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Lady Calypso

S01.E09: Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part Two

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WORLDS WILL LIVE... WORLDS WILL DIE... AND THE CWVERSE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!

 

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The group uses Ray’s invention to track new recruits to help save the universe. The Monitor sends Iris, Clark and Lois in search of a mysterious Kryptonian, while Kate and Kara head out to find Bruce Wayne. In addition, Mia challenges Sara, Rory discovers a hidden talent, and Lex Luthor returns.

 

 

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This episode didn't have a lot of actual plot stuff moving forward, but it had a lot of meta stuff and Easter Eggs, so yay!

I mean, I guess, in terms of plot stuff, we have the Paragon stuff. We have Oliver coming back through the Lazarus Pit (and now with the pickle of a magic-free John Constantine). And we have Lyla being transported to help the Anti Monitor.

Smallville stuff was fun, even as someone who didn't watch the show. I liked how they handled that.

Brandon Routh as Clark Kent was fun. I never got into any Superman films so I don't have the nostalgia factor than others, but BR did a great job and he looked like he had a blast putting on that suit again (I assume that's his original suit, or something close to it).

Lex is always a fun character. I loved seeing Lois/Iris and Kara/Kate team-up. 

I liked seeing Bruce Wayne. His interactions with Kate were great. I also enjoyed seeing Luke and Kara interact.

Barry...once again, did pretty much nothing but stand around and declare that he'd find a Lazarus Pit to raise Oliver from the dead, but still needed Sara and John to find it.

Sara/Mia were unexpectedly interesting. Not exactly fun, but interesting. Mia may be grieving her father, but she just got a lesson in how she WASN'T prepared to raise her father from the dead. 

Overall, a lot more fun Easter Eggs, so that's a very heavy plus.

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Lots of great scenes tonight. Kara/Kate continuing their friendship, Lois and Iris on a mission, and Sara interacting with Mia was everything I wanted.

Superman vs Superman was excellent and Kevin Conroy was next to a Batsuit!!

Barry and Mia are grieving, so I get why they wanted to Pit Oliver, but they completely forgot to read the room. Guys, Sara loves Oliver as much as anyone but she was placed in the Pit herself and came back a monster so she knows what she's talking about. Yes, Con came in and brought back her soul, and Ra's eventually helped her overcome her need to kill, and things are ok now but that's not the point. The point is that Oliver saw what happened to her and Thea after the Pit and would never have wanted that for himself. Listen to Sara.

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I don't even know where to start because this ep was full of goodness for me.

I'm so happy Tom Welling put the flannel on again. I've missed that BDA. His unimpressed nonchalance with Lex was great. As was the punch. 

Kevin Conroy is my one true Batman. Too bad he was batshit crazy. I was hoping for more of a Batman Beyond situation, but it was still super cool to see him portray Bruce in the flesh. In a robotic suit. 

All the Supermen! Nice seeing Brandon Routh suit up again. I liked the Kate/Kara bonding. Jonah Hex. Mick and Snart! Constantine! Speaking of - what a monumentally terribad idea putting Oliver in the pit. 

I haven't had this much fun in the Flarrowverse in years. 

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This episode was 10x better than Pt.1. While we didnt see any Earths die this episode, this felt more like Crisis since we got to actually see doppelgangers and their stories got to be fleshed out a bit more than the blink and you miss it cameos. 

Seeing Smallville-Clark again was great, especially seeing him/Lois. Erica had a totally different feel to her as Lois than she did as Alura. I looked at her and instantly got Lois again...and she was way better here than as Alura. I did have to laugh that Clark gives up his powers to have a family....one way to get Tom back? Tell him that there is no chance that he has to suit up or do any CGI work. Didn't really understand how Lex zaps the Reporter-gang away and they never bother coming back to check the outcome.

Brandon being Clark again was also great. He is able to switch it up very well and just exuded Superman. His fight with E-38 Clark...while fun...was a CGI disaster. 

Mia is lucky that she has Sara on her side to help with this lazarus pit thing, something that could've gone a bit better had Oliver done the same with Laurel when she was gung-ho but those two are awfully similar lol.

Earth 99 (was it 99?) home of Old-man Bruce was......good. So glad Kevin gets to bring a Bruce Wayne to life, a much darker version at that. The fact that he killed and got a lusting for it...was creepy. And he even killed Superman! It isnt often DC lets you get to see Bruce Wayne as the villain (it is always Superman/Wonder Woman) so I was all for it. His death was lame though, another person gets electrocuted...this is becoming very common place for DC-tv heroes. 

Having Sara/Kate/Kara all paragons is....lazy. Especially having 2 E1 people and likely a 3rd/4th soon. Im just kind of over all the E1-ness going on.

Bringing in Mick for a laugh while nice...is kind of a waste of time. Especially one that isnt any different from the one that we know. 

This would've been the perfect time to have Laurel be around to help and give a pep talk to Kara, she knows what its like to lose an Earth. 

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I don't like Clark giving up his powers, however, the fact that he still runs the farm, is snarking on Lex, and has little girls, and oh, yeah, is still a big guy who can punch you in the face kind of balances it out. 

Brandon Routh's a great Superman. I underestimated him in his original role. But I'm still not a big fan of Kate Bosworth's Lois, and am fine with her being dead. And Jason exists! Good, let Clark have someone. 

Not surprised by Kate being the BatParagon. She and Kara have good chemistry. I believe their friendship. So does the fact that Kate has kryptonite that seems to not be affecting Kara mean something?

We got some great pairings here. All of the combos were fun, including Mick and Baby Jonathan.

I take back 99 percent of my negativity about Bitsie's Lois. But she was still mean to Oliver last year.

Lex still doesn't know that his Clark is Superman? What kind of billionaire genius are you?

Can I get Dean Cain Clark, Teri Hatcher Lois and Justin Hartley Oliver? 

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I know Barry and Mia just found out about the LP, but they had someone who was actually brought back with right there. Sara knows what that did to her body, mind and soul. They should've listened to her. Oliver would not have wanted to come back a soul less monster. Other than that I loved seeing Sara and Mia fighting side by side like Oliver and Sara used too. That's Green Arrow and Black Canary show I'd watch. 

Brandon looked great in the Superman suit. I loved seeing Ray and Clark working together. And Kara hitting on her cousin from another Earth. Also seeing dark Bruce that went on a Titan's like rampage and killed all his enemies including Superman. 

I didn't know how much I missed the BDA until I saw the flannel again. That hour went by so quickly. 

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The Monitor's all: "TIME IS RUNNING OUT. THE ANTI-MONITOR IS COMING. EVERY SECOND MEANS ANOTHER EARTH COULD BE LOST... but let's stop, and y'all can chase Lex around as he slaughters Supermen, and Kate, you get to kill your own cousin-pleganger, while the others can run around chasing after Oliver's soul."

Cool, cool.

Oddly, though, I still liked it better than yesterday. 

Edited by jmonique
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1 minute ago, Writing Wrongs said:

So why are there different versions of Superman/Clark as opposed to other Earth doppelgangers like we've seen before? And none of them thinks that's odd?

I was disappointed that it wasnt more of a WHOA thing and apart from Kara, brushed under the rug. Especially for E38 Clark. Still shows that Clark/Lois, no matter what they look like just have a connection. But as we know Smallville Kara looks different than E38 Kara so some Earths are just radically different for who they end up being. Smallville Aquaman is Hawk on Earth-9 after all.

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This seems like it was the Easter Egg episode and it was lot a of fun.  I think I liked Brandon Routh as Superman the most but Kara and Kate teaming up, Barry feeling bad and wanting to Lazarus Pit Oliver, Tom Welling back and the cameo from Erica Durrance, Jon Cryer eating up the role and the perfection of Sara mentoring Mia.

And Kevin Conroy!

After the downer of the first episode, this was a real upper.

I only have one real criticism and that's of Kate as the Paragon of Courage. I do settlement work with refugees and see people who have left their homes and families to travel through dangerous areas to safe lands, who have risked their lives to keep their children safe, and know of child soldiers and young girls kidnapped who have gone through horrendous things. Kate has courage but she doesn't come near to people in the real world. (Also I'd say that Oliver surviving the island, seeing his father, mother and best friend killed in front of him and coming back to fight has shown more courage than Kate at this point.)

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I've never been impressed by Tyler Hoechlin as Superman because he doesn't seem very imposing and now seeing him next to Routh and Welling, he looks like a skinny teenager.

I'm beginning to suspect that the Book of Destiny is going to serve as a "reset button" to bring back some of the destroyed Earths.  If so, I'll be disappointed if we don't see some lasting changes from this Crisis.

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ConroyBatman comes toward Kara and Kate

"You think you can defeat me??

I AM VENGEANCE!!  I AM THE NIGHT!!!  I AM ---"

Kate kicks him into the console, electrocuting him.

"You're no Batman I know."

21 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Jonah Hex

I thought that was him, especially when they cut open his lip.

21 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Mick and Snart!

I thought that was hilarious as well.  In an alternate earth (one where Mick has the Waverider all to himself), the Waverider's AI sounds like Leo Snart.

Edited by Twilight Man
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5 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

This seems like it was the Easter Egg episode and it was lot a of fun.  I think I liked Brandon Routh as Superman the most but Kara and Kate teaming up, Barry feeling bad and wanting to Lazarus Pit Oliver, Tom Welling back and the cameo from Erica Durrance, Jon Cryer eating up the role and the perfection of Sara mentoring Mia.

And Kevin Conroy!

After the downer of the first episode, this was a real upper.

I only have one real criticism and that's of Kate as the Paragon of Courage. I do settlement work with refugees and see people who have left their homes and families to travel through dangerous areas to safe lands, who have risked their lives to keep their children safe, and know of child soldiers and young girls kidnapped who have gone through horrendous things. Kate has courage but she doesn't come near to people in the real world. (Also I'd say that Oliver surviving the island, seeing his father, mother and best friend killed in front of him and coming back to fight has shown more courage than Kate at this point.)

I think Sara would fit the Paragon of Courage too. But she's destiny because she brings it up all the time. Lol. 

I think Oliver will be like the Paragon of Justice or something. 

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19 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I don't even know where to start because this ep was full of goodness for me.

I'm so happy Tom Welling put the flannel on again. I've missed that BDA. His unimpressed nonchalance with Lex was great. As was the punch. 

Kevin Conroy is my one true Batman. Too bad he was batshit crazy. I was hoping for more of a Batman Beyond situation, but it was still super cool to see him portray Bruce in the flesh. In a robotic suit. 

All the Supermen! Nice seeing Brandon Routh suit up again. I liked the Kate/Kara bonding. Jonah Hex. Mick and Snart! Constantine! Speaking of - what a monumentally terribad idea putting Oliver in the pit. 

I haven't had this much fun in the Flarrowverse in years. 

Aside from that horrendous hair (yes, I am that shallow), it was great to see Tom again-and in flannel! I just missed the red over blue/blue over red combo!

Kevin!Fucking!Conroy! Was the ONLY reason I was psyched for this. And while I got the chills hearing THE ONE AND TRUE AND BESTEST BATMAN, they just HAD TO make this Bruce/Bats a murdering whack job? Who was their inspiration? Ben ASSFleck?🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 Just so Kate could be the Paragon? I really thought I’d be getting Timm’s Batman Beyond Bats/Bruce. To say I’m peeved at this turn is putting it lightly. And I will happily sit at my table for one.

Other than that, I did enjoy this. And it took Lois long enough to knock Lex out!

And what FUCKING PURPOSE does Lex Fucking serve??!! I still don’t think Cryer is a good or believable Lex. He’s just a bald Ducky. There. I said it.

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30 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I loved seeing Lois/Iris and Kara/Kate team-up. 

More like Lois leading and iris just being there... Smh

30 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I liked seeing Bruce Wayne. His interactions with Kate were great. I also enjoyed seeing Luke and Kara interact.

Agreed... I'll take a grizzled and dark Bruce Wayne every day.. And I actually didn't mind that he killed superman in this world.. If only to see Kara get so incredulous.. Lena has been such a pain this season I've forgotten how self-righteous Kara can be... Glad kate kept the Kryptonite.. I'm sure Kara will be mad... Don't care tho

32 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Sara/Mia were unexpectedly interesting. Not exactly fun, but interesting. Mia may be grieving her father, but she just got a lesson in how she WASN'T prepared to raise her father from the dead. 

This I kinda disagree.. Its pretty much what its always been with Mia.. Bossy attitude with people way more qualified than her... And her ignoring the advice of ppl who know better... Even her just telling Earth whatever Jonah Hex that she's using the pit..  

I did enjoy Luke... 

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I enjoy the little appearances and nods but right now it’s feeling more like a giant gimmick than a cohesive story. 

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"Paragon" is joining "Crisis" on my list of Words That Need A Rest.  

Loved Snart/Rory and Brandon's Superman (and Kara/Lois being all starry eyed), and the Awesome Smallville Clark/Lois.  And Jon Cryer is a great Lex.

Was less impressed with Kevin Conroy- love his work, but not on this one.  But I also blame his suit, which damn, was knocking his head way off his alignment.  It could not have been fun for him, given that he makes his living as a Voice Over Artist.  

The LazOllie Plotline was pretty weak, I thought.  I find the Lazarus Pit a cheap out for this plot line, and his character.  Took away the sting of his death.

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So I thought the Supermen/Lois/Iris/KEVIN CONROY parts were AMAZING!

OMG - not only was Brandon Routh his Superman Returns self, he was Kingdom Come AND they let him have Superman III too, hahaha "not the first time I've fought myself before", lol.  And awwww Jason is still alive!!

This made me realize how much I missed Brandon Routh's Superman (even though I still LOVE Henry Cavill's and hope he comes back as Superman in the DCEU).  His VOICE ya'll... that voice was just so good and his mannerisms are so Christopher Reeve!! Sigh.  His vest, shirt and pants look nearly identical to what he wore in Superman Returns too - the tie is very close too.  They really pulled from that same outfit.  The vest and pants look like they could be the exact same ones.

And I am so happy they let Tom Welling's (Beef Wellington, lol) Clark and Lois live in peace with daughters!!! Awwwww!  And he gave up his powers for her!  Awwww - that's Superman II cool!!! Loved seeing Tom and Erica Durance.  I didn't realize she also played Kara's mom, lol.  Wow.

But honestly - Brandon Routh's Superman just beats all for me (except Henry)... not his same suit from Superman Returns but ughhhhhhh that voice.  I love how he gives Ray an upbeat peppy voice and his Clark/Superman's voice is so deep.  "I forgot how warm you are."... le sigh.  

The CGI fight could have been better.

Loved Lois and & Iris' banter, lol.  That was cute - I'm gonna like their friendship.  Two intrepid reporters!! 

Kevin Conroy's voice made me SOOOOOO happy.  I got goosebumps all over.  They played the music and everything.  But I hated that they merged his Batman with DCEU Batman and killed off DCEU Superman in another alternate reality.  All to make Kate the Paragon?

Seeing the newspaper with the article that Cavill's Clark wrote in BvS was cool though.  They completely had this Earth jump off from Batfleck almost killing Supes.  In this one apparently he did kill him.  So - my only confusion was - I thought this Batman was Kate's Batman from her Earth?  Did I hear that wrong?

Hearing KC's voice in live action was amazing though.

So Barry doesn't get to be a Paragon, but he's supposed to die?  *side eye* Plus Barry doesn't seem to have a real purpose this time other than literally wait around for The Monitor to tell him when he dies.  

Mick was hilarious reading his smut novel to Jonathan, lol.

The Anti-Monitor is our universe's version of the Night King, you can't convince me otherwise.

Although about Crisis...

Black Lightning:

 

Now I know that this will all be reversed, because everyone but Jefferson just got wiped from existence on Black Lightning.

Edited by phoenics
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I need them to give me a little more info on the Monitor. How long has he been fighting the Anti-Monitor? When did he first find out about the antimatter wave that would destroy all universes? Why did he only pick up Oliver to help prepare weapons and things they would need? Instead he just told Barry "You're going to die, lol" and nothing useful before peacing out. He killed a whole bunch of superheroes to find out who was "worthy" even though they could have been useful to help find Paragons later on or something. But he just now figured out there are Paragons and he needs them to win? Dude is D-U-M DUMB and seems to have wasted a lot of time (he's STILL wasting a lot of time).

I did like this episode though, though I agree there's a difference between having a few clever easter eggs and having as many references as possible just for the sake of references... and that difference is "Is there a plot to hold all these things together?" 

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Huge improvement over the first episode - where I had fun, yes, but which felt really disjointed. 

Less so here. The decision to move everyone into three separate plots kept the plots fairly focused. Oh, sure, it didn't make all that much sense for the Monitor to let everyone just run around doing whatever while UNIVERSES WERE GETTING EATEN UP and sure, it would have been a lot faster for the Monitor to just say, Kate, you're one of the leads of these shows which makes you the Paragon of Courage yes this doesn't make much sense but neither does the rest of the plot so let's just roll with it, shall we, but then again, had the episode done that, we would have missed out on Kevin Conroy.

Otherwise: 

1. Music callbacks! I was a bit disappointed that we didn't hear SOMEBODY SAVE ME but otherwise we got SUPERMAN MUSIC and some Batman music and a call back to the Lazarus Pits/Nanda Parbat music which ok, didn't make much sense since that Pit wasn't in Nanda Parbat but let's not be picky. That was fun. 

I don't want to think about how much money they had to pay John Williams for that. 

2. Snart as the voice of Gideon! Hee!

3. All of the Clark Kents just going, ok, this Lex looks nothing like the Lex Luthors I've known, but ok then. Heh.

4. "Still stronger." Heh.

5. Brandon Routh as Superman! Superman vs. Superman fight! Superman telling Ray Palmer that no, he's not gluten intolerant!

6. Smallville wrap-up - even if it meant that we didn't get to see all three Supermans/Clark Kents together on screen.

7. Rory writing questionable fiction in every universe.

8. Kevin Conroy!  BEING TERRIBLE AT LANDSCAPING. HA HA HA.

9. The Kate/Kara team-up. I am here for this.

10. The Lois/Iris team-up. I am also here for this.

11. The Monitor's whole Paragon thing. I mean, yes, I get it - you need to explain just why the leads of the CW Arrowverse shows are getting to be the focus here instead of - just saying - Michael Keaton's Batman - but it's still ridiculous. No wonder that baby started to cry.

12. Just days (in show time) after Diggle yells at Lyla for keeping secrets from him, Lyla....decides not to tell him that Oliver is dead?

On that note, did Team Crisis bother to tell anyone else that Oliver is dead? I know the Monitor has been spending this season of Arrow teleporting everyone around, but they still have working cell phones and email accounts, right? Shouldn't at least Team Flash and Team Arrow get a heads up about this? Or did Barry just figure that Oliver wouldn't be dead long enough to make that worth the effort?

13. I realize they completely blew the budget for the episode on the Superman vs. Superman bit, but reusing footage from Legends of Tomorrow, however briefly, is a yet another budget low for this show, as was returning to the Flash set for the final Lyla/Anti-Monitor encounter.

14. Love that we spent all that time on THE LAZARUS PITS ARE EVIL THE LAZARUS PITS WILL STEAL YOUR SOUL THE LAZARUS PITS WILL GIVE YOU BLOOD LUST only to have everyone decide, yeah, let's throw Oliver into a Lazarus Pit. Without even checking to see if the Lazarus Pits work the same on other Earths.

15. I may have missed something here, but Oliver died on Earth-1, correct? So why were they trying to restore his soul on the other Earth, which probably has an alternative Hell, instead of trying to bring his body back to Earth-1 and THEN trying to get his soul back from the Earth-1 Hell?

16. No Mary! A Batwoman episode with no Mary! AUUGH!

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14 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Was less impressed with Kevin Conroy- love his work, but not on this one.  But I also blame his suit, which damn, was knocking his head way off his alignment.  It could not have been fun for him, given that he makes his living as a Voice Over Artist.  

Kevin actually had a blast and had fun doing this. At least, that’s what he’s said on social media.

And while he’s done voice over work for over two decades, he’s also a good actor in front of the camera. And a great singer.

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I think we can all agree, this was not a Batwoman episode. This was the Legends episode, but they had to slot it in somewhere so they stole Batwomans slot. (Granted Batwoman doesn't have much cast yet to pad out a crossover episode by herself yet so that is understandable).

But with Sara and Roy and Rory and Snart and Constantine and the Waverider.... not to mention cracking the 4th wall; this was the Legends Crossover we didn't get last time. 

Everything else was just great all around and I can't wait to see what tomorrow brings, aside from a cliffhanger to last the XMas break. 

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8 minutes ago, quarks said:

On that note, did Team Crisis bother to tell anyone else that Oliver is dead? I know the Monitor has been spending this season of Arrow teleporting everyone around, but they still have working cell phones and email accounts, right? Shouldn't at least Team Flash and Team Arrow get a heads up about this? Or did Barry just figure that Oliver wouldn't be dead long enough to make that worth the effort?

Especially to tell his wife! I know she's not on the show, but maybe just mention her? That was the last thing Oliver told Mia to do!

1 hour ago, Writing Wrongs said:

So why are there different versions of Superman/Clark as opposed to other Earth doppelgangers like we've seen before? And none of them thinks that's odd?

Is it because in alternate Krypton a different baby was chosen to be saved, so that is who the Kents found and raised to eventually be Superman? I don't remember the origin of why Clark was, but that would sort of make sense as to why they are physically different.

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12 minutes ago, quarks said:

16. No Mary! A Batwoman episode with no Mary! AUUGH!

Same pattern they did with CP's Iris for years.  I'm not surprised.... at all.  The shows have been utterly predictable that way. 😞

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4 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

That was the only Lazarus Pit they could find.

No, I got that part. What I didn't get was why, once his body had been restored by the one remaining Lazarus Pit on the other Earth, they didn't jump back to Earth 1 and try to restore his soul on Earth-1?

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Also - I like Tyler's Superman and Bitsie's Lois - but man... this made me grieve we couldn't get a Superman tv show with Brandon Routh.  He put Tyler to shame - sorry not sorry.  Did you see he even did flying like he did in the Superman Returns movie?  He's a swimmer, so his flying movements are like he's flying through water... he's soooo good.

Ugh.

I didn't expect to fangirl this hard, lol.

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4 minutes ago, quarks said:

No, I got that part. What I didn't get was why, once his body had been restored by the one remaining Lazarus Pit on the other Earth, they didn't jump back to Earth 1 and try to restore his soul on Earth-1?

That should be Con's real issue.

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1 minute ago, scarynikki12 said:

That should be Con's real issue.

Well, his real issue is

Spoiler

the PTB want to bring in Lucifer

, but I feel the setup for this could and should have made more sense.

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I'm not really sure why they couldn't go back in time on Earth 1 to use the LP, when they went back in time on another Earth to use it. 

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1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

 (I assume that's his original suit, or something close to it).

It certainly is not. When Brandon Routh played Superman, his suit was a regular Superman suit, with red and yellow logo and clear 'S'. His logo in this show was a stylized 'S' in red and black.

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*sigh* Okay, so there's a lot to process, what with Kate being bumped up to Paragon status, the heroes cheating and finding a Lazarus Pit on another Earth to use on Ollie, and Kevin Conroy making his live-action debut as a Batman, but one that's broken inside and out and nowhere near the Kingdom Come version. But I got a bigger complaint.

A lot of us spent ten years watching Smallville. TEN. That's a decade. We saw the Big Dumb Alien Boy grow up to become a Big Dumb Alien Man. And let's be honest, five seasons would have been more than enough for the series. At the end of those ten years, Clark Kent, the super mope, becomes Superman . . . and in less than a decade after that, he gave up his powers. Of course he fucking did.

Lesson learned: you can't get anything positive from Smallville. Clark is a dumbass, that Lois is the absolute worst Lois, the writers were making up shit up as they went along (same as Gotham, but at least those guys embraced the batshit crazy), and the one consistently good actress on the show is now a prison for her part in a motherfucking sex slave ring. Damn it, Allison.

I'm also guessing Earth-SV (or whatever the designation was) makes people stupid. Lex Luthor has the Book of Destiny, he could probably end Clark then and there, but he breaks out the Kryptonite. And, lucky for Clark, he gave up his powers. Also, lucky that he can throw a punch (RIP BoKent). I'm also a bit disappointed they didn't have Clark eat the Kryptonite, which harkens back to Neal Adams' run with the character. But then we had Keving Friggin' Conroy reading lines straight from The Dark Knight Returns, so I guess it evens out.

Damn, Earth-99 Bruce was a disappointment. Like I said, this Batman was broken everywhere. A far cry from Kingdom Come, which is a shame. Conroy's voice work as Batman puts him shoulder-to-shoulder with the legends that played that role. But this Batman broke bad and got himself killed. And then Monitor's all, "Oh, did I mention? You're a Paragon, Kate!" And I get what will be the huge backlash. I have little beef with Ruby Rose, she's doing a good job with the role even though she's overshadowed by the villain and the cute stepsister . . . but we've only seen her in eight episodes and the one bit from "Elseworlds" last year. I guess it makes sense to put her on the same level as Kara,seeing out Ruby and Melissa mesh well together . . . and they'll probably going to be a fight tomorrow night. It just feels like too much too soon.

When do I start seeing the "Superman Returns Reconsidered" articles? Brandon Routh did a great job as what is basically the "classic" Superman of Earth-2 (in a continuity where Infinite Crisis never happened) with the Alex Ross-designed chest emblem. We got a Superman-on-Superman battle that didn't rack up collateral damage like the DCEU Supes. And Lex gets taken out by Lois, which was funny in itself. Bonus: reference to Superman III. I dare them to reference The Quest For Peace.

"We have to bring back my dad!" "Mia, listen to your Auntie Sara. You do not want that. He won't come back the same." "But you did!" "Two things. One: I was awesome enough to recover. Two: my sister was an idiot for thinking of resurrecting me. I mean, I've found a niche and everything, but Laurel was stupid."

Same-But-Different versions of Mick Rory and Jonah Hex? Hey, why not??? Bringing in another Waverider seems like a horrible idea, but it's worked okay . . . and the AI is based off Snart! And it's sarcastic AF!

Onto Part Three. I gotta post about the more-painful-than-usual Black Lightning episode tying Jefferson into COIE.

ETA: "Consistently good actress" wasn't meant as a slam on Annette O'Toole or John Glover. I was just thinking Allison Mack was on the cast longer than both of them. I don't think we'll be getting Annette . . . and since Earth-96 might be the old-school Superman move franchise, she would be in play as Martha Kent and the O.G. Lana Lang. That's what she was labeled in the Honest Trailer for the made-for-TV It miniseries.

Edited by Lantern7
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I liked seeing Tom Welling and Erica Durance. Made me nostalgic. I don't like that any Superman would give up his powers and stop saving people though.

I'm also now feeling that Tyler Hoechlin isn't a big enough guy to be a fully authoritative/imposing Superman. Next to both Welling and Routh you can really see it.

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I did like Sara eulogizing Oliver, then the camera cutting to Kate who has a look on her face that basically says "yeah, I didn't really know the guy."

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33 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I liked seeing Tom Welling and Erica Durance. Made me nostalgic. I don't like that any Superman would give up his powers and stop saving people though.

I'm also now feeling that Tyler Hoechlin isn't a big enough guy to be a fully authoritative/imposing Superman. Next to both Welling and Routh you can really see it.

Completely agree.  All this did was make me wish they'd scrap the upcoming Superman/Lois show and do one with Brandon instead.  He embodies Clark and Superman SO WELL.  I still can't get over the different voices he uses for Superman vs Ray Palmer.

Tyler is like a cute Superman - but BR could go toe to toe with HC's Superman.  Tyler's Superman looks like GG's Wonder Woman would wipe the floor with him.

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I couldn't help but think...'you know who could help with this whole getting Oliver his soul back thing...now that Constantine is tapped out.....

The Winchesters.

Yes.  I said it.  I'm not sorry.

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So, Kara tells Kate it's not powers that make you a hero. That's a change from when she told James Olsen he couldn't be a hero because he didn't have powers. I wonder if Kara ever apologized to James (and 99% of the DEO) for that ludicrous statement.

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I love that everyone is just sick to death of The Monitor and his bullshit, especially Barry and Kara, who are just not having it with this guy anymore. You know Mono, I dont mean to tell you how to do your job as a cosmic being of great multiverse importance, but if your in such a hurry, maybe you could just, like, tell people to do stuff instead of being all vague and setting everyone up on ridiculous side quests to prove points to them? While letting tons of people die just to run some kind of test? Just an idea. 

Anyway, as fanservice-y as this episode was, I loved it all the same. As someone who grew up on Smallville (for better and for worse) it was a blast seeing Clark in all of his flannel glory, as well as Lois! And while I dont really see that Clark giving up his powers and stopping saving people, it was fun to see him, including him punching the crap out of Lex, even without powers! "Still stronger." His part seemed kind of random but fun, but maybe it will tie into the story later? And seeing Brandon getting to play Superman again was a real treat, including a Superman 3 reference! 

And now we get to Kevin Fucking Conroy as Old Man Batman! Who also has a Dark Luke as his sidekick! It sucks that we only get him for one episode, but I kind of love that he was apparently the Frank Miller style super dark and edgy Batman, who is also apparently a crazy space racist like the Bruce in Batman V Superman. Oh Old Bat, if only you knew that Clark's name was Martha, this could have all been worked out!

It was hilarious how Kara seemed to be checking Dark Luke out, and Kate was just like "nope, gonna nip that in the bud right now." Kara and Kate are a fun pair, and it was sweet when Kara gave Kate a picture of her and a non evil and crazy Alice/Beth, but they seem to be going REALLY hard on Kate, considering she just started, both in and out of universe. And how is Mary doing?!? 

Its really sweet how heartbroken Barry is about Oliver's death (and we got a Barry/Iris hug! At last!) and him wanting to save Oliver is understandable, as is Mia wanting to save her dad (proving, yet again, that Mia is very much her fathers daughter) no matter what, but...come on, Lazarus Pit?! Have you we learned that we shouldn't be fucking with those things by now?! Sara warned them, but I guess she decided to help because, for one, she can maybe keep non soul Oliver from killing them or making things worse, and possibly because, as she said, she misses Ollie. Poor Oliver, he cant even DIE without getting dragged into some bullshit. Fun seeing Constantine pop up, and while brief, he had some fun back and fourth with Barry and Mia, which must be a real trip for them still, especially Mia. "Oh yeah Mia, not only is time travel a thing, but also aliens? And magic?"

Hi some other version of Jonah! And we get another Mick, who programmed a snarky Snart AI, because of course he did! Can we get a Snart in person, pretty please?!

Oh yeah Lyla, after all of your fights about being honest with each other, Diggle will be thrilled to find out you hid the fact that his best friend is dead from him! Especially when he finds out he is now a soulless abomination! And now...Anti-Monitor!

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I liked this a lot better than part 1, mainly because they slowed down and explained what people were doing. Also because the conflicts were character driven rather than energy waves and cgi monster armies. 

Sara's line about the Legends skipping the crossover was offputting. Are you saying that Nate and E1 Mick and Ava and Gary and the rest wouldn't jump to help?

Shouldn't Mia tell William their dad is dead?

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Why was Earth-99 Luke lounging around Wayne Manor dressed like a gigolo?  Is that Bruce into guys?

I get why they did it, but it was a little jarring having Iris and Constantine just pop up.   It felt like coming in during the middle of a scene.  

 Where was the rest of Team Supergirl?  Especially J'onn who was specifically called out by the Monitor.  Oh right, you'd have to pay extra for them.

 So Lex's big role in Crisis was to...lead the heroes to something they were already looking for?  Okay then.   

 Nice touch with Snart being the Waverider's AI.  You just know that's really Snart's brain and there's some zany Legends story about how he died and was merged with the Waverider.

 Earth-99 Bruce was definitely more Justice Lords and less Batman Beyond.

 It looks like the Anti Monitor lives in Star Labs.   I guess this is another mess they've created.

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It has to be said, there aren't too many people that Melissa Benoist can't have chemistry with.  I'm a fan of her and Kate as "besties".  And we're definitely gonna get a moment where Kara tells Kate to keep the kryptonite, and that she and Alex are the backup plan if Kara ever goes evil.

Mick's a popular writer on every Earth.  I love that they've done it, and his writing has the approval of a Darhk, Barry, Barry's daughter, and Superman's son.  Would you really need anymore validation?  He better give a copy of his book to Clark and Lois.

The Smallville scene was pure fanservice, and perfect.  The only bad thing is that I would have liked Clark to say that even without him "The world's in good hands", referencing the Smallville Justice League.

Cryer continues to be the perfect Lex.  And Routh is still a perfect Superman.

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3 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Lex still doesn't know that his Clark is Superman? What kind of billionaire genius are you?

The same kind as Lena, apparently (which, BTW, makes him mocking Lena on Supergirl last season for not knowing Supergirl's identity really funny.)

Okay, you can just give me all the Supermen. Brandon Routh was superb - loved every second with him. I don't watch Legends, so my only Ray exposure has been in crossovers, but when Ray and Superman were in the same scene together near the end, the contrast was really impressive. And with the Tom Welling Clark, I loved that, right when Lex showed up and they cut to commercial, Clark gave him this LOOK where you just knew he was gonna be all #NotMy Lex.

Oh, and it tickled me that Lois was totally into Superman on every Earth. Between Elseworlds and now Crisis, Bitsie Tulloch has definitely sold me on her Lois. Loved her knocking Lex out, though I wish Iris had gotten to do more.

So Kevin Conroy was Batffleck if he never found out the Superman's mom had the same name as his? Bummer that his live-action Batman debut was an evil one, but I was 100% living for Kara and Kate teaming up. The scene between them near the end was especially nice.

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42 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 It looks like the Anti Monitor lives in Star Labs.   I guess this is another mess they've created.

The Anti Monitor was trapped somewhere in Central City -- Nash was down in some tunnel digging to find him and do something (it was never really clear what he was doing)... The Flash team had zero to do with what Nash was doing, so it's not on them.

Nash isn't really part of the Flash Team, tbh.

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50 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I love that everyone is just sick to death of The Monitor and his bullshit, especially Barry and Kara, who are just not having it with this guy anymore. You know Mono, I dont mean to tell you how to do your job as a cosmic being of great multiverse importance, but if your in such a hurry, maybe you could just, like, tell people to do stuff instead of being all vague and setting everyone up on ridiculous side quests to prove points to them? While letting tons of people die just to run some kind of test? Just an idea. 

It's a convention of the genre and I accept it.  It's kind of like Doctor Strange in the Avengers movies telling Tony Stark that if he tells him how it all unfolds, it won't happen like it is supposed to.  

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19 minutes ago, angora said:

So Kevin Conroy was Batffleck if he never found out the Superman's mom had the same name as his? Bummer that his live-action Batman debut was an evil one, but I was 100% living for Kara and Kate teaming up. The scene between them near the end was especially nice.

I had the same thought and had a good cackle.

But the Kara/Kate team up has another purpose.  Now that Oliver will be leaving the Arrowverse (maybe he doesn't die in the end, but gets a happily ever after in Nirvana somewhere with his family?), Barry loses his "bro".  So they've got to fill that hole somehow, even though Barry and Kara are good friends too.

I just had a sad moment - if Oliver really dies then no more bro talks with Oliver and Barry.

😞

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Jon Cryer should be grateful they couldn't persuade Michael Rosenbaum to appear, because all we'd have to see is one MINUTE of his Lex to see how badly he wipes the floor with Cryer's weaselly one.

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T That ain’t canon. Look, once a series has an official ending. That’s the end. Unless they reboot that shit which never has the same quality as the original airing.  SV ended 8 years ago. It was on the air for 10 years. Clark use to blame himself for Trump becoming President. Fellow SV fans will get the joke. In the series finale, Clark told Lex, he[Clark] will always be there to stop him. That’s where that damn show ended. 5/13/11. ✌️ Tom & Erica always had amazing chemistry, so seeing them together again will always be a treat. SV would always say fuck biology and it’s funny that it appears here. The whole powers thing. Jor-El use to do shit that just wasn’t scientifically possible. Like how Clark’s powers would come and go. I know gold k takes them away forever but SV was on something else. 

Edited by Simba122504 · Reason: Changed some words.
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Lady Calypso

This is a reminder for everyone to Be Civil and stay on topic. It's getting a bit heated in here so let's dial it back and get back to the discussion of this particular episode. Thanks!

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