S04.E18: Strangers: Part Two

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, Rohirrim said:

One of Sterling's Instagram posts mentioned that the "deathbed" scene takes place in the year 2045.  If that's true, that would make the Big 3 65 years old.  If that year is true, then Kevin and Madison's twins would be 24 or 25 years old.  I'm guessing Kevin eventually has more children in addition to the twins.

That cannot be right. According to the main showrunner, that scene is in 2031.  Kevin's twins are aged just right.  Tess, on the other hand, should only be 23.  The writers and actors are not on the same page when it comes to when those scenes are set.  Also, Nicky would be in his 90s.  Griffin Dunne did not look 90.

[AzraeltheCat]

5 minutes ago, Rohirrim said:

One of Sterling's Instagram posts mentioned that the "deathbed" scene takes place in the year 2045.  If that's true, that would make the Big 3 65 years old.  If that year is true, then Kevin and Madison's twins would be 24 or 25 years old.  I'm guessing Kevin eventually has more children in addition to the twins.

I don't see how that can be right.  Rebecca is supposed to be 68-70 now.  So if she lives another 25 years, that would make her 93-95.  Also, Nicky would be around the same age and he did not look that old. 

[Janie430]

I think what Kevin said was horrible.  I think it's one of those things that you wish to god you can take back, and can break a relationship.  I actually don't know if Kevin and Randall can come back from this, and a part of me hopes that they don't, because that's more realistic.

And I agree, that they seem to be going down the negative path for Randall right now, and it may be because they think Sterling can handle it.  And I think that there are more "Mom is siding with me, and needing my style of support right now, and I like it" feelings in Kevin than he would admit.

But Randall started this fight two episodes when he told Kevin that he was killing Rebecca by not forcing her to do the trial.  He also indicated his disdain for the work Kevin does by talking about how he was schmoozing with his Hollywood friends at the premiere, and that Randall had been taking care of Rebecca for 20 years, and clearly knew better.  SO the nastiness was a long time coming.  

Also, one of the things that has become clearer over the seasons is that Randall projects his feelings onto other people.  He externalizes everything so that he can only have "acceptable" emotions.  Randall is really intense, and was working in a field where a very intense African-American man could be perceived as a threat and discriminated against.  So I think Randall doesn't really know how to get angry in a manner that comes off as natural.  Instead he sounds reasonable, and cold.  But, given how much Randall has been talking about how Kevin abandoned Rebecca, I'm wondering how much of his issue is that he feels Kevin abandoned him.

  

 

[ShadowFacts]

30 minutes ago, kili said:

Randall is extremely attractive as well. 

I think so, but the 'Kevin is hot' comments here outnumber the Randall ones.  Kevin does nothing for me, I wouldn't look twice at him on the street, but that is probably in the category of unpopular opinions.  Different strokes.  I do think the perception of physical attractiveness plays into evaluations of the unacceptability of various behaviors. 

[Rohirrim]

34 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

That cannot be right. According to the main showrunner, that scene is in 2031.  Kevin's twins are aged just right.  Tess, on the other hand, should only be 23.  The writers and actors are not on the same page when it comes to when those scenes are set.  Also, Nicky would be in his 90s.  Griffin Dunne did not look 90.

I agree.  I don't understand why the cast and crew are playing fast and loose with the timeline and the aging of the characters.  Randall and Kevin looked just as old as Uncle Nicky.  Toby looked basically the same, just with more grey in his beard (going back to the season 3 finale).  

[sasha206]

16 hours ago, leftlane said:

WTF does her weight have to do with her providing a loving home for a child. Get out of here with that fatphobic nonsense.

 

Because of her overall health issues, that's why.   Maybe that sounds terrible to you, but your health IS considered when adopting a child.  Being morbidly obese is known to shave down your life expectancy.    If you don't believe me, take a look at this article. 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=3429655&page=1

Edited March 26, 2020 by sasha206

[ams1001]

58 minutes ago, AzraeltheCat said:

I don't see how that can be right.  Rebecca is supposed to be 68-70 now.  So if she lives another 25 years, that would make her 93-95.  Also, Nicky would be around the same age and he did not look that old. 

Maybe he meant Grown-up Baby Jack is in 2045...that would make more sense. If he's born 2019 he'd be 26 in those scenes which seems plausible.

[Crs97]

It could be really interesting if Rebecca starts the trial, but it has to end early because the drugs turn out to have horrible side effects or worsen the problem.

[ShadowFacts]

8 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

It could be really interesting if Rebecca starts the trial, but it has to end early because the drugs turn out to have horrible side effects or worsen the problem.

Imagine the Randall hate if that happened.  It would overwhelm.  Until kingdom come.

[Blackie]

1 hour ago, Rohirrim said:

One of Sterling's Instagram posts mentioned that the "deathbed" scene takes place in the year 2045.  If that's true, that would make the Big 3 65 years old.  If that year is true, then Kevin and Madison's twins would be 24 or 25 years old.  I'm guessing Kevin eventually has more children in addition to the twins.

 

so I guess that is not Rebecca on the deathbed????  maybe it is Kate? or Nikki's wife?

[PRgal]

I think some people upthread or in another episode mentioned that Kevin looks old because of his beard. Hmmmm...maybe it’s for a role?  Do we know if he’s still acting in the future?

[3 is enough]

When the show started, Kevin was shown to be the "stereotypical" celebrity, waking up hungover with some fan girl in his bed, plenty of money, yet not happy. Randall was shown to be the successful businessman with a beautiful wife and daughters, living in an upscale neighborhood.  

As the series progressed, Kevin was shown to have more redeeming qualities, and Randall was shown to have cracks in his perfect facade.  We have slowly been shown how their upbringing and the untimely death of their father has shaped them. 

I do recall a lot of negativity about Kevin in the early days, and a lot of Randall love.  Now the tables are turned.  At the end of the day they are both flawed characters, and I do believe this was the intent of the writers all along.  

There are only 36 episodes left.  I trust there will be a satisfying resolution, and that we will finally get the Rebecca/Miguel story.

 

[hookedontv]

4 hours ago, Dani-Ellie said:

Plus, Rebecca flat-out said she didn't want to do it. She still has the capacity to make her own decisions, medical or otherwise. Randall is stomping all over what Rebecca wants with his own wants. And what's more, he can't seem to recognize that the things she's doing with Kevin are things she wants to do. Randall accused Kevin of dragging her to the movie premiere without seeming to consider that maybe, just maybe, Rebecca wanted to go.

This is what is so heartbreaking. When people get a serious diagnosis (i.e.,  althzeimers, dementia, cancer, etc.) it's the start of losing control of their own lives. Doctors will start to decide treatments with the patient's consent, but the patient is catapulted into a completely different life. Even consenting patients will feel out of control because of treatment routines, side effects, etc. Their world changes, they can't go back. 

By coercing Rebecca to agree to the trial, Randall just adds to that level of helplessness and lack of control. It is absolutely heartbreaking. Rebecca should hold what level of independence and authority she has over her own life close and dear. And her family should be a support system and allow her to live her life and make decisions for herself while she can. They can make suggestions, be a sounding board, but please, give Rebecca the control and dignity she needs right now. 

I'm not sure I described this well, but that's how I feel. 

And by the way, there should have been a screen at the end of the show that read: "And this, fans, is why people should go to therapy." 

[Lady Calypso]

Hey everyone! It seems like there's some various disagreements going on in the thread so just a reminder of our Be Civil rule. It's ok to disagree, but let's keep it about the show and its characters, and NOT about other posters and their opinions and preferences. Be mindful of what you are posting. Thanks everyone and be safe! 

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, hookedontv said:

This is what is so heartbreaking. When people get a serious diagnosis (i.e.,  althzeimers, dementia, cancer, etc.) it's the start of losing control of their own lives. Doctors will start to decide treatments with the patient's consent, but the patient is catapulted into a completely different life. Even consenting patients will feel out of control because of treatment routines, side effects, etc. Their world changes, they can't go back. 

By coercing Rebecca to agree to the trial, Randall just adds to that level of helplessness and lack of control. It is absolutely heartbreaking. Rebecca should hold what level of independence and authority she has over her own life close and dear. And her family should be a support system and allow her to live her life and make decisions for herself while she can. They can make suggestions, be a sounding board, but please, give Rebecca the control and dignity she needs right now. 

I'm not sure I described this well, but that's how I feel. 

And by the way, there should have been a screen at the end of the show that read: "And this, fans, is why people should go to therapy." 

Yes.  Rebecca also needs to sit down with Miguel and make the hard decisions now.  I know she wants to carpe diem everything, but she does need to have her affairs in order.  These are not fun conversations, but they can save her family from heartbreak later.  She needs to see a lawyer and get it done now, then tell the kids what her intentions are.  The Rebecca we have seen in the last few episodes is talking to each kid separately except for the night at the Met.  She is giving Randall the opening to coerce her into the trial because she doesn't want to face the hard facts.  And I know they are hard facts.  Then she can seize the days she has left and feel some comfort that things are in place.

[Dejana]

In the flashforward to their 40th birthday in August, Kevin said his fiance had morning sickness. People thought that meant the Kevin/Madison hookup couldn't have led to the pregnancy, because she'd be pretty far along for morning sickness by then. Perhaps that was a hint toward hyperemesis gravidarum, which can persist throughout a pregnancy and is more common with multiples. 

I was looking back through the forum yesterday and read the episode thread for "The 20s", which showed Randall as an anxious dad-to-be eager to be the perfect parent. It also featured a storyline where Kevin tried horning in on his roommate's audition opportunity, and there were comments... Also stumbled across the site's "It's Time to Boot Kevin Off This Is Us" article. LOL, the worm has turned, but we have two more seasons to go and Sterling is a brilliant actor. Remember when Kate said that only she could carry on a piece of Jack Pearson? That was a "yikes" moment that didn't go over well.

Anyway, it's really interesting how many of Jack and Randall's actions were shaded as heroic/noble early on but as the series continued, their behavior got cast in a harsher light. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Dejana

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

It could be really interesting if Rebecca starts the trial, but it has to end early because the drugs turn out to have horrible side effects or worsen the problem.

Imagine the Randall hate if that happened.  It would overwhelm.  Until kingdom come.

Not if this is the moment that wakes Randall up to his shortcomings.  

[himela]

On 3/25/2020 at 7:02 AM, thesupremediva1 said:

Randall is a textbook narcissist and a terrible human being.

I don't agree and I find it sad that we feel free to judge a person (even a fictional character who could very well be a real person) so easily. Randall has not shown the best behavior lately but we have to admit he has some psychological problems that he hasn't resolved for years and he just started seeing a therapist. In his mind he is saving his mother and Kevin is the enemy who wants to prevent him from doing that. So maybe he is a narcissist, but a terrible human being? Come on, I would only call criminals that. Lets have some perspective.

[ShadowFacts]

Just now, Crs97 said:

Not if this is the moment that wakes Randall up to his shortcomings.  

If she were harmed or worsens because of it, I suspect he would remain among the unforgiven.  Kevin is not speaking to him at the 40th birthday, so maybe forgiveness would take more time than that.  I keep remembering they come together in some fashion at mom's end of days.  It helps me kind of distance from the ugliness of this episode.  The more distant future of Jack's new baby and sibling revelation strike me as a little trite so they just don't serve to balance out the sibling rivalry in overdrive that is Kevin and Randall right now.  I'm ready to move on and I hope they don't pick up next season right where they left off.

[ECM1231]

2 hours ago, Rohirrim said:

One of Sterling's Instagram posts mentioned that the "deathbed" scene takes place in the year 2045.  If that's true, that would make the Big 3 65 years old.  If that year is true, then Kevin and Madison's twins would be 24 or 25 years old.  I'm guessing Kevin eventually has more children in addition to the twins.

So, Rebecca dies at the age of 95?  That's a very long time to live with Alzheimer's. 😢

[Blakeston]

6 hours ago, MissLucas said:

She does not have much ground to stand on since she once called Randall 'not a real Pearson'.

Kate said that?

2 hours ago, Rohirrim said:

One of Sterling's Instagram posts mentioned that the "deathbed" scene takes place in the year 2045.  If that's true, that would make the Big 3 65 years old.  If that year is true, then Kevin and Madison's twins would be 24 or 25 years old.  I'm guessing Kevin eventually has more children in addition to the twins.

I think that was a mistake on his part. The Instagram post was a casual one about how the renegade dance is still around in 2045 because Kevin's daughter showed it to him. I'm guessing he got 2045 from the scenes with Jack and Lucy.

If they actually want us to believe that Rebecca lasted another 25 years with Alzheimer's, and Kevin had multiple sets of multiples...I think I'll give up the show.

[betha]

On 3/24/2020 at 10:13 PM, Bulldog said:

I can't imagine what connection Madison's doctor's daughter has to the rest of the show.  There better be one are that was a total waste of time. 

Because of the doctor’s daughter, Madison opened her mind to giving Kevin a chance. That was it and I think it was enough. It is similar to when they showed the story of the older couple who ended up giving Jack and Rebecca the crock pot. Sometimes people influence our lives in ways we won’t know and don’t understand. 

[marceline]

1 hour ago, 3 is enough said:

I do recall a lot of negativity about Kevin in the early days, and a lot of Randall love.  Now the tables are turned.  At the end of the day they are both flawed characters, and I do believe this was the intent of the writers all along.  

I hadn't thought about it that way but you are absolutely right. When we started Kevin was the screw up and Randall was the angel. Both of those roles have gotten a lot fuzzier now that we've been "living" with them for the last few years.

[betha]

15 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

 

What I want to know is just how Kate and Toby afford the adoption! They aren't cheap - and as they themselves said, they already have a huge mortgage in an expensive area, a special needs child who will no doubt need doctors and programs, and it's only Toby working. Funny how money is never really an issue in TVLand (unless the writers decide it's part of a plot...)

 

To be fair, her brother is a movie star. 

[nilyank]

None of the Pearson are bad people. They are just human that tend to do good things and make mistakes in their life. No one is perfect.

I actually thought that Madison's doctor was supposed to be Dr K although the clothing was completely off if he was. I think I thought this because we saw Dr K's daughter from a previous episode as an adult and I thought this was going to more filler backstory about him.

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, betha said:

Because of the doctor’s daughter, Madison opened her mind to giving Kevin a chance. That was it and I think it was enough. It is similar to when they showed the story of the older couple who ended up giving Jack and Rebecca the crock pot. Sometimes people influence our lives in ways we won’t know and don’t understand. 

There is a TVLine article regarding the doctor. There are potential spoilers, so I will just link it.

[gonzosgirrl]

36 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

If she were harmed or worsens because of it, I suspect he would remain among the unforgiven.  Kevin is not speaking to him at the 40th birthday, so maybe forgiveness would take more time than that.  I keep remembering they come together in some fashion at mom's end of days.  It helps me kind of distance from the ugliness of this episode.  The more distant future of Jack's new baby and sibling revelation strike me as a little trite so they just don't serve to balance out the sibling rivalry in overdrive that is Kevin and Randall right now.  I'm ready to move on and I hope they don't pick up next season right where they left off.

I think that even if it did do something to make Rebecca worse, he would be forgiven, if, as @Crs97 said, it was a come-to-jesus moment for him and he actually admitted his 'fault' and asked for forgiveness. Right now he is supremely self-righteous and absolutely believes he is right to be in control of in all things, despite the rebukes (for want a better word) from both Beth and his therapist. Yes, Kevin did and said some harsh things, now and in the past. And Nicky did something 'unforgiveable' in Vietnam. But both men have made real, conscious efforts to get help and be better (in all senses of the words), and the people in their lives forgave them (well, except for Randall, apparently). He will, no doubt, get the same treatment when he deserves it.

Edited March 26, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Aloeonatable]

23 hours ago, mommalib said:

Yes i'm a black male to be specific. And yes there has been progress but things are still moving kinda slow and I still see diversity issues, biases, stereotypes etc. But I agree that Randall is a delicious character and I'm sure Sterling K is pleased but I just wonder what made them make such a sharp turn with the character since season 1. And then there are the people that seem like they been waiting to hate on Randall for  a while now and they're in their judgmental glory.

You do know that there are several black writers on this show?

Randall has always been a very complex character, not all good, nor all bad. I don't see any sharp turn or shift in his character. Right now, his anxiety is front and center, and that is what is forming his actions. Everything he does now comes from that place. It should have been addressed in his childhood or adolescence, but it wasn't. 

It is also ok to dislike a character, or at least that character's actions, when called for. 

[Quiet1]

Brothers going through a very difficult and stressful time and having different ideas on what is best for Rebecca. Things get heated and they both blow up and say things they shouldn't. It will take time and communication to heal but the love between them is there and they will work it out.

Randall is not some villain wanting to tie his mom up in his basement to have her all to himself. He truly loves her and is afraid of losing her. He's done his research and believes this trial is best for her right now. His fear is what made him use the "I've been a good son" card. I'm sure he really believes that he hasn't asked for much over the years and has been there for her and will do anything to save her life. They all want to help Rebecca but just have different ideas on how to help her. 

It will be interesting to see what happens. Rebecca said they leave in three weeks and the trial is nine months long. We see her at the cabin for their 40th birthday party and she has gotten worse. Did she get a weekend away or is she not doing the trial? She still ends up living a long time after the trial timeline. 

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Kate said that?

My bad, I checked back - she just implied it without really thinking what she was saying and managed to hurt both her brothers. It was in ep 3.2 during a discussion about IVF when Rebecca was worried about the health risks for Kate. She claimed to be the only one in the family able to pass on 'a piece of Dad' (implying that Kevin was too much of a loser to become a dad and Randall not having the right genes). Randall was not present but Kevin was and he was pissed. He later mentioned her words to Randall and he did not take it too well either. It resulted in one of the rare scenes between Kate and Randall. Not a stellar moment for Kate but I admit not on the same level as Kevin's words.

Edited March 26, 2020 by MissLucas

[blondiec0332]

22 minutes ago, Quiet1 said:

Randall is not some villain wanting to tie his mom up in his basement to have her all to himself. He truly loves her and is afraid of losing her. He's done his research and believes this trial is best for her right now. His fear is what made him use the "I've been a good son" card. I'm sure he really believes that he hasn't asked for much over the years and has been there for her and will do anything to save her life. They all want to help Rebecca but just have different ideas on how to help her. 

The problem is he thinks what he wants takes precedent over what anyone else wants. Including Rebecca.

[Quiet1]

7 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

The problem is he thinks what he wants takes precedent over what anyone else wants. Including Rebecca.

Yes. I get that but he truly thinks it might save her and then they will all be grateful she did the trial in the end. Not saying he is right but he isn't evil either. 

[Ohiopirate02]

24 minutes ago, Quiet1 said:

Yes. I get that but he truly thinks it might save her and then they will all be grateful she did the trial in the end. Not saying he is right but he isn't evil either. 

I get where Randall is coming from, but in his efforts to save his mother he is making some great miscalculations.  First, Rebecca is going to die.  He is always going to have to deal with Rebecca's death.  Second, it's a trial meaning Rebecca may never receive the drug.  She potentially will spend nine months of whatever good time she has left in St. Louis receiving treatments that do not work.  She could have spent those months in California with her children and grandson.  She may also miss the birth of Kevin's twins because of this trial.  Randall is making his siblings give up on precious time with their mother.  Randall and his daughters got Rebecca.  They will have their own memories of Rebecca.  All Jack and Kevin's twins will have are stories and pictures.  Randall is taking away those scraps.  And also, third, Alzheimer's is not something that has a cure.  Even if this drug works, it will only prolong Rebecca's good times.  He cannot save her from this diagnosis.  

I know Randall's anxiety is playing a major factor in his thought processes.

[Neurochick]

I have had time to think about this episode, to think about the fight between Randall and Kevin.  I realized their fight wasn't between two adults, it was between two seven year old boys.

I think Kevin's psyche was formed at least somewhat, in that episode in the first season, the pool.  Randall found a black family and sat with them, Kate had an issue with some mean girls.  Rebecca went to look for Randall and Jack went to see about Kate.  During that time, Kevin almost drowned.  He looked around and didn't see his parents.  I think that might have changed him.  He realized that he wasn't "seen."  And he wanted to be seen, he started as an athlete and then an actor, a successful actor. 

I didn't think Rebecca and Jack were bad parents, they were adults.  They knew the world, they knew things would be harder for Randall because of his race, and hard for Kate because of her weight, and being a woman.  Kevin felt left out because Kevin was a child and probably didn't know much about white male privilege.

That's why Kevin got mad when Randall said, "it's always about you, you, you," to Kevin.  Because to Kevin it's never been about him, it's always been about Randall. 

When Kevin told Randall that the worst thing was when Jack and Rebecca brought him home, that sounded like something a seven year old would say.  I think Kevin always felt he was in Randall's shadow. 

However, I thought it was stupid when Kevin makes the snap decision (something an addict would do) to be a father, I'm sure that was done for drama's sake.

[SuzieQ]

I'm really shocked at all the people siding with either Randall or Kevin.  They were both so unbelievably out of line with each other.  It's like trying to decide if someone who stabs or strangles is better.  WTH?  They are BOTH full of themselves and arrogant.

[mommalib]

3 hours ago, Aloeonatable said:

You do know that there are several black writers on this show?

Randall has always been a very complex character, not all good, nor all bad. I don't see any sharp turn or shift in his character. Right now, his anxiety is front and center, and that is what is forming his actions. Everything he does now comes from that place. It should have been addressed in his childhood or adolescence, but it wasn't. 

It is also ok to dislike a character, or at least that character's actions, when called for. 

I agree that Randall is a fascinating character but as I have said in previous posts it seems that somewhere along the way it was decided to focus on and highlight Randall's more negative qualities.And they have done so a little too consistently for my taste. It has been especially noticeable to me in seasons 3 and 4. And then I look at Kevin and how his arc has gone in the opposite direction to the point where he seems a halo is over is head now, black writers or not it makes me wonder. And who knows how influential the are behind the scenes anyway. And then I see the responses not only here but  other places and all of s sudden Kevin is the good guy and Randall is scum. In season 1 that wasn't the case.

3 minutes ago, SuzieQ said:

I'm really shocked at all the people siding with either Randall or Kevin.  They were both so unbelievably out of line with each other.  It's like trying to decide if someone who stabs or strangles is better.  WTH?  They are BOTH full of themselves and arrogant.

Your absolutely right when you say BOTH but based off responses they're not being judged the same. Apparently there seems to be only enough sympathy and understanding for Kevin.

Edited March 26, 2020 by mommalib

[Neurochick]

3 minutes ago, mommalib said:

I agree that Randall is a fascinating character but as I have said in previous posts it seems that somewhere along the way it was decided to focus on and highlight Randall's more negative qualities.And they have done so a little too consistently for my taste. It has been especially noticeable to me in seasons 3 and 4. And then I look at Kevin and how his arc has gone in the opposite direction to the point where he seems a halo is over is head now, black writers or not it makes me wonder. And who knows how influential the are behind the scenes anyway. And then I see the responses not only here but  other places and all of s sudden Kevin is the good guy and Randall is scum. In season 1 that wasn't the case.

As a black woman, I do agree with this.  Why make the black man the bad guy, again?  And having black writers doesn't mean a damn thing.

However, I think this show is about life.  In the first season Randall had this great life, some people thought Beth was annoying.  Now more people like Beth and don't like Randall and like Kevin, but that's what happens in real life.  Life happens and people change.  Kevin got sober, Kate got married and had a baby, the dynamics of the family changed. 

No one is 100% bad or good and that's what life is like. 

I was moved by the scene in the flash forward when Kevin and Randall are standing at Rebecca's bedside.  Kevin puts his hand on Randall's shoulder.   It's like the two kids grew up.

 

[SuzieQ]

11 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

As a black woman, I do agree with this.  Why make the black man the bad guy, again?  And having black writers doesn't mean a damn thing.

However, I think this show is about life.  In the first season Randall had this great life, some people thought Beth was annoying.  Now more people like Beth and don't like Randall and like Kevin, but that's what happens in real life.  Life happens and people change.  Kevin got sober, Kate got married and had a baby, the dynamics of the family changed. 

No one is 100% bad or good and that's what life is like. 

I was moved by the scene in the flash forward when Kevin and Randall are standing at Rebecca's bedside.  Kevin puts his hand on Randall's shoulder.   It's like the two kids grew up.

 

You raise a really good point.  As a white chick and someone who is adopted,  I never even thought of the color thing but have always had a soft spot for Randall because of him being adopted.  That said, I still stand on THEY WERE BOTH SO FREAKING HORRIBLE TO EACH OTHER!  I just don't get how anyone could say one was worse than the other.  Family just needs to suck it up sometimes.  

Edited March 26, 2020 by SuzieQ
typo

[gonzosgirrl]

51 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

However, I thought it was stupid when Kevin makes the snap decision (something an addict would do) to be a father, I'm sure that was done for drama's sake.

It wasn't really a snap decision though - he said (in the season premiere?) that he wanted to have a family. And really, whether he 'decides' or not? He already is a father. He decided to be as involved as possible.

[Neurochick]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It wasn't really a snap decision though - he said (in the season premiere?) that he wanted to have a family. And really, whether he 'decides' or not? He already is a father. He decided to be as involved as possible.

That's what I meant.  He decided to be involved.  It was a snap decision.  Something a person with not a lot of sobriety might make, but possibly the best decision for him.

[meep.meep]

He could have thought about it for a week and reached the same decision.  Madison had decided to go through with the pregnancy whether or not he was involved.  It's kind of a gut decision whether or not to be a father under those circumstances.  You can make those quickly.

 

[MissLucas]

It's also something that has been on his mind for a while. Probably since the break-up with Zoe which was over the question of kids. Back then Zoe knew him better than he did himself but right now he knows what he wants and even if it does not come in the perfectly planned Pearson way he's willing to make the commitment.

[deirdra]

Either TIU has some bad makeup artists or the mismatched age progressions are done intentionally to confuse viewers, like many of the flashbacks & flashforwards, so you'll tune in next season to see what happens.  Part of the problem is that they cast Jason & Sterling, who are both older than their "parents" Mandy & Milo.  Chrissy is older than Mandy too. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by deirdra

[bettername2come]

Team Kevin in that argument. He at least started out fair and truthful, angry at Randall for undermining Rebecca's wishes and not even admitting it. Randall saying Jack died ashamed of him was such a low blow. Saying Jack died ashamed of Kevin and proud of him was so unfair. Saying he could never be devoted to anyone was a low blow and completely ignores the very close, sometimes codependent relationship he has with Kate. It ignores Kevin helping out Nicky and skipping out on his play to talk Randall down from panic attack. Kevin is flawed and his worst side has often come out in his relationship with Randall, and in 90 percent of their arguments, I will side with Randall. But he shot down every good thing about Kevin's character and his career and it was just mean. And as much as I hate what Kevin said, it wasn't the first shot and he just had two bombshells dropped on him in the span of 10 minutes. Randall doesn't have that excuse.

I thought Justin Hartley put in a great performance in the end. This could be the episode that gets him an Emmy nomination like the rest of the Pearsons got. I liked how Kevin said he wasn't walking away from the conversation with Madison, and then Randall said he wasn't walking away from this when he came back to argue. Nice parallel. In other parallels, both brothers think they could've saved Dad. Jeez, Kev, even last week you were saying Randall couldn't have done it and now you're saying you could've done it. Really? With your broken leg?

I liked seeing Tess holding little Jack, reminding me that she will be going into social services. 

The timeline seems wonky. No way have these flashforwards been taking place only ten-ish years in the future. Methinks Kevin might have multiple multiples. And Future Tess doesn't seem to be fresh out of college either.

[sasha206]

Am I the only one that thought Kevin's "worst thing that ever happened to me" comment sound something more likely to be said by Randall's bio daughters to Deja?  I mean, all Kevin ever knew was Randall being a part of their lives since he was an infant.  He doesn't know anything different.  The hurtful comment to me should've been "I wish Kyle had lived."

[PRgal]

13 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Team Kevin in that argument. He at least started out fair and truthful, angry at Randall for undermining Rebecca's wishes and not even admitting it. Randall saying Jack died ashamed of him was such a low blow. Saying Jack died ashamed of Kevin and proud of him was so unfair. Saying he could never be devoted to anyone was a low blow and completely ignores the very close, sometimes codependent relationship he has with Kate. It ignores Kevin helping out Nicky and skipping out on his play to talk Randall down from panic attack. Kevin is flawed and his worst side has often come out in his relationship with Randall, and in 90 percent of their arguments, I will side with Randall. But he shot down every good thing about Kevin's character and his career and it was just mean. And as much as I hate what Kevin said, it wasn't the first shot and he just had two bombshells dropped on him in the span of 10 minutes. Randall doesn't have that excuse.

I thought Justin Hartley put in a great performance in the end. This could be the episode that gets him an Emmy nomination like the rest of the Pearsons got. I liked how Kevin said he wasn't walking away from the conversation with Madison, and then Randall said he wasn't walking away from this when he came back to argue. Nice parallel. In other parallels, both brothers think they could've saved Dad. Jeez, Kev, even last week you were saying Randall couldn't have done it and now you're saying you could've done it. Really? With your broken leg?

I liked seeing Tess holding little Jack, reminding me that she will be going into social services. 

The timeline seems wonky. No way have these flashforwards been taking place only ten-ish years in the future. Methinks Kevin might have multiple multiples. And Future Tess doesn't seem to be fresh out of college either.

Which means these kids could still be from Sophie.  At her age, IVF wouldn’t be surprising.  Though these days, clinics like to do single transfers. 

[BC4ME]

 

On 3/25/2020 at 11:18 AM, mommalib said:

 

It's one thing for a character to have flaws it's another thing to have a character be defined by them and at this point I feel that's what they have done with Randall. And maybe it's not a racial thing to you but as a black man I can't help but feel like it is.

 

On 3/25/2020 at 11:20 AM, sasha206 said:

I'm white and I've also had the same thought -- they started this show with a character that is inspiring and now they make him a manipulative, hurtful person.   Why are they making Randall now the least likable of the 3?

I'm white too and I have to agree with both of you. I feel like Randall is not being cut the slack he deserves. He has plenty of reasons to be the way he is. Plus they really are trying to make him unlikeable IMO. Or at least they are pushing the image a black man has to maintain to be as accepted as a white guy even with lesser qualities. I'm still hanging in there with him but here's the thing (below), and something that is probably going to piss off some people. (Full disclosure, I haven't finished this thread but I knew I'd lose these posts if I waited to finish and I'm a really slow reader and I really did want to comment on this.) I've been thinking this for a long time but haven't mentioned it. Here goes:

This almost seems like some sort of social experiment. Here we have three arguably equally flawed individuals. It seems to me that, so much like life, the tall, good looking white guy gets cut more slack than he deserves while the black guy and the overweight woman get piled on almost like people are waiting for an excuse.

Okay, have at me. Sorry if this has already been brought up.  

[SuzieQ]

42 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

 

The timeline seems wonky. No way have these flashforwards been taking place only ten-ish years in the future. Methinks Kevin might have multiple multiples. And Future Tess doesn't seem to be fresh out of college either.

Both Kevin and Randall looked wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy older than 10 years from present.  Same with Rebecca.  In 10 years, she would be 75 tops.  She looked 102!

[ShadowFacts]

2 minutes ago, SuzieQ said:

Both Kevin and Randall looked wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy older than 10 years from present.  Same with Rebecca.  In 10 years, she would be 75 tops.  She looked 102!

I think Rebecca's birthdate was on her cognitive test and I think it was March 1950, but I haven't double checked.  That would make her 70 now and if we're seeing her 12 years hence she would be 82.  She looks like a pretty youthful 70, so how they showed her at 82 seems to track for me.

[Scarlett45]

33 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

This almost seems like some sort of social experiment. Here we have three arguably equally flawed individuals. It seems to me that, so much like life, the tall, good looking white guy gets cut more slack than he deserves while the black guy and the overweight woman get piled on almost like people are waiting for an excuse.

Black children are often taught that we have to be twice as good to have half as much. In our society if anyone doesn’t like someone a woman is doing (rightly or wrongly), the first thing they do is call her a slut, the second thing is talk about her weight (even if her behavior has nothing to do with her sex life or her weight). So yeah I see where people are coming from. 
 

When this show first started I really identified with all three siblings- Randall as a black person, Kate as a fat woman (although I am not morbidly obese or anything, in our current society I’m in the large side of average), and Kevin as the “normal one” (my sibling has a severe mental disability and is a perpetual toddler mentally). 
 

I think we have seen a lot of growth in Kevin over the last several seasons which he should be applauded for, but I don’t want the writers to throw Kate (whos a non entity) or Randall under the bus for that to happen.