S04.E07: The Dinner and the Date

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Deja pushes the boundaries of Randall and Beth's trust. Jack and Rebecca invite Randall's new teacher over for dinner.

Promo:

Original air date: 11/5/19

[ShadowFacts]

How many times did I cringe in this episode?   So much awkwardness.  And maybe the first time I disliked Beth, she lost her cool and was so hostile to her guests.  But by the end I was touched by young Randall's recitation of the poem, and little sweet Deja with her mom and grandmother. 

[CleoCaesar]

I'm so relieved all my burning curiosity about Malik and Deja's torrid high school love affair was addressed so thoroughly, in such relentless nonstop painstaking detail, for almost 40 minutes. I can sleep easy tonight.

[BuckeyeLou]

I loved Beth in this episode!  Her going into the pantry & getting her bottle of wine & chugging it straight from the bottle, LOL.  Malik's Mom was pushing Beth's buttons.  I liked how they contrasted Randall's dinner as a kid with his teacher & his dinner with Malik's parents.  The awkwardness was real in both situations.  And Beth and her "Open toed-shoes, open mind" lol.

[ams1001]

I rarely drink and I hate wine but they were making me want to chug some of Beth's stash, too.

[Dani-Ellie]

“Don’t give them a ship name” is one of the greatest things that has ever come out of Beth’s mouth. 

[ams1001]

I love Annie.

"We say grace, too."

"No we don't..."

(paraphrased, of course)

[Jax7917]

They’re beating a dead horse with Jack’s storylines . I think he was charming in the beginning because his shtick was new and he’s a sweet guy , but it seems like every episode he’s humorless and jealous of someone else Or down on himself about something  . Then lo and behold the inevitable speech . He’s just such a Debbie downer at all times . 
 

I missed Kevin tonight . I don’t mind Randall but I dong enjoy full episodes about him . 

[Quickbeam]

I could not help myself, I loved smart mouth Kevin. Comic relief from an otherwise twitchy earnest episode. 

[TheLotusFlower]

35 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

How many times did I cringe in this episode?   So much awkwardness.  And maybe the first time I disliked Beth, she lost her cool and was so hostile to her guests.  But by the end I was touched by young Randall's recitation of the poem, and little sweet Deja with her mom and grandmother. 

Seriously?  I absolutely loved Beth in this episode.  Malik's mother completely disrespected Beth from the moment she got there.  First by talking about Deja as if she was some stray that Beth and Randall took in off the street, trying to blame the whole skipping school thing on Deja, and then with her ignorant passive aggressive comment during grace.  I didn't view Beth as hostile at all.  Was she supposed to slap on a fake smile and pretend everything was fine while being disrespected in her own home?  Malik's mother got exactly what she deserved.

[LaJefaza]

The title of this episode should have been 'Shots Fired'.

I had no idea I had anything close to affection for Deja until Malik's mom called her 'that fast lil girl'. Ma'am...ma'am....throwing rocks from the porch of your glass house is an UNWISE DECISION.

Deja 'has baggage'? I'm sorry, is her baggage (which was in no way caused by her) any heavier than the literal bundle of joy your baby-faced teenage son walked into the house with? I can just tell she's the type of mom to blame everything on the 'fast girls' who 'seduce' her son. She walked into the Pearsons' house and was rude from the word go. I mean, she even managed to PRAY rudely? Ma'am...

When Beth gathered her with the 'raising your child's child' comment I immediately pictured the 'fight mode activated' meme. How quickly Beth went from 'open toe shoes, open mind' to 'open toes straight up your behind'. Jump out her spirit indeed..,I personally love Mama Bear Beth.

Edited November 6, 2019 by LaJefaza

[memememe76]

Loved the episode. The scene with the teacher and the wife in their apartment is an example of where This Is Us tries to give us a peak into even the smallest characters’ perspectives.

Loved the poem. And I am on Team Beth.

I live in West Coast Canada, but I am pretty sure I have seen a Rita’s in Chicago and NYC too, although I have never tried it. Not just a Philly thing. 
 

Is that a real cheesesteak place? I went to Gino and the other one across the street.

[topanga]

I enjoyed the tour through Philadelphia. I lived there for a while in the ‘90s, and yes, Max’s cheesesteaks are the best. And Boathouse Row (the houses on the river with the lights) still takes my breath away. 

Team Beth all the way! Those were two awkward dinners.

But Annie was the MVP of the episode .

ETA: Travel guides rave about Gino’s cheesesteaks. But no one who lives in Philly likes them or gets their steaks from there.  

Edited November 6, 2019 by topanga

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, LaJefaza said:

The title of this episode should have been 'Shots Fired'.

I had no idea I had anything close to affection for Deja until Malik's mom called her 'that fast lil girl'. Ma'am...ma'am....throwing rocks from the porch of your glass house is an UNWISE DECISION.

Deja 'has baggage'? I'm sorry, is her baggage (which was in now way caused by her) any heavier than the literal bundle of joy your baby-faced teenage son walked into the house with? I can just tell she's the type of mom to blame everything on the 'fast girls' who 'seduce' her son. She walked into the Pearsons' house and was rude from the word go. I mean, she even managed to PRAY rudely? Ma'am...

When Beth gathered her with the 'raising your child's child' comment I immediately pictured the 'fight mode activated' meme. How quickly Beth went from 'open toe shoes, open mind' to 'open toes straight up your behind'. Jump out her spirit indeed...

I agree with everything you said! I was willing to give Malik’s Mom the benefit of the doubt until she let “fast lil girl” come out of her mouth. That’s some misogynistic crap right there. And “baggage”- HER son made baggage for the next 21years. No. Malik’s Dad was much more reasonable and a better person it seems like. 

[shouldbedancing]

Randall and Beth are way too soft.. especially for all their big talk. Oh boy. It makes perfect sense for Deja not to date that boy so just stick to it.

Edited November 6, 2019 by shouldbedancing

[ams1001]

4 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

I live in West Coast Canada, but I am pretty sure I have seen a Rita’s in Chicago and NYC too, although I have never tried it. Not just a Philly thing. 

Rita's was founded in Bensalem (in Bucks County, about half an hour from Philly; I lived near Bensalem when I worked in Philly a million years ago.) Wikipedia says they are in 30 states and DC now. (I can think of two or three within a reasonable drive from me here in NJ.)

[Armchair Critic]

9 minutes ago, LaJefaza said:

I had no idea I had anything close to affection for Deja until Malik's mom called her 'that fast lil girl'.

That's funny because it was the same for me. I have never really warmed up to Deja. But when Malik's mom called her that I wanted to defend Deja.

[Lady Calypso]

I didn't mind the episode, in general. It had some solid moments and I appreciate that they allowed both the Jack and Randall stuff to get extremely awkward....because it felt like real life....well, almost. If you ignore parts of the dialogue that was being spoken.

Nobody besides the kids and maybe Malik's father came out looking good during that dinner. Beth, Malik's mother, and Randall were on different levels of cringe. Malik's mother was just plain awful for going into the Pearson home and deciding to judge their daughter, despite the fact that she already has a granddaughter. So I did not mind Beth playing that card at all. What Beth was doing was right; she needed to protect her daughter from a stranger who was judging her in her home. Beth had every right to stand up for Deja. 

But I can't say that Beth took the high road; she didn't need to, of course, but her attitude was also uncomfortable to watch. Similarly to Randall vs Malik's father. Yes, Malik's father came in and was a bit condescending with the quip about Randall's lavish lifestyle. But Randall also, even subconsciously, flaunted his wealth and power when he was talking about the garage.

I think my biggest issue is that we always have episodes about Randall and his family, and I also am not invested in the teen romance, even if I like Malik and I like Deja. And I thought the Malik/Deja day date was pretty sweet. I liked him making her a regular at that restaurant. And the Randall family stuff is miles better than last season's stuff. But I'm not really invested as I could be. 

The only aspect of the Jack plot that I liked was that we got to see a rare, nasty side to Jack. Jealousy does not suit him, but it does kind of show where the kids can get their nasty side from. I was feeling bad for Randall's teacher and his wife. Jack only invited him so he could flaunt himself and try to "win" Randall back to his side, which I'm glad Rebecca pointed out. Jack made the dinner awkward and it was probably a bad idea for Randall's teacher to ever accept that sort of invitation. 

Kevin's always my favourite, so at least we got a small dose of Kid Kevin. The actor has grown up so much, even over the last year. 

[Blakeston]

When Deja confronted Malik about her misgivings when he reached for her hand, it took me out of the episode completely. What kind of 14-year-old talks like that to a boy who gives her "butterflies?"

I get that Deja had to grow up fast, and I can see her having those feelings. But revealing her vulnerabilities in such a perfectly articulated way, to the boy she likes, at the moment she becomes overwhelmed?

The writers are lucky that Lyric Ross is such a terrific actress, because some of the dialogue they give her can't be easy to pull off.

[slasherboy]

56 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

They're beating a dead horse with Jack, but it seems like every episode he’s humorless and jealous of someone else Or down on himself about something  . He’s just such a Debbie downer at all times . 
 

That could be because he's dead.

36 minutes ago, TheLotusFlower said:

First by talking about Deja as if she was some stray that Beth and Randall took in off the street

Well, they kinda did.

[txhorns79]

28 minutes ago, shouldbedancing said:

Randall and Beth are way too soft.. especially for all their big talk. Oh boy. It makes perfect sense for Deja not to date that boy so just stick to it.

A thousand times this.  Malik is a 16 year old with a baby.  Deja is 14.  In no way is Deja emotionally ready to date Malik, or deal with the issues he brings to the table.  I understand that teenagers don't necessarily see that and may connive to see each other regardless of what their parents say, but Beth and Randall really should have stuck to their guns.  

[memememe76]

Beth and Randall were granted the privilege to foster Déjà. They did not just pick her from the side of an alley.

[zoey1996]

Rita's!  So good!

I was a bit put off by some of Beth & Malik's mom's exchanges, but I'd have my back up too with the 'tude emanating from his mom.

[chocolatine]

Wouldn't Deja's school have called Beth and Randall in the morning, when she didn't show up to class? They would have inundated her with calls and/or located her by tracking her phone, she wouldn't just have been able to spend the day exploring Philly with Malik.

Oh, and I thought the teacher's system of classifying books by publication year was pretentious. Good for him if he can memorize the publication year for all of his books, but what's the point?

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Wouldn't Deja's school have called Beth and Randall in the morning, when she didn't show up to class? They would have inundated her with calls and/or located her by tracking her phone, she wouldn't just have been able to spend the day exploring Philly with Malik

I don't know how Deja's high school works, but in my Canadian high school, the phone calls to parents weren't made until the end of the day, when they could deduce which periods that the student didn't attend.

[KaveDweller]

38 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

When Deja confronted Malik about her misgivings when he reached for her hand, it took me out of the episode completely. What kind of 14-year-old talks like that to a boy who gives her "butterflies?"

She's becoming a Pearson.

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't know how Deja's high school works, but in my Canadian high school, the phone calls to parents weren't made until the end of the day, when they could deduce which periods that the student didn't attend.

In my New Jersey high school, they called early to ask if the parents if the student was supposed to be there or if the parents had forgotten to call them in sick. Then they made the "excused absence" list for teachers to check against for the rest of the day. 

That was a couple decades ago though.

[Misslindsey]

1 hour ago, Star Gazer said:

Not to mention I’m sadly not invested in daja and her teenage romance. I have my guilty pleasures of teen dramas, this is us isn’t that. That’s just me. Maybe others differ but I’m here for adult drama not watching teens profess their love.

This. I am not invested in Deja or the teen romance either. I do not dislike Deja, but I am kind of bored with the character. They seem to give Deja a fair amount of storylines, words of wisdom, or her own speeches. I find Tess a more interesting character. I would rather see more of the adults than a teen romance. I guess I get my teen romance fix from cheesy teen dramas, so I do not need it here.

[ShortyMac]

2 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

She's becoming a Pearson.

In my New Jersey high school, they called early to ask if the parents if the student was supposed to be there or if the parents had forgotten to call them in sick. Then they made the "excused absence" list for teachers to check against for the rest of the day. 

That was a couple decades ago though.

My high school took official attendance through third period; after that, they would call any parents/guardians necessary. There was a couple instances where my mom forgot to call me in sick. lol So, I definitely would not have gotten away with skipping school like that.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, LaJefaza said:

The title of this episode should have been 'Shots Fired'.

I had no idea I had anything close to affection for Deja until Malik's mom called her 'that fast lil girl'. Ma'am...ma'am....throwing rocks from the porch of your glass house is an UNWISE DECISION.

Deja 'has baggage'? I'm sorry, is her baggage (which was in no way caused by her) any heavier than the literal bundle of joy your baby-faced teenage son walked into the house with? I can just tell she's the type of mom to blame everything on the 'fast girls' who 'seduce' her son. She walked into the Pearsons' house and was rude from the word go. I mean, she even managed to PRAY rudely? Ma'am...

When Beth gathered her with the 'raising your child's child' comment I immediately pictured the 'fight mode activated' meme. How quickly Beth went from 'open toe shoes, open mind' to 'open toes straight up your behind'. Jump out her spirit indeed..,I personally love Mama Bear Beth.

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I agree with everything you said! I was willing to give Malik’s Mom the benefit of the doubt until she let “fast lil girl” come out of her mouth. That’s some misogynistic crap right there. And “baggage”- HER son made baggage for the next 21years. No. Malik’s Dad was much more reasonable and a better person it seems like. 

1 hour ago, shouldbedancing said:

Randall and Beth are way too soft.. especially for all their big talk. Oh boy. It makes perfect sense for Deja not to date that boy so just stick to it.

1 hour ago, Armchair Critic said:

That's funny because it was the same for me. I have never really warmed up to Deja. But when Malik's mom called her that I wanted to defend Deja.

I think it bothered all of us because Malik’s mom puts the onus of her son’s sexuality on the girls he dates and and absolves him of all responsibility.  We women have often had the burden of being temptresses, while men and boys get a pass.

I bet you anything that if the shoe was on the other foot and Malik was dating a teen mother, Malik’s mom would think she was the whore of Babylon

57 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

A thousand times this.  Malik is a 16 year old with a baby.  Deja is 14.  In no way is Deja emotionally ready to date Malik, or deal with the issues he brings to the table.  I understand that teenagers don't necessarily see that and may connive to see each other regardless of what their parents say, but Beth and Randall really should have stuck to their guns.  

18 minutes ago, Misslindsey said:

This. I am not invested in Deja or the teen romance either. I do not dislike Deja, but I am kind of bored with the character. They seem to give Deja a fair amount of storylines, words of wisdom, or her own speeches. I find Tess a more interesting character. I would rather see more of the adults than a teen romance. I guess I get my teen romance fix from cheesy teen dramas, so I do not need it here.

It is like the Deja show with the other girls being cute side props.

I also find Malik annoying and this storyline feels stale.

This is a very shallow thing to say but I miss the light/bright Alpine house. The Philly house is dark and depressing.

Also, Malik looks like a parakeet.

[tennisgurl]

This weeks episode brought to you by awkward small talk and passive aggression! 

Maliks mom really came in there ready for a fight, she needed to back the hell up. I mean, that "fast girl" comment was all kinds of bullshit, like Deja is so some kind of evil siren trying to seduce her totally uninterested and angelic son, and right away telling Beth that it must be so hard "raising someone else’s child" and that passive aggressive freaking prayer, I was impressed Beth kept her cool for so long. Acting like all of this must be Dejas fault, even after Malik said that skipping school was his idea, and like Deja was trying to trap him in some kind of teenage seduction web (when HE is the one with the baby) was just so infuriating! And yeah, she "has baggage" but its not exactly her fault her mom had problems and she ended up in a string of crappy foster homes!  Really, like Jack said, no one was probably at their best here, but I nominate her as looking the worst. Granted, Randall didnt look great with his "I dont want her being dragged back..." comment. I mean, I totally get why Beth and Randall have reservations about their fourteen year old dating a sixteen year old with a baby, theres no reason to imply the only object because they think Malik is some kind of hoodrat. 

The story with younger Randall and Jack being all adopted dad angsty is pretty played out (especially with so much territory in their family left uncovered) so it was rather uninteresting, but it did have a few really good moments, like Jack getting the poetry book and Randall reciting the I, Too, Am America. 

The best lines came from Annie and kid Kevin, keeping up that snark in even the most awkward of dinners! "We never say grace, and we haven't gone to church since the election." "Holy crap, he’s grown up Kevin." No wonder Annie and Kevin are so close. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by tennisgurl

[LoveLeigh]

I love THIS IS US, so any episode I appreciate but... this episode bored me. But a boring THIS IS US episode for me is better than no episode so I am happy. 

I suppose I am not liking these sub plots with Randall and the teacher and Deja with her new boyfriend. But, they have to develop new story lines to keep the show going so this is what they came up with. 

[MsJamieDornan]

17 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Also, Malik looks like a parakeet.

That's it !!! Thank you

[tennisgurl]

Really they could have called this episode Dinner and A Show! 

[Drumpf1737]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

When Deja confronted Malik about her misgivings when he reached for her hand, it took me out of the episode completely. What kind of 14-year-old talks like that to a boy who gives her "butterflies?"

I get that Deja had to grow up fast, and I can see her having those feelings. But revealing her vulnerabilities in such a perfectly articulated way, to the boy she likes, at the moment she becomes overwhelmed?

The writers are lucky that Lyric Ross is such a terrific actress, because some of the dialogue they give her can't be easy to pull off.

THIS! Are there women on the writing staff? They're going to have to steal someone from Grown-ish if they're going to continue with this storyline. 

Rita's! I don't know that I've ever seen Rita's in NYC but they're all over New Jersey.

Quote

The best lines came from Annie and kid Kevin, keeping up that snark in even the most awkward of dinners! "We never say grace, and we haven't gone to church since the election." "Holy crap, he’s grown up Kevin." No wonder Annie and Kevin are so close. 

It's little things like that this show does so well. Creating subtle familial ties as well as major connections.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Drumpf1737

[NUguy514]

From his first appearance, I've found Mr. Lawrence to be condescending, judgmental, and pretentious; this episode didn't do much to change that feeling.  However, that doesn't mean I'm on Jack's side because he was being a ridiculous dick.  Frankly, I was on Rebecca and Mrs. Lawrence's side in trying to rein in their shithead husbands for sake of etiquette.

The actress who played Mrs. Lawrence is seriously gorgeous.  Gracious.

Ooooh lordy, Malik's mom had me all:

Bitch, you need to step. OFF.  The "fast little girl" comment has been covered at length; those in glass houses, hon.  And I'm sorry, but it's...incredibly rude to be invited to dinner at someone else's house and insist on saying grace – not your house, not your dinner, not your call, you play by your hosts' rules, lady.  I was totally on Beth's side throughout that skirmish, and I think she showed much more restraint than I would've.

Randall was predictably assy and clueless.  However, after Malik's father checked Randall on not judging him (which was totally earned because: Randall) in a very long monologue, I really wanted Randall or Beth to make a similarly lengthy case in defense of Deja, mostly because I wanted Malik's mom to be shamed more thoroughly.

Having said that, I have no investment in the Malik/Deja relationship because she, at 14, really shouldn't be dating someone who is a teenage father; it's too much.  Of course, Randall and Beth can't forbid it because it'll just make Deja more determined to see him, but I just don't care enough.

Annie wins at everything in life throughout history and until the end of time.❤️❤️❤️

[Spencer Hastings]

There’s nothing that makes me more uncomfortable than secondhand awkward small talk and passive aggression.  Naturally I watched this entire episode and cringed because I’m a masochist. 

Mr. Lawrence was creeping me out until the talk at the end.  What he was doing with Randall is similar to what we call “grooming” in the classroom today.  I’m glad his intentions were good in the end.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Spencer Hastings

[bros402]

This was an episode. It had some very awkward moments.

 

3 hours ago, memememe76 said:

Loved the episode. The scene with the teacher and the wife in their apartment is an example of where This Is Us tries to give us a peak into even the smallest characters’ perspectives.

Loved the poem. And I am on Team Beth.

I live in West Coast Canada, but I am pretty sure I have seen a Rita’s in Chicago and NYC too, although I have never tried it. Not just a Philly thing. 
 

Is that a real cheesesteak place? I went to Gino and the other one across the street.

I'm in central Jersey. I've seen Rita's, but Ralph's is much better.

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

She's becoming a Pearson.

In my New Jersey high school, they called early to ask if the parents if the student was supposed to be there or if the parents had forgotten to call them in sick. Then they made the "excused absence" list for teachers to check against for the rest of the day. 

That was a couple decades ago though.

I'm in NJ. I went to HS 2004-2008, I observed in schools the 2012 school year, student taught first half of 2013 school year. Attendance is submitted at the end of homeroom (If it isn't, the office *will* call and be like "hey you didn't put in your attendance") and then the robot will start calling if someone is not on the list of sick or excused. Or maybe the robot will be down that day and nobody will realize until later on.

They also could have checked the parent portal, which would have listed her as absent.

47 minutes ago, Spencer Hastings said:

There’s nothing that makes me more uncomfortable than secondhand awkward small talk and passive aggression.  Naturally I watched this entire episode and cringed because I’m a masochist. 

Mr. Lawrence was creeping me out until the talk at the end.  What he was doing with Randall is similar to what we call “grooming” in the classroom today.  I’m glad his intentions were good in the end.

Yes. I was cringing so much.

I am a male teacher, certified to teach elementary. All of the alarm bells were going off in my head. You do *not* get that close to a student. Not even if the parent invites you to their house for dinner. Maybe if after the school year is done, you keep up with the student by contacting the parent - but male teachers are discriminated against. Male teachers cannot do that. Nobody wants a lawsuit or a false accusation.

[watcher1006]

4 hours ago, Star Gazer said:

Not to mention I’m sadly not invested in daja and her teenage romance. I have my guilty pleasures of teen dramas, this is us isn’t that. That’s just me. Maybe others differ but I’m here for adult drama not watching teens profess their love.

I generally feel that way about teenage love stories too. I suppose one can go to the CW to see those. But one thing Deja said to her parents that had the ring of plausibility about it was that Malik makes her feel like herself. It spoke to the alienation she still feels having been adopted at a late age into an upper class family.

35 minutes ago, bros402 said:

I am a male teacher, certified to teach elementary. All of the alarm bells were going off in my head. You do *not* get that close to a student. Not even if the parent invites you to their house for dinner. Maybe if after the school year is done, you keep up with the student by contacting the parent - but male teachers are discriminated against. Male teachers cannot do that. Nobody wants a lawsuit or a false accusation.

Hear, hear! I feel that boundaries have to be maintained between students and teachers. There is ever the possibility of improper conduct being perceived, whether it occurs or not. And there is the more mundane issue of favoritism among a teacher's students. I think he should have declined Jack's dinner invitation and suggested a different avenue for discussion.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, watcher1006 said:

I generally feel that way about teenage love stories too. I suppose one can go to the CW to see those. But one thing Deja said to her parents that had the ring of plausibility about it was that Malik makes her feel like herself. It spoke to the alienation she still feels having been adopted at a late age into an upper class family.

Hear, hear! I feel that boundaries have to be maintained between students and teachers. There is ever the possibility of improper conduct being perceived, whether it occurs or not. And there is the more mundane issue of favoritism among a teacher's students. I think he should have declined Jack's dinner invitation and suggested a different avenue for discussion.

Yes, it can be touchy with teachers. I was taken back when my kids guidance counselor "friended" them and a few of their friends, last year of school. Sure, he wanted to keep in touch, but he was young, good looking and single, they kept him from seeing much but weren't worried about stalking. In grade school, back in my day, kids who had teachers over their house were called "teacher pets" and favoritism was always looked for. Many times it wasn't the kids wanting it, the parents thought it was a good idea.

We were told by 10 if kids weren't at school, sometimes earlier. I find it odd if any school didn't.

I feel they were pushing way too much how clueless Jack was and how Randall needed a mentor. The jealousy might have been real but silly. The rich family and the poor, "I always wanted to see the inside of these homes" vs "I don't want my daughter brought down to your level in your neighborhood" nuance.

It's obvious if Deja had Annie's upbringing or any teen without the drama and horrors she had would look at Malik differently, nice guy but probably not wanting to be serious with him. But Malik "sees her" and she's not a broken young woman, she's Deja and special and he makes her feel seen and heard. He's not rich or with a background that was full of privilege.  He made a mistake but a nice young man.  That mistake though is a child and one with a history we haven't explored yet.  (and we know TIU will) Hopefully she'll grow from it but they might just let her have this for life, but I hope she goes to college and spreads her wings. I hope they don't have him choose to steal or break the law in some way to fit another stereotype later. That would upset me.

Edited November 6, 2019 by debraran

[Haleth]

I respect the considerable talent of the young actors playing Deja and Malik, but I just don't care about their teen angst.  I don't want them to be a main storyline for the rest of the season.  But that dinner scene.  Wow.  According to an article linked on the Primetimer homepage the scene was toned down in the final cut.  I can't imagine how much more tense and what other angry words were exchanged.  

The other dinner party was awkward too.  Thank goodness for Kevin's snark to diffuse the tension.  Does anyone really invite a kid's teacher to their house for dinner?  Shouldn't the teacher realize he was getting a bit too invested in one of his students?  It just seems weird to me and a bad idea to become friends with a student. 

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

The only aspect of the Jack plot that I liked was that we got to see a rare, nasty side to Jack. Jealousy does not suit him, but it does kind of show where the kids can get their nasty side from. I was feeling bad for Randall's teacher and his wife. Jack only invited him so he could flaunt himself and try to "win" Randall back to his side, which I'm glad Rebecca pointed out. Jack made the dinner awkward and it was probably a bad idea for Randall's teacher to ever accept that sort of invitation. 

I found Jack’s reaction VERY realistic and not over the top. Jack is a well meaning but insecure person (as we’ve seen he uses drinking to deal with his insecurities)- our society only usually talks about jealousy in a sexual context but parents get jealous too, it’s not the best part of humanity but it happens, especially if their child is connecting with someone that can provide the child something the parent can not. Parents can be very emotionally possessive. 
 

Had Randall been a girl child and strongly connected with a black female teacher at school I could see Rebecca getting jealous too, but she’s more emotionally aware than Jack so she wouldn’t have behaved as badly. 
 

Im glad Mr Lawrence and his wife went- how many black people has Randall had a chance to have dinner with? Much less someone he admires and would like to emulate. I think it meant a lot to Randall to have that dinner. 
 

I too love that poem by Langston Hughes. 

[ShadowFacts]

8 hours ago, TheLotusFlower said:

Seriously?  I absolutely loved Beth in this episode.  Malik's mother completely disrespected Beth from the moment she got there.  First by talking about Deja as if she was some stray that Beth and Randall took in off the street, trying to blame the whole skipping school thing on Deja, and then with her ignorant passive aggressive comment during grace.  I didn't view Beth as hostile at all.  Was she supposed to slap on a fake smile and pretend everything was fine while being disrespected in her own home?  Malik's mother got exactly what she deserved.

Yup, seriously.  All these points are taken, and Beth didn't have to fake and pretend all was well, but she was most assuredly hostile to guests she invited.  When she looked over at the baby and then told the girls to go upstairs and dinner was over, rude, poor example, and out of control.  No better than Malik's mom.  If I were Malik I'd never want to go back there, but teen love will prevail I'm sure. 

[ByaNose]

How is it that Deja gets the After School Special episode? I don't even want to see 10 minutes of her let alone 45 minutes. The only good thing was Beth and maybe a little part of young Randall. Hopefully, Deja will be going to college next year and we can see less of her, if possible.

[Higgins]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Wouldn't Deja's school have called Beth and Randall in the morning, when she didn't show up to class? They would have inundated her with calls and/or located her by tracking her phone, she wouldn't just have been able to spend the day exploring Philly with Malik.

Oh, and I thought the teacher's system of classifying books by publication year was pretentious. Good for him if he can memorize the publication year for all of his books, but what's the point?

That's a really bad system. 

I think Malik looks 12. 

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I fully expected Randall to be using the Dewey Decimal System.  Everyone uses the Dewey Decimal System.  Right?

I was surprised too by Randall and Mr. Lawrence's system.  The books shown were mostly fiction and libraries file fiction alphabetically by author and then by title.  Filing by date of publication is absurd and would make it very difficult to find any book.  Or file you books by genre so you have your poetry all together, science fiction, history, etc on the same shelf.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

As if watching one awkward dinner weren't enough, we had to watch TWO awkward dinners.

Jack's blatant jealousy of Randall's teacher was making me cringe so hard, as was Kelly's passive aggressive digs about the Pearsons not going to church. Ugh.

For me, there was a big difference between Beth judging Malik and Kelly judging Deja. Malik chose to have sex and that's how he ended up a teen parent. Deja, on the other hand, didn't choose to have a mother who is an addict. She didn't choose to be in an unstable home environment. She didn't choose to be in a situation where she went into foster care. Those things happened to her. Judging her for any of that is like judging someone for getting the chicken pox. That's something that happened to her through no choice of her own.

For the record, I don't judge Malik for having sex. Teenagers have sex. That's an indisputable fact. Teenagers have been having sex as long as there have been teenagers. I don't think he's a bad person because he had sex. My point is only that he had a hand in becoming a teen parent whereas Deja had no control in the situation with her mom and her home situation which is what Kelly was being judgey about.

As for Kelly accusing Deja of being fast for cutting school, WTF? Lots of people who cut school aren't having sex. I used to cut class because I was bored and wanted to go to the beach. I wasn't running around having sex though.

What annoyed me about the whole cutting school plotline was Malik's insistence that he had to show Deja Philly RIGHT NOW. Like you can't take do that after school or on the weekend?

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Wouldn't Deja's school have called Beth and Randall in the morning, when she didn't show up to class? They would have inundated her with calls and/or located her by tracking her phone, she wouldn't just have been able to spend the day exploring Philly with Malik.

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't know how Deja's high school works, but in my Canadian high school, the phone calls to parents weren't made until the end of the day, when they could deduce which periods that the student didn't attend.

At my high school, the teachers took attendance every period using a scantron sheet which were clipped to the classroom door. Office aides came by ten minutes after class started to retrieve the attendance sheets which were taken back to the main office and scanned. At the end of the school day, there was an automated system that would call the house and report how many periods of class you had missed that day.

[nlkm9]

10 hours ago, TheLotusFlower said:

Seriously?  I absolutely loved Beth in this episode.  Malik's mother completely disrespected Beth from the moment she got there.  First by talking about Deja as if she was some stray that Beth and Randall took in off the street, trying to blame the whole skipping school thing on Deja, and then with her ignorant passive aggressive comment during grace.  I didn't view Beth as hostile at all.  Was she supposed to slap on a fake smile and pretend everything was fine while being disrespected in her own home?  Malik's mother got exactly what she deserved.

I really dislike Beth but yes you hit it head on. As much as the Jack episodes annoy me, i loved this one. Randall’s poem was just great. I love those kids all of them past and present. And honestly i got a bit hoppy at deja and Malik, even though she was making a Randall like speech. I may have missed it, did they kiss? It really did bring me back to my first serious boyfriend and like i said i got goopy 🙂

[ams1001]

6 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

Mr. Lawrence was creeping me out until the talk at the end.  What he was doing with Randall is similar to what we call “grooming” in the classroom today.  I’m glad his intentions were good in the end.

Thank you for spelling out what was (at least partly) bothering me at the back of my mind. I get why he would connect with the one black student in his class, but he really shouldn't be appearing to have a favorite like that. I would think most school administrations would probably frown on a teacher going to dinner at a student's house like that, too.

5 hours ago, bros402 said:

I am a male teacher, certified to teach elementary. All of the alarm bells were going off in my head. You do *not* get that close to a student. Not even if the parent invites you to their house for dinner. Maybe if after the school year is done, you keep up with the student by contacting the parent - but male teachers are discriminated against. Male teachers cannot do that. Nobody wants a lawsuit or a false accusation.

I'd think being the only minority teacher in the school, getting close to the only minority student, adds an extra layer to that, too. Shows poor judgment at the very least.

I had a teacher in high school who was a total hippie (complete with long hair and tie-dyed t-shirts) who was everyone's favorite. But he absolutely kept a professional distance. He told his us once that he would have us call him by his first name but he wasn't allowed to do that. Once you graduated, he fully expected kids to call him by his first name if they saw him around town (and he played in band so it wasn't unlikely). And it was around the same time as the show - I would have been a senior when the Big Three were in 7th grade.

5 hours ago, bros402 said:

I'm in central Jersey. I've seen Rita's, but Ralph's is much better.

Me, too, and I agree. 😉

1 minute ago, nlkm9 said:

I may have missed it, did they kiss?

Yeah, it was at the end when they were looking at the lights on the houses. (How long were they out, anyway? From the morning before school started until after dark..?)

[qtpye]

F

Quote

rom his first appearance, I've found Mr. Lawrence to be condescending, judgmental, and pretentious; this episode didn't do much to change that feeling.  However, that doesn't mean I'm on Jack's side because he was being a ridiculous dick.  Frankly, I was on Rebecca and Mrs. Lawrence's side in trying to rein in their shithead husbands for sake of etiquette.

The actress who played Mrs. Lawrence is seriously gorgeous.  Gracious.

Ooooh lordy, Malik's mom had me all:

Bitch, you need to step. OFF.  The "fast little girl" comment has been covered at length; those in glass houses, hon.  And I'm sorry, but it's...incredibly rude to be invited to dinner at someone else's house and insist on saying grace – not your house, not your dinner, not your call, you play by your hosts' rules, lady.  I was totally on Beth's side throughout that skirmish, and I think she showed much more restraint than I would've.

Randall was predictably assy and clueless.  However, after Malik's father checked Randall on not judging him (which was totally earned because: Randall) in a very long monologue, I really wanted Randall or Beth to make a similarly lengthy case in defense of Deja, mostly because I wanted Malik's mom to be shamed more thoroughly.

Having said that, I have no investment in the Malik/Deja relationship because she, at 14, really shouldn't be dating someone who is a teenage father; it's too much.  Of course, Randall and Beth can't forbid it because it'll just make Deja more determined to see him, but I just don't care enough.

Annie wins at everything in life throughout history and until the end of time.❤️❤️❤️

Quote

  QUOTE

3 HOURS AGO, DEBRARAN SAID:

Yes, it can be touchy with teachers. I was taken back when my kids guidance counselor "friended" them and a few of their friends, last year of school. Sure, he wanted to keep in touch, but he was young, good looking and single, they kept him from seeing much but weren't worried about stalking. In grade school, back in my day, kids who had teachers over their house were called "teacher pets" and favoritism was always looked for. Many times it wasn't the kids wanting it, the parents thought it was a good idea.

We were told by 10 if kids weren't at school, sometimes earlier. I find it odd if any school didn't.

I feel they were pushing way too much how clueless Jack was and how Randall needed a mentor. The jealousy might have been real but silly. The rich family and the poor, "I always wanted to see the inside of these homes" vs "I don't want my daughter brought down to your level in your neighborhood" nuance.

It's obvious if Deja had Annie's upbringing or any teen without the drama and horrors she had would look at Malik differently, nice guy but probably not wanting to be serious with him. But Malik "sees her" and she's not a broken young woman, she's Deja and special and he makes her feel seen and heard. He's not rich or with a background that was full of privilege.  He made a mistake but a nice young man.  That mistake though is a child and one with a history we haven't explored yet.  (and we know TIU will) Hopefully she'll grow from it but they might just let her have this for life, but I hope she goes to college and spreads her wings. I hope they don't have him choose to steal or break the law in some way to fit another stereotype later. That would upset me.

Quote

 QUOTE

 1 HOUR AGO, SCARLETT45 SAID:

I found Jack’s reaction VERY realistic and not over the top. Jack is a well meaning but insecure person (as we’ve seen he uses drinking to deal with his insecurities)- our society only usually talks about jealousy in a sexual context but parents get jealous too, it’s not the best part of humanity but it happens, especially if their child is connecting with someone that can provide the child something the parent can not. Parents can be very emotionally possessive. 
 

Had Randall been a girl child and strongly connected with a black female teacher at school I could see Rebecca getting jealous too, but she’s more emotionally aware than Jack so she wouldn’t have behaved as badly. 
 

Im glad Mr Lawrence and his wife went- how many black people has Randall had a chance to have dinner with? Much less someone he admires and would like to emulate. I think it meant a lot to Randall to have that dinner. 
 

I too love that poem by Langston Hughes. 

Quote

 QUOTE

1 HOUR AGO, ICEMISER69 SAID:

Beth was just as hostile, she just did it by talking behind the backs of Malik's parents.  She drew all sorts of conclusions about Malik without knowing any of his backstory.   She still doesn't know his backstory.  So Malik's mom said things about Deja that got Beth so offended?  Look in the mirror Beth, what conclusions have you been drawing about Malik and his parents?

I don't like awkward.  One of the many reasons why I bailed on family gatherings for twenty-five some odd years.  For whatever reasons, when my family gets together, the pecking order gets reestablished.  I would rather stay home alone with my pets and eat nachos than deal with that drama.  

I think the problem was that we were supposed to see Randall and Beth as Bougie and they were supposed to be having class conflicts with Malick's parents. However, what can be more elitist than judging a poor child for being born into an unfortunate life situation where they have no one to take proper care of them?

Deja is not some trash that the Pearson's picked up from the curb. She was a foster child who was in need of a good home, nothing more or less.

Malik's mother was trying to imply some ignorant bullshit with her "fast girl" and "raising someone else's kid with baggage comment", yet she expects a complete pass on Malik's teen father situation. She wants people to see Malik as a good kid and not another statistic then maybe she should show Deja the same courtesy.  

 I think the problem with Malik's mother is that she is judging a child for nothing more then being into circumstances that were beyond her control. Deja is not some trash that the Pearsons picked up from the curb. She is a child who just needs a proper home.

However, Malik's mom probably does begrudge anyone who sees her son as just a teen father and not the good kid that he is,..yet she is not giving Deja the same courtesy. The glass house saying is very appropriate.

Also, real Christians do not use grace to shade other people.

[Jax7917]

What 14 and 16 year old acts like De ja and Malik? I am a teacher and I can promise you none of them act that mature.. and are we supposed to blame Randall and Beth for putting a stop to 14 year old De ja dating a 16 year old with a baby? No parent would be like.. sure .. here's my blessing. On the other hand, I get why Beth got annoyed with the other mother... but I can't stand her overall attitude about everything. She just comes off stuck up and cold to me and I haven't really liked her since the beginning.