Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[merylinkid]

7 hours ago, LilyD said:

Frankly I keep wondering why they keep on defending him at all costs. Yes, he’s their son, but some things just cannot be ignored, even if it’s your own child.

Because if they are wrong about him being the chosen one, then they have to question what else they were wrong about.   The Head Idiot and his Handmaid do not question themselves.  

[LilJen]

12 hours ago, Heathen said:

It's not just the rural or even small town Midwest. Or even the Midwest and the Bible Belt.  

Topic: I wonder what name M7 will get. My current guess is something very biblical. Maybe Moriah. 

True, but the first time I encountered this attitude was after moving here.

names? Methuselah? Mikael? Mary Magdalene? My Isn’t That a Long Sentence Your Daddy Is Serving?

[GeeGolly]

Madeline, Marissa or...  Melania.

Of course now might be a good time to name her Michelle or Mae-Bob.

[Caracoa1]

Josh has an over inflated ego and I wonder if he thinks he's actually going to get out of this unscathed with no prison sentence.  When he does go to prison will he be the one to "rat"  on Jim Bob?

[zenme]

3 minutes ago, Caracoa1 said:

Josh has an over inflated ego and I wonder if he thinks he's actually going to get out of this unscathed with no prison sentence.  When he does go to prison will he be the one to "rat"  on Jim Bob?

Yes. He will. He’s such a coward. 

[Heathen]

30 minutes ago, zenme said:

Yes. He will. He’s such a coward. 

No criminal ever plans on getting caught, any more than a kid caught nabbing cookies from the pantry ever plans on getting caught. 

None of us can say with certainty what Smuggar will or won't do or what any sentence will be. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Heathen

[Rootbeer]

Just now, Heathen said:

No criminal ever plans on getting caught, any more than a kid caught nabbing cookies from the pantry ever plans on getting caught. 

None of us can say with certainty what Smuggar will or won't do or what any sentence will be. 

Of course not.  But we've seen enough of Smuggar to know that he will fold like a cheap lawn chair when faced with doing time in a federal prison.  Which makes it a good bet that he will roll over and talk about anyone or anything that might help himself, even if it means implicating family in other crimes.  Now, whether he actually has any bargaining chips that the feds would want is another story.

We've also seen enough of these sorts of federal cases to know that the rate of conviction is extremely high and what the typical sentence is for the crimes Josh is alleged to have committed.

I don't know that Josh ever thought about getting caught by the feds, but, once again, his parents have bought his way out of trouble and helped him escape consequences for his actions all his life; it isn't too big a leap to say that Josh wasn't worried about getting caught at least, in part, because he felt that JB and M would handle it for him.  I do expect he didn't know much about federal charges for images of child sexual abuse and how little influence his Daddy would have with the feds.  He grew up under JB's 'umbrella of protection' and it had been pretty effective for him until now.

[zenme]

4 minutes ago, Heathen said:

No criminal ever plans on getting caught, any more than a kid caught nabbing cookies from the pantry ever plans on getting caught. 

None of us can say with certainty what Smuggar will or won't do or what any sentence will be. 

Josh isn’t street smart. He doesn’t know how to operate in that environment. He’s going to be in prison with people who know how to live and maneuver in that environment. Some of those folks know nothing else. Someone is going to see he comes from a television family and exploit him in whatever ways they can—sexual, or money, or both. He’s gonna talk because he’s gonna try to operate in the way HE knows how to operate, and he’s gonna trust people he shouldn’t because he’s going to try to survive. The people he trusts will talk. 

[scriggle]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Madeline, Marissa or...  Melania.

Of course now might be a good time to name her Michelle or Mae-Bob.

M'roberta? Moberta? 😘

[JoanArc]

Quote

Of course now might be a good time to name her Michelle or Mae-Bob.

Michelle Duggar - would be both Josh's Mother and Daughter.

Creepy. Of course Anna'll do it.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, scriggle said:

M'roberta? Moberta? 😘

M'JimmaBob?

[xwordfanatik]

I still like Marguerite, but they would never choose that.  I like Martha, too (I'm old.)

Mercy is a probable name.  7 kids with that pervert, it's got to be hell on earth for Anna.  She must be praying like never before, day and night.  Her parents did her wrong in agreeing to that sham of a marriage.  That's what they all get for not teaching her to use her own judgement.

[Liddy52]

Magnolia?? Nickname "Nolie".

[zenme]

Marlo

[JoanArc]

17 minutes ago, zenme said:

Marlo

Mario Luigi Duggar

Malfeasance Forgiven Duggar

Marlboro Contraband Duggar

Multipartioned Drive Duggar

Will the judge in the case have a M'name. If so...not hard to guess what it'll be.

[iwantcookies]

Miley

Madison

Miranda

Martyr

Miracle

Mashley

Mashton

Myfault

MickiBob

Minstagram 

Macey

 

Marlene

[Quilt Fairy]

I don't think Josh has any chips to play to get a sentence reduction.  When you start that kind of negotiation, you have to give up someone higher up the chain and/or with a worse crime.  Jesse Pinkman isn't going to get any consideration by giving up Badger and Skinny Pete, he's got to give up Walter White.  Who does Josh have?  One of his brothers for altering the odometer readings at the car lot?  That won't fly.  And regardless of what we on this thread think JB has done to launder money/hide his assets/avoid taxes, I don't think they would carry much weight against a CSA charge. 

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Which makes it a good bet that he will roll over and talk about anyone or anything that might help himself, even if it means implicating family 

Me: *Prepares popcorn and wine*

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by BitterApple

[crazy8s]

smugs also has to consider who will support his wife and 7 kids if he sells out the duggars.

Not sure if this is right, but I don't think he can write a tell all and profit while in prison

[BitterApple]

6 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

smugs also has to consider who will support his wife and 7 kids if he sells out the duggars.

Sad to say, but I honestly don't think he cares 

[drafan]

7 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

Not sure if this is right, but I don't think he can write a tell all and profit while in prison

He'll make Anna write it while she's pregnant with #8.

[Scarlett45]

36 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Sad to say, but I honestly don't think he cares 

I agree. I don't think Josh cares about Anna and the kids. He may have given then a cursory thought once upon a time, but Josh only cares about himself and what he wants. Far far far after that, he may care about how his actions have stressed out Michelle, but not enough to actually change.

[Vivigirl10]

25 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Sad to say, but I honestly don't think he cares 

I don't either.

I think something is deeply, deeply flawed in this man.  Like probably was always there and is not fixable.  He's gotten away with things he shouldn't have numerous times which feeds into his belief that he will not punished...EVER.  It also reinforces his superiority complex.  I'm in the camp that he really isn't worried in the slightest right now because of his complete belief that once again he will be let off the hook.  

This might sound silly but you know those murder cases where upon review, somehow the murderer had dodged punishment time and time again for criminal actions?  And it wasn't until the final, horrible act of murder that they were held accountable?  I could see Josh ending up like this.  I really think he is that damaged.  It also makes me afraid that even if he does go to jail this time, he's going to have a lot of life left to live afterwards.     

[crazy8s]

35 minutes ago, drafan said:

He'll make Anna write it while she's pregnant with #8.

or maybe David Waller can do another ghost write

[libgirl2]

44 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Sad to say, but I honestly don't think he cares 

Add me to that list. 

5 minutes ago, Kiki620 said:

I think something is deeply, deeply flawed in this man.  Like probably was always there and is not fixable.  He's gotten away with things he shouldn't have numerous times which feeds into his belief that he will not punished...EVER.  It also reinforces his superiority complex.  I'm in the camp that he really isn't worried in the slightest right now because of his complete belief that once again he will be let off the hook.  

This might sound silly but you know those murder cases where upon review, somehow the murderer had dodged punishment time and time again for criminal actions?  And it wasn't until the final, horrible act of murder that they were held accountable?  I could see Josh ending up like this.  I really think he is that damaged.  It also makes me afraid that even if he does go to jail this time, he's going to have a lot of life left to live afterwards.     

I agree that there is something so flawed in this person. I am playing armchair psychiatrist and trying to figure out if he more like a sociopath or psychopath. 

[zenme]

2 hours ago, crazy8s said:

smugs also has to consider who will support his wife and 7 kids if he sells out the duggars.

Not sure if this is right, but I don't think he can write a tell all and profit while in prison

Maybe Anna can. I’m here for that! ☝🏼

[Lukeysboat]

I vote for Miriam. It’s biblical and one of its meanings is “bitter” or “sea of bitterness.” Seems apropos. 

[JoanArc]

3 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Add me to that list. 

I agree that there is something so flawed in this person. I am playing armchair psychiatrist and trying to figure out if he more like a sociopath or psychopath. 

I think he has a lot in common with Jim Bob an Michelle. It's why they get along so well. They're all in on the act.

[Heathen]

7 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Of course not.  But we've seen enough of Smuggar to know that he will fold like a cheap lawn chair when faced with doing time in a federal prison.  Which makes it a good bet that he will roll over and talk about anyone or anything that might help himself, even if it means implicating family in other crimes.  Now, whether he actually has any bargaining chips that the feds would want is another story.

There is no way anybody can say with certainty something about another person, good or bad or Smuggar. There is also no certainty that there are other crimes committed by Duggars. Unseemly or unethical does not equal illegal. 

[Albanyguy]

4 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

And regardless of what we on this thread think JB has done to launder money/hide his assets/avoid taxes, I don't think they would carry much weight against a CSA charge. 

I've always thought that, if Jim Bob is a crook, he's a very small-time, penny-ante crook. I agree that there's probably very little there for Josh to rat him out on in exchange for a lesser sentence for a CSA charge.

I also don't think he's nearly as rich as he's been rumored to be. I'll bet he's always been the kind of "penny wise, pound foolish" thinks-he's-much-smarter-than he-really-is businessman who loses more money than he makes on all his big deals. I think his vast wealth is as much a fiction as his powerful political connections. He may end up deciding to have Josh plead guilty because he can't pay the legal bills or, if he does bite the bullet and finance Josh's defense to the bitter end, he may end up bankrupting himself.

[GeeGolly]

I think JB and M are wackadoodles and Josh is slime, but I'm not sure they're diagnosable. JB is a big buffoon who lucked out with TLC and has made some wise real estate decisions. Michelle is a passive-aggressive, martyr princess. Josh is, well Josh could be a pedophile or he could be just a gross, disgusting, sex fetish, asshole.

Unfortunately there are a lot of parents out there who are just like JB & M, maybe minus the extreme beliefs. And even with their beliefs, sadly, they're not the worst of the worst.

And the are a lot of guys out there who are like Josh, pedophiles and not pedophiles. Josh and his ilk are the worst of the worst.

[zenme]

40 minutes ago, Heathen said:

There is no way anybody can say with certainty something about another person, good or bad or Smuggar. There is also no certainty that there are other crimes committed by Duggars. Unseemly or unethical does not equal illegal. 

Of course. I think we all know that, but we can speculate.

[GeeGolly]

I wanted to add to my last post...

Josh was punished for Scandal 1 - going away at age 14 for six months, and for Scandal 2 - Jesus Jail for a few months. So, its not like JB & M, and Anna, didn't try and hold him accountable. Whether the punishments were suitable is another matter.

Now JB & M are likely paying for Josh's defense, but that is as much for them as it is for him. First, he's their son. Second, they want and need to believe he's innocent and third, they have their public reputation to protect.

I don't see that any of those actions as making JB & M abnormal and out there as parents. They suck as parents, but like I said in my previous post, they are not the worst of the worst.

I mean, Josh is scum. I think they're actually handling their bad seed as well, or if not better, then some other parents put in that awful situation.

[Jynnan tonnix]

15 hours ago, Lukeysboat said:

I vote for Miriam. It’s biblical and one of its meanings is “bitter” or “sea of bitterness.” Seems apropos. 

Perfect! Miriam Roberta...Mim-Bob for short!

[GeeGolly]

Just now, Jynnan tonnix said:

Perfect! Miriam Roberta...Mim-Bob for short!

Perfect!

[JoanArc]

59 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Josh was punished for Scandal 1 - going away at age 14 for six months, and for Scandal 2 - Jesus Jail for a few months. So, its not like JB & M, and Anna, didn't try and hold him accountable. Whether the punishments were suitable is another matter.

 Performative punishment. The I pray you put this journal way podcast mentioned that Josh received tons of calls from higher ups in ATI after he confessed to the church, congratulating him. Like literally congratulating him for confessing his sin and puffing them up as being a proud Jesus warrior. I’m pretty sure that Undid everything that digging out a pond put it in him.

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't see that any of those actions as making JB & M abnormal and out there as parents. They suck as parents, but like I said in my previous post, they are not the worst of the worst.

I agree with this. Being a piece of shit is not a diagnosable condition. We will never have enough information outside of  therapy to really be able to do anything. 

Assuming he does go to prison, which is likely,  I really wonder what his therapy will reveal.  Those poor therapists. 

[merylinkid]

Unless Josh has Epstein's little black book, he doesn't have anything worth trading for.   Not with what he is accused of.

 

16 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I also don't think he's nearly as rich as he's been rumored to be. I'll bet he's always been the kind of "penny wise, pound foolish" thinks-he's-much-smarter-than he-really-is businessman who loses more money than he makes on all his big deals.

Yep.   Head Idiot is a small time guy who spends waaaaaay too much energy hustling for small deals then proclaiming how great he is.   If he put half as much energy into working hard at ONE business, he could be quite wealthy.   But he's always hustling.   Which is not a great payoff in the long run.   With the TLC money drying up, the chickens are going to come home to roost and its going to show how little his hustle has given him.   Oooh he's a real estate magnate in small town Arkansas.    Yep, J. Paul Getty in the making there.  

 

Not insulting real estate magnates in small towns.   But most of them know they just happen to be big fish in small ponds.   They don't think they are all that and a bag of chips.

[Rootbeer]

7 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Unless Josh has Epstein's little black book, he doesn't have anything worth trading for.   Not with what he is accused of.

 

Yep.   Head Idiot is a small time guy who spends waaaaaay too much energy hustling for small deals then proclaiming how great he is.   If he put half as much energy into working hard at ONE business, he could be quite wealthy.   But he's always hustling.   Which is not a great payoff in the long run.   With the TLC money drying up, the chickens are going to come home to roost and its going to show how little his hustle has given him.   Oooh he's a real estate magnate in small town Arkansas.    Yep, J. Paul Getty in the making there.  

 

Not insulting real estate magnates in small towns.   But most of them know they just happen to be big fish in small ponds.   They don't think they are all that and a bag of chips.

I agree, I don't think Josh has any bargaining chips when it comes to his family though I could see him trying to use them anyway.  The feds will laugh in his face, though.  JB is small time at best and there is no way he has done anything that could even begin to mitigate Josh' crimes.

And, JB is a legend in his own mind; he doesn't have enough wealth or influence to help Josh out of this mess other than paying legal bills.  And, even that will have its limits.

[mynextmistake]

On 7/28/2021 at 2:44 AM, merylinkid said:

One of the reasons they get 95% conviction rate is that they DO play games with the evidence.   Some judges just overlook it.   Some judges sanction the attorneys involved (including sending them to remedial law courses) but let the evidence stand anyway.   A lot of cases overturned on appeal are from game playing by the prosecution.   

We don't like Josh.   The court of public opinion is one thing.   But no court case is a slam dunk (ask the OJ prosecutors)

Are you an attorney? If not, what is the source of your information?

True crime TV series and podcasts have made many people think prosecutorial misconduct is far more common than it is. It’s not that common. You just don’t hear about the cases where the prosecution complies with discovery requests and does everything else by the book, because those cases aren’t exciting enough to make for good media. It’s the sensational ones with a clear villain that get all the press.

Perhaps this statistic will be helpful — data taken from U.S. federal courts of appeal show that fewer than 7% of criminal appeals end up in a reversal of conviction. 93+ percent of the time, someone who gets convicted stays convicted. 

https://www.uscourts.gov/news/2016/12/20/just-facts-us-courts-appeals

[Churchhoney]

On 7/31/2021 at 9:12 AM, GeeGolly said:

I wanted to add to my last post...

Josh was punished for Scandal 1 - going away at age 14 for six months, and for Scandal 2 - Jesus Jail for a few months. So, its not like JB & M, and Anna, didn't try and hold him accountable. Whether the punishments were suitable is another matter.

Now JB & M are likely paying for Josh's defense, but that is as much for them as it is for him. First, he's their son. Second, they want and need to believe he's innocent and third, they have their public reputation to protect.

I don't see that any of those actions as making JB & M abnormal and out there as parents. They suck as parents, but like I said in my previous post, they are not the worst of the worst.

I mean, Josh is scum. I think they're actually handling their bad seed as well, or if not better, then some other parents put in that awful situation.

My main quarrel with JB and M is not what they did after Josh's first activities. It's what they did before, throughout and after.     

When I think of bad actors, I often think of the Roman emperors. Some of them, like Josh, were clearly born with personality and character traits that can make you into a huge troublemaker. And the ones of those who turned out to be the absolutely insanely bad emperors? They were the ones who'd been given a massive sense of entitlement from birth and throughout their lives. 

JB and M, and their god Gothard, set up a system in which firstborn sons are treated like little golden gods, compared to all other children. They are entitled entitled entitled and they and everybody else are told that this boy -- this firstborn son of the Jesus lovers -- isn't there just to rule the family, although he is, he's there to rule widely, rule the nation, in Josh's case. 

That's what these two assholes told Josh and everybody else over and over. They told their other kids that and they told the people in their home churches that and they told all the Gothardites that. JB told his political cronies that and set Josh up to be "the little governor" in JB's statehouse crowd. 

All this pretty clearly gave him a sense of entitlement a mile high. And it seems clear that they absolutely ignored the clearly overweening arrogance the kid was developing. Yeah, they punished him (in a stupid way) after the fashion. But then they went right back to stoking the arrogance -- and the arrogance was plainly visible all over him. They kept on promoting him as God's and Gothard's great hope to their circle. They touted him to their church circle in exactly the same way they had before. 

For a person with his traits, that's lethal. 

And, of course, it's crap, too. It's unfair to your other children. And it's an idiot piece of mythology that actually is intended to crown YOU with greater glory -- because your first little loin fruit is just so specialecialecial.-- BECAUSE he's your first little loin fruit. It's a sin of pride, big time, on the part of his parents, in my opinion. And of course it isn't based on any reason or facts. It's based on your own mythology that claims God loves you and your firstborn male offspring to pieces!

And when do that to the wrong kid, you may well get Caligula, Nero, and Josh Duggar. And if you didn't do it? Well, I don't know for sure, but maybe you'd've gotten Caligula Lite instead. And that would be at least a minor improvement. 

So, to me, JB's and M's arrogance and  ignorance -- which of course also played a big role in their refusal to get any real therapy for any of the kids or allow anybody but them to get involved with his punishment, potential rehabilitation or anything else -- almost certainly played a fairly significant role in ensuring that Josh would just get worse and worse and worse as a person and not ever even get a shot at improving a bit. 

Obviously, Josh might have turned out as he has no matter what. I certainly can't prove that he, in particular, would have been any better if he'd been treated like a normal human being instead of a little golden god. 

 But it's pretty clear that the system of crap entitlement they set up very very seldom (I'd say never) does its recipients -- or the unfortunate people who end up being "ruled" by those recipients -- any favors.

And it's always unjust to other people and set up because the system creators are busy patting themselves on the back and imagining they know how to shape the future in their own fabulous image. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Rootbeer]

On 7/31/2021 at 9:12 AM, GeeGolly said:

I wanted to add to my last post...

Josh was punished for Scandal 1 - going away at age 14 for six months, and for Scandal 2 - Jesus Jail for a few months. So, its not like JB & M, and Anna, didn't try and hold him accountable. Whether the punishments were suitable is another matter.

Now JB & M are likely paying for Josh's defense, but that is as much for them as it is for him. First, he's their son. Second, they want and need to believe he's innocent and third, they have their public reputation to protect.

I don't see that any of those actions as making JB & M abnormal and out there as parents. They suck as parents, but like I said in my previous post, they are not the worst of the worst.

I mean, Josh is scum. I think they're actually handling their bad seed as well, or if not better, then some other parents put in that awful situation.

I agree, except for the part of the story where the daughters who were molested were punished at least as much, if not more, than Josh.

The girls, if I'm not mistaken, had to stand in front of the congregation at church and admit to tempting their brother to sin.  They were forced to go to bed fully clothed, to sleep in a huge dorm-style room with the door locked to keep their brother away and undoubtedly repeatedly reminded that it was their fault their brother molested them, that, if they'd only behaved properly, he would never have been tempted.

And, Josh heard that message, too, which, IMO, negated all the ditch digging, home renovating he did.  His punishment ended, his sisters' punishment did not.  Actions speak louder than words.

[merylinkid]

8 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

Are you an attorney? If not, what is the source of your information?

Actually I am.   I also have many friends who do criminal defense at the federal level.   The stories they tell are hair raising.   The Supreme Court JUST THIS YEAR said the cops can't lie to juveniles to get a confession.   Yes 2021.   Apparently lying to adults is still okay.   The 4th amendment has been so eroded its not funny.   Why?   To keep those conviction rates high.   Because prosecutors are judged on conviction rates, not getting to the truth of the matter.  

TOPIC:   Court of public opinion can convict Josh all they want.   I hope this FINALLY gets the Duggars and all like them to GO AWAY.   But in the court of law, the Rules must be followed for both sides, prosecution and defense.

[scriggle]

Isn't the federal conviction rate so high due to so many cases pleading out?

Look at the college admission cases. I haven't heard of a single one of those cases going to court yet but there has been a hell of a lot of plea deals.

[zenme]

On 7/29/2021 at 10:20 PM, LilyD said:

Surely JB and Michelle must have serious worries about their son’s soul by now? Just wondering….
Frankly I keep wondering why they keep on defending him at all costs. Yes, he’s their son, but some things just cannot be ignored, even if it’s your own child.

Yes. My dad said his father used to tell all of his kids, “I’ll help you with anything in this life, but I will never lie for you, and if you get in trouble with the law, I can’t help you.”

You would think JimBob would be all for Josh paying consequences for wrong deeds. Especially now. You would think he’d say, “I helped you so many times and I know you know better.  Now you have to do this on your own.”

[zenme]

3 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

I agree, except for the part of the story where the daughters who were molested were punished at least as much, if not more, than Josh.

The girls, if I'm not mistaken, had to stand in front of the congregation at church and admit to tempting their brother to sin.  They were forced to go to bed fully clothed, to sleep in a huge dorm-style room with the door locked to keep their brother away and undoubtedly repeatedly reminded that it was their fault their brother molested them, that, if they'd only behaved properly, he would never have been tempted.

And, Josh heard that message, too, which, IMO, negated all the ditch digging, home renovating he did.  His punishment ended, his sisters' punishment did not.  Actions speak louder than words.

Omg. I don’t realize they made the girls stand before the congregation as well. Way to victim-blame. That’s completely traumatizing. Those poor kids. Wait! What in the heck did 5 year old Joy do to entice him??

Edited August 1, 2021 by zenme

[Westiepeach]

2 hours ago, zenme said:

Yes. My dad said his father used to tell all of his kids, “I’ll help you with anything in this life, but I will never lie for you, and if you get in trouble with the law, I can’t help you.”

You would think JimBob would be all for Josh paying consequences for wrong deeds. Especially now. You would think he’d say, “I helped you so many times and I know you know better.  Now you have to do this on your own.”

JimBob is all about keeping the brand clean. And right now, that ship has sailed. But JB never got that memo.

[auntieminem]

1 hour ago, zenme said:

Omg. I don’t realize they made the girls stand before the congregation as well. Way to victim-blame. That’s completely traumatizing. Those poor kids. Wait! What in the heck did 5 year old Joy do to entice him??

It was my understanding they did not have to confess on tempting him but they did go before the congregation to say they forgave him. According the podcast of Josh's childhood friend whose family went to JB's church, not all the church heard Josh's confession, just the leaders.  This friend did not know at the time for what the sisters were forgiving him. 

[Jeeves]

33 minutes ago, auntieminem said:

It was my understanding they did not have to confess on tempting him but they did go before the congregation to say they forgave him. According the podcast of Josh's childhood friend whose family went to JB's church, not all the church heard Josh's confession, just the leaders.  This friend did not know at the time for what the sisters were forgiving him. 

I also don't think that the daughters had to forgive Josh in front of the whole congregation.

IIRC the situation the podcast guy experienced, was when Josh was caught viewing porn on the political campaign computer. His family had started attending the Duggars' church by then. He talked about the church drama around that, and that Michelle and the Duggar daughters were in floods of tears  at church services over it.

IIRC, the podcast guy (Justin) said that at that time he didn't know about the molestations. I thought, though, that they had happened in the past, I think before his family started going to the Duggars' church. (But I could be wrong of course.) I am pretty sure that Josh's pond-clearing punishment was for the porn-viewing. 

One thing that struck me in Justin's account of that situation, was that Josh was considered to have great promise to become a leader - not just by JB but also by the elders of the church. Those guys apparently were really invested in Josh's specialness as chosen by God for greatness, or whatever it was. I'm just SMH over how they imposed this shaming before the congregation and almost medieval torturous punishment, for his looking at presumably adult/legal porn which IMO was way out of proportion for the "sin." And at the same time they were also endorsing his special entitled status, which placed him above his siblings and apparently other kids his age too. Oh yeah, and he got breaks from his days of solitary physical hard labor on the farm, when he was brought back to the family home when TLC was filming, then back to the slog when the camera crew left. That is so many ways of effed up, I just can't with it. @Churchhoney talked about it more eloquently than I can. Just, wow. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Jeeves
For clarity.

[crazycatlady58]

12 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

IIRC the situation the podcast guy experienced, was when Josh was caught viewing porn on the political campaign computer. His family had started attending the Duggars' church by then. He talked about the church drama around that, and that Michelle and the Duggar daughters were in floods of tears  at church services over it.

IIRC, the podcast guy (Justin) said that at that time he didn't know about the molestations, which had happened in the past, I think before his family started going to the Duggars' church. Josh's pond-clearing punishment was for the porn-viewing. 

One thing that struck me in Justin's account of that situation, was that Josh was considered to have great promise to become a leader - not just by JB but also by the elders of the church. Those guys apparently were really invested in Josh's specialness as chosen by God for greatness, or whatever it was. I'm just SMH over how they imposed this shaming before the congregation and almost medieval torturous punishment, for his looking at presumably adult/legal porn which IMO was way out of proportion for the "sin." And at the same time they were also endorsing his special entitled status, which placed him above his siblings and apparently other kids his age too. Oh yeah, and he got breaks from his days of solitary physical hard labor on the farm, when he was brought back to the family home when TLC was filming, then back to the slog when the camera crew left. That is so many ways of effed up, I just can't with it. @Churchhoney talked about it more eloquently than I can. Just, wow. 

Because of things like this we will never know if Josh would have ever been ' normal ', how much of how he is now is due to home being born messed up and how much was caused by the way he was raised. 

[auntieminem]

@Jeeves, thanks for the clarification. You are correct. I was sure I had read the girls had to forgive him but they did not have to confess to "tempting" him.  So much bad Josh stuff to keep straight.  I was thinking the molestation was not brought before the whole church but just a few leaders and he was sent off for counseling (which consisted of free labor for one of the leaders at one of their centers). Didn't Jill and Jessa (on the interview with MK) say how changed he was when he returned home (big eye roll).  Of course, no mention of the porn viewing and it was before Ashley Madison stuff came out.  What a messed up family. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by auntieminem