S05.E16: The Adirondacks

[gonzosgirrl]

56 minutes ago, limecoke said:

No one is comfortable in a bridesmaid dress. We all survived. Tess needed to be told that, Beth. Accommodating her hissy fit was ridiculous. 

I was a bridesmaid once in a dress with flowered print that was identical to my grandma's curtains. Not the image I wanted to present either, but it wasn't my wedding. Beth made a rare wrong choice here, in my opinion. 

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

I'm sorry to Jack fans, but Jack never really treats Rebecca with respect the way Miguel does. He does big flowery shows of affection at times, is romantic to have sex or get her in the mood but he makes most decisions. HE decides what is good to watch on TV? She's with 3 babies all day and wants something to watch that takes her out of the house in her mind. He was dense and not cool. No way kids that age would ask parents to get married again. I knew they'd be filler but really?

I hope Madison finds a nice non actor type of guy but I can't see 4 of them raising the kids if Kevin goes with Sophie or someone else. Maybe but IDK. Unless something happened to her, one big happy family isn't TIU.

If a FB post was correct that they jump 5 years next season, how does that work? Do you guys think they keep showing flashbacks after the first show at 45? Makeup people on the set must love Dan. ; ) 40, 45, 50...

I mean Kate is somewhat happy with Toby now and Sophie called Kevin about a problem (and we all know someone will call the other back) Miguel's backstory will still be there. Will Kevin stay in the same house with Madison?

 

The funniest thing is that Jack sees himself as totally selfless and doing everything "for the girl".

 Jack was blown away by Rebecca when he first saw her singing. However, after that, I think he had a picture of the perfect life he wanted and would really prickle if Rebecca did anything that did not fit that picture. She was a piece of his final perfect family life puzzle and what she wanted to do did not matter if it did not fit his bigger picture.

He also modeled this perfect family after the way he wished his father treated his mother. His family was a working-class blue-collar family where a woman's primary focus was keeping her children and spouse happy (of course there were always exceptions to this rule).

I think this was one of the reasons he really did not push Kate to achieve the way he pushed her brothers. He figured a nice guy would come and marry her and then she would take care of a family, which was pretty backward for the nineties/ early 2000s.

He also was a little insecure because he thought he married above his station since Rebecca was from the country club set. He probably thought if she had too much freedom she might leave him.

[MBayGal]

56 minutes ago, Chanandler Bong said:

Good for Malik for getting in Harvard, but how the hell is he going to pay for it?? I wish he and Deja would just cut ties

I haven't read anything from the showrunners, so I'm just speculating, but my guess is that they are sending malik off to harvard because he is leaving the show.  then deja can have a new problem next season.

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

This was my assumption. "Pay for the house I want to be built," is what she was asking.

If you look at the paper that Kevin was holding that had his notes and speech on it, the logo was for Big Three Homes.  I'm guessing that Kevin bankrolls the creation of Big Three Homes as a company.  You typically have note paper like that if you have some sort of tie to a company. Big Three Homes then builds the house for Rebecca.

[Ohmo]

54 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I was a bridesmaid once in a dress with flowered print that was identical to my grandma's curtains. Not the image I wanted to present either, but it wasn't my wedding. Beth made a rare wrong choice here, in my opinion. 

I'm also surprised that Tess behaved this way at Kevin's wedding.  She's always been very close to her uncle, and it was disheartening that she wouldn't want to wear the dress simply to make Madison and therefore Kevin's day more pleasant.  He was one of the first people whom she told she was a lesbian.

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I'm also surprised that Tess behaved this way at Kevin's wedding.  She's always been very close to her uncle, and it was disheartening that she wouldn't want to wear the dress simply to make Madison and therefore Kevin's day more pleasant.  He was one of the first people whom she told she was a lesbian.

Maybe Tess doesn't like Madison.  And having an Aunt Madison means Kevin won't pay as much attention to her (even though Tess lives on the other side of the country).  Because that's what Tess is like.  She's all about "ME!!!!!!"  No wonder Annie's so quiet.

[GeorgiaRai]

21 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Maybe it really does all go back to Miguel's speech at the bachelor party and how Kevin and Madison weren't written in the stars (two single people that were barely acquainted magically and immediately falling in love and marrying after the birth of their unplanned one-night-stand babies), but written together (Madison breaks up with Kevin before the wedding but shortly after they begin to date, slowly, and get to know each other, and fall in love for real.)

Yes, please! I'm telling myself this is why the episode was titled Adirondacks: K&M will be sitting in their personalized chairs together for decades to come!

[virginia blue]

I think the showrunners are making a risky choice here with the Kate/Toby/Philip twist. Love them or hate them, the show has invested a lot of time and energy into Kate and Toby’s relationship. We saw them meet, fall in love, weather health crises, have children. It’s going to be emotionally draining to watch that unravel. And I can’t imagine how they’ll get to the point that the audience is actually rooting for Kate and Philip, especially given that he’s been presented thus far as a rather unpleasant arrogant jerk.

Am I the only one who is afraid that Miguel is dead or otherwise out of the picture in 2025 and the wife Nicky is referring to is...Rebecca? I swear I will throw something at the screen if the showrunners go that route.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I have mentioned before how much of a Cleveland Browns fan my late father was.  He was also a fan of baseball,  but he would never, I repeat never, tape over Dallas or Days of Our Lives for a regular season game.  He knew better.  And this is a man who almost made my mother and little sister stay an extra night in the hospital so he could watch the Browns in the playoffs.   He also would never denigrate my mom's choice of TV show.  

I'm quoting myself because I have an addendum.   I asked my mom if my dad would ever have taped over her Dallas for a baseball game. and the short answer is no.  She went on to add that my dad would tape St. Elsewhere for her when she was bowling.  Take that Jack Pearson.  

I'm sure my dad absolutely hated Dallas and St. Elsewhere and whatever other drama my mom watched on the regular in the 80s, but he loved my mom and kept his mouth shut for the 3 hours a week they were on.  Jack Pearson could learn a few things from John Pirate.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, virginia blue said:

I think the showrunners are making a risky choice here with the Kate/Toby/Philip twist. Love them or hate them, the show has invested a lot of time and energy into Kate and Toby’s relationship. We saw them meet, fall in love, weather health crises, have children. It’s going to be emotionally draining to watch that unravel. And I can’t imagine how they’ll get to the point that the audience is actually rooting for Kate and Philip, especially given that he’s been presented thus far as a rather unpleasant arrogant jerk.

Am I the only one who is afraid that Miguel is dead or otherwise out of the picture in 2025 and the wife Nicky is referring to is...Rebecca? I swear I will throw something at the screen if the showrunners go that route.

We have seen the Kate Toby marriage unraveling for the last two seasons.  Neither one can communicate.  It's only a matter of time before it implodes.  Just two episodes ago we had Kate tell Rebecca she cannot talk about work with Toby because it upsets him.  In the same episode  we have Toby's dad tell him to open up to Kate about how he is feeling, but he chooses not to.   Last week we see him decide he would consider a job in another city without talking to Kate.  

[Dreamboat Annie]

So, Madison called off the wedding.  Gee, no one here predicted that.  No one.  Nope.nope... Noooooo.  She called off her wedding to the man she's in love with, the father of her children, but she did the right thing.  For five seasons, we've watched these damaged souls navigate their way through their many issues and it turns out I was more riveted by the small parts of this one episode dealing with Madison's history.  I was heartbroken for her.  But proud of her for working through it and coming to the conclusion she did.  She finally realized that she doesn't have to accept the little scraps she's thrown as being enough, because she deserves so much more than that.  She doesn't deserve marriage to someone who is not in love with her.  It explained a lot for me.  Like for instance why, WHY, she kept trying so hard to befriend Kate back then when Kate was just awful to her.  Ghastly.  Scraps.  

I hope if they do revisit the Kevin Sophie thing, that that tooth comes out fast and the hole heals quickly.  I'd like to see them together, only once though, Kevin bored, his mind wandering to a time when he and Madison were having fun together.  Not with the babies too, just him and Madison.  And he misses her.  Then he says his final goodbyes to Sophie.  

Rebecca, Rebecca, Rebecca.  You played that all wrong!  You should have told Jack that the two leading ladies were going to engage in an all out catfight in the pool after one shoves the other in and falls in, too (wasn't there also a mud catfight?) and a tape with the episode you wanted to see would have magically appeared in 30 seconds or less.  I didn't like the wedding re-enactment but I don't think it was done just for filler.  For all the talking this family does, it showed the children that one grand gesture replaces the conflict, which is swept under the rug and ignored instead of being dealt with.  

I get it about hideous bridesmaids dresses which absolutely no one is comfortable wearing.  But imo that's not what this was.  I thought the dress was GORGEOUS, it looked like it was tailor-made for her and she was a knockout in it.  Is there a name for that colour?  It was hardly a pepto-bismol puffy, frilly dress.  The colour seemed almost frosted.  Beautiful.  But it wasn't "her".  In the past ten years or so (maybe more) we have been to weddings where the bridesmaids (more often if they are young - under 30) get changed after the ceremony and dinner, because they want to be more comfortable to enjoy the party.  As a bride I would prefer that to being blindsided by a bridesmaid walking up the aisle having altered the dress I chose.  Tess' behaviour on someone else's wedding day was unacceptable.  I wonder if she would have apologized and told Beth she loved her if Beth had told her to suck it up (as she should have)?  Tess seems to enjoy watching her mother nervously and awkwardly run circles around her, yet she claims to not want to be treated differently from her sisters.  Hey, Tess - if you don't want to be treated differently, then don't behave differently (ie. like a spoiled brat).  

I was not shocked or even surprised by the ending.  A few episodes ago, during one of Brit guy's rants, I said to my son "That is who Kate is going to end up with".  My son was surprised to hear that but he knows that I find some aspects of this show predictable.  What did it for me was his hate for her for no reason whatsoever.  To me it was akin to pulling her ponytail in the playground, snatching her scrunchie in the schoolyard etc., lol.  Not to mention that this type of thing is routine in TV Land, always complete with the predictable outcome.  In this episode, he knew she could leave at any time but when faced with the possibility of never seeing her again, he came up with refusing to accept her resignation.  I like Toby but I've never been sure if I liked Kate and Toby together.  They never seemed to have found a way to work through their problems, and this could be wrong of course, but sometimes I got a weird vibe that Kate should feel like the lucky one in the relationship.  Brit guy seemed so happy in the flash forward, like "I'm with Kate and I'm the luckiest guy ever!".  Although my feelings about Kate have fluctuated over the years, she deserves that.  Whether it really is Kate and Brit guy's wedding in that flash forward is anybody's guess (and I hope it is), but you can be sure that if Kate and Toby split, it won't be the Pearson blood family member who comes off as the jerk or the reason for the split.  

Oh Randy P!  I'm so over Randall's identity crisis, we need a new word for over.  Seeing him there once again, having an emotional talk with one of his mothers, tears streaming down his face, with babbling brooks, rivers and lakes all around, and all I could think was PLEASE LEAVE YOUR CLOTHES ON.  Yikes.  

What I found is that this show is so much more fun to watch once your gummies have kicked in.  Lesson learned.  

[buckboard]

11 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

 

Not to mention, have we seen non-binary Tess wearing non-binary clothing?  

And I guess I'm also confused non-binary.  Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't non-binary mean that you identify with both genders and therefore you wouldn't eschew either femininity or masculinity?  

 

 

Tess is not non-binary.  Her friend is.  Most people fall into either male or female gender categories, non-binary people do not. 

I think the attached link explains the concept very clearly.

https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-non-binary-people-how-to-be-respectful-and-supportive#:~:text=Many non-binary people use,show respect for someone's identity.

[buckboard]

10 hours ago, PRgal said:

But Alex was born female?  Maybe that’s why Tess still uses lesbian?  It’s such a confusing world these days.  I have to be honest, but my head spins half the time.  I can understand why Beth is the way she is. 

Tess is not non-binary.  Her friend is.  If the concept is too hard to understand, why not look it up.  That's what I did.
{Because I know most people who are confused by the concept won't bother to look into it, I wish the show had just left it that Tess and her friend are both lesbians or bi.)

https://transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-non-binary-people-how-to-be-respectful-and-supportive#:~:text=Many non-binary people use,show respect for someone's identity.

[Bklyndeb]

11 hours ago, cameron said:

Guess I'm probably the only one out there that doesn't like Uncle Nicky.  

Nope. I don't get the appeal either

[tennisgurl]

I was just watching Rebecca and her tape like “wow, life before DVR and streaming was ROUGH!” If I grew up before DVDs and DVR I would have been pissed to have my shows taped over too! I can’t even imagine only getting one shot to watch a show! 

Edited May 27, 2021 by tennisgurl

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I was just watching Rebecca and her tape like “wow, life before DVR and streaming was ROUGH!” If I grew up before DVDs and DVR I would have been pissed to have my shows taped over too! 

They were dark days...

[nilyank]

While Harvard and Penn are really great opportunites for Malik, I don't think those would be my first choices if my dream is to opening my own restaurant and being a top chef.

They gave Madison a bunch a flashbacks that made me really feel for her. She did the right thing by choosing more for herself. She wants the person that she marries to be in love with her. I hope she gets that dream fulfilled. She already got the Pearsons as her adopted family. Of course, I want it to be Kevin in the end. I don't want to spend the final season seeing Kevin fall in love with a new character or worse end with Sophie (who was never interesting in the flashbacks or current timelines).

[maggiemae]

11 hours ago, Aloeonatable said:

I think all Beth did to alter Tess' dress was to put a black t-shirt over the dress (you could see the pink above the t-shirt neckline), put the flower appliqué on top and pull the dress up a little in front to give it an uneven hemline. I didn't like Tess' complaining and Beth's capitulation, but as it turned out, there was not wedding!

These are probably unpopular opinions/speculations, but I hope Kevin finds a new love, not Sophie or Madison. I also hope that Nicky doesn't marry Sally, but also in his search finds a new love. 

Nevertheless -  Tess would look odd compared to the other bridesmaids.

It was the bride's day. Not Tess's day to look special and out of place.

[PRgal]

46 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

They were dark days...

Very dark.  I don’t know what’s worse:  Jack taping over Rebecca’s show or had the tape run out before the show ended.  

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, virginia blue said:

I think the showrunners are making a risky choice here with the Kate/Toby/Philip twist. Love them or hate them, the show has invested a lot of time and energy into Kate and Toby’s relationship. We saw them meet, fall in love, weather health crises, have children. It’s going to be emotionally draining to watch that unravel. And I can’t imagine how they’ll get to the point that the audience is actually rooting for Kate and Philip, especially given that he’s been presented thus far as a rather unpleasant arrogant jerk.

Am I the only one who is afraid that Miguel is dead or otherwise out of the picture in 2025 and the wife Nicky is referring to is...Rebecca? I swear I will throw something at the screen if the showrunners go that route.

I think I know more about Toby than I do Kate.  I know I know more about Toby than Annie.

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm quoting myself because I have an addendum.   I asked my mom if my dad would ever have taped over her Dallas for a baseball game. and the short answer is no.  She went on to add that my dad would tape St. Elsewhere for her when she was bowling.  Take that Jack Pearson.  

I'm sure my dad absolutely hated Dallas and St. Elsewhere and whatever other drama my mom watched on the regular in the 80s, but he loved my mom and kept his mouth shut for the 3 hours a week they were on.  Jack Pearson could learn a few things from John Pirate.

Your Dad and Mom sound awesome.

Jack would never let Rebecca go bowling. He would show up with the three kids because that is the type of family they are.

2 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

So, Madison called off the wedding.  Gee, no one here predicted that.  No one.  Nope.nope... Noooooo.  She called off her wedding to the man she's in love with, the father of her children, but she did the right thing.  For five seasons, we've watched these damaged souls navigate their way through their many issues and it turns out I was more riveted by the small parts of this one episode dealing with Madison's history.  I was heartbroken for her.  But proud of her for working through it and coming to the conclusion she did.  She finally realized that she doesn't have to accept the little scraps she's thrown as being enough, because she deserves so much more than that.  She doesn't deserve marriage to someone who is not in love with her.  It explained a lot for me.  Like for instance why, WHY, she kept trying so hard to befriend Kate back then when Kate was just awful to her.  Ghastly.  Scraps.  

I hope if they do revisit the Kevin Sophie thing, that that tooth comes out fast and the hole heals quickly.  I'd like to see them together, only once though, Kevin bored, his mind wandering to a time when he and Madison were having fun together.  Not with the babies too, just him and Madison.  And he misses her.  Then he says his final goodbyes to Sophie.  

Rebecca, Rebecca, Rebecca.  You played that all wrong!  You should have told Jack that the two leading ladies were going to engage in an all out catfight in the pool after one shoves the other in and falls in, too (wasn't there also a mud catfight?) and a tape with the episode you wanted to see would have magically appeared in 30 seconds or less.  I didn't like the wedding re-enactment but I don't think it was done just for filler.  For all the talking this family does, it showed the children that one grand gesture replaces the conflict, which is swept under the rug and ignored instead of being dealt with.  

I get it about hideous bridesmaids dresses which absolutely no one is comfortable wearing.  But imo that's not what this was.  I thought the dress was GORGEOUS, it looked like it was tailor-made for her and she was a knockout in it.  Is there a name for that colour?  It was hardly a pepto-bismol puffy, frilly dress.  The colour seemed almost frosted.  Beautiful.  But it wasn't "her".  In the past ten years or so (maybe more) we have been to weddings where the bridesmaids (more often if they are young - under 30) get changed after the ceremony and dinner, because they want to be more comfortable to enjoy the party.  As a bride I would prefer that to being blindsided by a bridesmaid walking up the aisle having altered the dress I chose.  Tess' behaviour on someone else's wedding day was unacceptable.  I wonder if she would have apologized and told Beth she loved her if Beth had told her to suck it up (as she should have)?  Tess seems to enjoy watching her mother nervously and awkwardly run circles around her, yet she claims to not want to be treated differently from her sisters.  Hey, Tess - if you don't want to be treated differently, then don't behave differently (ie. like a spoiled brat).  

I was not shocked or even surprised by the ending.  A few episodes ago, during one of Brit guy's rants, I said to my son "That is who Kate is going to end up with".  My son was surprised to hear that but he knows that I find some aspects of this show predictable.  What did it for me was his hate for her for no reason whatsoever.  To me it was akin to pulling her ponytail in the playground, snatching her scrunchie in the schoolyard etc., lol.  Not to mention that this type of thing is routine in TV Land, always complete with the predictable outcome.  In this episode, he knew she could leave at any time but when faced with the possibility of never seeing her again, he came up with refusing to accept her resignation.  I like Toby but I've never been sure if I liked Kate and Toby together.  They never seemed to have found a way to work through their problems, and this could be wrong of course, but sometimes I got a weird vibe that Kate should feel like the lucky one in the relationship.  Brit guy seemed so happy in the flash forward, like "I'm with Kate and I'm the luckiest guy ever!".  Although my feelings about Kate have fluctuated over the years, she deserves that.  Whether it really is Kate and Brit guy's wedding in that flash forward is anybody's guess (and I hope it is), but you can be sure that if Kate and Toby split, it won't be the Pearson blood family member who comes off as the jerk or the reason for the split.  

Oh Randy P!  I'm so over Randall's identity crisis, we need a new word for over.  Seeing him there once again, having an emotional talk with one of his mothers, tears streaming down his face, with babbling brooks, rivers and lakes all around, and all I could think was PLEASE LEAVE YOUR CLOTHES ON.  Yikes.  

What I found is that this show is so much more fun to watch once your gummies have kicked in.  Lesson learned.  

Yep, instead of talking about how Jack made a mistake and then acted like an asshole about it, we get Rebecca marrying her children and bragging about how she does not have any friends because everyone is jealous of her relationship with Jack.

Keep telling yourself that Rebecca.

Edited May 27, 2021 by qtpye

[Kktjones]

21 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Quote of the night: ".....my brain won't actually allow me to add him to scenes sometimes.....". If only that applied to the writers!  Those scenes were pointless.  I FF'd through their "wedding." And we have another season of useless Jack scenes to come.

Amen! I have been FFing through a lot of the flashbacks this season. I've never been a Jack fan and it just feels like his character has run it's course. I'm so much more interested in the rest of the family and would love to see more of their lives as young adults...

[SunnyBeBe]

13 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

Amen! I have been FFing through a lot of the flashbacks this season. I've never been a Jack fan and it just feels like his character has run it's course. I'm so much more interested in the rest of the family and would love to see more of their lives as young adults...

When old Jack appears on the screen, I cringe.  I can barely tolerate him.  How did they turn a nice character into someone I despise?  They will not let up. I’m expecting him and Rebecca to be the last characters on the screen in the series finale.  

[BoogieBurns]

I don't know if I've already mentioned this. But my mother went into labor with me right before a VERY IMPORTANT EPISODE of Dynasty. Although it was a quick delivery, my parents missed the episode entirely.

They're still annoyed that I ruined their primetime TV plans, lol. They have never seen the episode they missed. When I asked my Dad about it, he said "we should have gotten a puppy instead of having another kid." Lololol Talk about Must See TV!

ETA: Oh, it may have been Dallas. They came on the same night. Mom says it was Dynasty, Dad says Dallas. Same thing, watercooler-stakes-wise.

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, Bklyndeb said:

Nope. I don't get the appeal either

Nicky has never been a favorite of mine, but then, neither has Miguel.

In terms of Kate/Toby, I remember when they first met and how that slowly evolved.  I agree that they're both not communicating, but to know that the flash forward points toward her marrying the choir director...and all of this happens rather quickly within the next few years...it's just unfortunate.  We don't yet know who does what to bring everything about, but the flash forward where Toby is sitting alone in his bedroom is simply sad.

[CarpeFelis]

I already couldn’t stand Nicky and his attitude, and his behavior in this episode was mega-annoying. Following Kevin around all day shooting video (which it appeared Kevin didn’t even want) was bad enough, but expecting him and Madison to repeat a conversation for him took a lot of nerve. Sending the chairs to the wedding venue was dumb, and expecting Kevin to tip the movers was beyond rude.

[bros402]

With the Tess and the Dress stuff (Say Tess To The Dress? :P) I was thinking she was just going to say she was transmale or nonbinary and then the dress was going to be altered by SuperBeth into shorts or something....but nope, she wanted it to be black and tilted?

 

also, yeah, that twist, holy crap.

I'm hoping the wife that Nicky refers to is that woman he didn't go to Woodstock with.

[CrystalBlue]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I was just watching Rebecca and her tape like “wow, life before DVR and streaming was ROUGH!” If I grew up before DVDs and DVR I would have been pissed to have my shows taped over too! I can’t even imagine only getting one shot to watch a show! 

Didn't shows have summer reruns?  Rebecca could have caught the "encore presentation" but by then everyone in town and on the phone would've been talking about what happened on Dynasty so the initial surprise would have been ruined.  Jack was truly a dolt to have taped a stupid ball game over his wife's once-a-week TV treat.

[CrystalBlue]

42 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

I already couldn’t stand Nicky and his attitude, and his behavior in this episode was mega-annoying. Following Kevin around all day shooting video (which it appeared Kevin didn’t even want) was bad enough, but expecting him and Madison to repeat a conversation for him took a lot of nerve. Sending the chairs to the wedding venue was dumb, and expecting Kevin to tip the movers was beyond rude.

I love Nicky, although I don't know if I'd be as big a fan if he weren't Griffin Dunne.  But you're not wrong about this.  It's just Nicky embracing his fairly newly-found grasp on modern technology and being a hermit for decades resulting in social awkwardness.

[chocolatine]

6 hours ago, virginia blue said:

I think the showrunners are making a risky choice here with the Kate/Toby/Philip twist. Love them or hate them, the show has invested a lot of time and energy into Kate and Toby’s relationship. We saw them meet, fall in love, weather health crises, have children. It’s going to be emotionally draining to watch that unravel. And I can’t imagine how they’ll get to the point that the audience is actually rooting for Kate and Philip, especially given that he’s been presented thus far as a rather unpleasant arrogant jerk.

Philip is a teacher at Jack's school, so maybe he develops a special bond with Jack. We know that Toby has struggled to come to terms with Jack's blindness, so Kate could it see it as Philip accepting Jack unconditionally whereas Toby couldn't/wouldn't. Or maybe it's something more overt and soapy like Jack running into traffic and Philip risking his own life to save Jack's.

Edited May 27, 2021 by chocolatine

[BrownBear2012]

8 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Don't you understand? Simply having proximity to the magic that is Randall "Rising Star" Pearson makes every child an academic genius, no matter how difficult it might seem in their circumstances.

Malik is one of the best students in the country, despite raising a baby, and working at a garage, and cutting school to be with his girlfriend, and being so bad at multi-tasking that he didn't even notice that he was broadcasting Randall stripping down and dancing to all the world.

Deja had a horrific childhood where she scraped by to survive, but once she gets adopted by Randall she's a straight-A student right away, leaving everyone in her class in the dust.

And now Alex is valedictorian! Like most students who dedicate "screw you" videos to their teachers on social media, she has a single-minded focus on her grades.

I'm so sick of TV shows depicting any reasonably smart child character as having a 5.0 GPA and being Harvard-bound. Enough!

Here here!!!👏👏👏

[circumvent]

I liked most of the episode. Nothing really stuck out for me, they went for the cliche of one partner realizing, last minute, that getting married is not the thing they want, but it wasn't as saccharine as most shows do. 

Like people have mentioned, Harvard in not in Boston and if Malik thinks that it is, he should be unaccepted. 

I didn't mind Tess throwing a little fit over the dress, she is a moody teenager. What I don't get it, is how come she didn't know what the dress looked like. She doesn't have a problem speaking her mind to at least one person every episode, she could have said no to being a bridesmaid, She could have been extra nice and tell Madison that she loved her and uncle Kevin, but she doesn't want to wear that dress. Probably not the nicest thing to do, a little selfish, but in character. She also would have tried the dress for fitting, it was hardly a surprise. 

But more than that, why can't bridesmaids choose their own dresses? I have friends who just told theirs the color and length she wanted for the dresses, and that was it. They picked their own design. Nobody really cared if they didn't have the same dress. It is a silly tradition, imo. 

 

[gameshowjunkie]

10 hours ago, MBayGal said:

I haven't read anything from the showrunners, so I'm just speculating, but my guess is that they are sending malik off to harvard because he is leaving the show.  then deja can have a new problem next season.

It never made sense to have him looking at ivy league schools in the first place. If he wants to be a chef he should be looking at something like the CIA. 

[gameshowjunkie]

4 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Didn't shows have summer reruns?  Rebecca could have caught the "encore presentation" but by then everyone in town and on the phone would've been talking about what happened on Dynasty so the initial surprise would have been ruined.  Jack was truly a dolt to have taped a stupid ball game over his wife's once-a-week TV treat.

Kids watching that episode would have been so confused! It was such a huge deal then to watch things live, not like now where people DVR everything. Jack was a real jerk about it.

[JudyObscure]

53 minutes ago, circumvent said:

 It is a silly tradition, imo. 

The entire fashion industry has convinced people that the only way to express themselves is through the cloth they put over their bodies, so that you have kids refusing to put something on  for a few hours that isn't the way they want to "present themselves to the world" and mothers destroying extremely over-priced garments so they can never be returned.  It is all silly imo.

In the dark days of VHS tapes, I carefully recorded an entire library of good shows I was saving for my old age.  Only to have my last two VCR recorders die while tearing up tapes and now it's nearly impossible to find players at all.  So I threw them all out.  Same with wall to wall book cases of favorite books that I can no longer read because they aren't large print. 

Moral of the story:  Give up. You never know what might happen.  The whole world might get some dire disease so that you have to stay home for an entire  year with nothing to read or watch on the flat screen TV you can barely hear.

 

 

[Chatty Cake]

I was up and down with this season and feel it ended on the down. I really wanted a beautiful wedding for Kevin and Madison. I didn’t see it as her getting scraps or settling, I saw it as building a great life together. 
I get Rebecca being pissed about her vhs tape but thought the kids reaction was over the top and made little sense. The little family wedding was corny and stupid. Jack should have found someone who had recorded it and borrowed it so she could watch it. 
Why to make a bratty brat even more entitled Beth. The dress was lovely and she didn’t need to make a fuss over it. It was for one afternoon that didn’t happen. 
The glimpse in the future makes no sense. There’s no way that snooty teacher is going to love all over Kate. Sorry not buying it. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, circumvent said:

But more than that, why can't bridesmaids choose their own dresses? I have friends who just told theirs the color and length she wanted for the dresses, and that was it. They picked their own design. Nobody really cared if they didn't have the same dress. It is a silly tradition, imo. 

That's what my daughter did, except just picked the color, and they all looked great and comfortable. Some chose dresses they already had. To me it's better than a uniform look anyway.

5 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I love Nicky, although I don't know if I'd be as big a fan if he weren't Griffin Dunne.  But you're not wrong about this.  It's just Nicky embracing his fairly newly-found grasp on modern technology and being a hermit for decades resulting in social awkwardness.

I've always liked the character and actor, but they have been trying to make him into comic relief and that annoys me.

[circumvent]

15 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

The entire fashion industry has convinced people that the only way to express themselves is through the cloth they put over their bodies, so that you have kids refusing to put something on  for a few hours that isn't the way they want to "present themselves to the world" and mothers destroying extremely over-priced garments so they can never be returned.  It is all silly imo.

True, it is all silly (I think the whole institution of marriage is silly, and weddings are boring, so). I disagree that teenagers expressing themselves through clothes is silly though. It is part of being a teenager. The difference now is that teenagers can do that in a non-conforming way. Destroying overpriced dresses is absurd, and back to my point of how come Tess didn't know she had been invited to wear that dress, and ow come being such a  "brat" she didn't complain before - out of character. 

 

[JayDub1987]

10 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I'm also surprised that Tess behaved this way at Kevin's wedding.  She's always been very close to her uncle, and it was disheartening that she wouldn't want to wear the dress simply to make Madison and therefore Kevin's day more pleasant.  He was one of the first people whom she told she was a lesbian.

Why was it surprising? Ever since they started this whole storyline with Tess, she's been a self absorbed jerk. They've gone above and beyond to make sure that she acts like every word, every look and every action is an assault on her relationship with her they-bey. If they were trying to make me like a character less than I like Kate, they nailed it with Tess.

 

[Johnny Dollar]

St. Jack Pearson sure did turn out some seriously messed up adults.

Beth missed an opportunity to teach her daughter all about selflessness. The world doesn’t revolve around her. Nobody wants to wear brides maids dresses so suck it up for a few hours.

I predict that Toby cheats on Kate, which leads to the breakup. Heaven forbid a Pearson would ever be blamed for screwing up their life. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Johnny Dollar

[qtpye]

38 minutes ago, JayDub1987 said:

Why was it surprising? Ever since they started this whole storyline with Tess, she's been a self absorbed jerk. They've gone above and beyond to make sure that she acts like every word, every look and every action is an assault on her relationship with her they-bey. If they were trying to make me like a character less than I like Kate, they nailed it with Tess.

 

Yes, it is almost like one of the writers is a secret homophobe because of how over the top unbearable they have made Tess. They have also made formerly awesome Beth more spineless than Rebecca in dealing with her entitled child.

This is similar to how I think some people might not go through with a transracial adoption because how insufferable they have made Randall, even though it is stupid to base that sort of decision on a fictional tv show.

I don’t think they need to make Tess perfect...dealing with your sexuality is difficult at that age. I am just sick of Tess screaming at Beth and Beth bowing and scraping to her whims in hopes of a receiving a shred of affection.

Edited May 27, 2021 by qtpye

[Jillybean]

I think Madison may be wearing the earrings from her mother in the flash-forward at Kate's wedding. Anyone else?

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, Chatty Cake said:

 Jack should have found someone who had recorded it and borrowed it so she could watch it. 

Or Rebecca could have done that by herself. Of course they both have no real friends because they are so perfect together (except Miguel who never counts). The Pearsons are so self-sufficient that even references to incestuous marriage are sweet (I counted two).

I wanted Madison and Kevin to go for a non-conventional love story but maybe Madison made the right decision after all.

[JayDub1987]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Yes, it is almost like one of the writers is a secret homophobe because of how over the top unbearable they have made Tess. They have also made formerly awesome Beth more spineless than Rebecca in dealing with her entitled child.

This is similar to how I think some people might not go through with a transracial adoption because how insufferable they have made Randall, even though it is stupid to base that sort of decision on a fictional tv show.

I don’t think they need to make Tess perfect...dealing with your sexuality is difficult at that age. I am just sick of Tess screaming at Beth and Beth bowing and scraping to her whims in hopes of a receiving a shred of affection.

Exactly. I was hoping that it didn't come across like I hate Tess because of her sexuality. I'm a very "live and let live" kinda guy. Sleep with whoever you want to, love whoever you want to, but don't be an asshole about it, either. They have made Tess absolutely horrible, and they've made Beth just as bad. 

Tess could be conflicted, confused and even angry at times without being this snot nosed bitch that they've turned her into. I'm sorry, yelling at your family because they're adjusting to referring to a single person as a "they" is not acceptable. There's a learning curve on this sort of thing. Getting mad because your mother doesn't want you making out with someone on your bed is unacceptable. My mama woulda slapped me upside my head. Tess is a bitch and Beth is so scared of a teenager being mad at her that she'd rather kiss her ass than be a parent.

[txhorns79]

7 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Rebecca could have caught the "encore presentation" but by then everyone in town and on the phone would've been talking about what happened on Dynasty so the initial surprise would have been ruined. 

It's interesting.  Rebecca already seemed to know that there was going to be a massacre without having watched the episode, and it wasn't announced who died until the season premiere (the episode ends with most of the cast in a large pile of bodies as church bells ring), so she really could have watched the rerun when it aired without being spoiled.

 

[SunnyBeBe]

8 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I love Nicky, although I don't know if I'd be as big a fan if he weren't Griffin Dunne.  But you're not wrong about this.  It's just Nicky embracing his fairly newly-found grasp on modern technology and being a hermit for decades resulting in social awkwardness.

I love Griffin Dunne too and it’s unfortunate that his character is not that winning.  I try to like Nicky, but it’s difficult. I bet he likes playing Nicky though.  It’s a complex role. 
 

Ken Olin is the producer.  I wonder what his explanation would be for the over the top bratty behavior of Tess.  She told her parents she was attracted to girls, not boys previously. Her parents accepted it and have tried to be supportive. Yet, Tess has done nothing but become more and more bratty.  What is the show trying to say?  I’m confused. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[ShadowFacts]

41 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I love Griffin Dunne too and it’s unfortunate that his character is not that winning.  I try to like Nicky, but it’s difficult. I bet he likes playing Nicky though.  It’s a complex role. 
 

Ken Olin is the producer.  I wonder what his explanation would be for the over the top bratty behavior of Tess.  She told her parents she was attracted to girls, not boys previously. Her parents accepted it and have tried to be supportive. Yet, Tess has done nothing but become more and more bratty.  What is the show trying to say?  I’m confused. 

What I'm getting from Tess and her behavior is that she is much like Randall, which she said she doesn't want to be anything like him if I remember correctly.  She has anxiety, and she is not the same as the rest of her family but in a different way than Randall was.  For him, he wanted to be perfect in school so he would be accepted.  She seems to be testing how much she can do and say and still be accepted.  I don't really know what they're trying to get across, other than there's a lot of anguish with being in a family where you stand out as different.  In both generations, mom and dad are trying hard to handle the child either by lavishing attention or getting out the kid gloves.  It's hard to know what's the right thing to do. To us the viewers it seems obvious Beth shouldn't have buckled, but she's trying to navigate the uncharted waters.

[Persnickety1]

So let down by this finale.  Let me try to count the ways.

*So Rebecca feels compelled to apologize to Randall yet again.  Please, show, please.  Been there, done that a few times now.  It's played out.

*Tess's girlfriend, who I believe was also the one with Tess when they made that video cursing and mocking the teachers or whatever that mess was, is now valedictorian of the class a year later?  The shark has been jumped, show.  

*Instead of explaining to Tess that not every moment in her life will revolve around her, Beth totally coddles her.  Again, please, show.  I eye rolled so hard I saw parts of my brain I didn't even know I had.  

*So Kate just had to call the British dude on Kevin's wedding day to tender her resignation?  Seriously?  And puffed up like a peacock when he refused to accept it.  Of course, she didn't even bother to wait until her next day at work to explain that her husband had landed a job up in SF or any details...but she was compelled to call and quit on the spot.  Again, on Kevin's wedding day.  

I did like the way Madison came to the realization that Kevin couldn't even envision a future with her and accepted the fact that he wasn't in love with her, and so she called off the wedding.  I was holding my breath waiting for the writers to have Sophie show up at the wedding and Kevin bound from the altar to run off into the sunset with her.  

I usually love this show, but I found this finale all sorts of ridiculous.  I've been cutting the show runners a lot of slack because of the COVID restrictions, Mandy Moore's pregnancy, etc., but I really expected better than this.  

That being said, I'll still be all in for next season.  

[Trillian]

13 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm quoting myself because I have an addendum.   I asked my mom if my dad would ever have taped over her Dallas for a baseball game. and the short answer is no.  She went on to add that my dad would tape St. Elsewhere for her when she was bowling.  Take that Jack Pearson.  

I'm sure my dad absolutely hated Dallas and St. Elsewhere and whatever other drama my mom watched on the regular in the 80s, but he loved my mom and kept his mouth shut for the 3 hours a week they were on.  Jack Pearson could learn a few things from John Pirate.

Question is, did Jack see he wasn’t supposed to tape over it and did anyway or did he just not bother to look?  His refusing to apologize and insulting her show was an asshole move regardless. 

Not victim blaming, but Rebecca’s a novice at this VHS thing. My husband (not a Jack-style asshole) still could not be trusted not to grab the nearest tape and shove it in the VCR without noticing the “do not tape over” label and I didn’t like to knock out the tabs unless I knew I’d want to keep something forever. So I’d hide my tapes. Every once in a while I still find a VHS tape buried in the back of a closet or a drawer I haven’t cleaned out for years. 

[PRgal]

21 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

So let down by this finale.  Let me try to count the ways.

*So Rebecca feels compelled to apologize to Randall yet again.  Please, show, please.  Been there, done that a few times now.  It's played out.

*Tess's girlfriend, who I believe was also the one with Tess when they made that video cursing and mocking the teachers or whatever that mess was, is now valedictorian of the class a year later?  The shark has been jumped, show.  

*Instead of explaining to Tess that not every moment in her life will revolve around her, Beth totally coddles her.  Again, please, show.  I eye rolled so hard I saw parts of my brain I didn't even know I had.  

*So Kate just had to call the British dude on Kevin's wedding day to tender her resignation?  Seriously?  And puffed up like a peacock when he refused to accept it.  Of course, she didn't even bother to wait until her next day at work to explain that her husband had landed a job up in SF or any details...but she was compelled to call and quit on the spot.  Again, on Kevin's wedding day.  

I did like the way Madison came to the realization that Kevin couldn't even envision a future with her and accepted the fact that he wasn't in love with her, and so she called off the wedding.  I was holding my breath waiting for the writers to have Sophie show up at the wedding and Kevin bound from the altar to run off into the sunset with her.  

I usually love this show, but I found this finale all sorts of ridiculous.  I've been cutting the show runners a lot of slack because of the COVID restrictions, Mandy Moore's pregnancy, etc., but I really expected better than this.  

That being said, I'll still be all in for next season.  

Alex isn't Tess's girlfriend since they're non-binary.  And I'm not sure if "partner" is appropriate when they're in middle school, either.  As for them being valedictorian, was it ever said that they were in the same grade?  I don't remember.  Or maybe the school does grade valedictorians?  Weird, I know.  As for Kate's resignation, a phone call?  It doesn't really seem professional.  She should be sending an email.  

By the way, I'm a Canadian from Toronto and those chairs are called Muskokas here.  

[Rootbeer]

19 hours ago, Empress1 said:

If he decides to go to Harvard, the tricky thing will be figuring out what to do with his daughter - I doubt you can have a baby in the dorms. At my alma mater, someone in my major had a toddler our senior year (when I met her). She took her last final sophomore year when she was pregnant, gave birth over the summer, and came back junior year and graduated on time. She had a lot of help though. She was from the city where our school was and the baby's father wasn't a student, so she moved in with him and had his and her family's help with their kid. Malik would either have to live off campus with the baby (which might fuck up his financial aid) and find child care for her, or he could leave the baby with his parents while he goes to school. In his shoes I think I'd go to Penn and be a commuter student.

 

We already know that his baby's mother is living in Boston and that she now wants to be involved with their daughter.  I presume that one of the reasons he applied to Harvard is so that he and their daughter can be closer to her mother and that she and/or her family will help with childcare.  Even though Malik's parents currently have custody, I expect that, now that he is 18, he can ask for custody and it will very likely be granted to him.