S34.E04: The Tables Have Turned

[millennium]

I guess I'm in the minority because I didn't care for the tribal council all that much.   It was far too confusing trying to reconcile the idea that they were all originally gunning for Sandra but then JT tells Brad he's the target when everyone else is voting Sierra but apparently JT also disclosed it was Sierra but Tai has an idol and they're all whispering like gossipy mean girls ... wtf?

I thought the challenges were pretty tedious as well.

[ghoulina]

Wow. Well, that was likely either an episode you loved or you hated, depending on who you were rooting for. My 7-year-old son inexplicably loves Tai, so he was pretty jazzed. But I was screaming at my TV and moaning and wailing the demise of Malcolm. 

It's hard to really comment on what went down because it was so chaotic and confusing. Most of what was discussed at TC (that we saw, I know these go on for hours) was whispered, so I feel like we viewers were left largely in the dark as to what went down. I do wish that the Red tribe hadn't acted so smug about their "strong six" and went ahead and accepted Hali's vote and her idea to oust Culpepper. I actually have never had a problem with Brad, and I think he's playing a pretty good game thus far. But I adore Malcolm, so I would have preferred to keep him safe. 

What I DO know is that JT straight up told Brad they were planning to vote out Sierra. The question is why? Again, that TC was so hard to follow. Did JT really betray his new tribe by trying to help his old buddies? Or did he just make another colossally stupid move like he did on Heroes vs. Villains? I tend to lean towards the latter, but who freaking knows. Either way, it sucked for Malcolm and the Red tribe (sorry, they switch so often I barely bother to learn the names) played that very well for the perceived underdogs. 

I think the Blue tribe could have actually avoided TC altogether if they'd had Michaeala do the final ball for the maze, instead of Varner. It's not that Varner is bad, but Michaela is BADASS at just about everything, and we saw her rock very similar challenges on her previous season. It didn't seem like they utilized her at all in that challenge and I wondered why. 

What I was REALLY hoping would happen is that Blue would sneakily get Red to help them vote off Sandra. I've had quite enough of her. My 8-year-old doesn't even know her name. I said something about her and he was all, "who?" and I said, "The lady in the red shirt" - "Oh, you mean The Queen?" Just no. 

I was relieved to see the RC passed without anyone getting seriously injured. I always hate those damned blindfold challenges. 

[Bryce Lynch]

34 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Not the same.  This is supposed to be a show about random ordinary people, set down on an island together.  They may be smart or good at athletics like Malcomb, but not professional.  Culpepper and his like can come out to play on "Celebrity Survivor," which I wont be watching.

1) Aren't the lawyers, doctors, business executives, scientists, etc. who get cast, "professional" smart people?  Should they only cast people with no more than a 100 IQs, high school educations and average size, strength, speed and coordination?  I think that would be boring to the point of being unwatchable. 

2) Brad was a defensive tackle, not a quarterback or professional carnival game player, whose job required being able to throw things accurately.  His job was to knock the accurate throwing guys on their butts.  

3) I don't think former pro-athletes have generally done all that well on Survivor.  They have targets on their backs, they are generally in their mid to late 40s, so their athletic prowess has faded somewhat, and the physical aspect is not the most important part of the game.  Culpepper is 47.  If I were choosing sides, I'd probably take the 20 something guy who was a good athlete in high school but never played any college or pro ball, over a middle aged former pro athlete.  

4) I am a football fan, but I never heard of Culpepper before Survivor, so I don't see him as a big celebrity.  That said, I don't mind an occasional celebrity thrown into the mix.  

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Wow. Well, that was likely either an episode you loved or you hated, depending on who you were rooting for. My 7-year-old son inexplicably loves Tai, so he was pretty jazzed. But I was screaming at my TV and moaning and wailing the demise of Malcolm. 

It's hard to really comment on what went down because it was so chaotic and confusing. Most of what was discussed at TC (that we saw, I know these go on for hours) was whispered, so I feel like we viewers were left largely in the dark as to what went down. I do wish that the Red tribe hadn't acted so smug about their "strong six" and went ahead and accepted Hali's vote and her idea to oust Culpepper. I actually have never had a problem with Brad, and I think he's playing a pretty good game thus far. But I adore Malcolm, so I would have preferred to keep him safe. 

What I DO know is that JT straight up told Brad they were planning to vote out Sierra. The question is why? Again, that TC was so hard to follow. Did JT really betray his new tribe by trying to help his old buddies? Or did he just make another colossally stupid move like he did on Heroes vs. Villains? I tend to lean towards the latter, but who freaking knows. Either way, it sucked for Malcolm and the Red tribe (sorry, they switch so often I barely bother to learn the names) played that very well for the perceived underdogs. 

I think the Blue tribe could have actually avoided TC altogether if they'd had Michaeala do the final ball for the maze, instead of Varner. It's not that Varner is bad, but Michaela is BADASS at just about everything, and we saw her rock very similar challenges on her previous season. It didn't seem like they utilized her at all in that challenge and I wondered why. 

What I was REALLY hoping would happen is that Blue would sneakily get Red to help them vote off Sandra. I've had quite enough of her. My 8-year-old doesn't even know her name. I said something about her and he was all, "who?" and I said, "The lady in the red shirt" - "Oh, you mean The Queen?" Just no. 

I was relieved to see the RC passed without anyone getting seriously injured. I always hate those damned blindfold challenges. 

I love Michaela, and thought she would have been great at the ball maze, based upon her outstanding performance in a similar, two person, challenge last season.  However, she did get a shot at it. I think she was the second person to go.  The showed her starting, and didn't show her giving up, but clearly she didn't get a ball through  the maze.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't see how being an athlete gives you an advantage when someone like Ozzy comes along and blows everyone out of the water, pun intended, at physical challenges, and even Ozzy can't win the game.  

I love when the celebrities are randomly thrown in.  I loved when Taj from SWV came on.  I like when the basketball player came on Beauty vs Brawn vs Brain and of course they immediately had a basketball challenge.  I find that shit hysterical.  Time and time again we've watched people's 'dream' challenge backfire on them - it's part of the fun of the game.

Also, I'm sure there is pressure for the show to keep it interesting after 30+ seasons, so some wrenches are thrown into the game we know from Season 1 for fun.  It has to evolve in my opinion.  That's why year after year it's different and we're all still watching.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[neece26]

I hope that having sidebar conversations at TC isn't going to be the new thing going forward.   If JT didn't get to talk privately to Brad and he had to get his message to him verbally or non-verbally in front of everyone at TC, the drama most likely would have played out differently.  

Tai may be a nice guy but truly a terrible Survivor player.   I knew he wouldn't be able to keep that idol secret.   His game is basically taking orders from Brad.

Really wanted Sandra out last night but as always JT being the doofus that he is doesn't think things through.  So end result is he loses a strong teammate and friend Malcolm and the rest of his tribe thinks he's a snake.  Great move!

[Sugar]

Yea, I agree that pro athletes don't necessarily have an advantage - they are all retired and past their prime. Sure, they may have that natural athletic gene that makes them "good" at just about anything physical, but there are so many other factors involved in Survivor challenges. They take ideas from popular sport but add a bunch of other elements. And ditto that I'd rather have a young physically fit person on my team than a 45+ guy who used to be good at throwing a ball/bumping into things. I mean, if it's Gary the Landscaper vs. Ozzy or JT, Id pick the latter every time.
Maybe my memory needs refreshing, but didn't Jeff Kent totally suck at some of the challenges everyone thought he'd ace? Anyone remember Olympian Crystal from Gabon and her legendary challenge prowess? Lol.

[seacliffsal]

The first thing that bothered me about that tribal was Debbie calling out JT in response to one of Jeff's questions-'well Jeff, there's one of us over there in the person of JT.'  Just shut up.  I think that may have been the catalyst for the crazy that then ensued as JT was then trying to prove his loyalty to both teams.  The second thing that REALLY bothered me was Sierra's kiss of death to Malcolm.  That was such a shrewish thing to do-way to really rub it in someone's face that they just lost the game.  Her self-satisfaction was high (not that I blame her as she was giddy at being saved), but I felt that was just an example of kicking someone while they are down.  

The players may be too quick to try to form alliances as they think that is the only way to play.  Malcolm's alliance with JT fell apart, and I think JT's standing with his current tribe was really hurt by his actions, but also by Debbie's statement at the beginning of TC.  

Brad seems to be targeting the strong players on his own team as well as others.  I would think he was trying to keep his team strong by voting out Malcolm, but I have to remember that he voted out Caleb from his team, who is a total NON-threat.  I think he is targeting strength so that he has a better chance at running the individual immunity challenges. 

[ghoulina]

9 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Dammit, Tai.  Why do people reveal their idols? And then just randomly give them away?

Normally I agree with this, but I thought Tai was wise to share his Idol in this instance. It kept his tribe from losing another member and it likely really ingratiated him with his tribemates. Granted, I don't think he'll ever be a power player and I don't care for him, but that might have kept him safe for a bit longer.

 

8 hours ago, Trick Question said:

Three mistakes and two semi-mistakes by Sandra's team...

1. Not having more belief that an idol could be in play.

I never understand why teams are always certain that other teams don't have an Idol. "No, no way. They don't have an Idol". Based on what???? 

 

7 hours ago, enlightenedbum said:

 

I feel like Malcolm joins the relatively small list of people the show itself screwed over,

 

I agree with you. I realize I may be biased because I really like Malcolm, but I definitely feel like this time, especially, the way he went out was no fault of his own. I think he had set himself up pretty well on his tribe and I would have liked to see him have the chance to keep working with them and see how things progressed without these weird shennanigans. 

 

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

 

I don't consent!  I like shows with only one challenge, so they have more time for things like camp life, arguing and strategizing.  Strategy done in muffled huddles at tribal is not fun to me. 

 

Preach! I watch with my sons (who are 7 and 8) and they've only seen the last few seasons. I love to regale them with tales of how the show used to me so heavy on the camp life stuff. I really miss those days. I like seeing them scramble BEFORE Tribal. And even strategizing aside, I just like the regular goings on - shelter building, food catching, interpersonal relationships, etc. The show feels too heavy handed these days. 

 

57 minutes ago, Haleth said:

The only thing I remember of him was that he was cute but not so smart.  He needed the much craftier Stephen to get them both to the end.  (I didn't watch Heroes v Villains, the only season I missed.)

I wouldn't say JT was smart, but I think he had a large part in getting to the end his first time around. I think he played a very subtle game and had a way with people, where they just adored him and never saw him as a threat. I don't think it was just his looks, but his affable personality. Just my personal opinion, but I thought he and Stephen were equally responsible for the moves they made to get to the end. I think there's a lot to be said for being a people person. He was so obviously a threat, to me, watching it - but it's like no one would ever consider getting rid of him. 

That said, I tend to think that way of playing would only work with certain people. It worked very well that season, but I don't know that it would work again. JT lacks an ability to adapt and change his gameplay. And he thinks because he won, he's a lot smarter than he is. Hence trying to pull off these big moves that totally backfire on him. 

[Alison]

I'm going to need a transcript and someone to draw out what happened during TC last night.

[Lamb18]

I'm watching the episode now and am entering comments before I read anyone else's, so please forgive me for repeating what any of you have already said. Ha, two-faced Debbie. I guess she's playing sort of smart, but I hope Hali isn't taken in. She's pretty smart. Well, Debbie, Hali has some options. She can find an idol, she can help the team win immunity...

Geez, these rewards! What is this, Survivor Club Med? It's like play-time camping. There goes Ozzie Longstocking. Now it looks like Survivor Olympics with the balance beam. Go Malcolm!!! Looks like no coffee for Tai's tribe. Actually Troyzan blew it. You can always tell when a team or individual is going to win because the music gathers itself up into a triumphal crescendo. At least it's only a Reward challenge, not Immunity.

Poor stingray. At least it's not a goat. Ha Sandra, she thinks no one thinks she's dangerous. Only 13 minutes in and we're already at Immunity? There must be some heavy-duty conspiring going on later. Oh, great a blind-folded challenge.  Go, Nuku!! Come on, Varner! Oh no, Mana and Nuku to Tribal. Interesting, two groups, one person.

You can only have this kind of tribal with returning contestants. New people wouldn't know each other well enough. Oh come on guys, Sandra, not Malcolm!! I wonder where everyone else is while Tai is digging. Oh, Tai, why did you say you have in idol? It's like he wants to be the popular one.

Tribal is interesting - what is all this whispering??Jeff needs to control this tribal, but he's just loving it!!! I imagine he can't hear anything anyone's saying. Debbie, I don't think carrier pigeons is the image you're going for. They have a destination and return home.  Varner, ha: "If you pull out an idol, I will soil myself." Oh no, Malcolm!!!

I didn't really like this kind of tribal. I think Jeff should have cut them off once they started wandering around whispering to each other. He should be able to hear everything that's being said. But since it's pre-jury it probably doesn't matter as much. Once there's a jury, the jurists need to hear everything.

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, Alison said:

I'm going to need a transcript and someone to draw out what happened during TC last night.

Coming up with a transcript would be a difficult task.  It would have a lot of "crosstalk", "inaudible", "whispering".  There were so many different conversations going on at the same time, it would be hard to put on paper.  

[laurakaye]

9 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

Are there monkeys in this location? Because I really need one to swoop in and rip those freakish eyebrows off Sierra's face. I can't have peace in my soul until they're gone. 

+++++++1000000, because not only are they tattooed on, they go straight up to her forehead, like the Joker.  They make her look insane.  Plus, with that Malcolm kiss-off, I hate all of her now, not just her stupid eyebrows.

 

Observations:

Debbie, in all of her TH, sits and poses oddly, like she thinks she is being photographed for a fashion magazine.  Since one of her past 396 occupations was indeed "model," I guess it makes sense, but it's bizarre.  Also weird was during TC, she looked like she was totally making out with Brad when she got up to whisper to him.  I can't wait for her to blow her top next week.  Tai's right, she is scary.

Varner saying "if you play an idol I will soil myself" made me laugh/snort to the point of waking my sleeping husband.

Malcolm was CRUSHED to leave the game.  That was so hard to watch.  

 

Questions (I have many, and I am sorry):

Why was Sandra so insistent at sending Sierra home?  I'm not understanding the reasons why Sandra sees her as a powerhouse.  Also, why the crap did Sandra INSIST that the other team didn't have an idol?  Where's the logic in that?  She had absolutely no way to know.

 

JT....okay, let me see if I have this straight, because I will obsess about it in my own head until I understand...he was trying to play good ol' boy for both tribes, yes?  He informed Culpepper that his team was voting out Sierra in order to stay good with Brad, and wanted Brad's tribe to vote out Sandra, keeping his word good with Malcolm.  But why inform Culpepper at all?  If that team has an idol, and Brad trusts JT, then JT's admission to Brad was sure to backfire, unless JT really and truly trusted that Brad's tribe would target Sandra.  I was super confused at JT's sadface after Malcolm went home.  So JT just burned his bridge with his current tribe, and Brad burned JT's other bridge by voting out JT's right-hand man.  How did Brad know that JT and Malcolm were that tight?

 

For all the scrambling, whispering, double-talk, and last-minute maneuvering, I found it unbelievable that the votes were that clear-cut...Sierra and Malcolm, period.  Not one person got the plans confused?  And why was Sandra going to each person in her tribe and saying that Hali wanted Culpepper out because he's strong and he doesn't have an idol...is that what Hali told her?  What good does it do for Sandra to tell her tribe to vote Brad, but then also say, "stick to the plan?"  She seemed equally insistent on both counts.

 

Even though I am still confused, I loved it.  It's been awhile since a Survivor TC had me this perplexed.

[mojoween]

I don't normally seek out contestant interviews but I am going to find Malcolm's because I am interested to hear what he has to say especially now that he has watched it.  I mean his tweet last night was something like "what the fu" but I bet he had something a little more elaborate to say than that.

What the fu does work though because for real.  He had tears in his exit comments, right? I didn't imagine that?

And I don't blame him.  I wonder if he still needs comforting?  Asking for a friend.

[cooksdelight]

@penbrat, I like Culpepper also. Might be because my fiance is a former athlete, playing both football and basketball....very well. It's the one person he recognizes when he watches the show with me.  He also roots for Varner, being a fellow North Carolinian, and a UNC grad. 

[Eolivet]

In retrospect (easy to say now), it's sort of obvious Malcolm was getting voted out. He had such a sweetheart edit, and this isn't season 10. It actually reminded me of Caleb's edit two seasons ago, where it was like "Who is this guy? He's so charming and nice!"

Malcolm and Caleb 1.0's edits now remind me of the beautiful, tragic ingenue who dies too soon (like Beth in Little Women).

[Lamima]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't see how being an athlete gives you an advantage when someone like Ozzy comes along and blows everyone out of the water, pun intended, at physical challenges, and even Ozzy can't win the game.  

I love when the celebrities are randomly thrown in.  I loved when Taj from SWV came on.  I like when the basketball player came on Beauty vs Brawn vs Brain and of course they immediately had a basketball challenge.  I find that shit hysterical.  Time and time again we've watched people's 'dream' challenge backfire on them - it's part of the fun of the game.

Also, I'm sure there is pressure for the show to keep it interesting after 30+ seasons, so some wrenches are thrown into the game we know from Season 1 for fun.  It has to evolve in my opinion.  That's why year after year it's different and we're all still watching.

Same with Joe. He's a challenge beast who could not win either of his seasons.

[TaraS1]

56 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

+++++++1000000, because not only are they tattooed on, they go straight up to her forehead, like the Joker.  They make her look insane.  Plus, with that Malcolm kiss-off, I hate all of her now, not just her stupid eyebrows.

Agreed 100%.  She was already on my shitlist because of those brows (which, yes, totally make her look insane), but gleefully kissing Malcolm was a dick move IMO.  He was devastated, keep your face out of his, Sierra.

I want her and Culpepper gone next.  I mean, the man appears to be wearing some type of red corduroy pants.  That alone should get him the boot.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

Why was Sandra so insistent at sending Sierra home?  I'm not understanding the reasons why Sandra sees her as a powerhouse.  Also, why the crap did Sandra INSIST that the other team didn't have an idol?  Where's the logic in that?  She had absolutely no way to know.

It was odd. It made me wonder if something happened during the off-season (I know these people often hang out/talk in real life) that made her (them) see Sierra that way. 

[Giesela]

3 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I'm not really sure why people are using this TC as an example of how bad Sandra's strategy is. Her strategy was the same strategy as her entire tribe, they had ALL discussed the vote beforehand and agreed on what to do. (As evidenced by how many times people said to stick to the original plan.) Yes, she made a whispered comment about the other tribe not having an idol when Michaela started to worry but it's obviously not something she or her tribe dismissed. They even said they had discussed beforehand the scenarios of every other person on the other tribe having an idol. 

 

She was calling all the shots, convinced everyone to follow her plan, said there was no idol,had the opportunities to whisper and conspire along with everyone, and got one of her tribe voted out. She wanted Sierra gone and she is still there.    That JT was not in her alliance is moot.  You still want number and challenge wins  SHE LOST that TC and got Malcom sent home because if she was as good as you say she is someone from the other team would have gone home.   She was the leader, it was her plan and she takes responsibility for the loss.  

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't consent!  I like shows with only one challenge, so they have more time for things like camp life, arguing and strategizing.  Strategy done in muffled huddles at tribal is not fun to me. 

 

This.  I get wine or tea or whaever during challenges.  Just a lot of Jeff yelling and making stupid comments  It can be interesting to see who are challenge monsters but seeing as how it never seems to matter to tribe mates it hardly matters.  

I didn't like the huddle either.  How long did they get to do that?  I have to think Malcolm knew he was going home, indeed that everyone knew what everyone was writing down by the time they sat down and went to writing.  The votes were just too evenly split and why Malcolm?  Where did that come from?

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

Why was Sandra so insistent at sending Sierra home?  I'm not understanding the reasons why Sandra sees her as a powerhouse.  Also, why the crap did Sandra INSIST that the other team didn't have an idol?  Where's the logic in that?  She had absolutely no way to know.

JT....okay, let me see if I have this straight, because I will obsess about it in my own head until I understand...he was trying to play good ol' boy for both tribes, yes?  He informed Culpepper that his team was voting out Sierra in order to stay good with Brad, and wanted Brad's tribe to vote out Sandra, keeping his word good with Malcolm.  But why inform Culpepper at all?  If that team has an idol, and Brad trusts JT, then JT's admission to Brad was sure to backfire, unless JT really and truly trusted that Brad's tribe would target Sandra.  I was super confused at JT's sadface after Malcolm went home.  So JT just burned his bridge with his current tribe, and Brad burned JT's other bridge by voting out JT's right-hand man.  How did Brad know that JT and Malcolm were that tight?

For all the scrambling, whispering, double-talk, and last-minute maneuvering, I found it unbelievable that the votes were that clear-cut...Sierra and Malcolm, period.  Not one person got the plans confused?  And why was Sandra going to each person in her tribe and saying that Hali wanted Culpepper out because he's strong and he doesn't have an idol...is that what Hali told her?  What good does it do for Sandra to tell her tribe to vote Brad, but then also say, "stick to the plan?"  She seemed equally insistent on both counts.

Re picking Sierra, I wonder if Sandra has some insight into pre-game alliances.  Sierra and Brad seem really tight and it makes so much sense for Sierra to be in a hard core pre game alliance with someone like Brad.  She is miss I like men, the bigger and more sexist the better and is one of the women who seem to be able to take those relationships and use them to her advantage.  They think they are in charge and she lets them be only doing her thing when she wants something which she gets.  Didn't understand the idol thing either.  Unless Sandra is playing her own pre-game alliance strategy and actually wanted someone from her tribe gone.

I didn't understand the whole JT thing either.  How did he end up everybody on both tribes mad at him but still didn't go home?  I'm calling pre game stuff we aren't seeing. 

Agreed.

I am also calling shenanagins on Tai who was all I need an idol I need an Idol, an Idol will save me all this desperation, the location was totally hinky and then he gives it up like he was handing someone a piece of coconut.  Then he had no idea of who to give it to?  Wow, Culpepper is both in total charge and playing very deep and Tai is only surface.  

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think the fact that she won twice makes her the LEAST dangerous person there.  She is dangerous in that she can screw up other people's games, especially in her own tribe.  But there is no way the jury will vote her her 3rd million, especially with her arrogant "I'm the Queen!" act 

That's what everyone in HvV thought!

13 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Every year, someone is shown being the only person on their tribe thinking about the idol, the only person shown spending hours looking for the idol, and then finding it. Inevitable reaction: "This is fixed."  LOL.  "Fake news!"

They don't show people looking for idols unless they find them. There are people looking for idols besides the ones who find them, but Production thinks it's boring to show unfruitful idol hunts, which actually makes any idol finds look shadier than they probably actually are.

13 hours ago, Paws said:

Brad is an amazing player when he's not being a sexist jerk. And apparently he's a very liberal democrat, so depressing when even the liberal guys are sexist.

I know right!

I can't believe that fans still don't see what an amazing player Sandra is. It boggles my mind!

I wasn't a Malcom fan before, but I have been loving him this season so it was hard to watch him cry over being eliminated through really no fault of his own. But as long as it wasn't Sandra or Hali I didn't really care who got booted!

I love that Hali was trying to get Brad voted out. So beautiful! I really wish Sandra had taken Hali's info into account more. Although, it does look like they maybe thought about going for Brad, but they weren't going to get JT on board for it. And honestly if they had decided to go for that, JT likely would have told Brad and Brad wouldn't have went anyway.

Sierra kissing Malcom when the first vote for him was read was really unnecessary and gross. Such a dick move. I hate that she seems to be poised to go far. And yet the only reason she's still there is because Tai got lucky with finding an idol and then JT told Brad who to use it on.

Edited March 23, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[SuburbanHangSuite]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

My 8-year-old doesn't even know her name. I said something about her and he was all, "who?" and I said, "The lady in the red shirt" - "Oh, you mean The Queen?" Just no.

Ha!  "Just no," indeed.  I wish I could have an appreciation for Sandra's accomplishment but I really can't stand her.  She has these little moments when she'll temporarily win me over ("I'm against you, Russell.") but then I'm right back to hating her.  I REALLY found her arrogance at TC off-putting and I was on the edge of my seat waiting for the first Sandra vote to appear.  Oh well - - the anticipation continues. 

[Lamima]

So let's look at Sandra's second win... which also was a returning player season. They too probably thought nobody would give her another cool million. And she went with the hated Russell. Parvati was not as hated and should have won, but what do you know... they gave Sandra another cool million. So I am almost positive she'll go to the end again.... and win another cool million. Seems like show, and Jeffro, really want to say 'Sandra, the player who played three times and never got a vote'.... barf. What I am wondering is who is her Russell this time? Culfucker? Cray Cray Debbie? Sierra? Will Michaela blow her top, as she's prone to do, and become Sandra's Russell? Talk about boring...a repeat of S20. Boo!!!

Edited March 23, 2017 by Lamima

[uoflfan]

So sad, half of the pretty is gone. Please stay around, Ozzy.

[Wouldofshouldof]

2 hours ago, neece26 said:

I hope that having sidebar conversations at TC isn't going to be the new thing going forward

Since they totally broke convention in the TC by whispering to one another the way they did, I wish the tribe of five would have said to the tribe of 6 "We're voting Sandra out - now's your chance.  Vote with us."  The #1 thing I can't stand in Survivor competitors is smugness, so I was soooooooo hoping to see her go.

[vb68]

Quote

Brad seems to be targeting the strong players on his own team as well as others.  I would think he was trying to keep his team strong by voting out Malcolm, but I have to remember that he voted out Caleb from his team, who is a total NON-threat.  

Brad and Caleb were put together by a twist, but Caleb not being part of Brad's "team" seems like the reason Caleb got booted.  I essentially agree about him voting out other alpha males , though. 

 

Quote

What Sandra did in the past will hurt her, not help her as she is on everyone'sradar and nobody will want to give her a 3rd million.  She only won the 2nd time because of Russell Hantz.  The season SHE is the Russell Hantz.  

I strongly disagree here. No matter how the outcome goes for Sandra this time or how she's playing, she will never be on the level of Russell. For one thing, she actually does have a social game and understands that's a necessary component to win.  But there's like  a thousand other reasons too.

Edited March 23, 2017 by vb68

[iluvobx]

I can say that I was surprised at the tribal council twist.

Still don't get WHY they haven't booted Sandra yet.  She is way too damn cocky,  Once again, I will say, stupid people for not getting rid of the one you need to when you get the chance.

I still dislike Sandra, probably more now than ever and I didn't think that was possible.

[seasick]

I'm thinking that despite all the scramble, the vote went as originally planned?   I admit confusion.

I think Sierra was the original choice--and a wise choice by Sandra.  If Sandra had said  "we need to vote off the strong guys.. like Culpepper   it would have cued the nerves of her strong guys--JT and Malcolm.  

Sandra' s "well I know I'm not going home" at TC..  = (broadcasted) "I have an idol" so-- look elsewhere".  At first I thought "ohh you so cocky girl..dont' push it.  But now get it.  Yet I don't recall the other tribe blink an eye at that possibility.. IIRC.   So I'm assuming she was not in their plan.  

IDK.. I admit the whole strategic part of the game became a blur on this one.  I can see Brad targeting the strong guys--he booted Caleb and his weakling tribe is fine with it.   I agree with those who said Sandra isn't a threat yet to other tribes so why bother.

Agree that with 3 tribes they should have gone with one challenge and more look at camp life.  I miss the 'camp-life-survivor aspect,  but beyond that I want to see more personal interplay to explain relationships--not just the one or two trips to get water where a red herring is thrown.

On the fence with Sandra this season.  I was a big fan.  But she does shine best against a hate-able villain. Will Brad fill that bill?  I did actually root for her to be out this time--but I think she's in cahoots with the editors giving her the evil edit and she's playing along. It always comes to naught.

So far I've been sitting with my buddy Varner on this trip.  We're enjoying the fresh air,  the oppty to lose a few pounds, the summer-camp games and those Ker-aaazy kids!   He was having the time of his life at that tribal.   With so many 'threats' in the game I think he may go a long way and that's fine with me.  No sense getting into the middle of a fight that has nothing to do with you.  Lines are not drawn yet.  

Edited March 23, 2017 by seasick
typo

[SlackerInc]

That?  Was awesome.  I loved the twist!  Ever since voting alliances developed in the first season I've hoped for ways to get votes that aren't all planned out in advance.  This is a brilliant way to do it that I had never thought of before.

It now occurs to me that you could also do a tribe swap, then immediately have an immunity challenge, and go straight to a vote, no discussion allowed.  Someone might go out with like three votes.

I felt as I watched that JT would be foolish to simply go with his new tribe.  Not sure if he did!

How did both sides trust him to enter the whisper circles, anyway?  That should not fly.

"I didn't consent"?  Whoa.

[Tryangle]

14 hours ago, PaperTree said:

This times 1000.  I predict he will be a F3 goat.

Sadly, I agree Tai will once again make the end and then of course rack up zero votes from the jury.

That idol discovery was simply too convenient.

JT sunk his own ship, he could have simply sat down and minded his business. Worst case scenario Sandra (or possibly, Malcolm) goes home and he hasn't burned any bridges with his current tribe.

[butterbody]

14 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

JT loves making dumbass moves, apparently he hasn't learned from his idiocy the last time he played. Why in the hell are they keeping Sandra in?? Why when you have the chance to get rid of a 2x winner you don't vote for her. Ugh. See this is the reason why I'm not actively rooting for anyone this season so far. They all need to be voted off. Don't even get me started on Culpepper if I say what I want to say about him I'll get banned from this site.

I'm relatively new to survivor (only been watching a few seasons but IT IS EVERYTHING) 

But you have me super intrigued about Culpepper. What do I need to know? Can you say without getting banned? I thought it was great when he told Tai to take his time because he would make up for it, and then he did. Is he actually a tool? 

[Daisy]

14 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

How did JT win this show again?  He's terrible at it.  Hope he pays.  Boring Sierra sticks around just to follow Brad and company around and do nothing, Brad gets the arrogant smirk, and my beloved manbun (one of them) got the boot.  I hope Tai and JT pay for it.  

That TC was a little much for me.  

Southern Charm, and Stephen pulling an Amanda and unable to convince people why he should win.  (damnit. i hate working on Survivor nights, because i miss all the good snarks). 

Working with JT is death. He's the first player to play a perfect game. (no votes during the game, all votes in Tribal, only Sandra/Earl came close by (Sandra having no votes in game, all but 1 for the million, and Earl having 1 vote in game, and sweeping the Final votes). but his entire season was marked by playing with Stephen (who was playing whom) and in HvV it was clear as glass that JT had zero clue how to truly "play". (ie: giving Russell the idol, and basically blathering all the Heroes plans - basically torpedoing the entire Heroes tribe. (i mean they didn't help themselves, but JT didn't help). 

And he basically did it again - to the point Michalea and Varner knew specifically what happened. He wasn't subtle. 
Why Malcolm (a huge fan of the game ) would work with him knowing that is beyond me. And Malcolm was never in trouble. And I get that Sandra is seen as annoying and arrogant etc - but you also know what you get. For the most part - if you're in her group, she's not gonna target you. You literally could keep her until Merge, and bounce her out then, because she'd never see that one coming. All this cute "get her out by the merge" makes no sense. She's not 'dangerous' now. so I see why JT would go after her - but Malcolm had no reason to other than "oh dangerous 2x winner"

(and quite frankly JT is an idiot to take out Sandra. if It were me and I was a winner, (again) Sandra would be the wagon i'd hitch myself on. let her draw the fire (which she's doing) - but know who to pick off, because she's also teflon (as seen in 3 episodes, as her name comes up and then nothing), so it doesn't blow back on you.  I would rather go with Sandra as far as I could, (winner or not), then bounce her out in say final 7-6-5 because her winning an immunity is slim to none (and she'd tell you so). and she'd be getting rid of your biggest obstacles for you. way too early to pick Sandra off. I say this as a Sandra fan, though I understand why ppl don't like her)

Malcolm was a big Dummy. He's been in Hali's position twice. (he's only played twice right? ). He was the constant underdog in his original season, and double so in Caramoan. So why on earth did he think Hali would vote with his tribe, and she's the only person over there in Brad's tribe? That would should have been a Danger, Danger vibe in him. 

That was one crazy pants tribal though. 

[mojoween]

I still can't even with Sierra kissing Malcolm.  

Like a. that is sexual harassment, full stop, regardless of gender and b. if you wouldn't do it when you lose, you sure as fuck shouldn't do it when you win.

[fishcakes]

4 hours ago, laurakaye said:

And why was Sandra going to each person in her tribe and saying that Hali wanted Culpepper out because he's strong and he doesn't have an idol...is that what Hali told her?  What good does it do for Sandra to tell her tribe to vote Brad, but then also say, "stick to the plan?"  She seemed equally insistent on both counts.

Before all the crossing over and whispering started, Brad, in front of everyone, semi-threatened Hali about flipping and she responded with something like, "that's not a good way to get me on your side." Then Hali said that it was crazy to do anything but vote out a strong player. Sandra immediately picked up that Hali wanted Brad gone and was whispering it to everyone on her tribe. But why she and the rest then went back to "stick to the plan," especially when Hali came over and confirmed that she'd vote for Brad with them, I don't understand, unless they thought that JT was tipping off Brad that he was the target, that there was an HII, and that maybe Hali was setting them up. But they didn't appear to be thinking any of those things so who knows. We're probably going to need to wait for all the post-show interviews to understand what happened.

Now more than ever: Fuck you, Brad Culpepper.

I can't look at Sierra without seeing Uncle Leo after Elaine drew the fake eyebrows on him:

Edited March 23, 2017 by fishcakes

[ShowPolish]

20 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I still can't even with Sierra kissing Malcolm.  

Like a. that is sexual harassment, full stop, regardless of gender and b. if you wouldn't do it when you lose, you sure as fuck shouldn't do it when you win.

He said in his exit interview that they are friends outside of the show, and he grabbed her leg for support first.

Not a big deal

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Lamima said:

So let's look at Sandra's second win... which also was a returning player season. They too probably thought nobody would give her another cool million. And she went with the hated Russell. Parvati was not as hated and should have won, but what do you know... they gave Sandra another cool million. So I am almost positive she'll go to the end again.... and win another cool million. Seems like show, and Jeffro, really want to say 'Sandra, the player who played three times and never got a vote'.... barf. What I am wondering is who is her Russell this time? Culfucker? Cray Cray Debbie? Sierra? Will Michaela blow her top, as she's prone to do, and become Sandra's Russell? Talk about boring...a repeat of S20. Boo!!!

Sandra is already at a big disadvantage, having won twice.  The fact that there doesn't seem to be a Russell, or anyone nearly as detestable,  makes it even less likely she could win.  Sandra is the closest thing to being a Russell.  Other than her, Debbie might have the most potential, but I doubt she gets that far.  

[slowpoked]

3 hours ago, Lamima said:

Same with Joe. He's a challenge beast who could not win either of his seasons.

Don't forget one of the original challenge beasts - Terry Dietz. So close yet so far away.

I think being a challenge beast protects you from elimination, obviously, but it also makes you a target immediately once you lose (what happened to Joe in SC). Plus, it's widely understood that Survivor is more of a social game, than a physical game. Being a challenge beast sort of sacrifices your social game because hey, you don't have to worry about elimination as much as others to scramble, but from most Survivor players polled, they will still end up voting for the social player rather than the physical player in the end.

[Daisy]

I didn't take Sierra kissing Malcolm as a big thing. 

[iMonrey]

Well, I'm out. I'm not spending another 10 weeks watching Tai talk like a baby and find immunity idols lovingly placed by producers who favor him if I don't have Malcolm to look at anymore. Can't stand JT or Sandra or Brad either - don't really have anyone to root for.

Really wanted to smack Probst (of course, what else is new?) grinning from ear to ear at the chaos and marveling how he's never seen anything like it. As though they've ever pulled this bullshit before.

Bright side, I've freed up an extra hour each week to watch something else.

[mojoween]

24 minutes ago, ShowPolish said:

He said in his exit interview that they are friends outside of the show, and he grabbed her leg for support first.

Not a big deal

 

6 minutes ago, Daisy said:

I didn't take Sierra kissing Malcolm as a big thing. 

Ugh.  Well then why do *I* care if he doesn't?  Thanks for taking the bloom off the rose, Malcolm.

Whatever Sierra still sucks and her boots are stupid.

[Alison]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Sierra kissing Malcom when the first vote for him was read was really unnecessary and gross. Such a dick move. I hate that she seems to be poised to go far. And yet the only reason she's still there is because Tai got lucky with finding an idol and then JT told Brad who to use it on.

And because Natalie Anderson had to drop out last-minute. If Sierra makes it far, I won't be pleased.

[Mindthinkr]

13 hours ago, wings707 said:

They have Pepperidge Farm Milano cookies in Tahiti.  Well damn, I can't get their thin sliced bread in Phoenix, they probably have that, too.  AND Malcom is gone.  Not good.

Good eye Wings. I love their thin sliced bread. Agreed it can be hard to find but at 40 calories a slice...

What was with the coffee as a challenge reward? Seems as though they are giving them so much more to eat and drink than they have in previous seasons. (Or at least this early in the game)  I loved the challenges when they had to stand on those poles over water and the last person up there gets a peanut butter and jelly sandwich OR the auctions for food which were always amusing. 

[meep.meep]

To be fair, they haven't had a gross food challenge in many a season, either.

[laurakaye]

25 minutes ago, Daisy said:

I didn't take Sierra kissing Malcolm as a big thing. 

Perhaps not, but given how shocked and devastated Malcolm was, Sierra really didn't need to rub it in his face by giving him a goodbye smooch.  I just found it unnecessarily selfish on her part.  It was only by a series of bizarre events and a chaotic TC that Sierra stayed in the game, so it's not like she outsmarted him.  Brad was the one who saved her.  Plus, I don't remember her doing much of anything on her first season except to attach herself to a bunch of meatheads, so...I guess I just don't like her.  Or her scheming eyebrows.

Edited March 23, 2017 by laurakaye

[Daisy]

2 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Perhaps not, but given how shocked and devastated Malcolm was, Sierra really didn't need to rub it in his face by giving him a goodbye smooch.  I just found it unnecessarily selfish on her part.  It was only by a series of bizarre events and a chaotic TC that Sierra stayed in the game, so it's not like she outsmarted him.  Brad was the one who saved her.  Plus, I don't remember her doing much of anything on her first season except to attach herself to a bunch of meatheads, so...I guess I just don't like her.  Or her scheming eyebrows.

To be fair, I didn't see the whole he grabbed her leg for support thing, but I find unless it's a vicious Allstars (so the first one, late HvV) they generally are "you know, you got me, blah blah." and he looked so devastated. So it's more of a kiss like. tough break cookie, I'm sorry. (if it were me I wouldn't have kissed him ... who am I kidding, i would have teehe - but i mean, i would have given him a hug or something because he was just like. oh mah god)

though. i don't like her. coz I didn't like her game last time. blegh.
Why did you quit on us, Natalie!

 

6 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

To be fair, they haven't had a gross food challenge in many a season, either.

I read somewhere, they don't do it v. often because some countries take offense that their food choices are seen as "gross" 

[Wings]

26 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

Good eye Wings. I love their thin sliced bread. Agreed it can be hard to find but at 40 calories a slice...

What was with the coffee as a challenge reward? Seems as though they are giving them so much more to eat and drink than they have in previous seasons. (Or at least this early in the game)  I loved the challenges when they had to stand on those poles over water and the last person up there gets a peanut butter and jelly sandwich OR the auctions for food which were always amusing. 

Not having that bread outside of the east coast makes me nuts!  There is no reason for that because groceries here sell their other bread.  Malcolm (a favorite) getting the boot was second to me being triggered with that cookie to miss their bread.  Well I read the spoilers, so there is that.  I love the thinner slice because normal size is just too much bread for a sandwich!

 

Okay, I am calmer now and breathing through my nose.  Carry on.  

Edited March 23, 2017 by wings707

[SlackerInc]

16 hours ago, LanceM said:

It made good tv, that is why they allowed it. Good tv always comes first.

It did, granted--but I think it would have been even better TV to make them have to say things openly or in code rather than huddling.

16 hours ago, vb68 said:

I agree.  She's the goat you should be dragging to the end. As a former winner, I can't believe JT doesn't see that.  

I agree with all those who see this as playing with fire.  I think people would be amazed that they let Sandra get to the end, and they'd be attracted by the idea of making her the first three-time winner.

15 hours ago, mishap said:

I'm not really surprised Tai showed it to everyone, because Tai is not a good player, IMO,  but I am always dumbfounded when anyone who has an idol shows it to anyone else, ever.  I guess Tai is thinking of the team, but the team is a fleeting thing. They can switch them at the drop of a hat.  I know numbers matter in a merge, but still -- it's an individual game.   Keep that shit to yourself, for yourself. 

It's not much of an individual game if you get Pagonged.  I think just the opposite: idols are far more useful to keep your alliance on the good side of the numbers, and help cement your alliance and build goodwill on the jury, as opposed to just buying yourself another week (if you even pick the right week to play it).

14 hours ago, Trick Question said:

In fairness, Culpepper was legitimately super-impressive in that challenge.  He was so good at throwing my friend asked if he played quarterback in the NFL, rather than linebacker.

He was actually a defensive tackle, believe it or not.  (He's lost nearly 100 pounds since his playing days.)

13 hours ago, Trick Question said:

Three mistakes and two semi-mistakes by Sandra's team...

1. Not having more belief that an idol could be in play.
2. Not voting for Debbie (since if you're worried about an idol, you vote for the person least likely to have it, i.e. The Edgardo Strategy)
3. Not voting for Tai, along the same lines as #2.  He and Debbie aren't big-picture threats, but as long as someone is going home from that tribe, it's fine.
4. (semi) Not voting for Hali, and just cutting the cord as to whether you can trust her or not.
5 (semi). Not trying the REALLY advanced move and eliminating JT.  If they pull Hali aside and tell her to vote for JT, you'd think she would've been on board.  Malcolm wouldn't have been up for that plan, but they wouldn't actually have needed him.  It would've gone five votes JT (Hali, Varner, Sandra, Aubry, Michaela), four votes Malcolm (Debbie, Tai, Brad, Sierra), two votes Sierra (JT, Malcolm).

 

One mistake by Debbie's team...

1. Not eliminating Sandra when you have the chance.  Malcolm is a threat but you know how to beat him.  Sandra is still the John Wick of Survivor (who has now, btw, somehow made it through THREE TRIBAL COUNCILS WITH A SINGLE VOTE).

This is four-dimensional chess level thinking.  Kudos!

4 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

The second thing that REALLY bothered me was Sierra's kiss of death to Malcolm.  That was such a shrewish thing to do-way to really rub it in someone's face that they just lost the game.  Her self-satisfaction was high (not that I blame her as she was giddy at being saved), but I felt that was just an example of kicking someone while they are down.  

Surprising to me, all the people who are bothered by this.  I think it was a cheeky, fun thing to do, good TV, and not mean-spirited.

[piequinn35]

Question, why did Sandra's tribe vote Sierra instead of Brad?

Same thinking as Deb's tribe to vote the strong-in-challenges player. (MalCOMB)

[mishap]

So, did Culpepper screw over JT?    Did he tell JT they were voting for Sandra?

I am a little baffled by what went down between those two.  Did JT tell him they were voting for Sierra, or that he was going to vote for Sandra?  Because it doesn't make any sense to me, for him to have told both of those things to Culpepper. 

JT screwed himself with his current tribe, by running over and whispering to Culpepper.   

I'm not sure where JT goes from here, except to get his torch snuffed. 

[BetyBee]

I run hot and cold about Brad.  I like that he's so devoted to his wife.  I find his tattoos kind of awful, but fascinating.  I hate the way he used JT's trust, but hey, JT chose to give him the info about the Sierra vote.  Brad would have been stupid not to take advantage and by doing so, he looks good to the rest of his team and gets rid of another young challenge monster.  I liked how calm and methodical he was at the reward challenge.  I also found the decorating comment last week to be kind of endearing.  Ok, I think I just convinced myself that I'm good with him going far.  But I do feel bad about Malcolm.  He seems like a good guy.