S04.E06: The Club

[Blakeston]

As much as Kate annoys the crap out of me, and as much as I wish she could just be happy about Toby's weight loss, I feel the need to defend her a little.

I don't thinks she's trying to sabotage Toby, and I don't think she's under the impression that he lost weight to undermine her. I think it just makes her feel very self-conscious - and I would feel the same way, in her shoes. It has to be difficult to realize that your partner succeeded spectacularly at something you're failing at, and know that anyone can see it just by looking at you.

Also, I think asking him to keep his old pants can be very justifiable. It can be devastating for someone to lose weight, throw out their clothes, and then have to buy new clothes when they gain it back. If you regain the weight, it's probably easier to just pull your old clothes out of a drawer, rather than buying new ones (and a lot cheaper).

And in real life, the odds of Toby gaining a lot of the weight back would be pretty huge. If someone I knew lost that much weight that quickly, I wouldn't encourage them to give away all their big clothes.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I think Toby is a grown adult and can give away his pants if he wants to. Some people are more practical (like me) who would keep the pants in case and some people like to get rid of them because they see them as a crutch and they want to motivate themselves not to fall back into old patterns. Neither way is wrong, in my opinion. 

The way Kate and Toby went about starting up their sex life seemed cold to me. They just set up a sex room and were like let's go at it! I think it would have been better if they had tried a non-sex activity together and made an emotional connection first. It's probably been awhile since they really concentrated on themselves as a couple rather than focusing on Baby Jack and his needs. Then after they were able to re-connect, go for it if they were feeling it. I'm not judging any couple who would just go for it, I just think Kate and Toby aren't really on the same page in their marriage now and they need to work on that.

It would have been nice to have a platonic friendship between a man and a woman so of course TIU had to ruin that and have Kevin and Cassidy hook up. Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll go back to being friends and no one will be pregnant.

Ugh, the stuff with Jack and Rebecca's father was so cliche. "You'll never be good enough for my daughter!" "I'm going to marry your daughter." Also, the way it's all behind Rebecca's back like it's just her father and her boyfriend's decision who she's going to marry. I'm tired of it.

[ShadowFacts]

6 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Also, I think asking him to keep his old pants can be very justifiable. It can be devastating for someone to lose weight, throw out their clothes, and then have to buy new clothes when they gain it back. If you regain the weight, it's probably easier to just pull your old clothes out of a drawer, rather than buying new ones (and a lot cheaper).

Very justifiable in a practical sense, but I don't think that was her motivation.  At least the way it came across to me, when she said it, it seemed very much like she was conveying that she thought he would regain the weight and that alone is not the message I'd want to be sending.  She tried to insert herself into what he kept or gave away before, with his Star Wars figurines, with a poor outcome.  Maybe a little control issue.

[Blakeston]

13 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Very justifiable in a practical sense, but I don't think that was her motivation.  At least the way it came across to me, when she said it, it seemed very much like she was conveying that she thought he would regain the weight and that alone is not the message I'd want to be sending.  She tried to insert herself into what he kept or gave away before, with his Star Wars figurines, with a poor outcome.  Maybe a little control issue.

The way she barked at him not to throw it out definitely wasn't good.

But if she's concerned he might not keep it off, I would be too, honestly.

That said...if she ever lost weight, and he suggested she keep her old clothes, she'd probably set herself on fire.

[Jillybean]

I can't believe I forgot Toby used to have that sad little patch of hair in the front in S1! Especially since it was a topic of so many posts here. 😂

For me, Kate and Toby's sex plotline was icky. I've been trying to figure out why I feel that way, and i think it mostly comes down to the writing, especially the lines for Toby, particularly in the scenes back at their house after their failed attempt at hotel sex. I tried to imagine a standard attractive TV couple saying all the same lines, and I didn't find it any less squicky.

I have a hard time buying that Toby couldn't get it up because of the pants incident. Also, that Toby actually has a favorite pair of pants.

I never had kids, but from everything I've heard about life as a new parent, it seems more realistic for parents of a newborn who score a sitter for the night and can swan off to a hotel room to spend the night sleeping. Especially since they both said they'd only had 2 hours of sleep. 

Anyway, I'd be more interested in a storyline about how mundane Kate finds it to spend every day at home alone with baby Jack, and maybe have her find something she is interested in doing other than Adele-o-grams. I thought we might see more of the burgeoning friendship with the cranky neighbor, since I think those two make a better match than Kate and Toby.

Toby must be doing very well to be able to support the entire family, buy a house, and afford swanky hotel rooms...all in LA.

Kevin and Cassidy hooking up is not surprising. As far as we've been shown, he has never had a female friend. 

Randall's "this one's for you, Pop" scene was lovely and perfectly lit. I don't think he called him Pop as a kid, though. I remember him calling him "Dad."

Edited October 30, 2019 by Jillybean

[Cementhead]

3 hours ago, BonnieD said:

Honestly, this season is so much better than the last one for me. Less grandiose dramatic arcs and more personal stuff about average people getting along in life as best they can. That's where the show always shines IMO. Not in ridiculous entitlement and over the top grand gestures.

So very well said!  You just described for me why I ended up hating last season so much so that I stopped watching and why I am back to enjoying it so much again this season. 

5 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Randall's "this one's for you, Pop" scene was lovely and perfectly lit.

Best part of the episode.  I really appreciated getting to watch so much of Sterling K. Brown do his thing in this episode, minus the wife & kids and other usual suspects.  He is just so dynamic and captivating to watch.

[ams1001]

6 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I never had kids, but from everything I've heard about life as a new parent, it seems more realistic for parents of a newborn who score a sitter for the night and can swan off to a hotel room to spend the night sleeping. Especially since they both said they'd only had 2 hours of sleep. 

I can't remember what it's for, but there is a commercial with that premise. The parents are all excited the kids will be out of the house, and then they're shown taking a nap.

6 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Randall's "this one's for you, Pop" scene was lovely and perfectly lit. I don't think he called him Pop as a kid, though. I remember him calling him "Dad."

I liked that scene; I laughed when I realized what was happening.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

I wish they would just have the Kate character lose weight. 

I don't think they realistically can unless Chrissy Metz loses weight. And weight loss can be enough of a struggle that I don't think it's a good idea for them to write an arc with her losing weight even if Chrissy loses/commits to them that she's going to lose.

I read that her contract initially said she would lose weight and that was going to be a large part of her plotline, but then when she didn't or couldn't and the show had really taken off, there was no way to really replace her or write around it.

[Jax7917]

I'm still thinking Zoe will come into the picture again, but who knows. I think she'll come around to having kids.  I think they're just keeping her away for now because there's still 2 seasons left and they need Kevin to be involved with other things/people.. but I feel like she'll be back.

[S.Batts]

I didn't find the episode boring at all, maybe I"m the only one?  I loved it.   Cried at the end with adult Randall driving the ball into the little pond.   Had me tearing up in seconds.   

Kate is jealous that Toby lost all of that weight and she cannot lose any.   It's an honest response to a loved one whom you shared something in common with.  First they were both over weight, now she is and he isn't.   Of course she will feel hurt by it, while she may be happy for him health wise, but inside she's thinking...why not me?   I would love to see the actress lose some of her weight, but not sure that will happen.  

I never want to see Milo/Jack leave the show.   He is one of the reasons why I watch this show.  Keep the flashbacks coming, I'm enjoying them.   

Is Rebecca an only child?  I was thinking she had a sister.   If so, have we met her yet?

I love the Kevin/Nicky scenes.   Nicky is the only connection that Kevin has to get as close to his dad as possible.  I love that he wants help his uncle out and take care of him as much as Nicky lets him.   Kevin and Cassidy, I'm not feeling them.

[Mars477]

20 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I'm still thinking Zoe will come into the picture again, but who knows. I think she'll come around to having kids.  I think they're just keeping her away for now because there's still 2 seasons left and they need Kevin to be involved with other things/people.. but I feel like she'll be back.

This would be pretty shitty on the part of the show.  Mass Media being culturally conservative, women are kind of expected to want kids, so Zoe being a child free woman who actually is portrayed fairly and isn’t treated as “Oh, you’ll change your mind” for a relationship or her ticking biological clock is actually kind of groundbreaking.  Normally if you’re a woman in media and you don’t want kids you’re either a hardcore tomboy or otherwise out of the norm and aberrant.   I figured her inclusion in this episode, besides serving to fuel Kevin’s midlife crisis, was to provide a sense of closure for that relationship and seal off any possibility of it coming back.

[Jillybean]

43 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I'm still thinking Zoe will come into the picture again, but who knows. I think she'll come around to having kids. 

Oooh, I hope not. It is perfectly realistic for a woman not to want children and to be unwavering in that decision. To have Zoe change her mind, when she was so very certain, for a mere plot contrivance would be so very disappointing -- and will do a disservice to all the women who really do not want children and get tired of hearing "You'll change your mind."

ETA: Or, what Mars477 said. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Jillybean

[PRgal]

4 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Although Tiger wasn't a pro in 1992, he was already the youngest winner of the US Amateur and then won for a second time in 92. I remember he got a lot of TV time for that tournament. He also played in a PGA tour event as an amateur that year. 

Thanks.  I'm not a follower of golf - much to my dad's dismay.  And it should have said "somebody on Twitter brought THIS up," not "YOU."  LOL 

[Lisa418722]

Sometimes, especially lately, it feels like Randall is not a Pearson (OK, I know he is). Yeah, he was talking to Kate and had the piano delivered to her (along with Kevin).  I know we have quite a few scenes of kid Randall(s) with Jack, but not as much with grown up Randall remembering him. But the last scene when Randall said "this one's for you, Pop" just made me grin and helped me remember why I liked this show in the beginning.  I just hope they bring the family together for Thanksgiving. I need to see the Big Three together again. 

[ams1001]

45 minutes ago, S.Batts said:

I didn't find the episode boring at all, maybe I"m the only one?  I loved it.   Cried at the end with adult Randall driving the ball into the little pond.   Had me tearing up in seconds.   

I didn't cry or anything (with a few exceptions, this shows insistence that it will make me cry has been unsuccessful), but I did think, when he said 'this one's for you,' "he's gonna hit it into the water."

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, AriAu said:

I am not surprised that Otter tried to give Jack a chance to meet his "standards" and I imagine that Rebecca was excited about that. Also not surprised that it didn't work out.

I think Rebecca was just excited because she wanted her father and Jack to get along, not because she wanted Jack to change who he was. Early-70s Rebecca was a wannabe free spirit, she didn't seem to care about status at all (we know that she bailed in the middle of a date with a well-established man to go sing at an open mic, that's how she met Jack). Her father was just deliberately ignoring the reality and choosing to focus on his idealized country club image of her. 

1 hour ago, Sarah Heart said:

One thing I really like about her, she isn't the warm OTT gushy type around Kevin. His usual types imho, are vapid and often with him,  for the wrong reasons.

His three serious relationships on the show so far have been with Sophie, Zoe, and Olivia, none of whom are vapid. Sophie was into him because they'd been childhood sweethearts, but both Olivia and Zoe were standoffish when they first met him. My impression is that Kevin likes "bristly" women, hence his attraction to Cassidy.

[drafan]

15 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Finally, the woman Kevin was bringing back to his camper played Cassidy on The Middle (and also had a role on The Kids are Alright as the oldest brother's supposedly much older girlfriend), so that's 2 Cassidy's!

Yeah, that was confusing. The red-headed Cassidy on The Middle was extremely annoying, so I hated her in this. Also: on The Middle she looked like a teen pre-lip-plumped-and-botoxed Taylor Swift. Girlfriend has not aged well.

[chocolatine]

Just now, Sarah Heart said:

The red head he was headed to bed with, seemed vapid to me.

Yes, and he dropped her like a hot potato when he saw that Cassidy was waiting for him at the trailer.

[NUguy514]

If Kevin fucked Cassidy and I couldn't see it because I screamed like a banshee and plucked out my own eyeballs when he kissed her, did it really happen?

Oh, and, as always, shut up, Kate.

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

It would have been nice to have a platonic friendship between a man and a woman so of course TIU had to ruin that and have Kevin and Cassidy hook up. Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll go back to being friends and no one will be pregnant.

Ugh, the stuff with Jack and Rebecca's father was so cliche. "You'll never be good enough for my daughter!" "I'm going to marry your daughter." Also, the way it's all behind Rebecca's back like it's just her father and her boyfriend's decision who she's going to marry. I'm tired of it.

I would have preferred platonic for a change, but I don't think we'll be lucky enough to have them go back to friendship.  I think this has the potential for seriously bad consequences - they didn't show us her husband warning Kevin away for nothing.  It could blow way up.

And, yes the club scenes with Mr. Malone made me want to have a gin and tonic myself.  Jack getting falling-down-drunk would have had me seeing a little tiny red flag if I had been Rebecca. 

[mojoween]

For allegedly being Toby’s FAVORITE pair of pants, they looked like boring old suit pants.  Dime a dozen!

[Mldh598]

16 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Finally, the woman Kevin was bringing back to his camper played Cassidy on The Middle (and also had a role on The Kids are Alright as the oldest brother's supposedly much older girlfriend), so that's 2 Cassidy's!

That WAS her! I thought it was, but couldn't be sure. Thank you for confirming. 😃

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Because she thinks she is going to be left behind without him.  That he is going to leave her.  She doesn't want him to change, because in her mind she can't change.

There is no question that Toby is going to get hit on at some point.   If Kate finds out about it, I don't think she will handle it well at all.

Wasn't Toby's first wife slim, and Kate felt threatened by her? 

I went to an Ivy and I had some friends there who were the first in their families to go to college. Some of them expressed that they felt like their families weren't happy for them or in their corner in the way they'd like because the families felt threatened that the student would outgrow them. That's what I think of when I think of Kate's response to Toby's getting healthy. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Empress1

[Aloeonatable]

2 hours ago, S.Batts said:

never want to see Milo/Jack leave the show.   He is one of the reasons why I watch this show.  Keep the flashbacks coming, I'm enjoying them. 

Me either. Everything his character does has a direct impact on his family in the future and I really think the show uses this device very well. In fact, that is the whole theme of the show: how the life and loss of this family's patriarch colors their lives.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Aloeonatable

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I think Toby is a grown adult and can give away his pants if he wants to. Some people are more practical (like me) who would keep the pants in case and some people like to get rid of them because they see them as a crutch and they want to motivate themselves not to fall back into old patterns. Neither way is wrong, in my opinion. 

Thank you!  What offends me most about scenes like that is not whether or not she thinks he'll regain the weight, (he probably will,97% do) but that she's being bossy about something that doesn't really concern her.  Couples on TV are way  too much in each other's business for me.  

2 hours ago, S.Batts said:

I didn't find the episode boring at all, maybe I"m the only one?  I loved it.   Cried at the end with adult Randall driving the ball into the little pond.   Had me tearing up in seconds.   

Me too.  I hold my breath when the show gets into race and I cringe with second hand embarrassment when the white people get it all wrong, but at least their hearts are in the right place and they keep learning and trying.  Randall's just the sweetest character, I never get mad at him. 

Unpopular opinion, I've always liked Toby, too, and I even like all his corny jokes.

Remember last season when you all had to educate me all about phone chargers and WiFi and such?  Nicky is my person!

[OhSarah69]

There is plenty to talk about.  Kate and Toby absolutely DO need to talk about his new, healthier lifestyle.  He doesn't need to stop going to the gym or apologize for it, and he can still throw out his old pants if he wants.  But Kate and Toby are not just chums or neighbours - they are life partners, and they owe each other some honesty, even if it's painful.  What's the point of marriage, otherwise?

Toby's journey into (presumably) better health is his own, in the sense that as adults, we all have and can exercise choices.  But you can't blame Kate for wondering, after she's been in this baby haze for the past several months, and is stressing and over-eating herself, "Who is this new Toby, and where did he come from?".  As someone pointed out above, Kate and Toby only ever met because they both went to an OA meeting.  So something that they've always had in common (being overweight), while not the sole defining element in their relationship, has now changed significantly - and you don't think they need to talk about it?  Gosh, I sure do.  And I'm quite sure that Kate is not the only partner to ever wonder, when the other partner isn't able to, ahem, rise to the occasion, whether it has anything to do with her (if he wasn't turned on by her, maybe even his hands or mouth might not be interested).  I don't think anyone is confident in that department 100% of the time, at the best of times.  I can't blame her for asking that question of Toby ("are you still attracted to me?"), and it was kinda ballsy (pardon the pun) of her to do so while still in the sack...she could have kept her thoughts to herself and let them fester, which would have been worse.  I wouldn't want to apply a special standard to how Kate's allowed to express herself or her uncertainty.

You know, Kate the character is fair game, I suppose, in that she's fictional.  But sometimes I am uncomfortable hearing about how she (Kate, purportedly), should go on a diet and lose weight, etc., things that are really, in my opinion anyway, referring to Chrissy (I don't mean to point fingers, it's just how I perceive it).  Ain't nobody on that journey except Chrissy, and it's her deal.  Maybe it would lift her (Kate's/Chrissy's) depression and maybe it would give her (Kate/Chrissy) endorphins - but maybe not.  It rings hollow to me (not because exercise isn't good - but it's kind of like when someone says "you have such a pretty face, now if you would just lose some weight".  You wanna say F-you).  Possibly I am projecting here.

And remember, even if we are supposedly talking about Kate and not Chrissy, we don't know yet how Kate got there (it's one thing to be chubby all your life, another for it to evolve into morbid obesity).

So in summary:  Toby can, should and now finally has talked to Kate about his intention to be healthier (but he needs to tell her why - whether it's to avoid another heart attack, to ward off depressive feelings, to be there for baby Jack, to be able to squeeze into sexy jeans, or to just feel better, or whatever); and Kate has now started to and should continue to tell Toby she loves him and is proud of him, without feeling that she is somehow less than, or that she has to change who she is to be with him.  Toby should be able to acknowledge that he is excited to work out and to explore the changes this brings in his life, and Kate should be open to accepting that...and you never know, it's possible that Toby's healthier habits can benefit Kate too.  But that needs to be a natural evolution - it's not going to happen all in one episode.

Aaaaahhhhh....sharing/venting in the Primetimer Forums.  Better than therapy!

[Mars477]

Honestly the show desperately needs to give Kate a storyline that isn’t about her weight or her motherhood, both of which are interrelated.  The other Pearson siblings are given the opportunity to have careers and interests that have nothing to do with their gender, not to mention more character depth and complexity.  Kate, though, is 1) a wife and mother, and 2) morbidly obese, and that’s about all there is to her.

At the very least the writers are aware enough to know that Kate trying to sabotage Toby’s healthy life choices is a bad thing and something to apologize for, but all the same they should understand that “Kate does awful thing out of resentment for her husband’s healthy lifestyle, then realizes she’s being a dick and apologizes” doesn’t make her look terribly sympathetic.

[twoods]

Cassidy and Kevin made me queasy. Why did you have to go there show? So clique and predictable.

I absolutely loved Jack and Randall together. I ffed through Jack and Rebecca’s asshole father scenes. We know they get married and all that- I don’t need to see it. I would much rather see Jack hang out with his kids- those scenes are always fantastic.

[SunnyBeBe]

I hate contrived storylines.  Rebecca certainly knew how her dad was. So, why insist your boyfriend spent extra time with him? And, Jack has been told by her dad the way he feels. He knows what must be coming.  So silly.  Plus, until this season, I never got the impression that Rebecca was from that socio-economic group.  In season one she seemed to be from working class.  Recall the year she was to bring a jello salad for Thanksgiving?  Somehow that doesn't jell with the lobster/country club background, imo.  And didn't her parents give the kids modest gifts or Christmas?  I really do not care to see anymore of Kate, Jack or Beth's parents again. 

Nicky must live in a very convenient location that just looks like it's in the middle of no where! lol  How did Cassidy get to Kevin's? No car around.......................She is just one of those people who screams annoying. He must have that rescue me please complex.  I can't imagine why he's attracted to her, but, whatever...... 

I do not buy that Toby is still into Kate, other than friend and mother of his child.  Not likely about the sex, but, just they aren't compatible anymore.  I will be shocked if he takes off with some hot, young babe from the gym.  lol 

[nlkm9]

5 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I

Kevin and Cassidy hooking up is not surprising. As far as we've been shown, he has never had a female friend. 

I guess I am the only viewer who noticed the "glammed up Cassidy last nite?? her forehead wrinkles were much less pronounced and her body looked amazing. she looked like a ragamuffin the first epsoide? Im not sure why this bugged me last nite, maybe that the orinial cassidy was not pretty enough for him??

[Mars477]

11 minutes ago, twoods said:

Cassidy and Kevin made me queasy. Why did you have to go there show? So clique and predictable.

I absolutely loved Jack and Randall together. I ffed through Jack and Rebecca’s asshole father scenes. We know they get married and all that- I don’t need to see it. I would much rather see Jack hang out with his kids- those scenes are always fantastic.

What exactly makes Cassidy and Kevin more “predictable” than any iteration of “Show heartthrob gets with sexy Hollywood professional woman a decade his younger”?

[nlkm9]

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I do not buy that Toby is still into Kate, other than friend and mother of his child.  Not likely about the sex, but, just they aren't compatible anymore.  I will be shocked if he takes off with some hot, young babe from the gym.  lol 

remember how gorgeous and thin his first wife was??

[SunnyBeBe]

Just now, nlkm9 said:

remember how gorgeous and thin his first wife was??

Right, but, he didn't seem to be that impressed with her.  Still, it was his type one time. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Aloeonatable said:

Me either. Everything his character does has a direct impact on his family in the future and I really think the show uses this device very well. In fact, that is the whole theme of the show: how the life and loss of this family's patriarch colors the lives their lives.

I think Jack is the heart of the show in the past, and Randall is in the present.  In this episode I think it was structured well to show that Jack never gave up as far as Randall's well-being.  He didn't get everything right about Randall's straddling two worlds, but when things were brought to his consciousness, he acted.  He took him golfing, he went and talked again with the teacher, going the extra mile to invite him and his wife to dinner.  That all translated nicely into Randall taking his father's lesson and using it to get in the game with the Philadelphia councilmen, so to speak.  Much like Jack, he may not always get what's in his daughters' psyches, but he never stops wanting and trying to understand and help. 

[Empress1]

39 minutes ago, Mars477 said:

What exactly makes Cassidy and Kevin more “predictable” than any iteration of “Show heartthrob gets with sexy Hollywood professional woman a decade his younger”?

I think it's just the idea that every woman in Kevin's orbit ends up a love interest eventually. Which ... I mean, I get it, he fine. But it IS possible for men and women to just be friends, and Kevin makes shitty romantic choices (I think Zoe was good for him but if they're on different sides of the kid thing, they need to be apart), so it would be refreshing if he met a woman he liked platonically and things stayed platonic. Especially since Cassidy and her husband are still trying to work things out.

56 minutes ago, Mars477 said:

 Kate, though, is 1) a wife and mother, and 2) morbidly obese, and that’s about all there is to her.

The singing has fallen by the wayside, which is actually OK by me because the idea that Kate could make it as a professional singer is really far-fetched, but yeah, they need to give her something to do.

And wasn't she in school? She wanted to get a degree so she could teach music; what happened to that?

Edited October 30, 2019 by Empress1

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Rebecca certainly knew how her dad was. So, why insist your boyfriend spent extra time with him? And, Jack has been told by her dad the way he feels. He knows what must be coming.  So silly.  Plus, until this season, I never got the impression that Rebecca was from that socio-economic group. 

They seem to be painting Rebecca as the kind of Daddy's girl who has no sense of who the man is, with other people. Or her father as an otherwise decent man who makes a fetish of his daughter, who can't see his possessiveness for what it is. Maybe more the latter, to compare and contrast with Jack and Randall as fathers of girls.

In any event, she has no idea that her father was not impressed with Jack's performance at their first meeting. She was beaming as the two men parted, steely-eyed, and Jack being Jack wasn't going to say a word about it. This sit-commish obliviousness on her part is supposed to be something it's not to me. But no, she doesn't have a clue.

By the time the Big 3 were 9, Rebecca's widowed mother lived in Greenwich, the much more august Alpine of Connecticut. She and her father may have moved there when he accepted a late-career opportunity in NYC or Stamford (where several large firms had moved their HQ's by then). Or, the Malones snuck out of Pittsburgh in the dark of night after their daughter got married to a hard hat at City Hall. 

[ShadowFacts]

10 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

And wasn't she in school? She wanted to get a degree so she could teach music; what happened to that?

She graduated, I think she went into labor at the party they were having for her. 

[izabella]

5 hours ago, Jillybean said:

Randall's "this one's for you, Pop" scene was lovely and perfectly lit.

That was moving, and the best part of the episode for me.  It made up for all the golfing, which I think is so boring. 

Kate and Toby having issues right now seems perfectly legit.  I would be surprised if they weren't having some issues, both with communication and managing their fears.  I don't blame either of them for their feelings.

It is really disappointing to me, though, that we get endless episodes of  young/tween/teen Randall, and young/tween/teen Kate, but not so much of Kevin young, tween or teen.  We have so many episodes of Randall/Jack and Randall/Rebecca, or Kate/Jack and Kate/Rebecca, but it's hard for me to recall an episode where it was mostly about Kevin/Jack or Kevin/Rebecca.  Has there ever been a younger Kevin/Rebecca episode, ever?  Kevin usually just gets lumped into the younger family episodes, or is seen as a foil to young Randall.  He gets no individual parent time.

[Mars477]

11 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I think it's just the idea that every woman in Kevin's orbit ends up a love interest eventually. Which ... I mean, I get it, he fine. But it IS possible for men and women to just be friends, and Kevin makes shitty romantic choices (I think Zoe was good for him but if they're on different sides of the kid thing, they need to be apart), so it would be refreshing if he met a woman he liked platonically and things stayed platonic. Especially since Cassidy and her husband are still trying to work things out.

Are they though?  Because by the time you've moved out of the house and are splitting custody of your child from weekend to weekend it seems a little too late for that.  Plus there's the whole thing where Ryan seems to resent a thing that was a huge part of Cassidy's life (her military service).  Sure, they were high school sweethearts, but there's a reason why most marriages between high school sweethearts fail.  People change and become more than the person they were in high school.

[kili]

Quote

It is really disappointing to me, though, that we get endless episodes of  young/tween/teen Randall, and young/tween/teen Kate, but not so much of Kevin young, tween or teen.  We have so many episodes of Randall/Jack and Randall/Rebecca, or Kate/Jack and Kate/Rebecca, but it's hard for me to recall an episode where it was mostly about Kevin/Jack or Kevin/Rebecca. 

You're so busy making sure that Kate's not eating too much and Randall's not too adopted, and meanwhile where's Kevin? Oh. Guess what? He's dead!

Quote

Has there ever been a younger Kevin/Rebecca episode, ever? 

There was the time that Rebecca took young Kevin to the baseball card signing.

Jack supposedly spent a lot of time filming Kevin at games because we see Kevin watching some video of that afterwards. There was also the episode where Kevin is sick (chicken pox) and Jack has him go shovel the snow because Pearson men man up and don't let sickness get them down (the other two kids stay inside, so that is a bonding moment for just Kevin and Jack). Kevin also claimed that Jack built airplanes with him, but in that episode, Jack never helped Kevin once.  Jack and Rebecca do spend some one-on-one time with him to tell him he is bad and needs to do better.

I wonder how many hours Randall and Jack spent on the links (not a cheap hobby).

[sadie]

Maybe I’m shallow (okay I know I am) but if I saw Kevin in that tight tank top in the gym I’d sleep with him too. You go Cassidy girl, no way I’d pass that up. 
 

Kate, get over it. Your husband got in shape, how about being happy for him rather than making it about you. And don’t throw food at me but Kate’s ever growing weight is distracting to me. To hear here in her original contract she agreed to lose weight and then balked out on it makes me like her even less (not because she’s heavy but because I believe in not promising things I know I won’t ever do, it’s shady). 
 

I did not see the Randall fake out happening. Well done Kevin, well done! 
 

And I agree I am liking the show much more than last season when I almost gave up. I want these stories about the 3 and the less of Jack the better the show. A little Jack goes a long way.

[JudyObscure]

I hope they aren't going to write it that Toby has lost interest in Kate because his body has changed.  I can see maybe if he was initially attracted to her because he really liked big women how if she got skinny she just wouldn't be his type anymore, but as it is now she still looks like the girl he  fell in love with and married.  When Kate  saw his skinny first wife she asked him about it and he said something like when he was young he had thought that was the type he was supposed to like.

I don't think Kate needs anything else to do right now either.  As it is, she has a new baby with special needs and it's wearing her out.  

Edited October 30, 2019 by JudyObscure

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, sadie said:

And don’t throw food at me but Kate’s ever growing weight is distracting to me. To hear here in her original contract she agreed to lose weight and then balked out on it makes me like her even less (not because she’s heavy but because I believe in not promising things I know I won’t ever do, it’s shady). 

Chrissy has mentioned in several interviews that she only had a few hundred dollars in her checking account when she booked her role, so I can absolutely believe that she said yes to whatever NBC demanded because she couldn't afford to miss out on such a rare opportunity. I probably would have too if I had been in her place. Who knows, maybe she genuinely wanted (and still wants) to lose weight, but has a health condition (such as PCOS) that makes it very difficult?

Either way, I don't think a weight loss contract is enforceable in California.

Edited October 31, 2019 by chocolatine

[c0urtmarie91]

3 hours ago, izabella said:

That was moving, and the best part of the episode for me.  It made up for all the golfing, which I think is so boring. 

Kate and Toby having issues right now seems perfectly legit.  I would be surprised if they weren't having some issues, both with communication and managing their fears.  I don't blame either of them for their feelings.

It is really disappointing to me, though, that we get endless episodes of  young/tween/teen Randall, and young/tween/teen Kate, but not so much of Kevin young, tween or teen.  We have so many episodes of Randall/Jack and Randall/Rebecca, or Kate/Jack and Kate/Rebecca, but it's hard for me to recall an episode where it was mostly about Kevin/Jack or Kevin/Rebecca.  Has there ever been a younger Kevin/Rebecca episode, ever?  Kevin usually just gets lumped into the younger family episodes, or is seen as a foil to young Randall.  He gets no individual parent time.

Didn't they mention in the second season, why Kevin was the forgotten child? When the family went to see his therapist in rehab? Over the course of the show he's had some bonding time with Jack and Rebecca. But it's been established that growing up Kevin wasn't given enough attention from his parents. 

[Quickbeam]

I’m glad the actor playing Toby doesn’t have to wear the fat suit anymore. That has to be dreadful. I like the Kevin story line a lot but was not hoping for anything with Cassidy. I hate golf so zoned that out.

[Blackie]

2 hours ago, sadie said:

Maybe I’m shallow (okay I know I am) but if I saw Kevin in that tight tank top in the gym I’d sleep with him too. You go Cassidy girl, no way I’d pass that up. 
 

I'm with you! 

2 hours ago, sadie said:

I did not see the Randall fake out happening. Well done Kevin, well done!

well done Randall (?)  Golf takes a lot of practice, time and money and it  was never brought up before that Randall golfed when he was young or as an adult so it just seemed kind of plot point that he was actually a good golfer but was playing down.

[PRgal]

3 minutes ago, Blackie said:

I'm with you! 

well done Randall (?)  Golf takes a lot of practice, time and money and it  was never brought up before that Randall golfed when he was young or as an adult so it just seemed kind of plot point that he was actually a good golfer but was playing down.

I guess many people assumed Randall golfed because he worked in finance until he was 37 or so.  

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, izabella said:

Has there ever been a younger Kevin/Rebecca episode, ever? 

The episode where Kevin was at football camp before coming to the cabin. He felt estranged, took it out on Randall and got Jacked. During a storm, he finally followed his siblings into their parents' room, where all four were in the bed. He fell asleep on the floor and later that night, Rebecca got up and lay down near him, as he slept. 

[twoods]

5 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I think it's just the idea that every woman in Kevin's orbit ends up a love interest eventually. Which ... I mean, I get it, he fine. But it IS possible for men and women to just be friends, and Kevin makes shitty romantic choices (I think Zoe was good for him but if they're on different sides of the kid thing, they need to be apart), so it would be refreshing if he met a woman he liked platonically and things stayed platonic. Especially since Cassidy and her husband are still trying to work things out.

The singing has fallen by the wayside, which is actually OK by me because the idea that Kate could make it as a professional singer is really far-fetched, but yeah, they need to give her something to do.

And wasn't she in school? She wanted to get a degree so she could teach music; what happened to that?

Yes, thank you. That is exactly what I meant- new woman enters Kevin’s life and within a few episodes he is sleeping with her while she’s still married with a kid (and likely still going through PTSD). It makes sense because like others said, it doesn’t seem as if Kevin has platonic female friends, but I wish they just stayed friends for a little while longer before the likely pregnancy drama begins.

[NUguy514]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 In season one she seemed to be from working class.  Recall the year she was to bring a jello salad for Thanksgiving?  Somehow that doesn't jell with the lobster/country club background, imo.  And didn't her parents give the kids modest gifts or Christmas?

A jello salad gels exactly with a lobster/country club background.  I've been to plenty of brunches and dinners at country clubs (I come from a WASP-y background), and there have been jello salads at each and every one.  The food at those clubs is blander than bland.