S15.E10: Week 10

[Lsk02]

It is very interesting reading the different opinions on what happened tonight. 

 I’m seeing both sides. Luke’s morals are fine, and it was right for him to tell her how he feels about sex. As usual, his wording and approach were not good, and he just kept on talking, not reading the anger that was starting to come off her in waves. 

When she finally responded, saying their beliefs are different, that really should have been the end of it. I felt like she attempted to do that. Him saying he couldn’t be with her if she had sex with any of the other guys should have made the decision for both of them. But then he tried to backpedal with the “slip up” talk and got her even more angry. 

And then she told him to leave and he just sat there refusing to get up. And then, the final dagger, his “you owe me...”  That is a typical line used by controlling people. I think that was it for Hannah. She said “walk with me” after that. Also after asking him to please get up 3 other times.

His behavior at the end was frightening. He had lost all control of her and he was visibly shaking with rage in the van. So while I do think he has every right to not want his girlfriend sleeping with other people, when Hannah said, “my husband will not talk to me like that,” I think she meant the “you owe me” and “slip ups” and other manipulative, controlling things he said.  And if he meant what he said about not wanting to be with her if she had sex with the others, then he should have just walked right out. But to him I think it was more about control and really had nothing to do with sex. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Lsk02

[Stats Queen]

1 hour ago, CindyBee said:

Gah, did you see him clinching his fist!?    That was scary

Yes it was. Reminded me of my ex-husband although that happens every time Luke is on my TV screen. What an emotionally abusing control freak he is showing himself to be. Thank goodness she dumped him before it went any farther!

Like Luke, my ex was a man whore before I met him in a church young adult group. Luckily, I got out of that alive.

My now wonderful husband and I have been married for 24 years. He’s Jewish and Jesus still loves me 😻

[thehepburn]

14 minutes ago, Refresh said:

West coaster here so I’m chiming in a little late. I used to read myths for fun....Hannah, Aphrodite was Zeus’ daughter and I don’t know if any stories where they did it. But she likes to make stuff up. 

I would def not turn down a Tyler massage. Nope. 

I know Greek mythology too and that line did give me pause for a sec but I believe the more common origin that Aphrodite was born from the foam off the coast of Cynthera.

It's commonly known that Aphrodite was married to Hephastus, which would mean that they were committing incest if she is indeed Zeus's daughter.

[bobbyjoe]

Luke is full of shit.  He waits until the Fantasy Suite episode to make a big deal about saving yourself until marriage?  On this show?  Yeah, sure, Mr. Purity Traditional Christian Guy just, what, accidentally(?!) stumbled onto a show about a woman simultaneously dating multiple men, where anybody who even familarized themselves even to the slightest degree with the show would know that the routine placement and sexual conotation of the Fantasy Suite episode is as core a part of this series as, say, the Showcase Showdown on The Price Is Right?

Ummmm huh.

Quote

Maybe it's just me, but I still have a nagging suspicion that Luke is gay.  There are a lot of guys like Luke in church, trying to pray away the gay.... 

It’s funny you should say this because both times Luke referred to his sexually promiscuous past in his confessions to first Hannah and then his church group, both my husband and myself felt the way he phrased it was almost like he was gonna say “sometimes with men.”  So your suspicion doesn’t seem so far-fetched to us.

Edited July 16, 2019 by bobbyjoe

[Refresh]

40 minutes ago, thehepburn said:

Aphrodite was born from the foam off the coast of Cynthera.

It's commonly known that Aphrodite was married to Hephastus, which would mean that they were committing incest if she is indeed Zeus's daughter.

Ahh right. Birth of Venus etc.  But Zeus and Aphrodite never coupled was what I was trying to get at. Maybe the Father is more like an adopted father? Hmmm. I’m rusty I’ll admit. 

I’ve been trying to figure out who got the add-on 4th FS date. I think it was definitely Tyler. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Refresh
Typo

[dirtypop90]

Peter or Luke were the fourth date.  She feels nothing for Peter (other than he’s a nice guy) and didnt even try to build an emotional connection with him and I think she’s been ready to send Luke home. Jed has been in first place since she told him she feels guilty about her relationships with other men.  JMO 

Edited July 16, 2019 by dirtypop90

[SHD]

4 hours ago, JenE4 said:

It was Peter in the Windmill with the Rubber. 

Weirdest game of Clue ever.

[Miss Slay]

Not surprised Luke is the best kisser...I bet he's had the most practice. I've met guys like this - super promiscuous to the point that they have self hatred about it and only want to date virgins because they are afraid of ending up with anyone like themselves.

I feel like Jed really provided a truth bomb based on Hannah's reaction about her having trouble getting rid of things in her life that are bad for her.

[Andromeda]

I love this concept that Hannah slipped. "Oops! Your penis fell into my vagina! It was an accident, Luke, I promise!"

I'm kind of amazed how Hannah is standing up for herself as her own woman, considering a lot of Christian women (at least evangelicals) are taught they are to be secondary to their husbands in their marriages (you know, the old-style promise to obey. Luke is totally into that, and it only makes him creepier.) You go, Hannah, put that dolt in his place!

I lol'd so hard at Luke not wanting to get his ass up out of that chair. And the steam practically coming out of her ears.

Oops. Too bad she saved the "bucket-list helicopter-flight date to postcard-beautiful Santorini" for Luke. I could almost see the scales fall from her eyes, as the biblical saying goes.

I was almost sure Jed grousing about Luke was his "out" and bid to get ejected so he could be the bachelor (GAG ME.) Guess not.

Peter is a cutie. I'm kind of rooting for him now.

[tinkerbell]

4 hours ago, seasons said:

I don't like Luke's Sharpie eyebrows.

But you have to admit - If Hannah chose Luke, they could get married and have babies with the worlds worst eyebrows.

[Andromeda]

1 hour ago, Refresh said:

Zeus and Aphrodite never coupled was what I was trying to get at.

I was so annoyed at her putting Zeus and Aphrodite together. So not canon! Sometimes she's his daughter. (See my interest in Greek mythology in my avatar — and space, too!) From one website:

Quote

There are two accounts of her birth.

One says she is the daughter of Zeus and Dione.

The other goes back to when Cronus castrated Uranus and tossed his severed genitals into the sea. Aphrodite then arose from the sea foam on a giant scallop and walked to shore in Cyprus.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Andromeda

[Refresh]

Well Good for Hannah. It took longer than I’d like for her to realize who Luke is but better late than never. 

What I heard wasn’t just about FS sex, but about their different ideas of “sin” and about forgiveness / love and how it relates to that. Luke acting like he’s perfect, again, free of “sin” when he’s not (see episodes 1-9) and shaming her for her decisions, her “slip” . Like he’s the judge and better than her. He’s been doing this all season though in smaller ways. Girl finally sees it!

That’s when she started boiling, not when he was talking about his beliefs about sex for him. That’s my read. 

[Andromeda]

5 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I guess I'm the only person in the world who doesn't find Tyler even the LEAST BIT attractive. Ugh. No way. Never. Not interested. Not good looking. Do not like him AT ALL. Nothing about him. End of my Tyler story.

LOL! I think he has a weird-looking triangle head. So not my kind of guy.

[Andromeda]

4 hours ago, nutty1 said:

I haven’t found Hannah to look pretty at all this entire episode. Is that shallow of me?! 😜 

I didn't pay much attention to rednose's face, but I loved her resort-wear wardrobe!

[Aim123]

Tyler has that Channing Tatum vibe, the whole, "hey girl" thing, but it seems like he has about five lines and then he just starts making out with you (which... would be fine.) And even though he supposedly redeemed himself, I did not like how he got up and started rubbing her legs during that massage; that is a total boundary crosser, not cool.  

Jed, she's pissed off, get your hands off of her waist. Wait, she is spending the night with Jed and is making out with him in the morning!? What in the ever-living...Gross! Wow, she was positively giddy with Jed.

Ooohhh... The previews...Tyler stepping up, "OR WHAT?" Woooooo hooooo!

That was like the best Bachelorette season ever. For real this time.

Here is a shot of when it finally clicks in Hannah's brain....

[TomGirl]

This guy is so full of it!

https://people.com/tv/luke-p-talks-argument-the-bachelorette-hannah-brown-claps-back/

[DEL901]

I like how Peter said this all made him realize “how much he loved her”.    Which technically means the answer could be zero.  

After the Tyler date I think she was crying not just because he was so respectful but because she realized she’d missed her chance to try him out.  

Jed is an ass.  He should have been like Tyler and Peter and ignored the existence of other suitors.   

Life with Luke would be miserable as he kept pointing out your every “slip up” which were, of course, defined by him.  

Eta I also did not like how Luke said I know we are on the same page but I have to hear you say the words.... can you imagine what he would be like to live with... always right, always calling her on the carpet making her confess her mistakes and slip ups after which he would “graciously “ forgive and pray for her.  

Edited July 16, 2019 by DEL901

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, nutty1 said:

Still behind. Do you think Jed was hoping she’d dump him?

he had his perfect opportunity to storm off last week, and noone would have blamed him. for some reason he has fought to stay.

[PhysNerd]

8 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

I honestly think Luke was handling the conversation as a mature adult.  He's looking for someone that has the same morals and values.  What is wrong with that ?  All Hannah had to say was I don't think we are on the same page with our beliefs.  She doesn't have to get all bent out of shape and go off on him.

Saying you don't want to have sex before marriage is fine.  He crossed the line when he said that if Hannah slept with just one or multiple guys, then he was leaving.  He should've just said he was looking for someone who felt the same way. 

As much as Hannah lectured him about sex, I don't think she truly is comfortable with premarital sex.  If she were, she would have simply told Luke that he crossed the line and kicked him to the curb.  She keeps trying to justify her decisions while claiming she is a grown woman.  She still sounds like a little girl to me.

[nlkm9]

7 hours ago, Refresh said:

Wouldn’t that be a “rubber”? Hee!   

I feel badly for Peter. He is totally over the moon in love with her and its not going to end well....:(

[cinsays]

10 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I guess I'm the only person in the world who doesn't find Tyler even the LEAST BIT attractive. Ugh. No way. Never. Not interested. Not good looking. Do not like him AT ALL. Nothing about him. End of my Tyler story.

Nope, you are not alone.  I had to go back and look at his picture to see what everybody is drooling over.  Doesn't do anything for me either.

[Crs97]

I thought Tyler was attractive in his model shots, but didn’t go beyond that till I saw the YouTube clip of him hanging out with kids who participate in ABC Foods, a non profit he co-founded.  Then his family talking about how he was the rock when his dad got sick?  I’d always accept his rose.

[JenE4]

I fell asleep last night and just watched the Luke segment this morning. The best part was when he was standing by the car and held a fist up by his heart and summoned the power of Shower Jesus to do his biding—suddenly a downpour comes. Finish her [hair and makeup]! But then the winds pick up and it’s Windmill Jesus here to save the day and blow him into the car!

Huh. That closing scene with Peter gave us some new perspective on how he got it in twice with Hannah.

[JudyObscure]

I really don't see Luke as the hypocrite in this situation.  Yes, he had lots of sex in the past and admitted  it, (a hypocrite would have lied about his past) then he stopped it for four years.  That's what a conversion experience is all about -- change.  And becoming a Christian didn't mean he thought he was going to be perfect but that he would start trying at least to keep the commandments.  

 Hannah is the hypocrite here.  She's the one who talks about how important her faith is and how she wants a Christian marriage, but then doesn't seem to have learned much about her faith except that Jesus is forgiving, so instead of trying to live a life that follows her faith she just does what feels good and counts on that forgiveness.  She got the first part of the story about the woman who was being stoned for adultery right -- Jesus was telling the crowd not to judge her, but she leaves out what he said to the woman afterwards, "Go and sin no more."  All season Hannah was busy finding faults in the men, but never once worried about whether the ones she liked would like her back.  It seems like she uses her religion the same way, she can accuse Luke of being prideful, but never once ask anything of herself regarding the rules of her professed faith. 

When Luke first started talking to her about the fantasy dates he sounded like he didn't think she had seen the other guys yet.  They had had a wonderful day and both of them were glowing with love.  I think, at that point, he thought they were going to be engaged in a few days and he was telling her that he really wouldn't be okay with her sleeping with the other men. It's his feelings and he has a right to express them. Then she started talking and he realized she had already had some of those dates and had sex with someone. 

That's when he started walking it back and saying well if you have "slipped up," etc.  What he was saying was that if she said she just got making out and couldn't stop (rather than intending to have sex from the first)  he could get past that.  He was back-peddling, not because he thought he had said something wrong but to give her a way out of the awkwardness that he could live with.  He was back peddling on his ultimatum because it was a done deal and he loved her.  That's why he was sitting there stubbornly.  He trying to think of some way they could still be together.

Hannah threw out the one guy who really loves her.  A life with him would mean a certain amount of bluster about being the spiritual leader of the family, sure. But Hannah would ultimately get her own way about everything because there would always be hissy fits and temper tantrums if she didn't.

Luke is the best kisser, the best looking, has a real job and really, truly loves her.  I think she hates him now, though.  Too bad. They really did have a con-nayk-tion.  

[jackjill89]

As soon as Luke started talking about how he wants to be the spiritual head of the family, I'd be out. He wants to control everything and everybody. Yikes. He has a very puritanical view of religion. 

[adhoc]

Quote

so instead of trying to live a life that follows her faith she just does what feels good and counts on that forgiveness. 

Hang on, JudyObscure, I think you're making assumptions here about "her faith". I'm not Christian, but I know there are many flavors of Christianity, ranging from very fundamentalist to Unity. (And each version's adherents are certain their flavor is the "right" one.)

Obviously Luke's Christian beliefs are more to the "right" than Hannah's. You suggest she's not trying to live a life that follows her faith. I disagree with you. It's just her version of being a good Christian is different from Luke's. 

And he did not respect that.  He should have just left the moment he discovered their beliefs were not compatible. That would have been the respectful thing to do, not "school" her and judge her because of her "slip ups".

[waving feather]

2 hours ago, TomGirl said:

This guy is so full of it!

https://people.com/tv/luke-p-talks-argument-the-bachelorette-hannah-brown-claps-back/

LMAO this is hilarious and more entertaining than the show with the back and forth between Hannah and Luke on twitter. The way these two are going at each other and using God to validate their childish arguments (gross), why do I feel like this is what they enjoy? BOTH of them. The drama, the bickering, using the Jesus card in their fights. These two really deserve each other. And who knows they might get together for hate sex.

Edited July 16, 2019 by waving feather

[leighdear]

So Luke gave this interview.....(Yeah, should probably be in the media thread)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/the-bachelorette-luke-parker-speaks-out-after-controversial-sex-argument-with-hannah-brown/ar-AAEnb1Q?li=BBnb7Kz

But he makes this comment that is ridiculous, based on the type of Christian he SAYS he is:

"For me it was never about getting a rose, it was always about finding a wife who would choose me everyday just as I would choose her everyday."

Sorry buddy, you choose ONE TIME, not every day.  It's ONE PERSON FOR LIFE according to your "beliefs" and your god.  There is no alternative, because once you make that vow, it is DEATH that parts you, not making a choice one day to not be with this person. 

He's a slack-jaw idiot.  And is he drinking water through the whole season, or is alcohol A-OK with his leader too?

Yeah, I have nothing but loathing and disgust for this douchebag. 

[jette]

Excellent analysis, JudyObscure. I totally agree.

Luke probably thought Hannah was going to be Sean Lowe.2 going into the FS. She discovered at the dinner table that Luke wasn't who she thought he was. While watching the season back, Luke had to see himself behave poorly and also realize that Hannah wasn't who he thought she was either. Awful for them both. Not looking forward to the MTA, where everyone will be self-righteous.

[waving feather]

6 minutes ago, leighdear said:

"For me it was never about getting a rose, it was always about finding a wife who would choose me everyday just as I would choose her everyday."

Sorry buddy, you choose ONE TIME, not every day.  It's ONE PERSON FOR LIFE according to your "beliefs" and your god.  There is no alternative, because once you make that vow, it is DEATH that parts you, not making a choice one day to not be with this person. 

Not to defend Luke, but in this context he was spouting the corny Bachelor cliche, about choosing someone every day of their lives. I remember Arie and Becca said it at the FRC and Hannah did too in her exit interview on Colton's season. It's just another way of saying putting your love one first every single day. In a lame Bachelor nation way.

Edited July 16, 2019 by waving feather

[nutty1]

38 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I really don't see Luke as the hypocrite in this situation.  Yes, he had lots of sex in the past and admitted  it, (a hypocrite would have lied about his past) then he stopped it for four years.  That's what a conversion experience is all about -- change.  And becoming a Christian didn't mean he thought he was going to be perfect but that he would start trying at least to keep the commandments.  

 Hannah is the hypocrite here.  She's the one who talks about how important her faith is and how she wants a Christian marriage, but then doesn't seem to have learned much about her faith except that Jesus is forgiving, so instead of trying to live a life that follows her faith she just does what feels good and counts on that forgiveness.  She got the first part of the story about the woman who was being stoned for adultery right -- Jesus was telling the crowd not to judge her, but she leaves out what he said to the woman afterwards, "Go and sin no more."  All season Hannah was busy finding faults in the men, but never once worried about whether the ones she liked would like her back.  It seems like she uses her religion the same way, she can accuse Luke of being prideful, but never once ask anything of herself regarding the rules of her professed faith. 

When Luke first started talking to her about the fantasy dates he sounded like he didn't think she had seen the other guys yet.  They had had a wonderful day and both of them were glowing with love.  I think, at that point, he thought they were going to be engaged in a few days and he was telling her that he really wouldn't be okay with her sleeping with the other men. It's his feelings and he has a right to express them. Then she started talking and he realized she had already had some of those dates and had sex with someone. 

That's when he started walking it back and saying well if you have "slipped up," etc.  What he was saying was that if she said she just got making out and couldn't stop (rather than intending to have sex from the first)  he could get past that.  He was back-peddling, not because he thought he had said something wrong but to give her a way out of the awkwardness that he could live with.  He was back peddling on his ultimatum because it was a done deal and he loved her.  That's why he was sitting there stubbornly.  He trying to think of some way they could still be together.

Hannah threw out the one guy who really loves her.  A life with him would mean a certain amount of bluster about being the spiritual leader of the family, sure. But Hannah would ultimately get her own way about everything because there would always be hissy fits and temper tantrums if she didn't.

Luke is the best kisser, the best looking, has a real job and really, truly loves her.  I think she hates him now, though.  Too bad. They really did have a con-nayk-tion.  

I wish I could give this 100 likes!

[Crs97]

53 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I really don't see Luke as the hypocrite in this situation.  Yes, he had lots of sex in the past and admitted  it, (a hypocrite would have lied about his past) then he stopped it for four years.  That's what a conversion experience is all about -- change.  And becoming a Christian didn't mean he thought he was going to be perfect but that he would start trying at least to keep the commandments.  

Luke seems to define his Christianity only by whether he is having premarital sex.  We’ve seen him lie to get ahead and treat others with disdain.  She pointed out his sin of pride.  Those don’t seem to matter to him as long as he is celibate.  

I’ve seen this attitude many times, and it seems to be joined with an attitude that good Christian women “know their place.”  As he said, he will be the spiritual leader of the house.  I find him to be disturbing.

If you read their recent tweet war, he is happy to judge her.  Not my definition of unconditional love.

[leighdear]

21 minutes ago, waving feather said:

Not to defend Luke, but in this context he was spouting the corny Bachelor cliche, about choosing someone every day of their lives. I remember Arie and Becca said it at the FRC and Hannah did too in her exit interview on Colton's season. It's just another way of saying putting your love one first every single day. In a lame Bachelor nation way.

Yeah, so putting your faith and all of the tenants that you supposedly live by is second to spouting those Bachelor platitudes. 

God and Jesus have supposedly been the cornerstone of everything Luke has done all season, but NOW he's not too concerned?

He's a hypocrite, but worse, he has NO IDEA what he is even saying.  He's got so many contradictions he can't even see them, tripping over one to blather about another.  

None of the other folks you mentioned threw God or Jesus around constantly.  

[nutty1]

My thought is Hannah and Luke deserve each other. I cannot stand either of them.

[tinkerbell]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Hannah threw out the one guy who really loves her.  A life with him would mean a certain amount of bluster about being the spiritual leader of the family, sure. But Hannah would ultimately get her own way about everything because there would always be hissy fits and temper tantrums if she didn't.

Luke is the best kisser, the best looking, has a real job and really, truly loves her.  I think she hates him now, though.  Too bad. They really did have a con-nayk-tion.  

But that's not how you choose who to marry. Hannah isn't really there to choose the guy who loves her the most. Its HER choice, she needs to choose the guy SHE loves. Early on she felt a strong connection, but when luke started spouting his judgemental christian stuff, she realized she was never going to love him

[RedheadZombie]

2 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I like how Peter said this all made him realize “how much he loved her”.    Which technically means the answer could be zero.  

After the Tyler date I think she was crying not just because he was so respectful but because she realized she’d missed her chance to try him out.  

Jed is an ass.  He should have been like Tyler and Peter and ignored the existence of other suitors.   

Life with Luke would be miserable as he kept pointing out your every “slip up” which were, of course, defined by him.  

Eta I also did not like how Luke said I know we are on the same page but I have to hear you say the words.... can you imagine what he would be like to live with... always right, always calling her on the carpet making her confess her mistakes and slip ups after which he would “graciously “ forgive and pray for her.  

I felt like he knew the answer but was attempting to embarrass her on air. 

When she had to stand there shivering in the rain and he refused to get in the car, I was pissed. She should have told him to fuck off and had Chris get rid of the guy. 

[waving feather]

15 minutes ago, leighdear said:

Yeah, so putting your faith and all of the tenants that you supposedly live by is second to spouting those Bachelor platitudes. 

God and Jesus have supposedly been the cornerstone of everything Luke has done all season, but NOW he's not too concerned?

He's a hypocrite, but worse, he has NO IDEA what he is even saying.  He's got so many contradictions he can't even see them, tripping over one to blather about another.  

None of the other folks you mentioned threw God or Jesus around constantly.  

I have no idea why he says half the things he says and it seems like he doesn't know either, since he is just back-paddling all the time. But I am just explaining the context of that phrase used, not comparing him to other folks or trying to guess what he is concerned or not concerned about. 🙂

[DEL901]

I tend to forget that Luke is 24, just like Hannah.  A branch of my family is very religious and I remember my nephew at that age thinking he knew everything and every word out of his mouth was basically the word of god and that everyone else was wrong.  He's grown up a lot and knows when not to lecture others now, but he still expects his wife to live by the godly rules that he interprets for her.  With someone like Luke, you either believe and accept the same things he does or your life will be miserable because you will always be judged and found wanting. 

(That said, if you believe the same like my nephew and his wife, they seem really happy together.)

[Bobcatkitten]

Luke is welcome to have his morals. But then don't go on a show where a woman dates 20 different guys at the same time and has fantasy suites with all of them. Ridiculous. 

He laid down the thing about him leaving if she had sex with others and then freaked out and tried to get out of it when she pointed out it's none of his business. 

[bosawks]

Just now, Bobcatkitten said:

Luke is welcome to have his morals. But then don't go on a show where a woman dates 20 different guys at the same time and has fantasy suites with all of them. Ridiculous. 

He laid down the thing about him leaving if she had sex with others and then freaked out and tried to get out of it when she pointed out it's none of his business. 

Exactly what show did Luke think he was signing up for.

If Jesus spoke to him in the shower about this I'm thinking Luke must have had water in his ears.

[DEL901]

13 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Luke is welcome to have his morals. But then don't go on a show where a woman dates 20 different guys at the same time and has fantasy suites with all of them. Ridiculous. 

He laid down the thing about him leaving if she had sex with others and then freaked out and tried to get out of it when she pointed out it's none of his business. 

11 minutes ago, bosawks said:

Exactly what show did Luke think he was signing up for.

If Jesus spoke to him in the shower about this I'm thinking Luke must have had water in his ears.

Maybe he thought he'd be an example to them all?

Luke went off the rails when he got the first impression rose and thought that it was game over.  All the other men were supposed to step aside and let him "win", since Hannah had already chosen him.  He really didn't understand the show.

[econ07]

Taking the religious faith out of this, I don't think it is unreasonable for any man or woman to want their potential fiance to want them enough to refrain from sex with others within a week of their potential engagement.  Hannah's incredulity is puzzling.  Luke really just wants to know that she respects and cares about him enough to commit to him and refrain from sex with others.  Once Luke learned that she didn't, he should have just left.

Don't get me wrong, Luke has all the traits of a nihilist and controlling husband.  But on this specific issue, I would want some confirmation that she cares about me enough to show some  signs of exclusivity, and some chastity with other men, as a sign that she loves me.

[nittany cougar]

One aspect of last night that puzzles me the long sex convo with Luke capped off by Hannah's proud declaration that she had sex and Jesus still loves her.  The thing I don't get is why Hannah, with her religious background, would subject her family to a televised list of sins of her vagina.   Seriously WTF. 

Do what you want with your body but damn, get a filter about what you say.  Do you think your parents want to hear about that stuff?  She has no consideration for how her family might feel watching that.  Everything is all about what Hannah wants right now.  I am not sure why anyone wants to be in a relationship with her.

Edited July 16, 2019 by nittanycougar

[JudyObscure]

1 minute ago, econ07 said:

Hannah's incredulity is puzzling.

Really.  She and Luke have been talking about their faith from the very first.  She knew he was a Southern Baptist.  If  she  belonged to a much more liberal Christian church like the Episcopal Church they would have both known they weren't on the same page from the first.  She knew from his testimony that he had given up premarital sex, so she should have known he thought that was wrong. 

 Last night he said, I'm the spiritual leader of my family and I know you said you were the spiritual leader of your family," and she nodded.  Obviously they had talked about that and to them "spiritual leader," meant role model for the rest of the family -- nothing to do with gender. She actually went to his church with him. She had every opportunity to tell him if she didn't share his sort of Christianity.

  Yes this show is about dating 20 men, but there's nothing in the Bible against dating.  It's perfectly possible to go on a lot of silly touristy  dates with the cameras following and not have sex.  The fantasy dates have always been defined as "time alone, away from the cameras." The show does not require anyone to have sex.

[bosawks]

I'm actually not being snide or obnoxious, I really have no idea what being the "Spiritual Leader" of a family entails.

Is that really a thing?

[Captain Asshat]

11 hours ago, XoxoGG said:

Hannah has a sense of narcissism about her. If you look closely you can see it and hear it. 

Eh...the show is called "The Bachelorette," and she is the Bachelorette in question. Plus, she's bought into the illusion that she calls the shots. That has to come with some sense of narcissism. 

[b2H]

1 hour ago, econ07 said:

Taking the religious faith out of this, I don't think it is unreasonable for any man or woman to want their potential fiance to want them enough to refrain from sex with others within a week of their potential engagement.  Hannah's incredulity is puzzling.  Luke really just wants to know that she respects and cares about him enough to commit to him and refrain from sex with others.  Once Luke learned that she didn't, he should have just left.

Under normal circumstances, you'd be completely correct and I would expect that to occur a heck of a lot sooner than one week before an engagement.

Unfortunately, Luke apparently didn't understand what this show is about.  It's not normal circumstances.  Every one of the successful dozen or so relationships has had to grow without destination dates, helicopters, luxury boats and alcohol.  They've had to survive and grow on real life with real life problems.  This isn't normal.

Now, I'm fine with the concept of, once the engagement takes place, all outside physical contact should stop.  But this is a dating 'game' where nothing is off the table.  If Luke thought he could re-write 15 years of rules, he was sadly mistaken.  He came off this entire season looking like a controlling bastard and he shouldn't have made it past the second or third week.  Last night truly shone the spotlight on what a miserable individual he is, for all his spouting of Christianity.  And the fact that, in the preview, he shows up next week declaring that she doesn't know what she wants and he's back to show her the error of her ways after she booted him out of consideration shows his complete lack of respect for her.  Period.

Edited July 16, 2019 by b2H

[Bobcatkitten]

1 hour ago, econ07 said:

Taking the religious faith out of this, I don't think it is unreasonable for any man or woman to want their potential fiance to want them enough to refrain from sex with others within a week of their potential engagement.  Hannah's incredulity is puzzling.  Luke really just wants to know that she respects and cares about him enough to commit to him and refrain from sex with others.  Once Luke learned that she didn't, he should have just left.

In normal life and dating of course. But this show is not the normal way obviously - since you are dating another guy up until the day you get engaged. 

[Dejana]

Sean Lowe was on Emily Maynard's season. When she was a Bachelor contestant, she was shown declining the fantasy suites with Brad, saying she was a mother and wanted to set a good example for her child. On her own season as Bachelorette, she was shown not having any overnight dates (it was later revealed that she did have fantasy suites off-camera with her final three, though Sean's didn't involve sex). As far as Sean knew, Emily wasn't sleeping with the other guys or expecting it from him during the season, so there weren't any great clashes between them about sex. He never would have been picked as Bachelor if he'd spent his season as a contestant judging the lead for her sexual behavior, offering his forgiveness for it and constantly getting into fights with the other guys.

The circumstances for Luke vs Sean are very different. Luke could have been firm in his beliefs without being so territorial and demanding. It's obviously never going to happen but I wonder how Luke would be as Bachelor? Would he come off better since the show would revolve around him and he'd be in a position to set the rules? Would he have his pick of virgins yet be more drawn to a "fallen woman" he felt like he could try to "save"? 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Dejana

[Rebky]

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So Luke is great just with you, it’s just when he talks to any other person that it falls apart. So your going to gave a life together...how?

Don't fall for this fake charm!  He's a sociopath just like my ex.  He will be treating you the same way once he snares you Hannah, take it from someone who had a Luke once. Not worth it!!

Also, every time I look at Jed, I see the following memory:

Picture it, the South, too many years ago.  Me, as a six year old, mashing the face of my Ken doll.  He's all smushed face with a huge forehead.  THAT is Jed to me, so ewww - give me the hotness that is Tyler. 😍

Edited July 16, 2019 by Rebky
It's Jed, not Jeb as in Duck Dynasty!!