S04.E07: The Dinner and the Date

[3 is enough]

It really annoys me that they are bringing in two families (Malik's and Cassie's), while Annie gets no stories, Tess gets a small one, and we STILL do not know the whole Rebecca-Miguel story.  

Seriously, why is Annie even there?

[Enigma X]

I am annoyed that this far into the season Randall is still separated story wise from the rest of the Pearsons.

[Higgins]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

TVLine gave their Performer of the Week award to Asante Blackk for this episode. Apparently they wanted to give it to him for the premier episode as well. I mean, he's fine as the character, but I'm not seeing performer of the week here. Then again, I am not a big fan of the storyline (I prefer the story to focus on the adults in any show, not just this one) so maybe that affects my perception.

I love me some Omar Epps and I wish they could've found some other way to add him to the cast. Maybe William had another love child and Randall has a half-brother?! 🙂

His acting is terrible. Hmmm

[crowsworks]

On 11/9/2019 at 7:34 PM, The Ringo Kidd said:

What is interesting is that Kevin the most celebrated and successful of the Big Three. Maybe he was better off being ignored.

Laurence Olivier said acting was "Look at me! Look at me!"

Kevin to a T.  Heck he almsost drowned while mummy and daddy were consentrating on their darlings.

Annie could be a future Oscar winner

[qtpye]

6 hours ago, crowsworks said:

Laurence Olivier said acting was "Look at me! Look at me!"

Kevin to a T.  Heck he almsost drowned while mummy and daddy were consentrating on their darlings.

Annie could be a future Oscar winner

Does anyone find it strange that Annie and Tess never seem to be resentful of all the attention that Deja seems to receives? I know that they love Deja and she seems like a good older sister.

However, they have had to deal with a lot, mostly due to their Father's weird whims and his fixation on a biological father he knew for a year.

It's interesting that Kevin has always resented Randall but the girls seems to love Deja.

Heck, no one even cared she took a baseball bat to a car.

[smartymarty]

On 11/9/2019 at 7:22 PM, Blakeston said:

But I also think that Rebecca flat-out liked Randall better than Kevin. And I think Jack flat-out liked Kate better than Kevin - and respected Randall more than Kevin.

I don't think Rebecca liked Randall more. She protected Randall because he was different (both in skin color, which could invite discrimination, and character, nerdy at an age when boys are expected to be athletic). Similarly, Jack felt protective of Randall because of his differences.

Why Jack spoiled Kate is a mystery to me. But he didn't do her any favors with that attention.

Both parents assumed Kevin was okay on his own, no extra parental attention needed, with the result that Kevin felt slighted.

But they're all adults now and should put their childhood treatment in perspective and get over it. They're in charge of their self esteem now.

[smartymarty]

8 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Does anyone find it strange that Annie and Tess never seem to be resentful of all the attention that Deja seems to receives?

I think it's just a matter of what stories the writers are telling at any one time. And particularly with Annie, the writers might not feature her because the actor is so young. I don't see any slights.

[qtpye]

12 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

I don't think Rebecca liked Randall more. She protected Randall because he was different (both in skin color, which could invite discrimination, and character, nerdy at an age when boys are expected to be athletic). Similarly, Jack felt protective of Randall because of his differences.

Why Jack spoiled Kate is a mystery to me. But he didn't do her any favors with that attention.

Both parents assumed Kevin was okay on his own, no extra parental attention needed, with the result that Kevin felt slighted.

But they're all adults now and should put their childhood treatment in perspective and get over it. They're in charge of their self esteem now.

This is not to make any excuses for Rebecca and Jack but I have always heard that three children are the most difficult to raise because one will always be neglected. If you have more than three, the children tend to pair up and help each other, leading to no one feeling like the odd one out.

I used to think that Jack spoiled Kate so much because he just was one of those fathers who thought their daughters were little princesses that could do no wrong. I am now beginning to think that it was more selfish then that. He needed Kate to need him. Heck, I wonder if he even enabled her weight gain to a small degree because that would mean he would need him more. He was insecure in his relationship with Rebecca, because he thought she was too good for him, and on the outside Kevin was usually so awesome that Jack did not feel needed at all by him, even though we know that was not the case.

My uncle was the favorite child of his parents, because he was the first born son. My mother and her other brothers got the short shaft and became very successful in life, though they never totally got over the insecurity that comes with not being the favorite one.

The favored uncle went on to have a stroke at a young age and died tragically. He could never handle anything stressful because he grew up extremely coddled. He was a total loser in life and never accomplished anything. He sponged off his parents and never made anything of his career (my grandfather used connections to get him into a prestigious field and school, something he never did for any of his other children).

[Evagirl]

I love watching Jack on this show and if he didn't appear every now and then, I would not watch at all.  Jack's character is the main reason I fell in love with this show.  I know his character is over the top and much too much "father tries best", but that's what drew me.  His love and compassion for all of his kids is a fantasy super dad that I just enjoy watching.  His love for Rebecca leaves me going "awwwwwwwwwww" all the time.

Telling Randall's teacher that Randall was his heart.  Telling Rebecca that Katie-girl is just "big-boned".  Giving Kevin his Viet Nam necklace . . . all of this and more sold me on Jack.  When he's really gone forever, the heart and soul of the show is gone - IMO only.

[izabella]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

Does anyone find it strange that Annie and Tess never seem to be resentful of all the attention that Deja seems to receives? I know that they love Deja and she seems like a good older sister.

They have set up Annie to be super chill and never creating any waves.  Beth even told her that's what they love about her.  So I don't expect them to show Annie having issues with it.

But Tess is the one whose place in the family as the eldest was taken by Deja, and she isn't super chill like Annie, so  I do find it strange that we haven't seen any jealousy or resentment.

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

I don't think Rebecca liked Randall more. She protected Randall because he was different (both in skin color, which could invite discrimination, and character, nerdy at an age when boys are expected to be athletic). Similarly, Jack felt protective of Randall because of his differences.

I have developed the impression that Rebecca did like Randall more.  I think she identified with him more because they shared more things they liked, like their love of reading.  She also had a contentious relationship with Kate, but not Randall, so she liked him more for that reason as well - he was easier to be with.  Kevin might as well have not even been related to her for all the desire she had to spend time with him.

[Evagirl]

15 minutes ago, izabella said:

I have developed the impression that Rebecca did like Randall more.  I think she identified with him more because they shared more things they liked, like their love of reading.  She also had a contentious relationship with Kate, but not Randall, so she liked him more for that reason as well - he was easier to be with.  Kevin might as well have not even been related to her for all the desire she had to spend time with him.

On one of the AJD (after Jack died) shows, Kate had a heart to heart with adult Kevin.  I remember she told him that Randall was just easy to love whereas she had to struggle for love with Kevin and Kate.

[gonzosgirrl]

45 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

I love watching Jack on this show and if he didn't appear every now and then, I would not watch at all.  Jack's character is the main reason I fell in love with this show.  I know his character is over the top and much too much "father tries best", but that's what drew me.  His love and compassion for all of his kids is a fantasy super dad that I just enjoy watching.  His love for Rebecca leaves me going "awwwwwwwwwww" all the time.

Telling Randall's teacher that Randall was his heart.  Telling Rebecca that Katie-girl is just "big-boned".  Giving Kevin his Viet Nam necklace . . . all of this and more sold me on Jack.  When he's really gone forever, the heart and soul of the show is gone - IMO only.

Not just you. I admit that 'he's my heart' threw me for a moment, but then I thought about it and I believe he would have said the same (and meant it) no matter which of the Big Three he was talking about any given moment. I love Jack, probably because I had that kind of dad. He had his flaws and demons, but I could never have picked a better man as my father.

[Evagirl]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I had that kind of dad. He had his flaws and demons, but I could never have picked a better man as my father.

Just . . . wow!  You were blessed.

[The Ringo Kidd]

Rebecca is just not very likable.

I don’t want to see her scenes at all.

[gonzosgirrl]

50 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

Just . . . wow!  You were blessed.

Doubly so. I was also adopted. And just to give her her due, I also had a pretty great mom. I have four older brothers (their bio kids) and they really, really wanted a daughter. :)

[memememe76]

We have seen Tess act out, leaving the house and getting in the car with Kevin. Kevin has kinda voiced out her frustrations on her behalf. Tess has also been shown to have the hardest time adjusting to the move. And she is the only one we have seen as an adult. I think sufficient attention has been placed on her. 
 

I think Annie and Tess will be the ones who will bring Nicky into the fold, just like they did with Miguel.

[Ohmo]

8 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Why Jack spoiled Kate is a mystery to me.

I think it had to do (at least in part) with the fact that she was the only girl.  Some fathers want at least one child of each gender.  It would be interesting to consider how Jack and Rebecca might have parented three boys, three girls, or two girls and a boy.  I bet we would have seen some different parenting choices by both Jack and Rebecca.

[Crs97]

I like Rebecca.  I think she falls victim to the Super Mom syndrome where she is held to a higher standard and never allowed to make a mistake.  

[RedbirdNelly]

15 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I like Rebecca.  I think she falls victim to the Super Mom syndrome where she is held to a higher standard and never allowed to make a mistake.  

I agree. I like this show partly because it has characters that I care for, that have good qualities but that also make mistakes. Rebecca is not perfect but no mother is. Her biggest mistake was obviously keeping Randall's dad information from him. That was HUGE. Other errors we see her make are in the ballpark of normal parent. No parent says the perfect thing every time or is perceived by the child to have handled everything correctly.

I enjoyed this episode. I liked seeing the interaction of Malik's parents pre-dinner because it was fun to see an outsider's perception, even if I don't agree with it. I wanted Beth/Malik's mom to cool it down a bit. They went really there really fast. I'm more in the "react in a muted way but save my real reaction for when it is just me and my husband" which obviously is not as good television. Even though I wanted Beth to bring down the temperature in the room, it was fun to watch.

Young Randall looking happy (can't quite remember the scene) was so great. His face just glows.

Loved the teacher's wife. Teacher should have volunteered info on the festival and said something like happy to meet up with you (Randall plus parent(s)) at the next one.

Kevin's snarky comments were just funny.

I felt like Deja expressing what she was feeling using full sentences with Malik was not realistic--most adults can't do that. But at the same time, it was kind of nice to see.

[CrystalBlue]

On 11/8/2019 at 5:20 AM, smartymarty said:

That wine wasn't really well hidden in the pantry.

To the Philadelphia-area commenter who had never heard Killadelphia, my husband grew up in South Jersey and remembered the term well.

Didn't have a problem with Malik's mother asking to say grace since it's important to her family -- Beth and Randall's family could sit quietly by --  but of course what she said was indefensible.

Etiquette rules dictate when you're in someone else's home as an invited guest, you behave as a guest, not hijack the hosts' traditions and religion for your own.  Malik's mother could have said a silent prayer over her meal before eating rather than disrupt the hosts' procedures.

[CrystalBlue]

On 11/8/2019 at 11:25 AM, Crs97 said:

Unfortunately, that was undercut by his mom telling him that she was probably hungry and where are the bottle was that she had prepared.

I liked Darnell and the fact that he quickly said skipping school was his son’s idea, but I thought his “I’ll take off my shirt and tell you not to judge me for my mistakes” speech was completely undermined by his wife judging Deja for her mother’s actions.  I really wish Beth had brought that to his attention.

Beth was probably mildly shocked or bewildered as to why she suddenly had a half-naked man in her living room.  I don't fault Beth for taking the gracious high road and not continuing the snarkfest.

[CrystalBlue]

On 11/8/2019 at 12:47 PM, ams1001 said:

I won't be the least bit surprised if we see him again.

Really?  I'm still waiting for the Crockpot Couple to make a comeback.  😄

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 11/11/2019 at 8:17 AM, smartymarty said:

Why Jack spoiled Kate is a mystery to me. But he didn't do her any favors with that attention.

Jack was very protective of his mother, who needed his protection, and it trickled down to being very attentive to his daughter, who was also needy for different reasons.  Rebecca had plenty of confidence from childhood and didn't need that sort of attention.

Edited November 13, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

[CrystalBlue]

On 11/9/2019 at 9:10 AM, sasha206 said:

But she kept that big secret from Randall who as an adult should have been able to make the choice.  It was understandable why she did that when he was growing up.  It was not acceptable to keep that secret from him when he was old enough to make that choice.  And she was busted; she never offered it up when Randall started to get to know his dad.  As a result, Randall had very little time with his biological father who dies shortly after meeting him.  And somehow he gets over this big lie and its effect in what, one episode?

When was Rebecca obligated to disrupt her entire family and search for Randall's bio father to see if he's now sober?  Rebecca adopted Randall legally and had no obligation to play Sherlock Holmes so her kid could have a "new" dad.

[CrystalBlue]

On 11/11/2019 at 5:17 AM, qtpye said:

Does anyone find it strange that Annie and Tess never seem to be resentful of all the attention that Deja seems to receives? I know that they love Deja and she seems like a good older sister.

However, they have had to deal with a lot, mostly due to their Father's weird whims and his fixation on a biological father he knew for a year.

It's interesting that Kevin has always resented Randall but the girls seems to love Deja.

Heck, no one even cared she took a baseball bat to a car.

That's another thing that bothered me in the Deja & Malik's Day Off episode.  When they were still riding the bus before actually skipping school together, Deja told Malik the story of how she battered the Mercedes Benz, which made Malik even more in awe of her!

[CrystalBlue]

On 11/11/2019 at 7:51 AM, Evagirl said:

I love watching Jack on this show and if he didn't appear every now and then, I would not watch at all.  Jack's character is the main reason I fell in love with this show.  I know his character is over the top and much too much "father tries best", but that's what drew me.  His love and compassion for all of his kids is a fantasy super dad that I just enjoy watching.  His love for Rebecca leaves me going "awwwwwwwwwww" all the time.

Telling Randall's teacher that Randall was his heart.  Telling Rebecca that Katie-girl is just "big-boned".  Giving Kevin his Viet Nam necklace . . . all of this and more sold me on Jack.  When he's really gone forever, the heart and soul of the show is gone - IMO only.

But that's the point of the show, Jack is never really gone.

[OrigamiNightmare]

decades a bit, but certainly .....

[Sake614]

On 11/6/2019 at 12:06 AM, KaveDweller said:

She's becoming a Pearson.

In my New Jersey high school, they called early to ask if the parents if the student was supposed to be there or if the parents had forgotten to call them in sick. Then they made the "excused absence" list for teachers to check against for the rest of the day. 

That was a couple decades ago though.

damn, I'm lucky my schools never called my parents or I wouldn't be sitting here right now lol! I got an A+ in McDonald's my junior year of high school. But that was 40 years ago...

[Sake614]

On 11/6/2019 at 10:04 AM, Wouldofshouldof said:

Lol. Once when I was younger my family and I were at some buffet restaurant, where kids ate for less.  My dad pointed to me and said "She's under 12," and of course I said "No I'm not!"

OMG! I did the exact same thing! My parents and I went to Disney and I was 12. There was NO WAY I was telling people I wasn't. And I didn't. The waitress asked my age and I said '12!' I thought my father was going to have an elephant lol!

[chitowngirl]

The kids and I went to a Fabrege exhibit when they were younger. They were above the age to get in for free (over 6, I believe). When the admissions person asked how old they were, I cheekily replied, “How old do you want them to be?” Then I told them they were 7. He laughed and let them in for free anyway!

Edited November 13, 2019 by chitowngirl

[PRgal]

On 11/13/2019 at 10:18 AM, Sake614 said:

OMG! I did the exact same thing! My parents and I went to Disney and I was 12. There was NO WAY I was telling people I wasn't. And I didn't. The waitress asked my age and I said '12!' I thought my father was going to have an elephant lol!

My parents would always tell me ahead of time that they were going to lie about my age for the buffet type places.  LOL...I was 13 and they said I was 11.  I passed, but I think the server gave my parents a side-eye (I had a book with me that in no way was something someone in Grade 6 would read).  

[Kirkydee]

On 11/7/2019 at 9:57 PM, PRgal said:

I want to pronounce Malík’s name, Mal-ik rather than Mal-EEK.....

This reminds me of the role Omar Epps (Darnell) played in "Higher Learning". His name was Malik, but his skin head tormentor called him MAL-ik- mockingly.

Dont know how many saw the movie or remember that scene

[Pallas]

On 11/12/2019 at 7:48 PM, CrystalBlue said:

When was Rebecca obligated to disrupt her entire family and search for Randall's bio father to see if he's now sober?

Rebecca sought out William, both times. The first, when Randall was still an infant (it was William who suggested that Rebecca change the baby's name from Kyle), and the second when Randall was nine. William was already sober during Rebecca's first visit; he was still sober and in the same apartment when Rebecca returned, nearly ten years later.

[Scarlett45]

15 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Rebecca sought out William, both times. The first, when Randall was still an infant (it was William who suggested that Rebecca change the baby's name from Kyle), and the second when Randall was nine. William was already sober during Rebecca's first visit; he was still sober and in the same apartment when Rebecca returned, nearly ten years later.

@CrystalBlue I don’t think anyone is suggesting Rebecca had an obligation to seek out William, but she knew where he was and lied by omission to Jack AND (more importantly) Randall when Randall was looking for his birth parents in the paper as an adolescent. 
 And then when Randall was a 30 something and finally found him she pretended like she had never seen the man before. Randall had every right to be upset about that. 

[Sake614]

21 hours ago, PRgal said:

My parents would always tell me ahead of time that they were going to lie about my age for the buffet type places.  LOL...I was 13 and they said I was 11.  I passed, but I think the server gave my parents a side-eye (I had a book with me that in no way was something someone in Grade 6 would read).  

Oh they told me. I just refused to go along. Because you know, I was TWELVE dammit lol!

[bettername2come]

On 11/10/2019 at 1:15 AM, Veronica said:

I’m hoping Future Annie is President. 

I'd vote for her. She'd be a refreshingly honest candidate. Give the girl a story!

I thought Malik and Deja acted their storyline out well. I really appreciated the open communication at the park. Malik seems like a decent guy and loving father. They seem to make a good couple. 

I liked seeing Tess wanting to hold the baby. I think it fits well with her future social worker career.

I do not like Malik's mother. She was seriously overstepping and unfair to Deja.

[PRgal]

10 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I'd vote for her. She'd be a refreshingly honest candidate. Give the girl a story!

I thought Malik and Deja acted their storyline out well. I really appreciated the open communication at the park. Malik seems like a decent guy and loving father. They seem to make a good couple. 

I liked seeing Tess wanting to hold the baby. I think it fits well with her future social worker career.

I do not like Malik's mother. She was seriously overstepping and unfair to Deja.

Running for office, especially President, would probably be the only way her family would pay any kind of attention to her.  Though Annie is the youngest, she's definitely the Jan Brady of the family (Kevin is kind of a Jan too).  

[stefinny]

On 11/13/2019 at 10:08 AM, Sake614 said:

damn, I'm lucky my schools never called my parents or I wouldn't be sitting here right now lol! I got an A+ in McDonald's my junior year of high school. But that was 40 years ago...

My school did not call either (1970s-1980s).   Well, once in a long while they would make a random call.   Generally, if you were absent, you just showed up with a note (excuse) from your parents the next day.  Or a good forgery.

[stefinny]

I am just catching up so obviously I'm late to the party and I don't know what the next 2 shows have (had) in store.  But I guess I am in the minority.  I don't care at all to see the kids' stories.  Tess, Annie, Deja - just not interesting to me.  Although I am happy that they don't suffer from SORAS or that the writers haven't had them vanish altogether.