S01.E08: You Mean All This Time We Could Have Been Friends?

[Drogo]

Quote

In the season finale, Joan accepts a leading role on a new film despite her deteriorating health. Later: Faced with a new rival, Bette reflects on her misplaced feud with Joan.

 

 

[Nordly Beaumont]

I wonder if they could have picked a worse font for giving the "what happened next" info at the end.  I couldn't read most of it.

The pics at the end just showed how they didn't even try to get Bette's hair and makeup right on Susan Sarandon.

[Growsonwalls]

Wow. That was an incredibly emotional episode. I felt horrible for Joan. Jessica Lange did an outstanding job showing Joan's loneliness. I also like that the show left it up to the viewers to decide on "Mommie Dearest." People are shades of gray. I think that this series has overall done a wonderful job showing the shades of gray in everyone. Yes, even Jack Warner or Hedda Hopper. Bravo to all of them. The final dream sequence was wonderful.

I think Bette's quote about Joan was an urban legend. The show is taking some heat on twitter about it. A reporter said Bette said it. I don't think so. Bette in later interviews never said much about Crawford besides the fact that she was very professional.

[Primetimer]

The only thing missing from this finale -- which takes us through the final decade of Joan Crawford's life -- is a cool, refreshing Pepsi-Cola.

View the full article

[enoughcats]

About as satisfying as an egg white omlette. 

[smiley13]

What an emotional episode.    This series has made me very sympathetic to Joan.  The dream sequence was well done.

[HoboClayton]

I really enjoyed this series, and found myself thinking much differently about both actresses. I went in thinking this was going to be campy fun, which it was. I was not expecting it to make me as emotional as it did. The last 2 episodes left me so sad for both of them, but, especially Joan. I thought Susan and Jessica did fine in the roles. The standout acting wise was Stanley Tucci. He is just fantastic. Dominic Burgess was also great as Victor. And Jackie Hoffman blew it out of the water as Mamacita.  Between Susan and Jessica, I will have to put Jessica slightly above Susan, acting wise. I really felt my heart ache for her. Such a sad ending, and terrifying to think of some day being in the same situation.

ETA: The Roast of Bette is available on You Tube. I have seen it before, but, will give it another watch and pay more attention to her facial expressions.

Edited April 24, 2017 by HoboClayton

[annzeepark914]

There were some excellent scenes (e.g., the dream) but overall, I'm glad it's over.  I enjoyed the first few episodes (when they were filming WHTBJ) but after that, the drinking, smoking and pathetic nastiness (mostly via Crawford) really bothered me.  Interesting (& very sad) that they both had mothers who didn't really like them.

[ThatsDarling]

3 hours ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

The pics at the end just showed how they didn't even try to get Bette's hair and makeup right on Susan Sarandon.

Sarandon's look and performance struck me as Bette Davis-lite. She had some great moments (I especially loved her scene with Margot tonight), but I felt like she was unable or unwilling to fully explore this woman's rougher edges and go-for-broke attitude. 

Lange was at her best tonight. I think being stripped of the Crawford drag and no longer trying to look 10 years younger really freed up her performance. Her scene with her daughter was wonderful. 

I smiled when Bette said The Turning Point was her favorite film of the year, seeing as it stars none other than her old rival, Anne Bancroft. 

[Milburn Stone]

IMO Jessica Lange overcame the problem that she never really did look anything like Joan Crawford. She also overcame the problem that the figure she was playing probably wasn't anything like Joan Crawford! In the end it was a good performance that got to the heart of the character as written, even though "any resemblance to actual personages living or dead is entirely coincidental."

[tawny411]

I thought it was a very emotional episode. I enjoyed the performances of both JL and SS. I wonder how much the production of Trog really was like they showed. I just thought how far Joan had fallen. How embarrassing. I felt the same about Bette during that roast, and complaining about none of her TV pilots being picked up. I loved seeing Hedda and Jack again. Stanley Tucci deserves to clean up all the acting awards. 

 

I wish there was another show on that portrayed old Hollywood. I'm going to miss Feud on Sunday nights.

Edited April 24, 2017 by tawny411

[voiceover]

This afternoon I found my copy of Bette's 1987 This 'n That.  Because: of course it would show up today.

There's a whole chapter on ...Baby Jane, and the first word of the first line is "Feud": " 'Feud' is a Hollywood word, a wildly overused Hollywood word."  Then she goes on to deny that there was one between the two of them.

I did love tonight's scene with Joan & her daughter.  No victim there.  A gutsy, gracious fighter, and more of what I'd hoped to see throughout.

In the end, I'm glad this series was made.  Wish I'd stopped watching before the Oscar ep, though.  The emphasis on the pathetic was a real disappointment, and a sour note to end what might have been an inspiring tale of guts & grit.  

Obviously not the story Murphy wanted to tell.

[Gemma Violet]

I enjoyed the series.  I did feel sorry for both of them at the end.  So tragic that their lives were totally wrapped up in their careers (and for Joan, her looks as well) and when it all went away, they were lost in limbo.  

I remember Bette talking on a talk show about her assistant who, I think, worked for her for seven or eight years and got her through the cancer and strokes.  It seemed as if she considered her sort of like a daughter. Glad she had that at the end since her own daughter and she didn't have a relationship in the end.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Gemma Violet

[AgentRXS]

Once again, this became the Jessica Lange Emmy Bait hour. Disappointed that Bette again was a guest star in her own feud.  I also didn't really appreciate the epilogue written about Bette at the end. After blathering on about how Joan's work is being restudied and she is now considered a great actress as well as a star.....all they can think to mention for Bette is her alleged 100-cigarette-a day nicotine addiction? What BS.

Bette was such a tough broad that it took 4 strokes and 2 bouts with cancer to take her down.....woman had the will to live like no one's business.

Last week, I made reference to the song "Bette Davis Eyes". I found a excellent fan video that I feel would make a nice send-off to this show. In the end, I think Sarandon did the best she could with the material and I'm glad she brought Bette Davis to life in this series. Like I said before, both Bette and Joan deserved better then what they got.

[bmoore4026]

Well, who else had a lump in their throat almost the entire episode?

[mamadrama]

Husband: So, did it have a happy ending?

I had no idea how to answer that. I teared up at almost every scene. 

Now I feel guilty for having ever read or watched "Mommie Dearest."

ETA: I read BD's book a long time ago and I never really saw anything terrible about Bette's relationship with her-nothing to warrant her writing a "tell all" about her. To me, BD always came across looking worse than her mother. 

[AuntiePam]

16 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Well, who else had a lump in their throat almost the entire episode?

[raises hand] I teared up a couple of times.

Why did Joan take offense at the "survivor" comment from the fan at the book signing?  Was it a knee-jerk reaction to the Baby Jane photo?  Or did she see herself as still relevant -- which is different from just surviving?  I thought she'd take it as a compliment.  Nope.

I'll miss this show.  I watched Hail, Caesar! today -- another look at old Hollywood, and I think I appreciated it more because of what I was shown in Feud. 

[methodwriter85]

I had a really hard time with the notion that Joan Crawford would have ever pulled a stunt like walking out on a fan event. I can't see that happening. She had many flaws but her fans were her life, especially at the end.

I actually thought Joan looked great with the long grey hair and no make-up, even if she was sliding towards death. That was a great scene at the end. I think we've all had dreams or conversations in our head where we imagine getting closure.

I definitely teared up at Cathy and Joan's talk. Mommie Dearest or not, the twins's bond with her seemed very real and that's the kind of thing Joan needed at the end of her life.

Edited April 24, 2017 by methodwriter85

[UsernameFatigue]

This episode for me put Jessica Lange ahead of Nicole Kidman as Emmy winner for actress in a limited series. And I loved NK in Big Little Lies. Lange gave me chills, several times. I never totally bought Susan Sarandon as Bette Davis, and have wondered all along why more wasn't done to also make her look more like BD. 

I thought it was very interesting that BD (I assume it was true) made a snide remark about Katharine Hepburn never having children, but it seems in the end the only child she had a relationship with was the daughter who might not even know who she was? They never did mention much about her son. OTOH Joan appeared to have a close relationship with her younger daughters. 

In any case I love this series, and the final episode was my favourite. Jessica Lange's performance in the dream scene was brilliant, right down to Mamacita coming to bring her back to bed. 

[voiceover]

It's been a couple of hours, and I'm still feeling pissy.

The second half of this series has all been focused on the wretched.  It's as if Murphy decided to retell "Ozymandias" via Old Hollywood, with an emphasis on the "...and despair!" part of the poem.

Conveniently choosing to leave out that Joan filmed an ep of Night Gallery (directed by some newbie named Spielberg) that is a television classic.  And Bette made Whales of August with Lillian Gish & Vincent Price, a little indie that got decent reviews.  So there were triumphs there at the end!  

But instead we got Joan trying on Trog's mask, and Bette remembered for her cigarettes.

I can't be grateful for that.

[newyawk]

Odd little observation, but I find it hard to believe that Joan would have had gingivitis (the bleeding gums when she brushed her teeth.) She seemed too type A to not be a compulsive flosser.

 

NM, posted that as I started watching the episode. I see they explained that she had previous extractions that became infected.

Edited April 24, 2017 by newyawk

[Snookums]

You know, Joan Crawford was in a little William Castle throwaway called I Saw What You Did, in 1965. Castle was the king of gimmicks and trashy quickies--he made movies like The Tingler and wired theater seats to shock patrons, he flew plastic skeletons on wires around the movie houses during House On Haunted Hill, stuff like that. Getting Joan was obviously the gimmick for this movie.

But she's SO GOOD. The film is a Psycho ripoff about two teenage girls making prank phone calls and they accidentally call John Ireland's character right before he stabs his wife. One thing leads to another and they decide to go see what he looks like (they don't know about the stabbing) and drive out to his house.

Joan plays John's next door neighbor/secret lover Amy, and she puts together what happened with the dead wife, but mistakenly thinks John is having an affair with the teen prank caller (she listens in on the call.) So when the teenager comes poking around she has this AMAZEBALLS scene where she's ranting and raving at her, yelling about how she's a little tramp and he's twice her age and to get out of here if she knows what's good for her.

And then, right when she's got the poor kid cowering in the car, she grabs the door to slam it and...pauses. Her face softens. "Look, honey," she says, sincerely, "You're too young." Then she SLAMS THAT DOOR and bellows "get outta here!" with a rage that tries to cover up that beating heart, and fails.

Every scene she's in, she's so great.

[newyawk]

Yeah, I saw that movie, it was all right.

Joan's grandson really LIKED how Joan was depicted in Feud and thinks it was pretty close to how she was (I guess he overlooked the delusional, arrogant and phony aspects of the "Joan" character's personality, or, she really was like that.)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4375684/Grandson-actress-Joan-Crawford-speaks-TV-s-Feud.html

Edited April 24, 2017 by newyawk

[WhosThatGirl]

This show was good. I didn't know much about JC or BD-I'm young- but I do have a love for WHTBJ and know they didn't like each other, but this series for sure did point out that it was more the powers behind the scenes that wanted them feuding. And the worst part is, it's still happening today. And yes it does seem only to be pitting women against other women and not really men.

That final scene where both Bette and Joan wished for them to become friends once the movie was finished was sad and heartbreaking to me. And the scenes at the oscars when Joan got 2 seconds and when Bette refused to be in the documentary for one liners.

I just feel really sad about the whole thing as a whole. I'm not sure if that was the goal.

[GaT]

I was a bit disappointed with this episode, it seemed disconnected from the rest of the series IMO.

[dbklmt]

Here's the actual Bette Davis roast that HoboClayton mentioned was on You Tube.  It's really good.  Loved Nipsy Russell and who knew that Vincent Price could be so funny.

[MonicaM]

3 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Husband: So, did it have a happy ending?

I had no idea how to answer that. I teared up at almost every scene. 

Now I feel guilty for having ever read or watched "Mommie Dearest."

ETA: I read BD's book a long time ago and I never really saw anything terrible about Bette's relationship with her-nothing to warrant her writing a "tell all" about her. To me, BD always came across looking worse than her mother. 

All of this, particularly the last paragraph.  

[newyawk]

24 minutes ago, dbklmt said:

Here's the actual Bette Davis roast that HoboClayton mentioned was on You Tube.  It's really good.  Loved Nipsy Russell and who knew that Vincent Price could be so funny.

 

Bette looks like she was actually enjoying the roast and was having a much better time than she was shown to be having at Feud's version,

I also read My Mother's Keeper, way back when. While Bette might not have been physically abusive, and I can't remember if there were allegations of that, what I did take away from the book is that Bette was an alcoholic, which is never easy to live with, much less grow up around, and that she could be very controlling.  She could be difficult and I don't doubt that her issues could make it hard to be her child at times.  But nobody ever said she was a picnic to be around.  I think I would have liked her, still, much better than Joan.

Edited April 24, 2017 by newyawk

[dorcastrilling]

Maine here, I knew Gary. A family member was married to his best buddy at the time of his marriage to Bette. She held me when I was a baby. Obviously no memory of that, but did meet her briefly when I ran into them having lunch while she was filming Whales of August. Gary was a really nice guy sober but a nasty drunk. 

 

When BD's book came out he protested it in front of a locally owned bookstore. Defended Davis. Interesting to note though that their son Michael lived primarily here with Gary. BD was exiled here for a time as well. Met her a few summers at an annual family cookout. After my relatives divorce I didn't run into him again until I was an adult, he remembered me. Became a regular customer in a restaurant I worked at, always requesting me. He was devoted to Margot and visited her frequently and regularly. Michael was a cool guy to the younger kids at those long ago cookouts. Meant nothing to us then that he was Bette Davis' son.

[vb68]

That was indeed very sad. it was almost painful to watch. I do agree it seemed disconnected from the main part of the series. Probably because in their later years there really was no Feud.  They didn't see or talk to each other, except in dreams apparently, but they had to stretch the series out.

I was horrified and cringed at all the blood from Joan's mouth when she was brushing her teeth. I couldn't believe she let herself get in such a condition. It did warm my heart that Mamacita  came back. I really do think Joan was a person who needed someone to look after her. It was nice to see she was loved by Cathy  even though it still made me sad that she asked if the children considered her their real Grandmother.

I thought Jessica especially did fantastic work and disagree with others that it was just another aging beauty AHS character.  I this this episode showed that it went much deeper than that.

As for Bette, I still wish we had seen more of her famous wit. I remember a lot of her talkshow appearances in the 80s and the woman was an absolute hoot.  I also wish we had seen her reaction to Bette Davis Eyes. Supposedly she loved it.  It would had been fun seeing her dancing to it or receiving the gold record from Kim Carnes.    I kept wanting her to slap BD too. What an ungrateful child. But I'm biased there. The woman seems like a loon.  I think they should have noted at the end, like they did for Joan, just how disputed BD's book was by so many people, including her father.  I do agree that Sarandon worked with what she had, but it was disappointing that Bette became a secondary character.

Still not really sure why Joan Blondell was included at all except that Kathy Bates is a Ryan Murphy favorite.

All in all, I enjoyed it. It drifted some at the end, but I guess that's to be expected.  My biggest takeaway is that they were probably too alike and Hollywood too competitive for them to have an easy working relationship. And that's somewhat understandable and true outside of Hollywood, too.  I'm just not sure it was an actual "Feud."  At least from what was shown, Bette was a much less active participant. I don't know. Shades of grey and all that.  

Edited April 24, 2017 by vb68

[GreekGeek]

3 hours ago, voiceover said:

It's been a couple of hours, and I'm still feeling pissy.

The second half of this series has all been focused on the wretched.  It's as if Murphy decided to retell "Ozymandias" via Old Hollywood, with an emphasis on the "...and despair!" part of the poem.

Conveniently choosing to leave out that Joan filmed an ep of Night Gallery (directed by some newbie named Spielberg) that is a television classic.  And Bette made Whales of August with Lillian Gish & Vincent Price, a little indie that got decent reviews.  So there were triumphs there at the end!  

But instead we got Joan trying on Trog's mask, and Bette remembered for her cigarettes.

I can't be grateful for that.

I was prepared for the episode to be dreary, with even more of Joan being pathetic. The Trog scenes were fun in a dark way. I wanted to see more of Bette's later career for balance. It would have been good to see more of Fake Vincent Price, along with a Fake Lillian Gish and a Fake Ann Sothern during the filming of The Whales of August. Apparently Bette was awful to Lillian Gish.

I'm glad people liked the dream sequence. Some consider dream sequences lazy writing, but I generally enjoy them.

I'm not convinced the "She's dead, good" thing is real. I remember Moms Mabley making the same joke about her ex-husband.

[mochamajesty]

Is this a documentary or not? I guess older viewers are upset because they expect everything to be 100% accurate?

The only complaint that have is that this was the Joan show with Betty as an afterthought.  I felt so sorry for Joan at the end. During the dream sequence I thought she had actually died and the scene with her would end with Joan's body discovered by Mamacita.

[Spartan Girl]

Well, this episode finally did what I thought couldn't be done: they made me pity Joan Crawford, despite everything.

You know you are at your lowest when you dream about having a party with all the people you hated. Nostalgia indeed.

I can't believe Mamacita came back. But I guess it was nice she did. That puppy was so adorable.

So wait, Joan knew that Christina was writing MD before she died? That would explain why she cut her out of the will.

I don't know what is more ironic: Bette despising Faye Dunaway more than Joan, or that Joan wanted Faye to play her in a movie. If it's true, Joan must be spinning in her grave. I wonder what Bette thought of MD.

I liked how the end scene of the Oscars tied in with the documentary framing device. That infamous (possibly inaccurate) comment aside, I liked how Bette decide to bury the feud with Joan and respectfully declined to participate.

All in all, this was entertaining.

[Chaos Theory]

Were people expecting history to change?

i thought this was all very fascinating and told a compelling story about what Hollywood does to actresses.  

Of course this wasn't going to end well unless Murphy decided to change history.  Both women died sad and alone leaving behind angry children.    However the show did a good job of showing what drove both women and the finale was a sad reminder of what age does to us all.

[smiley13]

7 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Well, who else had a lump in their throat almost the entire episode?

Tears for me...  It was so sad watching what these two stars were reduced to.  

[txhorns79]

Quote

Conveniently choosing to leave out that Joan filmed an ep of Night Gallery (directed by some newbie named Spielberg) that is a television classic.  And Bette made Whales of August with Lillian Gish & Vincent Price, a little indie that got decent reviews.  So there were triumphs there at the end!  

I think the only reason that episode is even known is because of the connection to Spielberg.  I don't know that it's considered a classic, or that anyone would consider it a "triumph" in terms of Crawford's career.     

[Mindthinkr]

8 hours ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

I wonder if they could have picked a worse font for giving the "what happened next" info at the end.  I couldn't read most of it.

I am usually a fast reader and couldn't get all of it read before they moved to the next characters post script. 

 

6 hours ago, voiceover said:

Conveniently choosing to leave out that Joan filmed an ep of Night Gallery (directed by some newbie named Spielberg) that is a television classic.  And Bette made Whales of August with Lillian Gish & Vincent Price, a little indie that got decent reviews.  So there were triumphs there at the end!  

I also thought they fell short by not choosing to include this. Especially because they could have spoken to Mr Spielberg for his thoughts on how she appeared to be at this time (maybe they did tho and it was so unflattering that they made the decision to omit it rather than add to the dragging down of her) Her role in the Night Gallery was one of her best of her last appearances.

I was surprised that she had the six teeth removed to thin her face and make her cheekbones stand out more prominently. Seems Hollywood has been trying to 'improve' women's appearances with medical interventions for a long time (and we wonder now why all of the older actors/actresses have face lifts, fillers, Botox and dental work) 

[qtpye]

8 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

IMO Jessica Lange overcame the problem that she never really did look anything like Joan Crawford. She also overcame the problem that the figure she was playing probably wasn't anything like Joan Crawford! In the end it was a good performance that got to the heart of the character as written, even though "any resemblance to actual personages living or dead is entirely coincidental."

I agree it was a good performance by Lange and she finally sort of became Joan.  However, even thought I liked the episode, I thought it overly melodramatic.  Joan had friends and an active life before she became sick.  Also, why was she living in that dumpy little apartment?  I know she had decent money when she died and Christina was very unhappy about being cut out of the inheritance.  As for the ending scene, everyone of us come into this world alone (unless you are a conjoined twin) and everyone of us die alone.  If we live to a ripe old age we might have friends and family surrounding us, or maybe most of loved ones are also departed or too busy.  This is not a phenome unique to aging Hollywood actresses. 

I also agree with those who think Tucci and Mamacita were the real stand outs, acting wise.  I appreciate Jack Warner talking about anti Semitism... we should remember that many people had struggles (he still was a horrible person).

4 hours ago, newyawk said:

Bette looks like she was actually enjoying the roast and was having a much better time than she was shown to be having at Feud's version,

 

That was ridiculous.  The woman was at a roast.  If anyone could appreciate the sly and wicked humor, from people who had nothing but respect for her, it would be Bette Davis.  The lady was quick witted and was sharp enough to know her way around stinging barb.  By the way, usually at the end of the roast, the guest of honor gets up and takes down everyone that had presented, so they get their witty revenge.

I actually started feeling sorry for Sarandon.  I felt like she was just there to say, "Hey, look what a wonderful tragic heroine Joan Crawford was and I am just hear to support Lange's performance for an Emmy".  It really was really very one sided story telling.

[JohnnyGilda]

That was not the ending I wanted -- especially knowing that Bette went out with the Oscar-nominated Whales of August and the crappy but still wide-released Wicked Stepmother. Bette stayed a star, stayed an actress, and her public image pretty much survived the mud-slinging (or truth-telling) of BD's book. 

The dream sequence ran so long. It felt like Murphy servicing his muse, at the expense of the overall story. I know, surprising. There was so much more they could have covered that would have wrapped up Feud, as opposed to The Joan Crawford Story.

And how did they leave out the fact that Olivia's Joan also presented at the Academy Awards in '78 (Visual Effects to Star Wars)?

The respective scenes between Joan and Cathy, and Bette and Margot were moving, though. And Tucci and Hoffman only further cemented their status as series MVPs.

4 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

And the worst part is, it's still happening today. And yes it does seem only to be pitting women against other women and not really men.

Does the feud between Diesel and the Rock count? Entertainment media seem really happy to push that story, yet I don't know any moviegoer of any age who actually gives a damn.

[Mindthinkr]

36 minutes ago, qtpye said:

 

I actually started feeling sorry for Sarandon.  I felt like she was just there to say, "Hey, look what a wonderful tragic heroine Joan Crawford was and I am just hear to support Lange's performance for an Emmy".  It really was really very one sided story telling.

It mimics the real life Feud (perhaps reversed) but I expect Susan Sarandon to have more class than to have her nose out of joint (maybe she'll just smoke one and chill lol) about it. I think they bumbled re: her BD character in this last episode other than the scene where she went to have lunch with BD and we found out why her grandchildren were not present. Even make up and wardrobe dropped the ball. It also might be the reason that she seemed to put less work into the voicing and mannerisms during the finale. It was all about JC/JL. 

[Inquisitionist]

23 minutes ago, JohnnyGilda said:

And how did they leave out the fact that Olivia's Joan also presented at the Academy Awards in '78 (Visual Effects to Star Wars)?\

Do you mean that Olivia de Havilland did?  The only point of the AA sequence at the end, that I could see, was the fleeting image of Joan in the In Memoriam sequence, and Davis's comment on it.

[JohnnyGilda]

Olivia's Joan, as in Ms. Fontaine. Both de Havilland sisters were present at that ceremony, as was Bette. Probably the last time anyone can be sure all three ladies were in the same place, not that you'd know that from this show.

Edited April 24, 2017 by JohnnyGilda

[Mojoker]

In the movie "Mommie Dearest" it was made to seem that Christina Crawford's book came about after Joan Crawford's death, as a sort of tit-for-tat for Christina being cut out of the will. In tonight's episode of "Feud", of course, the book was depicted as coming out while Crawford was still very much alive. I'm not sure which fictionalized depiction of the truth is accurate here. Anyone?

[Blakeston]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

So wait, Joan knew that Christina was writing MD before she died? That would explain why she cut her out of the will.

I've never heard anything before watching this series that would suggest that Christina was taking Mommie Dearest to a publisher before Joan died. I think that was an invention of the show, to give Joan a way to react to it.

[Mojoker]

I wonder if they could have picked a worse font for giving the "what happened next" info at the end.  I couldn't read most of it.

The pics at the end just showed how they didn't even try to get Bette's hair and makeup right on Susan Sarandon.

Amen, about the end titles. I'm a pretty fast reader and I had to keep pausing those "what happened next" pieces to get through them.

[TimWil]

I absolutely loved it. One nitpick-why were the documentary maker, Aldrich's assistant, Victor Buono and Joan Blondell backstage at the Oscars? No reason for them to be there except Murphy wanted them there as a sort of tacked on curtain call.

[Inquisitionist]

18 minutes ago, TimWil said:

I absolutely loved it. One nitpick-why were the documentary maker, Aldrich's assistant, Victor Buono and Joan Blondell backstage at the Oscars? No reason for them to be there except Murphy wanted them there as a sort of tacked on curtain call.

Bingo.

[Florinaldo]

This episode did seem to belong in a different series than the previous ones, with very little overt conflict; I supose that the moral is that like so many other things, feuds end not with a bang but with a whimper.

That being said, it was a very affecting one in which the characters, especially JC, came through more as real people than before. Strange that one of the scenes that rang the most true was the dream sequence. Although there were several other good ones, like the visit by the grandchildren, the Trog shoot, the toast at the Oscars, etc. Others felt artificial and did not sem as plausible, like a confused JC wandering at night on the set and the first meeting of the two stars of WHTBJ: "I hope I will make a new friend" contradicts the very premise of the show and what was depicted in the first episode, i.e. the two women despising each other even before they started on this movie.

Freddie Francis was depicted as a bit of a twit in his first scene, which he definitely was not, but was redeemed later on.

The artist sketching BD was referred to as "Don", obviously Don Bachardy I would say, Christopher Isherwood's life partner  the sketch he did of the real BD can be found here. I think the show did a good imitation of his style for their version.

Too bad they glossed over some of the highlights of their respective careers, like Night Gallery or The Whales of August, and apparently exaggerated some of the negatives (like the roast). Those choices fit their overall thesis that these two women were in their sad decline, which would have been weakened by depicting positive events.

In the "what happened next" epilogue, they left out some people like Mamacita; Pauline being a fictional character, it's of course understandable in her case. I am not sure Aldrich is really considered as a major film auteur these days as they stated; he certainly was a highly competent one, whose later career continued to be rather very uneven, including the awful The Choirboys.

The "Roz" JC was talking to on the phone and later referred to as having cancer would be Rosalind Russell? She would be part of the circle of friends qtpye mentioned above.

7 hours ago, dbklmt said:

Loved Nipsy Russell and who knew that Vincent Price could be so funny.

VP was a funny man, with a very dry wit, which he rarely got to use in his movies and mostly in the last phase in his career. His humour comes across in his interviews.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Florinaldo

[txhorns79]

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I've never heard anything before watching this series that would suggest that Christina was taking Mommie Dearest to a publisher before Joan died. I think that was an invention of the show, to give Joan a way to react to it.

According to Vanity Fair, she knew her daughter was shopping around a book, and expected it would be bad.  Her last will was done in 1976, but it isn't clear what was changed.  Christina may have already been disinherited before her mother ever knew she wrote a book.

[Joimiaroxeu]

This was the episode where Susan really didn't seem to me old enough to be playing Bette. For that matter Kiernan didn't seem old enough to be playing BD either.

I had no idea Bette did a movie with Faye Dunaway. That's amazing!

The Young and the Restless? Wonder what that call out was all about?

Looks to me like they're going to be pushing Jessica for the Emmy. In the end Joan got the more sympathetic edit, especially with that dream sequence.

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I wonder if they could have picked a worse font for giving the "what happened next" info at the end.  I couldn't read most of it.

And they zoomed by too fast. I guess they figured people would just pause the video if they really wanted to read it.

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This episode for me put Jessica Lange ahead of Nicole Kidman as Emmy winner for actress in a limited series.

Not me. I think Lange had the advantage of plenty of reference material. But maybe the Emmy people will pull some shenanigans so they won't have to compete in the same category. BLL was adapted from a book while Feud wasn't.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Joimiaroxeu