S06.E04: Season 6, Episode 4

[romantic idiot]

I liked Talbot. He's different from Mathew but still interesting. He makes his interest n Mary clear but doesn't seem to take her seriously at all, which i think is good for her. 

[olivia1]

 

maybe watching them preparing a coup to expel the Downton ladies would be more fun to watch than this rehashing of the Violet/Isobel feud from earlier seasons.

Yes! Wasn't it last season that Violet was sad and upset that Isobel was going to marry Lord Merton leaving her without her best bud?

I really liked that friendship. Poof! Now it's gone and they are back sniping at each other again. 

[Eolivet]

Party of one, but I love the hospital subplot. It's given Cora more than she's had to do in years, and restored the natural order of "Violet vs. Isobel." Their zingers are fabulous, and involving Rosamund was great, too. I want to see Violet bring in allies, only to have them side with Isobel, and have Maggie Smith make that exasperated face. This is vintage Downton, to me, and I am here for it.

 

I actually like how they're playing Mary and Henry. I agree with whoever said it's like they're both pretending they don't care. Except I think Mary cares more than she's willing to admit, because she keeps downplaying how much she doesn't like the car racing. If he was "a toy she wanted to play with," I think she wouldn't have gone to London. The circumstances are different, and they haven't gone with the "sexual tension" aspect as much as season 1, but to me, this is vintage Mary: saying a lot more through what she doesn't say than what she does say.

 

I am loving this season so much -- except for Baxter and the constable. Unless this is Fellowes' clumsy setup for a Baxter/Moseley romance, I've had quite enough of Law & Order: Downton.

[Unusual Suspect]

Curse you Tom. You go all starry eyed thinking of Sybil and I go all weak in the knees. (And dusty in the eyes too)

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Oh Thomas, that's why you can't have nice things.

[Primetimer]

Only one of those faces is probably going to get frenched pretty soon though. Elsewhere, another household employee has a run-in with Sgt. Willis, and Daisy is still a pinko.

Read the story

[whatsatool]

Totally agree - she's rapidly becoming my favorite downstairs character now that Mrs Hughes er.. Carson er... Hughes seems to have lost her spunk in marital bliss. And while everybody is praising Mrs Patmore referencing Karl Marx I nearly lost it when she called Daisy 'Madame Defarge'!

Best part!

Edited January 25, 2016 by whatsatool

[TheGreenKnight]

What a lovely episode. Seeing Gwen again, Thomas and Baxter having a moment, Carson taking the name tag off his door, Mary throwing Edith a bone, and Violet so overcome with anger she couldn’t speak for once.

 

I love Rosamund’s interactions with Edith and the rest of the family. Too bad they didn’t think to give her a larger role seasons ago.

 

I had to laugh at Robert smacking Thomas down with, “Carson is a very nice man.” Sure.

[bmoore4026]

Now that Carson and Mrs. Hughes have hooked up, it's time for Mosley and Ms. Baxter to get some.  They're awesome!  I love 'em more than Anna and Bates.  Not that I hate Anna and Bates, it's just that Mosley and Baxter seem more interesting.

 

Oh, Gwen!  I remember you!  And you did right.  That's lovely!  It's like you saw the writing on the wall that the time of masters and servants was ending way back in season one, and now you're rich. 

 

Suck it, Thomas!  Suck it so hard.

 

I think this is the first time we've seen the Dowager Countess lose her cool, or almost do so.  It's nice that she's sticking by her guns, I guess, but it's going to be a losing battle.

 

Daisy almost fucked shit up for everybody.  Classic Daisy.

 

I see what people are saying about Allen Leech's weight, but I'm fairly certain it's padding.  His face isn't puffy and his head is still small.  We fat people tend to have big heads, which is why when a fat person becomes thin, they look like the old video game character Bonk.  Anyone else but me remember Bonk?  Turbo GrafX 16?  Late 80s-early 90s?  Just me?

 

Carson removing his name card from his old room door was sad and very well acted.

 

Also, how far away is York from London in terms of hours?

Edited January 25, 2016 by bmoore4026

[Amethyst]

Daisy's a moron.  I lol'd at Mrs. Patmore dropping truth bombs on her over and over and Daisy just railroading over all of it.  She didn't come across as a woman crusading for the non-privileged, but rather a petulant, bratty child who ignored the warnings everyone gave her.  I wouldn't have blamed Robert or Cora for going off on her for getting Mason's hopes up before they revealed the truth.   She got lucky.

 

At least that plot is over.  Like there was any question of Mason getting the farm, anyway.

 

Loved seeing Gwen again (what a cute hat!) and I'm glad she's living a happy life.  Thomas was petty as hell for what he did, so I didn't feel bad about it blowing up in his face.  Furthermore, it was great to hear Sybil mentioned with such love and respect. 

 

Thank goodness Anna's pregnancy is going smoothly now.  Can't take any more misery from her or Bates.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Man, I can't stand Bates.  Oh, Anna, just what exactly do you see in this creepy character anyway?  Sheesh, he is thoroughly charmless.

 

I love Matthew Goode, but so far Talbot is dull as hell.  Was that dinner supposed to be flirty/hot?  Cuz I was falling asleep.  Ugh, what's worse than a dull hot guy?  Well, I guess a dull ugly guy.  Hey, I know, I know, at least he is super-duper, really, really hot.  But seriously, what's with Mary & all these dull dudes?  The only hot interesting guy she can find is one that's related to her, & then he goes & drives himself into a ditch, so the actor playing him can disappear into a meh career?

 

I'm loving Andy (who is looking more adorbs with every passing ep) giving Thomas the brush.  Eh, Thomas is an a-hole thru and thru.  And no, I have zero sympathy for him.  I've been screwed over by too many Thomases, that I've had the misfortune of having to endure working with.  They can't fire Thomas fast enough for me.  Be gone, uppity backstabbing a-hole.

 

Could Daisy be any more annoying?  Er, I say no.

 

AL looks mighty yummy to me.  I'd take him a bit chubby (which suits him nicely) or fit.  He looks great either way.  I can kinda pick up on Fellowes' "hints", which are sorta like being slammed hard in the face.  Mary might as well have screamed "BROTHER" as loudly as she could.  The Fellowes translation is -- we ain't ever gonna hook up.  Just like Robert's grimacing in pain -- forewarning either dire illness or sudden death?

Edited January 25, 2016 by ScoobieDoobs

[izabella]

I understand why Anna hid everything about her pregnancies from her husband, but it really sucks to be her.  She always is afraid of how Bates is going to react to things, and is always walking on eggshells.  Instead of being able to turn to him for support and to share her fears and grief over her miscarriages, she feels she has to protect his feelings first.

 

Seeing Gwen again was lovely.

 

I'm going to call her Mrs. Carson, just to show I am more flexible than these Crawleys!

[lulee]

I think it's weird because Henry knows that the estate that George is heir to is now currently Mary's father's and that isn't typically the way that it works in their world which favors primogeniture. We know of course that there are other examples of women inheriting for one reason or another but for the most part the situation of Mary, Matthew, and George isn't terribly common.

Meanwhile George isn't styled as Viscount Downton because he's the heir presumptive. In theory Robert could still produce another son if he were to remarry at some point. Obviously this isn't going to happen but I understand why Henry might have been confused and why Mary made the comment.

Maybe I misread it, but I thought that Mary's comment about George being the heir to the title was meant to show that she was being opaque and holding back details, not ready to be open with Talbot.

And I agree that it seems hard to believe that Talbot wouldn't have heard about what happened to Matthew.

I do wish Mary would have mentioned George before heading to London with Anna, and some dialogue about Marigold this evening would have been nice.

Also glad that the doctor commented that the special trip in would be reflected in his bill to Mary, probably not as deferential to the landed gentry as at one time.

Edited January 26, 2016 by lulee

[blackwing]

I loathe Edith. She was so nasty to Mary at breakfast, oh whatever are you going to do now that Tom's back. So unnecessarily nasty. She deserves all of the bad luck and ill will she has received.

I like Mary's development. For once she demonstrated she has something she really is passionate about. And she realised what a horrible person she's been over the years, and that was evidenced by her compliment of Edith in hiring a woman editor. I like Henry Talbot and I'm assuming she ends up with him since there aren't enough episodes to introduce someone new, and all the people of the past seem done for good. Whatever happened to that Charles guy, Gillingham's friend? He bowed out since he saw Mary choosing Gillingham, but that ended, and he never thought to call again?

I can't stand Daisy. I really do wish she had barged in and ruined everything. Such an entitled little snot. I have pretty much hated this Elf Girl since day 1. Loved seeing her so jealous at Gwen's good fortune. Maybe if she was a nicer person then people would be nicer to her. I foresee a happy ending for her unfortunately. She's going to move in with Mr. mason and help him run the farm.

Thomas is such an ass. First as acting butler, he couldn't resist lording over everyone, and I'm glad that they gave him little respect and I'm glad that he recognised that they didn't because they don't like him. Was it me, or did he have an even haughtier tone than normal to his voice since he was butler? And he obviously meant to get Gwen into trouble since he was so jealous of her rise. I'm glad it backfired and I'm glad that Robert saw it.

I didnt know what to make of his conversation with Robert. Was Robert telling him to prepare to get fired? He said that Carson is a good man. Then Thomas said something like right, he will be ready to leave?

Unfortunately I see the foreshadowing. Carson moves out of his room that he has lived in for years since he was a young man. He moves on to a cottage. He removes the nameplate from the door. Making room for the next person. Which seems like it will be Thomas. Ugh.

[helenamonster]

Gwen! I for sure cried a little bit when she was talking about Sybil. I loved that storyline and seeing everyone's faces around the table as they listened...so beautiful.

 

And I feel like Gwen's relationship with Sybil, and how she still thinks about her and credits her for changing her life, is part of what spurred Mary to go up to London with Anna immediately. Not that she necessarily wouldn't have without Gwen's story, but I think she likes the idea of being able to change someone's life, which she honestly is with Anna. A successful pregnancy would probably not have been possible for her without Mary's access to fancy London doctors. Gah, they are my brotp, I love them so much.

 

Go fuck yourself, Thomas. He cares what everyone thinks about him? Well, you want to know why people think you're a raging douchebag? BECAUSE YOU ARE A RAGING DOUCHEBAG. I'm glad his attempt to catch Gwen in a lie both didn't work out and was obvious to Robert.

 

Why are they ruining Daisy? I loved her so much in earlier seasons. Why is she so annoying now? Did Sophie McShera kick Julian Fellowes's dog? Lol at Cora. "I have a feeling I've just dodged something."

 

I see I'm in the minority but whatever, I like Mary with Henry.

 

Lol at all the jokes about Sergeant Willis coming back to the house. Anna: "At least it's not us this time." Literally everyone else: "IS IT THE BATESES?!" I'm not sure if it makes sense, but is it possible that Peter Coyle could be the nephew that Spratt is hiding? Sergeant Willis said Coyle was out on bail and I think Spratt's nephew is an escaped felon so I guess not. Or maybe he skipped out on bail? I can't remember. He is a thief, though, that's what made me think of it.

 

"I haven't been down to the servants' hall in 20 years."

"Did you bring your passport?"

Edited January 25, 2016 by helenamonster

[CleoCaesar]

I'd totally forgotten who Gwen was, so seeing her again did nothing for me. Well, I did go "Oh crap, it's Jon Snow's annoying girlfriend" but that's about it.

 

Daisy's IQ continues to plummet. How low can it go?

 

I've had a crush on Matthew Goode for over a decade, so it's nice to see him in any capacity. I like that he isn't fawning all over Mary.

[AZChristian]

Have loved every minute of this season.  EVERY minute.

 

Got an e-mail from PBS that my DVDs should arrive on Friday or Saturday, so by this time next week. I'll have seen it all!!!!!  MARATHON!!!

[Amethyst]

Also, did anyone else hear Tom mention that he felt bad for stealing the spotlight from the Carson/Hughes wedding last week?  Guess the viewers weren't the only ones to notice it, hehe.

[TVFAN]

Things I loved . . .

 

• Tom's face when Gwen was talking about Sybil.  Those two were simply the best together.
• Finding out how well things turned out for Gwen thanks to Sybil and her own hard work.
• Anna making it to the doctor in time.  If I am ever in a spot, I want Mary and/or Violet to have my back.  They can and will move heaven and earth to help if they are on your side.
• Mary and Tom together again.  They support each other through thick and thin.
• Violet getting at least five minutes to explain why she is fighting the merger.  She has a brain and a point if anyone will listen.
• Mr. Mason getting a home.

 

Things I hated . . . .

• Daisy's continued whining.  I have always rooted for her, but for pity's sake shut up!  No one but you promised Mr. Mason anything.
• Edith's never-ending snakiness towards Mary.  Why assume that Tom's return ends Mary's tenure as estate manager?  And when she suggested during the "family meeting" about Yew Tree Farm that since they all favored giving it to Mr. Mason, Mary's views should not  even be considered, I was literally yelling at the TV, "They MUST be considered, you idiot.  Thanks to Matthew and Lavinia's money, MARY is half-owner of Downtown Abbey!  You, in contrast, are simply sponging off your parents and Mary.  You have no vote!"

[jschoolgirl]

BTW about the show porking up Tom: Look at this pic from last week. Is it just my (admitted) prejudiced view or does he look completely different than on Downton? What do they do with him on the show??

 

http://www.contactmusic.com/pics/ln/20151001/021015_casmigos_tequila_launch/casmigos-tequila-london-launch_4954481.jpg

Tom wears tweed suits, including a vest. That will bulk you up.

[HoodlumSheep]

I feel like nothing happened this episode at all. Besides maybe the Anna drama that lasted 5 minutes.

I want to throttle Daisy so much. And give a good dozen slaps across the face. She's atrocious. I wish she'd get fired.

Baxley!

Also, Thomas, people would stop hating you if you stopped being a terrible person.

Nice to see Gwen doing well.

Talbot's okay for now. If this is who Mary is going to end up with...they only have about 5-6ish episodes to convince me and I don't know if that'll be enough time.

Cora seems really snotty this season. I suppose she's in the right for the most part. Daisy shouldn't have been upstairs (and I'd love it if Cora gave her a smackdown and fired her) but I just feel like Cora's character has gone backwards in regards to how she's been treating the staff in the previous seasons.

Waitin for Lord Grantham to croak or something.

Did I mention that I loathe Daisy with the passion of a thousand burning suns?

If there's a Bates baby I hope it's a boy and they name it Norman...

[peggy06]

Daisy has got to go. She learned nothing from the episode at the auction. She just keeps digging the hole deeper, first by blabbing about something when Molesley told it wasn't certain, actually telling Mr. Mason, and then by going off to confront Cora. All her progressive talk is blunted by her foolish actions and lack of self-control. I wish she would up and go to London, or anywhere but Downton. What's galling is that they seem to be setting up a happy ending for her.  

 

I don't like the Dowager when she's on the hospital topic, but she was golden when grilling Lady Shackleton about Henry's prospects. 

Lady S.: About 40 hale and hearty men would have to drop dead before he would inherit the title.

Violet: Anything can happen.

 

Very, very glad Anna's situation turned out OK. Can the writers please let this pregnancy proceed without any more drama?

 

The wardrobes continue to impress. Loved Mary's pleated blouse in the scene with the doctor in London.

 

Thomas gets no sympathy from me. He proved what kind of person he is yet again, trying to embarrass Gwen. On that topic - Gwen is ... Ygritte? I never would have picked up on that.

 

The thing about Carson and Mrs. Carson was idiotic, and made the family look like numskulls. I felt bad for Mrs. Hughes.

Also, did anyone else hear Tom mention that he felt bad for stealing the spotlight from the Carson/Hughes wedding last week?  Guess the viewers weren't the only ones to notice it, hehe.

Yeah, I kind of hated that. I also kind of hate that they dragged Tom in again, since he has seemed superfluous ever since Sybil died.

[Mrsjumbo]

I don't love the idea of Baxter/Mosely romance. She seemed pretty angry that he went & talked to Cora about her situation without consulting her first, & was quite annoying trying to push her to see it his way.

Love Mrs Pattmore- Madame Defarge, Karl Marx, & "sweet mystery of life"- all made me lol!

I don't like the idea of a Tom/Mary romance either. Although it's a bit ironic that Henry races cars & Matthew died by car...

I really wanted Daisy to get fired.

I suppose Daisy is going to end up with Andy, as he's a country boy & they can take over the farm. Though God help the person that ends up with her!

I thought Cora again was being a B & a bit out of character when she saw Daisy in the hall. Like "how dare a servant be on this floor". In the past she would have been more inquisitive.

I hope Thomas doesn't off himself.

Loved the whole lunch scene with Gwen & I had forgotten about the whole Sybil connection.

[fourPLUSseven]

I feel like nothing happened this episode at all. Besides maybe the Anna drama that lasted 5 minutes.

I want to throttle Daisy so much. And give a good dozen slaps across the face. She's atrocious. I wish she'd get fired.

Baxley!

Also, Thomas, people would stop hating you if you stopped being a terrible person.

Nice to see Gwen doing well.

Talbot's okay for now. If this is who Mary is going to end up with...they only have about 5-6ish episodes to convince me and I don't know if that'll be enough time.

Cora seems really snotty this season. I suppose she's in the right for the most part. Daisy shouldn't have been upstairs (and I'd love it if Cora gave her a smackdown and fired her) but I just feel like Cora's character has gone backwards in regards to how she's been treating the staff in the previous seasons.

Waitin for Lord Grantham to croak or something.

Did I mention that I loathe Daisy with the passion of a thousand burning suns?

If there's a Bates baby I hope it's a boy and they name it Norman...

See? We aren't going to get anything juicy this season. It's all neat and tidy and oh-so-predictable. I am very disappointed. I also feel Mary will learn about Marigold at the very last moment. Bleh. So boring.

 

That said, I'm loving Mrs. Patmore. She gets such funny lines with Daisy. But we need some drama. That's what we need Mr. Julian Fellowes - drama.. 

[Mrsjumbo]

Oh, & I'm glad they did not stretch out the "Anna is pg, Mr Bates doesn't know" any longer. So tired of the way she is scared to tell him anything & it stretches on for episode after episode, when 1 conversation would clear the confusion.

And loved that Mary brought up the hated Ms Bunting up- as in, no more women like that please!

[SusanSunflower]

yes, Mary and Henry's dinner for two was supposed to be hot ... and it was not ... as written, it might have been better with closer camera work ... I think all of Mary's eye-fluttering is also supposed to suggest she's utterly smitten, and he's almost playing hard to impress. Yikes. 

Yes, Tom reacting to memories of Sybil was very touching, most touching moment in ages, and gave Allen Leech a moment to show off some genuine acting.

Tom's upper crusty accent is approaching Mary's ever more pronounced drawl ... which keeps seeming odd and "off" next to Cora, and Edith and even Violet. 

and even more striking is how much Robert now looks like Tom ... and Tom's metamorphosis into Robert's Mini-Me is complete. 

There was a lot of worrisome foreshadowing between Robert's bad tummy and Thomas' thwarted career and Carson's exit.... and Mr. Mason and Daisy ... More Change is A Comin' In...  

Everyone's paradise seems very tentative... Pls. more Rosamund, always. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[lucindabelle]

I was actually surprised by some things this episode which was very pleasant. Was sure would have to suffer thru Daisy complaining when she no longer needed to.

But ugh what a self involved chit she is. Everyone has told her and told her and told he nothingl as certain. The girls is in her late 20s by now. SHUT UP DAISY.

I love Baxter and Molesley together. He made the point I wish to heck someone had made to anna when anna wouldn't accuse Greene: you're allowing other girls to be in danger. And Baxter was annoyed but... She isn't angry.

Liked mary realizing she'd been "petting" about Gwen not speaking up sooner and how ridiculous that was.

Of course, the likelihood that Gwen would not only get a job but end wealthy and important is toTal Tory capitalist Horatio Alger fantasy.

[Crs97]

I found it interesting that for all the "Mary is such a snob" rhetoric on the show, she was the only one to recognize Gwen. She couldn't put a name to the face, but she knew they had met before. It seems very consistent with the Mary we have known all these seasons (dating back to getting William home to his dying mother).

[honeywest]

Always glad to see Rosamund, but she needs a new hairdresser.

[LittleIggy]

I was surprised that Mary didn't mention her husband being killed in a car wreck to the race car guy. BTW, I loved that metallic gold dress she wore.

[Knuckles]

Mary is Mary...and of course she has Anna's back...after all, who helped carry the dead Mr. Pemuk down the back hall when he unexpectedly croaked in Mary's bed.

For all the distinctions in class and in position, Anna is the closest relationship she has, and the closest to a real friendship. She has no girlfriends, nor a love interest, sans brother Tom, and she is isolated out there in Yorkshire. Certainly she has little feeling for Edith, except disdain. As for Talbot, they are setting this up, but it seems unlikely. There are no sparks there.

Edith has a better prospect in London.

Happy for Gwen who handled the awkward situation gracefully. Nice moment.

Mrs. Patmore is getting all the great lines...and yeah, go Madame Defarge on that ingrate Daisy...a good smack might get her to wise up or shut up. Either would do.

Sorry for Thomas...he seems determined to get himself fired. People don't like you...yeah, because you do unlikeable things...funny how that works.

Andy deserves better than Daisy...isn't there some lovely girl in the village for him?

I am enjoying this season.

[Ravenya003]

I found it interesting that for all the "Mary is such a snob" rhetoric on the show, she was the only one to recognize Gwen. She couldn't put a name to the face, but she knew they had met before. It seems very consistent with the Mary we have known all these seasons (dating back to getting William home to his dying mother).

 

Mary has always been very perceptive, and it's a trait no one gives her much credit for. I've recently watched season two, and she's the ONLY person at the dinner table that notices the kerfuffle taking place among the servants in trying to discreetly stop Branson from tipping slop over the head of the visiting corporeal. It's never mentioned again, but that the director went out of the way to include a shot of Mary noting there was a servant-related drama going on says a lot about her. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by Ravenya003

[Greta]

Hee, I hadn't thought of naming Baby Bates, Norman, but it would be perfect.  They should have a murderous demon baby who is suspected of four killings within hours of birth.  Perhaps Violet could point him in the direction of the 40 obstacles to another title for Mary.*

 

Oh, Thomas, you are so your own worst enemy and even you realize that. I did think he showed a smidge of concern for Baxter when the Constable showed up asking for her.

 

Daisy Defarge continues to be awful and also her own worst enemy.  You would think all those years in a kitchen would have taught her something about relations between flies, honey, and vinegar.  I hope Mr. Mason finds a nubile young wife and produces another heir to the tenancy.

 

*In the spirit of Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, I propose Death Dealers of Downton, an AU version in which elite ninja assassin spies are trained at the Abbey (while pretending to be servants) before being dispatched to kill inconvenient heirs. Even Robert couldn't mess up this very lucrative enterprise!

 

Also, perhaps I am crazy, but I swear Henry and Tom were the ones sparking off each other. Something about the way Tom joined the conversation and had more in common with Hot Guy seemed like Rom-Com Meet-Cute 101.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Greta

[madam magpie]

I found it interesting that for all the "Mary is such a snob" rhetoric on the show, she was the only one to recognize Gwen. She couldn't put a name to the face, but she knew they had met before. It seems very consistent with the Mary we have known all these seasons (dating back to getting William home to his dying mother).

Exactly. But then, I love me some Lady Mary.

I teared up when Gwen was talking about Sybil. Poor, dead Sybil, and poor us since she went.

Really hope Mary and Tom don't get together.

I like Edith, but damn, girl. Shut it.

Edith's never-ending snakiness towards Mary. Why assume that Tom's return ends Mary's tenure as estate manager? And when she suggested during the "family meeting" about Yew Tree Farm that since they all favored giving it to Mr. Mason, Mary's views should not even be considered, I was literally yelling at the TV, "They MUST be considered, you idiot. Thanks to Matthew and Lavinia's money, MARY is half-owner of Downtown Abbey! You, in contrast, are simply sponging off your parents and Mary. You have no vote!"

Amen.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Michelle Dockery is really amazing--she is to this show what like James Gandolfini was to the Sopranos. Never loses her character, never misses a beat, but develops so seamlessly as time progresses. Loved her in every scene tonight.

Did Matthew Goode lose the weight that Allan Leech gained?

Jeez the hospital plotline is boring. I wonder if Fellowes would kill that and the Bateses' eternal murder crap if he had to do it over again.

Gwen was adorable even though the whole entertaining a college treasurer at a Downton lunch because houseguest Rosamond is doing I don't know what for the college makes no sense including having the whole damn family there for it. Couldn't she just meet with himat the college?

So sick of Thomas's one-note story (nothing against the actor), and Daisy. And Mr. Mason is going to farm pigs, is it, all by himself at his age? Sure.

[magdalene]

That was a lovely episode. I loved seeing Gwen again and what became of her.  She and her precious type writer was one of my favorite early story lines.  Oh Thomas, I so dislike when he is petty like that but I just can't manage to dislike him all and all.  I had to roll my eyes when Robert told Thomas how kind Carson is. Yeah, right, only if you look at him with rose colored glasses.    I have no conflicted feelings when it comes to Daisy.  She has raised being an idiot to an art form. And here's to Mrs.Patmore trying to instill some common sense into Daisy.  Still, I am glad she didn't muck it up for Mr.Mason.

[Mrsjumbo]

2 questions- why did Mr Bates say to Baxter when she said it's none of their business about Mary "I agree with you FOR ONCE". When have they been at odds? Or is it just that she is friends with Thomas & he doesn't agree with that?

Also, if mr Carson & Mrs Hughes are staying in a cottage who is in charge of the male & female staff at night while they're gone? Who answers the door in the middle of the night? Will it fall to Thomas?

[AndreaK1041]

Letting Thonas be the new butler would be so ridiculous and go against the character of, well, EVERYONE. But, so is Downton, and so it shall be.

I loved this episode. The lunch was so well done and made me love Sybil all over again.

[Roseanna]

And I feel like Gwen's relationship with Sybil, and how she still thinks about her and credits her for changing her life, is part of what spurred Mary to go up to London with Anna immediately. Not that she necessarily wouldn't have without Gwen's story, but I think she likes the idea of being able to change someone's life, which she honestly is with Anna. A successful pregnancy would probably not have been possible for her without Mary's access to fancy London doctors. Gah, they are my brotp, I love them so much.

 

 

Come on, Mary had promised to help Anna. Plus Mary is always loyal and helps those she likes and/or who had done her service (burning Bates' ticket). After the Pamuk affair Mary owed to  Anna.

 

On the other hand, Sybil helped Gwen (who wasn't her fried before) of pure disinterestedness because she thought it right that she wanted to better her life.

 

Baxter is even better than Sybil because she helps even those who had done her harm. She don't hold grudges. 

 

Mary noticed that she wasn't as good as Sybil. Now if she is serious, it's of course Edith whom she should treat better. Although sneaking each other and reacting automatically at it has been a habit, it can also be changed.

[SusanSunflower]

Mary knows that her good deed will be revealed eventually ... at least when Anna gives birth to a bouncing baby ... and keeping it secret, necessitated by Mr. Bates, is so very very modest. There's no harm in her calculations, doing good deeds to feel good about herself after being "shown-up" by Sybil's goodness, or just reminded of Sybil's goodness. It's one of her Scarlett O"Hara qualities. Edith, Isobel, Rosamund and Gwen all have "vocations" ... as do Cora and Violet with the hospital ... She was a little bit odd-man-out at the lunch table... where managing the estate was old news, and Tom was now back to help. 

I was glad to hear word of the new housing that Tom and Matthew had planned (however long ago), not being completed and/or being too far away for the Carsons to occupy during the work-week... or something. 

 

eta: Mary reminds me of that 1980's phrase wrt people to whom everyone else is merely an extra in their movie ... 

Edited January 25, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[P3pp3rb1rd]

Daisy has been the pet of Mrs. Patmore, and William's father, and William, and other servants, for so long that she is rotten spoiled now. Mrs. Patmore treats her like a favorite child, Daisy loved the attention she got for embarrassing that peer at the auction, as well as the attention she gets from the servants when she mutters her socialist threats. Daisy is an immature attention hog. She's had a lot of good luck too--the widow's pension and William's father's favor fell on her with no effort on her part, as did Mrs. Patmore's favoritism. The Bunting woman offered the nearly free lessons to Daisy. Moseley offered his family's encyclopedia volumes as references.

 

Gaggin'

[albaniantv]

I almost feel sorry for Fellowes having to write all these pissy little phony battles as the show winds down... for the last time.

 

To the hustings once more Dowager Duchess taking on all who would best her;

 

While we await Baby Bates, we can watch all the grandchildren helping at the pig farm, Marigold finding her mummy, Cora saving the Earl from a heart attack, Thomas finding anything at all and Mary learning to drive a stick?

 

Thank G there's no time for any more weddings and with a little bit of luck, no funerals.

[Brookside]

What happened to the Bed and Breakfast Carson and Hughes were going to run? We know Carson bought the building. Just another conveniently forgotten plotline?

And anyone else notice how crunchy whatever Daisy was mashing was? Certainly not boiled potatoes - maybe potato crisps . . .

[renatae]

Can't believe that, once again, Carson and others rode roughshod over Mrs. Carson's feelings by deciding she would not be known as Mrs. Carson at the house. Phooey!

Which reminds me. During the planning of the wedding, both Mrs. Patmore and especially the new Mrs. Carson made statements that made it sound as though neither had been married. I'm wondering if there was some custom of calling house staff Mrs. regardless of marriage?

[Llywela]

Which reminds me. During the planning of the wedding, both Mrs. Patmore and especially the new Mrs. Carson made statements that made it sound as though neither had been married. I'm wondering if there was some custom of calling house staff Mrs. regardless of marriage?

Yes. All housekeepers and head cooks were known as 'Mrs' regardless of marital status - it was a title that denoted rank and respect.

[Andorra]

It was so nice to have Tom back in the show. Mary and Tom is the best relationship since season 3. Love them together!

 

Edith was her usual friendly self at the breakfast table. She's so jealous of how close Mary is with Tom and would love to see them quarreling, but they don't. Did the Mary haters notice? She was perfectly lovely to Tom. She has no problem whatsoever with sharing her job with him if he wishes to doso. She also was perfectly lovely to Anna. I loved it how she took charge and immediately got hold of the situation. And Tom was the only one she told the truth about Anna's situation. Again showing us how good their relationship is. 

 

I teared up through the lunch with Gwen when they talked about Sybil. Tom's face!

 

Talbot has lost the spark he had in the CS. I thought the dinner was awkward. He seemed uninterested in both what she does and her son and she had her usual "suitor-snark" flirting thing going, which I find annoying. 

[ShadowFacts]

I liked Mary in the entire episode -- is the world still spinning on its axis?  I'm not a Mary-hater but definitely not a big fan.  In this episode it was like she grew up.  Now may Edith follow.  If Mary can, she can.

 

I didn't feel much with Carson's removing his name from the door.  I can't remember him even being in his nice bedroom until the wedding episodes, we usually see him sitting in his little office.  And he's not leaving his job, so I thought the scene with swelling music was overdone.

 

If Tom's new purpose is going to be mechanical support to the car racers, well, no, I'm not feeling that either. 

 

Now that Mr. Mason has seen his paradise, who else will see their dreams come true?  It must be time for some tragedy, with either Violet going to Robert's funeral like Rosamunde predicted, or Thomas hanging himself, or Spratt's nephew committing mayhem.  It can't be all sweetness and light.

[Marianne]

That was a lovely episode. I loved seeing Gwen again and what became of her.  She and her precious type writer was one of my favorite early story lines.  Oh Thomas, I so dislike when he is petty like that but I just can't manage to dislike him all and all.  I had to roll my eyes when Robert told Thomas how kind Carson is. Yeah, right, only if you look at him with rose colored glasses.    

 I totally agree that "kind" is not an adjective I would ever use about Carson.  When Robert said it, I couldn't sputtering out loud at my TV:  "No, he isn't!  He isn't!"

 

The scene with Gwen was annoying for me because I felt that she was being deceptive by not immediately identifying herself to the family.  So they never looked at her long enough to remember her face.  But now she was being essentially dishonest by agreeing to be a guest in their home without revealing her identity.  And it seems to me that given Gwen's personality, history, personal development and especially her affection for Sybil and Sybil's crucial role in Gwen's life, that Gwen should have voluntarily revealed who she was and should have immediately told the family the whole story. She wasn't ashamed of having spent time in service, and her very purpose for being there was to validate the idea of women of her class being able to climb up the societal ladder, as she had done with Sybil's help.  I  disliked that she intended to keep it a secret and that apparently Anna, the odious Bates, and the other servants--save Thomas--would go along with it.  And even former downstairs-er, now upstairs-er, Tom Branson was going to stay mum.  This mystified me.

I agree that Thomas was being a weasel again, but I did not find it credible that even  he would interject himself into the luncheon table conversation, while he was serving, by addressing a personal comment to Gwen (or any guest). He would have found some other way to bring the information to the family's notice before all sat down to lunch.    But if Thomas hadn't forced it, would Gwen have bothered to let the family know who she was and how generous and life-changing Sybil's friendship had been?

[BetyBee]

Mary vs. Edith discussions are starting early after this episode, which I guess means there isn't much to discuss about the episode.  I would venture to guess that Fellowes used this one as a set-up for the grand finale.  Clearly Daisy & Andy are suddenly a one true pairing, but what of Moesley and Baxter?  Is there really time for yet another crime drama before they discover true love?  I love Moelsey (which I've spelled 2 ways, not sure if either is correct!) and he clearly loves Baxter, yet no progress was made there.    I can't tell if Talbot will be Mary's future spouse.  As has been mentioned above, they have nothing in common besides haughtiness, but they do make a beautiful couple.  If he's 40th in line, would she really go for him?  Perhaps, as she no longer needs lineage, thanks to George.  I do believe Fellowes put the kibosh on any Mary/Tom pairings, with her brother comment and with bringing up Sybil.  That was quite a lovely scene!

 

No progress on Bertie/Edith this episode, but perhaps Tom will fall in love with the prospective female editor.  Where will Edith find her?.  Fellowes must have some convoluted way to bring Bertie to Downton, but is there time for anyone to have a romance and a marriage?  I hope so, because the costumes and the settings have been stunning this season.  I gasped at the beauty of the table and at Cora's and Mary's clothes.  I would love to see a grand wedding!

 

I will never understand why Anna must looks so dowdy with that awful wig.  Perhaps so she will seem all the more beautiful, with her hair down as she holds her newly birthed son/daughter in the finale?  I really thought that Mary wanted to hug Anna, when it seemed she was miscarrying, but I guess that wouldn't be proper.  I'm glad for Anna that Mary helped to save her baby. I feel nothing for Bates these days.  I don't think they are the wondrous match they were supposed to be.  

Edited January 25, 2016 by BetyBee

[mwell345]

 

I wanted to vomit when Violet was making her ultra right wing rupert murdoch anti-government rant, since I guess this is really about how much Fellowes hates the NHS and wishes it was never formed so people could live in poverty and disease.  These laboriously long, tedious plots threads are dreadful.  This last season is mostly filler thus far, I would have taken a two special episode to end out the series as opposed to this drivel.

 

I'm starting to agree and I was really looking forward to this season.

 

Other than the return of Gwen, it was pretty dull all around.  More Boring Bates drama, more hospital talk which just needs to end, and more of this person they call Daisy who I don't even recognize anymore.

 

And they're getting a little heavy handed with his Lordship's "indigestion".  I think we get it by now.

 

(In the interest of full disclosure, though, I did flip the channel over to the Panther's game a couple of times so I might have missed some things.  But that's ok.  #keeppounding)