S10.E16: Guess Who's Arguing at Dinner?

[Mozelle]

16 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

Can’t stand that Carole said Lu shouldn’t say anything about anyone else’s drinking because she just got out of rehab!! Why the hell not??? If anyone can see what an out-of-control drunk is, it’s someone who came out the other side! So because Lu was in rehab, she has no right to comment on an obvious problem in front of her? 

And while I believe Bethenny played a huge part in their breakup, Carole is no angel. I saw gaslighting. I saw her fishing after bribing Sonja, and not listening to Sonja’s explanation of Bethenny’s side. I saw Carole very cooly hug Bethenny after Bethenny broke down and said she loved her. How can that not move you if you used to have a close relationship with this person? At least be sad with them that a dear friendship is over....I don’t know..such toxic people, of course it wouldn’t last.

Dorinda was disgusting last night. What a sad, ugly, sloppy mess. Her eyes full of misplaced anger alternating with regret, her lipstick smears, the drool. I would be horrified if that was my mother in tv. I AM horrified. She lost me. 

Well, given that LuAnn is back in rehab (whether because she actually had some sort of episode that put her back in there or because she wanted to avoid questions at the reunion taping about her kids and ex-husband suing her) a mere six months after leaving, it seems to me that she really doesn't have any special insight about Dorinda's drinking that would grant her the ability to comment. 

As for Carole, how should she have expressed that she was moved by Bethenny's (dry-eyed) crying? What is the appropriate thing to do? I keep seeing that Carole was gaslighting, which isn't the case from my vantage point, but I'm also very curious about what Carole literally should have done that would have been satisfactory? Should she have started (dry) crying and blubbering? Put Bethenny in her lap and rock her, while cooing in her ear? Prostrate herself before Bethenny? How does one show that they are moved?

[TipseyGirl]

12 hours ago, tinaw said:

Food looks great but the company is a little much

The Real Housewives - ruining other people's dining experience since 2006

[RedDelicious]

27 minutes ago, noveltylibrary said:

Sure looked sexy though, she lost weight quickly by not drinking..it works, I did too.

That's good advice, I need to do that too! Le sigh. So hard in the summertime, but you're right.

[Keywestclubkid]

1 minute ago, laprin said:

The conversation with Carole and Bethenny was just painful.  They are so over each other, they should just move on and stop torturing those around them. This may be one of their least enjoyable group vacations ever.   

I totally get Carole's confusion tho They literately had a sit down to hash all this same shit out like 4 eps ago why the fuck is she digging it up again? like what the fuck was with that whole thing then? the hugging and saying we are moving on with Betheney was what? Move the flock on already

[njbchlover]

5 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

So all of Bethenny's histrionics were her coming down hard off of adderall, yeah?

I don't know about that, but when she was asking the street vendor if he had any Xanax, or other drugs, I actually cringed a bit, because  1. - She's in a foreign country that has a reputation for producing illegal drugs, and  2.  She really could have put her life in some kind of danger asking for something like that, even in jest.  (Another bad joke for Bethenny)

[SuprSuprElevated]

Good point.

[RHJunkie]

Carole and Bethenny have both been catty behind each other's back and neither one can pinpoint where things really unraveled but both insist that it was the other person that 'changed' first. At the end of the day,  a good portion of their drama is focused on them bickering on the details and sequence of events of what transpired and in the process, both women are invalidating each others feelings as if to say 'if you feel hurt that's not my problem because I didn't do anything'. Perception is a powerful thing and it doesn't mean that we should be apologizing for things that people perceive without real cause, but it does mean that for a friend, we can take the time to acknowledge their feelings and provide some perspective that clarifies no malicious intent. While I do think that some of Bethenny's antics were for attention, I do think that she was having an emotional breakdown on this trip. She should have never gone.

I laughed when Carole was explaining to Sonja that she hasn't had much time for Bethenny because she's been busy doing stuff and it seemed liked she stumbled for a moment with trying to give an example of what 'stuff' she was doing and then gave up on trying, lol.

That dinner was a shit show and you know it's true when Ramona is the voice of reason at the table. Damn, so much arguing and back and forth going on. Ramona often goes too far by saying too much. I thought she showed some restraint by trying to help the situation between Luann and Dorinda but didn't overstep and create an even bigger mess.

Drunk Dorinda going at it. I like the drunk Dorinda that yells 'clip' at people, not the drunk Dorinda that goes in nasty on people because each time it happens (and it becomes more frequent), she's not only aggressive but she's dangerous. She stabs herself, she breaks things...I do like Dorinda and I think that for the most part she is a genuine friend so I don't say any of this with judgment, but more out of concern and hope that she's honest with herself and gets herself help. Even when drunk, hearing a friend characterize you the way Dorinda did with Luann is hurtful, I don't care who you are.

That dinner was a great example of why I can enjoy Tinsley one minute and then want her to shut the fuck up the next. I laughed at her comment about her having a mugshot too so who cares. But I was annoyed with how she stuck up for Dorinda and mischaracterized what happened between Dorinda and Luann. Every single person there knew that Dorinda was drunk. Why was Ramona and Sonja of all people the two level headed ones that recognized what was going on at that table and tried to simmer Dorinda's unfounded rage while Tinsley was fanning the flames? Luann's comment had nothing to do with judging Dorinda for being drunk, it was giving Dorinda the heads up that she was getting to the point of aggressive and no, I don't see it as hypocritical or holier than thou for Luann to be the one to point that out. Luann fucked up big time, but outside of her arrest, Luann has never made herself out to be an aggressive or mean drunk. Her typical level of drunk is 'let's paint this town red and sleep with whoever we want to'. Dare I say, I felt bad for Luann when she said 'that's what she really thinks of me' and she started crying. No matter how awful any of these women are, Luann in that moment seemed like someone who felt genuinely betrayed by someone who she thought was a friend but realizes may be someone who simply harbours a lot of negative opinions about her.

Can't wait for the boat episode to see what really happened but I suspect that they're going to make the boat stuff the end of the episode with a continuation in the following episode.

[SuprSuprElevated]

3 hours ago, esco1822 said:

And why did she call Dennis for a plane? This is a woman who arranged for countless private jets to deliver supplies to devastated areas of Puerto Rico and Houston. She can’t get her own plane? She could have snapped her fingers and had one.  She was never leaving. She didn’t want a plane, she wanted sympathy. She wanted attention. She wanted to play they victim. 

It was a way of letting Dennis know of her torture, while on camera.  Two ?, one ?.

[cheewhiz]

11 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

For Sonja - 

This meme has been getting a workout on PTV lately.

We actually have a company named Camel Towing in my city!

[VedaPierce]

24 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

Well, given that LuAnn is back in rehab (whether because she actually had some sort of episode that put her back in there or because she wanted to avoid questions at the reunion taping about her kids and ex-husband suing her) a mere six months after leaving, it seems to me that she really doesn't have any special insight about Dorinda's drinking that would grant her the ability to comment. 

As for Carole, how should she have expressed that she was moved by Bethenny's (dry-eyed) crying? What is the appropriate thing to do? I keep seeing that Carole was gaslighting, which isn't the case from my vantage point, but I'm also very curious about what Carole literally should have done that would have been satisfactory? Should she have started (dry) crying and blubbering? Put Bethenny in her lap and rock her, while cooing in her ear? Prostrate herself before Bethenny? How does one show that they are moved?

Well I’m not blindly defending either of them because I think both of them look bad for different reasons, but to me, Carole looked cold at dinner. No, I don’t expect her to prostrate herself or hold her in her lap and rock her, but does it have to be so extreme? Can she just show a little sadness in the obvious loss of a friendship that is happening in front of her? Dry or not, Bethenny was in obvious distress over this, I don’t believe she was faking her emotions-she’s no She-devil, Tamra Judge-and it looked off to me, the way Carole reacted. I was hoping for a little sweetness and a nice moment for both of them, when they could both hug it out and be friends again, I was rooting for that—and I don’t really like either of them, but I guess it’s just in my makeup to want people to rise above their grievances. I like seeing that between people who were obviously close friends once. I always teach my daughter not to throw away a friend, if you liked them once, there’s probably good worth saving. I saw a lot of anger still in Carole. She’s still pissed about something. Plus she does have an inherent coldness to her that I never really noticed that much before...

also, I don’t think lu or anyone needs any special insight to see that Dorinda is an alcoholic. She is an angry, mean drunk. It doesn’t matter that lu is back in rehab. She has a right to comment like anybody else. Especially since Dorinda’s vile rants were actually directed AT her. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by VedaPierce

[TheFinalRose]

8 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

I saw Carole very cooly hug Bethenny after Bethenny broke down and said she loved her. How can that not move you if you used to have a close relationship with this person?

Carol's words and actions don't match. Yeah, Bethenney's over the top emotional but Carol is like a wax figure moving through the scenes and saying her lines but I get zero feeling out of her. The thing is, Carol went all in with Bethenney knowing how caustic and cutting she could be. All in. Best buds.  And now, she's like, nah. Of course Bethenney is hurt!!!

Could be it's easier for Carol to keep up her cool facade with Tinz because she doesn't know as much as Beth does about Adam. But Carol's iced out Bethenney; you can feel that shift if you're on the receiving end of it and all Carol's denying it won't change how sad it makes Bethenney. Geez, I can feel it through my TV. All Carol needs to do is invite Beth in .... make some effort to ensure Beth doesn't feel like a third wheel with Tinz around. Sucks for Carol though to have to make an effort, I guess, because she's just not doing it. 

I think she won't confront Bethenney about what's truly wrong because it has something to do with Adam and Carol's gotta keep that cool veneer going about him. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

2 minutes ago, cheewhiz said:

We actually have a company named Camel Towing in my city!

No way!  omg  lol

[b2H]

2 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Bethenny is a miserable mess and I pity her child. Her money allows her to escape the consequences of a lot of her actions.

One could look at this either way, but the judge may be watching and this is evidence of B not being a stable parent.  She didn't think that far ahead, I guess.

[annewithaneee]

I'm not sure I've ever cried at the Housewives, but there was something so genuinely sad about Luann breaking down and saying "that's what she really thinks of me" that kicked me right in the feels. Dorinda was absolutely brutal.

Tinsley continues to be The Worst in a way that I find very funny. Of course she had to take the very very clearly wrong side in Dorinda vs Luann. And of course she had to pipe up "I have a mugshot too!!!!" -- that woman stopped maturing or changing her hair at like sixteen, and I love hating her for it.

Bethenny is a neurotic beast of a woman, but I understand and to some (pretty small) degree identify with her monstrousness. I get how she has to walk away, and the panic attacks, and the "I've been redlining myself emotionally for several weeks/months/years/decades and now I'm just going to be a MESS now" phenomenon. I'm not on Carole's level at all. She's a geriatric Cool Girl to me, and has been since she rode on Adam's handlebars and got high at a ping pong bar. She wants to be above everything, and surely seems like she would prefer hanging out with men and proving how game she is. Her statement on quitting just cemented that for me. She's not here for your frenemies and bitchiness, she's a serious person who is above the thing she's been doing for several years. Bye bitch.

[TV Diva Queen]

I can't be the only one who thought that Dorinda met up with a local Colombian and was as high AF in the "joker" scenes.  

[SweetieDarling]

1 hour ago, bosawks said:

I don't think so, she's the red herring, it'd be Tinsley, quiet and dumb.

Surprise she's the clever murderer!

Or Ramona because, oh, of course, it'd have to be Ramona...

With the poison(ed) fish?

[BodhiGurl]

Agree with much that has been posted - my add'l 2 cents, IMO - Carole's denial of changing is humorous. She has changed. Change isn't a bad thing. But she. has. changed. I do maintain she was a mean girl from the jump, she was just better at keeping it at bay - all the negative comments about Lu back in the day - long before Adam was even a blip on the radar. She's just amped it up. She can break off a friendship without being cold - regardless of how much of a neurotic mess BF is. Rise above it Carole! I do also think she used the earrings gift as a way to try to get intel out of Sonja but Sonja wasn't complying - doesn't mean she didn't give all the other gals earrings... but yeah. I do wish she would have just gone directly to BF from the jump about the fractured friendship, however, it wouldn't make for good reality tv now would it - ha ha... nor would CR have much of a storyline beyond #TheMarathon. Sigh. I thought Dorinda was ridiculous - but that's Drunk Dorinda! I'm betting if she returns next season it's going to be her redemption season - getting off the hooch/getting healthier... 

[Mozelle]

24 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

Well I’m not blindly defending either of them because I think both of them look bad for different reasons, but to me, Carole looked cold at dinner. No, I don’t expect her to prostrate herself or hold her in her lap and rock her, but does it have to be so extreme? Can she just show a little sadness in the obvious loss of a friendship that is happening in front of her? Dry or not, Bethenny was in obvious distress over this, I don’t believe she was faking her emotions-she’s no She-devil, Tamra Judge-and it looked off to me, the way Carole reacted. I was hoping for a little sweetness and a nice moment for both of them, when they could both hug it out and be friends again, I was rooting for that—and I don’t really like either of them, but I guess it’s just in my makeup to want people to rise above their grievances. I like seeing that between people who were obviously close friends once. I always teach my daughter not to throw away a friend, if you liked them once, there’s probably good worth saving. I saw a lot of anger still in Carole. She’s still pissed about something. Plus she does have an inherent coldness to her that I never really noticed that much before...

also, I don’t think lu or anyone needs any special insight to see that Dorinda is an alcoholic. She is an angry, mean drunk. It doesn’t matter that lu is back in rehab. She has a right to comment like anybody else. Especially since Dorinda’s vile rants were actually directed AT her. 

Carole bent forward and told Bethenny that she does still love her. Like, I'm trying to figure out what more Carole should have done to express sadness. Should her voice have broken as she told Bethenny she does still love her? When the two women sat down at dinner the month before, they hugged it out even though Carole has said she's not a hugger. I think there are expectations being put on Carole to express physically some sadness over the deterioration of their friendship, despite the fact that Carole is not a physically demonstrative person. The performance of sadness is being weighted heavily here. 

And yes, Dorinda is a mean drunk. I've not much cared for her since her debut season. That said, LuAnn really doesn't have a leg to stand on about Dorinda starting when LuAnn herself gets sloshed. 

[Pop Tart]

12 minutes ago, annewithaneee said:

Tinsley continues to be The Worst in a way that I find very funny. Of course she had to take the very very clearly wrong side in Dorinda vs Luann. And of course she had to pipe up "I have a mugshot too!!!!" -- that woman stopped maturing or changing her hair at like sixteen, and I love hating her for it.

Yeah, there hasn't been much comment on Tinsley's attitude in the car on the way back from the restaurant. Even though she hadn't actually heard what went on with Dor and Lu. She was going in on Luanne about how she had no room to judge, even when some of what Dorinda said (mugshot, convict, etc.) was conveyed to her she was still all about how Luanne was in the wrong. And the expression on her face was not one of someone just trying to keep Dorinda calm.

She seems to have a special level of dislike for Lu and I can't quite figure what is prompting it. Did it start because she was best buds with Carole and when they started hanging out Carole was still on the major outs with Lu? Possible. I am starting to cotton to the idea that's mostly been said jokingly, that she's jealous that Lu got arrested in Palm Beach too? I saw a new clip of her when she must have been on WWHL recently. I say recently because it was a conversation about Lu going back to rehab so had to be in the last week or so. And in that clip she starts with "I was so proud of her for everything" but then the next words out of her mouth are "I had a mugshot in Palm Beach, too". So I think she's got some weird competitive feelings towards Lu because of that. 

With the Carole/Bethenny fight at dinner I thought it was interesting when Carole once again insisted that she didn't respond to B's texts (while Carole was in California I think) because it was "a lot".  And Bethenny insisted all she did was text her one thing, like "I'm sorry" or words to that effect. Bethenny was shouting at this point, prove it, show her all the texts that Bethenny sent her that were "a lot". Carole didn't have the receipts. She started scrolling through her texts but had nothing to show B or us about all that bombardment she claimed. 

[VedaPierce]

7 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

Carole bent forward and told Bethenny that she does still love her. Like, I'm trying to figure out what more Carole should have done to express sadness. Should her voice have broken as she told Bethenny she does still love her? When the two women sat down at dinner the month before, they hugged it out even though Carole has said she's not a hugger. I think there are expectations being put on Carole to express physically some sadness over the deterioration of their friendship, despite the fact that Carole is not a physically demonstrative person. The performance of sadness is being weighted heavily here. 

And yes, Dorinda is a mean drunk. I've not much cared for her since her debut season. That said, LuAnn really doesn't have a leg to stand on about Dorinda starting when LuAnn herself gets sloshed. 

Lu is not allowed to say Dorinda had one too many drinks and is getting mean and sloppy, when Dorinda has one too many drinks and gets mean and sloppy? 

[janie2002]

3 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

Yeah, there hasn't been much comment on Tinsley's attitude in the car on the way back from the restaurant. Even though she hadn't actually heard what went on with Dor and Lu. She was going in on Luanne about how she had no room to judge, even when some of what Dorinda said (mugshot, convict, etc.) was conveyed to her she was still all about how Luanne was in the wrong. And the expression on her face was not one of someone just trying to keep Dorinda calm.

She seems to have a special level of dislike for Lu and I can't quite figure what is prompting it. Did it start because she was best buds with Carole and when they started hanging out Carole was still on the major outs with Lu? Possible. I am starting to cotton to the idea that's mostly been said jokingly, that she's jealous that Lu got arrested in Palm Beach too? I saw a new clip of her when she must have been on WWHL recently. I say recently because it was a conversation about Lu going back to rehab so had to be in the last week or so. And in that clip she starts with "I was so proud of her for everything" but then the next words out of her mouth are "I had a mugshot in Palm Beach, too". So I think she's got some weird competitive feelings towards Lu because of that. 

With the Carole/Bethenny fight at dinner I thought it was interesting when Carole once again insisted that she didn't respond to B's texts (while Carole was in California I think) because it was "a lot".  And Bethenny insisted all she did was text her one thing, like "I'm sorry" or words to that effect. Bethenny was shouting at this point, prove it, show her all the texts that Bethenny sent her that were "a lot". Carole didn't have the receipts. She started scrolling through her texts but had nothing to show B or us about all that bombardment she claimed. 

she read the text last time at dinner, B said something rude and then said I miss you. So Carole said it was too much. Like how are you going to be mean then say you miss me.  B has selective memory.

 

Also quick note I thought it was rich that B was the one comforting Luann about the things Dorinda said, when just last year B slut shamed her and called her worse.

[tveyeonyou]

13 hours ago, Martinigirl said:

I wonder if Carole is leaving because  Eve was found out? It better come out at the reunion!!!!

Who is Eve and what was found out? I have to admit I kinda space out when Carole is on so maybe I just missed something. TIA!

[Mozelle]

2 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

Lu is not allowed to say Dorinda had one too many drinks and is getting mean and sloppy, when Dorinda has one too many drinks and gets mean and sloppy? 

No, not when LuAnn literally got drunk and was hauled into the back of a police car, where she threatened to kill an officer if they didn't take the cuffs off lol. LuAnn doesn't have a leg to stand on...since she fell into some bushes drunk as a skunk the year prior. 

[teapot]

11 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

Lu is not allowed to say Dorinda had one too many drinks and is getting mean and sloppy, when Dorinda has one too many drinks and gets mean and sloppy? 

I think it kind of came out of nowhere.  Dorinda was basically minding her own business;  just chatting at dinner (I mean, okay, she broke a glass, but, semantics...) and then Countess JudgyPants gets up in her face for, like, no apparent reason.  what did she think was going to happen?  "why, yes, Luann, I am a bit too tipsy right now.  thanks so much for noticing, and let me just order a diet Coke and get myself straight."

I was friends with a "Bethenny" for one hot minute.  "I!  AM!  CRYING!  why are you talking about your kid and not petting me?" it was exhausting. 

Sucks, b/c I used to like  B...probs until the birthday party "I WANT ATTENTION!  WHY ARE YOU HAVING A PARTY FOR ME?  EVERYONE SHOULD BE VERY CONCERNED THAT I'M IN THE BATHROOM!  CRYING!"

and the "SHOPPING!  I'M SO RICH!!! SO MISERABLE BUT STILL?  RICHER THAN ALL OF YOU, I COULD BUY AND SELL YOU ALL!!!"

she doesn't want friends, she wants minions.  no one gets to have their own life, thoughts, or opinions.

I love the Tinz "MUGSHOT?  ME TOO, REMEMBER???"

I wish that there had been two separate cameras for the arguments...I missed parts of each ones.

Sonja switches up her loyalty with the wind, but she's still my spirit animal.

Edited July 26, 2018 by teapot
WHO THE FUCK IS EVE???????????

[Lady of nod]

2 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

You are not.

lol  Yeah, Ramona was busy rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

priceless!

[Persnickety1]

Well, that episode packed a few wallops.

On an entirely frivolous basis, wow....I thought Carole's white outfit at the dinner was AMAZING.  She looked probably the best I've ever seen her in that outfit and it just seemed to really fit the occasion and the location.  Her shopping outfit was cute, too, but that white outfit was sublime on her.  It made up for that abomination she wore to walk thru the cobblestone streets of town in last week's episode.

And Sonja looked really great in that pink outfit.  Staying off the sauce has really worked well for her since she seems to be looking better with each episode.

I loved Tinsley's dress for the outing to go shopping, too.

And about that dinner....

Clearly Ramona had the best seat in the house, right between the battles going on at either end of the table.  Why is it I believe she was so engrossed with her makeup that she really did manage to miss most of the fuckery going on literally all around her?  

And didn't I hear Ramona say at one point that she was leaving before Dorinda started in on her, too, and she didn't want to fight with her...Yet Ramona returns to the table (to be started on by Dorinda) just minutes later?  I thought at some point Dorinda had said she was leaving, too, with her "Fuck her" comment as she drunkenly sashayed out a door?

I was thinking maybe Ramona and Dorinda had both tried to leave, but production sent them back into the fracas.  Anybody remember when Vicki of OC tried to flounce from the 80's Bingo game yet had to return just minutes later because apparently production had engaged in shenanigans and her limo was gone?  This episode reminded me of that debacle.  

One look at Dorinda's eyes during that dinner was enough to show LuAnn was indeed correct.  Dorinda was not only heading for the dark side, the expression on her face looked like she'd already arrived at that destination.  I can't believe people, in this case specifically Dorinda, can see themselves on film behaving so very, very badly, embarrassing themselves, going way below the belt to strike others in their most sensitive areas, express remorse and beg forgiveness...and then do the same goddamned thing at the very next gathering.  What's that expression about stupidity being doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same results?  

As for Carole and Bethenny, whatever bond they shared has been shredded.  I doubt if one would even toss a lifebuoy to the other if one fell overboard in the next episode.  I would say time for them both to suck it up and move on, but apparently Carole is literally moving on since she won't be returning.  I guess whatever we see between them at the reunion will be the end of the road (except for those who follow them on social media, perhaps).  

[AnnA]

3 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

 

Carole is the still-insecure teenage girl who was not classically pretty growing up and is making other women pay for it. She's a power-fucker and uses people to feed her sense of entitlement and competition with other women. The tacky Instrgram commercials tell the real story - scrambling for money, no career any longer, trying to stay relevant. She misjudged her behaviors, can't stand the blowback, and is getting off of TV.

 

If you can't take the heat...............get out of the kitchen!

[snarts]

1 hour ago, Mozelle said:

Well, given that LuAnn is back in rehab (whether because she actually had some sort of episode that put her back in there or because she wanted to avoid questions at the reunion taping about her kids and ex-husband suing her) a mere six months after leaving, it seems to me that she really doesn't have any special insight about Dorinda's drinking that would grant her the ability to comment. 

We've seen that Dorinda & Luann are real friends, not just co-workers. As a friend, Luann should point out when her friend is starting to get messy, sspecially considering they're being filmed.

I have a friend of many years who tends to get really drunk really fast. She has tells that I notice just before she becomes belligerent. So I tell her. Sometimes she thanks me and other times she gets pissed off. Should I not try to stop her from getting sloppy drunk jusr because I was sloppy drunk once or twice in my life? No, as a friend, you want to protect your friends from harm. Luann was not being judgy, she was trying to stop Dorinda from getting messy and nothing she said warranted that reaction.

[thesupremediva1]

6 hours ago, film noire said:

I used to think this was a phase, but it isn't; it's who she's become. This selfish, hypocritical, brutally controlling and forever hostile bully is someone Bethenny would have once mocked for being so self absorbed, and so lacking in any empathy. She has become the thing she used to hate, and in the process, has also become profoundly unlikeable, imo. And this shit tonight? It's not Carole,  Bethenny; it's you. You start shit to vent the insecurity and rage, and in the process, turn every woman around you into the worst of Bernadette and the worst of yourself.

The only thing I have left to say to B: "Everyone's seeing it, and it's you. So stop. The f(*&#^*.  B#&&$@!*%."

I have panic attacks. They can hit anywhere, for any reason, at any time. She gives panic attacks a bad name. If she was actually having a panic attack, she'd have been laid up for the rest of the day recuperating. Never in the history of panic attacks has anyone been cured by laying on ice in a freezer. You don't "shop away" a panic attack. This upsets me because those of us who do go on a nice vacation and experience a panic attack don't want to bring our friends down or create drama. We just have overactive amygdalas that interpret everything as a threat. And the added social stress of "killing the mood" makes it worse and has made me rethink many a group trip in advance. If it's not a sympathetic group, I'd rather stay home than risk isolation on top of anxiety and panic.

However, I also haven't verbally berated and eviscerated most of my friends. Dorinda is correct: You get what you give. I wouldn't go around calling someone a drunk, or telling multiple people that they're gavon animals who I'll never speak to again, and then expect those people to sit with and comfort me. Life doesn't work that way. 

Carole has never been a favorite of mine, but we are in the same reality. I'm at a loss as to how anyone could defend Bethenny here. It's been her from the start. I don't think she sees it, but it doesn't make it any less true. She's obsessing about texts. Why don't you think hard about the nasty words you throw at Carole every chance you get in a group setting?? Nary a dinner has gone by without Bethenny going at Carole umprompted. Exactly as Ramona said, Bethenny doesn't seem to want to fix it - she in fact exacerbates the rift every chance she gets. Carole doesn't crack, so it's B who ends up crying! That's the definition of a mind-fuck. Brandi Glanville pulled this stuff on RHoBH for years. She eventually got to where B is at now - not one ally left after tons of awful behavior. B might not lose her apple like Brandi did, but she deserves the isolation she's receiving. This is what it's like not to be treated like a special snowflake, B. Are you strong enough to handle it? I don't think so. 

The Lu and Dorinda stuff was ugly. Lu shouldn't be telling people anything about drinking, but WOW the truth came out. Dorinda has likely been bottling it for a few years since the Tom debacle started and it exploded at the dinner.

Edited July 26, 2018 by thesupremediva1

[Thumper]

6 hours ago, Sharonana said:

I feel like I am watching a completely different show than some. WTH am I missing that many describe Carole as being smug, mean girl jealous? Why would she be jealous of Bethenny? Because she's not a screaming, hysterical shrew? Ok. What does Bethenny mean when she describes Carole as too cool? Aloof? Distant? I would be too. Bethenny is exhausting. Her behavior is dreadful. She sucks the life out of a room and anyone around her. Carole tried to have an adult conversation with Bethenny, but she steamrolls right over her. She starts screaming about court and lawyers. So exasperating!!! I, for one, am sad that Carole is leaving. I don't think it has anything to do with Adam and everything to do with Bethenny. And why isn't it plausible to think that she wants to return to being a writer/producer? We saw one little snippet about her missing a deadline. Does that define her entire work ethic? I don't think so but as always, YMMV.

I agree with you!   I saw no smugness.  I am sad she is leaving.  Her life is different from the others and I think that adds to the collage of this show.

I also heard Carole say she bought earrings for everyone.

Beth is VERY exhausting.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Thumper

[UsernameFatigue]

4 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

 

Carole is the still-insecure teenage girl who was not classically pretty growing up and is making other women pay for it. She's a power-fucker and uses people to feed her sense of entitlement and competition with other women. The tacky Instrgram commercials tell the real story - scrambling for money, no career any longer, trying to stay relevant. She misjudged her behaviors, can't stand the blowback, and is getting off of TV.

 

I am not on Instagram - can you elaborate on the commercials? Who is she shilling for? I did see one for donuts (I think it was). I would think that Carole more than  anyone will miss the Bravo paycheck, so I guess this is how she is trying to replace that income? 

[b2H]

1 hour ago, Mozelle said:

Well, given that LuAnn is back in rehab (whether because she actually had some sort of episode that put her back in there or because she wanted to avoid questions at the reunion taping about her kids and ex-husband suing her) a mere six months after leaving, it seems to me that she really doesn't have any special insight about Dorinda's drinking that would grant her the ability to comment. 

Recovery can often take more than one stint in rehab.  Stopping an addiction is literally life-changing and one is never 'cured'.  I can give her a pass.  It sounds to me like, while she may not be drinking, she could still be suffering from the other addictive personality behaviors (like the alleged theft still under litigation).  She made a good start, but she is by no means out of the woods.

ETA: A old friend of mine who has been sober 40 years calls some of this behavior being a 'dry drunk'.

Edited July 26, 2018 by b2H

[Double A]

4 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

This show fascinates me because I think we are seeing these society women beginning the long slow slide down.

Luann developed her elegant facade after years of being on Italian TV, modeling and moving in minor aristocratic circles as the countess. But under that facade is an entitled shark who, facing a possibly penniless future, makes a determined beeline for the supposedly wealthy Tom, and when that fails, steals from her children. She's run back to rehab to try to escape the repercussions. (Who's paying for rehab?)

Tinsley is desperate for Scott's money and he has latched on to her for publicity for his business. I think Tinsley and her mother are desperately chasing faded debutante dreams. Not a good look.

Dorinda has become the mean blowsy drunk who is unraveling before our eyes.

Carole is the still-insecure teenage girl who was not classically pretty growing up and is making other women pay for it. She's a power-fucker and uses people to feed her sense of entitlement and competition with other women. The tacky Instrgram commercials tell the real story - scrambling for money, no career any longer, trying to stay relevant. She misjudged her behaviors, can't stand the blowback, and is getting off of TV.

Unless Sonja finds a man to support her, her future is not bright.

Bethenny is a miserable mess and I pity her child. Her money allows her to escape the consequences of a lot of her actions.

The survivor? Ramona, the canny narcissist/sociopath who will somehow survive, probably because of a divorce settlement that her financial team is carefully managing. She'll survive because she doesn't give a rat's ass about other people. Her risk is a clever, seductive Lothario appealing to her vanity and convincing her to give him her money.

All this. There should be a 3 year term on these shows and then you have to cycle off. That rule could have saved most of these HW franchises. Now we watch their apocalyptic falls from grace with - you are right - the insufferable Ramona and likely Vicki G. surviving like cockroaches in the rubble.

[janie2002]

2 minutes ago, b2H said:

Recovery can often take more than one stint in rehab.  Stopping an addiction is literally life-changing and one is never 'cured'.  I can give her a pass.  It sounds to me like, while she may not be drinking, she could still be suffering from the other addictive personality behaviors (like the alleged theft still under litigation).  She made a good start, but she is by no means out of the woods.

I'm curious if Lu is an alcoholic. It seems to have gone from maybe she is drinking too much to REHAB? Maybe I'm naive but I guess it just seems like she wasnt an alcoholic, but def a party girl.

I thought she used rehab excuse as a way to look better for the court, but it seems she really is trying to stop drinking. 

[sasha206]

5 hours ago, Sharonana said:

I feel like I am watching a completely different show than some. WTH am I missing that many describe Carole as being smug, mean girl jealous? Why would she be jealous of Bethenny? Because she's not a screaming, hysterical shrew? Ok. What does Bethenny mean when she describes Carole as too cool? Aloof? Distant? I would be too. Bethenny is exhausting. Her behavior is dreadful. She sucks the life out of a room and anyone around her. Carole tried to have an adult conversation with Bethenny, but she steamrolls right over her. She starts screaming about court and lawyers. So exasperating!!! I, for one, am sad that Carole is leaving. I don't think it has anything to do with Adam and everything to do with Bethenny. And why isn't it plausible to think that she wants to return to being a writer/producer? We saw one little snippet about her missing a deadline. Does that define her entire work ethic? I don't think so but as always, YMMV.

I totally agree.

I haven't always loved Carole, but unlike Beth, she is even keeled and seems like she'd be fun to be around.  Beth is a neurotic, mean-spirited mess 95% of the time on this show.  And Carole has attempted to get to the bottom of whatever their drama is and never gets a really direct answer from the Zero Fucks, always speak my mind Bethenny.  Instead, it's a circular argument with Bethenny constantly putting Carole down for being "too cool," or "too into her Instagram."  I guffawed that day when she said Carole had changed given that Bethenny is the selfie, bikini photo self-promoting queen.  I really admire that Carole has stood up to the bully that is Beth.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, laprin said:

For all of you that have adamantly disliked Dorinda, I get it now.  If Dorinda's family is not sitting down with her and talking about rehab after this episode, they are at best enablers and at worst don't care about her.  She is a very mean drunk, which would be less of an issue if she was not drunk so often.   

Same : (  I'm sad... I used to love her, when she first joined the show.

[b2H]

2 minutes ago, janie2002 said:

I'm curious if Lu is an alcoholic. It seems to have gone from maybe she is drinking too much to REHAB? Maybe I'm naive but I guess it just seems like she wasnt an alcoholic, but def a party girl.

I thought she used rehab excuse as a way to look better for the court, but it seems she really is trying to stop drinking. 

I don't think the question is whether she is or she isn't an alcoholic.  She is.  The event in Florida last December was an extreme example, but yeah, she is.

[UsernameFatigue]

7 minutes ago, chewycandy said:

The other cast members have been discussed just as much as Carole. 

And no one is discussed more than Bethenny. Even in their individual threads, Bethenny's has more than twice as many pages as the closest Howives, which would be Carole and Lu. Heck, even Beth's divorce has its own thread which has garnered 77 pages. Lol. You have to have a thick skin to be a Beth fan. But we all have our favourites, and wives we like one year and not another. I was a Carole fan up until this year and do find that she has changed. I won't miss her. 

[AnnA]

2 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

Can’t stand that Carole said Lu shouldn’t say anything about anyone else’s drinking because she just got out of rehab!! Why the hell not??? If anyone can see what an out-of-control drunk is, it’s someone who came out the other side! So because Lu was in rehab, she has no right to comment on an obvious problem in front of her? 

And while I believe Bethenny played a huge part in their breakup, Carole is no angel. I saw gaslighting. I saw her fishing after bribing Sonja, and not listening to Sonja’s explanation of Bethenny’s side. I saw Carole very cooly hug Bethenny after Bethenny broke down and said she loved her. How can that not move you if you used to have a close relationship with this person? At least be sad with them that a dear friendship is over....I don’t know..such toxic people, of course it wouldn’t last.

Dorinda was disgusting last night. What a sad, ugly, sloppy mess. Her eyes full of misplaced anger alternating with regret, her lipstick smears, the drool. I would be horrified if that was my mother in tv. I AM horrified. She lost me. 

Carole hates LuAnn

I was a little surprised that Carol admitted she can't stand to be around someone who is crying. 

Who does that?   What a cold bitch she is!

[VedaPierce]

6 hours ago, AnnA said:

Carole hates LuAnn

I was a little surprised that Carol admitted she can't stand to be around someone who is crying. 

Who does that?   What a cold bitch she is!

Especially a friend she was close enough with to go on several vacations! That was a pretty mean thing to say. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by VedaPierce

[UsernameFatigue]

7 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

Especially a friend she was close enough to go on several vacations with! That was a pretty mean thing to say. 

Not to mention that Beth is the same person she has always been. She is a crier, and would have been during the time that she was going through her divorce and getting the restraining order against Jason for stalking her. Carole was not only around for all of that, but Beth's BFF. But I guess for the free vacations, she could put up with Beth's crying then. 

[Sun-Bun]

27 minutes ago, b2H said:

I'm curious if Lu is an alcoholic. It seems to have gone from maybe she is drinking too much to REHAB? Maybe I'm naive but I guess it just seems like she wasnt an alcoholic, but def a party girl.

I thought she used rehab excuse as a way to look better for the court, but it seems she really is trying to stop drinking. 

I myself wouldn’t refer to Luanne as an alcoholic. 

To me, an alcoholic wakes up wanting to drink and can barely function without a drink at the ready. They’ll gladly drink alone or socially, it doesn’t matter: they just need that regular booze fix. I’ve never ever gotten that vibe from Lu.

She’s more of an alcohol abuser: she likes to party a little too hard a little too often. Party girls are often of that same persuasion: once the party is on, they keep going until they fall into a giggly puddle..or bush.

Now Dorinda? I fully believe she’s an alcoholic. We’ve seen enough to gather that she’s the type who drinks daily, alone or with folks. She’s a drunk, and an angry messy one at that. 

If anyone needs rehab, it’s Dorinda. She’s about one public tirade away from getting a mugshot.

Speaking of mugshots, how quickly we forget that Sonja has one too for drunk driving!!

Edited July 26, 2018 by Sun-Bun

[teapot]

3 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Not to mention that Beth is the same person she has always been. She is a crier, and would have been during the time that she was going through her divorce and getting the restraining order against Jason for stalking her. Carole was not only around for all of that, but Beth's BFF. But I guess for the free vacations, she could put up with Beth's crying then. 

remember that?  before they were friends?  Carole says, "Bethenny has two speeds...wound up tighter than a drum, or bawling her eyes out."

[Mozelle]

Perhaps because it's awkward for Carole to be around someone who's crying? When Bethenny had that moment at the furniture store a few seasons back, you could see Carole not know what to do. She just looked around and found some tissues and tried to lighten things a bit. The performance of it all is most important, I suppose. 

[Rap541]

Quote

I think it kind of came out of nowhere.  Dorinda was basically minding her own business;  just chatting at dinner (I mean, okay, she broke a glass, but, semantics...) and then Countess JudgyPants gets up in her face for, like, no apparent reason.  what did she think was going to happen?  "why, yes, Luann, I am a bit too tipsy right now.  thanks so much for noticing, and let me just order a diet Coke and get myself straight."

And that Luann has a history of being Countess JudgeyPants is why any correction from her on how someone's drinking too much can set someone off. Dorinda is a drunk, a mean drunk, and I totally get why Luann chiding her for drinking too much would set her off... even though I think Dorinda is one blackout drunk episode away from ended up arrested. But from Dorinda's perspective, who the fuck is Luann to judge when Luann is the one who got arrested and who can't control her drinking and who can't have alcohol and needs a whole lot of coddling. I'm not saying it's right to have this attitude, but having the show drunk who's fresh out of rehab judge me publically? I can see why this was a trigger. 

Personally, I think Dorinda needs to consider having a lengthy vacation in a spa like atmosphere where the waitstaff leads her into discussions about using something other than alcohol to mask her grief. Because she's got a drinking problem.

Quote

Am I the only one who actually likes Tinsley?

Not the only one. I like having someone who is relatively problem free and who has silly but funny issues.

After watching this episode, I see why Carole is leaving. She's made the decision to cut ties with Bethenny - thats the coldness, that's how Carole leaves a situation, and it's now an unpleasant job where she doesn't have any friends. 

[Booger666]

Carole has been Beth’s BFF as she has cried for years and years about her divorce.  Beth is scorch the earth angry about her breakup.  Carol is going through her own breakup now and it is very different than Beth’s.  Carole doesn’t seem to be angry, she seems more hurt and sad.  When Beth was done with Jason she was immediately over him.  Carole and Adam have had a really, really slow breakup.  I wonder if the differences in how they have handled their emotions and breakups is part of the reason they can’t seem to find common ground.  Beth probably has felt Carole pulling away and doesn’t get that it isn’t about her because she thinks everything is about her.  Carole doesn’t like the things Beth has said about Adam and may be taking it personally instead of attributing it to Beth’s natural personality of being angry and nasty about men during a breakup.  Just speculation as neither of them seems to be owning up to what is really going on between them as the friendship dissolves.

[b2H]

13 minutes ago, Sun-Bun said:

I myself wouldn’t refer to Luanne as an alcoholic. 

To me, an alcoholic wakes up wanting to drink and can barely function without a drink at the ready. They’ll gladly drink alone or socially, it doesn’t matter: they just need that regular booze fix. I’ve never ever gotten that vibe from Lu.

Once upon a time (and I recognize this is OT, but bear with me) I was managing the health benefits for a small company - this was back in the 80s.  One of our folks had this kind of drinking problem - he was entirely functional during the day, but at night he would go home and drink beer.  An entire case.  Every night.  Yet he was entirely functional during the work day.  He was in treatment for alcoholism, and was working toward trying to quit,

In this vein, yes, Lu is an alcoholic.  The example you cite - drink at the ready - is only one type of alcoholic.

[ancslove]

Bethenny overreacts, but I think Carole was a little disingenuous about “thinking that everything is fine after they hugged it out”.  It hasn’t been fine on Carole’s end, and she has repeatedly said as much in her THs and to the other women.  Bethenny and everyone else can clearly see it’s not fine, but she just won’t say it to Bethenny’s face. She loses her nerve and backs down again and again, and meantime nothing has gotten better.  

Bethenny was a catastrophe for most of this episode, but I thought she was impressive at the end with Dorinda.  She was level-headed, not quite as blunt as she could have been, and controlled and compassionate.  She really is best in a crisis that isn’t personally about her.

[Mozelle]

12 minutes ago, Booger666 said:

Carole has been Beth’s BFF as she has cried for years and years about her divorce.  Beth is scorch the earth angry about her breakup.  Carol is going through her own breakup now and it is very different than Beth’s.  Carole doesn’t seem to be angry, she seems more hurt and sad.  When Beth was done with Jason she was immediately over him.  Carole and Adam have had a really, really slow breakup.  I wonder if the differences in how they have handled their emotions and breakups is part of the reason they can’t seem to find common ground.  Beth probably has felt Carole pulling away and doesn’t get that it isn’t about her because she thinks everything is about her.  Carole doesn’t like the things Beth has said about Adam and may be taking it personally instead of attributing it to Beth’s natural personality of being angry and nasty about men during a breakup.  Just speculation as neither of them seems to be owning up to what is really going on between them as the friendship dissolves.

I thought about this last night. I think you may be right.

When Bethenny and Jason were done, Bethenny was able to enumerate all of the things that she didn't like about her ex. She had no qualms about expressing her anger over the marriage ending and over Jason in general. I think she wrongfully assumed that Carole is the type to dish negatively about an ex just after a break up, and it was a miscalculation on Bethenny's part. 

[Gem 10]

4 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

  What did Dorinda call Luanne at the table.

 

I think she called her Darling.