S02.E13: Somewhere Else

[CherithCutestory]

43 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

It's annoying that they essentially dropped the WOC from the s1 triangle and made it just the white woman's love story. I'm actually quite angry about this. 

What love triangle? Chidi was never interested in her at all. And the explicitly stated point of the torture was that she would fall for Chidi, because he was sophisticated and she was surrounded by rubes, but he would never love her back.

That was never a genuine love triangle. It was designed to be part of the torture.

Edited February 2, 2018 by CherithCutestory

[Mockingbird]

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

In other news, I didn't realize until reading this thread that what I was watching was the final episode until next season. Talk about your desert. Shirt.

I have had to break it to three friends that this episode was the season finale. I was met with two “THIS is the bad place!”s and one “Now I know how Jason would have felt watching that Jags game.” 

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

The English language is so forking confusing. lol So desert can mean a barren wasteland, leaving someone or something, or getting a reward? WTFork?!??!! I'm a native English speaker and I think that's some forked up shirt. haha

Somewhat OT, but google comedian Ismo and a$$ being the most complicated word.  Forkin' hilarious.

I have no dog in the dessert/desert fight, and whichever answer is right has pretty much no bearing on how much I enjoyed this episode.

I agree with above posts that this is NOT earth, but is a simulation.  I think that's pretty clear by what they've been able to do so far on all the Bad Place resets and the judicial tests.  It probably would have been better to have Chidi on the phone in French, then switching to speak to Eleanor in English when she walked in, just to avoid all this French/English discussion.  Which, again, has no bearing on how much I enjoyed this episode. 

And, most of all, I can't believe there is only one other post that even brings up Who Saved Eleanor??? 

Finally, putting Ted Danson back into Sam mode really confirms for me that he is way more handsome now as a silver fox than he was in his younger days.  Hot diggity dog!

[Notwisconsin]

That’s a wig. Ted Danson is bald. 

[chaifan]

21 minutes ago, Notwisconsin said:

That’s a wig. Ted Danson is bald. 

You're a mean, mean person, NotWisconsin.  Now go tell a 5 year old Santa Claus isn't real.

Edited February 2, 2018 by chaifan

[Milburn Stone]

4 hours ago, J-Man said:

The closed captioning clearly said DESERT. And that's also how it's used in the expression "just deserts," although many people make the mistake of using "desserts" in that situation as well.

I see it now. (Not the closed captioning, the point.) I'm very familiar with the phrase "just deserts," and in fact I'm one who does not misspell "desert" in the phrase "just deserts." (And what's more, am annoyed by those who do.) From context, I thought "dessert" made more sense as Michael used it, but concede that both words have a rationale.

[festivus]

1 hour ago, CherithCutestory said:

What love triangle? Chidi was never interested in her at all. And the explicitly stated point of the torture was that she would fall for Chidi, because he was sophisticated and she was surrounded by rubes, but he would never love her back.

That was never a genuine love triangle. It was designed to be part of the torture.

I agree. I don't care that they dropped Tahani out of either triangle because I think part of her story is all about finding out that she has friends who love her for exactly who she is. Even though she and Jason were seeing each other I think they bonded as friends and then last nights scene with her and Eleanor. But I pretty much always find friendship more interesting than romantic love anyway.

[cpcathy]

1 hour ago, Notwisconsin said:

That’s a wig. Ted Danson is bald. 

 

He's only bald in the back--everything except for the crown is his real hair.

[Mabinogia]

I think Tahani's love story is learning to love herself. For all her "I'm so great and wonderful" talk, I don't think she truly loves herself because she's spent her whole life seeing herself through her terrible parents eyes. Before she gets a proper love interest she needs to learn who Tahani really is. I do feel bad because Jason has Janet and Chidi and Eleanor have each other. Maybe she'll end up with Michael. lol Hell, even MIndy now has Derek.

[kirinan]

2 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Enough with the French and desert vs dessert!

Who deflected the forking shopping carts?

Yes to the first one, and to your question, I think it was Michael. I swear I saw a flash of a white head of hair reflected in one of the car windows, just for the briefest second, as whoever did it ran away. It works for me, so that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Edited February 2, 2018 by kirinan

[steff13]

2 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Who deflected the forking shopping carts?

I thought it was Michael.

[festivus]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I think Tahani's love story is learning to love herself. For all her "I'm so great and wonderful" talk, I don't think she truly loves herself because she's spent her whole life seeing herself through her terrible parents eyes. Before she gets a proper love interest she needs to learn who Tahani really is.

Oh absolutely. I think having real friends is going to help her with that.

[Lady Calypso]

So, my initial thoughts about this new place that Eleanor and the others got sent to was that it's more of a simulation and less like actual Earth. I've been thinking about the Chidi and Eleanor language barrier that isn't, and I can't imagine Michael Shur forgetting that Chidi should not only be speaking French, but at least have an accent if he was speaking English. This show has been very smart in subtle details, so the fact that Chidi and Eleanor can communicate through the same language seems more planned than a mistake. Perhaps Michael made a little change that allowed all four to still understand each other and speak English. I think that even goes with Eleanor's abrupt change of heart from her near death experience. If the afterlife was completely erased and (Hydro)Gen and Michael actually sent them back to Earth from the moment they were about to die, wouldn't the old Eleanor have brushed it off? It does seem like the experiences that Eleanor had in the afterlife subconsciously carried through with her to this new place. 

Or, maybe this is actual Earth and maybe Eleanor's experiences from the afterlife did carry through with her back to Earth. But since this is proven to be a test for the four to pass in order to get to the Good Place, they're still clearly dead, right? It's not like Michael will just leave them living. Plus, he even said it would take between a month and ten million years. 

I do wonder why Gen and Michael were so worried about sending these four through this new place. It sounds like there have been complications in the past. 

I'm excited for season 3 to start because we'll get to see what Chidi, Tahani, and Jason's lives have been like in this new Earth, where they didn't die. I wonder how much each of them have changed. I don't think they'll be as obvious as Eleanor's change, but I'm excited to see the little changes that transpire. Will Chidi be making quicker decisions? Will Tahani not be vying for the attention of her parents? Will Jason have more impulse control? 

It was funny to see, when Michael got back from being a bartender for Eleanor, he had to push away Chidi's ever growing tickets. 

I'm going to enjoy rewatching the season in its entirety. 

Also, Hot Diggity Dog may be my new favourite saying for 2018.   

[Mabinogia]

I can accept that Chidi should possibly have a French accent but I don't think he'd actually be lecturing in French at an English speaking school. Just because he speaks French and it is his native language doesn't mean he never spoke in English in his professional life. Working in Australia he probably spoke English far more often than French. He spoke it with his cowboy boot wearing friend, he spoke it with that chick he was in bed with, so why wouldn't he be lecturing in English? 

[Duke2801]

17 hours ago, GaT said:

I'm starting to wonder where this show can go. Yes, we can do this "alive again" thing for all the characters, but where do they go from there? How long can they keep them in the medium place & keep the show interesting? Once they get to the Good Place, what will happen then? This is starting to seem like a show with a limited life.

With such great characters and top-notch writers, I could not disagree more.  If the show has taught us anything, it is to "expect the unexpected."  Even if they end up in the Good Place, I feel confident they will keep it fresh and funny.  

Now, the waiting begins.... 

[wilnil]

4 hours ago, DrScottie said:

It was Sting's Desert Rosé. A play on moral desert, the song Desert Rose by Sting, Rosé wine, and probably the deserts all around Arizona.

And maybe a further clue that this is a simulated "Earth," since it's reminiscent of all the pun-based shop names in Michael's neighborhood.

As for who saved Eleanor from the shopping carts, I couldn't see enough of her rescuer to recognize, but I assumed it was Michael (it definitely didn't look like Judge Gen).

[Peace 47]

I adore this show.  The Sam Malone scene was epic, but what made it really special was Ted Danson’s acting when Michael was listening to Eleanor share the Kangaroo Jack plot, she wonders why she bothered to relay that story, and Michael just looks completely 1000% endeared to her as he kind of chuckles and says he has no idea.  Very sweet moment.

My other favorite moment was when Chidi had his realization and you just knew he was going over to kiss Eleanor.  It was such a lovely breakthrough for him.  

My other, other favorite moment was actually just a few seconds.  I liked the camaraderie of Janet and Michael sitting there, pouring over the ticker tape, exchanging words minimally, but still conveying that they were 100% united in their cause.  I tangentially wonder why the bureaucracy of the afterlife is set in the 1940s.

I have no idea where the show is going or what happens next. This show is way too smart for me (in the best way possible).

Edited February 2, 2018 by Peace 47

[possibilities]

I didn't think they were sent back to improve. I thought they were sent back to see if they had already improved. So they SHOULD behave differently than they would have before.

I agree it's a simulation, though.

I thought Eleanor gave up because she saw that life is unjust, and bad things happen even if you're good, so it seemed futile. She knows the difference between right and wrong, now. And she wants to be good and do good. But she felt like she was going against the tide, and started to doubt herself. Surrounding herself with others who also share the value of being or doing good is in itself a moral choice-- she chose to do the right thing by supporting herself to do/be good, as soon as she realized it was a possibility.

I swear I remember them specifically referencing cake during the "deserts" conversation. I think it amounts to the same thing either way. Gen wants them to do good because they are good, not because they think they will get a prize for it. Virtue as its own reward is what they're going for, vs. operant conditioning leading to a superficial compliance motivated by a desire for personal material gain. Desert as the earning of a reward, dessert being the reward you earned.

[meep.meep]

3 hours ago, kirinan said:

Yes to the first one, and to your question, I think it was Michael. I swear I saw a flash of a white head of hair reflected in one of the car windows, just for the briefest second, as whoever did it ran away. It works for me, so that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I did not see white hair, but I saw a white shirt with the head down.  So, it could have been Chidi or Jason.  Maybe they all have to give each other the push to get better.

Where are all those folks who would analyze every frame of Lost?  I guess we have 9 months.

[BabyVegas]

So because I am avoiding other work, I actually did go back frame by frame and whoever pushed Eleanor out of the way most definitely had white hair. I didn't think it looked like Danson at first, but I'm assuming that's because they used a stunt double. 

Also, they made a big deal about how everybody on Team Cockroach improved each other, Michael said they needed a push, Gen said that what they were doing set a very dangerous precedent, and in a prior episode Michael said that in every reboot Eleanor always found Chidi and tried to improve herself. So I'm guessing that this is a simulated Earth reboot to see, if they were able to get that push by finding each other on Earth, whether they can improve on "Earth" by finding each other but without the knowledge about the afterlife/possible rewards in the afterlife.

I so can't wait 9 months to see more episodes. I know the limited episode run means each episode is tighter and always advances the plot, but I'm gonna miss it so much while it's on hiatus! 

[arc]

Here are some freeze frames from Eleanor's google search: 

[AnnaRose]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I can accept that Chidi should possibly have a French accent but I don't think he'd actually be lecturing in French at an English speaking school. Just because he speaks French and it is his native language doesn't mean he never spoke in English in his professional life. Working in Australia he probably spoke English far more often than French. He spoke it with his cowboy boot wearing friend, he spoke it with that chick he was in bed with, so why wouldn't he be lecturing in English? 

Yes, I thought it was perfectly normal for Chidi to be fluent in English since he was teaching at a university in Australia.   I expected a bit of an accent, but his lack of one didn't bother me at all.

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

I did not see white hair, but I saw a white shirt with the head down.  So, it could have been Chidi or Jason.  Maybe they all have to give each other the push to get better.

I saw white hair... but I will have to watch again to make sure.

31 minutes ago, BabyVegas said:

So because I am avoiding other work, I actually did go back frame by frame and whoever pushed Eleanor out of the way most definitely had white hair. I didn't think it looked like Danson at first, but I'm assuming that's because they used a stunt double.

I thought the same thing about the stunt double.  The hair didn't look quite right - it was such a quick flash - and at that point, I don't think they wanted to make it too obvious to the viewers that Micheal was on 'earth', so they could surprise us later with the bar scene.

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I didn't think they were sent back to improve. I thought they were sent back to see if they had already improved. So they SHOULD behave differently than they would have before.

I agree it's a simulation, though.

I thought Eleanor gave up because she saw that life is unjust, and bad things happen even if you're good, so it seemed futile. She knows the difference between right and wrong, now. And she wants to be good and do good. But she felt like she was going against the tide, and started to doubt herself. Surrounding herself with others who also share the value of being or doing good is in itself a moral choice-- she chose to do the right thing by supporting herself to do/be good, as soon as she realized it was a possibility.

I swear I remember them specifically referencing cake during the "deserts" conversation. I think it amounts to the same thing either way. Gen wants them to do good because they are good, not because they think they will get a prize for it. Virtue as its own reward is what they're going for, vs. operant conditioning leading to a superficial compliance motivated by a desire for personal material gain. Desert as the earning of a reward, dessert being the reward you earned.

I liked your post, and the bolded is a very good point.  I think you're right that they did bring whatever improvements they made with them on a subconscious level at least.

[Texasmom1970]

It could happen every episode. I never get tired of Jason calling shotgun, he is hilarious!

[BobH]

With a day to think about it and get a re-watch in, I'm more positively disposed towards the episode. It still suffers a bit because it follows what might be the three best half-hours of new TV I've seen in years, and has so little interaction among the main cast. The creators have definitely earned enough credit that I'm confident they can either make the Team Cockroach reunites on Earth (real or simulated) concept work, or have a radically different concept that this bridges towards in mind. I just wish it was a mid-season cliffhanger with a continuation coming in a month, not a season finale with eight months to go (at least they gave us the mercy of an early renewal, instead of leaving it up in the air if this was the series finale).

I am looking forward to seeing how Michael saved the others, and what tangents their lives took. I kept looking at the background stuff like the TVs in the bar to see if there was some clue about what the others were up to.

[SomeTameGazelle]

2 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I did not see white hair, but I saw a white shirt with the head down.  So, it could have been Chidi or Jason.  

I slowed it down enough to see white hair, white skin, and a general impression of not someone exceptionally youthful. 

[SopranoKris]

I feel that the actual underlying story is going to be Michael has been trying to redeem himself for eons and he has to find the 4 right souls to accomplish it to move forward into the "Good Place"

[wingster55]

23 hours ago, whiporee said:

Tahani had feelings for Chidi for like five minutes in one episode in S1, and that only came because she as trying to find a justification why her version of the good place sucked. 

I think the argument for a WOC would be much more relevant from Real Eleanor, if she wasn't, you know, a demon. 

I thought it was great, but mostly I just smiled at how easily Ted Danson fit right back into that mode, with the towel flipped over his shoulder and wiping the glasses. The AV Club review called it the kind of thing you didn't now how much you missed, and that's the way it felt. 

Well, there was the episode they bonded over art, episode 10 IIRC where she (and Eleanor) claimed to have feelings for Chidi, and it came up again in the finale. This season they took away that and the brief friendship. Instead of building it this season they just dropped it. 

 

11 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

She's not a woman (not trying to undercut your comment, but I couldn't resist.)

Heh, but I meant Eleanor. 

[Dowel Jones]

I would like to know how a a string of grocery carts could get up that kind of momentum in a flat and level parking lot.  Maybe she was celestially destined to be run over, and Michael/notMichael saved her, altering the course of the world somewhere down the line (presumably before the next season).

Random thought:  The commuter airline that carries government employees from Las Vegas to Groom Lake, aka Area 51, is called Janet Airlines.

[bros402]

With Chidi - he was teaching in Australia. He has to know English. Some people pick up new languages very easily - he could've watched a bunch of Seinfeld and learned English that way. Sometimes, people are relatively accentless.

[Ceindreadh]

I feel a bit cheated by this episode, especially with it being the season finale. 

Mainly because it was so focused ona single character. I wish they’d managed to make it a double length ep so we could at least have checked in on what situations the other three had ended up in when they didn’t die as expected. 

This would have been fine as a penultimate episode or mid season finale but if it’s the last we’re going to see of these characters until next season, I would have liked a more even balance of screen time. 

[Affogato]

It is brilliant that this episode stops with one foot in the air.  it is a short season but not abbreviated.

I saw white hair diverting the shopping carts and asumed Michael. It is probably a simulation, Michael providing the change in the program. As the programmer on this project he likely knocks Chidi out of the way of the air conditioner, and so on. Secretly drills a hole in Jason’s safe  

I think the thing that changes Chidi may be teaching, interacting with people. The thing that has changed Chidi. It will force decisions for others. I don’t remember where he was working at the time of his death  and I don’ t know if the language issue is important. If it is it may be part of how they figure out it isn’t real life they are living. 

How did Eleanor afford a plane ticket to Australia? How did her toaster not set off fire alarms with repeated pizza toastings?

just deserts is just a somewhat archaic phrase with pun potential. If envy can be a taco sauce....

All of them were learning to be better for the carrot at the end of the stick. We should have seen this coming. 

[Isazouzi]

19 hours ago, Amarsir said:

 

 For example, blame them for us using "entrée" not to refer to the first part of the meal but the main course which would arrive via a grand entrance.) 
 

 

We always get blamed for everything!^^

Here's Eleanor's savior : clearly a stunt double supposed to be Michael.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Isazouzi

[DrSpaceman73]

I am literally being the devil's advocate when saying  this, its not just a euphemism this time. 

I do have to wonder if they change and learn all these things AFTER they die, what is the point in terms of determining their fate?  Is it not too late then?  None of their newfound morals and ethics can be applied after they die to benefit those on earth, so does it not make zero difference in the system they have set up.   

I am sure Chidi could give me a 3 hour lecture on that question. 

[Mabinogia]

I LOVED the first part of this ep, when they were still with the Judge. I found it lagging once it was all Eleanor. Not because I don't care for Eleanor, I love her, but because 1) I missed her interacting with the others and 2) I hate her "friends" and felt there was way too much of them. 

It also made me sad watching her trying so hard to be better and basically getting shit on for it. That was way to real for me. :S

But I am excited about how this little experiment will go and what will come next. This show seriously always keeps me guessing, and I love it. This is one of the few shows I don't even want to see the episode title for because I want to go in completely unaware of what to expect. 

[WAnglais1]

Long time viewer, first time poster.

The Sting's Desert Rose Bar scene was the most brilliant bit of television I've seen in a long time. 

I know Danson played Sam for 148 seasons on "Cheers," but the ease at which he dropped back into it was astounding. The towel over his shoulder, using the one hand to casually wipe his nose. The rhythm to his speech. The best.

Quote

It also made me sad watching her trying so hard to be better and basically getting shit on for it. That was way to real for me. :S

I think the point of that is you do good things for the sake of the things. Not for "moral dessert." That's also Tahani's failing. She does good things, but only to name drop or impress her parents. 

Now, we have to wait how long for S3? Come on, NBC...you'd give a revival of "Just Shoot Me" 22 episodes...why can't we have that here?

Edited February 3, 2018 by WAnglais1
Adding quote.

[Loandbehold]

17 minutes ago, WAnglais1 said:

Now, we have to wait how long for S3? Come on, NBC...you'd give a revival of "Just Shoot Me" 22 episodes...why can't we have that here?

9 months or so. The creator (Mike Shur), Danson, and Bell all want the 13-episode seasons. 

[chitowngirl]

As much as I would like more episodes, a tight 13 episode season is nice. There are no “filler” episodes. Every scene counts and stories aren’t dragged out to death. Isn’t this format closer to English TV?

[seacliffsal]

The highlight of the episode was when Ted Danson threw the bar towel over his shoulder.  That was EVERYTHING!

Otherwise I was surprised by how uninterested I was in the story line.  I like the ensemble more than the individuals.

[Winston Wolfe]

On 2/1/2018 at 10:20 PM, wingster55 said:

It's annoying that they essentially dropped the WOC from the s1 triangle and made it just the white woman's love story. I'm actually quite angry about this. 

I know what you mean, but hopefully color really doesn't matter in the afterlife.  In other news, this show is so GOOD it literally makes me hug myself.

[Jamoche]

Of all the words they could've used in that context, they picked "desert" so we'd all hear it both ways. Except Jason. He's thinking about pie.

[chitowngirl]

6 minutes ago, Jamoche said:

Of all the words they could've used in that context, they picked "desert" so we'd all hear it both ways. Except Jason. He's thinking about pie.

Well who doesn’t think of pie!

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

2) I hate her "friends" and felt there was way too much of them. 

Who played the friend with the eyebrows? I've seen the actress lately and enjoyed her in whatever that was.

[DrScottie]

39 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Who played the friend with the eyebrows? I've seen the actress lately and enjoyed her in whatever that was.

Here are Eleanor's roommates:

Angela Trimbur - Madison (The Dress Bitch)
Meryl Hathaway - Brittany 

[J-Man]

21 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, Hot Diggity Dog may be my new favourite saying for 2018.

Well, not exactly "new."

[Rumsy4]

On 2/2/2018 at 12:45 AM, whiporee said:

On 2/1/2018 at 10:20 PM, wingster55 said:

It's annoying that they essentially dropped the WOC from the s1 triangle and made it just the white woman's love story.

Tahani had feelings for Chidi for like five minutes in one episode in S1, and that only came because she as trying to find a justification why her version of the good place sucked. 

I doubt Tahani was ever really in love--either in real life or the afterlife. In S1, it was more about her thinking Chidi was in love with her, and in S2, she could barely admit to sleeping with Jason. 

I don't think all is lost for her however. If Team Cockroach manages to change the Afterlife judging system, she may find her soulmate eventually.

4 hours ago, WAnglais1 said:

I think the point of that is you do good things for the sake of the things. Not for "moral dessert." 

You missed the whole desert/dessert debate. lol 

I wonder if Judge Gen will figure out that Michael sneaked off to push Eleanor towards Chidi and cancel the experiment. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Rumsy4

[secnarf]

25 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I wonder if Judge Gen will figure out that Michael sneaked off to push Eleanor towards Chidi and cancel the experiment. 

Michael could argue it doesn't really matter - as long as she changed and became a better person without the promise of a reward.

[Notwisconsin]

Several people complained that they only focused on Elanor, but you have to remember that this is a half hour show and they only had about 12 minutes to do  her story. There Just wasn't TIME. if you notice there's usually only time for one or two real jokes per episode.

As to the baldness thing, There was a bunch of people back during the '80s putting posters of TV and movie stars who were really bald and "outing" them. At the time, it was popular among Gays to out people they thought were gay, including quite a few where weren't. This was a parody of that. Danson was caught out (not as gay, but having a wig) and took it with grace.

If he can you can.

[amaranta]

11 minutes ago, Notwisconsin said:

This was a parody of that. Danson was caught out (not as gay, but having a wig) and took it with grace.

Hell, there's an episode of Cheers where Sam and Carla are exchanging deep, dark secrets and Sam's is that he flips off the partial toupee covering his bald spot. Filming that before a live studio audience (who went nuts) and then for broadcast to millions is the definition of taking it with grace.  And good humor, perspective, etc.  I love Ted Danson.

The Sam Malone towel toss was everything.

I liked the episode; in fact I'm beginning to think they can't do a bad one.  But I liked it in an "isn't this odd?" sort of way.  A good kind of odd though.

And now I wait nine months to see how and when Team Cockroach gets back together.

[Winston Wolfe]

5 hours ago, WAnglais1 said:

I think the point of that is you do good things for the sake of the things. Not for "moral dessert." That's also Tahani's failing. She does good things, but only to name drop or impress her parents. 

A lot of folks would probably take a pass on the moral dessert and settle for not just getting shit (or shat?) on, I think.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Winston Wolfe

[Milburn Stone]

3 hours ago, DrScottie said:

Angela Trimbur - Madison (The Dress Bitch)

That's the one. And now I know where I've seen her (thanks to the imdb). In One Mississippi. She played a girl who dated Tig but pretended to be straight any time people were around. She made an impression on me in that show, too.