Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[emmawoodhouse]

Well, sister Michelle married at barely 18. Jessica was actually a little older when she married, but that didn't work out for whatever reasons. I haven't heard about Danielle in a relationship. I think she's the only other sister of age.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Well, sister Michelle married at barely 18. Jessica was actually a little older when she married, but that didn't work out for whatever reasons. I haven't heard about Danielle in a relationship. I think she's the only other sister of age.

Ah okay I don't know a ton about them, but the fact they actually seem to have jobs unlike their older brother has stood out to me. 

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

Ah okay I don't know a ton about them, but the fact they actually seem to have jobs unlike their older brother has stood out to me. 

That is true! The girls are hard workers. Ben just scrapes by with the bare minimum. Don't forget, it took him 6 years to complete college. 

[Suzn]

12 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah I don't feel sorry for either one of them. I do feel sorry for their kids, though. I don't think that's a fun house to exist in, even by Duggar standards. The passive-aggressive vibes and tension just radiate off both Jessa and Ben in still photos. I bet in person it's almost suffocating. 

I joked about my passive-aggressive ex-husband, but the rest of that story is that my personality would be more like Jessa's than the other Duggar women, bitchy and bossy in a nutshell.  That means I feel certain that she gets tired of dragging that lug around when she carries the responsibilities and makes the decisions.  However, like most of you, I don't feel sorry for any one but the kids.  What a stifling atmosphere they live in!

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I joked about my passive-aggressive ex-husband, but the rest of that story is that my personality would be more like Jessa's than the other Duggar women, bitchy and bossy in a nutshell.  That means I feel certain that she gets tired of dragging that lug around when she carries the responsibilities and makes the decisions.  However, like most of you, I don't feel sorry for any one but the kids.  What a stifling atmosphere they live in!

I'd have more respect for Jessa being a bitch if she actually got shit done. LOL Because sometimes you do have to be a bitch to get stuff done! But I just can't with someone who doubles down on her own ridiculousness when she gets called out for it or who thinks having a literal diaper mountain in her house makes her relatable. She seems to be a combination of ignorant and arrogant that I find particularly insufferable. If she'd lose either the ignorance or the arrogance, I'd have a lot less of a problem with her. 

As with all of the Duggar kids, except for Josh, I do tend to hold the spouses to a higher standard because they presumably were raised with higher standards. I've posted on here before that I think Jessa's parents did her a disservice by setting her up as the family enforcer, but she doesn't seem particularly interested in breaking out of the box she was raised in. And obviously Ben won't because that would require some effort. LOL

Edited July 23, 2021 by Zella

[Suzn]

5 minutes ago, Zella said:

I'd have more respect for Jessa being a bitch if she actually got shit done. LOL Because sometimes you do have to be a bitch to get stuff done! But I just can't with someone who doubles down on her own ridiculousness when she gets called out for it or who thinks having a literal diaper mountain in her house makes her relatable. She seems to be a combination of ignorant and arrogant that I find particularly insufferable. If she'd lose either the ignorance or the arrogance, I'd have a lot less of a problem with her. 

As with all of the Duggar kids, except for Josh, I do tend to hold the spouses to a higher standard because they presumably were raised with higher standards. I've posted on here before that I think Jessa's parents did her a disservice by setting her up as the family enforcer, but she doesn't seem particularly interested in breaking out of the box she was raised in. And obviously Ben won't because that would require some effort. LOL

I think you've nailed it.  She's trapped herself and can't back down.  There is a slim hope that circumstances can force her to do better.  There is strength in her not being meek and she may wield it to her and her children's benefit someday.

[Lurk]

On 7/20/2021 at 11:52 AM, Jynnan tonnix said:

Well, the Bible does have a couple of talking animals in it, but, yeah, I don't think any of them spell

There's a talking bush, too.

[ChiCricket]

On 7/20/2021 at 5:23 PM, Lady Whistleup said:

Both Ivy and Fern are mainstream names. 

You're right according to NameVoyager.  Fern is moving up the chart. 

https://www.babynamewizard.com/voyager

The name Ivy is way more common though. 😊

[graefin]

7 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

And Jessa and Jeremy together would bicker over each other while fighting for dominance, culminating in many nights of passionate hot sex.

These days, Jessa is too much of a hot mess appearance-wise for Jeremy to even cast a glance in her general direction.

I mean, can you imagine them standing side by side? Just think of it: Jeremy, in all his perfectly attired, coiffed, LA hipster glory . . . and then there's Jessa, with her Rapunzel unwashed and uncombed hair that's she's been diligently growing out since childhood. And who needs actual accessories (or a $200 blazer?!) when your glory can serve double duty and be used to accentuate your modern modest frumpsack that you got for a bargain at the consignment store?

[GeeGolly]

To me Jessa doesn't seem to be strong-woman-bitch, she seems more like mean-woman-bitch. But, surprisingly, I don't think any of the Duggar daughters are weak or meek and I don't think any of the husbands are in charge, except maybe Austin. I think Jessa does Jessa regardless of Ben's feelings or opinions. Jinger much like Michelle, likely calls a lot of the shots, but lets Jeremy 'take the credit'. Joy, to me, is the meekest, but I see it more as feeling unsure than meek. Jill, is strong, but seems to frequently ask permission to assert her strength. Even with Jeremy's arrogance and Derick's challenge to JB, I don't think they are strong and domineering husbands.

I see the girls as different variations of Michelle and I think they all married different variations of JB.

 

[LilJen]

11 hours ago, Absolom said:

So now that the kids have been at the hospital, at the big house, and presumably now back home with the newborn, they can pass along all the germs they've picked up this week.

Baby’s true name: Delta Superspreader Seewald

[lascuba]

8 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Jumping off on Ben's motivations in meeting the "hot" Duggar daughter. It's even worse when you consider that his parents actually drove him to the church to meet her. He was 17, and the Seewalds were ready to marry him off. 

So, Ben got his hot girl. But 4 kids in less than 6 years have taken the bloom off the rose. 

Ben's parents absolutely failed him, but my sympathy for that only goes so far. He wanted  a hot  wife who would gaze adoringly and fuck him on demand, which, fine, I guess, he was 17 after all. But he had the benefit of getting to know Jessa for a very long time by fundie standards. She never pretended to be anything but herself, and yet, he never let go of his fantasy long enough to pay any real attention to her. He doesn't get to be resentful now that he doesn't have the marriage he wants. He doesn't get to pretend that he was at all lied to, just because he assumed that of course everything would be different once they married. 

Ben didn't just want a hot fundie wife, though. He also wanted to use the Duggar platform to springboard his own fundie preacher career. I think THAT is the main source of his resentment. Like Derick, we went into this marriage with the eager expectation that he'd get to preach his nonsense all over TV and social media, not be muzzled by TLC to keep the gravy train going. He's been pissed about that for years, and I think that bleeds into his feelings about Jessa.

7 hours ago, Zella said:

Yeah I don't feel sorry for Ben, but his parents really did him a disservice by enabling that bullshit. I am not sure if his parents have changed too much, but his sisters have me wondering if they learned lessons from Ben's life and ran in the opposite direction. 

I've always gotten the impression that, while always very conservative Christians, the Seewalds were the "liberal" family of their extremist church, and Ben was the outlier who took it all way more seriously than his sisters, and possibly also his parents who maybe dabbled in fundie crazy for a while without being all in. I kind of see Ben as the Jill of the siblings, the super eager and earnest true believer who they love, but they still breathed a sigh of relief when he left the house.

[lascuba]

8 hours ago, Suzn said:

I joked about my passive-aggressive ex-husband, but the rest of that story is that my personality would be more like Jessa's than the other Duggar women, bitchy and bossy in a nutshell.  That means I feel certain that she gets tired of dragging that lug around when she carries the responsibilities and makes the decisions.  However, like most of you, I don't feel sorry for any one but the kids.  What a stifling atmosphere they live in!

100% same. Just the idea of living with someone like Ben puts me in a mean mood. Just be an adult and say what you mean, you passive asshole!

[GeeGolly]

I agree that Ben is passive, but I don't think he's completely passive. They have spoken about fights they have had, and how certain communication styles piss each other off.

I'm going to guess what we're seeing now, is not a checked-out Ben, but a Ben who is trying to create a 'good preacher' reputation, so he is keeping his non-religious life to a minimum on SM.

Jessa and Ben both seem to consistently miss the mark on reading the SM room.

[Churchhoney]

8 hours ago, Suzn said:

There is strength in her not being meek and she may wield it to her and her children's benefit someday.

But more likely she won't. 😁 She's got the Duggar arrogance in spades. And with arrogant Duggars, I think the arrogance virtually always comes into play when some other quality would be much the better option. 

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

 

I see the girls as different variations of Michelle and I think they all married different variations of JB.

 

That's probably quite true. But what a horrible thought. 

[Rootbeer]

3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

But more likely she won't. 😁 She's got the Duggar arrogance in spades. And with arrogant Duggars, I think the arrogance virtually always comes into play when some other quality would be much the better option. 

Expecting Jess to suddenly change and start using her powers for good is probably a losing cause.  She has used her will to get what SHE wants and there is no indication that she wants anything other than the life she has for herself and for her children.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

That's probably quite true. But what a horrible thought. 

Yup.

[Minivanessa]

28 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm going to guess what we're seeing now, is not a checked-out Ben, but a Ben who is trying to create a 'good preacher' reputation, so he is keeping his non-religious life to a minimum on SM.

Jessa and Ben both seem to consistently miss the mark on reading the SM room.

That's a good point about Ben's motivation as to SM, and makes sense to me. I can't find it to quote but somewhere around here recently someone mentioned Ben's venture into SM early in his marriage. He posted some pretty heavy and ardent religious screeds (and I think Jessa did some too) expressing his fundie religious beliefs. I vaguely remember reading a few that were reposted on this forum. They were about what you'd expect from a 19 year old know-it-all fundie guy - and IIRC not likely to convert anybody into believing in the correct Jesus. 

I think Ben's SM religious outbursts generated too much pushback for the comfort of JB and his TV family's brand, and Ben and Jessa stopped that kind of SM posting. The recent forum post I'm thinking about, mentioned this and said that instead of getting to use SM to become a famous preacher, Ben was muzzled on SM. I believe that's what happened.

These days, Ben likely sees Jeremy's SM postings and rolls his eyes at most of them. He may also hear negative opinions about Jeremy's SM behavior from people in his church/ministry activities. Unlike Jeremy, Ben isn't working his wife's huge SM follower numbers to advance himself in life. 

[lookeyloo]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

Ben's parents absolutely failed him, but my sympathy for that only goes so far. He wanted  a hot  wife who would gaze adoringly and fuck him on demand, which, fine, I guess, he was 17 after all. But he had the benefit of getting to know Jessa for a very long time by fundie standards. She never pretended to be anything but herself, and yet, he never let go of his fantasy long enough to pay any real attention to her. He doesn't get to be resentful now that he doesn't have the marriage he wants. He doesn't get to pretend that he was at all lied to, just because he assumed that of course everything would be different once they married. 

Ben didn't just want a hot fundie wife, though. He also wanted to use the Duggar platform to springboard his own fundie preacher career. I think THAT is the main source of his resentment. Like Derick, we went into this marriage with the eager expectation that he'd get to preach his nonsense all over TV and social media, not be muzzled by TLC to keep the gravy train going. He's been pissed about that for years, and I think that bleeds into his feelings about Jessa.

I've always gotten the impression that, while always very conservative Christians, the Seewalds were the "liberal" family of their extremist church, and Ben was the outlier who took it all way more seriously than his sisters, and possibly also his parents who maybe dabbled in fundie crazy for a while without being all in. I kind of see Ben as the Jill of the siblings, the super eager and earnest true believer who they love, but they still breathed a sigh of relief when he left the house.

The thing is with these folks and their "ilk", the human brain isn't even fully developed until the mid 20s - here is just one article that explains it much better than I could

https://raisingchildren.net.au/pre-teens/development/understanding-your-pre-teen/brain-development-teens

which means none of them were even ready to make a lifetime commitment decision.  And of course there are a lot of cases where this early decision turned out very well, but, in the Duggar and Duggar adjacent area seems like they had no good preparation in life anyway coupled with brain immaturity.  For many of us (not all) the decisions we made or would have made at 17 are 180 degrees different than what we would make at 25 or 30.  Not to say all decisions turned out bad but still something to consider.

[iwantcookies]

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/babyname.cgi
 

fern hasn’t been in the top 1000 since 2000

 

Ivy is 58 in 2020

 

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/babyname.cgi

[iwantcookies]

😂😂😂

[iwantcookies]

🪴🪴🪴

[BitterApple]

The pictures drive me batty as well. Aside from being uneven, the scale is totally off for the size of the room. It's like sitting in the front row at the movie theater. 

[farmgal4]

11 hours ago, Lurk said:

There's a talking bush, too.

I thought it was a talking donkey and a burning bush? 🤔 I’m probably wrong.  God knows I’m no Bible scholar.  I just sort of remember something about those two things from Bible School when I was a youngster, many decades ago.

[Adeejay]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree that Ben is passive, but I don't think he's completely passive. They have spoken about fights they have had, and how certain communication styles piss each other off.

I was surprised at how candid Ben was about them 'having difficult moments and seasons" in their marriage to the point where, "sometimes wanting to tear your hair out."  I can't help but wonder how Jessa feels about him being so open about their problems, because she strikes me as the type that likes to pretend that everything is always honky dory.  

[CouchTater]

This is something I've often wondered, and it's come back up again for me during the current discussion about Jessa/Ben and most of us not having a lot of sympathy for them.

At what point do the fundie kids lose our collective sympathy?  At some point Jessa was Ivy and Ben was probably some version of Spurgeon/Henry.   Is it marriage that pushes them into our zero f***'s to give category?  

My questions aren't critical of us snarkers, I'm legitimately wondering when the kids typically become unpalatable.

[crazy8s]

10 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I thought it was a talking donkey and a burning bush? 🤔 I’m probably wrong.  God knows I’m no Bible scholar.  I just sort of remember something about those two things from Bible School when I was a youngster, many decades ago.

yes on talking donkey - the story of Balaam's Ass.   Numbers chapter 22

[emmawoodhouse]

Interrupting to post some Fern pics 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CRrY9uoLS-e/?utm_medium=copy_link

[BetyBee]

24 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Interrupting to post some Fern pics 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CRrY9uoLS-e/?utm_medium=copy_link

Those are pretty cute!

[Absolom]

For me the turn to snarking on the "kids" is when they have their own children and begin inflicting the cultish attitudes and culture on another generation. 

[JoanArc]

51 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

"sometimes wanting to tear your hair out."

Cut a foot off Jessa’s while she sleeps!  Say the shelf decapitated it! 

[GeeGolly]

Oh Jessa, she's turning into Michelle. She's interpreting a newborn smile as a thank you to herself. Its always about the mom.

Fernie looks like Evvy Mae, with a smaller nose.

 

[Boston]

4 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/babyname.cgi
 

fern hasn’t been in the top 1000 since 2000

 

Ivy is 58 in 2020

 

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/babyname.cgi

There was the cutest little girl toddler in the grocery store today and her name was Ivy

[emmawoodhouse]

53 minutes ago, Absolom said:

For me the turn to snarking on the "kids" is when they have their own children and begin inflicting the cultish attitudes and culture on another generation. 

I start at age 18. Then they can be called out for their harmful beliefs. But of course, spreading them to the next generation is BIG reason to be critical of them.

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, CouchTater said:

This is something I've often wondered, and it's come back up again for me during the current discussion about Jessa/Ben and most of us not having a lot of sympathy for them.

At what point do the fundie kids lose our collective sympathy?  At some point Jessa was Ivy and Ben was probably some version of Spurgeon/Henry.   Is it marriage that pushes them into our zero f***'s to give category?  

My questions aren't critical of us snarkers, I'm legitimately wondering when the kids typically become unpalatable.

Speaking only for myself, I compartmentalize  my sympathy for the children they were and what I think about their personalities and actions now. Even at my harshest, there is a part in the back of my mind that feels awful at the potential their parents threw away. That said, that sadness doesn't stop me from snarking away when they're on their bullshit. I can't qualify every single negative thought and statement I make about these people with, "but their childhoods!" You can say that about pretty much every horrible human being that ever lived.

 

[CouchTater]

15 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I start at age 18. Then they can be called out for their harmful beliefs. But of course, spreading them to the next generation is BIG reason to be critical of them.

I like that you have a definitive age.   🙂 Makes things easier!

[farmgal4]

2 hours ago, BetyBee said:

Those are pretty cute!

The last pic is epic!  It’s like she just figured out that she’s a Seewald and was thinking, “Really?  This is the family I’m stuck with?!” 😖

[Temperance]

On 7/22/2021 at 5:22 PM, Zella said:

Yeah a lot of the guys I know who are like Ben actually like having a Jessa as a wife. The passive-aggressive ones will still resent the hell out of their wife when it conflicts with what they want or inconveniences them, but they never actively step up to provide any balance because the rest of the time they like the lack of responsibility. And truthfully a lot of them like being able to shrug off responsibility even when they dislike the decision because then they can always blame her because it was her idea, don't you know. 

I don't think Jessa and Ben are happy in their relationship, and I would find Jessa pretty hard to take in person. But she never really disguised her personality around him before they were married, so it's not like he was blindsided. 

The Bates husbands seem like this to me. Particularly Evan.

On the other hand, this is why many fundie women like Michelle, like having a headship.

[emmawoodhouse]

Evan doesn't strike me as whipped, and he's actually a hard worker. He's also friendly and outgoing.

He's the anti-Ben. 😁

[3 is enough]

Carlin and Evan are ditsy and immature, but I have to hand it to them- they both are willing to work, they don’t hesitate to help out (painting at Alyssa’s), and I think they are genuinely friendly people.  They seem much better suited to each other than Jessa and Ben.

Edited July 24, 2021 by 3 is enough

[zenme]

12 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Carlin and Evan are ditsy and immature, but I have to hand it to them- they both are willing to work, they don’t hesitate to help out (painting at Alyssa’s), and I think they are genuinely friendly people.  They seem much better suited to each other than Jesse and Ben.

I agree. I think a lot of times they get flack for their immaturity with that kid, but one of the things that I really like about them is that they laugh at themselves and they’re always so upbeat and try to have a positive attitude. I like being around people like that, so I like their videos. 

[Joan of Argh]

9 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

The last pic is epic!  It’s like she just figured out that she’s a Seewald and was thinking, “Really?  This is the family I’m stuck with?!” 😖

Exactly the last pic is a doozy! Love it! 😂

there’s a pic of Ivy from a few months ago making a similar face after biting into a cherry tomato that she thought was a grape 😂

[Kellyee]

Quote

Carlin and Evan are ditsy and immature, but I have to hand it to them- they both are willing to work, they don’t hesitate to help out (painting at Alyssa’s), and I think they are genuinely friendly people.  They seem much better suited to each other than Jesse and Ben.

I agree. I think a lot of times they get flack for their immaturity with that kid, but one of the things that I really like about them is that they laugh at themselves and they’re always so upbeat and try to have a positive attitude. I like being around people like that, so I like their videos. 

Carlin definitely comes across as more stylish and savvy, especially when it comes to the Instagram influencer/famewhore thing. I have a hard time seeing her and Joy Anna as best friends, but I guess it works for them. Carlin does need to add more color to her wardrobe, and ditch all the beige. But she definitely comes across as more modern and likeable than any of the Duggars. 

The other friendship I just don't see is Ben and Jeremy. They appear to be living on two different planets at this point. Ben seems lacking in any ambition at all, and Jeremy is a total Joel Osteen-wannabe famewhore. What do they even talk about?

 

 

 

 

 

[EVS]

In those pictures, I think Fern looks like Natalie from Facts of Life. 

[EVS]

The new Seewald name thread closed early. I was going to suggest The Seewalds: Benessa, Their Sons, and Their Garden of Sister Moms. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by EVS

[drafan]

On 7/22/2021 at 6:16 PM, BigBingerBro said:

"Spurgie, pull that Jesus necklace out of your shirt where I can see it and do your bulging downward eyeroll. But remember no touching the curls where I applied the gel before Ivy ate it. Now, to the left....no, the left!"

So how long do you think he's been forced to practice this look? Jessa looks pretty pleased he's nailed it.

[awaken]

10 hours ago, Kellyee said:

What do they even talk about?

Theologians and epistemological preaching 😴

[Kellyee]

Quote

Theologians and epistemological preaching 😴

Was Ben homeschooled? Jeremy has a college degree, doesn't he? Ben just seems so backwards, and Jeremy tries so hard to appear polished and cool. Jeremy is also a douche, but I don't see him wanting to even stand next to Ben in pictures at this point, or any of the Duggars. They don't fit the persona Jeremy is trying desperately to portray. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Minivanessa]

28 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

Was Ben homeschooled? Jeremy has a college degree, doesn't he? Ben just seems so backwards, and Jeremy tries so hard to appear polished and cool. Jeremy is also a douche, but I don't see him wanting to even stand next to Ben in pictures at this point, or any of the Duggars. They don't fit the persona Jeremy is trying desperately to portray. 

IIRC Ben was homeschooled and then went to community college, and after that, I believe he took online courses from Moody seminary. I can't remember if he graduated from Moody, but I think he did get his associates (two year) degree from community college.

If I'm incorrect, I hope someone will post the correct info. 

IMO Jeremy would rather open a vein than spend time in Arkansas, but if he had to be photographed with any of that crowd, Ben's probably his choice as the least obnoxious option. Jer obviously doesn't post/brag about Ben on SM - but it's possible he and Ben are in touch on some kind of regular basis. I'm sure Jer curates his life heavily when it comes to putting it on SM, and none of his SM points toward life in Arkansas.

OTOH maybe he and Ben never had a very strong friendship and have drifted apart. I thought that Ben was the one who first met Jeremy and then introduced him to Jessa, who decided Jer should meet Jinger. . . and the rest is history.