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S01.E01: Pilot

Drogo

By Drogo
in Vinyl [V]

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numbnut

numbnut

(edited)

Well, that was certainly cinematic. I only cared about Juno Temple's storyline. I'm not into Cannavale and all the Goodfellas stuff. Is this a show about the music biz or the mob? So much superfluous dialogue and scenery chewing. And why were they featuring 60s R&B? (It sounded more 60s than 70s.) Maybe I'll like Roadies better? I thought the last scene was a dream. How can he walk away from that with no broken bones? I'll watch another ep for Juno.

Edited by numbnut
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SeanC

SeanC

(edited)

Mick Jagger's son is a dead ringer for the old man.

 

The music industry stuff was reasonably interesting, so the sudden turn into covering up a murder seemed a bit unnecessary to me.

 

Also, 70s New York was disgusting.

Edited by SeanC
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Noirprncess

Noirprncess

Just finished watching. This felt like a long form music video but really lacked substance. I get the flashbacks to early in Richies career and life and LIKED, not loved the music. But, the pilot was way too long with a meandering storyline.

It was already predictable since many of those who survived that period have written books, movies or Behind the Music tv show episodes about that period.

Loved Bobby Carnivale and was even surprised by a slimy Andrew Dice Clay performance but neither can save this bloated mess of a script.

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Slade347

Slade347

It was too long, should have probably just been an hour or a little longer. The music business, and that era in particular, is always going to be a draw for me, so there's enough there for me to keep watching. It helps that the acting was pretty terrific all the way around.

 

One thing that pulled me out of the story was the casting of Peter Grant, whose whole persona was predicated on his hulking size (6′ 5″, 300 lbs) that he used to great intimidation. That was a serious misstep in casting. 

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LoveLeigh

LoveLeigh

I couldn't make it through more than 25 minute of this show. It was trying way too hard.

I agree with pivot. There are so many shows on TV, and if a new show does not grab me within the first hour, I am done. This show offered nothing worthy of two hours of my time. 

 

I felt the same way about Billions. I felt like I was forcing myself to watch Vinyl. Is that any way to watch TV?  

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MeloraH

MeloraH

(edited)

The perspective of the Record Exec is the platonic ideal of the wrong way to tell the story of punk and hip hop. Just my knowledge of The Clash's contract with Sony is enough to know that. Unless you go the Def Jam route which would probably be interesting. Also in the late 70's The Stones were basically a dinosaur from the perspective of up and coming groups. Why not get Jagger to produce a show about 60's London? Like I wouldn't get Elvis (if he were still alive) to produce a show about a Stones-esque group.

Edited by MeloraH
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HelenBaby

HelenBaby

We didn't stick with this very long. Maybe I'm mistaken, but this started in 1973 and I don't remember punk/glam rock or hip hop taking off until a few years later. But I didn't know everything about music. Come to think about it I did know about Roxy Music around that time but it hadn't seemed to take off until a couple of years later.

Anyway, it's seems like Cannavale likes to take risky roles and good for him. I just don't enjoy watching drug and alcohol fueled characters as the anti heroes. Brings up too many bad real life memories.

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StevieRocks

StevieRocks

I agree with a lot that has been said here. I was disappointed, but I'll probably give this one more episode. I've looked forward to it, but it seems to have somehow missed the mark. I love Rock and Roll, stories about music and musicians, the 70s, and Martin Scorsese, so I was expecting this to blow me away. It did not. I also thought it would be a great successor to Mad Men, which I adored. Vinyl barely held my interest. I'm glad I watched it on demand instead of missing Downton Abbey for it. Huge disappointment. 

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Foghorn Leghorn

Foghorn Leghorn

I agree with a lot that has been said here. I was disappointed, but I'll probably give this one more episode. I've looked forward to it, but it seems to have somehow missed the mark. Vinyl barely held my interest. 

 

Agree so much with this part of your post!  One more episode, the first was hard to sit through at times.  Hundreds of people screwing everywhere was creepy and the building imploding yet he walks out happy without a scratch.  I did not feel invested in the outcome of any character.  One more episode.

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numbnut

numbnut

You can't do a story about the music business without doing a story about the mob.

 

Really? Every single record company no matter the genre was run by the mafia? That's a pretty big blanket statement.

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LiveenLetLive

LiveenLetLive

I wasn't planning on watching this but I might give it a go--I saw the Dolls many times in 1973 and in that part of the show (the only thing I've watched) the actors do a good job of getting their moves down, it is unfortunate that david Johansen elected to re-record his vocals, as someone commented on another forum he has "old man voice" now...

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Pike Ludwell

Pike Ludwell

(edited)

I might hang in for a few more episodes, but so far I'm not impressed. Scorsese did a good job directing, but this is the only episode he directs.

 

Richie is a self destructive jerk. I can't stand the guy or virtually any of the other a-hole characters. It centers on the goofiest aspects of the early 70s - massive cocaine use (I always thought it unbelievably stupid to snort a drug into your nose), heroin, and glam rock. In other words it centers on the direction the Stones took which I never liked.  Incidentally, I think the huge emphasis on Bo Diddley is a Mick Jagger contribution - he loved the guy but I always thought him boring as hell. Many other songs are 60s soul, lots of 70s punk.

 

I agree with other sentiment that a different musical period would be preferable. Also, make a few lead characters sort of sympathetic and not a bunch of idiots - that always helps.

Edited by riverclown
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reggiejax

reggiejax

(edited)
And then, at the end, when we're finally back where the two-hour premiere began, the venue the New York Dolls were playing in literally collapses on Richie? The whole six-story building?

The building that housed the Mercer Arts Center, where the New York Dolls played some of their earliest shows, did in fact collapse.

I haven't seen this, but just from what is described here, they clearly fictionalized it more than a bit. At the very least, I know the Dolls were not playing when it happened.

 

Really? Every single record company no matter the genre was run by the mafia? That's a pretty big blanket statement.

 

It is a stereotype, but we have to remember, stereotypes all rise from a kernel of truth, In this case, it is way more than a kernel. The mob did have its hand in the record business, at many levels. Even if a record label was squeaky clean, the mob still took its bite in ways that wouldn't require a connected guy being the head of A&R. And to be sure, the wiseguys couldn't give two shits about what genre the record label produced. If there was a dollar to be squeezed, they weren't going to let the fact that it was being squeezed from a label that produced polka or klezmer music stop them.

 

That said, one could easily do a story about the music industry and not involve the mob. But let's face it, in a story about a New York record label, run by a stereotypically sleazy exec, set in the 70's, and executive produced by Martin Scorsese, that is way too much of an expectation.

 

 

 

Maybe I'm mistaken, but this started in 1973 and I don't remember punk/glam rock or hip hop taking off until a few years later. But I didn't know everything about music. Come to think about it I did know about Roxy Music around that time but it hadn't seemed to take off until a couple of years later.

 

Punks initial breakthrough into the mainstream (if not necessarily success), is largely considered to be the release of The Ramones debut album in 1976. But of course the music itself had been gestating for years beforehand. In the context of this show, 1973 is the year Hilly Kristal opened up his club at Bleecker and Bowery, hoping to feature country music. Country, BlueGrass and Blues to be exact. Of course we all know it didn't work out that way. 

 

Hip Hop in 1973 was quite literally at the point of conception. What our protagonist no doubt hears is the moment a DJ (haven't watched, so I don't know if it is explicitly Kool Herc, or a fictional equivalent) decides to just go with isolating breaks and drum fills on James Brown records. As far as the commercial aspect of the music, we are a ways away. The 1979 release of Rappers Delight being the hip-hop equivalent to The Ramones debut album. 

Edited by reggiejax
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kgjbnme

kgjbnme

Yeah, I'm not sold -- I wanted to like it, but pretty much every negative or meh thing other commenters have already said, I'm saying too.

On another note: I find Bobby Cannavale completely loathsome, and if I have to see his disgusting mouth open for another second of screen time, I'm gonna rare back and puke at it.

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PamelaMaeSnap

PamelaMaeSnap

If the pilot results in a few dozen more copies of "Tasty" by the Good Rats being sold (the first album they recorded for Warner Brothers, released in 1974), it will be a win for me. I laughed my ass off at that scene. I did the majority of my underage club-going to see them. The other half was just going to see whoever was playing at CBGB.

 

Hard for me to be objective about the show ... we'll probably stick with it ... for me, grew up in Manhattan and was obsessed with music (local and beyond) and 1973 was really the year that it kicked into full gear (I think I recognized every album cover on the wall), and then later on through getting my radio license when I was 15, et al ... plus working in the music industry several years later (not now, though). 

 

For my husband, also a New Yorker and a musician, he was already gigging in the city at this point but more involved in jazz, blues and R&B so I'm actually probably a little more familiar with the songs being played than he is (Slade, Mott the Hoople, etc.). 

 

It's just fun, so far, picking out what we recognize (we've been long gone from NY). 

 

Only halfway through the first episode, though ... thought it was only an hour and budgeted for that during our lunch breaks today ... will watch the second half tonight. 

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magdalene

magdalene

I was underwhelmed and kind of bored.  I also seems unauthentic to me.  And I dislike the main character.

 

It didn't help matters that just the day before I had watched a documentary about David Bowie's various incarnations and influential records that was much more gripping and fascinating than this pilot.

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

Just got around to it.  There were parts I liked, but it was pretty damn long and my mind kept drifting during certain parts.  I noticed that the stuff I was mainly interested involved mainly the side characters like Jamie, Lester, and I'm even wondering what is going on with Olivia Wilde's character and that blonde woman.  But even though I like Bobby Cannavale a lot, I find Richie to just be another name in a long line of anti-heroes, who are brilliant, but also jackasses, go through a crisis of some kind, and will do what it takes to get ahead.  And another damn "Accidentally killed someone and trying to cover it up!" plot.  Wow, do I feel like I've seen that before.

 

I will say that I'm usually great with recognizing actors, it embarrassingly took me a few good minutes before I realized that was Ray Romano as Zak.  Man, he has changed or that was some good make-up.

 

Great seeing Ato Essandoh a.k.a. Alfredo from Elementary as always!

 

Not that I'm complaining, but I'm pretty sure at this point Juno Temple as been naked in about 75% of the stuff I've seen her in.  The Dark Knight Rises is the only one that pops into my head where she managed to not have to take her clothes off.  I guess that's her thing.  Like how Paul Ben-Victor is always a slimy bastard...

 

I'll stick with it, but it's not on the top of my must see list.

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Straycat80

Straycat80

Just got done watching this and have to agree with everyone else that it wasn't as good as I hoped it would be. The acting and music was good but it's trying too hard and there are no likeable characters IMO.

Will watch a couple more episodes to see if it grows on me but I'm doubtful.

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PamelaMaeSnap

PamelaMaeSnap

(edited)

I will say that I'm usually great with recognizing actors, it embarrassingly took me a few good minutes before I realized that was Ray Romano as Zak.  Man, he has changed or that was some good make-up.

 

 

This made me feel SO much better! I recognized his voice before I recognized him ... okay, before hubby said "this is such an interesting character for him to play" and I asked, "Okay, I give up ... who is that?" ... Because even recognizing his voice (or thinking "Man, that sounds like Ray Romano") I STILL couldn't make the connection that it was actually him. 

 

And I totally heart Ato Essandoh ... fell in love with him in "Garden State"!

Edited by PamelaMaeSnap
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Lonesome Rhodes

Lonesome Rhodes

Relentlessly dark and ultimately pointless.  Nihilistic.  "I don't give a fuck!" is the ethos of Dirty Bits dude, and of this series.  Right back at ya, Marty.

 

What I did care about was ADC's station mogul.  Oops.

 

I will cop to being captivated by the scene with Plant and Page backstage at MSG (was that The Song Remains the same concert?)  I was repulsed by the stylized LZ tune they were "playing" onstage.  If you are going to do this show, which is about the music if can be about anything, you spend the money on clearances.  To hear actual hits from the likes of Chicago, it is beyond jarring to hear the fake.  

 

What a horrible execution of what coulda, shoulda, been a contenduh.

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revbfc

revbfc

Yeah, it takes me out of a show too when the wrong music is used. My only defense for the producers is that the cost of using one LZ song could probably pay for a whole episode (maybe a couple).

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Eucrid

Eucrid

I would definitely watch another Rich White Guy Succeeds in business show. I've no problem with that but it has to be good and it has to be interesting and it would preferably have something new to it. This does not seem to have any of that. From the point where he says "you can hate me but I earned your hate" I was pretty much switched off, then about 5 minutes later I actually switched off.

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Hanahope

Hanahope

Wow, that was . . . awful.  Not to mention confusing.  I mean, we see Finestra 'stumble' on a show by the New York Dolls, which it seemed to me, was meant to imply that Finestra 'discovered' them (or at least their sound/look) at that show.  But later on when the assistant is describing the Nasty Bits, she refers to the Dolls, as if they're the big thing.  So if the Dolls had already been discovered, what was the point of Finestra's seeing them in the old building that fell down?

 

I agree that they show shouldn't have used Zeppelin if they couldn't get the music.  I get that Zeppelin is probably the most well known rock bank at that time, but surely there were others that they could have used who were also decently big acts.  Deep Purple? Aerosmith? Eagles? the Stones? (I mean, Mick was a producer of this dreck after all - use his music)

 

I had to laugh at that meeting with the talent scouts (or whatever they were called), that didn't realize how big Abba was going to become.  And I guess the Good Rats were really . . . something?  I've never heard of them.

 

I know this is HBO, so we have to have all the drugs and sex, but I thought it was a bit too much.  I really have no desire to see a bunch of guys blowing coke or otherwise high in virtually every scene. 

 

I also didn't care that much for all of the flashbacks.  It did explain the "relationship" between Finestra and Grimes, but it took forever to get there.

 

I'll give it another episode or two, but I'll need to see some real improvement.

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PamelaMaeSnap

PamelaMaeSnap

(edited)

"And I guess the Good Rats were really . . . something?  I've never heard of them."

 

They were a Long Island-based rock band that had real blue-collar workman appeal, and a lead singer/songwriter who had an amazing voice and was a great songwriter (he passed away not too long ago, and I think they were still playing every so often until his death). They had a very devoted following and if you grew up in NYC/LI or the general vicinity in the mid-70s you were probably familiar with them, but they never quite "made it" in terms of real commercial success.

 

ETA: I noticed that the title of Episode 4 is "Rats." Coincidence, I'm sure, but man, it would be awesome if that episode actually has to do with the band and they play one of THEIR songs ... I'm sure it would be easier and cheaper to get clearance from Peppi Marchello's estate than from Led Zeppelin. 

 

Honestly, the album "Tasty" STILL has legs, IMHO ... I was listening to it not long ago and was pleasantly surprised how well it stands up to my memory of how good it was (and the follow-up, "Rat City In Blue," also had some great tunes) ... 

 

I think one thing that probably hurt them was that they were ... well, not a really attractive bunch of guys LOL. If they'd all been pretty, or even had a few pretty boys, I bet they could have been huge. I remember I had a flyer on my wall from one of their concerts, and my mom's comment was "I wouldn't want to run into any of these guys in a dark alley."

 

Here are two links to tunes from "Tasty" to give you an idea ... 

 

 

Edited by PamelaMaeSnap
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zulualpha

zulualpha

Yeah, I'm not sold -- I wanted to like it, but pretty much every negative or meh thing other commenters have already said, I'm saying too.

On another note: I find Bobby Cannavale completely loathsome, and if I have to see his disgusting mouth open for another second of screen time, I'm gonna rare back and puke at it.

 

The building that housed the Mercer Arts Center, where the New York Dolls played some of their earliest shows, did in fact collapse.

I haven't seen this, but just from what is described here, they clearly fictionalized it more than a bit. At the very least, I know the Dolls were not playing when it happened.

It is a stereotype, but we have to remember, stereotypes all rise from a kernel of truth, In this case, it is way more than a kernel. The mob did have its hand in the record business, at many levels. Even if a record label was squeaky clean, the mob still took its bite in ways that wouldn't require a connected guy being the head of A&R. And to be sure, the wiseguys couldn't give two shits about what genre the record label produced. If there was a dollar to be squeezed, they weren't going to let the fact that it was being squeezed from a label that produced polka or klezmer music stop them.

That said, one could easily do a story about the music industry and not involve the mob. But let's face it, in a story about a New York record label, run by a stereotypically sleazy exec, set in the 70's, and executive produced by Martin Scorsese, that is way too much of an expectation.

Punks initial breakthrough into the mainstream (if not necessarily success), is largely considered to be the release of The Ramones debut album in 1976. But of course the music itself had been gestating for years beforehand. In the context of this show, 1973 is the year Hilly Kristal opened up his club at Bleecker and Bowery, hoping to feature country music. Country, BlueGrass and Blues to be exact. Of course we all know it didn't work out that way. 

Hip Hop in 1973 was quite literally at the point of conception. What our protagonist no doubt hears is the moment a DJ (haven't watched, so I don't know if it is explicitly Kool Herc, or a fictional equivalent) decides to just go with isolating breaks and drum fills on James Brown records. As far as the commercial aspect of the music, we are a ways away. The 1979 release of Rappers Delight being the hip-hop equivalent to The Ramones debut album. 

The show delivered on telling a lot of interesting music insider information which is why I'm watching it.  As far as the performances go, I wasn't all that impressed with the main characters although some of the actors with smaller parts were quite good.  The lead singer of the Bitz was convincing and the cute assistant at A&R who desperately want to get ahead was also good.  Andrew Dice Clay as the corrupt station owner/manager was quite good, sleazy and very convincingly coked out.  The scene in his home where he was messed up and making no sense definitely rang a bell for those of us that have had to try and have a conversation with someone drugged out of their mind.  Frustrating to say the least.  

A lot of Bobby Carnavalle's facial expressions, that kind of dead pan thing he did in many scenes, did nothing for me.  It didn't ring true and was boring imo.  There was also some blatant scenery chewing especially by the staff at A&R.  But all in all I'll definitely keep watching.  The scene has been set now so I think the show will move along a little faster.

The other disappointing thing for me that I think hurts the show is the lack of a black voice among the creators and from what I can see among the writers.  I really don't see how a show can be made about the music business in any era but especially in the 1970's without a black perspective.   A pretty big degree of authenticity has been lost I think.   Probably Mick thinks he's providing that black point of view but he's wrong.  He's not black and different people have different perspectives that can't be replicated by others who come from a completely different experience.  

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Ronin Jackson

Ronin Jackson

I love 70's music and Scorcese, so really I don't know how it can go wrong, but I'm not sure what to think at this point. The pilot was very watchable without being very engrossing. Scorcese is gone for the rest of the season presumably, so now there's just the 70's music. The plot turns towards the end were so bizarre... the murder and the building collapsing. I was sure the building collapsing was a hallucination until he crawled out of the rubble and walked out. I guess the collapse is partially based on something that actually happened, but nevertheless it sure felt out of left field from a narrative perspective. I get the metaphorical significance of it I suppose.

 

Now that other directors are taking over I wonder how it's going to progress stylistically. Will the rest of it feel like it's aping Scorcese's style? Hell even Scorcese's directing weirdly felt like it was aping his style, as though he's just going through his usual cinematic lexicon on auto-pilot. I'm almost sure to keep watching through the season so hopefully it finds a voice that feels more authentic.

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candall

candall

Paul Giamatti, Damien Lewis.  Bobby Cannavale finally carrying a show.  Andrew Dice Clay revealing serious acting chops.  Ray Romano having a great time going against type. 

 

How can these shows be such a chore?

 

Oh, right:  asshole overload.

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Hanahope

Hanahope

I think one thing that probably hurt them was that they were ... well, not a really attractive bunch of guys LOL. If they'd all been pretty, or even had a few pretty boys, I bet they could have been huge.

 

You're right, the two songs you linked are quite good, melodic, nice singing, but Yeeesh, they are definitely nothing to look at.  Maybe that's why New York Dolls and KISS all wore makeup, lol.

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right

right

(edited)

Most of these shows need a little time to find their stride.  I was reasonably entertained by the pilot episode and will continue to watch. Hopefully the pilot was a chance to introduce most of the characters and now they can concentrate on fewer story lines in future episodes.

 

Others have mentioned needing a few looks to identify Ray Romano, he was easy for me.  However, seeing "Vinnie Delpino" (from Doogie Howser) as an old dude with facial hair took me a little while.  Good to see he's still getting work.  Maybe they can bring NPH in for a cameo role, that'd be fun.

Edited by right
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pasdetrois

pasdetrois

I think Cannavale is an underrated actor so I'm hoping this series improves. Too much of him with his mouth hanging open.

 

It's fun to see the horrid 70s fashion. And, of course, to hear the music.

 

Tommy James of the Shondells wrote a book in which he talked quite a bit about how organized crime had a stake in his music, or perhaps it was in his record label. I think at one point he went into hiding.

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