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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

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Zella

Zella

(edited)

I really don't think Jeremy wants to live the suburban commuter life. He wants to be a trendy influencer, and trendy influencers in his mind don't do things as mundane as live within their budget, work a 9-5 job, and leave in a practical suburb. 

I also think Jeremy has a real problem in wanting to be liked and admired and adored, taken to an extreme. I think that is why he makes an effort to cover his uglier beliefs and can't even negotiate with someone at a yard sale. That really limits potential careers, and I think is one reason why he is so superficial and surface-level on social media and why he is so drawn to the idea of being famous. He wants to be inoffensive while also standing out like a peacock. 

Edited by Zella
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fonfereksglen

fonfereksglen

18 minutes ago, Tasya said:

At that salary they would just have to move to a suburb. I live 30 minutes outside of DC on the Maryland side of town and I manage just fine. They could do just what Josh and Anna did. The cost of living in DC is only really bad if you insist on living in DC or the close in VA/Montgomery County Maryland side of things. If you move further south in VA or in PG, Howard, Anne Arundel or Charles County, you'll be just fine. 

Good to know there are still affordable places, though with a long commute.  We lived in AA County for 14 years.  The house we bought and lived in has quadrupled in price since the initial purchase!  

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
2 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Tasya has a good point. I could see him as some kind of low-grade Christian lobbyist...where they pray together before they take the expense account out to the strip club.

Actually, it’s the perfect job for him. You don’t have to know anything and you eat out for free.

Dumbshit picked the wrong pond.

Well, as long as he was willing to start on a low rung of an organization, I think he could get a job.  As @Zella says, I don't see him liking that. And I'm pretty sure that will delay quite a bit his trying it -- He's going to grasp at fame straws for as long as he possibly can.

But the idea that you can't get a job based on a college degree and some post-grad work that's a few years old isn't entirely accurate, in my experience......

Plenty of athletes, for example, play several years in the pros -- maybe overseas, even, not necessarily on a team that Americans recognize and think is thrilling-- and then go out and get all kinds of business jobs, teaching jobs, starting administrative jobs of numerous kinds, using their three-to-12-or-more-year-old degrees.

In my experience, it's just not true that your degree has to be new for it to get you in the door of a company or other organization as long as you present yourself correctly and don't aim too high on the job ladder. 

People do understand the scenario in which you've been trying something else and now that's over.

And it's not just athletes I've seen that happen with. I've seen it with aspiring artists, actors, screenwriters, one stand-up comic. People understand this, and they can still think that your earning the degree back in the day is a credential.

As @Tasya said, this may well be easier if you're a white male. But among my acquaintance there are several black men and a couple of women who've done exactly this, in their 30s. Maybe some would-be employers refused to talk to them because of their aging college degrees. That's likely, I suppose. But not everybody did, because these folks got decent, sorta-beginner-level establishment-type jobs based on their old credentials.....And how they presented themselves when applying for the jobs, of course.

I think you probably are in trouble if you have to admit that you were just lying about for seven or eight years between college graduation and your establishment job hunt. But some people don't seem to worry about older degrees if you were actually doing something in the interim. 

Jer's interim resume doesn't look that great. But it's not entirely empty, either. And he is clearly good at convincing people to give him things, including jobs....

For Jer to get a real-life-type job, I think his main barrier would be getting over himself. 

For him to get the kind of paying position he'd like -- one where you bring in a big salary just by standing around while others admire you -- he'll need some big dummy to come along and hire him because he loves being flattered.......

That may actually be more likely than his getting over himself, though, come to think of it. 😁

Edited by Churchhoney
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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

16 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

For him to get the kind of paying position he'd like -- one where you bring in a big salary just by standing around while others admire you -- he'll need some big dummy to come along and hire him because he loves being flattered......

Just think, if he’d gone to D.C. instead of Hollywood he’d have a cabinet position by now...

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

(edited)
7 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Just think, if he’d gone to D.C. instead of Hollywood he’d have a cabinet position by now...

Other than signing that heinous anti-human rights petition, Jeremy hasn't seemed all that political. I mean, he obviously keeps most of his ugliness hidden, but he's never been overtly political like his in-laws.

Edited by Sew Sumi
anti aging? WTF autocorrect?????
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Zella

Zella

5 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Other than signing that heinous anti-aging rights petition, Jeremy hasn't seemed all that political. I mean, he obviously keeps most of his ugliness hidden, but he's never been overtly political like his in-laws.

I think he is too thin-skinned to ever put himself in that position. Not that the Duggars aren't thin-skinned--they are--but I think Jeremy has a real aversion to being outed as the asshole he is. 

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Zella

Zella

5 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I think it's more fear. How much of an audience will be have for his career as an influencer if the ugliness within is public knowledge?

Oh yeah that's probably true too, but I was also struck by how useless he was at negotiating at a yard sale in the one and only episode I watched. He seemed deeply uncomfortable with being put in the position of being the "bad guy," to the point that he was willing to get rid of stuff for peanuts rather than have to bicker with someone about the price.

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PikaScrewChu

PikaScrewChu

On 12/18/2019 at 6:25 PM, MonicaM said:

Jinger clearly fell fast for RFP.  I can't say this for certain, of course, but I believe there was a genuine "danger" of her marrying him with or without the support and approval of JB.  My take on the matter is that JB decided that rather than lose complete control, he would go along with the marriage, but put RFP on the hot seat and make him uncomfortable at every opportunity.

He failed to foresee that those opportunities would be few and far between.  RFP is doing everything in his power to become rich and famous without JB.  Whether he's successful in that remains to be seen, but spending his life answering to a domineering father-in-law has never been a part of RFP's plan.  Can't stand the guy, but I do like how he's probably infuriating JB.

Marrying Jinger off to Jeremy was just a business transaction in my opinion. First wedding of Counting On. People magazine spread. I think they were also hurrying to marry off Jinger and Joy before the 2 year limitations on suing In Touch was up. The filing before Joy's wedding was really suspect. 

Jeremy just happened to be in the right place at the right time. He was the lucky winner on The Bride is Right.

We will see how it all plays out. Jeremy still has some gas in the tank for awhile. He and Jinger have gotten the taste for the LA lifestyle. I do not see either of them giving it up that easily. 

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Zella

Zella

14 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

He and Jinger have gotten the taste for the LA lifestyle. I do not see either of them giving it up that easily. 

For sure! I think he'd fight against being dragged back to the Philly suburbs just as much as Jinger would being dragged back to Arkansas. And I don't think either of them wants to go back to Laredo.

There's nothing wrong with them wanting to live in LA if they like it, but I don't think the lifestyle they are envisioning there for themselves is really sustainable. 

Also not related but related: Today, I saw a business vehicle with the initials RFP and just about died laughing. 

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PikaScrewChu

PikaScrewChu

1 hour ago, Pingaponga said:

Isn't this at least the second year in a row they are celebrating Christmas with his family? As travel would be involved either way, it's odd they aren't at least alternating with her family. If it were me, I'd be wanting to celebrating with my family at least every other year.

The Duggar clan seems detached from big Christmas celebrations. It seems every other year half the clan is on some sort of missioncation.

It was only around the time of the TeeVee show that they started having a tree and the like. 

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OpieTaylor

OpieTaylor

(edited)
2 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

Isn't this at least the second year in a row they are celebrating Christmas with his family? As travel would be involved either way, it's odd they aren't at least alternating with her family. If it were me, I'd be wanting to celebrating with my family at least every other year.

I think that they did spend actual Christmas day with RFP's parents, but then went to Arkansas shortly thereafter - within days after Xmas [see edit below]. If that didn't happen last year, then maybe it was the year before. 

ETA: I looked at Jinger's Instagram and they were in Arkansas in early January, so not as soon after Xmas as I thought.

Edited by OpieTaylor
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Christina87

Christina87

5 hours ago, OpieTaylor said:

I think that they did spend actual Christmas day with RFP's parents, but then went to Arkansas shortly thereafter - within days after Xmas [see edit below]. If that didn't happen last year, then maybe it was the year before. 

ETA: I looked at Jinger's Instagram and they were in Arkansas in early January, so not as soon after Xmas as I thought.

I guess when nobody has a job, Christmas can be spread out for quite a while! And the sad thing is that Jeremy did have a job, but just never went. 

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Tasya

Tasya

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1 hour ago, floridamom said:

I noticed in the Grandma Duggar funeral episode that Jinger brought her 'ugly' clothes, side hugged her father goodbye quite coldly AND seemed quite uncomfortable being back there. She, like her ultra fashionable husband, couldn't wait to get out of there. Did anyone else notice these things?

I don't blame her. Her parents are abhorrent. Why should she want to be there? They allowed her to be abused by her brother and forced her to keep quiet about it for years. They raised her abusively and are responsible for how indoctrinated she is and everything that people find loathsome about her belief system can be attributed to them.

I think that's why I give all of them (adult Duggars) some slack. These "adults" are victims. They have been systematically abused for their entire lives and brainwashed into believing that there is only one way to be a "good" person. I know that they have to be held accountable for some of what they say/support/believe in, but so much of it is the fault of JB and Michelle. I am still hopeful that eventually some of them will see their way to true Christianity, not the hatefulness of Christian fundamentalism. 

 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
10 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

Isn't this at least the second year in a row they are celebrating Christmas with his family? As travel would be involved either way, it's odd they aren't at least alternating with her family. If it were me, I'd be wanting to celebrating with my family at least every other year.

I think it may depend a lot on who your family is!

When the breakout stars of the family of origin are Jim Bob and Meeeechelle.....Well, let's just say I wouldn't sweat it if I somehow found that I could spend no holiday time with them at all. 

And I don't know that many of the Duggarling sibs are particularly close, despite the family mythology. The Howlers and Joy may be or maybe the Lost Girls.....But accounts of the older sibs often seem to portray them as pretty awkward when they're trying to pretend they're having a friendly, fun conversation with each other. 

Plus, since nobody in the Duggarling clan goes to school or really has a job, they show up for (mostly televised) visits at each other's homes at other times of year. It's not like a situation where you really wouldn't see the people except for Christmas....

Of course, it's not Christmas yet, either, so we don't really know who they'll be spending it with, or where, do we? 

Edited by Churchhoney
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OpieTaylor

OpieTaylor

9 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Of course, it's not Christmas yet, either, so we don't really know who they'll be spending it with, or where, do we? 

My thoughts too - perhaps RFP's parents are only visiting for this weekend. Because isn't father Vuolo a pastor? I assume he has a church/congregation that's going to have Xmas services, but maybe someone else will be leading those services. 

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Suzn

Suzn

3 hours ago, Tasya said:

I don't blame her. Her parents are abhorrent. Why should she want to be there? They allowed her to be abused by her brother and forced her to keep quiet about it for years. They raised her abusively and are responsible for how indoctrinated she is and everything that people find loathsome about her belief system can be attributed to them.

I think that's why I give all of them (adult Duggars) some slack. These "adults" are victims. They have been systematically abused for their entire lives and brainwashed into believing that there is only one way to be a "good" person. I know that they have to be held accountable for some of what they say/support/believe in, but so much of it is the fault of JB and Michelle. I am still hopeful that eventually some of them will see their way to true Christianity, not the hatefulness of Christian fundamentalism. 

 

At what point can you hold adults responsible for their actions and beliefs, regardless of their miserable childhoods?  It appears that these young adults are raising their children not that differently that they were raised.  I see things that I consider brainwashing in the forced memorization of the bible by toddlers.

Who is responsible for making Jim Bob and Michelle monsters?  Was there something in their upbringing that damaged them?  Do we let them off the hook if so?

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SMama

SMama

(edited)
12 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

Isn't this at least the second year in a row they are celebrating Christmas with his family? As travel would be involved either way, it's odd they aren't at least alternating with her family. If it were me, I'd be wanting to celebrating with my family at least every other year.

But is your family like the Duggars? Would you like to be part of that mess. SGirl is twelve and still has a bedtime, and a set schedule. I can’t imagine being in that train station, with all the over the top noise. Maybe Jinger has learned she enjoys low key celebrations?

ETA: Is that a palm tree in the background?

Edited by SMama
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Tasya

Tasya

2 minutes ago, Suzn said:

At what point can you hold adults responsible for their actions and beliefs, regardless of their miserable childhoods?  It appears that these young adults are raising their children not that differently that they were raised.  I see things that I consider brainwashing in the forced memorization of the bible by toddlers.

Who is responsible for making Jim Bob and Michelle monsters?  Was there something in their upbringing that damaged them?  Do we let them off the hook if so?

That's why I said that they definitely do have to be held accountable for some things. I think for me the line is when they start publicly proclaiming really vile things. It's one thing when we just "know" that they have these beliefs because that's how they were raised, but when it becomes overt, it's too much. Like Derek going after Jazz (not an actual Duggar but that's the best example). JB and Michelle were raised by normal people, even if there were some issues, they weren't (to our knowledge) systematically indoctrinated in hate and intolerance, the way the Duggar 2nd generation has been.

I just sincerely hope for the sake of the Duggar 3rd generation that things are still able to be changed. There are plenty of Christians who may not believe in homosexuality but still accept homosexual people. There are plenty of Christians that may not themselves have an abortion but still believe in others' right to choose. Maybe there is some hope left that Duggers 2.0 can still get there. 

Just now, Tasya said:

I see things that I consider brainwashing in the forced memorization of the bible by toddlers.

I don't agree with this. Teaching your child the bible is no different than a young child that remembers "Goodbye Moon". My son knows certain bible passages by heart because we've focused on them and reread them repeatedly. He can also recite Green Eggs and Ham.

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JustRosie

JustRosie

(edited)
37 minutes ago, Tasya said:

That's why I said that they definitely do have to be held accountable for some things. I think for me the line is when they start publicly proclaiming really vile things. It's one thing when we just "know" that they have these beliefs because that's how they were raised, but when it becomes overt, it's too much. Like Derek going after Jazz (not an actual Duggar but that's the best example). JB and Michelle were raised by normal people, even if there were some issues, they weren't (to our knowledge) systematically indoctrinated in hate and intolerance, the way the Duggar 2nd generation has been.

I just sincerely hope for the sake of the Duggar 3rd generation that things are still able to be changed. There are plenty of Christians who may not believe in homosexuality but still accept homosexual people. There are plenty of Christians that may not themselves have an abortion but still believe in others' right to choose. Maybe there is some hope left that Duggers 2.0 can still get there. 

I don't agree with this. Teaching your child the bible is no different than a young child that remembers "Goodbye Moon". My son knows certain bible passages by heart because we've focused on them and reread them repeatedly. He can also recite Green Eggs and Ham.

That’s a good point about the 3rd generation. It will be interesting to see what paths, beliefs and attitudes they adopt when they become adults. 

Edited by Namaste
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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

19 minutes ago, Tasya said:

I don't agree with this. Teaching your child the bible is no different than a young child that remembers "Goodbye Moon". My son knows certain bible passages by heart because we've focused on them and reread them repeatedly. He can also recite Green Eggs and Ham.

There is a huge difference between a child being able to "read" a book that you have read to them over and over and over again' and what Jill and Jessa have made Izzy and Spurge do.  When your child can recite Green Eggs and Ham or an age-appropriate Bible verse it comes from a place of love, and it is spontaneous.  Your child knows the words on a page because you the parent have done the job to bond with them and the time spent reading to your child is a positive experience.  Your child remembers the words you have spoken because you have positively reinforced them.  It is also a byproduct of your time spent with your child and not the main goal.  

Those videos of Izzy and Spurge are the complete opposite of what I have just described.  Izzy looked fearful because he was anticipating what would happen when he failed.  They did not learn those words in a loving and positive way, and it shows.  

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FizzyPuff

FizzyPuff

13 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

Isn't this at least the second year in a row they are celebrating Christmas with his family? As travel would be involved either way, it's odd they aren't at least alternating with her family. If it were me, I'd be wanting to celebrating with my family at least every other year.

If the Duggars were my family I wouldn’t spend Christmas with them, run Jinger run! 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

Psalm 1, below, appears to be one of the first, if not the first, passages they have the kids recite, and in this KJV version, too.  We've seen it with Josie, Izzie, and Spurge. All clueless about what they were babbling -- and rightly so. 

Moreover, I'd bet that most of the grown-up Duggars can't give a clear account of what it means either. So, really, it's witchin' and wizardin' words for them, no matter what they pretend. And for all they object to stuff like Harry Potter as well. They're just drilling those magic spells into kids' heads (and -- possibly! --  their own heads). 

Psalm 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

6 For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

 

"Nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful," indeed. 

And of course the message can be interpreted as "We're eternally great and the people who aren't like us are going to hell. Ha ha!" Wonderful sentiment to start off your kid's indoctrination with. 

So I suppose it's lucky there's no chance the little kids could figure out what it means. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Suzn

Suzn

45 minutes ago, Tasya said:

That's why I said that they definitely do have to be held accountable for some things. I think for me the line is when they start publicly proclaiming really vile things. It's one thing when we just "know" that they have these beliefs because that's how they were raised, but when it becomes overt, it's too much. Like Derek going after Jazz (not an actual Duggar but that's the best example). JB and Michelle were raised by normal people, even if there were some issues, they weren't (to our knowledge) systematically indoctrinated in hate and intolerance, the way the Duggar 2nd generation has been.

I just sincerely hope for the sake of the Duggar 3rd generation that things are still able to be changed. There are plenty of Christians who may not believe in homosexuality but still accept homosexual people. There are plenty of Christians that may not themselves have an abortion but still believe in others' right to choose. Maybe there is some hope left that Duggers 2.0 can still get there. 

I don't agree with this. Teaching your child the bible is no different than a young child that remembers "Goodbye Moon". My son knows certain bible passages by heart because we've focused on them and reread them repeatedly. He can also recite Green Eggs and Ham.

I've watched Izzy and Spurgeon stumbling over saying things they have no understanding of and it looks like brainwashing to me.  YMMV.

I doubt that Jim Bob and Michelle just happened in a vacuum.  What created them is apparently unknown..

Something I can give no slack to, in addition to your example of "publicly proclaiming really vile things" is their constantly holding themselves up as role models and experts in marriage, parenting and sex.  They not only seem to have little if any self-awareness of how deeply screwed up they are but appear to believe that they have all the answers in their perfect lives.

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MonicaM

MonicaM

4 hours ago, Tasya said:

 

I think that's why I give all of them (adult Duggars) some slack. These "adults" are victims. They have been systematically abused for their entire lives and brainwashed into believing that there is only one way to be a "good" person. I know that they have to be held accountable for some of what they say/support/believe in, but so much of it is the fault of JB and Michelle. I am still hopeful that eventually some of them will see their way to true Christianity, not the hatefulness of Christian fundamentalism. 

 

I could cut them a lot more slack if they weren't so smug and in your face with their "wholesomeness", fertility, and job free lifestyles.  

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doodlebug

doodlebug

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

I've watched Izzy and Spurgeon stumbling over saying things they have no understanding of and it looks like brainwashing to me.  YMMV.

I doubt that Jim Bob and Michelle just happened in a vacuum.  What created them is apparently unknown..

Something I can give no slack to, in addition to your example of "publicly proclaiming really vile things" is their constantly holding themselves up as role models and experts in marriage, parenting and sex.  They not only seem to have little if any self-awareness of how deeply screwed up they are but appear to believe that they have all the answers in their perfect lives.

Exactly.  Memorizing Bible verses, especially in Olde English, that refer to concepts that a child could not possibly understand is far different than a kid who has heard 'Green Eggs and Ham' a dozen times and is able to repeat it from memory because 1. it rhymes and 2. the story is understandable and funny to the typical pre-schooler.  The latter happens naturally from a sense of fun and imagination, the former because mom and dad insist.

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Fig Newton

Fig Newton

In foreign language class (junior and senior high school) , we had to memorize dialogues. We had no clue what they meant, what was being said, or what we were to do with them. Until finals time, when we had to just recite it to our teacher.

I see memorizing bible verses as the same thing. Memorize to recite. Period.

Guess what? 30 years later I still remember the dialogues we had to memorize. Just now, I have an understanding of what I was saying!

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Tasya

Tasya

I'm not going to get into this too much, because I think it's a theological issue, and I sense some religious hostility. Many Christians teach our children to rote recite so that they can learn their verses. They'll understand the meaning later, but we don't see a problem with them memorizing it now. I haven't seen the video with Izzy in question, but Spurgeon and Henry never look scared or frightened. I'll leave this discussion about this particular issue alone from this point on. 

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coconspirator

coconspirator

2 hours ago, Tasya said:

I'm not going to get into this too much, because I think it's a theological issue, and I sense some religious hostility. Many Christians teach our children to rote recite so that they can learn their verses. They'll understand the meaning later, but we don't see a problem with them memorizing it now. I haven't seen the video with Izzy in question, but Spurgeon and Henry never look scared or frightened. I'll leave this discussion about this particular issue alone from this point on. 

I didn't grow up memorizing verses but from a young age I was taught The Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary.  I didn't necessarily understand it at that age but I'm glad I was able to memorize it when I was young. I don't have any issue with religious families picking bible verses for their kids to memorize and recite, and don't take issue with families who don't do it. It doesn't strike me as abusive either way. *shrug*

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JoanArc

JoanArc

4 hours ago, Fig Newton said:

In foreign language class (junior and senior high school) , we had to memorize dialogues. We had no clue what they meant, what was being said, or what we were to do with them. Until finals time, when we had to just recite it to our teacher.

I see memorizing bible verses as the same thing. Memorize to recite. Period.

One of the howlers - maybe Jed! memorized an entire book of the bible. It was a regurgitation without understanding anything. Hard, but ultimately empty work. Perfect for a cult.

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SMama

SMama

49 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

One of the howlers - maybe Jed! memorized an entire book of the bible. It was a regurgitation without understanding anything. Hard, but ultimately empty work. Perfect for a cult.

IIRC it was Jer and he was rewarded with a $1,000. JB allegedly makes that offer to all the kids. At the time Jer was the only one to earn the $.

i know this is mean, but Boob is a cheap bastard. I think he thought no one would be able to do it, but he still got them to read the Bible compulsively. If that is the case, I’d have enjoyed watching the tightwad’s face handing over money. I wonder if the girls were included in the offer?

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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

1 hour ago, SMama said:

IIRC it was Jer and he was rewarded with a $1,000. JB allegedly makes that offer to all the kids. At the time Jer was the only one to earn the $.

i know this is mean, but Boob is a cheap bastard. I think he thought no one would be able to do it, but he still got them to read the Bible compulsively. If that is the case, I’d have enjoyed watching the tightwad’s face handing over money. I wonder if the girls were included in the offer?

 Jeremy Vuolo memorized an entire book of the Bible???

Of course, if that’s true and it cost JB $1000 I now have a better understanding as to why JB dislikes him.

Nope, it still doesn’t wash... is there some lost Duggar spawn named Jer that I just don’t know about?

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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