S24.E09: Week 9 - Overnight Dates (Australia)

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, Adeejay said:

The premise has been the same since the show premiered.  Don't sign up if you have any objections.  Maddie is welcome to leave.  

Thank you!!

[tinkerbell]

I like Madi because she knows how to give a proper hug.  One where your feet stay on the ground.

[tinkerbell]

The date on top of the building was giving me anxiety. Heart racing, palms sweating, and they're calmly making out like there's no danger.

[EllenB]

3 minutes ago, tinkerbell said:

The date on top of the building was giving me anxiety. Heart racing, palms sweating, and they're calmly making out like there's no danger.

If Victoria had gotten that date, I'll bet she would have whined until Peter carried her.

[Artsda]

7 minutes ago, EllenB said:

If Victoria had gotten that date, I'll bet she would have whined until Peter carried her.

Yes, and how she can't do heights but then suddenly can. 

[call me ishmael]

You know, all of this shots of kangaroos looking puzzled and pensive makes me wonder if Mama Pete was talking about one of them.  Maybe she just wants a new pet.

[Wandering Snark]

I love me some good ole retroactive ultimatums! It's not his fault that he couldn't make heads or tales of your nonsense when you could have told him the actual issue with ONE simple sentance: "I'm saving myself for marriage." And she'd had months and she couldn't do it. Peter is a horny goober but as far as I can tell not a mindreader. You blew it girl. Or maybe that's not the best phrasing... let's go with "You could have cleared all this shit up in Cleveland." You CHOSE not to.

ETA: Thanks Rainsong for leading off with Peter not putting together "Wow, it's SOooooooooo cold out here" with giving her his jacket!! Way to read a signal Peter. Also tone deaf? Showing a nice jaunt around the city in a helicopter. Too soon?

Also mentioned but what (like) Australia doesn't (like) believe in... like...  kleenex?

Edited February 25, 2020 by Wandering Snark

[CrazyDog]

2 hours ago, angelamh66 said:

I don’t begrudge Madison her feelings, but when she said she had already compromised so much of herself to be on the show she lost me. Nobody forced you to do this. Maybe she just thought she’d stay on long enough to get her Insta numbers up, but then she should have self eliminated earlier. 

Peter and Madison are just a bad match anyway. He isn’t a practical thinker or he would realize that. Being with someone that religious when you aren’t just isn’t realistic. You approach life’s difficulties in different ways. I could never be with someone who thinks god has a plan etc... because I very strongly don’t believe that. 

Yup. Madison's a nice 23 yr old who somehow thought that the best way to meet a religious conservative who shares her values was a reality tv dating show with a lead who would be dating 30 other woman. She's nice and all but I don't have a lot of sympathy for her. She signed up for this well-known hookup show.

He's been kissing, developing feelings (entry-level Peter-style anyway), and getting somewhat intimate with other women since Night 1. I know she doesn't get to see it all, but still. As has been mentioned, there is a lot of intimacy that goes beyond sex.

I do absolutely agree with her that the lead sleeping with other people days before an engagement doesn't make sense, but it's typical for this show. Maybe it would have been less awkward if she'd told him much earlier in the season.

I wonder if she'd agree to be Bachelorette if she doesn't "win" this show. I can't imagine that she'd want to be on the flip side and getting all emotionally intimate with a dozen dudes. At least she's gotten more Instagram followers out of the deal.

Victoria...whatever. She really has an unpleasant vindictive side.

And for those saying Hannah Ann is a doormat, I continue to think she justs wants to win. Peter sleeping around doesn't bother her because she doesn't really give a hoot about him.

Australia is beautiful but this ep was a kind of hard to watch knowing the general events of the last few months

This is a seriously lackluster season, despite some entertaining moments. I don't see any contenders for Bachelorette next season. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by CrazyDog

[meatball77]

4 hours ago, angelamh66 said:

I don’t begrudge Madison her feelings, but when she said she had already compromised so much of herself to be on the show she lost me. Nobody forced you to do this. Maybe she just thought she’d stay on long enough to get her Insta numbers up, but then she should have self eliminated earlier. 

Peter and Madison are just a bad match anyway. He isn’t a practical thinker or he would realize that. Being with someone that religious when you aren’t just isn’t realistic. You approach life’s difficulties in different ways. I could never be with someone who thinks god has a plan etc... because I very strongly don’t believe that. 

It's funny because it's both Colton and Cassie and Hannah and Luke.  Madison, like Cassie got far further into the series than they thought they would even though they were too religious for the show (although Cassie at least had the right bachelor), and then we have a sex positive lead who has fallen for a very religious partner who just assumes that they know how they feel about sex and will follow it.

The Bachelor/ettes's do seem to be having more sex in the fantasy suite than they used to.  The producers did miss out on an opportunity for Peter to do some pre-fantasy suite fucking like we've had in the past.

These girls just don't seem to really care about Peter like girls have in the past.  I don't see anyone breaking down and crying about her aging overies.

[econ07]

This has nothing to do with moral principles in the case of Madison.  If it did, she would want Peter to repent of the windmill episodes.  

I'm guessing it has everything to do with what any self-respecting person would want ... if somebody is seriously considering marrying you, you would not want them sleeping with others in the days or weeks leading up to your engagement.  If he wants to marry this person for life, why not do everything you can to get her.

[JenE4]

I think the problem is that Peter is 100% in love with...whichever girl is in front of him at the moment. He’s like the Dory* of emotions. (*Of “Finding Nemo”) So on his date with Madi he “suddenly” realizes she could be his wife and he screwed up—literally. But when he slept with Hannah Ann and Victoria, he was convinced he was going to marry each of them at the time. No wonder why he needs mom to tell him which one to go after!

[nickp1991]

I personally think Peter and Victoria are perfect for each other 

[nlkm9]

9 hours ago, Dejana said:

Hannah Ann knows Peter is the most into Madison so she's worried he will go chasing after her. It's what Colton did last season when the one he wanted dropped out. 

Exactly ! So if she says oh “Peter, don’t worry you can do whatever you want and I’ll just be here waiting “ oh this show always makes women look sooo bad..... and pathetic . Ugh. 
 

a surreal moment - the girls complimenting each other on looking skinny and pretty? They are all heading out to fool around with the same guy. So so wierd.

[Mu Shu]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Does he disappear at Hanging Rock?

Maybe a dingo will eat him!

[nlkm9]

2 hours ago, meatball77 said:

It's funny because it's both Colton and Cassie and Hannah and Luke.  Madison, like Cassie got far further into the series than they thought they would even though they were too religious for the show (although Cassie at least had the right bachelor), and then we have a sex positive lead who has fallen for a very religious partner who just assumes that they know how they feel about sex and will follow it.

The Bachelor/ettes's do seem to be having more sex in the fantasy suite than they used to.  The producers did miss out on an opportunity for Peter to do some pre-fantasy suite fucking like we've had in the past.

These girls just don't seem to really care about Peter like girls have in the past.  I don't see anyone breaking down and crying about her aging overies.

Maybe Madison was afraid if she revealed her saving herself in the beginning she would have never made it this far. She does engage in some pretty heavy making out . This is not the show for her, and i would be mortified if my kid was on national tv in any of these seasons honestly . Victoria  f saying “ i love him so much” she is a child and to her sex means love. 

[Stan39]

6 hours ago, TomGirl said:

I may be the only one with this opinion, but I’m not so sure he did sleep with anyone else.  He confesses that he “was intimate” in the FS, but that could mean any number of things, all stopping short of the final deed.  And if he did stop short, Madison might be willing to let it go.

I also doubt production is willing to let Peter clear the air and tell the truth. Let’s be honest, the show what’s it to appear that the lead sleeps with all three so that it creates more drama and viewers don’t figure out who gets picked. It’s only after they film that some of the leads come out and tell people they don’t sleep with everyone. 

[stefinny]

1 hour ago, econ07 said:

This has nothing to do with moral principles in the case of Madison.  If it did, she would want Peter to repent of the windmill episodes.  

I'm guessing it has everything to do with what any self-respecting person would want ... if somebody is seriously considering marrying you, you would not want them sleeping with others in the days or weeks leading up to your engagement.  If he wants to marry this person for life, why not do everything you can to get her.

Thank you!  For the record, I have watched this show from it's inception and no, I was no angel before I was married.  It would have been nice if she told him she was "saving herself", but in my opinion that is not the issue here.  I can even believe that it's possible for the lead to be in love with more than one person, however, by the fantasy suite dates I'm pretty sure most of the leads know which of the three they would choose as a life partner.  So I don't think it's too much to ask that your future fiance refrains from banging anyone else the week before the proposal.

[EllenB]

1 hour ago, nlkm9 said:

 

a surreal moment - the girls complimenting each other on looking skinny and pretty? They are all heading out to fool around with the same guy. So so wierd.

When Hannah Anna Banana said "You're so skinny!" to Viper Victoria, and Viper Victoria replied "Thenkyow," I really wish Hannah Anna Banana would have said "Oh, it wasn't a compliment, I meant that you look like shit."

Does Viper Victoria ever blink like a regular person?  It's always so slow-motion, like a reptile.

[nutty1]

Hannah Ann and Victoria sitting together, not actually saying they had sex with the same guy one day apart, but insinuating it, was just too weird to watch. And let’s make that most likely less than 24 hours apart!! Ewww. 
Neither Victoria or Hannah Ann truly loves Peter, IMO. If they did, the above would not be so easy for them. 

[Jillibean]

I am totally team Madi. Yes, there might be a “process,” but as we all know, the process almost never works. This shouldn’t just be about Peter deciding which of three devoted women he will choose. There are two people in each of these relationships, and Madi has every right to have her own ideas and to get to choose for herself whether Peter is right for her. And really, nothing she said was at all unreasonable. You should be able to know of the person you’re in a relationship with is having sex with other people, especially in the context of a conversation about intimacy between the two of you. If he doesn’t know who he’s going to propose to in a week, he isn’t ready to marry any of them. And if he does know, but wants to have sex with everyone else anyway, Madi has every right to say that’s not the guy for her. And she DID let him know ahead of time that she felt that way. Good for her for calling out the long accepted, but totally ridiculous, convention that it’s somehow not weird for a guy to propose to someone when he’s been intimate with other women three days earlier.

Throughout this whole show, Peter has seemingly gotten off on having the power, basically telling women what they need to do to demonstrate their feelings and almost coming close to threatening people like Kelley when they didn’t provide exactly what he wanted. In this case, you could see him try to knock Madi back into her little box by reminding her who was in charge (“I’m really uncomfortable right now,” “I can see it being someone else at the end with me,”). When Madi leveraged her own participation against his veiled threats that he was in charge, he had nothing left. He had clearly been counting on basically being able to quietly intimidate her into accepting what he wanted as what she would have to be okay with. 

My overall feeling is—good for her. 

[alexa]

13 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

I am totally team Madi. Yes, there might be a “process,” but as we all know, the process almost never works. This shouldn’t just be about Peter deciding which of three devoted women he will choose. There are two people in each of these relationships, and Madi has every right to have her own ideas and to get to choose for herself whether Peter is right for her. And really, nothing she said was at all unreasonable. You should be able to know of the person you’re in a relationship with is having sex with other people, especially in the context of a conversation about intimacy between the two of you. If he doesn’t know who he’s going to propose to in a week, he isn’t ready to marry any of them. And if he does know, but wants to have sex with everyone else anyway, Madi has every right to say that’s not the guy for her. And she DID let him know ahead of time that she felt that way. Good for her for calling out the long accepted, but totally ridiculous, convention that it’s somehow not weird for a guy to propose to someone when he’s been intimate with other women three days earlier.

Throughout this whole show, Peter has seemingly gotten off on having the power, basically telling women what they need to do to demonstrate their feelings and almost coming close to threatening people like Kelley when they didn’t provide exactly what he wanted. In this case, you could see him try to knock Madi back into her little box by reminding her who was in charge (“I’m really uncomfortable right now,” “I can see it being someone else at the end with me,”). When Madi leveraged her own participation against his veiled threats that he was in charge, he had nothing left. He had clearly been counting on basically being able to quietly intimidate her into accepting what he wanted as what she would have to be okay with. 

My overall feeling is—good for her. 

This.  I think she handled it perfectly because it was all about the reality of -- if it is really me you wanted to share your life with, you would not have slept with two other women right before your date with me.  And regardless that this is the Bachelor show, this is simply the truth.  If you are sincere about a person and marriage you don't test drive a couple of other women and then choose the other to marry.  I found it funny how thrown off guard Peter was about this.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

But if Peter's NOT going to choose Madison in the end, then why would he listen to her?  Is everyone just spoiled at the outcome and they already know Peter's picking her?  Why is everyone acting like her decree is sacred?

I can't believe Madison waited until the last minute like this.  Come on.  Peter had like 100 arguments with Victoria all in the name of wanting to sleep with her at the end of this.  LOL.  In what world was he going to pass that up.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[valen]

He better pick Madison after he BEGGED her to stay and said "I cannot lose you." At the very least, he should respect her enough to cut her if he isn't going to pick her. If he picks someone else, I don't see how they recover from him begging her to stay 

[galaxychaser]

Peter isn’t all that . 
Every time they say like eat a bite of cake. You can eat a whole cake in 1 episode.

The bachelor: all virgins season 25! Come on producers I need it.

 

 

 

[JudyObscure]

10 hours ago, SallyAlbright said:

Garrett from Hannah's season just tweeted this:

Here’s the difference: Madison actually lives the life she’s preaching about. Game over.

Seems like a not so thinly veiled reference to Luke P. 

I read it as comparing Madison with Hannah who claimed to be a dedicated,  leader of her family, Christian, but then proceeded do anything she wanted to do, obviously putting current societal rules ahead of Biblical ones. At least Peter was honest with Madison weeks ago when he basically said he wasn't the same sort of Christian she was, but hinted that he was interested in doing better.  All I can guess is Madison thought if he loved her he would change.  

I don't mind that Madison came on the show. It's always been understood that the Fantasy Suite was optional ("If you choose to forgo...") and after Luke was edited to look like a horrible slut-shamer, (which he wasn't) she may have wanted to portray a normal Christian girl who doesn't shame others, but quietly sticks to her principles. "Witnessing" is an important part of Christian life.

I've never bought into the need to "test drive" a person, I think if you love someone it's going to be good and fine points and preferences can be worked out later.

In any case Peter doesn't deserve Madison, he wants Victoria, who is either angry or crying most of the time and  can't say why.  He finds that exciting.  That must explain all the married men she managed to get.  They probably had nice wives at home who were happy and knew how to talk.  How boring!

For myself, the fact that Peter likes that about Victoria would be the deal breaker, not the sex thing,  because a balanced emotional life is what I strive for in my home,  so we would be at cross purposes.

 

[galaxychaser]

9 hours ago, HerkyJerky said:

Was Victoria blowing her nose on her dress?  Get the girl a tissue!

She should have put some Kleenex in her bra. Whip it out as needed.

[TheFinalRose]

5 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

In any case Peter doesn't deserve Madison, he wants Victoria, who is either angry or crying most of the time and  can't say why.  He finds that exciting. 

I suppose Victoria's crying act reminds him of his mother. We've seen Mamma Weber's teary plea to "Bring her home" and most of us can't imagine why she's so torn up about a woman whom--if it's Maddie--she's met only once or twice, and if it's Hannah or Victoria then met only once. (That's assuming all goes well and the final 2 meet Peter's parents). Peter responds to tears and views them as evidence of great feelings and love and we can all see why he thinks that. 

 

1 hour ago, alexa said:

I found it funny how thrown off guard Peter was about this.  

Yes he seems extremely dim.  Maddie was saying, if you want to be my husband, then start acting like it.  I like how she said actions mean more to her than words but Peter put "the process" on a pedestal and it fell over on him.  

[sistersledge]

I've only been half paying attention to this season because I think Peter is a huge doofus, but I'm guessing Madison went on the show for fun, never expecting to make it this far, and also fall into the Stockholm syndrome trap. 

She's spent how much time with him? I can see how because it's probably very little time, the opportunity to bring this up never seemed like a good time. Never underestimate the power of a producer whispering in her ear to talk about it later.

[Bobcatkitten]

Is it creepy and ridiculous for someone to have sex with one girl and propose to another one week later? Absolutely. But it's the basis of the show. Same with dating 10 girls at once. All creepy and ridiculous. So why would she go on there? I respect her for standing up for her morals and convictions but then find a different show? 

She did the same thing Luke did, just more eloquently. And because she has been nothing but nice and fun the whole show (as opposed to idiot Luke) people are defending it as somehow being completely different. 

[leighdear]

I think the biggest misconception here is what the "Engagement" at the very end actually is. 

It's not like a real engagement that normal people have.  The couple usually get 2-3 days together at the proposal location, then fly home separately.  A few out-of-town hook ups before the airing of the show and the finale.  They probably spend a total of a week together, despite being "engaged" for a few months.  

As we've seen, most couples can't withstand the unnatural circumstances, so why do people keep insisting that the engagement actually means a marriage?  I know, it's what the show is supposed to be about, but rarely ever is.  Only 5 couples in 38 have made it.   

Insisting that all of the traditional engaged-couple behaviors need to be observed just doesn't work, from what I've seen.  And that includes fantasy suite dates.  I think sex with all or none is fine.  

  

Edited February 25, 2020 by leighdear

[LBS]

I'm both-siding all the talk about Madison because while I don't think she should of signed up for the show since she is very sincere in her beliefs and this is obviously not the show for that BUT at the same time, why couldn't the lead not sleep with everyone?  It's a perfectly reasonable ask especially since the ATFR seems to always ends with the lead stating that they "knew from the beginning that it was so and so, blah blah blah".  

Does anyone else feel that the show is becoming more and more Hunger Games like?  The amount of mean production involvement is making me feel bad about watching.  From staging Arie's and Becca's break up to the Chase Rice concert (even though I don't "like" Victoria) to having all three final contestants in one suite and making sure Madison knew she was last, I feel like it has gone from frothy fun to just uncomfortable voyeurism.  I'm the ultimate wrong reason watcher too!   

[Koalagirl]

I think Victoria was trying to make up the story of her past relationship as she went along.  She was being very vague and when she couldn’t quickly think up specific details she kept deflecting to “I don’t know what you want me to tell you.”

Big Pete couldn’t keep Little Pete in his pants because he was so happy not to have sex in a windmill!

i think the producers edited in the scene behind that glass door just for effect with two people who were not Peter and Hannah Ann.  However they did not show the scene with Peter and whomever rolling around in bed under the covers while they were wearing colorful socks, as seen in the preview at the end of last week’s episode. 

 

[RealHousewife]

12 hours ago, GracieK said:

Madison clearly was suffering from fear of backlash like Luke received. She was having difficulty expressing how she felt without worry of being slammed for being “judge mental”. If slut shaming is a thing, now the pendulum has swung to morals shaming. I think you can sign up for this show with the hopes that if you and the lead fall in love that the lead will follow their heart and not necessarily sleep with others. Quite frankly I find the idea that he or she has some unadulterated right to test drive all of the contestants without fear of being questioned on it to be the opposite of any kind of feminism or decent character trait I would subscribe to. 

 

Beautifully said! 

[Ms Blue Jay]

33 minutes ago, LBS said:

I'm both-siding all the talk about Madison because while I don't think she should of signed up for the show since she is very sincere in her beliefs and this is obviously not the show for that BUT at the same time, why couldn't the lead not sleep with everyone?  It's a perfectly reasonable ask especially since the ATFR seems to always ends with the lead stating that they "knew from the beginning that it was so and so, blah blah blah".  

She is of course within her right to ask and he is of course within his right to say no.

[valen]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

She is of course within her right to ask and he is of course within his right to say no.

I think this is what happened. She told him BEFORE the fantasy suites that she couldn't see herself moving forward with someone that slept with another girl. Perfectly normal. Not every lead sleeps with all the finalists. He had a choice. She didn't demand that he not do it. She explained to him how she felt. The bachelor RIGHT BEFORE Peter didn't do it. Nick didn't do it. Sean didn't do it. It's not an unreasonable thing to ask. Just because most contestants say they are okay with it, it doesn't mean that they are. In fact, many of the couples break up BECAUSE the lead slept with others. Nick has said he specifically didn't sleep with anyone but Vanessa because he didn't want there to be issues at the end.

Peter had a choice to make. He knew how she felt, and he slept with someone else anyway. I don't think he took her seriously. He's too caught up in his own hype. 

[Alexander Pope]

14 hours ago, SallyAlbright said:

Hannah should be thrilled at Madison's stance. Much less competition for her if Madi drops out. I actually don't know why the other women care at all, if anything it's great news for them. 

I think they're secretly elated but pretending for the cameras that they care so much about Peter that they're outraged on his behalf (which Victoria F literally said).

[jackjill89]

14 hours ago, Riplet68 said:

Yeah....she sounds really excited (Victoria saying she’s excited for date).  
 

he loves everything about Victoria, and everything is great except the communication?!?  That makes for a lasting marriage (eye roll).  And she says she can tell him anything!!!  Ack

She can't string two words together, so I doubt she can tell him much.

Peter with loving her "challenging" him -- she is exhausting. That will grow old really quickly. People who love drama aren't content when things are just fine. They will manufacture drama out of anything to keep life "exciting." Ugh.

I know what Madison was telling Peter was very much what Luke told Hannah, but she explained her feelings much better and didn't shame him. She did give him an ultimatum though and while it doesn't fit with the premise of the show, I can't say I don't agree with her. So many of the leads say they knew right away. Well, if you did, then why do you make out and/or sleep with everyone else? Some leads have said they need to give into the process and explore all those relationships. That is just producer speak. If you know who you feel strongly about, you can play the game without indulging in the "falling in love with you" crap. Back in the early days, the leads weren't allowed to say a peep to anyone about their feelings. Now the game is to tell them all you love them, or are falling for them and then dump them. It's a real mindfuck for everyone involved. I have to say, as a long-time viewer. I liked older seasons better. There was drama, but not the overtly producer manipulative kind, most of them weren't there for Instafame, and they weren't so overly aware of how to get screen time. There is a lot of inherent drama in the game as it is without overtly manipulating it for drama. It's ridiculous. I also yearn for the days when the fantasy suite wasn't the overtly bang each finalist one night after another. It's the in your face overtness of the manipulation etc. that bugs. I liked it better when the game was a little more under the table about things.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by jackjill89

[DEL901]

Oh, how the show has changed.  I remember in Ashley's season when she went on a 1-1 date with one of the guys around final 6 and he came back and shyly told the guys he finally got to kiss her.

I like that Madison told Peter BEFORE the fantasy suites, even if she wasn't very articulate.  And, remember, didn't her father wax on about his perfect, innocent snowflake?  Did Peter think she'd go into the fantasy suite with him and lose her virginity on national television?

It was Peter's choice to decide he wanted to bang all three, justifying it by saying he was in love with all 3.  If he really was, he shouldn't have had sex with any of them, IMO.

[Cornhusker12]

I think Hannah Ann and Peter actually seem like a decent match in the grand scheme of things. Clearly none of them are going to have a lasting relationship, let alone get married, but Peter and Hannah Ann both just seem kind of on the same wavelength and maturity level. My sister nailed it last night when she said they seem like high school seniors who are trying to decide whether to try to stay together when they go off to college. Neither of them seem particularly deep, and they both have a LOT more growing to do and experiences to have before they're ready to actually settle down and get married, but that's the level both of them are at and I actually think they could be relatively happy together for awhile!

And as for her comments that "whatever happens this week I will still be here for you," I actually think she was just being clear-eyed about the situation and the show they are on. In the real world of course NOBODY would be ok with their potential fiance sleeping with someone else a week before proposing. But this is The Bachelor, none of it operates the way the real world operates, and I actually thought she was smart and realistic to just cut the BS in that moment.

[alexa]

1 hour ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Is it creepy and ridiculous for someone to have sex with one girl and propose to another one week later? Absolutely. But it's the basis of the show. Same with dating 10 girls at once. All creepy and ridiculous. So why would she go on there? I respect her for standing up for her morals and convictions but then find a different show? 

She did the same thing Luke did, just more eloquently. And because she has been nothing but nice and fun the whole show (as opposed to idiot Luke) people are defending it as somehow being completely different. 

I don't think it is necessarily the basis of the show that the lead has to sleep with everyone, though.  That is a choice they can make, but the girls don't have to go along with it, be okay with it, or choose the guy.  Even though this show isn't great at this idea--it is a two way street.  The person still has the right to be a "contestant", and is not required to sleep with the lead, be okay with them pimping themselves out to everyone, etc.  And I think people think what she did was different because she did try to explain to him how important this was to her, and gave him a choice.  After that it was her responding to his choice and trying to figure out what to do.

[shouldbedancing]

I'm honestly worried about Peter, he's dumb.

[Cornhusker12]

With Madison, I can't help but see it from both sides. I don't blame her in the slightest for making that moral choice and wanting to stick with it. She has gone her whole life with the plan to wait for marriage, and to find a husband who will share her morals and be the "religious leader of the family" and she doesn't want to throw that life-long plan aside.

HOWEVER, she has 100% control over her involvement in this show and in this situation. If she wants to choose her morals over the setup of the show, she absolutely should! If she thinks Peter can be molded into the type of man she has been holding out for, she can make decisions based on that as well. But it's not like she's some naive Pollyanna they recruited off the street, she knows what the show is and who Peter is and what she was deciding to be a part of from the beginning. He clearly has never thought of sex as a sacred moral part of the equation. I totally understand that she does, and I don't begrudge her that at all. But vaguely trying to tell him it would be a dealbreaker for him to sleep with the other contestants and expecting him to take on her morals is in itself a sign that they aren't compatible. 

So I guess my grand point is that there is no way Peter fits the parameters she has set out in her mind all these years, and it would be in her best interest to bow out. If she truly believes in her religious morals and wants to live by them strictly, and I have no reason NOT to believe she's sincere, then she should be able to see that it will never work and she should be trying to find someone who shares her morals instead of someone who she will have to bend to her morals.

[Captain Asshat]

14 hours ago, Adeejay said:

Victoria to Peter: "Last night was so good."  If she isn't his final one, then he has a lot of explaining to do.  This is why most of the couples from this franchise do not work out.  

Well, this and the fact that, once the cameras leave, the show stops paying for elaborate dates, and they actually spend real time together, they realize they're actually horrible together.

[dirtypop90]

13 hours ago, Mswldflwr said:

More like Hannah B, I'd say.

 

Yep. Isn't Luke P abstaining from sex until marriage and has been since he got saved? That means he's walking the walk. 

I see no difference between what Luke said and what Madison said. Madison is just more articulate and a likable woman. She gave him an ultimatum and preached about her "high standards" all the same. It's funny to watch the different reactions, though. I went back to watch Luke P's conversation again and he was very calm and said nothing offensive or unreasonable. Hannah was defensive because she felt guilty about banging those other men and wanted the freedom to bang them all and still get a proposal. Cool if another man wanted to propose to her after that, but Luke said he did not. He never said she wasn't worthy of some other man. Madison is saying the exact same.

[jackjill89]

When Hannah Ann came back from her date with Peter, I did wonder for a bit if Peter and she didn't have sex and she realized that it was because he was all in for Madison. 

As a poster previously said -- Peter said "intimate" -- now I would love if it meant they did stuff, but not actually had sex, because that would make Hannah Ann and Victoria reel a bit. However, I think the ol' horndog did it multiple times with each of them b/c he does have that windmill reputation to uphold. 

Did Peter ever say how he felt about being Mr. Windmill Fourtimes with Hannah then being dumped for Jed? You'd think that these repeat contestants might understand how the "winner" feels after it happened to them. 

[Alexander Pope]

13 hours ago, Cheryl 47 said:

Things that annoy me about The Bachelor. 

1 get a tissue.  Stop wiping your nose with your hands. There's gotta be a napkin on the table. 

2. Leave the hair alone every 2 seconds. 

3. Stop jumping on the guy wrapping your legs around him. 

Ok.  I'm  done. 

Victoria F used her dress to wipe her nose and face because of lack of tissues.  Classy!

[DEL901]

https://people.com/tv/the-bachelor-chris-harrison-why-women-living-together-fantasy-suites/

Quote

“Peter, for example, has trouble making decisions,” he continued. “I don’t know if you guys have noticed that. The king of kicking the can down the road. Heaven forbid you make a decision.”

 

[Cornhusker12]

40 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

Yep. Isn't Luke P abstaining from sex until marriage and has been since he got saved? That means he's walking the walk. 

I see no difference between what Luke said and what Madison said. Madison is just more articulate and a likable woman. She gave him an ultimatum and preached about her "high standards" all the same. It's funny to watch the different reactions, though. I went back to watch Luke P's conversation again and he was very calm and said nothing offensive or unreasonable. Hannah was defensive because she felt guilty about banging those other men and wanted the freedom to bang them all and still get a proposal. Cool if another man wanted to propose to her after that, but Luke said he did not. He never said she wasn't worthy of some other man. Madison is saying the exact same.

The big difference was that Luke was an asshole all season and Hannah gave him chance after chance and disregarded warnings from other guys multiple times. He may have been "walking the walk" in terms of his born again virginity, but not in being a pious virtuous person. When he got all sanctimonious at the end it made Hannah realize how phony he was and how duped she had been. That's why it was different. Madison might be saying the same things, but she didn't have an entire season's worth of acting like a jerk leading up to that moment.

[JudyObscure]

 

2 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

She did the same thing Luke did, just more eloquently. And because she has been nothing but nice and fun the whole show (as opposed to idiot Luke) people are defending it as somehow being completely different. 

I defended Luke as well.  He did some shady stuff early in the show but telling Hannah that if she slept with the other guys it would be a deal breaker for him was not one of them.  He had a right to his own standards just as Madison does.  People only thought Luke was slut-shaming Hannah because she said he was in her big shouty attempt to deflect and cast herself as some sort of feminist icon.

I think Luke and Madison were the most interesting people in their seasons.  In fact I would love to see more   diversity of religion, with more Muslims, Orthodox Jews, Buddhists, as well as  Evangelical Christians like Luke and Madison.  I'd also like to hear someone say if you're way into Nascar (or crafting, or gun collecting, or pet reptiles, or liver and onions, or Crossfit) that would be a deal breaker for me.

[GracieK]

It’s not like Madison reacted to Peter’s admission by having a meltdown, scolding him, shaming him or judging him. She told him how she felt before the fantasy suites, he wasn’t interested in making a sacrifice for her and his professed feeling for her was not enough to dictate his actions, and now she’s hurt and sad. It’s ok for her to be disappointed. It’s ok that she took a chance and put her feelings out there and now may walk away because her expectations weren’t met. Otherwise what are we saying? That only one specific type of person has a “right” to be a contestant on this show? She handled herself with poise. While it would never be MY choice to do a show like this, I have to respect that she conducted herself with maturity and class.