, region of the country in which they live, etc.  (unlike several family members).

It is so easy to have a whole mob casting lots of stones at people they don’t even know based upon social media content or “likes” (which is why I avoid Social media like the plaque and COVID). 

What is the point of life if you are not allowed to continually grow and learn? If I was the same person at 56 than I was at 21, that would be generally disturbing and personally shameful. If I was the same person at 56 than I was a 43, I would have a lot less metal in my body from 10 orthopedic surgeries - but I would also have 13 less years of experiences, personal development and growth to make myself a better person. That is me.

Being tolerant applies to everyone. Sometimes you have to tolerate people and opinions which you personally find intolerant. You can make a choice - do I condemn a person for life and shame them or do I try to find common ground so we can grow together? The latter much harder and longer; however, silencing others is not “win” or a victory. You may have won what you perceive as the personal high ground. But beware, in 10 years the high ground may have shifted and not in your favor.

Changing hearts can take years, but happens all the time.

For example, Robert Byrd, the late senator from West Virginia (and the longest serving senator in US history) was a grand wizard in the Ku Klux Klan, but yet served as respected leader for 51 years in Democratic Party, which espouses racial unity and tolerance. He changed his views, perspectives and understanding and in 1959 hired one of the first black congressional aides in US Senate history. 

So should this man be judged by his actions as a grand wizard of the KKK or as someone who evolved and developed and helped changed policies that move minorities forward? 

Today, he would have never have gotten the opportunity to become a better person.

 

[rebel2u]

Whatever happened to second chances? And loyalty? Chris has been the face of the bachelor franchise for well over 20 years, hasn't he?  My impression is that he has served the franchise well.  Couldn't TPTB come out with a statement that, in his interview with Rachel, Chris made statements that they didn't agree with, that they have discussed this with Chris and a statement from him will be forthcoming?  And privately tell Chris that he is getting a second chance but there won't be a third?  This cancel culture with the thought that one strike and you're out is, to me, ridiculous.  And speaking of loyalty. . . Rachel was chosen to be the first Bachelorette of color.  She wasn't their only option.  To be selected is, in my opinion, a huge gift.  As I understand it, she left her job as a lawyer in Dallas and now lives in LA and does a bachelor podcast with Becca. She also has done television work.  I doubt any of these opportunities would have been possible without her exposure as the bachelorette.  And she found her life partner on her bachelorette season.  Biting the hand that feeds you comes to mind.    

We do need diversity in the bachelor universe.  TPTB should be actively recruiting a Native American lead. Have we ever even had a Native American as a contestant? We've had leads from Canada and Venezuela and an Italian prince.  What about a Hispanic lead?  I would love to see Abigail as a lead.  (She was adorable at 18, btw.)

We also seem to be jumping on the South with both feet.  I've seen it implied that Southern = racist.  On my short street, we have 2 interracial couples and 3 additional households that identify as LGBTQ.  There are no problems, we all get along and-- so far-- no crosses have been burned.  

The US in the late 1800's attempted to annihilate the Native American population.  They were removed from the lands where they hunted and farmed and were segregated in reservations where the land was dusty and dry.  They were hit harder by covid 19 than almost anywhere else in the nation.  Many have no running water and substandard housing. My dad took a cross country trip a few years ago and said the reservations were the saddest things he had ever seen. I wonder, with Rachael being pilloried on a nationwide basis with such vitriol that the hatred expressed could follow her for a long time, do those who live in states with Indian reservations ever stop to consider the institutional racism in their own backyard? 

I'm tapping out of Bachelor Nation, thus this long rant.  I'm usually a wrong reasons viewer and, as I've said before, those of you who are extra-snarkey and swear, thank you.  You're my people.  It was a lot of fun for years but less so now.  And if it's not fun, why bother?

My parting shots:

Rachel, when you are in riot gear, everything looks like a riot.

And the South is different from the rest of the nation.  We have a legacy of slavery to contend with and essentially the only part of the nation that has had a war fought on her land.

It's easy to stereotype the South but hard to understand it if you're not from here. And I hope we don't cancel Chris and Rachael when they deserve what used to be commonplace but is less so now---a second chance.

 

[Kiss my mutt]

Hannah Brown is probably glad she’s not the focus anymore, though the backlash seemed short-lived and I never hear about it anymore.

[Stats Queen]

28 minutes ago, rebel2u said:

Whatever happened to second chances? And loyalty? Chris has been the face of the bachelor franchise for well over 20 years, hasn't he?  My impression is that he has served the franchise well.  Couldn't TPTB come out with a statement that, in his interview with Rachel, Chris made statements that they didn't agree with, that they have discussed this with Chris and a statement from him will be forthcoming?  And privately tell Chris that he is getting a second chance but there won't be a third?  This cancel culture with the thought that one strike and you're out is, to me, ridiculous.  And speaking of loyalty. . . Rachel was chosen to be the first Bachelorette of color.  She wasn't their only option.  To be selected is, in my opinion, a huge gift.  As I understand it, she left her job as a lawyer in Dallas and now lives in LA and does a bachelor podcast with Becca. She also has done television work.  I doubt any of these opportunities would have been possible without her exposure as the bachelorette.  And she found her life partner on her bachelorette season.  Biting the hand that feeds you comes to mind.    

We do need diversity in the bachelor universe.  TPTB should be actively recruiting a Native American lead. Have we ever even had a Native American as a contestant? We've had leads from Canada and Venezuela and an Italian prince.  What about a Hispanic lead?  I would love to see Abigail as a lead.  (She was adorable at 18, btw.)

We also seem to be jumping on the South with both feet.  I've seen it implied that Southern = racist.  On my short street, we have 2 interracial couples and 3 additional households that identify as LGBTQ.  There are no problems, we all get along and-- so far-- no crosses have been burned.  

The US in the late 1800's attempted to annihilate the Native American population.  They were removed from the lands where they hunted and farmed and were segregated in reservations where the land was dusty and dry.  They were hit harder by covid 19 than almost anywhere else in the nation.  Many have no running water and substandard housing. My dad took a cross country trip a few years ago and said the reservations were the saddest things he had ever seen. I wonder, with Rachael being pilloried on a nationwide basis with such vitriol that the hatred expressed could follow her for a long time, do those who live in states with Indian reservations ever stop to consider the institutional racism in their own backyard? 

I'm tapping out of Bachelor Nation, thus this long rant.  I'm usually a wrong reasons viewer and, as I've said before, those of you who are extra-snarkey and swear, thank you.  You're my people.  It was a lot of fun for years but less so now.  And if it's not fun, why bother?

My parting shots:

Rachel, when you are in riot gear, everything looks like a riot.

And the South is different from the rest of the nation.  We have a legacy of slavery to contend with and essentially the only part of the nation that has had a war fought on her land.

It's easy to stereotype the South but hard to understand it if you're not from here. And I hope we don't cancel Chris and Rachael when they deserve what used to be commonplace but is less so now---a second chance.

 

Thank you for all of this. Second chances seem to not matter any more.

Southern does not mean racist and I’m getting really sick of these stereotypes. I’ve lived in “the South” for 26 years and I am really exhausted from this constant labeling of all the South as racist. It is no longer 1965 nor let alone 1865.  
 

I’ve lived in several areas of the US and there are awful and good people everywhere 

 

 

[Bluesky]

On 2/14/2021 at 1:22 AM, RealHousewife said:

I'm not for this cancel culture, and I'm sure Chris will be back. I also get that Rachael is young, and no one is perfect. I actually really liked her and was disappointed by the disturbing stuff I heard. Chris also disappointed me in that interview. I thought he was a lot savvier and nicer. 

I

 

I agree he shouldn’t lose his whole career but I don’t like the excuse of age for Rachel.   She wasn’t 12 years old, she was in college, supposedly educated enough to make it that far.   Unless rural Georgia isn’t teaching America’s history especially in the South and the meaning of the confederate flag she has zero excuses . 

 

On 2/14/2021 at 1:22 AM, RealHousewife said:

 

[Stats Queen]

On 2/14/2021 at 3:37 AM, EllenB said:

The phrase "cancel culture" sounds suspiciously like people thinking racists shouldn't be held accountable.

That’s insulting

[RealHousewife]

5 hours ago, YorkieMom15 said:

I am very impressed with the discussion in this forum. I read a few others and have never seen such respectful discussion on a sensitive topic. Thank you all for restoring my faith in humanity! What to say about this? I have watched every season of this franchise. In twenty years, Chris Harrison has had plenty of opportunity to display characteristics of racism himself. To my knowledge, he hasn't. I am certain if he had, we would all know by now. Prior to this one interview, myself and my family and friends spoke about how much he truly loves this franchise, how close he becomes with so many of the people from the show, how normal he seems to be, and how he even makes fun of himself in an effort to entertain us. In a instant, everything changed. How is that ok? How is it ok that a certain interviewer, who for some reason, seems to have chosen herself as the authority of all things Bachelor, so easily discard a person whose horrible sin was requesting time for someone else to explain herself before being vilified and judged? How many of us would feel comfortable if every single note we wrote in high school or every single photo we took with a disc camera back in the 80's became public? And then, before we had the chance to say anything, a friend of ours was literally destroyed on national television for trying to give us space to think? And finally, how many of the hundreds even thousands of people in the Bachelor franchise call Chris Harrison a friend? How many knew him long before the interviewer did and how many would love to step up and support him as the friend they know? I wonder. I wonder how many are afraid to, because they know that they would be destroyed as well. What happened to grace? What happened to empathy? What happened to respect? The interviewer had no problem with Chris Harrison when he was a cheerleader for her. Perhaps she could use some time to reflect as well.

Agree with you so much! I was super annoyed by his interview, but once I found out so many people wanted him out of a job, I thought holy crap, this has gotten out of hand. I'm a millennial who grew up in a diverse environment (growing up in the south). So I totally get those people who've never been bigoted in any way, but how many of us word everything perfectly, are PC all the time, and all our family and friends are super woke as well? Whatever color you are and wherever you're from, I doubt that everyone you love is perfect and would know just what to say in Chris' shoes. I understand he's a public figure with a hosting job, but I wish people would remember he's a human being, just like your grandma who may be against interracial dating, just like your aunt who is against gay marriage. 

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Yes we can forgive but speaking of slippery slope, couldn't it go both ways?  Are we supposed to just hand wave casual racism when it happens without any consequences?  I think that has already happened for far too long.  It's not that I don't understand how it can happen.  I constantly try to be aware but still stumble every now and then.  Chris being a public figure is a blessing and a curse in this regard.  He has the privilege of having his voice amplified but it can work against him too. 

I feel like apologizing and doing better is enough in an instance like this. We didn't find out Chris a white supremacist, was using the n word, or is against interracial dating and hates the idea of Rachael and Matt together. For there to be a petition to get rid of a guy who was with the show from the beginning because he's not the best on racial issues is taking it too far for me. 

1 hour ago, Stats Queen said:

Thank you for all of this. Second chances seem to not matter any more.

Southern does not mean racist and I’m getting really sick of these stereotypes. I’ve lived in “the South” for 26 years and I am really exhausted from this constant labeling of all the South as racist. It is no longer 1965 nor let alone 1865.  
 

I’ve lived in several areas of the US and there are awful and good people everywhere 

I have a diverse background, but people look at me and see a white chick, perhaps a bit exotic. I do have family and friends who deal with racism, and they all tell me it's worse in the south, smaller towns in particular. I do believe there are good and bad everywhere. We all hear stereotypes of Californians being more superficial (LA in particular) and East coasters being more brash (especially New Yorkers). Southerners have their good stereotypes, like hospitality. Do you think it's offensive when people comment at all as far as their experiences with different areas of the country and different towns? I liked the post that mentioned why the show featured so much country music (wondered about the music since I started watching) but didn't think much about the rest of the post and the implication against southerners. Didn't think the poster meant harm. 

Maybe it's not PC to say, but I've heard more racism from the folks I know from small towns, everything from n word usage, being strongly against interracial dating, and even mocking the tragic death of George Floyd. I feel like there's this balancing act of "Don't be racist. Be forgiving too. Remember, all colors are racist, not just white people. But definitely take up extra for this group. But wait don't generalize people from this region. Don't see color. Always see color. Don't be PC, I want to know what you really think. Wait, that's racist!"

I've never had anyone call me racist, but I'm sure whoever you are someone somewhere would cancel you if given the opportunity. Maybe you don't say anything that offends the black community, but you say something that offends a different community. I've definitely gotten into arguments with people over racial issues, mostly this last year. I've felt like both "woke police" when I call people out for being bigoted, but I've also felt like, please chill. This person meant no harm. You may not be racist, but you are still hateful. I'm even nervous posting this here, but like Yorkiemom said, luckily most people are respectfully discussing. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by RealHousewife