S08.E06: The Iron Throne

[Leroux]

31 minutes ago, dramachick said:

Loved the ending! The Starks finally came out on top! Yay!

I was a little bit worried for Jon, but when they said he was going to the Night's Watch I knew he would be okay because there wasn't any Night's Watch, just free folk living beyond the wall doing their own thing.

I am sure Jon will be sometimes at Castle Black and just spend a few weeks there but his real home will be with the wildings. 

It was mainly done to appease Grey Worm and company but maybe Tyrion played a little bit on how little the Unsullied and Dotraki know about Westeros culture and how the NW basically has ceased to exist, so all the more power to Jon. The wildings already respect him and admire him. Tormunds gets to be his right hand. 

I was happy to hear that Arya and Sansa both fought hard for Jon but there needed to be concessions made and this solution fits the bill. 

[sweetcookieface]

I guess I'm in the minority because I was mostly happy with the finale. I found it flawed, but ultimately satisfying.

I thought the second half - and especially the last 30 minutes or so - was much stronger than the first. I was genuinely affected by Brienne updating Jamie's entry; the reveal of the new Small Council and the exchange between them; and the montage intercutting Jon's, Sansa's, and Arya's respective paths. I thought the montage hit all the right beats (bittersweet, yet hopeful) and included some incredible shots (especially the ones with Sansa donning her garb and being crowned).

The first half was less successful, but not terrible. I thought the opening, with Tyrion, Jon et al surveying the damage; Grey Worm killing the surrendered soldiers; and Dany giving her speech (all set against a snowy backdrop); was chilling and beautifully executed (especially the shot of Drogon's wings appearing behind Dany). There was a real mounting sense of dread. The problem, of course, is that Dany's villainous turn over these two episodes felt a bit abrupt. And I really wish they had developed her worldview a bit more - for all the references to breaking the wheel, they never really explain what that means in a context where slavery doesn't exist. I feel like they missed an opportunity to depict a much more morally grey character - e.g., a revolutionary who uses draconian tactics to achieve critically needed social change. Oh well. Jon Snow's killing of Daenerys was handled ok, I guess, but the idea that she would just be wandering around without any protection strains credulity. And don't even get me started on the handling of the POC characters. In particular, I didn't like that Grey Worm was depicted as cruel and vindictive, even though it was totally reasonable to demand justice for the assassination of the Queen. (At least all his glowering was tempered by one sweet moment: sailing towards Naath.)

The decision to anoint Bran was... fine. I'm not really sure there was another choice that would have made sense, so I'm willing to get on board, even though it's not entirely clear to me why someone who is a repository for history would necessarily make a good ruler.

I was happy to see a few of my favorites make it to the end: Davos, Brienne, and Tormund, in particular. (As an aside, Davos really would have made the best Hand - he was instrumental in defusing the tension between Grey Worm and the others.) And I was happy to see Jon reunited with Ghost, if only because I knew Reddit would explode if Jon neglected to pet him once again.

The finale, like the rest of the season, wasn't perfect. But words can't express how much I'm going to miss this show.

[QuinnM]

4 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Gendry was definitely there. I think he was sitting next to Robyn.

Oh and he had the most fabulous new black leather outfit.  It looked like new money but that’s to be expected. I was very disappointed in the lack of, let’s call it appeal, of the new king of Dorne.  We are talking a real step down here.

Edited May 20, 2019 by QuinnM

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Right, Drogon is apparently capable of abstract thought that seeking that stupid chair killed his Mommy, but not the concrete thought that the man who plunged a dagger into his Mommy's heart was standing in front of him. 

I thought he could just sense that Jon was heartbroken as well.

[Beachdreamer]

2 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Gendry was there. Remember he's only been the head of his house for a month or two. Brienne is born nobility. Ser Davos has been politicking for a couple of years. Gendry needs that guidance from his banners.

He was there, and he and Arya weren't together?  Another disappointment, then.

[kieyra]

2 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Why weren't they discussing cleaning up the city? Tending to the wounded? Why are ships more important?

Also found that weird. There weren’t any people left to feed, much less defend with ships, or build ships, or build brothels. I understand bureaucracy rolls on, but there was no populace left, unless there’s a huge chunk of survivors who fled into the countryside. If so, would have been nice to see them straggling back in.

[Drogo]

[kieyra]

I think the “where was Gendry” conversation has people confusing two scenes.

He WAS at the “who will be king” meeting.

He was not on the small council.

[Richness]

I was fine until Arya's single tear fell, then I lost it.

Drogon gently lifting and flying Dany's body back to Valyria came close.

[tennisgurl]

43 minutes ago, screamin said:

Bran commissioned her to discover America, I suppose. Though he could just take a long look and tell her what's there if he felt like it.

It turns out it was Earth all along! Or maybe it was all in modern day? It was all Sweet Robin looking into a snow globe? The mother was dead all along? Jon was for real dead all along? It was the plants? Sansa was in a mental insinuation in California? Bran was Keyser Söze? 

What a twist!

[Ottis]

59 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Nope. She was an ambitious women and got sick of apologizing for it. You notice the only woman who got what she wanted was the one who said being raped and abused made her stronger. 

Her speech to her troops resembled Nazi films. Her half crazy smile as she gazed at the throne was disturbing. Her explanation to Jon that she, and no one else, knew what a better world was was terrifying.

Dany was clearly mad. I don't see how it can be viewed any other way, given what was shown. 

[Francie]

1 hour ago, Francie said:

Yara: Aye. [To Bran being king]

Sansa: Tens of thousands fell in the Great War defending all of Westeros. And those who survived fought too hard to ever kneel again. The North will remain an independent kingdom as it was for thousands of years. 

Yara:  Wait, on second thought, the Iron Islands were an independent kingdom for thousand of years. In fact, Edmure’s lands belonged to us. Iron Islands will remain ....

Bran and Tyrion: You said “aye.”  No take backs!!

Yara: No, seriously, Danaerys and I had a deal.  I would give her the ships to carry you all to Westeros, and she would grant independence to the Iron Island.

Tyrion: Yeah, sorry, do you have a receipt?

Yara: Tyron — you were there! Bran, you see all things. Go back to Theon and I meeting Danaerys in Mereen. 

Bran: Yeah, no, I’m going to go flying as a raven now. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Francie

[kieyra]

By the way, Sansa smiled plenty during this episode. Womanly duties fulfilled.

[Popples]

[Raachel2008]

55 minutes ago, Leroux said:

In a few years, Bran will pardon him, Sansa will give him a hold in the North and he can finally live and peace, marry and maybe even have kids. JMO

Sansa will NEVER give anyone a hold in the North, and if she ever does, Jon is the very last person of the list.

[DrScottie]

47 minutes ago, dbell1 said:

Sam is a maester? Did he take an online course? Because it's supposed to take flipping years.

Apparently, Sam healing Jorah of his Greyscale fast tracked him. 

[TobinAlbers]

4 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Sansa being queen is OK, but really weird considering her bro is the king of the other six kingdoms.

Because Bran won’t always be King and she won’t always be QitN. Securing that the North is independent of the collected kingdoms supposedly means that when the new King or Queen is voted in, the North  remains independent and rules itself. Sansa was looking out for the present and future generations as much as she could. Her time in King’s Landing and seeing the whims and machinations of everyone really seemed to set it in her mind that for the North to be safe and secure, it had to be free of the yoke to that throne.

[nilyank]

So after all these years, the lesson is if you are having sex with your sister and push the kid who saw out of window, beware that he will be king while you and your sister lay dead in a rubble of stone.

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Ottis said:

Her speech to her troops resembled Nazi films. Her half crazy smile as she gazed at the throne was disturbing. Her explanation to Jon that she, and no one else, knew what a better world was was terrifying.

Dany was clearly mad. I don't see how it can be viewed any other way, given what was shown. 

It reminded me of the speech in Woody Allen's movie Bananas when the revolutionary leader becomes the leader and starts making absurd demands like everyone wearing their underwear on the outside.

Btw, I like how Bran leaving the council at the end was like a kid making an excuse to go to his room and play videogames or get high.

[rollacoaster]

25 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

D& D give us a preview of what their Confederate show would have been like by having Davos offer the freed slaves, " a little piece of nice land," as a thank you for their service...when they literally have not acknowledged previously the sacrifices they made at Winterfell for nothing.....1865...Reconstruction...

Shoulda thrown in a mule and some honeycomb to go with thse 40 acres...

[Francie]

23 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

He looks the same to me 

Look again.

Hellllooo, Robin of Arryn. 

[Sakura12]

2 minutes ago, Popples said:

Best shot of the whole episode. Dany became a dragon. 

[CeeBeeGee]

I...didn't hate it. I liked it better than Daenerys methodically murdering civilians street by street in the last episode. There was some stuff that was a little too "on the nose"--I will admit, Sam calling his book ASOIAF was *cheeeesyyyyyy.* It rwaps up things perhaps a little too neatly but after the first twenty minutes of the episode--when I was dreading what Grey Worm (one of my favorite characters) or Dany (ditto) might do or say next to erode their humanity--I'll take it.

The conversation between Dany and Jon in the Throne Room was terrifying, as was Dany's address to the troops. Full-on Triumph of the Will.

I did like Brienne's writing the epitaph for Jaime.

Tyrion uncovering Jaime and Cersei was so moving. Such a waste.

I was *wrecked* by Dany and Drogon. Wrecked. That was beautiful, and sad, and heartbreaking. Her character deserved so, so much better. His anguished keening over her body, his carrying her off--wrecked. I'm crying right now. Goodbye, beautiful queen who just wanted to end slavery, who wanted to give the Unsullied a choice, who wanted to avenge the murdered slave children of Mereen, who tried to stop the Dothraki from raping the women of the Great Grass Sea. Who helped save the world from the Night King just three episodes ago. Take her somewhere, you magnificent beast, and honor her. I truly hope we see your kind again. The world is a little sadder and smaller without dragons.

Edited May 20, 2019 by CeeBeeGee

[BitterApple]

In between Dany's death and the Three-Eyed Hamster being named King, who the hell was running the city? Where were people getting food? Who was treating the injured? Who kept order? It's not like the Dothraki are a warm and fuzzy bunch. If the last episode hadn't happened, you'd never guess 2/3 of King's Landing got torched along with its' inhabitants.

When Dany and Jon were in the Throne Room I couldn't help but think they might want to get a structural engineer to check out the Red Keep. I'd imagine the foundation was toast at that point. 

Sam saying the King should be chosen by "everyone"......followed by a small coterie of rich and privileged making that decision. So much for breaking the wheel, eh? I guess Davos' vote represented the huddled masses.

Edited May 20, 2019 by BitterApple

[MadameKillerB]

I cried. I admit it. Cried when Drogon was so upset over his Mommy. Cried when Brienne put Jaime's deeds in The Book. Cried when the Starks said goodbye.

ETA: How could I forget the Very Good Boy Ghost. I cried when he got his pats from Jon.

Edited May 20, 2019 by MadameKillerB

[Francie]

I’m imagining a level of seven hells right now where Cersei is cursing up a storm at Jaime ...

”If we had just stayed where we where, we would have survived! We were 10 feet away from living, you idiot!” 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Francie
Because curing and cursing are two different things.~Stannis

[WatchrTina]

1 hour ago, zibnchy said:

Why is Brienne on the Small Council? Isn't she oathbound to Sansa? She could be Sansa's hand.  Sansa may need her for protection. Also why was she voting for the new king? Is she Lord of something now? (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Brienne, but I don't love her on the small council.)

I'm afraid someone has probably already answered these but here goes.

The leader of the Kingsguard has a seat on the small council and based on Brienne's new armor and the fact that she was writing in the Kingsguard book, she appears to be the new head of that order.  Sansa must have released her from her vow so that she could protect Bran instead.

As for why she was voting for the new king -- she is the heir to the Sapphire Islands (that came up when Jamie was trying to prevent her from being raped back in season 2 or 3) so I'm guessing that as the head of a house (albeit a minor house) she gets a vote . . . especially since so many houses were "headless" at the point the vote was taken.

Edited May 20, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Lemuria]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

They've established a system where a king (or queen) is appointed by the ruling families - not inherited by birthright.

Who get their power by--wait for it--birthright.  And with no intention of sharing that power with the smallfolk or expanding the circle.  And if you don't think that when Bran finally gets a motorized wheelchair and zooms back off to live in a weirwood tree house ("No Gɹils Allowed") there won't be a power struggle that will end up with another version of a monarchy, I have a great bridge to sell you.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Lemuria

[QuinnM]

1 minute ago, MadameKillerB said:

I cried. I admit it. Cried when Drogon was so upset over his Mommy. Cried when Brienne put Jaime's deeds in The Book. Cried when the Starks said goodbye.

Cried when Tyrion basically told Jon that he had to kill Dany.  Cried when Jon killed Dany.  Cried when Drogon cried.  It was all very upsetting and I may call in sick tomorrow.  I need some alone time.

[kieyra]

I think the bickering small council was meant to show that the more things change, the more the they stay the same. So yeah, I had no illusions of a utopia.

Also, there was a spoiler, I guess fake, that back in the north they were going to find more spiral body arrays like the NK had left. I guess that would have been semi cool, in a “this has happened before, and will happen again” kinda way. Ish. 

[steelyis]

14 minutes ago, Leroux said:

The Wildings are upfront and not so much into politics and double talking so this suits Jon's style perfectly. 

This.

12 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

I have to respectfully disagree.  They aren't remotely headed toward a democracy.  They've always had a small council.  And since Bran will probably be mostly hands-off, it's really an oligarchy.

And that's Newton's Fourth Law;  "An oligarchy stays an oligarchy unless acted upon by an outside force storming the Bastille."

So Tyrion is king by default?

6 minutes ago, braziliangirl said:

I hate it. Can't find a reasoning for Tyrion and John being alive. 

3 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Actually, Grey Worm no longer had a dog in the hunt.  Daenerys was dead, Drogon wouldn't obey anyone else so couldn't be counted on and other than revenge, why would he care about what happened in Westeros?  It wasn't his home.  He was "a foreigner" and none of them had exactly rolled out the welcome wagon for the Unsullied or the Dothraki. But other than that, I have no clue why Grey Worm didn't try to kill Tyrion or Jon. 

I don't understand why Grey Worm didn't kill Jon. Anyone who killed Dany should have been executed by Grey Worm on the spot, no matter who they were. But I think what kept Tyrion alive was his friendly relationship with Grey Worm and Missandei back in the good old days.

[Drogo]

High in the halls of the kings who are gone, Jenny would dance with her ghosts (scene in the Throne Room)

The ones she had lost (Drogo/Drogon)

And the ones she had found (Jon)

And the ones who had loved her the most (Both)

[Sparger Springs]

Brieene should've wrote Jamie was a fuckboi. 

[rollacoaster]

24 minutes ago, Mystery said:

28 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

He took her to a spinoff! Only there's no human characters, it's 8 seasons of adventures of Drogon!

I would watch this. 

Count me in.

Though, my friend imagined Drogon  taking her home, laying her atop a rock, setting her on fire, then curling up around her to die. 

18 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

Looked a whole lot like Cersei's wardrobe. 

Cersei was Sansa's role model.  

It reminded me a bit of Dany's Northern wardrobe, too,.

[JennyMominFL]

I wish Drogon had died, I hate the dragons. I watched the show despite the fantasy elements, not because of them. They were basically MOAB”s . I know this wont be a popular opinion, but once I saw Dany had Dragons , i knew things would end badly for her. No one should have that kind of power

[Scarlett45]

Just now, Sparger Springs said:

Brieene should've wrote Jamie was a fuckboi. 

Yes. I did not think it was sweet. Brienne deserved so much better than Jaime!

[tennisgurl]

I admit, I did tear up quite a few times during this episode. I cried when Brienne put down Jaimies good deeds in the book. I cried when Jon finally gave Ghost a pet. What really killed me was when Dany died, and poor Drogon was so obviously heartbroken over his moms death. And I just hate what a waste it all was for her. She came so far, from being sold as a prize by her abusive brother, no kingdom, no money, no agency, to finally taking the Iron Throne, after liberating slaves and saving lives and bringing dragons back into the world, and then...she just randomly lost it (and she was full on muahahah by this episode) after losing so much already, and then was stabbed by her nephew/boyfriend, and her baby took her body back to Valyria, where the Targ story really started. Its such a tragic, hallow ending for the women we have rooted for for so long, and been following her journey for years. I do think it could have worked, paced out to show her tragic descent into madness or power corrupting her, becoming what she once hated, but now? It just seems so tragically pointless. She might as well have never come to Westeros at all, and just stayed in one of the Free Cities. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by tennisgurl

[kieyra]

Queen costumes: the only one who ever really stood out, in terms of costume design, was Maergary. 

[Drogo]

1 minute ago, rollacoaster said:

reminded me a bit of Dany's Northern wardrobe, too,.

The only armor Daenerys wore was Plot Armor.

[Raachel2008]

53 minutes ago, laprin said:

I did not buy that Dany was so far gone that death was the only answer, but whatever show.

Dany was totally 110% convinced she had freed the people of Westeros. The very same people she burned alive. 

[lucindabelle]

Drogon is all alone in the world.

[aemom]

I was saying last week that I felt that they had painted themselves into a corner with Bran who appears to know everything including how it all ends. So Bran - seriously?  We couldn't have bypassed some of the killing to get to this point? It's like a gruesome version of the Wizard of Oz where Dorothy had to learn it for herself before she could go home.

I really don't understand why Yara and some of the others didn't complain about Sansa bowing out. None of the others wanted to be independent too?

Thank God Jon took care of Dani because she had seriously gone off the deep end. "They don't get to choose."

Overall I liked the ending more than I thought I would, but it could have been a lot better.

Drogon might have been the smartest of them all. He melted the throne, said fuck this shit, took his mom and left.

[Popples]

I need to know who this actor is.

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

There were a lot of really good moments here. Dany, unquestionably, had to die. There was no question that she would have launched a reign of terror over the world because only she got to decide how people should live. And it was right that Jon fulfilled his greatest duty by saving the world. His reward... back to the wall where it looks like he was immediately made Lord Commander again and then went beyond the wall with the Wildlings. My headcannon is totally having him as Lord Commander of the Nights Watch and King Beyond the Wall. You can't talk me out of it. Go get yourself a girl kissed by fire, Jon. You've earned it.

AGH!  But she was perfectly willing to listen to other people's opinions about what was good and right and wise until this episode!

[ShellsandCheese]

14 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

In between Dany's death and the Three-Eyed Hamster being named King, who the hell was running the city? Where were people getting food? Who was treating the injured? Who kept order? It's not like the Dothraki are a warm and fuzzy bunch. If the last episode hadn't happened, you'd never guess 2/3 of King's Landing got torched along with its' inhabitants.

When Dany and Jon were in the Throne Room I couldn't help but think they might want to get a structural engineer to check out the Red Keep. I'd imagine the foundation was toast at that point. 

Sam saying the King should be chosen by "everyone"......followed by a small coterie of rich and privileged making that decision. So much for breaking the wheel, eh? I guess Davos' vote represented the huddled masses.

The Unsullied were. And they have amazing rebuilding skills. 

[queenanne]

Yeah, I too thought Bran was a terrible choice because his visions seemed like they would be envisioned on a par with choosing a ruler with epilepsy (not trying to be ableist, but in ‘the olden days’ I am fairly sure that stopped some old-ass European monarch), so I find it hard to believe the same crew who flinched at democracy would go all-in for Bran.

also a little bit surprised and ticked off they went for having Arya and Gendry totally ignore each other.  That’s just weird.  Everything else, maybe they weren’t my ideal choices but I can see the logic and aren’t throwing shoes at my TV over it .  Well, that and a nice post surgery OxyContin.

[filmfan2480]

5 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

Drogon is all alone in the world.

He really is.  That saddens me.

[Potanical Pardon]

I liked it but so many more questions.

Does Westeros still owe the Bank of Braavos?

Who was the guy next to Gendry? Who was the new Dorne Lord?

Who freed Edmure and how did he stay alive that long in a cell before whoever rescued him? I guess Lannisters troops took him with them to KL when Cersei needed everyone on deck?

Is Brienne, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard? I think that's what that meant when she was able to write in the book?

Who are Sansa's Small Council? Shit! Robyn and Judgy Royce? Edmure? OMFG. I guess maybe Meera? And where was she or her dad at the random surviving House Lords summit?

So like the Unsullied and Dothraki are just gonna hang out in a way smaller than Esos, Naath? Daario's fucked. Dragon's Bay? Slavers' Bay again, I think.

[filmfan2480]

So the reason Jon was not King or not tossed around as possible King was because and ONLY because the Iron Throne was no more?  Is this correct?

[LittleIggy]

Oh, BTW, my cats Lord Baelish and Aemon Targaryen thank GoT for their names.