S11.E01: The Woman Who Fell to Earth

[sugarbaker design]

I loved it, especially the fact the companions, for the most part, have pre-existing relationships.  I guess it's only inevitable that Ryan will call Graham 'granddad' at some point.

[Sakura12]

I loved it. I loved Jodie Whittaker. It wasn't perfect but I see potential. It's not often I like the Doctor from the first episode. I couldn't get into Peter Capaldi.  Jodie felt like the Doctor, I was so happy when she remembered her name. I see a little bit of 10, 11 and 12 in her. 

So far the companions were interesting. I do agree that Yaz didn't get much characterization. But this seemed like Ryan's introduction I'm sure she'll get one too.  I figured Grace was done for when she was excited about everything and remembered she wasn't one of the companions I read about. It's too bad I liked her but I guess we needed a reason for Ryan and Graham to join her. 

[benteen]

Is the stuff that was cut out being added to the later broadcast?

It's interesting that the Predator aliens just pick some random person to hunt and not someone who would have a fighting chance.

[starri]

100% instantly likable team.

This is arguably as tricky a needle to thread as Eccleston had to do with "Rose," and Jodie pulled it off beautifully.

[elle]

54 minutes ago, John Potts said:

I'm rather curious as to what was cut out for the US broadcast. I'm guessing you didn't get the A-Team montage of the Doctor building her sonic or the bike riding scenes -  what else was cut?

Both were shown for the simulcast (afternoon in the US).  I don't know about the 2 hour rebroadcast this evening.

[SailorGirl]

I just watched the rebroadcast and everything was shown. 

She used materials from the alien's transport pod as well as earth materials, including "Sheffield Steel," to build the new Sonic Swiss Army knife, without the knife. :-D 

Edited October 8, 2018 by SailorGirl

[LiveenLetLive]

5 hours ago, Ms Lark said:

Oh, I like her! They made a good choice. I was a bit worried since I really wanted to like Capaldi and just couldn't warm to him at all. Also like the companions, although I wish they hadn't killed off Grace. At least she went out a hero. Glad for new critters other than Daleks and Cybermen, at least for this episode. Refreshing!

Same here, did not like Capaldi at all, too frail (he and I are the same age btw.) Jodie hit the right note, I love that she is not distractingly gorgeous and is rather tomboyish in all the right ways, it appears to be that this season will be good.

 

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

Also, I will always love The Husbands of River Song and thought Capaldi played off of Kingston amazingly. 

The ONLY Capaldi episode that I can say unreservedly that I loved.

[angora]

As soon as we saw that Graham was Grace's husband, I realized she was probably doomed, and that bummed me out.  I liked her.

Like what we've seen of the companions so far.  I like that the pre-established connections between them aren't rock solid (Ryan isn't super close to Graham, sounds like Yaz and Ryan haven't seen much of each other since they were kids) - it gives us some background to work with while still leaving a lot of room for the relationships to develop.  Agree that this felt sort of like Ryan's intro episode, and hope we get more on the other two soon.

The cinematography, location shooting, and effects all looked wonderful.  Story was a bit meh, although having an alien with a specific motivation makes a nice change from recent seasons' heavy reliance on growling monsters and/or technology that doesn't realize it's malfunctioning.  My biggest quibble was that the pacing seemed to drag at times - not so much the flow of the overall story, but individual scenes themselves.  Not sure if it was a directing issue or just working out early kinks, but it did feel noticeably slow to me in places.

Unquestionably, my favorite thing about the episode is Thirteen.  The pacing issues made her feel a little off here and there, but whenever she'd get into the right rhythm, my brain instantly went, "There she is!"  Loved her building stuff (the sonic screwdriver made me think of Romana making her own,) her mile-a-minute thought process and amusing non-sequiturs, and of course, the big "I'm the Doctor" moment - chills.  Her announcing, "I'm calling you Yaz because we're friends now," two minutes after they met was awesome.

I noticed the apologizing, but as others have pointed out, Ten was the king of, "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry."  It also occurred to me, about halfway through, that the Doctor has probably never been called "love" so many times in short succession before.

[Lantern7]

Great episode. They showed it at the Hulu Theater in Manhattan for New York Comic Con, with Jodie dropping by. I . . . did not go.  I did all four days of the show, I wanted to maximum time at the convention center, I was barely running on fumes. Yeah, it was a tough choice. I did pay money to see David Tennant, Alex Kingston and Matt Smith talked for about ninety minutes on Friday night,  And I met Alex earlier that day. So I still have Whovian cred, yes?

Yeah, this was better than "Deep Breath." Yeah, we had a functioning Doctor with minimal regeneration headaches (think Tom Baker in "Robot"), we got a lady that might as well have been wearing a wearing a red shirt the entire episode (RIP Grace; we can't have a companion with the same name with the same spelling as a prior companion, even if that companion only appeared in the movie), and I still don't get how the Doctor survived a massive fall. But it was a fun episode, even as BBCA insisted on bringing in commercials. I know that there's been criticism about a female Doctor . . . but it was bound to happen, especially after Missy, and Jodie Whittaker looks good in the role so far. And I like the idea of a full-on entourage for her, including two who are related to each other (yeah, I know, step-grandfather, but still).

Creepy bad guy. Teeth in the flesh was a nice touch. "Tim Shaw"? Is that its real name? I also don't blame his quarry for kicking him off the crane. "YOU HAD NO RIGHT!!!" "Lady, he was gonna put me on ice! I had lots of rights!!"

7 hours ago, LGraves65 said:

Also, the Doctor becomes a female human and immediately starts apologizing for shit that's not her fault? Not cool, writers. Not cool.

 

5 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

She's embracing her inner 10.  He spent a lot of time saying how sorry he was.

*rimshot* #rimshot?

Nice ending. I hope there's a logical "out" for the team. I'd also like to see the new credits.
 

[Writing Wrongs]

About the theme:

Quote

However, it’s now been revealed that fans will have to wait a little longer than expected to hear the new theme and see the new title sequence – because according to series boss Chris Chibnall, they won’t actually turn up until the second episode of the series.

“There’s a new opening title sequence too, and a new arrangement of the opening theme, by our brilliant new composer Segun Akinola,” series showrunner Chibnall wrote in the latest issue of Doctor Who Magazine.

“You’ll have to wait till episode two to see those in situ, though. Episode one starts slightly differently.”

[Skyfall]

So what was added in rebroadcast? Behinds the scenes stuff I’m assuming.

[Unusual Suspect]

2 hours ago, John Potts said:

A minor point, but I wonder why they chose Sheffield? I don't know whether it was filmed there, but wonder if it was out of deference to Jodie's own Yorkshire upbringing. Though if that was the case, why not make it Huddersfield where (according to Wiki) she was born? Is Sheffield a sexier choice?

I think that's kinda the joke. Given how everyone was like "nothing like that happens here", it's a dig at all the aliens going to London instead.

1 hour ago, starri said:

100% instantly likable team.

This is arguably as tricky a needle to thread as Eccleston had to do with "Rose," and Jodie pulled it off beautifully.

Likeable, but not drawing me in or registering strongly with me. The companions were all okay, except I was pulled out of the episode by just waiting for Grace, who was practically wearing a "Dead Meat" T-Shirt, to die.

I'm looking forward to seeing more of this team, but I'm not sold yet.

What did, though, was Jodie Whittaker's Doctor. I'm in. 13 seems pretty darn awesome.

[ichbin]

It was worth it just to see the look on my dyspraxic child's face when it was revealed that Ryan has dyspraxia.  Not something that comes up very often, if at all.

I wasn't a huge fan of the gender switch, but I think she's might win me over. Companions seem fine too. 

[Chyromaniac]

6 minutes ago, Skyfall said:

So what was added in rebroadcast? Behinds the scenes stuff I’m assuming.

Yes- mostly clips from NY Comic-Con. If nothing else, hearing Jodie say that one of her inspirations was “Mikay frum the Goonays” made them worth the time. ? I assume the whole panel will be online sooner later, which will probably be a better way to watch. There was also a different follow up show, this time with Wil Wheaton and two other new guests.

Having watched the new episode (all or in part) 2-3 times now, several things stand out for me. First, overall I really enjoyed the story, and the main cast were all very good. Jodie is absolutely the right choice for this Doctor- great energy, personality, and performance. The plot seemed well suited for an introductory adventure- it did a good job of establishing the key elements of the series, without feeling redundant for long time fans.

 I also thought the alien was really effective. Villains like the Angels or Silence are creepy and cool- but they often feel more like concepts than characters. This guy had a personality and motivation- despite the fact that he feels a bit like a, shall we say... homage to the Predator or certain Star Trek aliens, and I feel like his race has the potential to become a recurring threat.  Also, it was nice to have some character threads introduced- but I’m glad it doesn’t look like they explicitly set up a season-long story arc in the premiere.

Some minor nitpicks- I don’t think anyone would refer to their beloved grandmother as the greatest woman “that I’ve ever met.” Also, I get that most of the show takes place in one night, but after that, it’s hard to tell how much time has passed. It almost feels like it should be just the next day- but if so, then they managed to arrange an entire memorial for a woman who had been dead for barely 12 hours. If not, then how long had Jodie been wearing Peter’s suit at that point, and where had she been sleeping/eating? No wonder Yaz said she needed a change of clothes...

[futurechemist]

This was a fun intro to the Doctor. I like that 13 is a more empathetic version.

But BBC America taking a 63 minute episode and bloating it to 105 minutes with commercials and some generic clips from a panel is just total bs.

Edited October 8, 2018 by futurechemist

[Llywela]

7 hours ago, clack said:

I liked the more deliberate pacing -- so unlike the Moffat-era frantic pacing -- and I also liked the more realistic tone. (Moffat could get a bit cartoonish). This episode felt less Who, more like one of the comedic X-files episodes.

See, to me it was the other way around - this felt like a return to old school Doctor Who, with Moffat's fairytale, cartoonish style being the aberration.

4 hours ago, John Potts said:

I did like that they actually allowed a character to die and actually stay dead (and buried!)… at least so far. And not just random Darwin Award winners who decide to drunkenly pick a fight with an interstellar bounty hunter, but somebody on Team Doctor, who died doing something heroic. I've been complaining that (increasingly) nobody dies in Who, or at least doesn't stay dead, so I'm hoping it doesn't get reversed later (even Pete Tyler's death in Father's Day got kinda Retconned later). Though I loved her question, "Is it bad that I'm enjoying this?" especially as Graham answered "Yes!"

A minor point, but I wonder why they chose Sheffield? I don't know whether it was filmed there, but wonder if it was out of deference to Jodie's own Yorkshire upbringing. Though if that was the case, why not make it Huddersfield where (according to Wiki) she was born? Is Sheffield a sexier choice?

Nearer to the Peaks, I would say. And I also appreciated that Grace's death was allowed to have impact and meaning - as much as I spent the entire episode whispering 'don't kill her, don't kill her' under my breath (and as much as I regret seeing a woman die just so that the men in her life can be freed up to go travelling without her), it really is long past time for the show to move past what has been an increasing obsession with retconning death. In the Classic era death of important characters/companions was used very sparingly because dead meant dead, no 'takesie backsies', as the Eleventh Doctor would say. It became a huge problem in the Moffat era, that 'shock deaths' never really had any meaning, because no one was allowed to stay dead for long. So as tragic as it is, I want Grace to stay dead now. She was brilliant, an easy character to love in the space of a single episode, her death had both impact and closure, with the funeral - please don't undermine that yet again by bringing her back, Show!

[theschnauzers]

10 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I get confused on whether the general  public knows the Doctor exists. It seems to change periodically.

The series did a reset after the End of Time so that knowledge of the Doctor became hidden as far as the present day. So neither Eleven or Twelve were well known, except perhaps for the 50th anniversary special.

 

John Potts, as far as I know, ever since US rights went to BBC America, and BBCA chose to spindly add running time to cover commercial breaks, nothing has been cut from Doctor Who episodes and specials. The scenes you mentioned aired on BBCA today and tonight  (We got clips from the simultaneous Doctor Who panel at the New York Comic Con featuring Jodie Whittaker as additional content for the evening rebroadcast, in addition to several rebroadcasts of the first episode over the remainder of the afternoon and evening.

The thing that surprised me was no opening credit sequence.

[justmehere]

3 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

"Tim Shaw"? Is that its real name?

Tzim Sha (per closed captions)

[Dobian]

7 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

The production values felt very cinematic to me, like I was watching a feature film rather than a television show. Maybe it was the Sheffield location shoot and the night filming, but it felt more real than Doctor Who usually does to me. I'll be interested to see if it continues with upcoming episodes or goes back to the show's more surreal style.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing when I watched it, it felt like a movie.  Also the way they told the story made it feel that way too with multiple scenes in the beginning where we don't even see the doctor to set up this story.  It was more of a movie style narrative.

[Kromm]

12 hours ago, LGraves65 said:

This episode needed a trypophobia TW. *shudder* 

Also, the Doctor becomes a female human and immediately starts apologizing for shit that's not her fault? Not cool, writers. Not cool.

Also, now The Doctor is a bad driver? Or at least a bad transporterer. 

[Llywela]

6 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I loved it. I loved Jodie Whittaker. It wasn't perfect but I see potential. It's not often I like the Doctor from the first episode. I couldn't get into Peter Capaldi. 

 

5 hours ago, LiveenLetLive said:

Same here, did not like Capaldi at all, too frail (he and I are the same age btw.)

I think Capaldi's big problem was that he was saddled with too much plot in his introduction - all that 'am I a good man?' nonsense, trying to make a character with centuries of heroism behind him suddenly more ambiguous, plus the early stages of the season were told almost exclusively through Clara's eyes, and she pretty much rejected him from the start because he wasn't the pretty boy Doctor she'd bonded with anymore, so all that allied with the decision to make him a pricklier, more irascible Doctor than we've seen in a few regenerations now, really hurt his character, made it difficult for the audience to bond with him. So I really appreciated about this episode that the new Doctor wasn't bogged down by ongoing companion drama or sudden inexplicable existential angst; it might have taken her a while to remember her name, but she was pretty clear on who she was from the start. Where Capaldi's intro was designed to make us wary of him, Whittaker's was designed to make us love her. That's the big difference.

5 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I still don't get how the Doctor survived a massive fall.

Especially given that a much smaller fall (from a similar height to Grace's fall, in fact) was what triggered the 4th Doctor's regeneration. But then again, the 10th Doctor had his hand chopped off shortly after regeneration, and he barely blinked, just got up and carried on fighting, and then re-grew the hand like it was nothing. So I'm going to handwave that Thirteen was cushioned by regeneration energy - her body wasn't damaged by the fall because it was still in the process of regenerating.

1 hour ago, justmehere said:

Tzim Sha (per closed captions)

Thank you. I heard it as Tem Shah, so I wasn't far off - love that the Doctor kept hearing it wrong and then stuck with that wrong name, just to wind him up further. Shades of the First Doctor getting Ian's name wrong all the time!

1 minute ago, Kromm said:

Also, now The Doctor is a bad driver? Or at least a bad transporterer. 

The Doctor has always been an unreliable driver, there's nothing new or gendered about that. Just ask Sarah Jane Smith!

[Kromm]

3 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

Some minor nitpicks- I don’t think anyone would refer to their beloved grandmother as the greatest woman “that I’ve ever met.” 

They would in a Doctor Who voice over. They're always filled with grandiose descriptions, and misdirects. In this case the misdirect being we're supposed to initially assume he's talking about The Doctor. 

8 minutes ago, Llywela said:

 

Especially given that a much smaller fall (from a similar height to Grace's fall, in fact) was what triggered the 4th Doctor's regeneration. But then again, the 10th Doctor had his hand chopped off shortly after regeneration, and he barely blinked, just got up and carried on fighting, and then re-grew the hand like it was nothing. So I'm going to handwave that Thirteen was cushioned by regeneration energy - her body wasn't damaged by the fall because it was still in the process of regenerating.

If Captain Marvel can survive falling out of a ship and going through a roof. The Doctor can! 

[John Potts]

56 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Especially given that a much smaller fall (from a similar height to Grace's fall, in fact) was what triggered the 4th Doctor's regeneration.

Never mind Tom Baker's fall from the Jodrell Bank Observatory, Colin Baker tripped and banged his head in the TARDIS to turn into Sylvester McCoy! Or rather, Sylvester McCoy in a blond afro tripped and turned into Sylvester McCoy without it, as Colin Baker didn't appear in that episode (which given the way his Doctor was treated by the BBC, I find it hard to blame him for not doing).

[Chaos Theory]

First off I LOVED The Moffatt era and still don’t understand the hate.  The Amy/Rory storyline is to this day my favorite and no one can tell me otherwise.

That being said this was a ok start.   I like the new Doctor but the companions do nothing for me.  Ironically the only one I liked turned out to be the red shirt.  Still will give them time to impress me.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[darkestboy]

A very promising opening episode. The main baddie was a bit weak but not enough to really take me out of the story.

I've had my doubts about a female Doctor but Jodie just nailed the role. She did everything she needed to do and then some. She really is the Doctor after this one.

The companions - I liked them all from the off. Ryan was the main focus and he was great. 

Grace and Graham's relationship was so sweet and even though the former's death was signposted, it still delivered a gut punch though.

Yasmin didn't get as much to do but she was great nonetheless though.

Liked the closing credits and list of guest stars but I really do hope the next episode gives us the TARDIS and opening credits, 8/10

[ae2]

Loving Jodie as The Doctor. She does the silly Doctor well, looking forward to seeing how she handles the serious Doctor.

The companions are wholly uninteresting and boring so far. They felt like character descriptions on a call sheet rather than real people. "20-something man who's struggled to do normal things because of dyspraxia, but also leaned on it as an excuse to not live up to expectations. 20-something woman who feels like she should be doing something more important, but is constantly beat down by the system. Late 50s cancer survivor who only discovered what it means to live after barely escaping death; will suffer heart wrenching personal tragedy in first episode."

I certainly don't hate any of them, and may well grow to like them, but the episode spent way too much time verbosely setting up the "character arcs" these companions will surely go through this season, when all I want is The Doctor. I also prefer my companions to be simply in it for the adventure, not because they're struggling in some way that their time in the TARDIS helps them overcome.

The pacing, structure, plot, and atmosphere of the episode were all great. Which is a nice change from some of Moffat's problems. I'm not so certain I'll enjoy the new feel and themes that the show will surely be forcing into every nook and cranny they can find. But most importantly it was fun.

The crane operator guy really stole the show. Why is HE not the companion? 

Also, sonic "Swiss army knife?" *puke*

[HouseofBeck]

We couldn't watch it when it aired, so I'm looking forward to it tonight. From the comments, seems on the whole that Jodie is rocking it. I've been approaching this season with such mixed feelings as I wished they'd created a strong, new female Time Lord (Time Lady, though that always seemed derivative as well) versus the lazy route of just spackling on gender--but it sounds like the approach is different enough to make it seem new and relevant while still having elements for established fans. 

15 hours ago, Florinaldo said:

 

Also why is that the Doctor's regenerations are generally so problematic? The other regeneration we have seen in the reboot, the General who turned into a Time Lady when the Doctor was on Gallifrey, adjusted immediately to his new body and personality, despite having just gone through the trauma of being shot by the Doctor. Are we to conclude that there is a specific problem with the Doctor's physiology or is is just a convenient and familiar plot device? Except for Six, I do not think the process was always so disorienting in the Classic series. And they all remembered that they were the Doctor, even Three who had his time travel knowledge mind-blocked by the Time Lords.

Hoping I'm recalling correctly--it was a mention in the novelization of "Destiny of the Daleks" (4th Doctor) that his regenerations had always been problematic, especially when contrasted to Romana's regen simply because she felt like it, and was either implied there or stated elsewhere in canon that he'd fled Gallifrey before completing the necessary schooling for a smooth transition.

[Chyromaniac]

4 hours ago, Kromm said:

They would in a Doctor Who voice over. They're always filled with grandiose descriptions, and misdirects. In this case the misdirect being we're supposed to initially assume he's talking about The Doctor. 

To be fair, this isn’t a problem exclusive to Doctor Who- but yes, that’s what annoyed me about it. On first viewing, we don’t know anything about Ryan anyway- I doubt it would have made much difference for him to say, “the greatest woman in my life,” or “that I know.”  We’re still going to assume he’s talking about the Doctor. Frankly, I don’t know if the framing device even adds anything to the story, or if it exists only to setup its own twist.

[benteen]

8 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

Some minor nitpicks- I don’t think anyone would refer to their beloved grandmother as the greatest woman “that I’ve ever met.” Also, I get that most of the show takes place in one night, but after that, it’s hard to tell how much time has passed. It almost feels like it should be just the next day- but if so, then they managed to arrange an entire memorial for a woman who had been dead for barely 12 hours. If not, then how long had Jodie been wearing Peter’s suit at that point, and where had she been sleeping/eating? No wonder Yaz said she needed a change of clothes...

LOL, yeah.  The Doctor's clothes must have smelled pretty rancid at that point though I can see the Doctor doing something like that.  Plus she had no money though that hasn't stopped The Doctor from "borrowing" clothes before.

I do always like how the old Doctor often gets stuck in the clothes of the new Doctor for their first story.

Agreed that the look of this episode was very cinematic.

I admit not being a fan of the gender switch either.  To me The Doctor is a man like Wonder Woman is a woman.  But at the end of the day, the most important thing to me is whomever they choose for the role can pull it off.  Based on one episode, it certainly looks like Jodie is the right choice to play the Doctor.

Edited October 8, 2018 by benteen

[Gummo]

Loved it. Pretty much sums it up. I. Loved. It.

Interesting that some found it darker than the Capaldi years; one of things I liked about it was a return to a lighter tone. Capaldi was all angst all the time, it was the dreariest 4 seasons of Who I've ever seen, and while a great actor, he was one of the worst doctors ever (thanks, Moffat). Moffat should have gone out on a high note after the Matt Smith/Amy & Rory saga, instead he dragged us all thru 4 years of the Anti-Doctor, making the main character rude, nasty, short-tempered, dull and with terrible judgment to boot. It didn't help that Clara was the worst companion in history. For 5 (6?) miserable years, Moffat kept telling us how special and amazing she was without ever once SHOWING us. No, we were just supposed to take his word that this annoying snappish woman was the most marvelous human who ever lived. 

It was awful.

Now, finally, we have a doctor who feels and sounds like the doctor, with humor, determination, high energy and confidence, and a posse of companions who all have wonderful possibilities.  Hopefully the return to more intimate stories will continue, too, there's only so many times the entire universe can be in peril before it's just as boring a cliche as any other. 

Looking forward to seeing the new credits. I also need to watch the BBCA rebroadcast because those asses didn't even include the end credits after the first airing.

[The Companion]

9 hours ago, ichbin said:

It was worth it just to see the look on my dyspraxic child's face when it was revealed that Ryan has dyspraxia.  Not something that comes up very often, if at all.

I wasn't a huge fan of the gender switch, but I think she's might win me over. Companions seem fine too. 

Apparently Chibnall's nephew has dyspraxia and they did some real work to make sure it was shown accurately.

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-10-07/doctor-who-series-11-what-is-dyspraxia-ryan-companion/

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, ae2 said:

The companions are wholly uninteresting and boring so far. They felt like character descriptions on a call sheet rather than real people. "20-something man who's struggled to do normal things because of dyspraxia, but also leaned on it as an excuse to not live up to expectations. 20-something woman who feels like she should be doing something more important, but is constantly beat down by the system. Late 50s cancer survivor who only discovered what it means to live after barely escaping death; will suffer heart wrenching personal tragedy in first episode."

I think by not catching the ages of the younger characters, you are misunderstanding them a little. Both Ryan and Yasmin are only 19 years old - Ryan's age explicitly stated, Yasmin's implied by having been in the same class in school - so they are just starting out in life, rather than having spent years treading water as you seem to be implying. Yas isn't beaten down by the system, she's young and ambitious, chomping at the bit, anxious to run before she can walk (as a probationary police constable, she's getting junior assignments because she is a junior who hasn't completed her training yet, not because she's downtrodden or held back). Ryan is struggling to get his foot on the ladder not just because of his dyspraxia but because the dyspraxia has affected his confidence (probably exacerbated by his mother's death and his father's absenteeism, all of which probably also contributed to his reluctance to bond with his grandmother's new husband, having been raised by her after losing his mum).

I dunno. They felt real enough to me - this was only their introduction, they will be fleshed out more as the season goes along. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Llywela

[benteen]

30 minutes ago, Gummo said:

Interesting that some found it darker than the Capaldi years; one of things I liked about it was a return to a lighter tone.

I've seen one person suggest its because Chibnall went back to the RTD days of racking up a big body count.  The body count did remind me of the RTD days as well and the fact that Grace wasn't brought back to life at the end shows that the Moffat era is over.  I didn't mind the body count as it raised the stakes and would also point out that the classic trilogy could rack up a pretty big one too.

[The Companion]

30 minutes ago, Gummo said:

Interesting that some found it darker than the Capaldi years; one of things I liked about it was a return to a lighter tone. Capaldi was all angst all the time, it was the dreariest 4 seasons of Who I've ever seen, and while a great actor, he was one of the worst doctors ever (thanks, Moffat). Moffat should have gone out on a high note after the Matt Smith/Amy & Rory saga, instead he dragged us all thru 4 years of the Anti-Doctor, making the main character rude, nasty, short-tempered, dull and with terrible judgment to boot. It didn't help that Clara was the worst companion in history. For 5 (6?) miserable years, Moffat kept telling us how special and amazing she was without ever once SHOWING us. No, we were just supposed to take his word that this annoying snappish woman was the most marvelous human who ever lived. 

It was awful.

Now, finally, we have a doctor who feels and sounds like the doctor, with humor, determination, high energy and confidence, and a posse of companions who all have wonderful possibilities.  Hopefully the return to more intimate stories will continue, too, there's only so many times the entire universe can be in peril before it's just as boring a cliche as any other. 

Looking forward to seeing the new credits. I also need to watch the BBCA rebroadcast because those asses didn't even include the end credits after the first airing.

I ended up liking Capaldi with Bill and Nardole, and thought he killed it in Heaven Sent where he carried the entire episode solo (and it probably goes without saying since I love River, but he was also fabulous with AK in The Husbands of River Song). In retrospect, Clara was the problem for me for reasons I still can't quite put my finger on. She just didn't work and I wish she had been given an ending and replaced with Bill and Nardole sooner. 

My feeling on 12 is that some angst was well-placed. His entire view of himself was upended in the Day of the Doctor and he had lived out his years expecting to die only to get a surprise reprieve. I think there was a touch of survivor's guilt, a bit of "what now?" with some self-reflection now that he realizes he didn't do the act for which he spent hundreds of years feeling guilty.

[ae2]

9 minutes ago, Llywela said:

I think by not catching the ages of the younger characters, you are misunderstanding them a little. Both Ryan and Yasmin are only 19 years old - Ryan's age explicitly stated, Yasmin's implied by having been in the same class in school - so they are just starting out in life, rather than having spent years treading water as you seem to be implying

Sorry, I was going by both their actor's ages which are a good percentage older than 19. Nor did I think they looked 19. Either way my point remains. And I do realize this is essentially a pilot episode so I'm hoping they grow on me, but they were completely outshined in this episode by the crane operator, who had 1/10th the screen time. (I'm terrible at picking up names!)

[Mabinogia]

3 minutes ago, The Companion said:

In retrospect, Clara was the problem for me for reasons I still can't quite put my finger on. She just didn't work and I wish she had been given an ending and replaced with Bill and Nardole sooner. 

I agree. I LOVED Capaldi's Doctor. Bill, Nardole and Twelve are my second favorite combo (Ten and Donna will always win that race for me) but Clara was insufferable for me. Every time she pulled that "silly old man" shit I wanted to punch her in the face. But that's probably because I already hated her at this point. And I think the reason is that we were constantly being told how very very special she was. The Impossible Girl is probably the single worst storyline they ever did on this show. It made Dr Who all about Clara. The Doctor became a side character in the Impossible Girl's story. The Doctor should always be the most clever and most interesting character on the show. 

The greatest thing about Moffitt finally leaving is that it seems the days of "the very specialist companion ever in the history of all the universe" might finally be over.

I am very excited about the multiple companions for several reasons, one of which is, that with three, it is less likely that any one of them is the most important human ever to exist. They are just people, like Donna was, like Martha. I like that they have familiarity with each other but aren't necessarily close. It allows for some growth and story telling potential. I found all three to be interesting characters with great promise. Ryan did seem to be the main focus, which makes sense given he is the one who is connected to the other two, who don't know each other. I assume that Yaz and Graham will get centric episodes as well. All three actors are strong and charismatic. All three characters have potential. 

I, for one, am glad crane guy isn't going to be around. He's the type of character that works best in very small doses. He'd become a Clara for me, just too precious for his own good. If Chibnall learned nothing else from Moffitt's run I hope it is that the Companions should not outshine the Doctor on a show called Doctor Who. 

[rogvortex58]

The loss of Grace was quite the blow for everyone involved.

It was good of the doctor to stay with them during the whole thing.

[jah1986]

I really enjoyed it.  I think Jodie Whitaker is going to be a good Doctor.  I thought the episode was dark in the sense that I couldn't see a lot of what was going on, I kept wishing for daytime action just so I could see.  I started feeling bad when I realized that I hadn't seen Nan (Grace) in any of the previews, too bad, I liked her character a lot.

I really missed the TARDIS, strange thing to miss but I did and I hope we get her back soon.

[Eulipian 5k]

There was a bit of "The Doctor's Wife" in JW. Especially when she couldn't get the words " I'm ...." out. Mr Toothface  emerging out of the giant Hershey's kiss was the same way the Terminator unfolded from his egg/ball of sparks from the future. I don't know why someone would truck that meteor/kiss to their warehouse and only have a crowbar on hand to deal with any threats.

I hope we don't get any temporary forests in London or winged creatures flying out of the moon into the vacuum of space this time around.

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

The greatest thing about Moffitt finally leaving is that it seems the days of "the very specialist companion ever in the history of all the universe" might finally be over.

I am very excited about the multiple companions for several reasons, one of which is, that with three, it is less likely that any one of them is the most important human ever to exist. They are just people, like Donna was, like Martha. I like that they have familiarity with each other but aren't necessarily close. It allows for some growth and story telling potential. I found all three to be interesting characters with great promise. Ryan did seem to be the main focus, which makes sense given he is the one who is connected to the other two, who don't know each other. I assume that Yaz and Graham will get centric episodes as well. All three actors are strong and charismatic. All three characters have potential. 

That was also an RTD thing and applies to Martha (walked the Earth by herself for a year to rally the people while the Doctor was locked up) and Donna (only human to become part Time Lord) as well.  Hopefully none of the new folks end up saving the universe while the Doctor twiddles her thumbs and provides absolutely no help.

[MsChicklet]

Quote

Graham and Grace were really sweet.  I was very sad at the beginning when I realized that he was the third companion because I knew that meant something would happen to Grace.  I wish they could have found a way around that.

I wish it had been something where she was grievously injured in some way, so couldn't be a companion, but was someone who could be a support for the Doctor and companions from time to time. 

I think the Doctor stayed for a few reasons. First, no way to leave without her TARDIS. Also, she's still settling into herself, so staying with the few people she knows while she does that makes sense.

Quote

The greatest thing about Moffitt finally leaving is that it seems the days of "the very specialist companion ever in the history of all the universe" might finally be over.

Yes, this. No more Manic Pixie Dream Companions.

What's nice about the three companions is that there are more viewpoints, more opportunities to see things from different perspectives.

[benteen]

36 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I ended up liking Capaldi with Bill and Nardole, and thought he killed it in Heaven Sent where he carried the entire episode solo (and it probably goes without saying since I love River, but he was also fabulous with AK in The Husbands of River Song). In retrospect, Clara was the problem for me for reasons I still can't quite put my finger on. She just didn't work and I wish she had been given an ending and replaced with Bill and Nardole sooner. 

My feeling on 12 is that some angst was well-placed. His entire view of himself was upended in the Day of the Doctor and he had lived out his years expecting to die only to get a surprise reprieve. I think there was a touch of survivor's guilt, a bit of "what now?" with some self-reflection now that he realizes he didn't do the act for which he spent hundreds of years feeling guilty.

I think Capaldi needed his own companion and that's what Bill (and Nardole) provided for him.  I wish that he also would have had a different showrunner to work with too.  I'm a big fan of Jenna Coleman but Clara and 12 brought out the worst in each other.  Even Moffat realized it.

I like the new dynamic with these companions so far.  As I said before, I like that Yasmin is a cop as we've never had a companion who was a cop before and that brings a unique skill set to the Tardis crew.

[Llywela]

1 minute ago, MsChicklet said:

What's nice about the three companions is that there are more viewpoints, more opportunities to see things from different perspectives.

Yes, this - I always enjoy the crowded TARDIS eras in the Classic series, because they are so versatile. Multiple companions means you get varied group dynamics to explore, and makes it easier to run sub-plots without having to send both Doctor and solo companion off on their own - you can split the group in a  variety of different ways, so that each sub-plot also becomes an opportunity to explore different relationships among the characters, keeps things fresh and interesting. Doctor plus solo companion always runs the risk of becoming too co-dependent and intense, which has been way overdone in recent years.

21 minutes ago, rogvortex58 said:

It was good of the doctor to stay with them during the whole thing.

It was good of her to stay and offer a bit of support, but she also had literally nowhere else to go. She'd bonded with these people during the adventure, so it seems only natural that she'd stick with them while trying to figure out how to retrieve her TARDIS.

[Mabinogia]

11 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

That was also an RTD thing and applies to Martha (walked the Earth by herself for a year to rally the people while the Doctor was locked up) and Donna (only human to become part Time Lord) as well.  Hopefully none of the new folks end up saving the universe while the Doctor twiddles her thumbs and provides absolutely no help.

True, but at least the started as normal people. Clara "the Impossible Girl" and Amy "The Girl Who Waited" were saddled with those stupid names they had to live up to. 

 

2 minutes ago, benteen said:

As I said before, I like that Yasmin is a cop as we've never had a companion who was a cop before and that brings a unique skill set to the Tardis crew.

Yes, when she's able to fight and run and do these actiony things, it will make sense because she was trained for action. I feel like each of the three will have certain skillsets they can bring. One of my favorite scene's was when 13 wanted to know if there were any other strange things that night, each of the three had a different place to look. Yaz went to the precinct to find out if there had been any official police reports, Ryan went online, to see if social media was abuzz and Graham went to his fellow bus drivers to get the "word on the street". They each sprang into action in the way that fit who they were. It was a great quick scene that showed how they were each going to be of value and were ready to help in the way they were able. 

They gave us just enough in the first episode to get an idea who these people are without the whole episode being one big info dump. I will miss Grace, but I also hope she is most sincerely dead because death has to mean something in order for me to be invested in character deaths. When I can't trust that someone's death is going to stick, I can't really get invested in the story. 

I would, however, be okay with them pulling a Bill's mum type thing were, when things are bad, Ryan or Graham "talk" to Grace as a way to cope and/or get advice. Which would actually fit with the Doctor's saying that she keeps her dead family with her. I really liked the actress and the character, so if she showed up as a memory or a "ghost" I wouldn't complain. I just don't want her to be magicked back to life. 

[clack]

So, this first episode was fine. And maybe fine was good enough when DW was one of only a handful of sci-fi shows on TV. But now that there are dozens, being average isn't going to keep me watching.

The show needs original SF concepts. Yet another 'Predator' rip-off isn't going to cut it, especially when the concept wasn't fully developed. Why was the alien hunting humans and not, say, grizzly bears? Surely killing some random terrified crane operator is not that big of an accomplishment? Why travel millions of miles for such easy game?

The show also needs compelling characters involved in compelling relationships. Is the relationship between a somewhat estranged step-grandson and grandfather interesting enough to carry multiple episodes? Does having poor balance provide a gripping character arc?

[Bruinsfan]

6 hours ago, John Potts said:

Never mind Tom Baker's fall from the Jodrell Bank Observatory, Colin Baker tripped and banged his head in the TARDIS to turn into Sylvester McCoy! Or rather, Sylvester McCoy in a blond afro tripped and turned into Sylvester McCoy without it, as Colin Baker didn't appear in that episode (which given the way his Doctor was treated by the BBC, I find it hard to blame him for not doing).

I think it was the collective ill will of viewers that did the sixth Doctor in, rather than the fall and bump on the head.

 

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I agree. I LOVED Capaldi's Doctor. Bill, Nardole and Twelve are my second favorite combo (Ten and Donna will always win that race for me) but Clara was insufferable for me. Every time she pulled that "silly old man" shit I wanted to punch her in the face. But that's probably because I already hated her at this point. And I think the reason is that we were constantly being told how very very special she was. The Impossible Girl is probably the single worst storyline they ever did on this show. It made Dr Who all about Clara. The Doctor became a side character in the Impossible Girl's story. The Doctor should always be the most clever and most interesting character on the show.

Yeah, Clara was the companion that made me yearn for Colin Baker's Doctor with his strangle-first-and-ask-questions-later approach, and ultimate solution of pawning the annoying hitchhiker off on Prince Vultan.

[MsChicklet]

2 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

The Impossible Girl is probably the single worst storyline they ever did on this show.

THIS.

Clara became the Companion Who Ate the Show. If she'd just been a schoolteacher, with students and a family and friends, she would have been more interesting.

[snarktini]

Yay! I'm back in. 

I had to stop watching during Capaldi's run -- I had begun truly hating the show. Adding Bill didn't help one bit. I tend to think it was the Twelve character that just didn't work for me, but maybe it was the storytelling. Doesn't matter, I suppose. For a new male Doctor I may not have tried again, but I was curious to see this character and I like her a lot.

I like the companions, too! Because I had checked out I knew absolutely nothing about the new companions so for me it unfolded nicely. (And I didn't foresee that Grace was red-shirted). When we met Ryan, he was clearly the new companion. Great, he seems fine. Then we met Yas and she clicked into place and I thought, awesome, two companions! I like when there are two. They'll be a good pair. Then after Grace dies and Graham started telling his story I sensed potential companion and got confused for a moment -- was he actually the new companion?! A trio didn't occur to me. So it was helpful not to know what was coming. It was nice to be surprised.

The alien story itself was lame, but they often are. :)

[Mabinogia]

12 minutes ago, snarktini said:

I like the companions, too! Because I had checked out I knew absolutely nothing about the new companions so for me it unfolded nicely. (And I didn't foresee that Grace was red-shirted). When we met Ryan, he was clearly the new companion. Great, he seems fine. Then we met Yas and she clicked into place and I thought, awesome, two companions! I like when there are two. They'll be a good pair. Then after Grace dies and Graham started telling his story I sensed potential companion and got confused for a moment -- was he actually the new companion?! A trio didn't occur to me. So it was helpful not to know what was coming. It was nice to be surprised.

The alien story itself was lame, but they often are. :)

Thank you for sharing your experience. I knew who the companions were going to be so I watched knowing how it was going to pan out. I wondered how it would have felt if I'd not known. Grace's death would have been even more painful I think. 

And yeah, other than the gross out of the teeth on his face, the alien was lame. But I don't mind. I don't watch this show for the bad guys. I watch it for the good guys, for the Doctor and the companions and I am 100% sold on this group so the bad guys are just plot devices for me. I was just happy his goal was pretty small. No jumping into the entire universe is under attack for reasons that are too convoluted for our little human minds to comprehend, just go with it, the show runners thought the idea would be cool but couldn't be bothered to really think it through. (well, that sentence got away from me). I'm curious though if he'll be back, or someone else from his race, since he didn't really die, and it doesn't seem like the Doctor did anything to prevent his kind from coming back, so it would make sense for this particular alien race to come back at some point. 

[elle]

4 hours ago, benteen said:

I do always like how the old Doctor often gets stuck in the clothes of the new Doctor for their first story.

It was on the second viewing watching everyone run around that I finally clued into the issue of shoes!  All of the Doctors seem to be able to run around in shoes that must be either too big or too small for them.

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

Yes, when she's able to fight and run and do these actiony things, it will make sense because she was trained for action. I feel like each of the three will have certain skillsets they can bring. One of my favorite scene's was when 13 wanted to know if there were any other strange things that night, each of the three had a different place to look. Yaz went to the precinct to find out if there had been any official police reports, Ryan went online, to see if social media was abuzz and Graham went to his fellow bus drivers to get the "word on the street". They each sprang into action in the way that fit who they were. It was a great quick scene that showed how they were each going to be of value and were ready to help in the way they were able. 

And Nan went to check with her nurses' group on something.  I like that all of them were active, each with their own strengths as it were but working all together as a team.

I found it both strange and annoying during the interviews after the show how some people were gushing about how women were now in the forefront pointing how Nan was rushing forward to the danger as if this was a new thing in the show.  I seem to recall many strong female characters in Doctor Who.  What are they talking about?

2 hours ago, The Companion said:

I ended up liking Capaldi with Bill and Nardole, and thought he killed it in Heaven Sent where he carried the entire episode solo (and it probably goes without saying since I love River, but he was also fabulous with AK in The Husbands of River Song). In retrospect, Clara was the problem for me for reasons I still can't quite put my finger on. She just didn't work and I wish she had been given an ending and replaced with Bill and Nardole sooner. 

My feeling on 12 is that some angst was well-placed. His entire view of himself was upended in the Day of the Doctor and he had lived out his years expecting to die only to get a surprise reprieve. I think there was a touch of survivor's guilt, a bit of "what now?" with some self-reflection now that he realizes he didn't do the act for which he spent hundreds of years feeling guilty.

Good analysis of Twelve.  As many have said, they would have been better served if they had given him new companions.  I hated the Eleven to Twelve regeneration episode so much I did not watch most of those episodes. (do not get me started on the ones I did see)  This is all to say that on this most recent marathon, I caught some of the Nardole and Bill/Nardole episodes and actually found myself warming up to Twelve, not completely, but enough to say not as so bad to bad they didn't start with this.

2 hours ago, benteen said:

I like that Yasmin is a cop as we've never had a companion who was a cop before and that brings a unique skill set to the Tardis crew.

Depending on how you feel about the movies, the Doctor did have a previous companion who was a cop in Daleks' Invasion Earth 2150 A.D. .  That character, Tom, was played by Bernard Cribbins. We probably know him better as Donna's granddad Wilfred.