S04.E06: The Club

[ElectricBoogaloo 77,011]

Quote

Kate and Toby try to make time for their marriage. Jack attempts to prove himself to Rebecca's father. Randall struggles to find his place with the other councilmen.

Promo:

Original air date: 10/29/19

[Spartan Girl 58,635]

NOOOOOOOOOOO WHY KEVIN WHYYYYYYY?!

[screenaddict 386]

I like Cassidy. I think she is an interesting character. But, unless I'm wrong, she is still married. I'm not comfortable watching this unfold.

[ShadowFacts 13,680]

Quite a few surprises.  Jack was using alcohol to cope right from the beginning of his relationship with Rebecca.  Randall was actually 'playing down' to the councilmen golfers.  And Kevin has apparently done the deed with the mother of his future child. 

[CleoCaesar 10,378]

Don't know how to feel about Kevin and Cassidy going there, but we got sweaty, shirtless Justin Hartley in this episode, so... *shrug*.

I don't know why but a Toby remark cracked me up. It was his explaining why having sex next to sleeping baby Jack would be okay: "He can't…you know… see us."

They’ll never do it, but it’s time to cut Milo V. out of the show. 3+ seasons in, we’ve seen all there is to see of Jack. The endless flashbacks to Jack and Rebecca's dating years are dragging down the show, IMO. I want to see how Rebecca moved on after his death, how the kids fared, how life moved on. Not see how Rebecca's dad was mean to him. Who cares, for real.

I would have much preferred to see teen Kate’s relationship with her dodgy coworker fleshed out and how it apparently affected her, or see the fallout from teen Kevin’s marriage. Instead of Randall golf montages and his millionth identity crisis stemming from his adoption. Stop spinning your wheels, show.

[ams1001 57,169]

Miggy Stardust 😄

[greekmom 51,709]

My take:

1. I loved the fact that Randall played down his golf skills and he was actually very good.

2. I think that Toby actually does not find Kate attractive anymore. It's very hard when one person in a couple loses or gains weight. It's almost like a betrayal of sorts.

3. Kevin without his shirt... puurrrrr!!!  

[Eureka 2,039]

Boring episode. DS16 and I were doing some online shopping during the show. Normally we don’t multitask at all while it’s on. 

I didn’t want Kevin to go there with what’s her name (vet that I still don’t care about). 

Miggy Stardust made me laugh though.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Eureka

[Jax7917 16,456]

This episode was boring . I agree with the poster above about cutting Milo out at this point . I like the actor and I used to enjoy his story lines , but I’m just oh so sick of his myriad of dialogues and how he felt like he wasn’t good enough for Rebecca . They are beating it to death at this point 

the Kevin / Cassidy story seems too predictable for her to be the mother of his child , though the show does go the predictable route at times so who knows . It’s mean but there’s something about her face that I can’t stand and I just don’t know why 

[stonehaven 5,033]

I am not happy about Kevin going there with the vet. I would rather have had Kevin and Nicky on a hike. That trailer Kevin had looked really sweet.

I think the teen Randall segment was meant not to show Randall's insecurities but Jack's at not getting the bond he thought he should have with Randall. I hope they don't cut Milo out of the show as I really like him on this show. I LOATHED him on American Dreams but I can finally root for him here.

The Kate/Toby stuff bored me. Still, a boring episode of this show is still better than some of the crap that's on TV right now.

[tomsmom 1,699]

This show has become so predictable and boring.

Next week adventures of Deja and Teen Dad 🙄

Edited October 30, 2019 by tomsmom

[MissT 2,532]

Boring... I was online the whole time.  Didn’t like any of the story lines. 

Did Nicky know Cassidy was in there? 

[LaJefaza 1,732]

Earlier in the episode I told myself there isn't anything I want to see LESS on my screen than Rebecca's father humiliating Jack on the golf course because I was tired of it before it even happened. Then the show had its 'hold my beer' moment and had Kevin and Cass hook up. I mean, NOBODY was shocked I'm sure, but I had hoped it was still a few episodes away. Serves me right, I guess.

On another note...."This one's for you, pop." That whole scene...dammit, Sterling K Brown.  I did NOT need those feels tonight. 

[geauxaway 26,341]

28 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

This episode was boring . I agree with the poster above about cutting Milo out at this point . I like the actor and I used to enjoy his story lines , but I’m just oh so sick of his myriad of dialogues and how he felt like he wasn’t good enough for Rebecca . They are beating it to death at this point 

the Kevin / Cassidy story seems too predictable for her to be the mother of his child , though the show does go the predictable route at times so who knows . It’s mean but there’s something about her face that I can’t stand and I just don’t know why 

She looks like grumpy cat to me.  And I love(d) grumpy cat, but not this chick.  In my mind I refer to her as Major Downer.

[ams1001 57,169]

24 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

The Kate/Toby stuff bored me. Still, a boring episode of this show is still better than some of the crap that's on TV right now.

Can't disagree with that... I'm watching New Amsterdam right now. 😜

[ItCouldBeWorse 11,411]

21 hours ago, MissT said:

Did Nicky know Cassidy was in there? 

I sure hope not, no matter how good the cold cuts were.

Rebecca's dad made a quick turnaround, encouraging Jack to apply for a job that could lead to him being able to marry her.

When Toby mentioned 9 months and 21 (?) days with no sex, I thought that refraining for the whole pregnancy seemed too long, whereas 3 weeks postpartum seemed not long at all (I think 4-6 weeks is the typical recommendation for a vaginal birth), but then I realized that Jack was premature, so the pregnancy wasn't 9 months, and the postpartum period (adding together the time Jack was in the hospital plus the time since he's been home) is probably longer than 3 weeks, so that statement was meaningless.

Finally, the woman Kevin was bringing back to his camper played Cassidy on The Middle (and also had a role on The Kids are Alright as the oldest brother's supposedly much older girlfriend), so that's 2 Cassidy's!

Edited October 31, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Armchair Critic 77,849]

2 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

the woman Kevin was bringing back to his camper played Cassidy on The Middle

Thank you, I wondered what I knew her from

[Lady Calypso 73,345]

No surprise, with an episode that's 50% about golf, that it would end up being one of the most boring episodes.

Unfortunately, it wasn't bad, but it was boring, which may be worse than bad. I found myself tuning out at various points. I liked Randall telling off Jack when he tried with his excuses as to why he didn't get why Randall was so upset. But that's about it.

Nicky and Kevin's family relationship works well for me. I like how there's a little bit of tension and that they don't always get along. But yeah, not feeling Cassidy/Kevin. I'm hoping that they already slept together because they're NOT ending up together. I think both of them need someone else. 

The Kate/Toby stuff? Meh. I'm on Toby's side; Kate's acting irrationally and I don't feel like she gave a sincere apology.

I was impressed with how Randall was playing the politicians, so the end scene with him hitting golf balls on his own was nice.

But yeah, the Jack/Rebecca stuff was the worst part of the episode.

[ByaNose 47,541]

1 hour ago, CleoCaesar said:

Don't know how to feel about Kevin and Cassidy going there, but we got sweaty, shirtless Justin Hartley in this episode, so... *shrug*.

I don't know why but a Toby remark cracked me up. It was his explaining why having sex next to sleeping baby Jack would be okay: "He can't…you know… see us."

They’ll never do it, but it’s time to cut Milo V. out of the show. 3+ seasons in, we’ve seen all there is to see of Jack. The endless flashbacks to Jack and Rebecca's dating years are dragging down the show, IMO. I want to see how Rebecca moved on after his death, how the kids fared, how life moved on. Not see how Rebecca's dad was mean to him. Who cares, for real.

I would have much preferred to see teen Kate’s relationship with her dodgy coworker fleshed out and how it apparently affected her, or see the fallout from teen Kevin’s marriage. Instead of Randall golf montages and his millionth identity crisis stemming from his adoption. Stop spinning your wheels, show.

I do wonder when they are going to start up the Rebecca and Miguel storyline. I doubt they could ever cut the cord with Jack though. He’s the heart & soul of the show. I guess they could still do both but it’s time to explain after Jack and how getting with Miguel came about. 

[tennisgurl 107,959]

That was about as exciting as...watching a bunch of random people play mediocre golf. There is so much that we could be covering right now in Pearson family history, why are we doing Randall identity angst again? I mean, there is a lot you can cover with those issues, and I liked some aspects of the episode in that regard, but its ground we have covered a lot already. I want to see more of post Jack family, or maybe the littler kids again if you want to keep Jack around, or even see how he and Miguel become best friends? 

I did like the talk about how Randall has to deal with being black, even if his parents struggle with that (the whole "I see people not color" was especially big in the 90s) but again, haven't we done this before? Finding out that Randall was deliberately laying badly was good though, and damn it if he memories of Jack while playing didnt hit me in the gut. 

Cassidy is a decently interesting character, but I am still not feeling Kevin/Cassidy. Not only is she still married (if estranged) and still has feelings for her husband, but the two of them feel like they could really feed some of their worst impulses. I dont much about addicts dating each other, but I do know it can be tough. Kevin is looking super hot though, so thats a plus to this story at least! 

I think that Toby and Kate need to really talk his weight loss out, its causing a real issue between them, especially considering how much Kate looks at her weight as such a big part of her identity, and how she and Toby both being heavy was how their whole relationship started. 

[buttersister 10,474]

I’d been a bit meh with this season, but Randall playing the games the way his father taught him got to me. Or maybe a rogue onion came in from the kitchen and started chopping itself? Either way, I’m all in for each scene about that. 

Kevin and Cassidy weren’t a surprise, but whatever gets me this a Justin Hartley is fine by me.

Love for Griffin Dunne maintained.

Oh yeah, normally, I’d rather watch paint dry than guys playing golf. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by buttersister

[colorbars 1,448]

I'm one of the few that doesn't mind Cassidy or her and Kevin together, but I've always been lukewarm on Kevin in general. I think maybe it's because I'm currently of the assumption that she's the mother of his kid (though that remains to be confirmed), so it feels like something important, at least.

Considering the flash forwards last season hinted at Kate and Toby not being together anymore, I'm taking their current tension a bit more seriously, but I doubt they'd break up anytime soon, so it's probably not related.

I agree that Jack kind of drags the show down at this point. I know they'd never cut him, so I wish they'd at least keep the flashbacks contained to the kid years. The war storyline last season, the dating years this season, what a snooze.

[chocolatine 37,707]

Predictable event #1: Kevin hooking up with Cassidy.

Predictable event #2: Of course Randall knows how to play golf, he held a senior-level job on Wall Street for many years.

Predictable event #3: Tension between Kate and Toby due to his weight loss. I can't fault Kate too much for suggesting that Toby keep the pants. My weight has fluctuated within a 30-pound range at various points in my adult life, and I've kept both the bigger and the smaller clothes in a storage bin at the back of the closet. It's not an emotional thing for me at all, I just like to know that if my weight fluctuates again, I'll have something to wear without having to spend money.

Predictable event #4: Rebecca's father trying to get Jack to a status that's "acceptable" to him. That was extremely cliched and didn't add anything to the show.

[Kirkydee 568]

I also don't mind Cassidy. .I actually like her character ( even if I am one of the few on this board who's NEVER heard of the actress before).  Maybe I like her because I was military ( no combat) and I prefer woman with no makeup. 

I didnt mind the episode, though I can appreciate why some found it boring. I generally dont come in with expectations about who and what they're gonna show.  I'll take each individual episode and go with it. 

I have a HARD time believing Toby couldn't perform after 9 months. Especially after working out and losing weight. Testosterone will increase, therefore libido will increase.  Unless he's been masturbating, he's ready to explode like Mount St Helen. Perform poorly (and quickly)?  Hell yeah!! Not perform at all? Like Chris Carter would say, "c'mon man"

[Mars477 1,475]

7 minutes ago, Kirkydee said:

I also don't mind Cassidy. .I actually like her character ( even if I am one of the few on this board who's NEVER heard of the actress before).  Maybe I like her because I was military ( no combat) and I prefer woman with no makeup. 

I didnt mind the episode, though I can appreciate why some found it boring. I generally dont come in with expectations about who and what they're gonna show.  I'll take each individual episode and go with it. 

I have a HARD time believing Toby couldn't perform after 9 months. Especially after working out and losing weight. Testosterone will increase, therefore libido will increase.  Unless he's been masturbating, he's ready to explode like Mount St Helen. Perform poorly (and quickly)?  Hell yeah!! Not perform at all? Like Chris Carter would say, "c'mon man"

I like Cassidy too.  It's nice having a female character, especially one who is a love interest, who has some experience and wear and tear, instead of being yet another in a long line of 30 something glammed up generic Hollywood Female Professionals.  And her background as a veteran seems refreshingly authentic (Jim LaPorta, the show's military advisor, is a USMC infantry veteran turned journalist covering defense/military issues).

While their hookup is probably a little ill-advised at this moment, given that both are in pretty unstable states and are also dealing with substance abuse issues, I can see them working out.  And it would be pretty refreshing to see an actress in her 40s play the role of a major love interest for what is basically the romantic lead of the show by default (since everyone else has been pretty monogamous throughout).

[Spencer Hastings 12,363]

I’ve been trying to figure out why I hate Cassidy.  I thought maybe it was the hard shell, no make up exterior and that I’d suddenly gone shallow or that I just hate military storylines.  

But nope, I just googled the actress and I’ve apparently hated her in every single thing I’ve seen her in.  I didn’t know she was the same person playing all of these characters but at least I’m consistent. Crisis averted. 

[ElectricBoogaloo 77,011]

5 hours ago, MissT said:

Did Nicky know Cassidy was in there? 

I think that depends on how loud Cassidy and Kevin are while having sex and how sound proof Kevin's trailer is!

But seriously, I'm assuming the answer is no because it would be super creepy of anyone, but especially a relative, to barge in and make a sandwich while you're having sex.

[debraran 9,606]

I felt this episode was a bit of a filler, nothing really happened you wouldn’t expect. I was disappointed how soon Cassidy and Kevin got together but after the over used gym scene , you could count the minutes.  Married, early in recovery and fragile. How many weeks before the husband and Kevin come to blows or argue? I like too that she’s not glamorous but that’s coming. it’s so tired and I hope This is Us has some twist coming. 
 

I might be in the minority but I hate all the flashbacks with Rebeccas dad and all that could have been one show. We know how it ends up . I found myself as another post said, surfing for a gift during those scenes. Maybe one more and we are done. 
I'm glad Toby is talking to Kate. I knew they’d have issues but having too much to on his mind was a bit lame. When I lost 50 pounds I had many people try to sabotage my healthier  eating and only my doctor and very immediate family gave support. It wasn’t fun if I didn’t eat all the same things I guess. Maybe there is a silent judgement that you should follow even if it’s not true. It’s not a club though and I’m glad Toby is taking care of his heart and health.

I liked Randall's last shot for his dad 🙂 

More Miguel and Rebecca and the children younger. Randall’s teacher comes next week. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by debraran

[Haleth 70,080]

I cracked up when Jack told young Randall that he'd listen more and lecture less... then he immediately began to lecture.

Mr Haleth called it right away that grown up Randall was faking being bad at golf.

I don't mind Cassidy, but I think their relationship is better as friends.  For now at least.  I like that she isn't impressed with him being a movie star, she brings out something more authentic in him.

Kate and Toby and their sex lives... boring.  Rebecca's dad being a jerk and Jack behaving badly... boring.

[nlkm9 6,391]

7 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I do wonder when they are going to start up the Rebecca and Miguel storyline. I doubt they could ever cut the cord with Jack though. He’s the heart & soul of the show. I guess they could still do both but it’s time to explain after Jack and how getting with Miguel came about. 

Anyone notice that Cassidy looked less wrinkly and more attractive? No deep headache furrows , stunning body after looking so ragged in so many episodes??

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I felt this episode was a bit of a filler, nothing really happened you wouldn’t expect. I was disappointed how soon Cassidy and Kevin got together but after the over used gym scene , you could count the minutes.  Married, early in recovery and fragile. How many weeks before the husband and Kevin come to blows or argue? I like too that she’s nog glamorous but that’s coming. it’s so tired and I hope This is Us has some twist coming. 
 

I might be in the minority but I hate all the flashbacks with Rebeccas dad and all that could have been one show. We know how it ends up . I found myself as another post said, surfing for a gift during those scenes. Maybe one more and we are done. 
I'm glad Toby is talking to Kate. I knew they’d have issues but having too much to on his mind was a bit lame. When I lost 50 pounds I had many people try to sabotage my healthier  eating and only my doctor and very immediate family gave support. It wasn’t fun if I didn’t eat all the same things I guess. Maybe there is a silent judgement that you should follow even if it’s not true. It’s not a club though snd I’m glad Toby is taking care of his heart and health.

I liked Randall's last shot for his dad 🙂 

More Miguel and Rebecca and the children younger. Randall’s teacher comes next week. 

Did that last shot go in the drink?

[ShadowFacts 13,680]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Predictable event #1: Kevin hooking up with Cassidy.

Predictable event #2: Of course Randall knows how to play golf, he held a senior-level job on Wall Street for many years.

I really resisted the show going in the route of Kevin + Cassidy, and so I was disappointed more than surprised I guess.  Him being entangled this way won't end well, but the two being solid friends (and Nicky) would have been more to my liking.

I knew Randall would have to know how to golf if he knew people who could get him a tee time (in a new city for him), but I thought he just plain sucked at golf, so they got me on that one.

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

But yeah, not feeling Cassidy/Kevin. I'm hoping that they already slept together because they're NOT ending up together. I think both of them need someone else. 

I don't see that they end together up long-term, there are too many problems with that.  However I am not sure that she doesn't end up being the mother of his son, there were a couple references in this episode pointing that way.  I think we'll get an answer to that question in this season, and she is the special guest star . . On the other hand, with him wanting to be a father as much as he apparently does, I don't rule out the possibility that he adopts as a single parent.  I would like that more than playing a guessing game as to who is the mom.

[ams1001 57,169]

44 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

Did that last shot go in the drink?

Yes, he did it on purpose, in honor of Jack.

[BonnieD 1,088]

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1. I loved the fact that Randall played down his golf skills and he was actually very good.

Loved it. I was prepared to be bored with yet more political outsider nonsense. I HATE political storylines in shows, particularly when the character shoves in being all bossy and opinionated and still comes out ahead (looking at Parenthood's lamentable foray into politics on the heels of the woman having fricking CANCER!) But anyway, I ended up loving how Randall played these guys and won them over. Very cool.

Honestly, this season is so much better than the last one for me. Less grandiose dramatic arcs and more personal stuff about average people getting along in life as best they can. That's where the show always shines IMO. Not in ridiculous entitlement and over the top grand gestures.

[PRgal 7,341]

Someone in Twitter brought you up:  Tiger Woods wasn’t pro in ‘92, so it wouldn’t make sense for Randall to be watching him in TV and pointing it out to Jack.  

[MissLucas 15,613]

I guess this was the show's take on a (reversed) Legend of Bagger Vance? It was okay but would have been better without all the drama of Jack and future father-in-law behaving like an ass once again. And yes, young Randall having another identity crisis is getting repetitive. Why not focus on the present and the various challenges his kids have to face right now? Or give us more flashbacks of younger Randall interacting with his siblings - those would be interesting too and I don't think we had too many of those.

Toby and Kate definitely need therapy because there's simply too much stuff going on impacting their marriage right now. They're both overwhelmed and although nobody is bringing it up at this point if things don't go better soon they can get worse when Toby's depression resurfaces. I'm also surprised it's never mentioned that one of the side-effects of regular workout is that it helps coping with depression. Another reason Kate should be happy he's going to the gym.

I'm pretty sure Nicky knew that Kevin was not alone - that's why he apologized for not agreeing to go for a walk. Kevin was edgy and needed some relief and despite recognizing the signs Nicky did nothing and things spiraled out of control. I'm not particularly enthused about Kevin and Cassidy doing the deed but it was predictable. But at least it wasn't played as romantic - they both know they screwed up badly. Even if they're made for each other (disputable) they're not made for each other right now.

PS: Kevin stop stalking your ex - watch cat videos instead.

[Lady Calypso 73,345]

58 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I really resisted the show going in the route of Kevin + Cassidy, and so I was disappointed more than surprised I guess.  Him being entangled this way won't end well, but the two being solid friends (and Nicky) would have been more to my liking.

I'm hoping that, with Kevin's earlier comment about how it's a bad idea to get into a relationship in your first year of recovery, that him hooking up with Cassidy is a forewarning that things won't go well with the two of them. Not that I want them to have a disastrous fight or anything, but I'd rather have them both realize that they need to be focusing on themselves and not on a relationship.

I was definitely hoping that Kevin and Cassidy wouldn't have hooked up and that Kevin would have continued to help Cassidy get back together with her husband, but I guess that wasn't meant to be. Because, yeah, this hookup did make me realize that I am solidly on the "Cassidy/Kevin as friends" train. I like their friendship, so I'm really hoping this hookup was a one time deal. Cassidy's life is a mess, and Kevin has only just started getting back on track. And we know that Kevin can't be in a relationship right now if he wants to maintain his sobriety. Similarly to Cassidy, who needs to figure out her stuff with her husband and her son, and she can't do that if she's in a relationship with Kevin.

[Good Queen Jane 6,293]

24 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Someone in Twitter brought you up:  Tiger Woods wasn’t pro in ‘92, so it wouldn’t make sense for Randall to be watching him in TV and pointing it out to Jack

Although Tiger wasn't a pro in 1992, he was already the youngest winner of the US Amateur and then won for a second time in 92. I remember he got a lot of TV time for that tournament. He also played in a PGA tour event as an amateur that year. 

[kili 10,922]

Randall is playing a bit of a dangerous game. If those councilmen ever find out that he was playing them by faking being bad at golf, that relationship is pretty much destroyed. 

Still, Randall usually attacks problems pretty directly, so him taking into account how the other councilmen needed to feel they could mentor him is a step forward. When he bought William's building and adopted Deja, he felt he could solve the issues that arose by working hard directly on the problem and overcoming it by Pearson monologging all over it. This time, he took the time to size up the problem and attacked it from the side. 

Kevin and Cassidy just needed a distraction and they ended up distracting each other. Nicky may not have known about what happened when he started making his sandwich, but he certainly did by the time he finished.

I kind of want to see  how Rebecca's dad interacts with Jack at those infamous Thanksgiving dinners. I'm beginning to think Jack sabotaged the car in Pilgrim Rick and I'm not blaming him if he did.

[Jax7917 16,456]

I think the casting from the younger to the older kids with Kate and Kevin are really good... but I just am not seeing it with Randall. I think it's mostly because younger and older Randall look nothing alike, but I also think it's because their mannerisms don't seem the same to me. Anyone else feel like the casting is eh with them?

[Ohiopirate02 51,113]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Predictable event #3: Tension between Kate and Toby due to his weight loss. I can't fault Kate too much for suggesting that Toby keep the pants. My weight has fluctuated within a 30-pound range at various points in my adult life, and I've kept both the bigger and the smaller clothes in a storage bin at the back of the closet. It's not an emotional thing for me at all, I just like to know that if my weight fluctuates again, I'll have something to wear without having to spend money.

I saw Kate being practical with Toby about the pants.  Kate has been gaining and losing weight for more than 20 years at this point and she knows how easy it is to gain it back.  Keeping some bigger clothes in the back of the closet is practical.  There is a very real possibility that Toby will gain at least some of the weight back and then he won't have any clothes that fit him.  Kate has probably done the whole throw out all her bigger clothes because she lost weight just to gain it all back again.  She is not wrong, but needed to go about this in another way.  She should have kept her mouth shut and taken the pants out of the Goodwill box before donating the rest.  Then keep the pants and a shirt or two hidden in the back of the closet.  But she is human, tired and stressed.  

I also think that Kate was channeling Rebecca with her comments about the pants and why Toby should keep them.  Kate is married with a baby and starting to become her mother.  

Edited October 30, 2019 by Ohiopirate02

[Blakeston 18,051]

I would love it if a TV show would actually acknowledge that a man doesn't need an erection to engage in sexual activity - and that he can use his other body parts to please his partner.

But no, television insists on perpetuating the idea that if a man can't get it up, that means he has to lie in bed staring at the ceiling awkwardly while making excuses.

[Ohiopirate02 51,113]

5 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I would love it if a TV show would actually acknowledge that a man doesn't need an erection to engage in sexual activity - and that he can use his other body parts to please his partner.

But no, television insists on perpetuating the idea that if a man can't get it up, that means he has to lie in bed staring at the ceiling awkwardly while making excuses.

Yes.  Especially after Kate asks Toby if it is because of her size.  As far as I could tell, Toby's hands and mouth were still working.  Toby always struck me as a guy who would care more for his partner's pleasure than his own.  

[AriAu 3,316]

Quote

Unless Kevin and Cassidy are real lousy in bed, I find it hard to believe that in that quiet little area that Nicky didn't know what was going on.  

Where was Cassidy's car parked? Wouldn't Uncle Nicky have a clue from that?

Don't like that they went there and it just demonstrates yet again, that Kevin has no self control and makes bad, bad decisions when it comes to women.

I am not surprised that Otter tried to give Jack a chance to meet his "standards" and I imagine that Rebecca was excited about that. Also not surprised that it didn't work out.

Quote

Although Tiger wasn't a pro in 1992, he was already the youngest winner of the US Amateur and then won for a second time in 92. I remember he got a lot of TV time for that tournament. He also played in a PGA tour event as an amateur that year. 

This show's time line is soooo all over the board that I didnt even think about what year it was and where Tiger fell into that. In fact, he had won the US JUNIOR Am (and a boat load of other junior tournaments by 1992, but didn't win the first of his 3 US Amateurs until 1994. He did play in the 1992 LA Open as his first pro tournament and Sports Illustrated had a great story about it, along with a picture of an incredibly young and skinny Tiger. https://www.si.com/vault/1992/03/09/126123/you-the-kid-tiger-woods-16-proved-he-could-make-the-grade-if-not-the-cut-in-his-pga-tour-debut. Yeah, I am a golf nerd....and know a little too much about El Tigre

Edited October 30, 2019 by AriAu

[Empress1 48,357]

11 hours ago, greekmom said:

I think that Toby actually does not find Kate attractive anymore. It's very hard when one person in a couple loses or gains weight. It's almost like a betrayal of sorts.

She seems to be taking his weight loss as such, kind of like "I thought we were in this together!" She feels like he's leaving her behind. But as he pointed out, he had a heart attack before 40. He SHOULD be getting healthy.

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

There is nothing to talk about.  He is losing weight because of his heart attack and he wants to be there for his kid when he gets older.

Does Kate want him to put all of the weight back on and die of a heart attack?

Kate needs to deal with her insecurities.  Toby can't do that for her.  It doesn't matter how supportive Toby maybe, if Kate can't find a way to feel confident about who she is.

I agree. She really has no leg to stand on to ask him to stop losing weight or working out. We all need some level of physical activity in our lives. The key to exercising regularly is to do something you actually enjoy, and if he likes Crossfit he should do Crossfit. (Some people really like the community aspect of it. I have a friend who's really into it; I tease him about the Crossfit cult.) If he gets to the point where he's going too far, that's one thing, but he's not there and that's not the same conversation. And he's not asking Kate to lose weight - if he were, she could tell him to back off. He's getting healthy for himself and his son. This is an objectively good thing.

25 minutes ago, AriAu said:

Don't like that they went there and it just demonstrates yet again, that Kevin has no self control and makes bad, bad decisions when it comes to women.

Reminds me of Kate's wedding when he and Randall met Madison and Randall said something like "She's a lot," and Kevin said "Yeah. Don't let me sleep with her."

"I don't see color" is the wrong approach to race (though it was the popular liberal way of thinking in the 90s; I've had it said to me many, many times), so I'm glad young Randall called it out.

Otherwise, yes, this episode was really boring. (The councilman will always be the dad from Moesha to me, though he had a small part on Good Girls last season too.)

[tennisgurl 107,959]

I keep waiting for Toby to bring up that getting in shape helps him with his depression or something like that, so that Kate can finally realize that this is a good thing for him and she needs to deal with her insecurities. I mean, yeah it’s complicated for Kate, who has always been so insecure about her weight, but Toby has a heart attack! He almost died! This is not a bad thing! Maybe focus on “I’m glad my husband is less likely to drop dead soon!” and maybe you’ll feel better!

[RedDelicious 23,727]

I wish they would just have the Kate character lose weight.  I think it would be inspiring for other people who need to do the same.  She's a beautiful girl and I love her style, but this ongoing story line of Toby losing and Kate staying the same hits a nerve with me.  It brings back unfortunate memories (hello bad relationships with sh*tty people who made me feel bad about myself and food made me feel better at the time thank God that's over).  Why can't we get a success story for Kate?

Not saying that this has anything to do with Toby's behavior towards Kate at all.  Just the concept of him succeeding and her not succeeding.  I would like to see Kate succeed.

[ams1001 57,169]

8 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

"I don't see color" is the wrong approach to race (though it was the popular liberal way of thinking in the 90s; I've had it said to me many, many times), so I'm glad young Randall called it out.

That kind of line always makes me think of Stephen Colbert (the Colbert Report character, not the real person): "I don't see race."

1 minute ago, icemiser69 said:

That is an awesome point.   Exercise really does help out with depression.  It isn't a cure all, but it really does help on many levels.  It helps the body and the mind.

I need to, like, tattoo this on the back of my hand or something. Might also help my shoulder which I tweaked for the nth time this past weekend (I hurt it several years ago and now it seems to be a weak spot).

[greekmom 51,709]

14 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

I wish they would just have the Kate character lose weight.  I think it would be inspiring for other people who need to do the same.  She's a beautiful girl and I love her style, but this ongoing story line of Toby losing and Kate staying the same hits a nerve with me.  It brings back unfortunate memories (hello bad relationships with sh*tty people who made me feel bad about myself and food made me feel better at the time thank God that's over).  Why can't we get a success story for Kate?

Not saying that this has anything to do with Toby's behavior towards Kate at all.  Just the concept of him succeeding and her not succeeding.  I would like to see Kate succeed.

Sadly, I think it's a bone of contention at this point for the actress.  I wish they would go down that road as well. 

[ShadowFacts 13,680]

14 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I keep waiting for Toby to bring up that getting in shape helps him with his depression or something like that, so that Kate can finally realize that this is a good thing for him and she needs to deal with her insecurities. I mean, yeah it’s complicated for Kate, who has always been so insecure about her weight, but Toby has a heart attack! He almost died! This is not a bad thing! Maybe focus on “I’m glad my husband is less likely to drop dead soon!” and maybe you’ll feel better!

His heart attack alone should have her much more on board with his weight loss.  Her own father died young of a widow-maker cardiac event, which should also figure into her own health decisions.  I don't care too much about their sex life, but she really needs to come to terms with why she has such a problem with his working to improve his health, and succeeding. 

[Empress1 48,357]

7 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

That is an awesome point.   Exercise really does help out with depression.  It isn't a cure all, but it really does help on many levels.  It helps the body and the mind.

Yes! Endorphins are real. In my bouts of depression, it can sometimes be hard to force myself to exercise but I do, because I know I always feel better when I do. Toby would still need to keep up his mental health regimen (I think he's on anti-depressants?), but the physical one is good for him too (and would be good for her - she should keep up her walks with Jack and her neighbor). Exercise is good for you. His cardiologist is probably thrilled.

1 minute ago, ShadowFacts said:

His heart attack alone should have her much more on board with his weight loss.  Her own father died young of a widow-maker cardiac event, which should also figure into her own health decisions.  I don't care too much about their sex life, but she really needs to come to terms with why she has such a problem with his working to improve his health, and succeeding. 

Exactly! She knows what it's like to lose her father in childhood and Toby is doing all he can to ensure that won't happen to baby Jack (inasmuch as he can - he's controlling what he can control). This is a good thing! Her issues with it are hers, not Toby's.

5 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

That kind of line always makes me think of Stephen Colbert (the Colbert Report character, not the real person): "I don't see race."

I always think of Tomi Lahren saying she didn't see color on The Daily Show and Trevor Noah saying "What do you do at stoplights?" I know what people mean when they say this, but it is really unhelpful.