S04.E18: Strangers: Part Two

[SuzieQ]

47 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think Rebecca's birthdate was on her cognitive test and I think it was March 1950, but I haven't double checked.  That would make her 70 now and if we're seeing her 12 years hence she would be 82.  She looks like a pretty youthful 70, so how they showed her at 82 seems to track for me.

Thanks!! I was thinking she was more like 65 now.  But even if she was 82, if she looks that good now, I still thik she looks way older than 82.  But my Mom had dementia and when she stopped caring about her appearance, we knew there was a problem because she never had a hair out of place before.  So I guess it could be somewhat accurate.

Did you think Kevin and Randall looked more than 12 years past the present?  I did, especially with Kevin being an actor.  But I guess this isn't an exact science and overall they do a good job aging them.

Edited March 27, 2020 by SuzieQ

[CarpeFelis]

45 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think Rebecca's birthdate was on her cognitive test and I think it was March 1950, but I haven't double checked.  That would make her 70 now and if we're seeing her 12 years hence she would be 82.  She looks like a pretty youthful 70, so how they showed her at 82 seems to track for me.

I don’t know... my mother lived to 98 and didn’t look nearly as old as Rebecca did at supposedly 82. Maybe there’s some other complication in addition to the Alzheimer’s that makes her physically deteriorate more quickly? Like she’s wasting away from some form of cancer or something? Either that or the show doesn’t know what 82 is supposed to look like.

[Norma Desmond]

Hated that Madison is the baby mama. Ruined the whole thing for me.

[txhorns79]

9 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

I don’t know... my mother lived to 98 and didn’t look nearly as old as Rebecca did at supposedly 82. Maybe there’s some other complication in addition to the Alzheimer’s that makes her physically deteriorate more quickly? Like she’s wasting away from some form of cancer or something? Either that or the show doesn’t know what 82 is supposed to look like.

Alzheimer's/dementia patients often stop being able to eat, and a PEG tube rarely is going to give you the same nutrition you received from oral intake of food.  They can lose a lot of weight and often can end up looking older than they normally would.  Though I'd also say different people age differently.  My grandmother smoked and drank heavily until the end.  She was 83, but looked a good deal older.  Meanwhile, my mother, who avoided those vices, is 71, but looks 60.     

[lucindabelle]

I’m 55. I don’t think meow silver Fox Kevin looks much Older than 50. Really people age a lot between 40 and 50, and it’s worse for women thanks to menopause.

[BC4ME]

1 minute ago, txhorns79 said:

Alzheimer's/dementia patients often stop being able to eat, and a PEG tube rarely is going to give you the same nutrition you received from oral intake of food.  They can lose a lot of weight and often can end up looking older than they normally would.

My mom is in end stage Alzheimer's right now and she has aged significantly more than she might have due to the physical manifestations of the disease. So Rebecca could be about right the way they aged her. 

Also, there's a lot of talk of what Rebecca wants but that is what she wants right now (or what is current in the storyline). I'm from a medical background and have spent quite a bit of time around cancer patients. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard people say, If I had cancer like that I wouldn't do chemo or radiation. I'd just live out my life. Well, sometimes that is true. However, in my experience, when actually faced with the diagnosis and when push comes to shove, most do chose treatment, despite it sometimes being clear that it won't cure them and they will likely have a rough go with the treatment. When faced with sure death, people want to try, no matter what the cost. It's a whole lot different than standing on the outside making those observations. My point being despite what we know from the flash forwards about how Rebecca deteriorates, as time goes on in the current storyline she may become desperate. Maybe Randall does know more what's best for her than he's being given credit for. In addition, of the three of them, if I had to trust my future well being to one of them, I'd sure as hell choose Randall. Because he's always shown up. 

[txhorns79]

5 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

In addition, of the three of them, if I had to trust my future well being to one of them, I'd sure as hell choose Randall. Because he's always shown up. 

I wouldn't.  He's made clear that he won't respect the patient's express wishes, and I could never trust someone like that with my care. 

[RachelKM]

On 3/26/2020 at 6:54 PM, BC4ME said:

I can't tell you the number of times I've heard people say, If I had cancer like that I wouldn't do chemo or radiation. I'd just live out my life. Well, sometimes that is true. However, in my experience, when actually faced with the diagnosis and when push comes to shove, most do chose treatment, despite it sometimes being clear that it won't cure them and they will likely have a rough go with the treatment. When faced with sure death, people want to try, no matter what the cost. It's a whole lot different than standing on the outside making those observations.

I'm sure that is true.  But, whether she changes her mind later or not, it's her decision as long as she has capacity to make it.  And she does have the diagnosis.  It's not some theoretical question for her.  She has the diagnosis and has been told what to expect from it and made and informed decision.

If she changes her mind in the future, that is also her right.  And if there are no available trials at that point, she will have to deal with that consequence. But again, the consequence is also hers. 

On 3/26/2020 at 6:44 PM, lucindabelle said:

I’m 55. I don’t think meow silver Fox Kevin looks much Older than 50. Really people age a lot between 40 and 50, and it’s worse for women thanks to menopause.

This is true.  My ex was 42 when we split 10 years ago.  He  was and is very attractive.  I still see him occasionally because we are friendly and I'm close with his mom. He has aged more in the last 10 years than he did in the 15 preceding. I would love to credit it to the absence of me and my magnificence. But I have a feeling it's just biology.  He is very healthy and active, more so than in his 30s.

I'm a bit worried for my 42 year old ass....

Edited March 29, 2020 by RachelKM

[The Ringo Kidd]

11 minutes ago, BC4ME said:In addition, of the three of them, if I had to trust my future well being to one of them, I'd sure as hell choose Randall. Because he's always shown up. 

I wouldn’t trust Randall because it would be all about him and not about me.

Out of them all I would choose Beth.

[SunnyBeBe]

I hope that Rebecca gets all of that straight in her Healthcare POA, Durable POA and Advanced Medical Directive, while she still has the ability. 

[MoonMountain]

SKB’s Instagram says the year is 2045 when Rebecca is on her presumed deathbed. If the big 3 were born in 1980, that would make them 65 in this scene. And if Rebecca was born in 1950, she would be 95. Which makes the aging seem a bit more appropriate. 
 

Also that would make Jack Jr (Damon) around 25-26, and it’s possible his baby is born right around when Rebecca dies, if not that same day. Theoretically I would imagine Jack Jr could be pretty close to Rebecca. 
 

Edited to add: Kevin’s babies with Madison would also be in their early-mid 20s at this point. So these kids are not the same ones Madison is currently pregnant with. Perhaps he is adopting or fostering in the future? Or has more kids with Madison or someone else? Or maybe his now 20-something daughter was a very young teen mom to twins and he is a grandpa at 65??

Edited March 27, 2020 by MoonMountain

[mommalib]

4 hours ago, BC4ME said:

 

 

I'm white too and I have to agree with both of you. I feel like Randall is not being cut the slack he deserves. He has plenty of reasons to be the way he is. Plus they really are trying to make him unlikeable IMO. Or at least they are pushing the image a black man has to maintain to be as accepted as a white guy even with lesser qualities. I'm still hanging in there with him but here's the thing (below), and something that is probably going to piss off some people. (Full disclosure, I haven't finished this thread but I knew I'd lose these posts if I waited to finish and I'm a really slow reader and I really did want to comment on this.) I've been thinking this for a long time but haven't mentioned it. Here goes:

This almost seems like some sort of social experiment. Here we have three arguably equally flawed individuals. It seems to me that, so much like life, the tall, good looking white guy gets cut more slack than he deserves while the black guy and the overweight woman get piled on almost like people are waiting for an excuse.

Okay, have at me. Sorry if this has already been brought up.  

But even with Kate it's different because she's never been demonized the way I feel Randall has been the past two seasons. Think back to  season 3 and his marriage issues with Beth, they not only made it seem like he was an asshole to her in the present day but in flashbacks throughout there relationship they made it seem like Beth was long suffering saint that had to "put up" with Randall and all his "issues"

[A.Ham]

Lord, it is tough to keep up with this thread.

I think we all bring our life experiences into this. I find that I was very triggered by Randall's manipulation of Rebecca on many fronts. For one, I strongly believe in the right to self-determination, particularly around personal medical decisions. There was no good reason for Randall to callously force his ailing mother's hands in a rather cruel way. Emphasis on ailing mother. All so that he could feel better about having done what he felt was needed. SMH. I get that he has crippling anxiety, but there are better ways to handle that by working on himself, rather than what he chose to do. Having a mental illness does not give him a pass in my book--this was extreme for me. How can he be so sure this study would even work? The whole purpose of it is to test whether or not a treatment would work, it's not a given. So he is ready to have his mother uprooted to an unfamiliar place, minimizing her support system, for selfish reasons. Yes, Miguel is coming along. How nice. Living with a dementia patient is not a one person job (well, maybe now that she is newly diagnosed it may be). But the point is Miguel won't have the access to trusted caregivers at the drop of a hat--they would have to take a plane from any direction to get to them. What Rebecca can benefit from is a familiar and trusted environment, to minimize the confusion the disease is already causing. I see it when my mom has a change in her structure--she decompensates whenever there are changes to her environment, or even going to spend a couple of days at my brother's house. And that's her son, that she loves dearly. Randall may be thinking that he has his mother's best interest at hand, but he did all of that, for a research study. Not proven treatment, not a cure (there is none), but a 50/50 chance at maintaining good functioning for a little longer. She is going to progress in her illness and eventually die, regardless. He has to make peace with that. The cruelty of how he treated his own mother is why I can't be on team Randall. Doesn't mean I don't want him on the show or think his character needs to be written off. The fact that we are so fervently discussing every minute detail of this goes to show the great job he is doing, along with the rest of the cast.

As to the fight, they were both total jerks to one another. I see that as separate thing that was less about Rebecca and more about their relationship. I don't think there are any winners there. You don't hurt a loved one like that and push the most painful buttons just because you disagree.  

Whew! For it being just a TV show, this sure brought up a lot for me.

[Scarlett45]

38 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

It would have been mature if he had worn a condom.  He isn't some idiot out of control hormone ridden18 year old that doesn't know any better. 

Of course. I mentioned that in another post. But Madison also made the choice not to use contraception. Kevin didn’t assault or coerce her. If Madison said these babies were her great love story, not Kevin, I don’t think anyone would’ve thought anything of it as it’s expected that she love the babies she’s choosing to have. Maternal love is expected to be more encompassing. 
 

She and Kevin barely know each other. I don’t expect either one of them to care about each other at this point outside of basic human decency. Madison really doesn’t give two licks about Kevin and wasn’t even going to tell him.

 

Now that they are co parents together I think that care will grow, but yeah they are each someone that shared a gamete with the other and now Madison (the one with the uterus) who’s choosing to continue the pregnancy. 

[MissLucas]

So far we have no idea what went 'wrong' during their hook-up. Madison told her Obgyn that due to her aneroxia she had not expected to be able to conceive. It's possible that therefore she wasn't taking contraception too seriously. Although given Kevin's sexual history (that she must be aware of) she should still have been on her guard even if he did not care. It's also possible that they did use condoms and 'life found a way' - accidents happen.

[ams1001]

Was it actually stated that they didn't use condoms (if so, I missed it)? 'Accidental pregnancy' does not automatically mean 'didn't use birth control of any kind.' Every time there's an unplanned pregnancy people jump to "what an irresponsible idiot who can't even be bothered to use a condom!" Birth control can fail, sometimes through no particular fault of the user. This knee-jerk reaction gets old.

 

[luna1122]

Older Kevin looks 50ish to me, and still incredibly handsome, tho the beard makes his face  oddly just look...larger, more squared off or something .I'd think he might, being a famous movie star guy, not have given into the gray and the beard, fought aging harder, but look at George Clooney. Handsome as hell , but looks every bit his age.  But still yum.  They've aged Randall a little too much tho.

Kevin IS my fave, and only partly cuz he's so pretty, but both Kevin and Randall were horrible in that argument. No sides here. They were both striking out like kids do, saying the worst, ugliest things imaginable, and both were wrong as wrong can be. But it looks like they'd made up in the future.

I wasn't thrilled that Madison is the baby mama, but whatever. Kevin wanted kids, he's getting kids. Ta da. I do hope they don't get married. I still kind of want him with Sophie. I loved her laughing at Kevin's giant nipply billboard.

I'm afraid that Nicky is married to Rebecca in the future for some reason, which squicks me out. I hope that's not the case.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

45 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

So far we have no idea what went 'wrong' during their hook-up. Madison told her Obgyn that due to her aneroxia she had not expected to be able to conceive. It's possible that therefore she wasn't taking contraception too seriously. Although given Kevin's sexual history (that she must be aware of) she should still have been on her guard even if he did not care. It's also possible that they did use condoms and 'life found a way' - accidents happen.

 

44 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Was it actually stated that they didn't use condoms (if so, I missed it)? 'Accidental pregnancy' does not automatically mean 'didn't use birth control of any kind.' Every time there's an unplanned pregnancy people jump to "what an irresponsible idiot who can't even be bothered to use a condom!" Birth control can fail, sometimes through no particular fault of the user. This knee-jerk reaction gets old.

 

Condoms are only effective when they are used properly.  So many people use condoms and still get pregnant because of that.  Madison is not going to run out the next morning to get Plan B if they used condoms because of her medical history.  

[blondiec0332]

8 hours ago, mommalib said:

But even with Kate it's different because she's never been demonized the way I feel Randall has been the past two seasons. Think back to  season 3 and his marriage issues with Beth, they not only made it seem like he was an asshole to her in the present day but in flashbacks throughout there relationship they made it seem like Beth was long suffering saint that had to "put up" with Randall and all his "issues"

I think that was purposefully done to bring Randall to this point.  There were signs along the way that he has his flaws and while at the time we might have thought they weren't all that serious, more annoying than anything, we now see when flaws are left unchecked (especially when caused by an emotional/psychological issue) they can grown into something truly awful.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

11 hours ago, mommalib said:

But even with Kate it's different because she's never been demonized the way I feel Randall has been the past two seasons.

Oh, I think almost all of the women on this show have been judged way more harshly than the men. Kate for being fat, Rebecca for not being content as only a housewife, Cassidy for not wearing enough make-up, having a grim facial expression and having a job. Seriously, can you imagine someone even thinking to criticize a male veteran for defending our country and saying that he should have instead stayed home to take care of his kid?

I think there are very real and valid criticisms of Kate. She is self-centered in my opinion. She is also a food addict but rather than speaking about that, she's criticized for her looks. It's like the fact that she isn't attractive enough is more important than the fact that she's battling an addiction.

There are real and valid criticisms of Rebecca. The unequal way she treated her children and keeping Randall away from William, for example. But criticizing her for wanting to be more than a housewife? No one would judge a man for wanting to be more than a husband and father and having other goals.

And of course, nothing could be more apparent on how woman are judged so harshly on their looks if you think back to how Cassidy was discussed. The whole make-up issue and how old she looked and how her expression wasn't pleasant enough. She's dealing with addiction and PTSD and was recently separated from her husband but she didn't look happy! How dare she!

I'm not interested in pitting racism against sexism but I personally feel that both clearly exist and neither should be dismissed.

 

[SuzieQ]

12 hours ago, MoonMountain said:

SKB’s Instagram says the year is 2045 when Rebecca is on her presumed deathbed. If the big 3 were born in 1980, that would make them 65 in this scene. And if Rebecca was born in 1950, she would be 95. Which makes the aging seem a bit more appropriate. 
 

Also that would make Jack Jr (Damon) around 25-26, and it’s possible his baby is born right around when Rebecca dies, if not that same day. Theoretically I would imagine Jack Jr could be pretty close to Rebecca. 
 

Edited to add: Kevin’s babies with Madison would also be in their early-mid 20s at this point. So these kids are not the same ones Madison is currently pregnant with. Perhaps he is adopting or fostering in the future? Or has more kids with Madison or someone else? Or maybe his now 20-something daughter was a very young teen mom to twins and he is a grandpa at 65??

Thank You Thank Tou Thank You!!

 

That makes so much more sense to me!!  Then it would absolutely be age appropriate.  It also tells me that Kevin goes on to have more than one set of twins!

[luna1122]

Kevin having more than one set of twins is a kind of maddening idea. like one the writers would have cooked up just to keep us guessing and on our toes and omgoshsoshocked!

I hope that's not the case.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Kevin having more than one set of twins is a kind of maddening idea. like one the writers would have cooked up just to keep us guessing and on our toes and omgoshsoshocked!

I hope that's not the case.

 

I don't think that is the case.  Last year, Dan Fogelman said in an interview that the Rebecca's deathbed scenes were 12 years in the future.  That would be 2031.  This episode was intentionally edited to show Kevin and Madison's son and daughter cut into Madison telling Kevin it's twins.  I can't help but believe based on what was shown is those kids in the flashforward are the ones currently cooking in Madison.  

[mommalib]

4 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Oh, I think almost all of the women on this show have been judged way more harshly than the men. Kate for being fat, Rebecca for not being content as only a housewife, Cassidy for not wearing enough make-up, having a grim facial expression and having a job. Seriously, can you imagine someone even thinking to criticize a male veteran for defending our country and saying that he should have instead stayed home to take care of his kid?

I think there are very real and valid criticisms of Kate. She is self-centered in my opinion. She is also a food addict but rather than speaking about that, she's criticized for her looks. It's like the fact that she isn't attractive enough is more important than the fact that she's battling an addiction.

There are real and valid criticisms of Rebecca. The unequal way she treated her children and keeping Randall away from William, for example. But criticizing her for wanting to be more than a housewife? No one would judge a man for wanting to be more than a husband and father and having other goals.

And of course, nothing could be more apparent on how woman are judged so harshly on their looks if you think back to how Cassidy was discussed. The whole make-up issue and how old she looked and how her expression wasn't pleasant enough. She's dealing with addiction and PTSD and was recently separated from her husband but she didn't look happy! How dare she!

I'm not interested in pitting racism against sexism but I personally feel that both clearly exist and neither should be dismissed.

 

You can't put racism against sexism and as a black person i'm saying that would be disrespectful. There is no white feminist walking this earth that can compare her experience to any black man, woman, or child. It's not the same thing, a white woman may not get the sympathy or the benefit of the doubt over a white man but she damn sure would over a black man.

[crowsworks]

21 hours ago, Norma Desmond said:

Hated that Madison is the baby mama. Ruined the whole thing for me.

 

5 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Kevin having more than one set of twins is a kind of maddening idea. like one the writers would have cooked up just to keep us guessing and on our toes and omgoshsoshocked!

I hope that's not the case.

 

I think the anvils falling with Madison's health issues (bulimia can mess with your heart) and twins would be harder. Want to bet Kev falls for her over the months and has a tragic ending. You know how they love to make us cry. Enter one of the other ladies to help out... 

5 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't think that is the case.  Last year, Dan Fogelman said in an interview that the Rebecca's deathbed scenes were 12 years in the future.  That would be 2031.  This episode was intentionally edited to show Kevin and Madison's son and daughter cut into Madison telling Kevin it's twins.  I can't help but believe based on what was shown is those kids in the flashforward are the ones currently cooking in Madison.  

OR maybe the pretty dark haired adopted daughter is the surviving twin? Kev could crash and burn for a while if Madison dies and... Nah

Edited March 27, 2020 by crowsworks
woopsy

[MissLucas]

Urgh, if Madison dies and one of the other leading ladies steps in we're in HIMYM territory. The fact that both Sophie and Cassidy were included in this episode is of course ominous.

[tinderbox]

On 3/25/2020 at 12:13 AM, Mrs Shibbles said:

 

 

Nevermind 

[tinderbox]

This may sound crazy but I have a thought running through my mind about Madison’s doctor.  Could Kyle have been stolen from the hospital at birth and never actually died.  Could the doctor BE Kyle?  He resembles Kevin and looks approximately the same age as Kate and Kevin.  Thoughts?

Edited March 28, 2020 by tinderbox

[SuzieQ]

8 minutes ago, tinderbox said:

This may sound crazy but I have a thought running through my mind about Madison’s doctor.  Could Kyle have been stolen from the hospital at birth and never actually died.  Could the doctor BE Kyle?  He resembles Kevin and is approximately the same age as Kate and Kevin.  Thoughts?

That would be awful and would really piss me off, but they would absolutely do that!!  There has to be a reason he was featured so prominently with his daughter.

[SueB]

The fight: Thermonuclear war.  Both lose.  Both fired to deeply hurt the other in a meaningful way.  I want them to come back from this, I don’t know how.  And this fight was coming since childhood. 
 

Beth: Wins the most entertaining award.  Her reactions were priceless. 
 

BabyMama: I’m GLAD Madison is pregnant.  This is her miracle birth.  I’m glad Kevin is all-in.  Loved her telling a barista who wasn’t ‘invested’. 
 

Horse Girl: Just another TIU ‘moment of clarity from random stranger.’  
 

Miguel: He does whatever Rebecca wants.  He made that choice a long time ago and it’s not going to change. 
 

I loved Sophie’s reaction to the billboard. 

 

Nicky remains a hoot.  I’m glad he & Cassidy are still buddies.  
 

I’m glad Toby & Kate adopt another child.  
 

Finally, I think the makeup is off for the aging in the future.  I think they’ve really created a continuity issue with the various children’s ages too.  When they give us ‘the answer’ on the date, I’ll shrug and move on.  
 

[MissLucas]

8 hours ago, tinderbox said:

This may sound crazy but I have a thought running through my mind about Madison’s doctor.  Could Kyle have been stolen from the hospital at birth and never actually died.  Could the doctor BE Kyle?  He resembles Kevin and looks approximately the same age as Kate and Kevin.  Thoughts?

That's a rather extreme plot even for this show - and it would require a complete character assassination of Dr. Katowski. He told Jack that the third baby was stillborn with the umbilical chord around the neck. If Kyle lives either the good doctor and the nurses present would have been complicit in a baby-snatching plot or Dr. K. was a hack who did not recognize that the baby could be saved and it was done by one of the nurses once he had left. I can't imagine the show going there.

[tinderbox]

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

That's a rather extreme plot even for this show - and it would require a complete character assassination of Dr. Katowski. He told Jack that the third baby was stillborn with the umbilical chord around the neck. If Kyle lives either the good doctor and the nurses present would have been complicit in a baby-snatching plot or Dr. K. was a hack who did not recognize that the baby could be saved and it was done by one of the nurses once he had left. I can't imagine the show going there.

I hear what you’re saying, and agree that the show probably won’t go there, but situations of stolen newborns do/did exist.  Again, I was just throwing out my idea as a possibility because it went through my mind the minute I saw the doctor character when he was trying to calm the horse.  He resembles Kevin.

[nexxie]

I hope Madison and Kevin turn out to be a great love story - you never know how you’ll meet your soulmate.

[PRgal]

8 hours ago, tinderbox said:

I hear what you’re saying, and agree that the show probably won’t go there, but situations of stolen newborns do/did exist.  Again, I was just throwing out my idea as a possibility because it went through my mind the minute I saw the doctor character when he was trying to calm the horse.  He resembles Kevin.

He also looks at least 5 years older than the Big 3.  The actor himself is close to 50 so I imagine the doctor is too.  

[Alice Mudgarden]

Personally, I'd like Kevin to meet someone entirely new and have that be his great love story. One that doesn't play out in the grand "Jack and Rebecca Pearson Love Story For The Ages" way he has romanticized in his head. Someone he didn't see coming, without ties to anyone but him; who snuck up on him after building just a regular old friendship.

Considering what a romantic he is, I think the most romantic thing would be for him to find his love when he wasn't looking for it. Then he'd know it was for real.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Alice Mudgarden

[MBayGal]

On 3/26/2020 at 9:22 PM, MoonMountain said:

SKB’s Instagram says the year is 2045 when Rebecca is on her presumed deathbed. If the big 3 were born in 1980, that would make them 65 in this scene. And if Rebecca was born in 1950, she would be 95. Which makes the aging seem a bit more appropriate. 

But does anyone live 25 years with dementia? My mother had Alzheimer’s, one friend’s husband had frontal lobe dementia, and another had Lewy Body dementia.  None lived even 10 years after diagnosis, nor have I heard of any others. I'm not buying Rebecca living until 2045.  

[crowsworks]

2 hours ago, MBayGal said:

But does anyone live 25 years with dementia? My mother had Alzheimer’s, one friend’s husband had frontal lobe dementia, and another had Lewy Body dementia.  None lived even 10 years after diagnosis, nor have I heard of any others. I'm not buying Rebecca living until 2045.  

My Aunt Mid outlived her kids and much of her family -  over 20 yrs

[debraran]

Re Kyle, I never thought Jack would leave his son at the hospital and I always thought they'd be a short scene with him or them saying goodbye. That is TIU but they didn't. He was vehicle to get Randall but I can see some fans going crazy thinking he reemerges because that part wasn't very fulfilling.

I don't use Twitter or Instagram, etc. but I've seen that Fogleman got his share of rants from fans who didn't want his wife (bit harsh lol) Other writers had to tell them they persuaded him to do it. Whether he's lying or not, he did say Kevin's path is long until the end and who knows what will happen? (giving Sophie people hope)

I know Dr K will help Sophie with her pregnancy and body image and although a nice person, didn't seem like having twins would be something she'd fall into gracefully and I hope she is getting more help besides Kevin. Knowing and reading about people dealing with eating disorders, pregnancy makes it very difficult, sometimes physically (they are prone to more issues) and mentally. With twins, the nutrition for them all will be paramount and dealing with nausea etc. One woman I read about liked the not eating but then had to keep remembering the babies needed it. Watching her stomach expand was beautiful and frightening. So much they can ignore or explore.

[nilyank]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

I know Dr K will help Sophie with her pregnancy and body image and although a nice person, didn't seem like having twins would be something she'd fall into gracefully and I hope she is getting more help besides Kevin. Knowing and reading about people dealing with eating disorders, pregnancy makes it very difficult, sometimes physically (they are prone to more issues) and mentally. With twins, the nutrition for them all will be paramount and dealing with nausea etc. One woman I read about liked the not eating but then had to keep remembering the babies needed it. Watching her stomach expand was beautiful and frightening. So much they can ignore or explore.

Plus, Kate will be able to support Madison who should empathize both with Madison's issues and having a child(ren) that would be her only shot of having one.

[MBayGal]

13 hours ago, crowsworks said:

My Aunt Mid outlived her kids and much of her family -  over 20 yrs

With dementia??

[Aloeonatable]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

I know Dr K will help Sophie with her pregnancy and body image and although a nice person, didn't seem like having twins would be something she'd fall into gracefully and I hope she is getting more help besides Kevin.

Do you mean the Horse Doctor OB/GYN will help Madison with her pregnancy? Dr. K was 90 or so when Jack died and the Big 3 were teens. There is no way he is still alive when they are 40.

[debraran]

58 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

Do you mean the Horse Doctor OB/GYN will help Madison with her pregnancy? Dr. K was 90 or so when Jack died and the Big 3 were teens. There is no way he is still alive when they are 40.

Yes, and that was somewhat confirmed by producer. Would make sense since he is her OB. Once the excitement wears off, there are other things to think about.  I know it's TV but what is her job or insurance? Maybe marriage will be for that too. I can't remember what she did.

[Diana Berry]

Just watched the Show.

So if I’m understanding some of the comments, some think that horse doctor is  Kyle? So Dr. K took Rebecca‘s baby and raised it as his own after him and his wife lost their baby? That would be crazy but interesting.  So instead of sweet Dr. K we have sinister Dr. K? Horse doctor is the same Age range is the big three.

 I think the problem with Kevin’s aging is the beard. If he was clean-shaven and they just put some gray in his hair and gave him some wrinkles it would look much better. Also the confusion of are they 50 or are they 60?  I’ll be the first to admit once you hit the mid 50s yeah you start aging. But if this is just a 10 year age range Kevin‘s look is way off. Having him wear Mr. Rogers type sweaters when 10 years ago he was in an ad campaign for a cologne with his shirt open seems way off. It would make more sense if he was hitting  late 50s early 60s. I wish they would clarify this whole timeline. 

I’d like for Kevin to fall in love with Madison.

Kevin and Randall both said some pretty ugly things to each other. I hope they show some kind of understanding between the two of them in the future.

 

 

[MsJamieDornan]

Quote

On average, people with Alzheimer's disease live between three and 11 years after diagnosis, but some survive 20 years or more. The degree of impairment at diagnosis can affect life expectancy.

I just looked that up.

[Tosia]

On 3/24/2020 at 9:56 PM, Domenicholas said:

There's so much to impact in this episode.

With regards to the Kevin/Randall fight, although we may subjectively pick which one was the worse in the argument, objectively I believe that the show was showing that they were both in the wrong and that, unfortunately, people say cruel things to the people they love out of anger and insecurity. Kevin is bitter because Randall has the things Kevin craves: their parents' attention and trust, a loving wife, and beautiful children. Randall is bitter because he feels unappreciated for being the dutiful son and watching after the family after Jack's death while Kevin is universally loved after he leaves it to do his own thing a la the prodigal son. They both say things for the sake of maximum damage, which is similar to the Jack/Rebecca fight in Season 1 about her singing, and the Randall/Beth fight about her dance studio/his political career last season. Sadly, fights can get as ugly as that one did in real life.

On slightly happier notes, as soon as Toby talked about having more kids, I knew that Hailey from the art museum was going to be Baby Jack's sister. I expected the baby to be named Rebecca too, but maybe Kevin named his own daughter Rebecca and they didn't want to overlap.

Speaking of Kevin's children, Madison being their mother wasn't a surprise. I liked how she was like "I know this isn't ideal, but these are my miracle babies and I'm having them. Whether you want to be involved is up to you." Sadly, it seems that Randall's words have convinced Kevin to make a deeper commitment to Madison than great father to the twins. I'm on the "Sophie is endgame" train, but what happens to Madison? Do they just break up? Does she die in childbirth? We don't even know if Kevin is married in the "Her" timeline.

I did not catch that Nicky was married in the future. I hope it's not Rebecca; I can't bear to see another husband play second fiddle to the memory of Jack. It could be Cassidy because I don't think that she showed up at his trailer for nothing. She may just be a friend of the family but, as Madison shows, friends either become family or disappear. My crack theory is that Cassidy's son marries Annie in the future.

As for why they focused on the doctor's horse-riding daughter, I came up with a couple of theories:

1. When Madison and Kevin break up, Madison marries her OB/GYN.

2. The daughter Sadie becomes Kevin's wife/girlfriend in the future when she's an adult.

3. Sadie becomes Tess's wife/girlfriend in the future.

4. Sadie becomes a teenage mother and gives birth to Lucy, Baby Jack's wife.

A lot of questions for the next season. We still have not seen Miguel, Annie, Deja, Kate, Back Jack, and now Hailey in the "Her" timeline, and only the latter two in the furthest timeline. Hopefully they will flesh their futures more.

Finally, between Jennifer Morrison, Adelaide Kane, Lucy, and a baby from a large family named Hope, this episode gave me serious Once Upon a Time flashbacks!

Here's an idea:

Props to Itcouldbeworse for coming up with the idea of more kids from Kevin... first. I read his/her post after I wrote this one. 

What if Kevin has TWO SETS of twins. 

The young ones we saw last week.....10 years old approximately.....are another set from prodigious Kevin's lovely loins..... with a different woman than Madison.

His first set of twins from Madison are older ...say 15-20 years old...as befitting the flash forward at Rebecca's bedside/deathbed when everyone (Kevin, Rebecca,  Randall, etc.) looks alot older...say 15- 20 years older...at least. 

Kevin's nipples have alot to answer for... and I volunteer to delve deep with him to find out the answers. 

😉

🤪

Edited March 30, 2020 by Tosia

[txhorns79]

14 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

 

So if I’m understanding some of the comments, some think that horse doctor is  Kyle? So Dr. K took Rebecca‘s baby and raised it as his own after him and his wife lost their baby? That would be crazy but interesting.  So instead of sweet Dr. K we have sinister Dr. K? Horse doctor is the same Age range is the big three.

While I do love the idea of Dr. K pulling a Pearson and just bringing home a random baby from the hospital to raise, (I still have no idea how they would ever have been able to bring home Randall from the hospital.  It's not like you are just offered a new baby as a parting gift on discharge from the hospital.) I think that would be too insane, even for a show where Randall can win a seat on the Philadelphia City Council while residing in Northern New Jersey.     

Quote

The fight: Thermonuclear war.  Both lose.  Both fired to deeply hurt the other in a meaningful way.  I want them to come back from this, I don’t know how.  And this fight was coming since childhood. 

I appreciated that the show has really laid the foundation for their various grievances. 

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

It's not like you are just offered a new baby as a parting gift on discharge from the hospital.

Wait, I wasn’t supposed to take one?!?! 😉

[kili]

Quote

One that doesn't play out in the grand "Jack and Rebecca Pearson Love Story For The Ages" way he has romanticized in his head.

It's unfortunate that Kevin never knew that Jack and Rebecca Pearson Love Story left out a  lot of details. We've seen the beginning and they weren't all that romantic. It's hard to live up to perfection that was never there.

Jack may have wanted the best for his kids and always like to spin the fantasy, but being honest about how things really are can help to avoid giving kids unrealistic expectations. 

That was a real breakthrough moment when Kevin decided to stop trying to chase the fantasy of his parent's instant magical relationship and focus on building a real relationship. 

[DebbieM4]

On 3/24/2020 at 10:14 PM, greekmom said:

I don't think it was the location of the trial but the fact that a) it's 9 months and b) it's a long shot.

 

I think the location was the major factor.  Rebecca wanted to spend whatever quality time she had left with her family, not far away from them for such a long time.  At the end of 9 months she could deteriorate significantly.  My understanding was that she didn't want to take a chance on wasting that precious time.  

There is no family in St. Louis, or anywhere even close to being near.  I'm sure it looked to her as though she'd be leaving everything she loved, possibly (at least the way her brain would process it) forever.  She wanted to hang onto what she had, and not walk away from it for such a long time.  A lot can happen in 9 months, and I think she wanted to be with her family while she was at her best, not wasting that precious time so far away for so long.

Edited March 31, 2020 by DebbieM4

[statsgirl]

I read through this thread before watching the episode so after reading all the comments I was interested to see what the Randall/Kevin fight was like.

What I saw was Kevin confronting Randall and then Randall immediately going for the jugular, telling Kevin that his worst fears are true. Kevin's retaliation was right but I'm not going to blame him for reacting to what Randall said.

They both can use therapy. But Randall needs it badly.