Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[zenme]

I’m thinking when Smuggar came to town Jeremy played the “I have school” card, similar to, “I have to work, and can’t get out of it” card that I have played when my in-laws come to town. 

[sue450]

On 6/22/2021 at 1:06 PM, 3 is enough said:

I bet Mrs Reber is thrilled.  Three more months of the houseguest she really did not want in the first place.

 

did you know the rebers daughter  is  courting one of annas (josh wife)  brother 

[Rabbittron]

27 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Prison in Englewood, CO.

Depending on traffic it's a 10 minute drive from my mom's house. 

[sue450]

On 6/30/2021 at 10:31 AM, JoanArc said:

 Bitch used to beat little infants with a wooden spoon. God help the person that gets in the way of ‘the real Michelle’, and what she wants.

yes it is called "blanket training" from the book by mr and mrs pearl called "how to train up a child"    several children were killed from their parents  using the torture in this book, michelle helped them sell this book and they helped the duggars sell their books

Edited July 2, 2021 by sue450

[Jeeves]

28 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Prison in Englewood, CO.

I happened to drive by it the other day. I'll take my discussion of local trivia to small talk.

Just now, sue450 said:

did you know the rebers daughter  is  courting one of annas (josh wife)  brother 

Yep. It's been discussed here, I think a few pages back on this forum.

[sue450]

1 minute ago, Jeeves said:

I happened to drive by it the other day. I'll take my discussion of local trivia to small talk.

Yep. It's been discussed here, I think a few pages back on this forum.

oh I am still catching up a few pages behind I didn't get to it yet!

 

[Cinnabon]

23 minutes ago, zenme said:

I’m thinking when Smuggar came to town Jeremy played the “I have school” card, similar to, “I have to work, and can’t get out of it” card that I have played when my in-laws come to town. 

Sure,  but as the headship it was his decision to allow the visit. Josh didn’t have to stay on their property.

[emmawoodhouse]

12 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Sure,  but as the headship it was his decision to allow the visit. Josh didn’t have to stay on their property.

Jinger was the reason the Duggar caravan bothered coming to CA at all. She was the tour guide. We know she can't say no to her family, or anyone else for that matter. Jeremy just got out of the way as much as he could with "school" and "work."

[GeeGolly]

I don't put much weight in the blind items, but a long time ago Jana said during a show that she had struggled with forgiving someone. At the time, for some reason I thought it might be Anna. I'm thinking now it probably was Josh. I think it was an episode shortly after Josh and Anna married. But in later years, Jana often travelled with Josh and his family and made a couple of trips to DC when they were there.

As far as the rest of the sisters, I truly don't think they hated Josh (until now). Even though their belief system is patriarchally based, much of that is in name only. Michelle and the older girls ran the ship. If you were to ask the younger crew who was in charge they'd likely say Jana and Jill, and in later years Jessa.

Derick and Ben never seemed to have a problem with Josh, and Austin has known Josh much of his life. By the time Jeremy came along Josh wasn't in any shows and needed to hide from the cameras during family events. And the Vuolos didn't live in the area, so Jeremy wouldn't need to intentionally avoid him.

Now that we're here, I'm thinking they've all lost any respect for Josh. And when and if Josh can ever be around kids again, I would lose respect for any Duggar that brought their kids anywhere near him.

[sue450]

7 hours ago, KitKat said:

His parents flaunting sex in front of a then child reaching puberty is a crime in and of itself, the only people he saw was family, no chance to develop a natural progression of being 12 year old crushing on the girl in school.  Talking to other boys about sex, sneaking a peek at Playboy.  First hug, kiss, broken heart, breaking hearts.  His parents put the girls on a platter.

He had normal needs to explore and given his upbringing it is a wonder nothing else happened in that fucked up hell hole of a house.  Hell he couldn't have alone time to masturbate.

I do think as an adult he should have known NOT to look at children being abused. 

None of us really know the reality of how sexual his parents displayed themselves in the open.

 

 

 

there was an old  19 kids and counting episode at the mini golf course, no I don't think josh was there...it was michelles turn  and jim bob was behind her wrapped around her with her arms trying to show her how to golf..he starts dry humping her  in front of the kids  they were laughing saying "you can't do this"

 like I said I don't think josh was there, but just image if they did THIS on camera what kind of displays did they do when the cameras were off  at the big house I am sure josh saw im=nappropriate sexual  antics between the 2 of them

[emmawoodhouse]

The mini go!f scene was with Ben and Jessa. I may be wrong, but I don't think they were even engaged at that point. 

[sue450]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

The mini go!f scene was with Ben and Jessa. I may be wrong, but I don't think they were even engaged at that point. 

thanks I thought josh was not there for THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT...but there must have been other inappropriate momements he witnessed

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, sue450 said:

thanks I thought josh was not there for THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT...but there must have been other inappropriate momements he witnessed

I'm sure all of the kids were exposed to inappropriate displays of PDA between their parents. Even now in his 50s, Boob remains a horny teenager.

[RedDelicious]

Driving around in that Slingshot car of his. It’s like the epitome of late midlife crisis horny teenager behavior. 

[Tabbygirl521]

17 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I'm sure all of the kids were exposed to inappropriate displays of PDA between their parents. Even now in his 50s, Boob remains a horny teenager.

Hey hey hey!

as far as hugging and showing affection: they may wish to but it’s not allowed because most physical contact stirs desires that cannot righteously be fulfilled  

 

 

[BigBingerBro]

Jim Bob Duggar: Josh's Arrest is All Anna's Fault!

[Meow25]

v

Edited July 4, 2021 by Meow25

[Zella]

6 hours ago, Meow25 said:

possibly split up between Amy, Jinger, and Jill (?) who people may not like, but have definitely distanced themselves from IBLP, and Anna needs to go into full time deprogramming therapy...and the kids also need mucho therapy.  I am just so so so unbelievably sad for Anna's children.  They didn't do anything to deserve this.  CPS! HELP THEM!!!  

I agree that the situation with Anna is not great, but I don't think farming her kids out like a litter of puppies to Amy, Jinger, or Jill would help their trauma. Beyond just the fact that I think separating siblings really should be avoided--when my childhood was at its shittiest, I can't even how much worse it would have been if my brother and I had been separated--but I don't think those relatives are necessarily calming waters even if they seem marginally more mainstream.

In the past, Amy and her husband have admitted they have violent arguments, one of which culminated in him throwing her cat. Jinger always seems like she's under a tremendous amount of stress as she wrangles two small children while her lord and master spends his days being a snobby douchebag for the gram. Derick and Jill seem slightly healthier than they were--low bar--but I don't get the impression that Jill still has a high tolerance for stress. I doubt life for the Ms is very happy now, but I'm not really sure relocating to any of those households would necessarily not come with its own significant stress. 

And on top of that, two of Josh's victims (Jill and Jinger) may find it retraumatizing to care for his kids, and those kids may also find it additionally upsetting to be placed with people who have appeared almost gleeful about their dad's arrest occurring (Derick and Amy). And I get why they feel that way, but that's really not a cool thing for his kids to have to be subjected to right now. 

I do think Anna and her kids would really benefit from therapy, but unfortunately, I doubt that's ever going to happen. 

Edit to add: given the apparent estrangement Jim Bob has had with Jill and Amy and the distance Jeremy and Jinger have always lived from Arkansas during their married life, I'm not sure how familiar any of these people would be to the younger M kids, either, which hardly would be a comfort if you were suddenly separated from your mom and siblings. 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Zella

[Gigi43]

Splitting up the M kids could be even more stressful for the kids and asking anyone to take on that many kids is too much. None of them seem to be in a position to take on any more kids than they can handle, especially if they're not used to being around them and Amy, Jill and Jinger probably have spent very little time with the M kids. Also as long as they're with the Duggar's it gives JB and M access to them to spin a narrative. 

 

I'm not trusting these gossip sites. Some say Anna's getting blame, some say Anna's blaming JB and M, some say they're all blaming the mainstream world--- these sites just want to talk about it for clicks. 

 

It's possible Jinger and Jeremy let Josh come out of obligation --- they may have (rightly) felt if Anna and the kids come, he's not someone who should be left alone back home without supervision, so they let him stay in the RV or whatever. That doesn't mean they spent alone time with him or actually wanted him there. J&J can control if their kids are alone with him by keeping them with him, no one would be able to control what he'd be up to if he was alone in AR.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Gigi43

[anna0852]

I wouldn't wish the M's on Jill. She's finally got her life under control and seems to be enjoying herself and her family. The M's would blow that to hell.

On the other hand she'd probably enroll them in public school as quick as she could which can only be a good thing for those kids.

[Rabbittron]

2 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

I wouldn't wish the M's on Jill. She's finally got her life under control and seems to be enjoying herself and her family. The M's would blow that to hell.

On the other hand she'd probably enroll them in public school as quick as she could which can only be a good thing for those kids.

I don't think that Jill is able to handle 9 kids including a newborn. 

[Heathen]

16 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

I don't think that Jill is able to handle 9 kids including a newborn. 

I don't think anybody is equipped to handle nine kids, but even if she were, it's NOT Jill's responsibility to raise anybody except Israel and Sam.

Jill's already done her time as a sister slave. So have Jana and the other J'slaves. 

[anna0852]

2 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

I don't think that Jill is able to handle 9 kids including a newborn. 

Absolutely not! 

[Hpmec]

Anna has 6, soon to be 7 children. Those kids are her responsibility, and she certainly wouldn't be the first woman to find herself with a bunch of kids and a loser of a husband most likely facing serious jailtime. She is extremely fortunate to have the Duggars who won't let her family starve. In the short term, however, she needs to come up with some sort of plan for supporting her children. I know those in the cult loathe the idea of public assistance, but that is an avenue she may have to explore at least temporarily. If she can arrange for the kids to be watched in the TTH, she may well consider what options she has for employment. With no education, that isn't easy, but Walmart is big in her neck of the woods, and at least it's a paycheck. The sooner she realizes it's up to her to step up and provide for her family, the better. Of course, she could always divorce Josh's sorry ass and look for a new headship, but I very much doubt there would be too many takers given the considerable baggage she comes with. 

[Meow25]

23 hours ago, Zella said:

I agree that the situation with Anna is not great, but I don't think farming her kids out like a litter of puppies to Amy, Jinger, or Jill would help their trauma. Beyond just the fact that I think separating siblings really should be avoided--when my childhood was at its shittiest, I can't even how much worse it would have been if my brother and I had been separated--but I don't think those relatives are necessarily calming waters even if they seem marginally more mainstream.

In the past, Amy and her husband have admitted they have violent arguments, one of which culminated in him throwing her cat. Jinger always seems like she's under a tremendous amount of stress as she wrangles two small children while her lord and master spends his days being a snobby douchebag for the gram. Derick and Jill seem slightly healthier than they were--low bar--but I don't get the impression that Jill still has a high tolerance for stress. I doubt life for the Ms is very happy now, but I'm not really sure relocating to any of those households would necessarily not come with its own significant stress. 

And on top of that, two of Josh's victims (Jill and Jinger) may find it retraumatizing to care for his kids, and those kids may also find it additionally upsetting to be placed with people who have appeared almost gleeful about their dad's arrest occurring (Derick and Amy). And I get why they feel that way, but that's really not a cool thing for his kids to have to be subjected to right now. 

I do think Anna and her kids would really benefit from therapy, but unfortunately, I doubt that's ever going to happen. 

Edit to add: given the apparent estrangement Jim Bob has had with Jill and Amy and the distance Jeremy and Jinger have always lived from Arkansas during their married life, I'm not sure how familiar any of these people would be to the younger M kids, either, which hardly would be a comfort if you were suddenly separated from your mom and siblings. 

being neglected and abused myself, I would have rather have been with an adult I knew than farmed out to foster parents who gave me a mattress that they found of the road with a snake crawling out of it, and then forced to attend to their goat farm.  but sure...we hate Amy, Jinger, and Jill.  Kinship has to be something that all parties agree to, so if theyre uncomfortable they say no.  

but ok

I had a sister, and I would have rather been with an adult  I trusted and split up (knowing she was also with a trusted adult) than been placed in foster care.  

Edited July 4, 2021 by Meow25

[lascuba]

6 hours ago, Hpmec said:

Anna has 6, soon to be 7 children. Those kids are her responsibility, and she certainly wouldn't be the first woman to find herself with a bunch of kids and a loser of a husband most likely facing serious jailtime. She is extremely fortunate to have the Duggars who won't let her family starve. In the short term, however, she needs to come up with some sort of plan for supporting her children. I know those in the cult loathe the idea of public assistance, but that is an avenue she may have to explore at least temporarily. If she can arrange for the kids to be watched in the TTH, she may well consider what options she has for employment. With no education, that isn't easy, but Walmart is big in her neck of the woods, and at least it's a paycheck. The sooner she realizes it's up to her to step up and provide for her family, the better. Of course, she could always divorce Josh's sorry ass and look for a new headship, but I very much doubt there would be too many takers given the considerable baggage she comes with. 

They hate it because they don't want the "undeserving" getting help, but I wouldn't be surprised if whatever property that's in Anna's name gets transferred to someone else so she could qualify for all matter of assistance. As for work, no way will any of them, but especially not Anna, work where the general public can see them. Walmart is out of the question for her. I'm guessing she'll work for JB in some capacity--homeschooling the kids, cleaning his properties, etc. 

[Love2dance]

So very sorry you were neglected and abused @Meow25. I hope things are better now.

[GeeGolly]

I'm sure Anna is trying very much to live in the here and now and is expecting Josh to be home by Christmas or at least the new year. Depending on what the M & Ms have heard or know, or what they've been told, they're likely accepting this new normal by now. If they've been shielded from the truth, their lives probably haven't changed all that much.

If Josh is sent to prison, Anna will probably have a benefit most in her situation don't have - inlaws that will provide for her. Or at the very least, will provide her with housing and babysitting. I'm sure Anna could start a cleaning business and clean houses for some more mainstream Fundies, or go into real estate. 

Ten years is a long time. If Anna doesn't wake up and come to her senses at some point during that time, she never will. 

[Scarlett45]

35 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

If Josh is sent to prison, Anna will probably have a benefit most in her situation don't have - inlaws that will provide for her. Or at the very least, will provide her with housing and babysitting. I'm sure Anna could start a cleaning business and clean houses for some more mainstream Fundies, or go into real estate. 

Ten years is a long time. If Anna doesn't wake up and come to her senses at some point during that time, she never will. 

Likely I think Anna will end up living at the TTH, doing some homeschooling, cleaning and household management in exchange for room/board for her & the M’s, a car to drive that’s big enough for all of them and a small stipend for personal spending (toiletries and Bday presents for the kids). 
 

This arrangement would take some responsibilities away from Jana and at least Anna/the Ms won’t be on the street. I don’t think she will ever denounce or divorce Josh but anything is possible. 

[merylinkid]

Didn;t they put all of Josh's LLCs in her name?   Not sure what they are worth but if Anna had a brain (I crack myself up) she could just look at the Head Idiot and the CCV and say "I own everything, BYE."   And bail on the whole mess.   But she has no idea probably what the LLCs even are or how to run them.   But she could have one of her brothers help.  

[farmgal4]

On 7/2/2021 at 12:36 AM, sue450 said:

there was an old  19 kids and counting episode at the mini golf course, no I don't think josh was there...it was michelles turn  and jim bob was behind her wrapped around her with her arms trying to show her how to golf..he starts dry humping her  in front of the kids  they were laughing saying "you can't do this"

 like I said I don't think josh was there, but just image if they did THIS on camera what kind of displays did they do when the cameras were off  at the big house I am sure josh saw im=nappropriate sexual  antics between the 2 of them

I’ll always believe that JimBoob is a pervert too.

[MargeGunderson]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

Didn;t they put all of Josh's LLCs in her name?   Not sure what they are worth but if Anna had a brain (I crack myself up) she could just look at the Head Idiot and the CCV and say "I own everything, BYE."   And bail on the whole mess.   But she has no idea probably what the LLCs even are or how to run them.   But she could have one of her brothers help.  

I bet that none of the kids’ LLCs have much money in them. Most of them seem to be tax avoidance vehicles, as opposed to companies that actually provide a service or a product. 

[Rootbeer]

32 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

I bet that none of the kids’ LLCs have much money in them. Most of them seem to be tax avoidance vehicles, as opposed to companies that actually provide a service or a product. 

I agree, if there are real, tangible assets; money, real estate or a viable business, being held in any of the kids' LLC'a, their presence is very transient.  Just long enough for Boob to gain a tax advantage.

I would also presume, like any business entity, that the owner of the LLC may not be the manager.  Someone else could be appointed to be in charge of transferring assets, paying debts, accounting for all funds contained in the LLC.  I don't think anyone thinks Anna actually runs her LLC, she has probably signed off for someone else to handle it.  Wonder who?  She may well need JB to sign off before she could sell any property or withdraw any cash even if the LLC is in her name.  JB is too smart to let any of the kids have enough control to snooker him out of anything.

[YupItsMe]

10 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Likely I think Anna will end up living at the TTH, doing some homeschooling, cleaning and household management in exchange for room/board for her & the M’s, a car to drive that’s big enough for all of them and a small stipend for personal spending (toiletries and Bday presents for the kids). 
 

This arrangement would take some responsibilities away from Jana and at least Anna/the Ms won’t be on the street. I don’t think she will ever denounce or divorce Josh but anything is possible. 

I imagine she will end up “working” for JB in some capacity so that she can receive a paycheck of sorts but I think she’ll need to live independently of the Family in order to receive benefits such as WIC. 

[emmawoodhouse]

4 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

I agree, if there are real, tangible assets; money, real estate or a viable business, being held in any of the kids' LLC'a, their presence is very transient.  Just long enough for Boob to gain a tax advantage.

I would also presume, like any business entity, that the owner of the LLC may not be the manager.  Someone else could be appointed to be in charge of transferring assets, paying debts, accounting for all funds contained in the LLC.  I don't think anyone thinks Anna actually runs her LLC, she has probably signed off for someone else to handle it.  Wonder who?  She may well need JB to sign off before she could sell any property or withdraw any cash even if the LLC is in her name.  JB is too smart to let any of the kids have enough control to snooker him out of anything.

Pretty sure that Anna's LLCs also have a lawyer named. 

[Fosca]

I really think that, as has been suggested, JB and M will move her into the TTH, where she will begin raising/teaching the Lost Girls (and maybe Tyler and Jackson) along with her kids.  The question will be if Anna will have to sleep in the girls dorm or if she'll get her own room.

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, Fosca said:

I really think that, as has been suggested, JB and M will move her into the TTH, where she will begin raising/teaching the Lost Girls (and maybe Tyler and Jackson) along with her kids.  The question will be if Anna will have to sleep in the girls dorm or if she'll get her own room.

The only other bedroom is downstairs off the laundry. The girls' dorm has 6 in it now. Adding Anna, Mack, Mere, Maryella and the new baby would bring it to 11. It was jam packed at 9, so it would be a tight squeeze.

[iwantcookies]

8 minutes ago, Fosca said:

I really think that, as has been suggested, JB and M will move her into the TTH, where she will begin raising/teaching the Lost Girls (and maybe Tyler and Jackson) along with her kids.  The question will be if Anna will have to sleep in the girls dorm or if she'll get her own room.

Maybe Anna can share a room with Jana and Laura

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

The only other bedroom is downstairs off the laundry. The girls' dorm has 6 in it now. Adding Anna, Mack, Mere, Maryella and the new baby would bring it to 11. It was jam packed at 9, so it would be a tight squeeze.

Not to mention, they may be short two beds. Did the twins ever return the girls' beds they slept in when they moved out? 

[Scarlett45]

11 minutes ago, YupItsMe said:

I imagine she will end up “working” for JB in some capacity so that she can receive a paycheck of sorts but I think she’ll need to live independently of the Family in order to receive benefits such as WIC. 

I don’t think Anna will ever live independently. I think the concept would be so foreign to her she wouldn’t insist on it, and I don’t think JB would want her to fo that. 

[YupItsMe]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t think Anna will ever live independently. I think the concept would be so foreign to her she wouldn’t insist on it, and I don’t think JB would want her to fo that. 

I understand and agree. I just meant not in the TTH itself where JB’s income may have a bearing on any benefits she might be eligible for. She could still “rent” the warehouse from him and stay on the compound.

 

 

[emmawoodhouse]

18 minutes ago, YupItsMe said:

I understand and agree. I just meant not in the TTH itself where JB’s income may have a bearing on any benefits she might be eligible for. She could still “rent” the warehouse from him and stay on the compound.

 

 

I doubt they've ever paid Boob a dime to live in the warehouse. I suspect Anna and the Ms will continue to live there rent-free.

[YupItsMe]

🙂 that’s why I put rent in quotes… Same with “working”

[Joan of Argh]

12 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

I’ll always believe that JimBoob is a pervert too.

Same here the way he shoved his arm up a pregnant heifer in front of his boys as a sex lesson and then snickered as he told them “this is where babies come from” made my skin crawl… he’s a perv

[Snow Fairy]

If Josh ends up in jail, is it a possible scenario that JB finds Anna a bit of a blame for that? And that he wouldn't be so happy of her and the kids living with them?

 

Or is it just me and my weird feelings about the whole situation?

[GeeGolly]

These ladies are braver than I would be during this time, if I were them. Jill doing a post with Josh's name and now Jessa doing a post about having a brother's back. Trolls are mean when the posts are about nothing, but why give them anything even close to jump off of?

[merylinkid]

5 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

If Josh ends up in jail, is it a possible scenario that JB finds Anna a bit of a blame for that? And that he wouldn't be so happy of her and the kids living with them?

 

Or is it just me and my weird feelings about the whole situation?

If he lets her off the compound and doens't support her, he loses control of her.   She can say whatever she wants and he can't stop it once they aren't dependent on him for food and shelter.   Also if he throws the mother of his grandchildren and his grandchildren out into the street, he loses face.   His reputation will take a hit with the fundies.    He can't afford that.   So Anna and the kids will always be publicly supported and cared for.   What goes on in private will be another story.   She will be punished for not being a good enough wife and made to be a slave to everyone else in the family to make up for it.   Which she will never fight against because 7 kids to support with no other means than this horrible family.

[floridamom]

Boob has no right to blame Anna for Josh's actions. The pervert was a pervert before he ever met her. The issues are within JohUa...not Anna.  It's sad that their belief system of under educating and underpreparing females for an adult life did not prepare them for this scenario. Anna is in the same boat if Josh were a model christian husband and simply passed away young....Anna has no education, skills, training or experience to provide for herself, let alone herself and soon to be 7 children. 

[MargeGunderson]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

These ladies are braver than I would be during this time, if I were them. Jill doing a post with Josh's name and now Jessa doing a post about having a brother's back. Trolls are mean when the posts are about nothing, but why give them anything even close to jump off of?

I don’t think they are brave but clueless (especially Jessa).

[Tabbygirl521]

On 7/3/2021 at 3:39 PM, Hpmec said:

Anna has 6, soon to be 7 children. Those kids are her responsibility, and she certainly wouldn't be the first woman to find herself with a bunch of kids and a loser of a husband most likely facing serious jailtime. She is extremely fortunate to have the Duggars who won't let her family starve. In the short term, however, she needs to come up with some sort of plan for supporting her children. I know those in the cult loathe the idea of public assistance, but that is an avenue she may have to explore at least temporarily. If she can arrange for the kids to be watched in the TTH, she may well consider what options she has for employment. With no education, that isn't easy, but Walmart is big in her neck of the woods, and at least it's a paycheck. The sooner she realizes it's up to her to step up and provide for her family, the better. Of course, she could always divorce Josh's sorry ass and look for a new headship, but I very much doubt there would be too many takers given the considerable baggage she comes with. 

I agree with this but then I wonder, who’s the unfortunate J’Slave who will be assigned to provide childcare and home schooling while Anna works.